MAC 8 core Desktops

[Jarred Land]

Wholly crap..

http://www.macosrumors.com/20060606A.php

thanks Mike Curtis for giving the word.

8 cores.. thats gonna be impressive.

[imgentertainment@mac]

Kind find the page or anything about. I think someone at apple got mad

[for_mlove]

Yeah, I can't find it either. When were they predicted to be out??

[Jarred Land]

very odd.. very very odd. Wonder whats going on with all that. They said a couple weeks, but remember, that was a rumour.

[RaySigmond]

The title my jaw drop when I read it

[jeffyjones]

Come on, you know how those Mac rumor sites go. They post an obvious future product from Apple and say it's soon, about four or five times before it actually happens. Duh.

[kai]

I did see a screengrab a few months ago of the osx activity monitor, showing 8 intel processors humming along. If that's the case... i'm first in line.

[krestofre]

Since the MacBooks (both of them) are on par with the G5's I'd say that Apple has to do something to really impress with their new Workstation line. A Core Duo chip isn't going to do it. Two Core Duo chips would be nice, but Four Core Duo chips would almost outweigh the 64-bit-ness of the PowerPC Chips.

[oneinfiniteloop]

I'm pretty sure the chips that will go into the PowerMac's are the Conroe proc's from Intel, which I believe are 64 bit. My quesiton is when is someone going to release some apps that take advantage of the 64 bit architecture. I've had my G5 for about a year now, and I don't see anyone releasing any kind of apps (AE, PS, Maya, etc) that take advantage of the 64 bit framework, but you have Windows apps (Lightwave, Cinema 4D, etc) waving the flag of 64 bit all over the place, and their new OS isnt' even out.

[HDRebel88]

Intel said by late 2007 or 2008 they'll release 8 core processor, so with a quad motherboard and Hyper-Threading you get 64 logical processor/32 physical processors.

Sometime early next year they're supposed to release quad core.


"Intel has scheduled to launch its quad-core processor, codenamed "Kentsfield", in the first quarter of 2007.

At about the same time, rival AMD will debut its K8L series, a quad-core upgrade of its K8 architecture, reports Digitimes.com citing Taiwanese industry sources.

The launch of Intel's 64-bit dual-core processor, the Conroe that will be included in its "Averill" platform for business desktops, will happen in September, following the June launch of AMD's Socket AM2 CPU offering, the sources noted. Despite Intel's late entry, its Conroe series will be manufactured on a 65nm process, as opposed to AMD's 90nm manufacturing node.

The demand for the new quad core processors is expected to be increased early next year, when Microsoft's new operating system will be available." (Windows Vista)


Intel Press Release-
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/events/idfspr_2006/20060313_multicore_fact_sheet_decoder.pdf

[blckhawk542]

I bet that comp is gonna be zipping through HD footage like nothing.

I bet these are the lines of computers that a lot of people are gonna buy when they get the RED camera.
I mean seriously...8 core processor?? its like 39847983743 horse power!!!

4k footage is going to be a joke!!

[kai]

I bet that comp is gonna be zipping through HD footage like nothing.

I bet these are the lines of computers that a lot of people are gonna buy when they get the RED camera.
I mean seriously...8 core processor?? its like 39847983743 horse power!!!

4k footage is going to be a joke!!

Although it hasn't always been just processing power clogging the pipeline... a common roadblock is often storage and bandwidth TO that storage...

[Jack_Felis]

8 cores... 8....

The only problem I have with this is whether we'll be able to upgrade these ourselves once quad-core single processors come out. I want a new Mac Pro but I've got to weigh the options of buying one in August, the time when I plan to get a new camera, or waiting until I can have 16 cores. That's the tough part I think. I don't really need a new computer for any of the cameras currently available, I've got a Mac Mini that will do fine for SD footage to tide me over and then I of course have my rockin' PC systems. All I need is a copy of Avid Xpress Pro/Media Composer and I'm good to go on the PC until Apple gets what I want them to get so I can get my whole FCP setup going.

But this is just a rumor, they could just have an Intel-based Quad computer, no biggie. We'll have to see. But SLI is almost necessary at the moment for the possibility for even higher resolutions (ie. 4K and up).

Nice find Mike and thanks for letting us know Jarred. :)

[kai]

8 cores... 8....

The only problem I have with this is whether we'll be able to upgrade these ourselves once quad-core single processors come out.

Macs have never had user-upgradable processors (from apple that is).

[Jack_Felis]

True, but aren't these the same processors we will be able to get for our PC systems or are they made special? I'm good with info on the PC front, but I don't know much about the insides of these new Intel Macs.

[hatsoff2halford]

so when is the dual core with intel chips coming out? that should be sometime soon, right?

[Jarred Land]

8 cores... 8....

The only problem I have with this is whether we'll be able to upgrade these ourselves once quad-core single processors come out. I want a new Mac Pro but I've got to weigh the options of buying one in August, the time when I plan to get a new camera, or waiting until I can have 16 cores.
Nice find Mike and thanks for letting us know Jarred. :)

im actually waiting till the software from adobe becomes cross platform, thats when i will switch to a new tower.

[tbanucci]

Holy crap- 8 core? I can't wait till WWDC so I can dump this exhaust fan of a G5...

[HDRebel88]

I bet that comp is gonna be zipping through HD footage like nothing.

I bet these are the lines of computers that a lot of people are gonna buy when they get the RED camera.
I mean seriously...8 core processor?? its like 39847983743 horse power!!!

4k footage is going to be a joke!!

yeah, it be effectively running 20+ GHz per processor, without hyperthreading.

[kai]

True, but aren't these the same processors we will be able to get for our PC systems or are they made special? I'm good with info on the PC front, but I don't know much about the insides of these new Intel Macs.

They're not the exact same as their pc counterparts apparently

[aravance]

I'm only going to buy it if they call it the Oct-core processor.

[Jack_Felis]

Hmmm, well then I guess I can wait on the tower and just get a Core Duo 2 Macbook Pro, if they make one right away that is, to hold me for HD stuff until they implement quad-cores.

HDRebel88, that's not exactly true. Adding another 3ghz processor to a 3ghz computer for example wouldn't make that computer a 6ghz computer. Multi-cores allow for much more to be done at once which is, technically, almost the same idea as a faster processor. However, the speed is the same and that can still be upgraded, multi-cores just let us move more than we used to, but we still move at the same speed, know what I mean?

[HDRebel88]

They're basically multi-level processors, dual core is two processors stacked on top of each other, allowing one app to run through one and another app to run the other. Effectively giving each app its on processor to use. Each processor processes each app by itself, Core one runs say
Avid and then Core two would run PhotoShop, allowing full flowing processing line for each app.

(http://intel.com/products/processor_number/index_view_core.htm, then click on Discover Processor Technologies, Once it loads click Dual Core Technology.)

[cheezweezl]

Come on, you know how those Mac rumor sites go. They post an obvious future product from Apple and say it's soon, about four or five times before it actually happens. Duh.

just like the touchscreen ipod that was supposed to be out in april......

[Shaw]

Just imagine the power bill running one of these things!

[Yardsale]

So uh, new casing too? :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

[robbo]

Sorry guys, I'll throw a little perspective on this.
macosrumours prolly has the worst rep of any of the mac rumour sites. Sorry once again - it just has. It stinks.

Suggest you have a look around on these 2 - if you can wade thru all the junk that gets posted, occassionally there's some good info.

http://forums.applenova.com/
http://www.appleinsider.com/

No affiliation here with either.
cheers

[blckhawk542]

Although it hasn't always been just processing power clogging the pipeline... a common roadblock is often storage and bandwidth TO that storage...

sorry im kinda late to respond.

but comeon..storage will definitly not be a problem. Ive seen harddrives for computers that go up to 600 gb

These macs are going to have many inputs for harddrives or other drivers..if you buy like 3 600 gb harddrives..thats 1800gb...over a terabyte of space.
If Maxtor can create 1 terabyte external harddrives (but from two 500gb drives combined)..most likely in the future, companies will start making internal single drives that store 1 terabyte or 2 if its physically capable.


and RAM...the G5's now can go up to more than 2gb. These new comps will probablly triple that amount.
because they're making this computer a monster for processing..obviously its going to have loads of RAM.

I just think the cost will the biggest concern.

[Bobaristheguy]

This is such an exciting time for graphic designers and video editors alike... Vista and the Intel Mac in particular are a major milestone. The ability to run Windows on a Mac system and Apple software being able to run on an Intel chip will finally create the uni-platform system I have dreamed about. I have been arguing with all my graphic design friends for years because I have been saying that mac/pc will become cross-platform, but noone would believe me.

The new 8-core system sounds amazing and I am looking foward to it, but I am more exited about adobe and what they are doing to redifine the design world. The buyout of Macromedia alone was making me cream my pants (the idea that dreamweaver would run drag and drop with adobe creative suite). Now the Intel Mac has finally given them the path to create their software uni-platform (something they have been striving for years).

What this ultimately means is the downfall of Microsofts massive dominance. Microsoft will still have the majority, but Mac is going to take a big part of their market. The only thing that has been holding Mac back has been their lack of software and they finally have realized how to market their items with ipod and will continue to do so with the intel line. My only hope is that AMD can find a way to even the playing field with Intel (I thought their 64bit processor would do the trick, but I was wrong). All this competition ultimately means better products and prices for us.

Another great thing is software. Final Cut now has a chance to take some of the market away avid../

[bklyndv]

AMD even the playing field? They've been ahead of Intel for quite some time now...

[zeke]

AMD has announced plans for an 8 core cpu by late next year, I'm sure Intel will counter. But I'm pretty sure they are for the server and high end workstation markets (Xeon and Opteron) so don't hold your breath unless you have lots of money to spend. Still, 2+ 8 core cpus = renderfarm on your desk.

Don't the new core 2 duos have the emt64 instruction set put back in? Also, according to an interview by Intel folks earlier this year, the sse, sse2 and sse3 instructions in the core 2 duos take only 1 cycle instead of 4, so mpeg encoding and other multi-media related operations are going to speed up significantly.

[Bobaristheguy]

I meant that comment about AMD as being market share. Intel is by far the dominant processor and will only continue to further its dominance with the Intel Mac (the only market it hadnt tapped into).

The one thing that scares me about this 8-core system is that software wont utilize it and then I am spending massive amounts of money for a computer running at partial speed. I mean dual processors have been around for a while now and support is still limited. But maybe software companies will finally get off their asses and do some work. I mean Vista is to release soon and rumors of a new Mac Os have been floating around (although only a small amount of rumors are fact). Maybe companies are waiting for them to release....

[Haakon]

So uh, new casing too? :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
You KNOW there will be new casing once a new tower is announced. That's just how they play. :) I hope it's a little smaller than their current offering... I've been using a Shuttle PC for the last three years and I love how compact it is. Those G5 towers are gigantic.


but comeon..storage will definitly not be a problem. Ive seen harddrives for computers that go up to 600 gb
Seagate already has single-drive disks that go up to 750GB using their new perpendicular recording technology. They've announced 1TB in a 3.5" FF by the end of the year, too. :)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148134

[Yardsale]

You KNOW there will be new casing once a new tower is announced. That's just how they play. :) I hope it's a little smaller than their current offering... I've been using a Shuttle PC for the last three years and I love how compact it is. Those G5 towers are gigantic.
macbook pro is identical to the powerbook :(

[nycfilmmaker]

Anything that will be releassd by Apple will be announced first at mac world in AUGUST then most likely shipping 1 to 3 months after.

8 cores i suspect will be Dual Kentfield cores (2x 4 core chips) which come out Q1 2007. So expect 4 core woodcrest in August, will knock the pants off of anything that mac has put out so far.

[BenB]

Apple will be using the "Conroe" and "Kentfield" chips, but this rumor is not accurate according to what I've been told about Apple's future Intel high end towers. The are not supposed to be out until the end of 06, early 07. Said chips are not ready for production yet, according to Intel. But when it is, it will be very impressive.

No, the current core duo Intels in the MacBooks are NOT what will go into the high end towers. Apple has already stated that publicly.

Then again, this is the same rumor site that got worked up about $10k per seat FCP Extreme. Anyone who serisously thought about the price tag would have known it was BS from the start. In the past year I've lost all respect for that Mac rumor site. They've just gone over the edge and lost their sanity.

As for not getting full support for multiple processor systems, well, UNIX has been running 24-bit multi-processor systems full blown for YEARS! (I'm a former UNIX specialist.) Apple got OS X up to speed with not only multiple processors, but also with 46-bit processing very quickly. Apple is way ahead of that game than Microsoft in that resect. I guess ol' Bill is jumping ship now that Windows is floundering to keep up with everyone else. Does that sound smug? Sorry, but I am.

[BenB]

This is such an exciting time for graphic designers and video editors alike... Vista and the Intel Mac in particular are a major milestone.

Another great thing is software. Final Cut now has a chance to take some of the market away avid../

Well, first up, Vista is still a pipe dream that is way, way behind schedule and has dropped many promised features along the way. Features OS X now does. So, I don't see Vista as a milestone, just a catch up to everyone else.

As for FCP "now" having the chance to take market away from Avid, well, that's been happening for years. It's not a new thing.

[jeffyjones]

Nonsense. Vista is stable and quite usable today. I'm an Apple fanboy as well, but also a Microsoft developer. Vista is well on track for the November RTM. I agree that it's a shame that the new file system in particular won't ship, but as someone who has touched Vista, I don't know that it would've made that much of a difference to the end user anyway.

[Camera Expert]

Imagine if all of this became true.
The top model would be:
8 processors, 32 gigs of RAM considering the Quad can hold 16 gigs of Ram. Add to the package Final Cut Extreme that is said to support RED.

The Quad is already overkill. This thing would be mind bobbling. I would have many sleepless nights if I were to ever win the lottery and own one of these. Some people may actually suffer a heart attack if Apple were to release it with the same specs this August..

[Frizzle Fry]

Finally, a computer that will make me a better filmmaker! Thank You, Steve Jobs!

[kai]

The Quad is already overkill.

Dude the quad is only scratching the surface of getting to the speed level where we need to be... I bog it down to a crawl daily.

[Unix]

yeah but how much is it gonna be?

[oneinfiniteloop]

Finally, a computer that will make me a better filmmaker! Thank You, Steve Jobs!

How's this going to happen? Curious... :huh:

:)

[EShy]

They're not the exact same as their pc counterparts apparently
They will be EXACTLY the same, identical, to the chips available for PCs
Intel already stated they will not produce chips for Apple, or even release them to Apple before they release them to the rest of the market. you must remember most of Intel's market is still the PC/Windows users.

The only differences can be in how they use the chips, but anything they can do MOBO companies can do the same for PCs

I don't know about you but I thoght the new Mac ads are stupid and belong in the past (they did the same exact ads 20 years ago) there are no big differences anymore between the capabilities now that the hardware is the same, it's just that OSX is a better user experience

[Yardsale]

Well, just learned that it'll be getting a revamped casing design, can't wait! (not that I can afford one :crybaby:)

[imgentertainment@mac]

Dude the quad is only scratching the surface of getting to the speed level where we need to be... I bog it down to a crawl daily.

i agree we do need more power i bog my quad all the time

[razamalik]

any news on the intel mac towers? when can we expect announcements?

[Paul Coleman]

i agree we do need more power i bog my quad all the time

Absolutely. Just use the Remove Grain function in AE and the Quad melts. :/

[tbanucci]

any news on the intel mac towers? when can we expect announcements?

WWDC is the 2nd week of August. You will probably hear it then! :costumed-smiley-047

[Jarred Land]

man wwsd is looking to be one hell of a launch day for apple.. there is almost a dozen things rumoured to be announced.

[razamalik]

thats great... i have been holding on to purchase a new editing machine just to see how good the intel-mac tower will perform & i am pretty sure it'l out perform the current quad's easily... a mate of mine just spent over £2600 on a Matrox RT.X2 HDV System & it is blazing fast when it comes to rendering... i would expect the intel-mac to be of similar or better speed... woops i cant wait man LOL!

[parallax]

I'm sorry but there are so many misinformed peeps in this post it makes me wanna tear my face off.

-a multi core CPU does not have the same performance as the added individual cores on a megahertz basis. Not by a long shot. Scaling in singlethreaded apps is horrible.

-multi-core computing does not make transfering 300+mb/s streams of video any faster. No amount of CPU power wil allow you to overcome the bandwidth problems of HD video, let alone 4K. (unless you have terabytes of RAM) HDD's are, and have been the bottleneck of computing for quite some time now.

-Apple will not use special faster CPU's compared to it's Windows competitors, simply because Apple's part of the Intel Profit pie is exactly this: point-zero-something. Apple and Windows systems are 99.99% identical.

[JY_Blue]

interesting. is the memory bottleneck likely to burst anytime soon?

[razamalik]

I'm sorry but there are so many misinformed peeps in this post it makes me wanna tear my face off.

-a multi core CPU does not have the same performance as the added individual cores on a megahertz basis. Not by a long shot. Scaling in singlethreaded apps is horrible.

-multi-core computing does not make transfering 300+mb/s streams of video any faster. No amount of CPU power wil allow you to overcome the bandwidth problems of HD video, let alone 4K. (unless you have terabytes of RAM) HDD's are, and have been the bottleneck of computing for quite some time now.

-Apple will not use special faster CPU's compared to it's Windows competitors, simply because Apple's part of the Intel Profit pie is exactly this: point-zero-something. Apple and Windows systems are 99.99% identical.

gossh u made some really good points :) ... i'd still wait to see what comes out of apple doors before i buy my next machine though...

[Shaw]

i agree we do need more power i bog my quad all the time
Yeah, but do FCP and After Effects take advantage of all four cores? I was under the impression that neither do. With the way the market is going these days I think the end user would see a much better performance gain by upgrading the GPU (or even using several at once).

[razamalik]

Ok guys Apple has announced the new Mac Pro & its a Quad 3.Ghz Intel Xean system with a lot of expansion & some killer options for graphics... looks awsome! check it out on apple.com

[Jarred Land]

i just ordered the 3ghz. Im hoping i can drop my 1900xt ATI card from my Pc system into this system.. somehow i doubt it.

[razamalik]

congratulations Jarred ! hope it works out for you the way you want. I am gonna be getting it hopefully soon & so far i think i'l get it on the standard configuration & add the RAM & 3 extra Hard drives myself & save a lot of money as apple charges crazy money for RAM... even the 500GB SATA drives seem to be double the market price.
Whats your take on that?

[tbanucci]

I never get the memory upgrades or hard drives from Apple. Go to newegg or Fry's and pick em up for half the price. It's the same and sometimes better quality as the OEM stuff Apple gets.

I may turn in my 2.5 G5 for one of the 3 GHz they came out with today. Let us know how the fans are Jarred.....

[Jarred Land]

i just went to newegg lol.. I dont know what apple is thinking.. they bragged about how the system was $1000 cheaper than Dell but the drives are more than 2x the cost for upgrade. I guess you gotta take in consideration paying some dude 80 bucks a minute to unbox the system, open it up, put the drive in etc... but still. Ill do it myself thank you.

[projectsplat]

They're not the exact same as their pc counterparts apparently

if recent events with the Mac Mini are anything to go by, they are exactly the same.

there is a tute out there on the web showing yo how to upgrade a single core Mac mini to a dual core bought from Newegg.

[projectsplat]

I'm sorry but there are so many misinformed peeps in this post it makes me wanna tear my face off.

-a multi core CPU does not have the same performance as the added individual cores on a megahertz basis. Not by a long shot. Scaling in singlethreaded apps is horrible.

-multi-core computing does not make transfering 300+mb/s streams of video any faster. No amount of CPU power wil allow you to overcome the bandwidth problems of HD video, let alone 4K. (unless you have terabytes of RAM) HDD's are, and have been the bottleneck of computing for quite some time now.

-Apple will not use special faster CPU's compared to it's Windows competitors, simply because Apple's part of the Intel Profit pie is exactly this: point-zero-something. Apple and Windows systems are 99.99% identical.

indeed. worse than that, most of the Apple software (and any other for that matter) is not properly optimised for Quad core multi-processing, which means that it bogs down in an instant with very little actual processing happening. I remember doing some tests a few months ago, where my Powerbook 17" was outrunning a Quad core G5. very sad indeed.

[razamalik]

i just went to newegg lol.. I dont know what apple is thinking.. they bragged about how the system was $1000 cheaper than Dell but the drives are more than 2x the cost for upgrade. I guess you gotta take in consideration paying some dude 80 bucks a minute to unbox the system, open it up, put the drive in etc... but still. Ill do it myself thank you.

cool stuff i'l hopefully do the same when i get mine, let us know how the set up goes & give us all your system spec specialy what brand & type of memory & hard drives you put in there & it would be great to know how it performs. i am hoping your graphics card can make it into the system.

i'l wait for a full review of the system from you ;)

[OliverM]

i just went to newegg lol.. I dont know what apple is thinking.. they bragged about how the system was $1000 cheaper than Dell but the drives are more than 2x the cost for upgrade. I guess you gotta take in consideration paying some dude 80 bucks a minute to unbox the system, open it up, put the drive in etc... but still. Ill do it myself thank you.


Hm, werent they saying that changing a drive is easier then ever and 'tool free' ? Then why should some geezer in the store do that. Might be some special connector to fit in their system. Seems like some kinda trays. Oh well, a regular Sata should fit I guess. But as far as the RAM goes we're scr*wed. Special RAM with a heatsink on it. But imagine 2 dual 3Ghz cpu's and 16gigs of RAM. Shake just got realtime. :) (No, not really. I know!)

[prezorg]

so far i think i'l get it on the standard configuration & add the RAM & 3 extra Hard drives myself & save a lot of money as apple charges crazy money for RAM...

I saved myself money by going with third party ram on my first two apple systems, but then I had a machine with problems. The problems may or may have not been third party ram related. Either way apple care is much less likely to fix your machine until you swap out for their ram, reinstall everything and then have the same problem. Then I also had to go through the extra effort of getting my ram replaced from the third party. (not really a big deal, but I am lazy.)

I now always get my extra ram from apple and pay the extra money as headache insurance. If something goes wrong with my machine, I have less hoops to jump through. Apple still charges a premium for their ram, but their mark up is not half as bad as what they charged 5 or 6 years ago. If you value your time as much as your money, you may want to consider keeping all the ram Apple.

Just my thoughts,
~Ian

[JY_Blue]

I now always get my extra ram from apple and pay the extra money as headache insurance. If something goes wrong with my machine, I have less hoops to jump through. Apple still charges a premium for their ram, but their mark up is not half as bad as what they charged 5 or 6 years ago. If you value your time as much as your money, you may want to consider keeping all the ram Apple.

Just my thoughts,
~Ian

I called an Apple Store where a very honest and helpful employee suggested I buy RAM from Crucial.com. He said it would be the "exact same unit" that they put in the machine at 1/2 the price. Bet that 3rd party vendor would have prevented your headache and saved you a lot of money.

[prezorg]

He said it would be the "exact same unit" that they put in the machine at 1/2 the price. Bet that 3rd party vendor would have prevented your headache and saved you a lot of money.

I'm sure the memory would be "the exact same unit" as apple doesn't manufacture their own ram, they just repackage and resell. The "headache" is once your are dealing with applecare troubleshooting your machine. They don't like to fix your machine until you have reinstalled the OS and had the same problem on your machine with only the original apple ram in it.

In my case, the original amount of apple ram wasn't enough to do HD in FCP, so I had to buy more apple ram and sell the www.memorysolutions.com ram to a friend to try and recoup some of my costs.

Having all apple ram empowers the apple employees to move more swiftly when trying to fix or troubleshoot your computer. The downtime and extra hoops I had to go through cost me far more than any money I would have saved. If you use your computer as a tool to make money, my recommendation for purchasing ram is to stick with apple ram.

[TheJackyl]

Hey I read that the duel core Xeon woodcrest processors are a workstation version of the core2 duo processor, can someone confirm this? Thanks