FCP's DVCPRO HD Codec not readable on a PC?

[MrGlory]

I posted a question in the after effects forum as we're trying to open the imported FCP DVCPRO HD files on a PC in After Effects and I'm looking for a place to get the codec to use on the PC. I got a reply saying:

It's not going to work. While there is QT 7 for Macs and QT 7 for PCs, the particular codec Apple is using is specific to FCP installs, NOT to QT in general.

Is there really no way to view/edit DVCPRO HD files off a FCP P2 import on a PC? If so, this will completely kill the logic in our purchase...

[HVXguy]

You could get Edius but you could not see the files in AE.
I can view and edit MAC DVCPRO HD files using Edius with a PC.
What you could do is export from Edius using the Animation
uncompressed codec and use those files in AE.
What is your ultimate delivery for??

[MrGlory]

I do Recruiting/Retention videos for the National Guard (ie. This is the Medical Career field, and the opportunitiest therein, etc.). We have multiple systems, and thought this P2 business was a lifesaver for getting the footage around quick and easy. The idea that we'd have to go through three conversions before a single file is cross platform editable, totally hoses this plan.

This is bad.

[HVXguy]

I know your pain. What editing platform are you using?
There are some other options with Avid and Premiere Pro
can deal with .mxf through Cineform. If you are using Vegas
I would look elsewhere, I doubt Sony will ever support DVCPRO HD.

But for the ultimate easiest experience using P2 it is FCP. That is why all the FCP editors are
awaiting the heavy metal Intel boxes...I really hope that HD really
takes off when speed issues are addressed!

[MrGlory]

We use mainly Macs for editing, and PC's for compositing/3D with After Effects and Maya. We were looking forward to the coming Mac Pro towers as well, but not planning on being almost dead in the water until then. This really sucks.

We've been pushing to get almost all the cameras replaced with P2 capable cameras, and advocating this also for a new media archiving system that the Guard Media department is setting up. This kills the P2 plan as one file may not actually work on one system while the other, if it happened to be converted ahead of time on a Mac might. I can't believe it took me this long to realize this, what a nightmare.

I can see Apple's motives, but not Panasonic's.

Has there been anything solid about future FCP working with MXF? This would be the only thing to save our plans if the eta is quick on that update...

[esperman]

[/I]Is there really no way to view/edit DVCPRO HD files off a FCP P2 import on a PC? If so, this will completely kill the logic in our purchase...

well just export the DVCPRO HD QT to uncompressed if you need to edit FCP files in another application....this is nothing new going back and forth bewteen PC and MAC.

Any PC that has DVCPRO HD codecs installed should be able to edit either QT or AVI. I take in DVCPRO and DVCAM AVI's all the time and edit in FCP.

[MrGlory]

Any PC that has DVCPRO HD codecs installed should be able to edit either QT or AVI. I take in DVCPRO and DVCAM AVI's all the time and edit in FCP.
That sounds good, only there is NO DVCPRO HD codec for the PC. This is laughable, they should've called it "MACONLYHD". When you read "DVCPRO" you think "DVCPRO" only not anymore, Apple has made a proprietary DVCPRO HD unusable on PC. There is a DV100 codec by Avid that is supposedly close, but it does not read DVCPRO HD encoded files. But the point is that the process to share a single file for archiving, or compositing between PC and MAC (in the same manner as DVCPRO or DV) off P2 is not an option right now.

The best we figure until FCP can import MXF directly, thereby making MXF the archivable/sharable file format (vs. what we were planning on doing by importing all P2 into FCP and then archiving/sharing the DVCPRO HD Files) or Apple makes a DVCPRO HD codec available to PC, we're screwed. Yes, we can alternately RECONVERT all files AGAIN after import into FCP but by this point, the whole idea of P2 timesaving has been shot on a massive scale for our purposes.

[esperman]

I guess I don't get the drama.
I use Lightwave on PC all the time....I havent run into a brick wall doing any effect shots between PC & MAC. Export image sequence for composit..or uncompressed.
I doubt your exporting a 60 min sequence for CG or composite.

[MrGlory]

I guess I don't get the drama...I havent run into a brick wall doing any effect shots between PC & MAC
You alone would probably not have a problem exporting an uncompressed clip or two here and there, working with teams and other agencies with most everyone used to the sharable DVCPRO codecs using the same file off of media storage servers is a different issue.

Yes, internally we can handle the situation over more time, space, and money. The problem is the afforementioned media archive setup for inter-agency use. We believed that the DVCPRO HD codec was a standard codec like the rest of DVCPRO. So that after shoots all over the country/world the footage stored on the media server would be available for edit by us and the other National Guard agencies whether they were on Mac/PC regardless of software, as I said before, like DVCPRO.

When the DVCPRO/DV files are put on the server, anyone with just about any software can pull it down and use it.

As far as we can tell, the answer is to this situation is to store the MXF and provide a caveat to the other groups that they will have to purchase a way to convert and use (unless they just happen to be using Canopus or Mac) until MXF support is developed further.

There may be no drama for you, but trust me, this is the government, and we're going to make their lives that less simple and it's going to cost more. Whether or not it was innevitable, there's going to be plenty of drama (after we thought we'd saved the day with P2 and DVCPRO HD).

[esperman]

Shoot DVCPRO 25 for now.
It's not like HDV would have been any better for you.

[Barry_Green]

It's Apple's problem to solve. Apple writes Quicktime, Apple created their own DVCPRO-HD Quicktime codec, and Apple has so far failed to implement it into the PC version.

Eventually they should rectify that.

You can download and install the free Avid DVCPRO-HD codec, which works with quicktime, but I'm not certain whether it would let you play a mac DV100 QT file or not.

[carlone]

Barry you're right. In a fair world Apple would do that, but ...

If wouldn't expect Apple (anytime soon if ever) to add features to Quicktime that enhance playback or recording of HD on a PC. They want you to purchase and work on a Mac.

If you plan to have PC's anywhere in your workflow you should consider Avid products - at least they support both Mac and PC.

[mark.burton]

Avid is your best bet for getting everyone on the same footing with regard to this footage. Currently Win Xpress Pro 5.2.x has all the necessary HD support for NTSC users, but Xpress Pro 5.5, Media Composer Software 2.5 and Adrenaline 2.5 are coming soon and will be identical on both Mac and PC. This includes the Avid DVCPRO HD codec (DV100) which is a Quicktime codec that will work the same on both platforms. These Avid NLE's are also able to work natively with P2 MXF.

[Barry_Green]

If wouldn't expect Apple (anytime soon if ever) to add features to Quicktime that enhance playback or recording of HD on a PC. They want you to purchase and work on a Mac.
Logical, except for one big thing -- why even make Quicktime for the PC at all then?

Obviously it's there so PC users can play quicktime files (which, by and large, are produced on Macs. PC users fairly rarely use QTs, they use AVI by an overwhelming margin).

So why make QT for the PC, yet not let it play QT files? Certain QT files, but still... if it's quicktime, it should be quicktime. It should be compatible. For them to purposely make it incompatible is just plain their fault and they should rectify it.

[MrGlory]

For them to purposely make it incompatible is just plain their fault and they should rectify it.
AMEN

[HVXguy]

Logical, except for one big thing -- why even make Quicktime for the PC at all then?

Obviously it's there so PC users can play quicktime files (which, by and large, are produced on Macs. PC users fairly rarely use QTs, they use AVI by an overwhelming margin).

So why make QT for the PC, yet not let it play QT files? Certain QT files, but still... if it's quicktime, it should be quicktime. It should be compatible. For them to purposely make it incompatible is just plain their fault and they should rectify it.

That is why we try to have two versions of our files. I did many surveys and discovered that many FCP editors were frustrated with not having readily available stock footage that did not require rendering and much of the PhotoJpeg available stock footage is not gamma corrected for the MAC. And we have the PhotoJpeg versions for PC users that work great in Vegas.