RED weekly rental predictions

[Windjammer]

Imagine yourself about a year from now. RED ONE and all the associated RED gear are easily available. They’re real and spectacular. What might the typical weekly rental RED package cost? Not just the camera, but the cage, RED lens, viewfinder – all of the basic stuff one would need for a basic shoot. I’m not too experience with renting professional camera packages, so I’m curious to get a few ballpark predictions about the RED when it comes out.

Thanks in advance.

[rgdfilms]

It should be like 5% of the total cost if I'm not mistake

So assume between $1000-$1700 for a day rental - roughly

[Greg Lowry]

As we don't yet know what a system will cost, this is a good rule of thumb: daily rental is typically 1%-2% of total capital cost. "Rental weeks" are typically 3 paid days.

[vincent_price]

I bet 400$-500$/day, 2200$-2500$/week

[thisiswells]

Rental companies don't really make any money on camera bodies. I mean, they do, but not in proportion to the value of the camera. Instead, they make their money on renting accessories. That's their bread and butter. The camera itself tends to be a "loss leader" in order to encourage rental of all the little parts you need to make it functional.

As an example, the Aaton Minima costs about $17,000 to buy or $175/Day to rent. But, for a complete package (batteries, magazines, video tap, iris rods, matte box, follow focus, and a zoom lens) you'd be looking at about $550/Day.

So, if the RED rental is structured anything like traditional film camera rental, expect the camera body to be relatively cheap and the lenses, viewfinder, batteries, filters, matte box, follow focus, cage, rods, and storage to make up for the low price of the camera.

As an aside, rental prices for most items can be figured as 4% of the purchase price per day. Most rental houses offer a weekly rate of 3x the daily rate. Although, some smaller houses (Lone Wolf HD, for example) offer a weekly rate of 1.5x the daily rate. But, their HVX200's are almost always rented out because of the extremely low price.

[CVB]

It seems to me that production companies rent equipment so that they always have the latest technology and don't have to worry about having assets that sit around doing nothing between gigs. With the price point that Jim is aiming for I'm not sure is the status quo applies.

For example... if you are only doing one shoot every two weeks you will probably recoupe your investment within a year. Since the camera is truely upgradeable you don't have to be paranoid about buying a piece of equipment that is outdated the day you buy it. As far as accessories go, I assume that RED will demand the same of their 3rd party accessory vendors that they do of their own company... that is "Sell an awesome product at a fair price and sell tons of them"

[Greg Lowry]

thisiswells: I don't know how you arrive at the 4%/day number, but it's far too high. For example, a $15,000 Zeiss film lens rents for about $150/day or 1% of capital cost. Digiprimes are closer 1.5%-2%. Some accessories go for 2%, some may be a little higher but they don't raise the overall package price to 4% of capital cost. At 4%/day it doesn't make much sense to rent. At 4%, $200,000 camera package would rent for $8,000/day. Perhaps prosumer gear rents for a higher ratio because it depreciates faster, but overall pro gear rents for between 1% and 2% of capital cost per day.

[thisiswells]

overall pro gear rents for between 1% and 2% of capital cost per day. I would be thrilled if I could find a Kino Flo 4-Bank for $10 a day. They're more like $40 to $70 a day. You're right about the cameras, though. I was thinking of lighting... oh well.

Sorry for the confusion. :)

[Jarred Land]

You guys are applying film rates to video gear.. I mean a $3000 dvx even rents for at least $150 a day. Im pretty sure red body alone will be renting out between $600 and $800 a day... and yes I know thats the same price as a CineAlta.

A HVX200 seems to be averaging out at $400 a day.

You also need to take demand into consideration. When this camera drops there are going to be boatloads of DP and Directors lining up wanting to take it for a spin.. I anticipate paying off my RED in rentals alone in a month or two.

[Windjammer]

You guys are applying film rates to video gear.. I mean a $3000 dvx even rents for at least $150 a day. Im pretty sure red body alone will be renting out between $600 and $800 a day... and yes I know thats the same price as a CineAlta.

So might a basic RED package be more realistic at about $1000 - $1500 a day? A 3 -day rental week would put that at about $3,000 - $4,500 a week???

[donatello]

also remember rental rates are also based on how a prediction of the life ( yeas) of the camera ( accessories) .. film camera's have many more years of life then a video camera .. so depending on how RED camera handles the hard conditions of production and many hands holding, dropping, gripping it ! time will tell ....

AND rental rates are affected by SUPPLY & DEMAND .. so rates of RED could be higher for 1st few/several months until they become common in rental houses ...

[joelnet]

I anticipate paying off my RED in rentals alone in a month or two.

Wow - I think I'll move to LA for a few months after I get mine.

Do you always go with your camera? How do you handle insurance?

[Jarred Land]

also remember rental rates are also based on how a prediction of the life (..

and same with lenses.. sure, $30,000 lenses rent for $150 a day, but those lenses can rent for 15 years.

[Jarred Land]

Wow - I think I'll move to LA for a few months after I get mine.

Do you always go with your camera? How do you handle insurance?
I made enough to pay off my HVX in 2 weeks.. its not that unreasonable to expect 2 months for the RED. I was a little lucky of course cause i was one of the first people in LA to have the camera, but buying my way into red early at #10 i got a pretty good chance of getting the same benifits of supply and demand.

I go out with my camera 99% of the time, the only time i dont is if I borrow it to a friend. Most of the shows i work on have production insurance so im not really worried about things going to hell.

[joelnet]

but buying my way into red early at #10 i got a pretty good chance of getting the same benifits of supply and demand.


I think you're right. In the beginning you should really kill. I'm way down the list so I hope there's not huge lag time. I think the RED rental market will probably be strong for a long time though. It's still an expensive camera to own for many producers and shooters. And lenses are a real wildcard in my mind at this point. At least in LA you can easily rent any lens you need.

[Jarred Land]

yeah im glad with the PL mount on the Red.. as PL mounts is a standard thats not going anywhere anytime soon, and a box of primes is usually one of the investments DP's make when they finally "make it"..

[joelnet]

yeah im glad with the PL mount on the Red.. as PL mounts is a standard thats not going anywhere anytime soon, and a box of primes is usually one of the investments DP's make when they finally "make it"..

Do you have any advice on where to get reviews and current used value information on some of these lenses. I don't even have a clue where to start researching a purchase like lenses. I'm kinda hoping Red offers a reasonably priced zoom that covers typical shooting... but a set of primes would be nice.