BONE HAND by Jack Daniel Stanley [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-05-2006, 12:44 PM

EDIT: 6/15/06

Thanks to my cast and crew all ...

but here's a shout out specifically to the guys (and lady) on the forum that made this little flick possible.

There were no less than 12 DVXusers who collaborated in some official capacity or donated goods or services to Bone Hand (that # has to be a record right?). There are many more that warrant thanks ... but here in the forum I'll just hank the people you know and let you know some of the ways they contributed to the film.

so ... thank you and congrats to ...

MSMANHATTAN
Produced two of the top five (RfEyeD and Bone Hand) Her enthusiasm and resourcefulness really brought the piece together and she was responsible for finding the a great kid after I was dumb enough to write a script centered around one.
ARAM BAUMAN
in addition to pulling a top 5 film out of his arse with killer VFX at the last minute, Aram saved our asses by figuring out how to light the roof scene without electrocuting everyone when we lost the light (all of it) on our first day of shooting and then it rained covering the roof in 2 inches of water. We just would have lost that day if he hadn't figured out a brilliant plan of shooting light out of the stairwell and bouncing onto a series of sun reflectors. Also he's largely responsible for the look of Bone Hand's apartment interior. It was one of those very collaborative Head Gaffer and DP collaborations where I described the look of the scene and a few specific effects and then he just went to town lighting it on his own an adding shape and dept. He did way better than I could have done on my own.
TIMUR CIVAN
Shot most of the movie and was there every single shoot for every second that I was. Timur shot the opening rain sequence for example. At the end of that shoot he looked like he had jumped into a swimming pool fully clothed. Timur was tireless and constantly found new ways to contribute and improve what we were doing and was absolutely fantastic to be around 110% of the time. He's talented, tireless, and a good egg. In my previous two films (all shot by me) the camera was much lighter and flew around a lot, but Timur was able to operate in a way that added weight and felt more cinematic.
HERMAN WITKAM
of course provided music that totally helped tell the story and totally rocked. Herman was great to work with. We did three drafts of the score, and I think each had 10 or more pages of notes for him, but he just turned them around and came back implementing everything awesomely. I'm a tough date in the score department and Herman never blinked and I never detected any frustration in our communication. He just took the notes and did the work and got everything back on time.
TEXTURE
did the Audio Sweetening and it made a huge difference. He really knew what he was doing and where I would have just turned the volume up and down on different tracks he skillfully notched out frequencies in the ambient beds / etc. that conflicted with the human voice and was just able to clean up a lot of the location sound. I think he is working with Dahopa on the DVD version of his flick, and he will probably be inundated after this but hit him up for your project - he loves story and filmmaking.
TC
did a great job with the title design and animation. I kept getting the note on other things that my titles were lacking and I had a lot on my plat with this one so I hit him up because I knew he would deliver, and he did. Also he allowed me to use a clip from his Zombie Fest entry THE LIVING'S END (the axe to the head when the little girl's watching TV) thanks man!!!
FLINT MI
Allowed us to shoot on his roof and was just a great gut to have around on set and toss ideas around in the editing room, he also shot some BTS.
ALEX DEPEW
Shot a ton of BTS and was also great to have around especially on the roof shoot.
REZFACTOR (the member formerly known as "N... (something) ... Shooter"
Allowed us to use an awesome and gory clip from his Zombie Fest entry INFECTION
(the guy getting shot in the head on the TV). Thank you sir.
COFFEE
Lent us his Letus35 to use along side mine. Thanks man!

and last but by no means least,
JOHN HUDSON
hooked us up with all of the Bone Hand sunglasses FOR FREE through his wife Flora's
Designer sunglass company Somatic
http://somaticoptics.com/
Thanks John. And thanks for all your input and support from wayback and up through this contest.

BRICEMAN, EVISION, and ISSAC BRODY didn't work on this film, but help keep me sane on a moment to moment basis (yes, believe it or not this is me relatively sane). Thanks guys.

And of course thanks to JARRED for giving these films a home, allolwing inspiration and knowledge to flourish like a mutant virus in zombie film, and for giving me a hard time (you bastid) :)

if I forgot anyone please forgive me ... it's late and I'm very tired ... please PM me and scream at me and I will update the post :thumbsup:

Mark Harris

06-05-2006, 01:30 PM

Yeah, I was looking forward to it yesterday, at the DVX NY meeting. But now the feeling's passed. I mean, I guess I'll still watch it. But I'll have a chip on my shoulder the whole time. :)

So Jack, were YOU in L.I. dropping a refrigerator off a building yesterday too??? I can't believe how many people used that excuse...

:)

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-05-2006, 01:38 PM

Nah I was still getting my butanza together for this thing -- I had work flow issues, no hardrive space issues, and then some compression issues.

It was funny -- I never RSVPed to the NY DVX user meeting
but a couple of people called me afterwards like "where were you!", lol :laugh:

Brandon Rice

06-05-2006, 01:52 PM

tight poster Jack... can't wait to see the film!

Aaron Marshall

06-05-2006, 04:52 PM

I downloaded about 25% of this film off of the FTP server before I was cut off. What a tease! I want to see this movie!

Matt Sconce

06-05-2006, 07:38 PM

Mike McNeese

06-05-2006, 07:55 PM

Speechless. Amazing what you did in ~ 5:00. Story came full circle...makes this a HUGE standout! Camerawork, good. Lighting, good. Soundtrack, SWEET. FX, well done and VERY fitting. Acting was impressive, especially the girl. Good job directing. Can't say anything bad about this one!

Aaron Marshall

06-05-2006, 08:10 PM

JDS,

You've done it again. I would call this:

Leon meets The Crow meets The Green Mile

That little girl reminded me of young Nancy from Sin City. She also had elements of Sarah from the crow.

SPOILERS AHEAD - SKIP THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM

The acting was good, but not outstanding. I think the strongest performer was the girl. The guy seemed a little emotionless and cold. That's good for his character though. He's kind of an undead type of hero. I just wish I could have seen a more emotional breakdown when the girl was shot. These are just teeny tiny, meenie miney, minor gripes. I know you're a visionary director and don't leave anything to chance. I bet you had your reasons, and rational beyond my understanding. I respect and admire that.

Overall I'm going to give this film very high ratings in every single category. Bravo.

mrpunch

06-05-2006, 08:32 PM

WOW! That would be: WithOut Words

GREAT story and an amazing vision. This one will stay with me for a long time. Truly inspirational and humbling. I wish I could give feedback. Instead, it is you that have given!

Thanks!

Kholi

06-05-2006, 08:37 PM

Wow wtf Jack.

That was NICE.

Your post camera action was more gratuitous than your violence and it actually didn't bother me one bit. It helped keep the quick pacing. And, well, I'm a sucker for post camera moves. The mechanical feeling, that's what I like.

Also, you guys used your adapters well. The DOF didn't feel ... how to put it ... added? Y'know? Like it's there because that's how a film/movie really is. Not "we used an adapter, can you tell?".

I also like the make-up going on, especially the "bone hand" lOl. I feel weird typing that.

Okay, the title is a little weird, different... and so is the actual bone hand concept but that's fine. It's something out of the ordinary.

The little girl's a great actor. Give her lots of money because cookies don't cut it for today's youth.

A complete short, it was.

Next contest, your title is mines. Just you wait.

Dahopafilms

06-05-2006, 08:43 PM

Dear Jack Daniel Stanley,

Please stop making films like this.

They make me feel very, very bad.

I am now going to go out and become a lawyer or something.

Or maybe an accountant.

*sniff*

(Jack Daniel Stanley: The devourer of dreams).

Bastard.

(I'll post a real review after I have recovered)

Kholi

06-05-2006, 08:53 PM

Macchu

06-05-2006, 09:20 PM

CineMark

06-05-2006, 09:26 PM

Maybe you guys are going to hate me or think I'm an idiot — but I need to say how I feel:

I don't get what all the hype is about.

It just didn't do it for me.

There were some good points, yes:
1. I think the story was interesting, with the idea of a scarifice and all.
2. I liked the little girl's acting for the most part.
3. Color was nice
4. Good locations.
5. I liked knowing at the end that the girl was still visiting the grave when she was older.

But there are just some things I can't get past:

1. I don't like those stuttery camera movements as transitions. It's hard to even explain. It's just too choppy and distracting.
2. Did the little girl smile before she spit the blood out of her mouth?
3. The white face. SciFest it was a blue face. It just seems too contrived. I know it's bone hand and all, so maybe he's dead, but it still seemed out of place.
4. The beginning didn't fit in with the rest of the story for me. It could have started with the girl on the rooftop and had the same storyline.

I don't mean to be harsh, but I wanted to be honest in how I felt. I guess I just don't see what everybody is so amazed about. I think the filming is good, the camerawork and directing are good, and overall you put together a good piece. But when I read these posts BEFORE I watched the film, and then watched the film, I was honestly let down.

Sorry for the criticism, I hope it's taken the right way.

SilverWolf

06-05-2006, 09:27 PM

Dang jack this was hot. It really kept me going throughout the whole movie

Mike McNeese

06-05-2006, 09:28 PM

Seriously JDS, I've seen it three times now, and each time I promise myself I'm going to watch for the FX work, but I get too wrapped up in the story and I forget all about it.

I'm going to go curl up in my sock drawer and sleep for days.

JimtheJib

06-05-2006, 09:31 PM

i'm really glad you decided to stay in ! this film was as great as your previous ones. the visual style (costumes, actors, fx) all worked very well together and suceeded in creating a great feeling and atmosphere!

Alex

bfischinger

06-05-2006, 09:38 PM

Great Job! I really thought that this film was very strong in many aspects: it was filmed well, had good SFX and some very impressive acting.
Overall great job- too bad I can't vote.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-05-2006, 09:46 PM

Whoah! This was really good! I loved it. I thought the story worked well and the effects were good. I really liked the end. Awesome! I would love to know what you thought of "Nine to Five Ninja" (Our Short):)

I look forward to seeing it -- is the zip file up? A hunting I go ... Thanks man.

Speechless. Amazing what you did in ~ 5:00. Story came full circle...makes this a HUGE standout! Camerawork, good. Lighting, good. Soundtrack, SWEET. FX, well done and VERY fitting. Acting was impressive, especially the girl. Good job directing. Can't say anything bad about this one!

Thanks man. I got most of what I wanted out of it and I got lucky a lot.

Jack: I wish we could shoot all of the exteriors in Rain. THis movie shouild have a cold rainy feel ... Oh well, no way we can plan around that. We just don't have the time or budget to schedule based on the weather and then reschedule and we don't have the means to take care of people properly

But then damned if it didn't rain every ext shoot with Bone Hand. So lots of things fell into place.

Especially people.

Aram's, lighting for example, really made the feel for the interior of bonehands apartment right, that was the first time I worked with a phenomenal gaffer and it made a huge difference.

JDS,

You've done it again. I would call this:

Leone meets The Crow meets The Green Mile
and don't forget the Professional :) ... oh wait .. you said "Leon" ... right.

That little girl reminded me of young Nancy from Sin City. She also had elements of Sarah from the crow.

SPOILERS AHEAD - SKIP THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM

The acting was good, but not outstanding. I think the strongest performer was the girl. The guy seemed a little emotionless and cold. That's good for his character though. He's kind of an undead type of hero. I just wish I could have seen a more emotional breakdown when the girl was shot. These are just teeny tiny, meenie miney, minor gripes. I know you're a visionary director and don't leave anything to chance. I bet you had your reasons, and rational beyond my understanding. I respect and admire that.

Overall I'm going to give this film very high ratings in every single category. Bravo.

I have to keep it real here for Joel (Bone Hand's sake) my opinion that he's a quite accomplished actor notwithstanding (I've directed him on stage three times) .... there just couldn't a more thankless less glamourous role in terms of acting -- yes you get to be cool, but there's not a lot to do otherwise.

Joel was confident enough to see what the role demanded and do what appeared to be nothing ... or very close to it.

His lack of emotion has less to do with being somewhat undead physically and more to do with being a little dead emotionally. Just being touched by death and living this weird life outside of society.

If he's too emotive then that takes the tension off the story IMHO. If we see this guy as warm or affectionate or able to express caring - then what's the obstacle to his and Easter's relationship.

So he pushes her away because he's dangerous to be around / lives this shadow life where he can't get close to people ... but she needs someone so badly and cares about him so much that he can't bring him self to shake her. He could obviously pick her little self up, and plant her on her fanny and lock the door.

Anyway -- I'm not explaining myself too well, but its kind of like in Remington Steel or Moonlighting - the series is over if the relationship is ever truly consimated despite how much these people care for each other. Consumation for these charaters would be admitting that they care about each other and need each other.

SPOILERS AHEAD - SKIP THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM

But instead we see him cold and saying that he doesn't want her in his life, but allowing her emotional access all the while.
Now the death specifically ... I might revisit that ... it could be that the lid could be let off a little more there and more could come out. But again you have to be very careful because often films - especially genre films - need the heros pain to go unreleived and often unexpressed in order for them to take action

this is why the Kurt Russle Tombstone/Wyat Erp movie is less successful to me than teh Kevin Costner version.

In Kurts' version when brother Bill Paxton is shot to death on a pull table, Kurt runs out into the street, falls to his knees in the rain, and cries like a biotch as the camrea cranes up to a birds eye.

Good for him -- very healthy. Now there's no reason to go on a ten person killing spree. Imagine Clint Eastwood having a nice weepy in Unforgiven -- not gonna happen because its his inability to channel pain into something besides a killing spree.

This is different of course because he's not going on a killing spree, he is instead sacrificing his life to save another - but again I think the cold resolve to go forward because he does care moved the story forward, where stopping for him to deal with his pain would have just been doing that for the sake of doing that.

So those are my reasons -- keep the tension by denying the character / audience the emotional release, and turn the pain in to something active.

Interesting that as a director, Clint tends to cut before people cry (with a few notable exceptions). He worked with Meril Streep and this was pissing her off. Just when she was getting to the weepies he would always say cut. Finally she asked him about it and he told her that as long as you are telling the story you don't need to show that and whatever the approriate emotional response for the audience is will be there.

I will say this however, you have changed my approach to making films from this point on. I did get a simmalr criticism I think (because both speak to the audience wanting a deeper emotional connection with the Characters) in Shed where I chose to render the mother and daughter somehwat anonymously to mirror the father's lack of emotional access to them.

What I'm going to change is to think of myself as overly confident in the effectiveness of withholding this emotional release from the audience, maybe I'm too cavalier about it ... so what I think I'll do from now on is just make sure I get a take both ways on the day whenever I'm at one of these crossroads.

But back to Joel -- again thankless role -- he has to wear shades the whole movie, be emotionally stunted, and is often not featured or has his appearance obscurred in the more acty dialogue scenes - he's scare lit in the first apt. scene, only shown from behind in the Mom scene, and lit almost in sihouette and not favored in the shot for the death scene - kind of pushing his character to the fringe. And again it takes a lot of confidence to do that - just be there and not try to over do it for the sake of being interesting for interesting's sake. I thought he did great.

WOW! That would be: WithOut Words

GREAT story and an amazing vision. This one will stay with me for a long time. Truly inspirational and humbling. I wish I could give feedback. Instead, it is you that have given!

Thanks!

That's nice to say man. I just want to be a filmmaker and want to make something the best it can be.

Wow wtf Jack.

That was NICE.

Your post camera action was more gratuitous than your violence and it actually didn't bother me one bit. It helped keep the quick pacing. And, well, I'm a sucker for post camera moves. The mechanical feeling, that's what I like.

Also, you guys used your adapters well. The DOF didn't feel ... how to put it ... added? Y'know? Like it's there because that's how a film/movie really is. Not "we used an adapter, can you tell?".

I also like the make-up going on, especially the "bone hand" lOl. I feel weird typing that.

Okay, the title is a little weird, different... and so is the actual bone hand concept but that's fine. It's something out of the ordinary.

The little girl's a great actor. Give her lots of money because cookies don't cut it for today's youth.

A complete short, it was.

Next contest, your title is mines. Just you wait.

Bone Hand is a wierd title -- could easily be a euphemism for something naughty. But I liked it inspite of that fact and couldn't think of something better - Death Hand? Dead Hand? lol Death THrower? Sould Hand? Soul Man? ... etc.

What do you mean nexy contest my title is yours ... are you going to give me the Dahopa Buckethead treatment?

Yes Jessie was a real find. I usually write for actors I know as I wrote bonehand for Joel. But I had this story in my head and just had to say screw it. I'm in New York. I have to be abale to find a good kid that can do this - just write the short already.

Leslie, the producer came up with Jessie from another project she was working on.

I auditioned Jessie fully expecting that i would have to cast a wider net after that (its seldom the first person you read for a role) but Leslie did a good job as casting director. I saw that Jessie could be natural and NOT act on camera within a few minutes and the audition process was over.

Dear Jack Daniel Stanley,

Please stop making films like this.

They make me feel very, very bad.

I am now going to go out and become a lawyer or something.

Or maybe an accountant.

*sniff*

(Jack Daniel Stanley: The devourer of dreams).

Bastard.

(I'll post a real review after I have recovered)
LMAO,
Are you kidding?
Buckethead was a flawless and funny perfectly executed parody.
...
I know you are joking, but I liked your movie too.

(hope to get to others soon ) :)

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-05-2006, 10:16 PM

update: two new bulletins added to the threads originating post

Brandon Rice

06-05-2006, 10:32 PM

Screenplay: Great! Loved how the story wrapped together with him having the power to save the girl.

Acting: The girl felt a little forced at times, but she’s a kid. All the supporting cast (thugs, etc.) were great too.

Cinematography: Some shots seemed a bit washed out, but I liked the look overall and the grittiness of the film. Good usage of adapters here as well.

Score: Not this piece’s strength, felt some of the rock riff’s were out of place, but most of it worked.

Overall: Great film, most tight piece I’ve seen so far.

Aaron Marshall

06-05-2006, 10:43 PM

and don't forget the Professional :) ... oh wait .. you said "Leon" ... right

Whoops, sorry that was a typo I made. That's what I meant. :)

Anyway -- I'm not explaining myself too well, but its kind of like in Remington Steel or Moonlighting - the series is over if the relationship is ever truly consimated despite how much these people care for each other. Consumation for these charaters would be admitting that they care about each other and need each other.

No, no I think you explained yourself perfectly. I liked reading your in-depth reasons why you did what you did. Very nice. Disregard my comment.

Outstanding film!!!!

Beat Takeshi

06-06-2006, 12:38 AM

This is the first time seeing this and there is some good and some bad.
I really liked the way the story came together and felt complete but the style and edits though were just like CPU from the last contest so it kind of felt ...i guess not so new. The color correction seemed to have taken out of the detail we manually put in in the living room scenes but thats a style choice. The transitions were cool and the post camera moves worked well also. I liked the editing and control of the audio bites. Some of the edits felt a bit rushed, especially in the beginning. The opening shot was nice and smooth and looking great but then it got all music videoish with the super fast cuts. It kind of disorientated me for a sec and I felt like I missed some of the shots.
You did a good job acting in the hallway scenes and I liked that he was all blurry eyed and couldnt see that it was you he killed. The edit on that was cool.
I liked when the mother called him a freak and he turns, the music cue there was cool. Good job and glad you made it in.

Matt Sconce

06-06-2006, 12:47 AM

I look forward to seeing it -- is the zip file up? A hunting I go ... Thanks man.

Thanks for wanting to watch it! It is on the mirror site.

I hope you like it.

Your movie has definitely inspired me for future projects, but I knew it would be good before I ever saw it. As I was saving for my DVX100b, I watched The Shed, and The Odd Squad. You had big shoes to fill (left by yourself ironically), and I believe you succeeded triumphantly. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

Edgen

06-06-2006, 01:14 AM

yea. I have to say I liked this one.

Most people hit the points and looks like i chimed in on the tail and glad to get some explanations.

My Thoughts:
I agree. The story came full circle. I wanted to stop and rewind a few times to see what was going on but I forced myself to watch all the way through first.
Was that a rat? (one of things I wanted to stop rewind)
I think it was great he was just walking along, threw the rat and kept on going.
I like the 'asian' and his sensless beating/revenge.
THugs had the comedic element.
The girl was pretty dang good. i was impressed. THere's probably a few things that could have been better.
Cinematography.. I felt... squeezed. There were a LOT of really tight shots and after watching I wanted to release my breath. That happened at the cemetary. The transition into the girl was perfect.. Until she stopped to turn her head and look. That was kinda over the top. Plus some reflections in the glasses?
The Score: Ah yes.. the score. I have to disagree with Brice on this one. I thought Herman's job was absolutely brilliant! It was smooth flowing, had great sounds, great elements and took you on an up and down roller coaster of emotions. My hads off to him on this one. Maybe the electric guitar riffs were a little too much over the top, but hey. It added to the grungy'ness of the film.
I did not like seeing the same hand footage at the end. Something else could have been there instead.
The VFX were perfect for the film. Not too over the top. Not cheesy. The 'jump off' was great and executed nicely, but had no point. (unless its your reason for him "letting himself go")

All in all... I'm really glad you decided to stay with this to the end. I think it pays off and congrats on the submission.

cheers!
/j

Matt Sconce

06-06-2006, 01:30 AM

The 'jump off' was great and executed nicely, but had no point. (unless its your reason for him "letting himself go")

I think this represented him falling into death so the little girl could live. A conscious inner suicide or release...? Maybe?

Edgen

06-06-2006, 01:32 AM

I think this represented him falling into death so the little girl could live. A conscious inner suicide or release...? Maybe?

ah yes.. that's what I was thinking too. but if he's a super hero he'd probably live from the fall no?

still, i see and feel the symbolism.

/j

Norm Sanders

06-06-2006, 02:17 AM

Jack, really enjoyed this one, but for me ODD SQUAD still holds the trump card over all your films. Just loved that one.

This one was a tad more difficult for me to follow with regards to the story. I thought the FX were GREAT, both tasteful and comp'd well into the shots.

The camera angles & editing were great, as well as the lighting. I didn't care for the lighting quite as much on the roof top, but that's probably my only lighting gripe.

Didn't really notice the score all that much (that can be a good thing) until the end ... then I thought, gee, that sounds familiar!

So here's my REAL question ... where's my "Special Thanks" credit for introducing you to Herman?! :) That last part where it jams fits perfectly, and has always been one of my favorites from the composers I've heard.

Great job, Jack. Really enjoyed the film.

Steve_Arm

06-06-2006, 02:39 AM

I haven't read the whole thread yet so my opinion is kind of independent.

Great movie, a bit fast but really good, gongrats Jack & your team.
Very amped intro, everything is showing clearly, how he takes his power, music has the right mood and with the fast editing and motion effects you show the hero's super powers.

What I didn't like was the girl been shot.... I almost cry dude... (yes I'm a father!), but you made up with the Hero giving his life. But again I find it very hard.

Great work again.

RDragonFilms

06-06-2006, 09:41 AM

Really great film, I got a chance to sit and watch it last night.. when I saw the little girl for some reason I thought " Curly Sue!!!! " Do you remember that film?

She ( Jessie ) was a cutie, and she did a wonderful job!! The ending was great as well, very Crow-ish

DarrenRyan

06-06-2006, 10:51 AM

Great Work. It's all been said already so I wont re-state anything. Amazing utilization of the time limit in terms of story. Really nice.

MojoTrancer

06-06-2006, 10:53 AM

This is the first one I watched cuz I knew I could start off with a good one. And i wasn't disappointed. The story has a lot of influences, but they're all good ones. And I liked the gun-POV when they're shooting through the door. I think I remember that from the beginning of Leon. It was cool as hell then and it's still cool in this.

Wasn't too keen on the girl, but maybe that's just me being too hard on child actors.

I think all the post work in the image was a bit much though. I just didn't feel like it fit the film.

The effects were top-notch. Very good work.

All things said, a great film, Dude. Thumbs and big toes up!

Palace Films

06-06-2006, 11:02 AM

Great work! I predict you to win this contest from what I have seen so far.

eyespy

06-06-2006, 11:14 AM

Well-done, JDStanley. I appreciate the fact that your film started, told, and completed an entire storyline in the time allotment.

Your child lead was good, especially since it can be such a struggle to work with child actors. Always room for improvement, but I would be proud of what she was able to produce. Especially when she coughed up blood. YUCK!

I was a little lost when it came to the "death transfer" flashes. I wasn't sure what was going on until image of your lead character's lifeless bone hand.

When I saw the image of the older girl walking back from the grave, I couldn't help but wonder if she, too, would have the same bone hand from the transfer. She was pale, cold, almost lifeless looking - enough for her very own bone hand.

Impressive work.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-06-2006, 11:37 AM

Very nice work Jack!

I loved the lighting, especially in the cemetary. Also like the peep-hole effects with the two goons on the other side; dunno why, just thought it looked great!

As said before, the young actress' acting was right on as well.

Nicely done my friend!!
thanks alot
as for the cymetary - amazing what a bounce board can do - and can't sometimes :)

Maybe you guys are going to hate me or think I'm an idiot — but I need to say how I feel:

I don't get what all the hype is about.

It just didn't do it for me. first let me say thanks for your honest criticism

There were some good points, yes:
1. I think the story was interesting, with the idea of a scarifice and all.
2. I liked the little girl's acting for the most part.
3. Color was nice
4. Good locations.
5. I liked knowing at the end that the girl was still visiting the grave when she was older.

But there are just some things I can't get past:

1. I don't like those stuttery camera movements as transitions. It's hard to even explain. It's just too choppy and distracting.
2. Did the little girl smile before she spit the blood out of her mouth?
Sort of. Its a bitters sweet kind of complex moment. She's just made a joke on her death bead. "I should have gone home" for his benefit. She doesn't know she's gonna spit up blood then and the camera isn't on her until mid spit - so I assume that's the moment you mean because its not on her "right" before she spits.

3. The white face. SciFest it was a blue face. It just seems too contrived. I know it's bone hand and all, so maybe he's dead, but it still seemed out of place. Kind of funny that I get dinged for having extreme imaginative characters and images in GENRE contests such as Sci Fi and Hero ... I did think in ODD Squad the Blue Mutant and Red Mutans might have been too cartoony and thusly undercut the stakes of the piece - but still a very pale dude that's parly dead and just wears normal clothes -- that's harder to take than spandex? Why the hell would anyone wear spandex :cheesy:

4. The beginning didn't fit in with the rest of the story for me. It could have started with the girl on the rooftop and had the same storyline. This is the one thing I would heartily disagree with you about (especially from a guy who starts is his short in nearly structurally identical manner) In your piece you show us the hero in action and then tell us what he does.

Starting a piece in this genre by verbally explaining what the character does just seems like and awful idea. The axiom with film is SHOW not tell. This type of opening is called a TEASER -- you know like in Indiana Jones and about billion other movies. Also very common in James Bond. The Opening Scene of Indiana Jones has nothiing to do with the rest of the movie in terms of what his objective is in that scene. The scene is there to establish the character IN ACTION and SHOW what they can do in a brief and exciting fashion which hooks you promises more of the same only better and more intense etc.

But to start a HERO film with just talking about what he does ... that's not a movie, that's a play ... and a bad one.

But seriously this is very common and like Indiana Jones - one of the bad guys is also established.

SPOILER ALERT

In fact you could say it has everything to do with the story -- because that's how she gets killed.

Would the story make sense without the first scene? Yes. And so would Indiana Jones, and every James bond movie. But I was not about to withhold some good action from the guys on this site :thumbsup: and lame out with a dialogue discriptionm of what he does ....

you might rethink this and get back to me and let me know if you REALLY think that it would have been better to not show him getting the death from the rat and how he used it etc.

When we get to the dialogue scene where things are explained - its more interesting because the first scene sets up the questions that are answered in the second scene.

If I start with the roof scene, then I'm just telling the audience stuff for the sake of telling them and hopefully they will file it away and find it interesting.

If I show them something interesting that raises questions, then they are more hooked and enjoy / are invested in the expositional scene that follows.

I don't mean to be harsh, but I wanted to be honest in how I felt. Not at all man ... I hope you take my rebuttal on one or two points as spirited debate -- you're comments were entirely approriate. The stuttery transitions is something new I'm trying. I think I went too far in a couple of areas and I'm gonna tone down slightly for the DVD.

I guess I just don't see what everybody is so amazed about. I think the filming is good, the camerawork and directing are good, and overall you put together a good piece. which somehow totally sucks evidently, LOL, :laugh: but thanks for the DP nod especially, as your film is lit great. I think it has my highest score in lighting and I think maybe camera too at this point.

But when I read these posts BEFORE I watched the film, and then watched the film, I was honestly let down.

Sorry for the criticism, I hope it's taken the right way.

Again, thanks for taking the time.

Seriously JDS, I've seen it three times now, and each time I promise myself I'm going to watch for the FX work, but I get too wrapped up in the story and I forget all about it.

I'm going to go curl up in my sock drawer and sleep for days.

LOL :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

i'm really glad you decided to stay in ! this film was as great as your previous ones. the visual style (costumes, actors, fx) all worked very well together and suceeded in creating a great feeling and atmosphere!

Alex
Thanks, I'm glad it worked for you. We made this with no money and did our best to improvise and come up with consistent art direction and a unified piece even as the aesthetic evolved daily based on our resources.

thanks for the comments, one and all,

- Jack

Blaine

06-06-2006, 12:20 PM

Jack, as usual a fine movie. Personally, I liked The ODD Squad better, but I think a lot of that has to do with the lead actor and the hard boilded VO.

On this one, I was particularly pleased that you told the story without having to resort to VO to get your idea across. It was totally appropriate in The ODD Squad and it was great that you didn't use it here.

Technically, I thought you did a very good job. Loved the cinematography. You had an engaging story that was complete and had a payoff. The acting was good. Jessie Artemis Baum did a good job overall. A couple of times I "felt" her acting but damn, I shouldn't be nitpicking that. Considering her age and the difficulty of working with children, then requiring her to have to carry such a large portion of the movie...you done good, pilgram :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

The symbolism of him "falling" to his death to save her was excellent. Man, did Joel Isreal remind me of Tim Matheson.

The payoff scene in the cemetary was well executed. I have to disagree with an earlier post concerning the use of the white makeup. I think it was spot on for a character balanced somewhere between life and death.

The only negative thing I have to say about this movie are the shots right after Bone Hand saves Easter. When she "wakes up" the cutting is disorienting and actually pulled me out of the story. At the 4:33 mark the jump cut feels like a mistake or continuity error. Personally, I'd have liked to seen that scene pulled off smoother. It would have made for a more emotionally touching scene. I've gone back and rewatched the movie twice and still feel the same way about this scene. It's just my opinion, you are the filmmaker and as such the decision on how to tell your story is your prerogative. Jeesh, everyone's a critic.

J.R. Hudson

06-06-2006, 01:34 PM

The level of competition this fest is pretty slim which leaves only a couple serious challengers for my vote. This being one of them ...

One surprise is seeing films with no obvious SUPERHERO but instead with Ninja's and dude's with Gun's, gay guy's wrastlin' in an apartment, gangster's, private eye's -- What the fuck ?

Prop's to those who actually made an attempt to create a comicbook hero.

I am a big fan of JDS's work; starting with Shed and fast culminating with THE ODD SQUAD which was so fun and perfect. I was very eager to see what was offered up here with Herofest.

One thing I truly enjoy with the usual suspect's in these fest's is seeing growth from the DVXuser filmmakers; from Zombiefest to Scifest to Herofest and those who participated in all 3 the growth is mostly evident.

However, on this short I found it, not a step back from The Odd Squad, but more so a lateral move. Something tells me JACK's next short may just be a Quantam LEap forward in development and skill.

I love your style in the cutting room but at times feel it abused in this short. For ODD, the manic hyperreal cutting style worked with the 70's funk play but here it was a distraction. Just when I settled on a nice composition or moment in the piece, it changed on me. I kept saying 'Jeez Jack, slow down!'. It was as if there was a lacking confidence is staying with a shot more than a few seconds like today's music video's.

I really enjoyed the slower scenes; the man and woman talking in apartment doorway, the child and man on couch. This is when I felt we were let into your world. You do action nicely but at times it feels to rushed. Like 'Bam! Slap! Crunk!' and then it's over before it began.

I'm torn on the kid. The kid is not a bad actress, but unless one is Haley Joel Osment or Dakota Fanning, kid's just usually do not have the required range to pull off drama and that is the case here. Not horrible, but I would probably shy from putting any kid's in my film's if possible.

I love the use of many locations. You suceeded in creating a world for me from the wonderfully opening shot in the alley, to the apartment building, the rooftops and the cemetary. I love when the filmmaker 'Get's out of the apartment'

Not sure if you planned on rain but that served the atmosphere greatly; lucky you! Probably a pain in the arse that day of shooting but be grateful for the asthetic it created!

The score is not only great but it appears custom on top of that. The cue's are spot on and the mood serves unlike some of the other films where it sounds like a soundtrack score laid on top of the film where they just do not jive with what is on screen and way over the top.

In closing; this short is the best of the bunch. Usually I reserve my highest vote for the single film that entertains me the most; for Zombiefest I gave my 10 to The Laughing Dead, for SCIFEST I gave my 10 to We Are Not Alone . I personally found Dahopa Film's SIMILO parody to entertain me more than this one, but am going to reserve my 10 for this piece anyway's for technically being superior to the other films in terms of photography, score, sound design, set's, location's and talent.

Nice job Jack. I liked ODD SQUAD much better, but think the lack of challenger's this go around may give a Wild Card and there is nothing wrong with that. You have the real film chops. You bastard. You inspire me as well as challenge my own inner drive. Damn it.

In short; I'd like to see you slow down and have more confidence visually and in your pacing.

Mark Harris

06-06-2006, 01:54 PM

Jack,

I thought the girl who is NOT ACTUALLY Aram's daughter was amazing. The best thing in the movie. Remember when we talked about actors vs. non-acotrs? To me, she had such a wonderful simplicity and directness to her performance. Like most kids. I disagree with hudson about kids like HJO and Dakota Fanning. To me, those kids overact soooo much that they don't come off as kids at all, but just as very short actors (ewwwww).

Anyway, if I had one criticism, it would be that I saw the end coming as soon as the girl came on screen. I had the same thing happen when I saw Odd Squad.

Maybe I've just seen too many movies.

I think it's part of your power as a filmmaker, that you have such a strong grasp of the basics of movie storytelling, that your work comes off as extremely professional. I just get the feeling that the situations, characters, etc. are a little stock. 5 min is not enough time to really get under their skins and make the JOURNEY of the story yours own. That make sense?

Again, that is SUPER nit-picky and it might just be me, and maybe I'm just pissed off that you didn't let me come work on it too. :)

However, I have spent pretty much all day cursing your name and swearing I will not release my next short until it's at least this good. Bastid.

P.S. - Nice roof, Shawn.

P.P. S. - Sorry, Aram.

J.R. Hudson

06-06-2006, 02:07 PM

Jack,

I thought Aram's daughter was amazing. The best thing in the movie. Remember when we talked about actors vs. non-acotrs? To me, she had such a wonderful simplicity and directness to her performance. Like most kids. I disagree with hudson about kids like HJO and Dakota Fanning. To me, those kids overact soooo much that they don't come off as kids at all, but just as very short actors (ewwwww).

Respectfully disagreed. But ...

What ? Fanning overact's ? Do you even have kid's ? Are they like little Zombie children ? I have a 6 year old and this kid is not some simpleton in terms of emotion.

In fact, I just coached a season of T-Ball and these 5-6 year old's are not simplistic at all; direct maybe, but that's a whole nutha' trait.

When I see Dakota in action I see true talent

Anyway's. No disrespect was intended to Aram's daughter (Oppressor know's that) but my theory with actor's is either you can or you can't. 'Kind of' acting always comes up short.

Matt Sconce

06-06-2006, 02:09 PM

Mark Harris

06-06-2006, 02:25 PM

Respectfully disagreed. But ...

What ? Fanning overact's ? Do you even have kid's ? Are they like little Zombie children ? I have a 6 year old and this kid is not some simpleton in terms of emotion.

In fact, I just coached a season of T-Ball and these 5-6 year old's are not simplistic at all; direct maybe, but that's a whole nutha' trait.

When I see Dakota in action I see true talent

Anyway's. No disrespect was intended to Aram's daughter (Oppressor know's that) but my theory with actor's is either you can or you can't. 'Kind of' acting always comes up short.

Yeah, well you think Titanic is like the greatest movie ever, so I'll take your "theory of acting" with a grain of salt. :)

I liked the kid's performance, what the hell do you want from me?

J.R. Hudson

06-06-2006, 02:32 PM

Don't take it personal mang; it's just an opinion

Anyway's Beaatch

I said:

I'm torn on the kid. The kid is not a bad actress ...

Mark Harris

06-06-2006, 02:36 PM

Don't take it personal mang; it's just an opinion

Anyway's Beaatch

I said:

I'm just fucking with you. Don't want to thread-jack, so...

J.R. Hudson

06-06-2006, 02:39 PM

It's cool. Sides' in the end, I'm alway's right anyway.

:laugh:

Larry Rutledge

06-06-2006, 02:46 PM

(Note: I have not read most of the responses yet, until I had a chance to write mine...didn't want to be unfairly influenced )

I really enjoyed this film, it was amazing how much story you got in such a short period of time. It never felt like it drug and every piece of "storytelling" seemed to be long enough for me to catch all of it. Their is so much story told that I remember at one point thinking surely this is going over 6 minutes, but when I looked down and saw the bar at under 3 minutes at the halfway mark I was really impressed.

The special effects were top notch, you did a great job integrating them into the film. They fit in as a part of the story and not simply slapped on to impress. I liked the "death" coming into his hands, the smoke looked very fluid and realistic and seemed like it was really there and not just drawn on with the computer.

The framing of the shots was superb...I love the opening shot of the guy biking down the alley...looks really cool. And the coloring all seemed to fit well and help tell the story. The alley way had a bit of a blue-tint to it, made everything a little moody and sinister. Later in the apartment the colors are more rich and full, giving a sense of real life.

The sound was really good, I liked that I could hear all the dialog and it didn't sound like it came from Uncle Billy's camcorder on-board mic. It was full and rich sounding. The ambient noise (rain, etc) and the sound fx were all really clear and well mixed to not overpower the film.

I didn't personally care for the portions of the score that were rock sounding. It fits the story ok, but I'm just not personally a big fan of that type of score.

The story was complete and had a great hook at the end for BoneHand 2 :)

The acting, overall, was pretty good...but not outstanding. I think everyone did a good job, but the only one that left me feeling like I wasn't watching an actor was BoneHand. The others never fully became their character and I never forgot that they were someone else that existed outside of the world you created.

Overall a great job, I'm glad you were able to complete it in time to enter. That is a lot of work to have completed and then be shut out. Thanks for sharing this film, I really enjoyed it.

Peace,
Larry

Matt Sconce

06-06-2006, 02:52 PM

I would love to find out how you did the smoke effects from the deaths and all. I enjoyed them a lot and wish i could do effects like that in the future....BTS coming?

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-06-2006, 02:56 PM

Matt Sconce

06-06-2006, 03:06 PM

Hey guys ... I'm kind of surprised.

I know I threw a few things in at the last minute that make the openning too jumpy, and they are just a few things but they make a lot of difference in terms of crossing that line of edgey vs. disorienting ...

But I'm surprised to hear people say that they liked ODD Squad better.

To me this film has so many more levels and is exeucted better and has fewer false notes and more varierty of pacing - though I think I did go overboard and hope I can tweak to fix even though the cut has been locked to the music etc.

I really think (thought?) this was my best film yet. I would rank them as follows
1) Bone Hand (only pulling ahead of Shed for technical reasons and scope of story)
2) Shed (the most honest/real of the three ... also the simplest)
3) ODD Squad (lots of fun with the most moments that just miss the mark in terms of performance and execution - and the least emotional impact of the three)

Shed was my first time out and my only film and I thought maybe it was good and I was pretty proud of it. ODD Squad I was a little dissapointed in. But this one I was really proud of and thought was the best of the bunch.

*sigh*

http://www.smileys.ws/smls/sad/00000016.gif

I absolutely think Bone Hand was the best of the bunch. I also agree with your ranking. I thought Shed was better than Odd Squad, but that this new one trumped them all. It was much more epic, and I loved the story and lighting. I also thought the effects were top notch. If I was going to put money down to purchase one, I would buy Bone Hand. If I were to invest in one for a feature....It would be Bone Hand. I wish i had made it...hehe.:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

I remember back when i watched the Shed, and saw the BTS, I decided I had to have a DVX. I saved for a year after seeing it and finally got the DVX100b. I kind of understand how you must have felt when you entered the Shed in Zombiefest, as Nine to Five Ninja, is our first attempt at narrative film. I will be interested to see your review. :thumbsup:

J.R. Hudson

06-06-2006, 03:25 PM

Don't fret Jack !

Sometimes the audience know's better than the artist (being removed emotionally, ya know?).

I hope you do not mistake any criticism as nothing but your peers really caring about the work you created. It is the best of the bunch, but when I see you raising bar's, you expect that bar to keep going.

In the professional world, there are very few great filmmaker's working with most of them never able to raise that bar into greatness no matter how good a filmmaker they are.

I really look forward to your next piece; as I think it may be a slam dunk. I also want to emphasize that this kicked major arse; major tail.

The in-depth deconstruction from me comes from liking it that much. Make sense ?

-

You are a true inspiration to me. I am humble at your drive and being a filmmaker and not yappin about it.

Mark Harris

06-06-2006, 03:52 PM

yeah, I'm with Hudson on this one, Jack. I really am sitting here, working on the post for my next short, and telling myself: Make it as good as Jack's.

Plus, I am planning a couple of dramatic shorts for later in the year, and the same thought is buzzing in my head constantly: I gotta get them as good as THAT GUY.

Anthem78

06-06-2006, 04:02 PM

I agree with John, too. We are all in this to get better. That's why we're here. If we were masters we would be in the middle of an 18-month production in New Zealand. Anyway, good job. Criticism only makes us better.

CineMark

06-06-2006, 04:13 PM

Jack:

Thanks for taking the criticism the right way, and I hope there are no hurt feelings. And I appreciate you responding to it. Your a good man for that.

So since I don't know how to do those fancy broken quotes, here are my responses to your questions (numbered how they were in your post):

3. The white face. Don't get me wrong, I do understand why this hero had a white face with his undead(?) state. It's just on the last one it was blue faces, now white, which made me wonder if in the next it would be green or something. Maybe just seeing it back to back didn't do it for me (in 2 subsequent JDS flicks).
But I do consider it appropriate for this character.

4. I'll have to agree with you on the beginning. I guess to get specific maybe it focused more on the criminal and the victim and only gave us a glimpse of the hero, so maybe it just wasn't enough in my opinion. Like Hudson, I enjoy a slower pace, where we can really get to see who we're dealing with and understand the situation. So maybe the intro was too rushed for me. I guess this is why in our film we purposefully slowed the pace down. But to each his own, and obviously John found yours the better piece in his opinion.
So again, I'll take back what I said about the intro not fitting.

And I DO take your rebuttal as a spirited debate: bring it on brother! Seriously, I enjoy this type of discussion more than any other part of this forum. CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Just one filmmaker helping another out and vise versa.

So keep up the good work, and so will we!

Thanks again for all your good responses.

capitalP

06-06-2006, 04:14 PM

Just saw this Jack! I must say the cinematography is awesome... the action sequences was nice, the only problems I have were with the actors... not the Bone Hand, but the two guys in the alleyway.. and though she is only a little girl, I hate to say, her acting kind of took me out the story, specially the spitting the blood scene, I actually laugh when i saw that, that scene was suppose to be emotional, but it made me laugh...

And I thought the story was ok... But the look of the film is incredible, cool FX.. though I haven't seen Shed, I must say ODD Squad IMO is the best I've seen from you(Story, acting, FX, cinematagraphy) ODD Squad had it all, not to take anything away from this film, the look of it was Awesome, it kind of lacked in other things, nontheless you're a great film maker... Keep up the good work..

Now I have to go see the rest of the stuff to cast my vote..

Anybody know when is the deadline to vote?

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-06-2006, 06:05 PM

Don't get me wrong guys its not about the constructive criticicism.

I don't think my movie is perfect and don't resent others pointing out its imperfections, whether or not Cinemark thinks that bonehand should have whiteface or not (disagree) or as others have commented, that the pace of the editing is pushed to far in some places (agree).

It's more about my personal mark and thinking I had taken a big step forward to learn that I was treading water.

I just thought that I had beaten myself (no Bone Hand jokes please) and not just by a little bit. And after two contests of second place I've now come in second place against myself too (with ODD Squad being 1st place).

While these films cost almost nothing in terms of $ (less than 500), they are just too expensive and taxing in many other areas to not move foreward and the possibiilty that I have not done so is pretty discouraging.

It helps to put it in John's perspective that great filmmakers out there making real films seldom make great ones (although part of me says then why bother), but it helps a little.

J.R. Hudson

06-06-2006, 06:15 PM

Whoa whoa whoa

I firmly believe you have the real chops Jack. I feel that away about very few people on this site (Rich, You, Curugon). This is your 3rd short ever ? (I do not count the America one)

This is not treading water. This is hands down the best. What I meant earlier was that was NO Curugon or KAZ or SIMILO too challenge you in this fest (IMO).

I do not think you have found yourself yet in terms of style and artistry but think that you have the real goods to be a filmmaker. You gotta keep studying though and polishing that rock.

-

I just watched Bonehand again with my 6 year old and he loved it; he was very concerned when Aram's daughter got shot and then asked for more! (I made him watch ODD again; he likes that one)

-

Anyway's

Horrorfest is next. I am afraid.

Blaine

06-06-2006, 06:21 PM

I wouldn't exactly call what you've done, treading water. You've done some different things in Bone Hand. You've added to your skills set. It is a very good movie. I just felt it didn't surpass The ODD Squad, imo.

Kirk Gillock

06-06-2006, 06:57 PM

Jack - I liked this one much better than Odd Squad. This one made me want to see the full length feature version of the story. It was perfect. The only problem I had with it was the acting of one of the thugs who came to the door. Hang on, let me go see what his name is... BRB.

Oh, nevermind. He was good too. :) lol

Great stuff (once again) Jack. Good luck!

MattinSTL

06-06-2006, 06:59 PM

I just watched BH and I freakin' loved it... definitely a more complete story then Odd. I would put this one above Odd easily... got to disagree with the others there. I think the little girl was a better actor then the young man mutant in Odd...

Honestly the reason I've kind of dropped back from the fests is because I want to do something worthwhile... and seeing your level of skill (and the others mentioned by JH) means that until I'm ready to compete I don't have much interest in being a total "also ran".

To be considered a good filmmaker you have to be at least semi-consistently good... nobody has great respect for one-hit wonders... and yeah, the community is friggin' critical... but considering you are consistently hitting them off the far wall if not over it... I sure wouldn't beat yourself up on opinionated details.

I kinda' got choked up at the end of your flick... it hit some buttons for me that these festival shorts rarely even get close to.

So is that still 2:35 or are you secretly wanting to evolve to "banner-boxing"?

HorseFilms

06-06-2006, 08:06 PM

Fantastic stuff, Jack! Great idea and brilliant execution. Top notch, sir.:beer:

TimurCivan

06-06-2006, 08:48 PM

Actually just watched it for the first time since it was about Half way done.

I am pleased. Its solid. And while has a few small quirks, i just think, of it as a super hero comic book and forgive. ( i mean cmon, not everypanel of a comic book is always a masterpiece of composition....)

Great editing work Jack. You have changed the way i think about editing after watching you in action.

Best of Luck!

Wow wtf Jack.

Also, you guys used your adapters well. The DOF didn't feel ... how to put it ... added? Y'know? Like it's there because that's how a film/movie really is. Not "we used an adapter, can you tell?".

WE used the adapters on everytake to make sure the feeling and charachter of the adapter matched thorugh the whole move.

If i remeber correctly only the opening shot and the Closing shots were without Adapters.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-06-2006, 09:03 PM

haha :cheesy:

It's all good.

Thanks for letting me have a hallmark moment, guys.

John I appreciate your comments and thanks for the clarifications.

It's all subjective I guess, and not like I can measure my personal level of success in averages, inches, or points like an athelete can.

I hope other people feel free to make negative critcisms -- just to be super clear I appreciate those comments as much if not more than pats on the back.

I was just bummed because I didn't feel like I hit the mark that I wanted to hit.

I do know that I made huge strides during the production process balancing tech while focusing on work with the actors, and generally knowing what I was doing on set a little better with shot lists and stuff.

My secret plan was to get PK to say he liked it in the thread rather than just in a PM :evil:

MattinSTL ... NOW it feels like DVXuser fest. You were a HUGE part of Zombie fest for me and SCI fest didn't feel the same without you.

Like me, you're too hard on your own work - the chills were well crafted in your Zombiefest offering and if the next one is horror then you gotta suit up!

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-06-2006, 09:12 PM

TIMUR, BUDDY :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

Great to see you here.

Guys TIMUR was the hero of my hero fest.

Motherfocker was there every single day and take and he and I shot everything except the roof and inside Bone Hand's Apartment where aram also shot.

I'd say 70% of the footage was Timur behind the camera.

And the rain shoot. Timur and I were sick for a week after that.

The actors could get in the car and warm up between takes. But we were out in it the whole time and looked literally like we had jumped in a swimming pooll with our clothes on.

With the Wind Chill due to being soaked it was 35 degrees out for us.

As soon as we wrapped that shoot we both just started shivering because the adrenaline of getting through it dropped down.

I've never worked with anyone as eager and willing to contribute of their time and talent to do whatever needed to be done to make the best movie possible and while soaking up (no pun intended) everything he could but also offering very significant creative and aesthetic contributions.

Wouldn't be half the movie it was without him (if it even got finished)

And also he's the reason the camera feels much heavier in this flick than my other work where the camera is very light and flies around alot.

So he did a good job of "acting" like a big expensive movie camera.

:beer:

TimurCivan

06-06-2006, 09:16 PM

And also he's the reason the camera feels much heavier in this flick than my other work where the camera is very light and flies around alot.

So he did a good job of "acting" like a big expensive movie camera.

:beer:

That called " im tired".......

Haha joking.

Thanks for the kind words man!

( and i only melted 1 crucial tape in the dryer...!)
:D

Kirk Gillock

06-06-2006, 09:23 PM

Jack - ha! I actually tried posting something yesterday (after the PM :) ) but as I hit "Post" nothing happened. I then found out my Internet was cut-off. I then found out I hadn't paid in almost two months. I then paid and found out it would be 24 hours before the Internet graced my life again. I then found out I'm addicted to the Internet. :(

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-06-2006, 09:26 PM

...

Also, you guys used your adapters well. The DOF didn't feel ... how to put it ... added? Y'know? Like it's there because that's how a film/movie really is. Not "we used an adapter, can you tell?". ...

...

WE used the adapters on everytake to make sure the feeling and charachter of the adapter matched thorugh the whole move.

If i remeber correctly only the opening shot and the Closing shots were without Adapters.

The rain shoot was all stock lens.

Wanted to make that shoot as quick and easy as possible and use auto focus when we had to.

Also the almost infinite stock lens was probably the best choice anyway.

the rooftop was two 35mm adaptors for the closeups and an anamorphic for the two shot so we could get maximum detail in teh city background.

The background behind her closeup is composited from a random shot Aram got with the anamorphic of the sky line and then a blur was added to that composited background in post.

Also the shot of their hands is conposited on a background shot on the anamorphic.
The sky was just black behind them so I used a luma key. The compositing in the girls cloesup was done with a diamond shaped matte.

picking up the glove scene = stock lens

Mom in the hallway scene = one DVX with 35mm

Inside Bone Hand's apartment = two DVX with 35mm

Hallway fight scene

shot through the keyhole (which was composited of course) was shot with teh 35mm
all other shots in the fight scene were the stock lens, except for
the wide shot of the three of them, me and John dead and Joel stepping over me was a century wide angle (we just couldn't get back far enough to get the shot otherwise.death scene apartemnt = two DVXes with 35mm

Roof dream sequence / power transferrence = stock lens

Cymetary = 35 mm for everything except the wide shot where she walks towards camera. We used the anamorphic for that to maximize detail in the cymetary AND because that shot was shot at 60i for 24p slow mo so we were hoping the anamorphic would retain some of teh clarity there when deinterlaced.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-06-2006, 09:27 PM

...

( and i only melted 1 crucial tape in the dryer...!)
:D

lol -- I gotta see if my GF's camera has batteries in it so I can put a pictur of that online ... hold on.

TimurCivan

06-06-2006, 09:30 PM

I think you were trying somethign new.

Some people complained about the editing feeling rushed, but the scale of this project was 10% too big, for the 5 minute mark. so it was trimmed to the smallest sleekest, most stream lined movie possible. While this is usually a good thing, this film also had a distincitve Noir flavour ( thanks to Aram and mother nature) which needs a slower pace, to develop.

The post edits, like pans and crops and zooms, i feel, were for the most part pretty good. I was not even aware that you could do these things. I literally was Flabberghasted when isaw the rough cut, and shots that I SHOT MYSELF, were suddenly panning..... and looked amazingly lively. i kinda couldnt figure out how it was done till jack showed me.

The footage is "good" but the post production work, made it sing. However i agree with aram in that alot of the small details were lost in the indoor scene. But thats how the cookie crumbles in editing. oh well :)

This film was made Almost purely on Donated time. And i thnk we maximized what we had avaialbe. Whether it was the guy who screamed "That will never be in the tribeca film festival" as we were shooting the Dead rat scene or the look on jacks face as he returned from Evolution ( a store that sells nature stuff) with a freeze dried rat..... FOR FREE. ( nice work there jack) i had alot of fun, and learned alot.

Thanks for the oppertunity to show what i can do JAck.

-Timur

capitalP

06-06-2006, 09:32 PM

TimurCivan

06-06-2006, 09:32 PM

shoot i forgot all that was stock lens.

OK i guess im a douchebag and a liar to boot! ( inside joke)

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-06-2006, 10:20 PM

.... You're never gonna make everybody happy, remember that!

I know of this of course, but I don't KNOW this. Na wha I mean mang? I still try every time and hope for it though its completely irrational. :cheesy:

Mark Harris

06-06-2006, 10:23 PM

I know of this of course, but I don't KNOW this. Na wha I mean mang? I still try every time and hope for it though its completely irrational. :cheesy:

By the way, just wanted to add, if you could like really fuck up every now and then, I'd feel better about myself.

:)

M

Blaine

06-06-2006, 10:31 PM

Jack,

You DO realize the pressure you're putting yourself under, don't you? 3 for 3. The pressure's mounting already for HorrorFest :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG) :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-06-2006, 10:31 PM

...The post edits, like pans and crops and zooms, i feel, were for the most part pretty good. I was not even aware that you could do these things. I literally was Flabberghasted when isaw the rough cut, and shots that I SHOT MYSELF, were suddenly panning..... and looked amazingly lively. i kinda couldnt figure out how it was done till jack showed me.

The footage is "good" but the post production work, made it sing...

there are three changes I made to the openning rain sequence that pushed it to far.
1 - dropped in a close up of the delivery boy over "where's the money chink" when it was just the low angle wide shot of the thugs legs and stick with the deilvery boy on the ground, which is the next shot it cuts to now. so that was a longer shot of that one angle -- when I look at it now in light of comments - this is the first place I feel like "whoa what's going on"
2/3 - during the two cuts of the thugs line "you and your chink boss gotta pay insurance just like every other gook on the block" and the delivery boy's close up in between, i added some shakey snap zooms that are booty. I was trying to emphasize "chink" and "gook" for the sake of the punchline "chink and gook very different dumbass"

there's a couple of other things that are perhaps too tight but the rest I stand by as getting the effect I want

But I guess those couple of elements when taken with the rest do add up to too much.

A good example of the post camer work is the camera movement in the opening shot of the delievery boy riding the bike. That shot was still originally and reframed and blown up in post with motion added.

Brandon Rice

06-07-2006, 10:01 AM

ok, I have read a lot of critique on here, and I want to just say I love all you've done here Jack... the editing for me fit the film... the only qualm I really have is SOME of the little girls acting, and I realize how hard it is to get great actors... I love this film and its in my top 3 for sure!

J.R. Hudson

06-07-2006, 12:28 PM

A question: Is there a professional decision why you decided to use racial slang at the start of the film, and then move into the shot of a young child? Maybe this is just my opinion, but this didn't seem to flow (the move from sheer ignorance to innocence?).

Are you serious ? It was an opening action scene where Bonehand is introduced and saves the dude from being bullied. Is it that complicated to understand ?

Isaac_Brody

06-07-2006, 12:28 PM

No personal attacks please. I deleted the crap. Let's try and keep things productive and on topic.

WilderWorks

06-07-2006, 12:37 PM

:( Things were just about to get crazy-go-nuts!

Brandon Rice

06-07-2006, 12:47 PM

No personal attacks please. I deleted the crap. Let's try and keep things productive and on topic.

thanks Isaac.

WilderWorks

06-07-2006, 12:56 PM

Are you serious ? It was an opening action scene where Bonehand is introduced and saves the dude from being bullied. Is it that complicated to understand ?

I think the question regarding the racism in the opening is apt -- when selecting the defining incident that will show Bone Hand to us, why racism? Why street violence? How does it relate to his power, to his purpose, to the sacrifice he's about to make in the story?

Sure, it can simply mean, "He's badass and sticks up for the weak." It could simply demonstrate what we already know about super heroes. But it could also mean more, it could integrate meaningfully into the story as a whole. The opening scene could resonate in the last scene. And perhaps it does. But how?

While we lavish praise, we must also increase our expectations.

J.R. Hudson

06-07-2006, 12:57 PM

I believe you may be reading into it a bit. Perhaps Jack can elaborate on this plot point for us ?

I see it as simply an introduction; the race card being pulled out is inconsequential and nothing to panic about. It could have been a (Insert bad guy) .....

Why read into it ?

Jack ?

WilderWorks

06-07-2006, 01:05 PM

I have no problem with the racist comments AT ALL. I would "read into" absolutely any introduction, absolutely any scene, and would encourage everyone to do the same. That's what making a film is about, that's why you choose to film certain scenes instead of one of the infinite other possible scenes. Everything should serve everything else. Everything should have something to say. If you don't read into it, you've not given it a chance to speak.

J.R. Hudson

06-07-2006, 01:09 PM

Sure ! If you say so. :laugh: :beer:

-

Kirk Gillock

06-07-2006, 01:11 PM

The only problem I had with the opening sequence was the editting. I had to watch it twice to figure out what was happening. I couldn't figure out where the villain was in relation to Bone Hand. It was too quick, but maybe that's just me and my old eyes.

Jarred Land

06-07-2006, 01:11 PM

play nice kids...

Brandon Rice

06-07-2006, 01:13 PM

ah... I gotta say PK... I dug the editing :) I love the quick flashy stuff and figured out what was going on... the few people I showed figured it out pretty quick too :) I'm digging it...

J.R. Hudson

06-07-2006, 01:32 PM

I felt the editing to much/manic for me at times. I believe the true langauge of cinema is having the confidence to not move on or cut but by controlling the mis-en-scene and letting go the trigger.

arielman

06-07-2006, 01:41 PM

Well Jack you made another great one !!..

Wow how did I miss that racisim thing ....all I saw was a bad dude .

Really enjoyed it Jack.
Ian

Blaine

06-07-2006, 01:47 PM

Okay, I've had to watch the opening scene a couple of times to see what all the fuss was about.

Regarding cutting... I'm okay with the cutting but I can see where it could be confusing. Personally, I think that comes from not really establishing where Bone Hand is at the time of the attack on the delivery boy. Because we go from a fairly close shot of the pipe swing, to a close shot of the fallen bicycle to a close shot on Bone Hand, it's not initially obvious that he's not right there. Just an observation.

Regarding the choice of the opening scene: I feel it sets Bone Hand up well. He's a superhero that helps the "weak." It also introduces us to his "power." He uses a rat's death to blind the attacker. This serves as a visual example of what he tells Easter later, that it takes a human death for him to kill someone with his power. By inference we are also led in the direction, that it will also take a human death to save a human life, leading directly to the payoff of him sacrificing himself to "save" Easter.

Brandon Rice

06-07-2006, 01:51 PM

good observations Blaine... agreed....

MattinSTL

06-07-2006, 02:21 PM

Okay I've watched this little short several dozen times... and I'm starting to get pissed... I printed out stills for each frame and I've completely wallpapered my entire house in this movie frame by frame... sometimes I can get all the way through the house with just one double half-caff latte... some of the stills look like a John Madden football analysis... I'm especially proud of those.

My friends say I shouldn't be so critical... that maybe I should just watch it and enjoy it as the lone standout this time around... what do they know anyway... what do they know... hmm.

I'm almost thinking we should unleash hell on all the flicks... if the detail brush is the right tool for this one I think the Wagner Power Painter should be used on some others.

Jeez I forgot to mention that this flick here gave me goosebumps... (I know I said this before)... but c'mon this one was damn good (once again)... it seems weird shaving it down into tiny choices... to achieve "perfection" in a short would take SO much time, energy, and $$$ that even a new DVX wouldn't be a good enough prize.

I think the over-analysis of the best entries probably distills the fun 100% out of it for the guys who are supplying the inspiration for the rest of us. Yeah, whatever, I'm an idiot... and criticism is what it's all about so that the artist can improve... yadda-yadda... yeah I get it.

The best way to get your points across would be to actually outdo flicks like this in one of the fests... it's freakin' hard to do a really solid short. Frankly I wish people would stop pushing the best to be better because you're making it really hard for me to get motivated to enter a short.

Brandon Rice

06-07-2006, 02:24 PM

Yeah... I hear what you're saying dude... wholeheartedly agree... some comments here have seemed out of place, where others were fine and good critique.

J.R. Hudson

06-07-2006, 02:25 PM

The film's that deserve the attention will get it.

WilderWorks

06-07-2006, 02:36 PM

And attention is both the reward and the motivation.

Blaine

06-07-2006, 02:41 PM

Personally, I have seen three films that are outstanding and another two that are near outstanding. I have seen a couple of films where the filmmakers have shown vast improvements over their previous efforts. There have been some first time efforts that show promise.

Bone Hand seems to be getting the scrutiny that Similo and We Are Not Alone received last time. Not sure if it's good or bad, it's just an observation that I have.

Herman Witkam

06-07-2006, 02:48 PM

The score for Bone Hand is available here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=60281

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-07-2006, 03:18 PM

Herman, lol. :)

this threads about to explode with world war three and you walk in

"hey guys there's some smokin' tunes and cold beer down by the pool"

you slay me brother.

but seriously go listen to Herman's music. Its frickin awesome and deserves to be heard on its own.

Herman was a delight to work with and I was a very tough date withe 11 pages of notes on each draft of the score (all of the drafts were excellent its just that I'm a tough date like I said)

Homie didn't blink and a couple of days later there was a new draft.

He was really able to get what I needed while maintaining what was thematically and musically important to him.

Serioulsy go listen to it.

But I gotta go because I've got some editing to do before my white supremecsist meeting a little later.

"Some Editing" for me means firing up FCP as I plug in to an I.V. drip of crystal meth and crank, while Domino and CPU play simultaneously . the only way to edit!

It will be tough punching those keyboard keys though as my hands are still a little bruised from working with the child actress. I kept punching her in the face and telling her to "act better damnit - you're ruining my movie" but she just wouldn't listen. Kids! LOL :laugh:

:cheesy:

(http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:vCHlIvHebTLGzM:www.lcgsignatures.com/shop/media/CSCnicholson.jpg)

Brandon Rice

06-07-2006, 03:25 PM

LOL Jack... you're awesome!

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-07-2006, 03:27 PM

I know bee-otch! :costumed-smiley-047

Larry Rutledge

06-07-2006, 04:25 PM

And he's modest too! :evil:

J.R. Hudson

06-07-2006, 04:57 PM

Jack

I love that you shoot Scope but wonder what the process is for you ? Some of the comps look crowded as if the 2:35:1 mask is merely laid over the frame and not thought out. It is like the image is competing for space

Do you you shoot freely in 4:3 and eyeball it or do you use reference frames for 2:35:1 ?

Some of the comps look perfect while other's look crowded and squashed (sp?) by the tight ratio. I noticed a similiar problem in ODD

Can you elaborate on this ?

Larry Rutledge

06-07-2006, 05:01 PM

Good question John...I was wondering about this too (not in Jack's in particular, but in general wondering the right/best way to handle this).

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-07-2006, 05:06 PM

Brandon Rice

06-07-2006, 05:08 PM

Your 2:3:5 did look good... how did you crop it like that and maintain quality? Was that because you uprezzed?

Larry Rutledge

06-07-2006, 05:10 PM

I understand using gaff tape to cut the frame on the LCD, but what do you mean by "rescaling in post"? If you are framing based on your referenced LCD why would you need to rescale anything?

Brandon Rice

06-07-2006, 05:11 PM

And, also, can you rescale because you uprezzed? That'd be sweet to be able to do that!

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-07-2006, 05:14 PM

Your 2:3:5 did look good... how did you crop it like that and maintain quality? Was that because you uprezzed? its just cropped for the web. it would be letteboxed on a TV so its not blown up anymore than 16X9, but for the web I just set it to crop in compressor so I'm not wasting data flow or bandwidth rendering black bars. Cropping it like this doesn't hurt it just like letterbox doesn't hurt the resolution, you're just watching a smaller area.

and you misunderstood John, he wasn't complimenting my 2:35.1 framing, he's now gone back to rewatching my movies from past contests and finding ways to pick them all apart as a body of work. :cheesy:

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-07-2006, 05:19 PM

I understand using gaff tape to cut the frame on the LCD, but what do you mean by "rescaling in post"? If you are framing based on your referenced LCD why would you need to rescale anything?

well this go around we had a lot of shooters where usually I shoot everything.

i did more this time than others.

but I usually use some.

If you want to slide up and down, no problem, you have those bars there to slide behind, but if you want to adjust left right or rotate then you have to blow up a little.

the shot of easter bleeding on the couch for exanple was a stagnant shot, but a pull back withe a pretty Vertigo-esque rotation was addded in post.

I find you can blow up 135% with no noticible loss, and sometime as much as 150% if its lit and exposed well with no noise.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-07-2006, 05:21 PM

Jack
Some of the comps look crowded as if the 2:35:1 mask is merely laid over the frame and not thought out.

everysingle frame is meticulously thought out, usually storyboarded, thought out and masked on set, and then mainpulated to no end in post, shifted left right, up down, rotated, flipped re-scaled, camera movement added, etc.

its all very thought out I assure you

do you really think I would just shoot crap without thinking about it or how it's framed?

Brandon Rice

06-07-2006, 05:21 PM

I find you can blow up 135% with no noticible loss, and sometime as much as 150% if its lit and exposed well with no noise.

That's pretty cool man! I never thought about that... Yeah, sometimes I want to move closer to a shot and can't... thanks for that tip!

Blaine

06-07-2006, 05:25 PM

I find you can blow up 135% with no noticible loss, and sometime as much as 150% if its lit and exposed well with no noise.
I know what you mean. I've had to blow up and reposition a couple of times to get rid of unwanted boom shadows or a Pepsi can :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-07-2006, 05:26 PM

And, also, can you rescale because you uprezzed? That'd be sweet to be able to do that!
I wanted to do that this time but I could never get anything to work.

So I just scaled on a 16X9 timeline in FCP. FCP's scaling is better than a lot of others. But this is what Timur said about watching me edit and kind of having his mind blow, he was talking about post camera blow up and movement.

The shot of the deliveryboy riding up is about 150% scale and there is no camera movement in the original shot

the shot of the glove being thrown to the couch which racks up and down with the toss of the glove is also done in post.

again, in FCP at least, you can go to 135% no problem and sometimes as much as 150%

Brandon Rice

06-07-2006, 05:35 PM

That's cool man... see in Avid I do it different. I shoot 4x3 then I go edit my film, then put a 16:9 mask on everything, then I raise/lower my shots where I want them, then I put a resize filter on a layer and make it 133 length for the height so the 16:9 image fills a 4x3 frame, then I take it into my compressing program and render an anamorphic 16:9 file... how would I increase the size of the frame before resizing for 16:9 output though?

TimurCivan

06-07-2006, 06:43 PM

everysingle frame is meticulously thought out, usually storyboarded, thought out and masked on set, and then mainpulated to no end in post, shifted left right, up down, rotated, flipped re-scaled, camera movement added, etc.

its all very thought out I assure you

do you really think I would just shoot crap without thinking about it or how it's framed?

Cough cough! i have mny cramps to attest to this...... Pneumonia too.....

;) its cool man. i had a great time.

J.R. Hudson

06-07-2006, 07:12 PM

and you misunderstood John, he wasn't complimenting my 2:35.1 framing, he's now gone back to rewatching my movies from past contests and finding ways to pick them all apart as a body of work.

No no no; crazy ass fool.

I do not go back and rewatch things unless I am interested; never to pick apart. Incidentally, I have ODD on my desktop. It is a frequent favorite of mine !

everysingle frame is meticulously thought out, usually storyboarded, thought out and masked on set, and then mainpulated to no end in post, shifted left right, up down, rotated, flipped re-scaled, camera movement added, etc.

Do you try to get the shot in-camera first and foremost or do you rely on post trickery to pull them off ? I understand all of the shots are meticulously planned; do you plan to shoot static in the first place knowing you're gonna tweak it too hell and back later on ?

its all very thought out I assure you

I did not meen to imply it was not.

do you really think I would just shoot crap without thinking about it or how it's framed?

It is of my opinion that not every shot shares the 2:35:1 space equally. Some of the shots seem claustrophobic, which is the basis of my question.

I'd like to see more of the world in your frame; the Mise-en-scene so-to-speak. I find a bit of that lost in the post craze technique.

-

Thanks for clarifying Jack ! I only hope my Horrorfest entry can compete with what you'll offer.

snodart

06-07-2006, 07:14 PM

JDS. Just watched it for a third time. Great work. It has a very specific style to it. Your computer must be smokin' while you are editing.

I love the fact that it seems you pushed some boundaries for yourself and in general. I say "boundaries for yourself" only based on your other work, so that is, in part, an assumption. Anything that might have come across as a mistake or misjudgement to some, I'm certain had a specific plan.

Of course any movie will have characteristic of its predecessors, it is the nature of art and invention. But... the #1 thing that I love about Bone Hand and your style is that it takes the information from other movies and tweaks it to a whole new level. It has a feel of organized chaos... and it works. It is much easier to mimic that which has already been done.

I would love to see you in action in post (or any stage for that matter), but I fear I would need to be behind some sort of protective glass.

At any rate, good stuff!

Isaac_Brody

06-07-2006, 09:10 PM

Just watched this a couple times. I enjoyed it. It had it's strengths and it had some weaknesses.

I liked the setup, the beginning action. It was done very well. I really liked the relationship with the girl, it's funny and touching. I think some of the transitions are a little fast, but nothing I couldn't follow.

I had trouble with the scene with the mother. My beef was with one shot. You cut from the mother to a hallway shot. It looks like this.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3025/woman4jc.jpg http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5840/cutaway8fy.jpg

It's disorienting for the audience because they're attention is focused on the mother on the right side of the frame. And then cutting to the hallway suddenly throws their attention off balance. I watched this several times, and then I focused just on the actual cut. Everytime my line of sight was lost. It's hard to pick out the hero in the darkness on the left side. I would cut out the cutaway entirely to keep things clear.

In the next scene between the girl and Bone Hand you've got a straight on shot of the girl and a profile of Bone Hand. I liked the profile of Bone Hand, but I was hoping you'd cut to a straight on of Bone Hand. I know using a profile tends to keep him removed and aloof, but a straight on shot would be good to show that the girl is getting past his walls to touch him. Also, the actor is pretty good, but I think some of his performance is lost in that profile shot.

I found the ambush scene slightly confusing. I think because a lot happens in a short period of time. I think what made it confusing was the quick cuts. I'm not sure if there's enough time for the audience to put all the information together. It took me a couple viewings to fully understand it. I think that might just be my tiredness though.

I thought the music was great. I loved the vibe and grittiness of the piece, and your audio/music mix is pretty polished. Good Work Jdan. :)

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-07-2006, 09:34 PM

You guys are crackin me up.

I feel like someone's gonna bust out with a 60 page dissertation paper on the evolution of my work here in a second.

I DO appreciate all the in depth looks and multiple views and I get that you are taking it apart because you like it on some level -- so thanks.

Gonna have to respond to some of these tomorrow though.

I will say this -- about 30 percent of the editing choices are damage control in a shoot like this where you never get the coverage you need or want.

The apartment shoot ended with the little girl going home in tears after being covered in syrup for two hours and being told to imagine what it would be like to never see her best friend again because her best friend had died to save her life.

We had the one angle of Bone Hand and the one angle of the girl and just could never go back to that scene.

Same for the hallway scene. That cut is a rug that's been thrown over some dirt.

Not making excuses -- well yes I am actually -- the film kind of stands out for seeming like a real movie, but it ain't. Its just a guerilla joint like the rest of the flicks around here and we barely got it on tape.

Just some perspective -- its not like I have a magic wand that makes them look like this, there's bullshit and chicanery at every corner and cut just BARELY holding the thing together.

And yet all the notes on this page are good and well thought out and I do appreciate them
however and I will discuss them tomorrow along with the "racist" thing.

night all :thumbsup:

Jack

I'll respond to some of these tomorrow, but I gotta hit the hay because I am totally drained.

Matt Sconce

06-07-2006, 09:43 PM

Woohoo! Bone hand may develop a cult following from the sheer amount of views alone! Once again...loved it. This is the one I show to people first when they ask me which films will beat mine......:crybaby: .................................:)

Mike McNeese

06-07-2006, 09:43 PM

I'm going to go to film school and get my MFA just so I can write a dissertation using this movie.

TimurCivan

06-07-2006, 09:58 PM

it wouldnt get attention like this if it werent good, jack.

Brandon Rice

06-08-2006, 12:26 AM

Jack... I'm rootin' for ya, and think this film deserves to win... really great!

jpbankesmercer

06-08-2006, 05:55 AM

Jack hope the meeting went well :)

I think you nailed the genre. Bonehand was a real SuperHero/ Meandude and now we've have got Girl-Bonehand to kick ass in the future. You spent a lot of time on this fun-romp and it paid off. I did laugh to myself on how you must have thought up that character. You made a hand a iconic super symbol, thats gotta deserve a beer? Don't it? :beer:
Great job.
J.p

Isaac_Brody

06-08-2006, 06:54 AM

everysingle frame is meticulously thought out, usually storyboarded, thought out and masked on set, and then mainpulated to no end in post, shifted left right, up down, rotated, flipped re-scaled, camera movement added, etc.

I will say this -- about 30 percent of the editing choices are damage control in a shoot like this where you never get the coverage you need or want.

Hey Jack, I hope you got some sleep. I think you may be taking some of the critiques personally, maybe cause you're drained. I think you should be flattered. People are reacting because you've built up a reputation for having solid DVXfest films. This one too is solid, even with its weaknesses. Everyone's got a critique, and you can choose to reply to every critique, or accept that people got different things from it.

This thread has over 2000 views. There are films with less than 100 views that aren't getting the careful attention this one is. I do think your dissertation comment is a little insulting. We're here to help each other, and if people feel like their comments aren't appreciated, they'll hold back their honest critique and not give feedback at all. It's difficult to take criticism, especially when you've run yourself ragged trying to make the best film you can. It's even more difficult to take honest criticism when your batteries are run down.

Anyway, relax, :bath:have a popsicle, and enjoy other people's work. :)

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 07:13 AM

OK cathing uo to all the great kudos and criticisms. Thanks for taking the time guys.

Great Job! I really thought that this film was very strong in many aspects: it was filmed well, had good SFX and some very impressive acting.
Overall great job- too bad I can't vote.

You're close man. Give feedback for each of the 25 films. Drop by the cafe and click the new posts button often and you can do it with legit posts.

yea. I have to say I liked this one.

Most people hit the points and looks like i chimed in on the tail and glad to get some explanations.

My Thoughts:
I agree. The story came full circle. I wanted to stop and rewind a few times to see what was going on but I forced myself to watch all the way through first.
Was that a rat? (one of things I wanted to stop rewind)
I think it was great he was just walking along, threw the rat and kept on going.
I like the 'asian' and his sensless beating/revenge.
THugs had the comedic element.
The girl was pretty dang good. i was impressed. THere's probably a few things that could have been better.
Cinematography.. I felt... squeezed. There were a LOT of really tight shots and after watching I wanted to release my breath. That happened at the cemetary. The transition into the girl was perfect..
Yeah I've gotten this note a few times this contest and you guys are definately on to something, I like the eyes to be the focus of the shot. To do one establishing shot and then stay in the closeups primarily. I also like some of the image to over flow the edge. I think one of the reasons the end beat plays so well where she transforms is because I kept it claustrophobic until that wide shot where she transforms, so visually theirs a release as the story resolves.

But its a good note and definately something to keep myself in check for with future projects.

Until she stopped to turn her head and look. That was kinda over the top. Really? One other guy said that too (offline) and he was very adamant about it. I figure she got to the end of the path and she just looks around before entering the next path ... which becomes symbolic of course and is why you may think its cheesy and to on the nose ... but seems completley natural to me on the one hand AND its a frickin superhero movie -- she can't have an heroiic pose at the end?

We have limited takes to choose from here (we snuck into the cemetery pretending to be a geneoligical research group) so she does the take in all of them. Do you think I should try to end on a freeze frame of her before she does the take or something?

Lemme know -- really cuz I'm definitley considering changing it for the DVD.

Plus some reflections in the glasses? Dag NABIT! YEp that's a circular reflector that wasn't even hitting her. I'm gonna roto it out for the DVD, but couldn't for the fest as I slid un under the wire.

The Score: Ah yes.. the score. I have to disagree with Brice on this one. I thought Herman's job was absolutely brilliant! It was smooth flowing, had great sounds, great elements and took you on an up and down roller coaster of emotions. My hads off to him on this one. Maybe the electric guitar riffs were a little too much over the top, but hey. It added to the grungy'ness of the film. I like it alot to and agree on the gunginess - any over the top guitarness is my bad - a result of me saying "more guitar! more guitar!" but I like the guitar as is.

I did not like seeing the same hand footage at the end. Something else could have been there instead.
The VFX were perfect for the film. Not too over the top. Not cheesy. The 'jump off' was great and executed nicely, but had no point. (unless its your reason for him "letting himself go")

All in all... I'm really glad you decided to stay with this to the end. I think it pays off and congrats on the submission.

cheers!
/j

Thanks a ton for the feedback -- I' getting to your thread today. I enjoyed your film.

I think this represented him falling into death so the little girl could live. A conscious inner suicide or release...? Maybe?
ah yes.. that's what I was thinking too. but if he's a super hero he'd probably live from the fall no?

still, i see and feel the symbolism.

/j

Yeah, you're being kind of literal Justin. I mean can the girl fly. Nope. Is this scene REALLY happening? Nope. So whether or not he's a super hero has little to do with his interaction in non physical world. ALSO ... and here's the biggy ... he wears the shades all movie long for a reason -- wierd glowy eyes (though I wouldn't expect you to get that per se), which we see go back to normal after she takes the sunglasses -- so he is no longer bone hand at that point.

but the big point is you got the symbolism

in my head its whats happening in her head to make sense of the tranferrrence. Now I wouldn't necessearily expect the audience to get that. I only cared that they got that there was a transferecne, and that it was treated somehwhat poetically (hence the cohen brothers dream ballet :) )

Jack, really enjoyed this one, but for me ODD SQUAD still holds the trump card over all your films. Just loved that one.

This one was a tad more difficult for me to follow with regards to the story. I thought the FX were GREAT, both tasteful and comp'd well into the shots.

The camera angles & editing were great, as well as the lighting. I didn't care for the lighting quite as much on the roof top, but that's probably my only lighting gripe.

Didn't really notice the score all that much (that can be a good thing) until the end ... then I thought, gee, that sounds familiar!

So here's my REAL question ... where's my "Special Thanks" credit for introducing you to Herman?! :) That last part where it jams fits perfectly, and has always been one of my favorites from the composers I've heard.

Great job, Jack. Really enjoyed the film.

haha -- thanks for the feedback -- be getting to yout thread today as well.
you and briceman will be added for thanks in the DVD cut -- was trying to keep the thanks specific to people that gave us and adaptor etc, and include the rest of DVXuser generally, because its hard to draw the line as to how many posts or PMs by this or that person directly influenced the film or made it better. But as Bricey was quick to pointy out - moral support shoul be inclueded too -- although you will see that you are all over the Sci Fest DVD, bee-otch :)

I haven't read the whole thread yet so my opinion is kind of independent.

Great movie, a bit fast but really good, gongrats Jack & your team.
Very amped intro, everything is showing clearly, how he takes his power, music has the right mood and with the fast editing and motion effects you show the hero's super powers.

What I didn't like was the girl been shot.... I almost cry dude... (yes I'm a father!), but you made up with the Hero giving his life. But again I find it very hard.

Great work again.
Glad it had some impact for you. Hope it wasn't too much. I realized after writing this film (they say that in yout 30's you write about unresolved issues with your parents) that I have made three movies about a parent or a a suurogate parent being willing to sacrifice anything -- even their lives for the childs well being ... I'm a child of divorce at 4 1/2 ... "hello ... pagiing Dr. Freud" :laugh:

Really great film, I got a chance to sit and watch it last night.. when I saw the little girl for some reason I thought " Curly Sue!!!! " Do you remember that film?

She ( Jessie ) was a cutie, and she did a wonderful job!! The ending was great as well, very Crow-ish

No ... what is this Curly Sue? :)

Great Work. It's all been said already so I wont re-state anything. Amazing utilization of the time limit in terms of story. Really nice.

thanks for taking the tme and the kudos :Drogar-Evil(DBG):

This is the first one I watched cuz I knew I could start off with a good one. And i wasn't disappointed. The story has a lot of influences, but they're all good ones. And I liked the gun-POV when they're shooting through the door. I think I remember that from the beginning of Leon. It was cool as hell then and it's still cool in this.

Wasn't too keen on the girl, but maybe that's just me being too hard on child actors.

I think all the post work in the image was a bit much though. I just didn't feel like it fit the film.

The effects were top-notch. Very good work.

All things said, a great film, Dude. Thumbs and big toes up!

thank you sir :thumbsup:

Great work! I predict you to win this contest from what I have seen so far.

that's been said before -- twice -- thanks for jixing me bastad! lol -- kiding of course,
:dankk2:, man

Well-done, JDStanley. I appreciate the fact that your film started, told, and completed an entire storyline in the time allotment.

Your child lead was good, especially since it can be such a struggle to work with child actors. Always room for improvement, but I would be proud of what she was able to produce. Especially when she coughed up blood. YUCK!

I was a little lost when it came to the "death transfer" flashes. I wasn't sure what was going on until image of your lead character's lifeless bone hand ... impressive work
that;s cool with me ... something like the death dream ballet transferrence - if its interesting and cool in its own right - can be a good thing if it prompts a WTF? Since that's a question you will watch the next scene to have answered. It becomes a problem of course if I set up the question with some wierd scene and don't answer it.

thanks for your comments all - will catch up with some more in a few

- Jack

OmaR

06-08-2006, 07:21 AM

I've read till page 6, but I couldn't go on just right now :embarasse

I've to tell Jack is really a great director!

In my opinion this isn't the best short of the contest, but generally it's a great work!

Jack I like the way you shoot, your style... the best thing is that you have your own style: I could watch your movies and understand that are yours and nobody else!

I would like to see a BTS of this short, for the first scene above all: very interesting for me...

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 07:39 AM

Hey Jack, I hope you got some sleep. I think you may be taking some of the critiques personally, maybe cause you're drained. I think you should be flattered. People are reacting because you've built up a reputation for having solid DVXfest films. This one too is solid, even with its weaknesses. Everyone's got a critique, and you can choose to reply to every critique, or accept that people got different things from it.

This thread has over 2000 views. There are films with less than 100 views that aren't getting the careful attention this one is. I do think your dissertation comment is a little insulting. We're here to help each other, and if people feel like their comments aren't appreciated, they'll hold back their honest critique and not give feedback at all. It's difficult to take criticism, especially when you've run yourself ragged trying to make the best film you can. It's even more difficult to take honest criticism when your batteries are run down.

Anyway, relax, :bath:have a popsicle, and enjoy other people's work. :)

No no, not at all ... like yout post didn't tweak me at all ... and I get that for the most part they are taking it apart to see why the sum of the parts add up as they do.

But it is a little irksome when one guy tells you offline that the girls acting is brilliant and then online "after having watched the movie 6 more times" that he's decided she's the biggest problem in the movie. Nothing can hold up to that ... and MattinSTL does have a point about papering your walls with grabs from this film. (not that you are a culprit) - and Matt has no reason to be defensive.

So I just felt like making fun of that a little bit. My post wasn't directed at you per se and deflecting your criticism, it just came after your post.

Your post was, is it seems all things you do are, 100% completely approriate and an example of how criticism should be given. (I do have some questions about one aspect of it which I'll get to as I catch up here in a few minutes)

If you look back to Zombie Fest and read the threads for the top 3 films in that and Scifi - you will see a growing shift from "I can't believe you just went out and shot this" and "I had this issue with the content here or there ... can you explain", to "this was great, here's a thousand things technical and otherwise that were wrong with it" This is fine and good but a certain level of decorum would be nice. Do I really need to read empassioned arguments over which part was worse - the girls acting or the editing - for example? Especially whan both have been stated a myriad times, and actully acknowleddged by me as areas for growth (the editing of course, wouldn't agree on the childs acting as lacking here even if i did agree - know what I mean) But to me that argment is just frickin' comical and warrants a having a little fun poked at it.

When I'm really hurt or offended I skulk away or make sad hallmark posts like the Bone Hand vs ODD Squad post, which has been the only thing in here that's been hard to take because AGAIN, I didn't think I had hit my PERSONAL mark for success when I was so sure that I had (and I had never felt that way before)

So anyhooo PLEASE keep the crits coming -- while it has been a lot more proctological this time around, I don't mean to sound defensive. I swear I am enjoying my examintaion at this point. (that's really weird sounding but you get my point).

spidey

06-08-2006, 08:37 AM

OK so everyone knows me as the overly critical guy so here it is.

The zooming effect?
The ending was seen a mile away.
The acting was eh? the girl was perhaps not the best choice.
The ending with her morphing into the older verison was also a thing that bugs me.
The power was kinda weird. very different.
I dont know when the movie is trying to be serious or funny.
The music is too twinkly.
The girl dying made me giggle.

typical story, I was hoping to be totally different but it was the same. the story remind me of the odd squad in some ways, you zombie film is probli the biggest different movie I've seen from you.

simularites with Odd Squad:

The beginning with the mutant is simular with the thug in this one.
The theme of protecting a daughter or girl is simular.
The sacrafice to escape or save some one.

I dunno. something just bugs me. Now don't take offense with this I'm just trying to point out things from your pervious work and things that just bug me. this is how I always critque. I look for the bad before the good. just how I roll.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 08:41 AM

catching up ...

I would love to find out how you did the smoke effects from the deaths and all. I enjoyed them a lot and wish i could do effects like that in the future....BTS coming? hopefully, we'll see if I have time or not during the fest to put a few things up ... there's a time lapse of Aram and I jacking up my me and my girlfriend's brand new apartment, repainting it to look like a slum. and also the little girl getting revenge on me by covering me with strawberry syrup (blood)

Jack, as usual a fine movie. Personally, I liked The ODD Squad better, but I think a lot of that has to do with the lead actor and the hard boilded VO.

On this one, I was particularly pleased that you told the story without having to resort to VO to get your idea across. It was totally appropriate in The ODD Squad and it was great that you didn't use it here.

Technically, I thought you did a very good job. Loved the cinematography. You had an engaging story that was complete and had a payoff. The acting was good. Jessie Artemis Baum did a good job overall. A couple of times I "felt" her acting but damn, I shouldn't be nitpicking that. Considering her age and the difficulty of working with children, then requiring her to have to carry such a large portion of the movie...you done good, pilgram :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

The symbolism of him "falling" to his death to save her was excellent. Man, did Joel Isreal remind me of Tim Matheson.

The payoff scene in the cemetary was well executed. I have to disagree with an earlier post concerning the use of the white makeup. I think it was spot on for a character balanced somewhere between life and death.

The only negative thing I have to say about this movie are the shots right after Bone Hand saves Easter. When she "wakes up" the cutting is disorienting and actually pulled me out of the story. At the 4:33 mark the jump cut feels like a mistake or continuity error. Personally, I'd have liked to seen that scene pulled off smoother. It would have made for a more emotionally touching scene. I've gone back and rewatched the movie twice and still feel the same way about this scene. It's just my opinion, you are the filmmaker and as such the decision on how to tell your story is your prerogative. Jeesh, everyone's a critic.

thanks man,

glad the death dream ballet worked for you ... there were a few lines of VO that I was enamoured with at the beginning of the process ... I just liked the lines and thought it clearly set things up as HER story (which it could have been without telagraphing the end) I was gonna have and adult woman V.O.. so you might think it was an anonymous V.O. until the end when she changed. But the line I liked was ... "he once told me that he'd been touched by death ... but now I knew that it was death that touched him" around the time she drops the flower and then morphs into the adult bonehand.

BUT I set the challenge for myself to tell the whole thing w/out V.O., plus it would have been just like ODD Squad with the V.O. bookends ... anyway it took some discioline on my part, so I'm appreciate that you appreciated it.

...
I am a big fan of JDS's work; starting with Shed and fast culminating with THE ODD SQUAD which was so fun and perfect. I was very eager to see what was offered up here with Herofest.

One thing I truly enjoy with the usual suspect's in these fest's is seeing growth from the DVXuser filmmakers; from Zombiefest to Scifest to Herofest and those who participated in all 3 the growth is mostly evident.

However, on this short I found it, not a step back from The Odd Squad, but more so a lateral move. Something tells me JACK's next short may just be a Quantam LEap forward in development and skill.

I love your style in the cutting room but at times feel it abused in this short. For ODD, the manic hyperreal cutting style worked with the 70's funk play but here it was a distraction. Just when I settled on a nice composition or moment in the piece, it changed on me. I kept saying 'Jeez Jack, slow down!'. It was as if there was a lacking confidence is staying with a shot more than a few seconds like today's music video's.
yeah you are on to something. this is a product of trying something new + the length requirement + trying to hard to make it good in the final hours

I really enjoyed the slower scenes; the man and woman talking in apartment doorway, the child and man on couch. This is when I felt we were let into your world. You do action nicely but at times it feels to rushed. Like 'Bam! Slap! Crunk!' and then it's over before it began.
I was trying for a contrast in those scenes with the fight stuff. One area where I felt ODD Squad failed was that the character developments scenes were rushed because of the time crunch, so I was very mindful, perhpas overly mindful of keeping the action/external plot stuff as quick and snappy as possible.

Again -- went too far though (I HOPE EVERYONE GETS THAT I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, LOL) and hopeing the composer will do one last version for me for the DVD as I add some time back in.
...
I love the use of many locations. You suceeded in creating a world for me from the wonderfully opening shot in the alley, to the apartment building, the rooftops and the cemetary. I love when the filmmaker 'Get's out of the apartment'

Not sure if you planned on rain but that served the atmosphere greatly; lucky you! Probably a pain in the arse that day of shooting but be grateful for the asthetic it created!

The score is not only great but it appears custom on top of that. The cue's are spot on and the mood serves unlike some of the other films where it sounds like a soundtrack score laid on top of the film where they just do not jive with what is on screen and way over the top. [/quote]

I love the score ... we worked really hard on it.

In closing; this short is the best of the bunch. Usually I reserve my highest vote for the single film that entertains me the most; for Zombiefest I gave my 10 to The Laughing Dead, for SCIFEST I gave my 10 to We Are Not Alone . I personally found Dahopa Film's SIMILO parody to entertain me more than this one, but am going to reserve my 10 for this piece anyway's for technically being superior to the other films in terms of photography, score, sound design, set's, location's and talent.

Nice job Jack. I liked ODD SQUAD much better, but think the lack of challenger's this go around may give a Wild Card and there is nothing wrong with that. You have the real film chops. You bastard. You inspire me as well as challenge my own inner drive. Damn it.

In short; I'd like to see you slow down and have more confidence visually and in your pacing.

Thanks John

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 08:41 AM

catching up ...

Jack,

I thought the girl who is NOT ACTUALLY Aram's daughter was amazing. Correct -- she is NOT aram's daughtrer -- her last name is BAUM, Aram's last name is BAUMAN. Aram's daughters helped on the movie and are in his often but Jessie was begat by Stan Baum and Kayla Scwartz :thumbsup:

...The best thing in the movie. Remember when we talked about actors vs. non-acotrs? To me, she had such a wonderful simplicity and directness to her performance. Like most kids. I disagree with hudson about kids like HJO and Dakota Fanning. To me, those kids overact soooo much that they don't come off as kids at all, but just as very short actors (ewwwww).

Anyway, if I had one criticism, it would be that I saw the end coming as soon as the girl came on screen. I had the same thing happen when I saw Odd Squad.

Maybe I've just seen too many movies.
yes you have you bastid ... but I'm gonna get amazing kreskin on your ass, next time I want you to stop the flick 30 seconds in, and PM me and tell me the ending, that or come over and have a beer and I'll just stop the damn thing 30 second in and you can prove it.

I think it's part of your power as a filmmaker, that you have such a strong grasp of the basics of movie storytelling, that your work comes off as extremely professional.
Or maybe its your story telling abilities. I find myself watching movies all the time going "what's the most unexpected, yet simultaneously germane outcome for this scenario" and its easy to guess if you are a movie nut and done some writing. 15 minutes into the Village I called the twist, same with The Others. I think with these Genre contests your experience may have less to do with me being HACK Daniel Stanley :) , and more to do with your understanding of the flippy floppy payoffs that work best, both in a short and in the world of these Genre's. But you have to realize that you aren't just watching with a tell me the story audience hat at that point. I think you are watching with a craftsman / reverse engineer's hat on at that point. Which is fine ... I find I still enjoy movies a great deal and maybe even more so watching them on that duel course like that ... one track going "oh ... ok ... I see what he's settiing up here ... that should be a nice payoff ... uh huh" and the other track siultamneously just enjoying the movie. [/quote]

I just get the feeling that the situations, characters, etc. are a little stock. 5 min is not enough time to really get under their skins and make the JOURNEY of the story yours own. That make sense? totally - though I would argue that the charactres are Archetypal ( a short hand due to the length) but that the situations and journey are wholly my own, but why wouldn't I think that. Also these contests are an assignment. While my demons invairably make there way in, they are none the less assignments. JARRED: "OK, class. I want 5 minutes on Super Heros on my desk by May 30th" Superheros! (half the class groans, the other half begins talking excitedly and sharing ideas). So they are created to order in a sense and are by there very design formed from someplace where the genre archetypes and my demons intersect. When I start from scratch, and perhaps for Horror fest, since that can be anything in any walk of life, hopefully you will find them more idiosyncratic.

Again, that is SUPER nit-picky and it might just be me, and maybe I'm just pissed off that you didn't let me come work on it too. :)
not by my design ... lets change that next time

However, I have spent pretty much all day cursing your name and swearing I will not release my next short until it's at least this good. Bastid.
.....

I thin we should discuss it over a beer and some very greasy food say around 5:30? I have an online class at 9:00.

I really enjoyed this film, it was amazing how much story you got in such a short period of time. It never felt like it drug and every piece of "storytelling" seemed to be long enough for me to catch all of it. Their is so much story told that I remember at one point thinking surely this is going over 6 minutes, but when I looked down and saw the bar at under 3 minutes at the halfway mark I was really impressed.

The special effects were top notch, you did a great job integrating them into the film. They fit in as a part of the story and not simply slapped on to impress. I liked the "death" coming into his hands, the smoke looked very fluid and realistic and seemed like it was really there and not just drawn on with the computer.

The framing of the shots was superb...I love the opening shot of the guy biking down the alley...looks really cool. And the coloring all seemed to fit well and help tell the story. The alley way had a bit of a blue-tint to it, made everything a little moody and sinister. Later in the apartment the colors are more rich and full, giving a sense of real life.

The sound was really good, I liked that I could hear all the dialog and it didn't sound like it came from Uncle Billy's camcorder on-board mic. It was full and rich sounding. The ambient noise (rain, etc) and the sound fx were all really clear and well mixed to not overpower the film.

I didn't personally care for the portions of the score that were rock sounding. It fits the story ok, but I'm just not personally a big fan of that type of score.

The story was complete and had a great hook at the end for BoneHand 2 :)

The acting, overall, was pretty good...but not outstanding. I think everyone did a good job, but the only one that left me feeling like I wasn't watching an actor was BoneHand. The others never fully became their character and I never forgot that they were someone else that existed outside of the world you created.

Overall a great job, I'm glad you were able to complete it in time to enter. That is a lot of work to have completed and then be shut out. Thanks for sharing this film, I really enjoyed it.

Peace,
Larry

thanks for the feedback larry, watching yout film and getting to yout thread today.

Just saw this Jack! I must say the cinematography is awesome... the action sequences was nice, the only problems I have were with the actors... not the Bone Hand, but the two guys in the alleyway.. and though she is only a little girl, I hate to say, her acting kind of took me out the story, specially the spitting the blood scene, I actually laugh when i saw that, that scene was suppose to be emotional, but it made me laugh...

And I thought the story was ok... But the look of the film is incredible, cool FX.. though I haven't seen Shed, I must say ODD Squad IMO is the best I've seen from you(Story, acting, FX, cinematagraphy) ODD Squad had it all, not to take anything away from this film, the look of it was Awesome, it kind of lacked in other things, nontheless you're a great film maker... Keep up the good work..

Now I have to go see the rest of the stuff to cast my vote..

Anybody know when is the deadline to vote?

thanks for taking the time.

Jack - I liked this one much better than Odd Squad. This one made me want to see the full length feature version of the story. It was perfect. The only problem I had with it was the acting of one of the thugs who came to the door. Hang on, let me go see what his name is... BRB.

Oh, nevermind. He was good too. :) lol

Great stuff (once again) Jack. Good luck!

I cast that guy, the shorter thug, because he's so damn good lookin' :)

I just watched BH and I freakin' loved it... definitely a more complete story then Odd. I would put this one above Odd easily... got to disagree with the others there. I think the little girl was a better actor then the young man mutant in Odd...

Honestly the reason I've kind of dropped back from the fests is because I want to do something worthwhile... and seeing your level of skill (and the others mentioned by JH) means that until I'm ready to compete I don't have much interest in being a total "also ran".

To be considered a good filmmaker you have to be at least semi-consistently good... nobody has great respect for one-hit wonders... and yeah, the community is friggin' critical... but considering you are consistently hitting them off the far wall if not over it... I sure wouldn't beat yourself up on opinionated details.

I kinda' got choked up at the end of your flick... it hit some buttons for me that these festival shorts rarely even get close to.

So is that still 2:35 or are you secretly wanting to evolve to "banner-boxing"?
thanks man, nope still good ol' 2:35.1 :)

Fantastic stuff, Jack! Great idea and brilliant execution. Top notch, sir.:beer:
:beer:

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 08:58 AM

I think the question regarding the racism in the opening is apt -- when selecting the defining incident that will show Bone Hand to us, why racism? Why street violence? How does it relate to his power, to his purpose, to the sacrifice he's about to make in the story?

Sure, it can simply mean, "He's badass and sticks up for the weak." It could simply demonstrate what we already know about super heroes. But it could also mean more, it could integrate meaningfully into the story as a whole. The opening scene could resonate in the last scene. And perhaps it does. But how?

While we lavish praise, we must also increase our expectations.
I believe you may be reading into it a bit. Perhaps Jack can elaborate on this plot point for us ?

I see it as simply an introduction; the race card being pulled out is inconsequential and nothing to panic about. It could have been a (Insert bad guy) .....

Why read into it ?

Jack ?
I have no problem with the racist comments AT ALL. I would "read into" absolutely any introduction, absolutely any scene, and would encourage everyone to do the same. That's what making a film is about, that's why you choose to film certain scenes instead of one of the infinite other possible scenes. Everything should serve everything else. Everything should have something to say. If you don't read into it, you've not given it a chance to speak.

Well Jack you made another great one !!..

Wow how did I miss that racisim thing ....all I saw was a bad dude .

Really enjoyed it Jack.
Ian
Thanks for the comments all.

I tend to agree with widlerworks that in a well crafted piece a cell (smallest element) should contain or comment on the major elements of the whole, either blatantly or in some reduced or distilled manner.

I would also say that standing up for a little guy does have a thematic link with fosterparenting an unwanted child.

But also, in this truncated form, short hand must be used. I have to short hand lots of elements to get to the Bonehand Easter RElatiubship story.

So he's a New York superhero that fights crime in the street is pretty much it.

I could have done a mugging -- too batman and not gritty enough for what i was going for

I could have done an attempted rape -- too much

I chose a potection racket -- no more original than the other two, but what crime is.

I chose the protection racket becaue I wanted a little color in my movie. Manhattan is not an island of white people, so I liked the idea of a little shakedown in China town.

The racist element is there because it makes the bad guy badder and because its funny ... that's right I said it ... funny ... not the racial slurs but the fact that he uses them incorrectly AND then the slurre gets to whoop his ass WHILE correcting his incorrect slur usage ... that's all.

I think we are in a post PC enough era this is pretty mild by comparison to South Park, or Mind of Mencia, or Chappelle Show, or Tarantino's first two movies, particurly Dogs, where its "N" word this and that buy a bunch of white dudes.

Matthew B. Moore

06-08-2006, 09:13 AM

The idea is cool. The death power is cool. I like the death power effect and I like the first scene.
My deal with this is that I've seen it before. There are chunks of other movies all over this thing. JDAN your ideas get clouded by the films that you have seen. The characters, the situations, the ending. Your ideas should stand in front of the others, not the other way around.
On the whole, I've enjoyed it more than the others I've seen.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 09:27 AM

...
Do you try to get the shot in-camera first and foremost or do you rely on post trickery to pull them off ? I understand all of the shots are meticulously planned; do you plan to shoot static in the first place knowing you're gonna tweak it too hell and back later on ?

I try to frame with some basic rules and guidlines on the shoot. With teh LCD taped off to 2:35, think in 3rds, minimize the head room unless there's a mountain or something interestng back there that needs to be in the shot, and avoid the middle third, not as a rule, but certainly more often than not. This is for standard coverahe dialgue scenes like the roof or the car in ODD Suad.

For storyboarded sequences its that plus using the story boards as a guide.

The reframing in post is for when something goes wrong, or I couldn't control something, or I did get it just like I intended but it turns out to be wicked boring.

...
It is of my opinion that not every shot shares the 2:35:1 space equally. Some of the shots seem claustrophobic, which is the basis of my question.

I'd like to see more of the world in your frame; the Mise-en-scene so-to-speak. I find a bit of that lost in the post craze technique.

I think you are on to something here. I don't know if its due to post per se, its just a bias that I need to be careful of in future things.

...
Thanks for clarifying Jack ! I only hope my Horrorfest entry can compete with what you'll offer.

Who knows, maybe we'll be in the same city and can do something together :thumbsup:

JDS. Just watched it for a third time. Great work. It has a very specific style to it. Your computer must be smokin' while you are editing.

I love the fact that it seems you pushed some boundaries for yourself and in general. I say "boundaries for yourself" only based on your other work, so that is, in part, an assumption. Anything that might have come across as a mistake or misjudgement to some, I'm certain had a specific plan.

Of course any movie will have characteristic of its predecessors, it is the nature of art and invention. But... the #1 thing that I love about Bone Hand and your style is that it takes the information from other movies and tweaks it to a whole new level. It has a feel of organized chaos... and it works. It is much easier to mimic that which has already been done.

I would love to see you in action in post (or any stage for that matter), but I fear I would need to be behind some sort of protective glass.

At any rate, good stuff!

yeah, thanks for the comments and for getting that I was trying something new in the style and all,

Jack

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 09:46 AM

Spidey and Matthew, though I think Spidey could take a few notes on Matthew's bedside manor, you both raise soom good if not difficult to hear points.

For me I usually start with theme - whatever the argument is of the piece and start from there and let the rest of the stuff fall into place.

Spidey you are right, I have indeed made three movies with the idea of sacrifice at the center and moreover an adult sacrificing to save a child.

I think that's probably one movie to many. Writer's do chase their demons and this one has clearly run its course.

I'll also say, that Shed was the only thingh I made in a vaccuum, or with no context of what works or plays on this site. The rest have certainly been influenced by the successful films of the past contests and loving movies in general.

But your points are well taken, I've kind of thought in terms of vocabulary for these GENRE contests that archetypal situations and characters were appropriate -- in fact it's worth pointing out that for Sci Fest, we three working independantly (with you and Matthew as a team) came up with the hardboiled older cop / young buddy cop in a futuristuc world with a rougue element that must be hunted down and stopped with little regard to rights or process or whatever. Also in both movies, the end turns on the odler cop breaking the rules to save the younger cop (or both their asses in your flick). All very archetypal and done before. So again, that's seemed approriate for these GENRE contests.

Your well meaning notes are well taken however, as it's always a good idea to dig deeper, and stepping out of the archtypal mold is definately a challenge and guide for my next film.

thanks for keeping me honest and "keeping it reel"

JACK

WHew... OK ... all caught up ...wow.

spidey

06-08-2006, 09:51 AM

yeah those were my only beef the shots were cool and i like the beginning. I like it better than most people. better than most. good job, cant wait to compete next time. we got sucked into a feature lol! but we'll be there for the horrorfest :-D

HybridCreations

06-08-2006, 01:09 PM

Looks like the link ain't workin'....can't wait to see this.
-Ryan

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 01:19 PM

Sorry about that, Ryan

-- mirror site updated -- bandwidth was exceeded on the other

Jack

HybridCreations

06-08-2006, 01:26 PM

Thank you kindly sir, DLing now.

Ok, so first impressions before I watch it again....Amazing as usual. I loved the use of color. I loved the background and wardrobe choices. There were a couple times where I felt like I was watching one of those TV Crime Dramas (and I mean that as a sincere compliment, hope you take it as such.) I think that just speaks to the reality of the world you created. That little girl is one damn fine actress. Perhaps it's been discussed already, but how did you do that spinning crane shot?...looks like a crane anyway. Great job.

EDIT: Watched it again...couple more compliments and some nitpicking.

Story had a nice arc, I definitely wanted to see more. Nice effects, nice raining fight scene. Good hand makeup Nice lighting on the roof for the night shots, maybe a tad much on his albino skin. Again, I love the colors of the buildings.
Love the peephole shot, was that just a mask you put on in post? The blood on her looked real until she woke up, then it was a little thin on her chin, maybe mixing in a little cornstarch could've thickened it up?

Oh, and how'd you get her to levitate? Tell us the truth Jack, did you dress up in Chromakey Green spandex?

wesley

06-08-2006, 01:38 PM

J.R. Hudson

06-08-2006, 04:20 PM

I was orginally gonna send this via PM to Jack but then thought that perhaps it may help other's or spur more analysis of the idea.

http://www.widescreen.org/examples.shtml

This particular link has wonderful examples of the 2:35:1 aspect ratio being used. I was going to send you this, not because I think you don't understand the difference between 4:3 Pan and Scan and 2:35:1 (which is the sites purpose) but to give you nice examples of ...

How much is going on in this aspect ratio (Mis-en-Scene)

... when you pull back and allow the world to exist sans the claustrophobia or C.U. and E.C.U. you've been using.

Pay particular interest to the amount of headroom allowed, the amount of negative space and weighted space within the frames and the overall balance in the frames.

With you using so many C.U. shot's I think they lose their impact when a C.U should really say something and be motivated.

IMO

Brandon Rice

06-08-2006, 04:30 PM

Nice post there... I am always worried about too many CU's... I like using medium shots... so it feels wider than CU but still maintains good detail for things... CU's are getting overused (not saying they are in Jack's, in fact I'd disagree with John and say I liked Jack's use of CU) but for example in MI:3, and in Bourne Supremecy... the movie's are almost entirely in CU and I totally don't find it necessary.

david jerome

06-08-2006, 05:22 PM

This was awesome. The story was my favorite part. It reminded me of something I might see on The Twilight Zone. Weird and very interesting. I love stories like that. Great job.

conrad_johnson

06-08-2006, 09:26 PM

Sorry if this is repetitive - can't begin to read all your posts.

Very good job. This is one of the few that effortlessly kept my attention throughout, which is no small feat because I have ADHD.

So pros -
The one above was a major pro.
overall, i liked your choice of muted colors throughout
loved the city shots
loved how you broke up the cemetery scene with some dark in the left frame
loved the 2 shot of bonehand and girl on top of the building at the beginning
so in short, lots of neat shots.
very high quality overall

cons -
a lot of the framing was too tight, cutting off the chin.
title shots - the shot of the hand, with musical accompaniment, totally felt like that old show that was on nickelodeon when i was a kid - "are you afraid of the dark". It took me out of the story too much.
overall, i'd like to see slicker photography - not so many unconventional angles, jump cuts, etc. i understand you're going for a style here, but it becomes a little off-putting. a simple shot-reverse shot to make me forget I'm watching a movie someone made would be nice.
hallway scene with mom and bone hand - whoah. that confused me. again, shot-reverse shot would be nice.

that said - good work! i genuinely think you did a great job. you've definitely got a style going that works for you.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 10:20 PM

...a lot of the framing was too tight, cutting off the chin.
....

I appreciate the positive comments and criticisms and you know how to give both diiplomatically and approriately ...

but since the thread is now a classroom for framing 2:35.1 ...

I feel it necessary point out that there are total of just two shots, not "alot" which where the chin is somehwat cropped. One is entirely intentional and looks great and would be commonly known as Extreme Closeups, the other was the only coverage we had.
http://frenchquarterfeatures.com/quiecu.gif
perfect for that moment and a choice

http://frenchquarterfeatures.com/joelecu.gif
not a choice but the only coverage we had

if you find any others please post the grabs or the counter numbers, thanks.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 11:08 PM

With you using so many C.U. shot's I think they lose their impact when a C.U should really say something and be motivated.

IMO
And wide shots should be motivated even more so ... when you have a Scuplture of a giant god in the background a la lord of teh rings there's a reason to include it in your shot.

Otherwise there's not.

Establishing 2 shot and or wide cu, cu, cu, with a reminder 2 shot or wide shot someehere in there is pretty standard.

And the roof is a classic example of 2 shot Cu, Cu, Cu, 2 shot, Cu with PAN UP TO THE FRICKING NYC tiimeline.

And my closeups and the head room are framed EXACTLY like many of teh exanples on the page you put up with the top of teh head slightly cropped ... the CLASSIC "WARNER BROS." CLOSE UP.

John every scene in my movie has a wide and a two shot in some form except for the apartment interrior. (and the unconventional mom scene)

Tomorrow If I have time I'll go through and post identically framed examples from my movie and the site you put up, but here's a few in the interum
http://www.widescreen.org/examples/neverending_story/neverending_8l.jpg

http://www.widescreen.org/examples/lord_rings_rotk/rotk_07l.jpg

http://frenchquarterfeatures.com/hands.gif

http://www.widescreen.org/examples/lord_rings_rotk/rotk_19l.jpg

http://frenchquarterfeatures.com/joel2.gif

http://frenchquarterfeatures.com/jessie.gif

http://www.widescreen.org/examples/last_crusade/crusade_6l.jpg

http://frenchquarterfeatures.com/two-shot-roof-2.gif
want some more world in the shot? here ya go
http://frenchquarterfeatures.com/two-roof1.gif

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 11:09 PM

and here's some more mise en scene

http://frenchquarterfeatures.com/cityscape.gif

the scene is kind of bursting with world

conrad_johnson

06-08-2006, 11:10 PM

I kind of meant that as two different ideas: the framing is a little tight for my taste and some of the chins were cut, I didn't mean alot-my fault
the one that really bothered me was at 3.42 when he says "I'm sorry"
The shot of the asian guy at the beginning seemed to me to be inbetween a cu and an ecu but thats total picky opinion.
Sorry to be misleading, i'ts easy to throw around "alot" and "always" and "never":)

Matt Sconce

06-08-2006, 11:17 PM

and here's some more mise en scene

http://frenchquarterfeatures.com/cityscape.gif

the scene is kind of bursting with world

awesome examples!! Rock on!:nads:

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 11:20 PM

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-08-2006, 11:25 PM

awesome examples!! Rock on!:nads:

John and Edgen have a point the film does feel claustrohpobic ... but it doesn't come from me not having a clue how to frame 4:3.

And John is clearly wrong about their being too little headroom in my shots as a rule. Some times a closeup is framed with a sliver of headroom at the top, and sometimes it crops the top of the actors head.

The claustrophobia comes from thinking it was cool to cover the mom scene with one angle (his lines are so few and it looked cool) I wanted to do it without any cuts but I had her improve some of teh dialogue and there were some nitpicky problems like starting two sentences in a row with "not that ..."
And then in the apartmenet scene we couldn't get anymore coverage because the shoot ended unexpectedly do to child actor issues.

So that scene with the mom scene cause the clausytrophobia, but everything else is framed and covered pretty standardly ...

And John I would argue you need just as much if not even more motivation for going wide than going to the CU ... because where's your story more likely to be ... in your actors eyes or in the building behind them ... sometimes the building but more often than not ...

I will say that after having this come up I think I could make better use of mediums more than anything else so that we get in close enough to see things play and then YES the CU becomes more motivated when we pop into it on that pivitol line.

And for the billionth time I acknowledge that there could be/should be more wide coverage in the flick.

Brandon Rice

06-08-2006, 11:29 PM

Ok... Here are two AMAZING shots in the first minute of the film... I've got to say this was a very well shot film.

http://www.noariceprod.com/bonehand1.jpg

http://www.noariceprod.com/bonehand2.jpg

Brandon Rice

06-08-2006, 11:31 PM

And for the billionth time I acknowledge that there could be/should be more wide coverage in the flick.

I don't know if I agree... I think you did a darn good job of coverage except for the mom scene... that's the only one I could see you didn't have coverage of... everything else worked for me.

Edgen

06-08-2006, 11:32 PM

John and Edgen have a point the film does feel claustrohpobic ... but it doesn't come from me not having a clue how to frame 4:3.

yes... And, I totally think it makes you feel that way, but at the grave.. man, that final opening up it gave me the chills and I could finally breath. So, to me the film was one big cliffhanger that got my heart racing and i didn't know what to think or do to escape and then KABlamo!!

I'm even thinking about doing something like that for my next film. It really fraks with your head and draws the energy out of you. I think its a great little 'extra' element to add to a film. I'm sure the music had something to do with it too. I just can't pin point it at the moment. Perhaps it was even the films dark nature that i'm not really used to and it takes place in the hustle bustle of a grungy surround that makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm from Kentucky and grew up in trees and open fields with ponds and lakes and frolic'd in the lush green grass.

errrr.. ya. :)

/j

J.R. Hudson

06-08-2006, 11:47 PM

And John is clearly wrong

John is simply stating his opinion Jack. :lipsrseal

And John I would argue

There's no argument. In the end, it is your film and therefore your decision.

Clearly.

-

Signing out. :undecided

TimurCivan

06-08-2006, 11:49 PM

Ok... Here are two AMAZING shots in the first minute of the film... I've got to say this was a very well shot film.

http://www.noariceprod.com/bonehand1.jpg

http://www.noariceprod.com/bonehand2.jpg

Cough cough.. thank you.... haha.

You know the funny thing is we forgot to do multiples of a few shots, like the bike ride, which is why jack had to chop it up in post and add a pan.

Also the the shot of Easter climbing over the fence in the cemetary before she morphs to SHEbonehand. ( is that her name? EasterBone? anyway....) After the fact we looked over the footage to find that it was the only take we did. and even then i think it was an accident cause i was still adjusting exposure and framing. we were calling her over to get her out of frame for the other actress into position. lucky we were rolling cause some mean jewish cemetary securty guards were chasing us out of the joint. This should all be in the BTS.

Also the mom scene, was difficlut cause of how dam narrow the hallway was and the letus was losing so much light we couldn't use the 28mm lens to get a wider shot even with 1000W of light.

Mark Harris

06-08-2006, 11:49 PM

My God, is this what we've come to? Cropping the chin in two shot.s? It;'s a gojod thing I came backl toi ths thread druink.

Brandon Rice

06-08-2006, 11:50 PM

John is simply stating his opinion Jack. :lipsrseal

There's no argument. In the end, it is your film and therefore your decision.

Clearly.

-

Signing out. :undecided

It's ALL subjective :):Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

Brandon Rice

06-08-2006, 11:51 PM

Cough cough.. thank you.... haha.

Absolutely... the composition, colors, and angle of almost every shot is really awesome.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-09-2006, 12:07 AM

Ok... Here are two AMAZING shots in the first minute of the film... I've got to say this was a very well shot film.

...

http://www.noariceprod.com/bonehand2.jpg
but I screwed this one up with the whole crazy edit thing ... I dropped a closeup of qui in that's just rediculously too quick over the front half of it in my last minute insecurity and boredoem with an edit that had been around forever - so now this shot is so quick it, and all its mise en scene, is really on screen too quick to register.

Oh well ... there's always the DVD.

Brandon Rice

06-09-2006, 12:09 AM

but I screwed this one up with the whole crazy edit thing ... I dropped a closeup of qui in that's just rediculously too quick over the front half of it in my last minute insceuroty and boredoem with an edit that had been around forever - so now this shot is so quick it, and all its mise en scene, is really on screen too quick to register.

Oh well ... there's always the DVD.

I see what you're saying... Yeah, maybe hold on the shot a bit longer... But, I still think your movie looks good! :)

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-09-2006, 12:16 AM

John is simply stating his opinion Jack. :lipsrseal

I said as wrong as rule - meaning that in every instance my closeups are framed with too little headroom, as per the examples you posted where the top of the head is often cropped.

There's no argument. In the end, it is your film and therefore your decision.
Clearly.
-
Signing out. :undecided
I meant argument as in discussion.

Sorry.

Dahopafilms

06-09-2006, 12:39 AM

OK. It's late, I'm tired and irritable and my favourite dog is recovering from surgery. And now I'm going to show my age.

A number of years back, a Kubrick film came out called Barry Lyndon. I saw it in the theatre. First release run. And no, I'm not in a walker yet.

The hype surrounding Barry Lyndon at the time was that (basically) if the technology existed and if people could look at the film frame-by-frame, each frame was a work of art in and of itself and was a gallery-suitable image. Well, people couldn't look at it frame-by-frame at the time - that simply wasn't an option because VHS and Betamax home video recorders were still a few years off and "renting a movie" was unheard of. Ahhhhh. Those were the days.

But you know, the film looked beautiful (even if film-goers couldn't pick it apart frame-by-frame). Whether the story and Ryan O'Neal's performance matched the cinematography is another question.

But we went to the movie, experienced it, and chatted about it later. Had today's technology been available then, I wonder how much time and energy would have been spent by the audience trying to find the exceptions to the "every frame's a masterpiece" hype.

To fast forward to Bone Hand, I sincerely wonder what the comments regarding JDS' excellent film would be if we all could only watch it once or twice, on a big screen, no pauses or freeze frames. If we simply didn't have the ability to (perhaps over-) analyse it by picking it apart frame-by frame.

I am not criticizing those who are reviewing Bone Hand in close scrutiny. I'm learning from the discussion. But personally, sometimes I just want to sit back, let the film (and the other films in this festival) envelope me and then react accordingly. And maybe that's what makes me a member of an audience rather than a cinematographer.

But I truly hope that JDS and talented people like him keep making films just like this. Not for the cinematographers, but for the audience.

Because when you make a film for the audience it doesn't have to be perfect. Just perfectly entertaining.

And in my book, Bone Hand was all of that.

Thanks Jack.

Brandon Rice

06-09-2006, 12:43 AM

well said...well said...

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-09-2006, 01:04 AM

I appreciate that guys.

whew ... what a thread, but I think I've really REALLY ticked off Hudson.

... John I'm really sorry.

I know you had the best intentions.

I should have PMed you rather than buck up here.

You're one of my favorite things about this site and I've always enjoyed your feedback.

I think you have been the first to post in my thread for every DVXuser fest I've enetered and that's a tradition that I hope continues.

I'm sorry I took your enthusiasm for Bone Hand and passionate dicussion of filmmaking as harping. I know that's not where you were coming from, and that you've always been in my corner, and I hope you'll let it slide and join us here again.

It's not DVXuser Fest without you.

Please come back and call me an asshat.

- Jack

Aaron Marshall

06-09-2006, 04:00 AM

Dahopa, that was an incredible post. I've had the same thing tumbling around in my head but I couldn't put it into words.

I see John Hudson's point for sure. Although, I just think it depends on the style of your piece, or just your style period. When Kim Manners would direct episodes of the XFiles, the CU shots of Scully and Mulder would almost always lop the tops of their heads right off. It was a stylistic choice. It brought more focus on the eyes and created a sense of urgency. I say do whatever the hell you want whenever you want if you feel it the right choice instinctively, even if you're wrong to other people. It's what you feel. If you're a good director, which you are, it will pull itself into balance.

HybridCreations

06-09-2006, 04:00 AM

Well even if it has gotten a bit contentious in here, the discussion has been very informative for me and I'm sure many others here. It's very easy to take things out of context when having a discussion like this but I think the give-n-take is essential, even if some ego's may have been bruised. In the end, it doesn't really matter. My point is that I thank you both (and everyone else) for posting in the public forum.

jpbankesmercer

06-09-2006, 08:27 AM

Every time you make a film your ego gets bruised.:)

sean90291

06-09-2006, 09:08 AM

Jack, you're a very talented cinematographer and visual stylist. You created some really amazing imagery, and the concept overall was great. But this film ultimately suffered from the same shortcoming every other film in the Herofest suffered from--a weak script. Many films in Herofest ended up getting a 9 or 10 out of 10 for SOMETHING (lighting, score, acting...whatever). But not a one in my opinion got even close to a 7 for script. I'd give Bonehand a 3 or 4 for script. A lot of it was expositional (like when the little girl is asking what the bone-hand does and how it works). I think you'd be surprised how much the audience would understand just from your excellent visuals without the corny exposition. I didn't notice any weird framing, as others have mentioned. You even got a decent performance out of a young kid, which isn't easy to do at all! Yes, I thought it looked just awesome. But the script was just cringe-worthy.

conrad_johnson

06-09-2006, 12:39 PM

My God, is this what we've come to? Cropping the chin in two shot.s? It;'s a gojod thing I came backl toi ths thread druink.
Boo.
This forum is about filmmakers posting their work and having it scrutinized by their peers.
It does not help Jack to tell him how much better his movie is than everyone else's.
It's nice to hear compliments... i'ts imperative to hear criticism.

Isaac_Brody

06-09-2006, 12:42 PM

Boo.
This forum is about filmmakers posting their work and having it scrutinized by their peers.
It does not help Jack to tell him how much better his movie is than everyone else's.
It's nice to hear compliments... i'ts imperative to hear criticism.

:smiley_up Bingo :smiley_up

Chris Messineo

06-09-2006, 01:40 PM

Jack,

I haven't read this whole thread so I am probably repeating stuff, but just wanted to share my thoughts.

First, this is definitely one of my favorite films in the contest.

I love the look of it most of all, your sense of style.

I liked the story, better than "Odd Squad" not as good as "Shed" .

Meanwhile, technically the film was great, comps, light, sound, music, effects. Impressive stuff.

The only other quibble would be that the girl's acting was a little rough around the edges.

Overall though, another great film.

Chris

Jarred Land

06-09-2006, 02:01 PM

guys play nice or im gonna kick this to the curb.

If you entered the fest and you started a thread in this section for feedback about your films, your gonna get feedback. People will tell you what they liked and what they didnt like. If you cant handle critisism, then PM me to remove your film from this thread... simple as that.

Everyones gotta learn to take critisim.. its the way it works in the real world when you get your film out there. Think of it as practice when you get 300 letters of rejection from a sales agent for a film your trying to sell... and those letters can be alot worse than any of the comments here.

You gu

Weston

06-09-2006, 03:12 PM

Its wierd how there ends up being a film....or really....a thread that stirs up all kinds of trouble with these fests. Last time with Similo, and this time Bonehand.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-09-2006, 03:13 PM

Guys if I have been innaproriate in handling the feedback in anyway I am truly and deeply sorry.

This is a lot of attention to handle at once -- a lot more than I had to deal with in either of the previous two contests.

While I appreciate those of you who kind of stuck up for me when it seemed like maybe things were getting too picky, lets all just chill.

I love this place, really, and its been the sole source of inspiration and filmmaking knowledge for me since I began shooting 9 months ago.
As I said I have learned many things here. I guess this experience is another example.

Thanks to everyone who commented on my film in anyway.

I hope everyone has a great rest of the fest,

Jack

TimurCivan

06-09-2006, 03:28 PM

Ths film was very much Mr Daniels baby.

He drove himslef to the breaking point to finish it. I respect him for finihsing it, flaws and all. I think we can afford him the right to defend his choices because of how hard he worked to complete it. ( however minute the flaws may be.)

All my best to everyone here-
Timur Civan :)

sean90291

06-09-2006, 04:38 PM

Learning to take criticisms is part of filmmaking for sure. It's never easy. But I think it gets easier. Ultimately, once the film is done, it's not yours anymore. It's the audience's. And if they don't "get it" or there's something that doesn't work for them, well there's really no argument. It just is. Then again, if there's all kinds of things "wrong" with it and it makes $150 million at the box office, you can't argue with that either (praise be to George Lucas).

TimurCivan

06-09-2006, 05:01 PM

Then again, if there's all kinds of things "wrong" with it and it makes $150 million at the box office, you can't argue with that either (praise be to George Lucas).

Hahaa!

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-09-2006, 09:08 PM

this was one of my favs (tied first place on my ballot :D). had a very unique feel to it. only thing i didn't quite like were the fast edits, but that doesnt matter in the grand scheme anyways. excellent job!
yeah I kind of went over board at the latst minute.
hope to tone down for teh DVD
thanks for your comments.

Sorry if this is repetitive - can't begin to read all your posts.

Very good job. This is one of the few that effortlessly kept my attention throughout, which is no small feat because I have ADHD.

So pros -
The one above was a major pro.
overall, i liked your choice of muted colors throughout
loved the city shots
loved how you broke up the cemetery scene with some dark in the left frame
loved the 2 shot of bonehand and girl on top of the building at the beginning
so in short, lots of neat shots.
very high quality overall

cons -
a lot of the framing was too tight, cutting off the chin.
title shots - the shot of the hand, with musical accompaniment, totally felt like that old show that was on nickelodeon when i was a kid - "are you afraid of the dark". It took me out of the story too much.
overall, i'd like to see slicker photography - not so many unconventional angles, jump cuts, etc. i understand you're going for a style here, but it becomes a little off-putting. a simple shot-reverse shot to make me forget I'm watching a movie someone made would be nice.
hallway scene with mom and bone hand - whoah. that confused me. again, shot-reverse shot would be nice.

that said - good work! i genuinely think you did a great job. you've definitely got a style going that works for you.
Thanks Conrad - we've talked about the framing some. I think part of what is going on is that I'm framing more for TV than film - so that's something good to realize and watch out for.

Jack, you're a very talented cinematographer and visual stylist. You created some really amazing imagery, and the concept overall was great. But this film ultimately suffered from the same shortcoming every other film in the Herofest suffered from--a weak script. Many films in Herofest ended up getting a 9 or 10 out of 10 for SOMETHING (lighting, score, acting...whatever). But not a one in my opinion got even close to a 7 for script. I'd give Bonehand a 3 or 4 for script. A lot of it was expositional (like when the little girl is asking what the bone-hand does and how it works). I think you'd be surprised how much the audience would understand just from your excellent visuals without the corny exposition. I didn't notice any weird framing, as others have mentioned. You even got a decent performance out of a young kid, which isn't easy to do at all! Yes, I thought it looked just awesome. But the script was just cringe-worthy.
tahnks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Jack,

I haven't read this whole thread so I am probably repeating stuff, but just wanted to share my thoughts.

First, this is definitely one of my favorite films in the contest.

I love the look of it most of all, your sense of style.

I liked the story, better than "Odd Squad" not as good as "Shed" .

Meanwhile, technically the film was great, comps, light, sound, music, effects. Impressive stuff.

The only other quibble would be that the girl's acting was a little rough around the edges.

Overall though, another great film.

Chris thanks chris, glad you liked it I respect your opinion

thanks for commenting everyone,

Jack

Kaz

06-09-2006, 09:33 PM

MOVIE STUNTS

06-09-2006, 09:34 PM

Man I think your films are cool! Top notch in my book. I'd like to see some full length flicks from you. Excellent job!!!

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-09-2006, 09:42 PM

Jack, great flick brutha! I love that you never forget to give your story heart. What's the point of cool FX and action if you couldn't give two craps about the characters?

Also cool, was seeing THE MAN acting in this one. You couldn't get me to do that in one of my films with a gun to my head. But hey, where was that FX shot you wanted me to do? Thought I'd see it in there...

Anyways, this is one of the tops so far in this contest for me (7 more to go). Well done!

thanks man ... no time for that VFX shot either in production or in the film ... it woulda been super cool though.

yeah me being in it was kind of last minute replacement sort of deal

I had to dub part of my lines because when I counted I said

wuh-un .... tuh-hoo ...
with a real texas twang, lol.

Man I think your films are cool! Top notch in my book. I'd like to see some full length flicks from you. Excellent job!!!
from your mouth to God's ears brother :)

thanks for taking the time to leave feedback guys.

- Jack

DerrickTempleton

06-10-2006, 12:14 AM

The little girl's performance and dialogue took me out of the film. I really wanted to like it because of the 35mm adapter, but I just couldn't get past the girl. It looked like she was holding back a smile when she got shot. And the beginning exposition scene with her was painful for me to sit through. I know little kids are a challenge to direct, but she wasn't up to par with the rest of the film.

That first scene in the rain was just so good. It seemed so pro to me. I think that's your problem, you set my expectations soooooo high in the beginning, that the rest couldn't compete.

I've read some of the previous pages here (didn't go through all of them), and I just want to clarify that I have no hostile intentions here. I'm probably being harder on you than some of the other films because I see your talent, and simply saying "good job" isn't gonna help.

conradcliff

06-10-2006, 12:35 AM

Liked the flick. Rain scene was deffinately HQ.

heisest

06-10-2006, 07:04 AM

I haven't read the other posts.... but the two before mine. (Couldn't help it they were on the last page) But I was moved to tears by this movie. What you did worked! The only incongruety (and was mentioned) was the one shot of the girl where she looked like she was smiling. I think she was trying for a grimice but it didn't work. She did a really good job in all but that one... which was to be the more emotional one. I really liked the camera work... the editing. And the story line was a 10 in my view.

Yours was the best of the bunch overall. Just my take though.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-10-2006, 07:44 AM

thanks for your comments all.

heisest ... can you give me counter # for the smile ... its been mentioned a few times and there is one smile that's on purpose, and then one that's at the end of a take that I don't think is noticeable ...

I think maybe I'm missing it because I know what was cut out of the rest of that shot and the rest wasn't a smile or something,

it should be an easy fix for the DVD so I'd llike to know exactly where ...

Brandon Rice

06-10-2006, 08:15 AM

I guess this MIGHT be what everyone is talking about.

http://www.noariceprod.com/smile.jpg

She's supposed to smile at the end though, after Joe saves her. I showed this film to a buddy of mine, and he actually mentioned he thought the death scene was VERY realistic. After watching it again, I gotta say... well done Jack... 9 months of doing this and you have this film to show for it... you have a lot to be proud of... I've been doing it seriously for about two years and have not made anything near this good. Bravo!

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-10-2006, 08:22 AM

yeah, that's the one that's supposed to be there -- which I need to reconsider if its not playing (which it seems like its not) idea is supposed to be she just made a joke (I shoulda gone home) and is trying to be strong for his benefit.

I think its cut up too much for that to play though ... so if that's not the one you mean heisfest let me know ...

to clarify I'm not tryong to be defensive -- quite the contrary I'm asking for clarification so I can pinpoint what's not working and fix it for the DVD

Brandon Rice

06-10-2006, 08:26 AM

to clarify I'm not tryong to be defensive -- quite the contrary I'm asking for clarification so I can pinpoint what's not working and fix it for the DVD

righto... well... it's a darn good film my friend.

heisest

06-10-2006, 11:46 AM

heisest ... can you give me counter # for the smile ... its been mentioned a few times and there is one smile that's on purpose, and then one that's at the end of a take that I don't think is noticeable ...

3:43... Yep he got it.
It can be a joke.... but most people wouldn't/couldn't smile with that pain.
I don't know where you got her but she was great... (except that part)
Again it got my top vote.

Larry Rutledge

06-10-2006, 12:12 PM

I've been reading through all the comments and I have to disagree with most about the "smile". When I saw it I immediately connected it with the joke...to me it showed the girl was extremely strong of character and prepared me for the transition at the end when she became the new Bone Hand.

Personally, I think the smile fit her character perfectly.

Norm Sanders

06-10-2006, 02:38 PM

Jack, I just realized when you said you've only been doing this for 9 months, it's the same for me, as Zombie Fest was my first attempt as well, though NOTHING in comparison with SHED.

Hope you didn't take offense when I had said I liked ODD SQUAD better ... I just thought it was a killer cool story, and still dig it to this day. BONE HAND was visually great as well, and still had a cool story, though it's more visual eye candy for me. That said, I didn't think the script was weak or anything ... just LOVED ODD SQUAD, that's all.

As far as the comments on cutting off the chins, etc. ... I just don't get it. To me, as long as the eyes are framed 1/3 from the top, who cares what else is being cut off? I was just watching some trailers and time after time I saw foreheads, chins, etc. getting cropped out of frame ... ESPECIALLY on 2.35:1 ratios. Oh well, not looking to start an argument on this subject (as it looked like there was one for a while), but all that to say I thought the framing & camera work were solid.

EDIT: That said, now get on over & view my film & give some feedback, would ya'?! :) I've made it easy for you, just click on the banner below. I'm hoping to get through all the rest of the films & comments today ... hope you're able to do the same, friend, though I know it's been tough having to keep up with your run away thread (congrats, BTW).

TimurCivan

06-10-2006, 02:40 PM

I was just watching some trailers and time after time I saw foreheads, chins, etc. getting cropped out of frame ... ESPECIALLY on 2.35:1 ratios. Oh well, not looking to start an argument on this subject (as it looked like there was one for a while), but all that to say I thought the framing & camera work were solid.

Isnt that called a warner brothers CU? when you cut off a part of the face?

Norm Sanders

06-10-2006, 02:43 PM

Never heard it called that before, but it's simple logic that the more you want the eyes to fill the frame, the more other things will be cut out. No idea what people are talking about with the whole cut off thing, unless the eyes weren't properly framed, which I never saw stand out to me as an issue.

FlintMI

06-10-2006, 02:51 PM

Jack's Odd Squad was such a big film for many of us. By many accounts it may very well have been the DVXUser.com version of The Beatles on Ed Sullivan. From testimonials all over this board, it spawned countless people into action.

Simply put, Bonehand is an amateur film masterpiece. Considering the insurmountable odds against it, such as: zero-budget; all-volunteer cast and crew; child actor; New York City location; and much more, it's a perfect example of how amateur filmmaking can be done with you have the right stuff.

Norm Sanders

06-10-2006, 03:11 PM

Keep in mind, FlintMI, that everyone was pretty much up against the same odds, with the exception of the child actor, and that would only be if their script called for it. From the sounds of it, the folks in LA had a MUCH tougher time getting locations than the folks in NY.

Not to discount BONE HAND or Jack's work at all, but it's not like this was the bastard step child that had all odds against it to do what it did (i.e. a Cincerella Story). Jack's just VERY good at what he does, and was able to take the same tools (and odds) as the rest of us and turn out what he did, which was some great work.

WilderWorks

06-10-2006, 03:48 PM

I'm going to make an odd comment, which will likely get me run out of town on a rail. I think your movie and mine, J.U.L, are polar opposites, and a perfect demonstration of how taste really *does* affect the regard these movies are held in. Yours involves a heartfelt sacrifice made for a needy child. Ours says that heartfelt gestures, particularly for needy children, are ridiculously funny movie moments, because they're so false.

This occurred to me because, let me be honest, I laughed aloud when the child is on the couch dying. It was just too much. To me, it was an exaggeration worthy of Kids in the Hall film shorts. HOWEVER, at the same time, the audience at large invested in that archetype, and that's a success. Meanwhile, they wanted our film to invest in the same archetype, the one that it's sending up, and they had problems with it because they wanted to get what they expected. I find that fascinating.

For me and my sort, it takes a long time, and a lot of film, to build up to that sort of moment (the child dying). It takes even longer to build up to a heartfelt self-sacrifice. Six minutes, some of which are spent in an alley-fight, just can't do it. It's so sentimental and so quickly mind-blowingly dramatic, my reaction is laughter. And that's the truth. I hope you will take it in the spirit of honesty and open discussion that it's offered.

So, I congratulate you on having found your audience. But I must express my sincere critique: there's another half of the audience, like me, that find this sort of thing maudlin, and the transition from superhero to dying child an example of humorous bathos. I don't think this sort of story is appropriate for this length of format, and that a lot of its emotional success is dependent on the archetypal baggage that the audience brings to it, which means it isn't saying anything new about life, or critiquing any of the lies we're told about it. It's trotting out the familiar morality play and harkening to our existing investment in it.

Thus, my critique is a purely writerly one. Tell me something true (drama), or point out a lie (comedy). Otherwise, when you make a play at profound, I'm going to laugh.

(EDIT & PS: Yours is CERTAINLY not the only example of this problem that I have, but it's the most important, and the most likely to get the matter throught about and discussed)

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-10-2006, 11:39 PM

3:43... Yep he got it.
It can be a joke.... but most people wouldn't/couldn't smile with that pain.
I don't know where you got her but she was great... (except that part)
Again it got my top vote.

I've been reading through all the comments and I have to disagree with most about the "smile". When I saw it I immediately connected it with the joke...to me it showed the girl was extremely strong of character and prepared me for the transition at the end when she became the new Bone Hand.

Personally, I think the smile fit her character perfectly.

Well whether its plausible or not or if som peopl get it or not, It's not playing for enough people I think ... so I need to look at an alternate take to get at the same thing or I may need to show more of that take -- in other words the transition from thr previous acting beat so we see her attempt at putting on a brave face ... of course there has to be a cut in there somewhere because we tip toe in and fill her mouth with strawberry syrup in the middle of the take.

Her smiling was a problem though because she liked the actor playing bone hand so much ... she smiled at him almost all the time, so some of the best takes are when she was tired and getting grumpy, because even Joel couldn't make her smile then, lol.

Thanks for the comments all. I'll look at massaging the smile thing for the DVD.

Aaron Marshall

06-10-2006, 11:51 PM

Ya see, I just don't get the gripe about the smile. I think it adds something to it. Not everything has to be parallel or going toward the same goal. Sometimes a bit of irony, or conflicting moods and gestures fit.

I barely noticed it, and only after it was mentioned.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-10-2006, 11:58 PM

I gonna look at why it might not be working and see if I can fix that ...

if I can't do that then I may cut it, because it seems to take away more than it adds for the people who don't get or buy it.

Aaron Marshall

06-11-2006, 12:20 AM

I should have said, "I barely noticed it, and only after it was mentioned. Even after that it didn't bother me. If anything it let me feel another layer of what was happening.".

If you were a kid and dying why wouldn't your last moment be happy? Maybe she saw "the white light at the end of the tunnel" or something?

I wouldn't change it. If people can't digest it, that's not your problem. I'd just make my work and call it a lock when it's finished. Unless you are truly uncertain about it to start with, but were you? It seems like you had a distinct vision. I wouldn't homogenize it for the sake of a wider audience.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-11-2006, 12:42 AM

...If you were a kid and dying why wouldn't your last moment be happy? Maybe she saw "the white light at the end of the tunnel" or something?
lol ... I think really really they would go apeshit. Screaming and nashing teeth and nothing happy about it at all fighting to the last moment. But that would have freaked my neighbors out.

I'm glad you like the moment, but I am making these (hopefully) for a wider audience and if it doesn't "make" the movie for me, then i might as well see what a different take or part of that take might do, or playing it without cutting to her there. Who knows, maybe I'll like that 100X's better anyway, or I may choose to keep it as is.

thanks again, man

Brandon Rice

06-11-2006, 01:10 AM

Wow Jack, over 200 replies in this thread... must be something good here :)

Ben Sliker

06-11-2006, 11:46 AM

JDS,
Since I'm a little late trying to get comments in, I don't think i can say anything original or helpful here, but congrats on not only a great film, but churning out consistently great films for these contests. I look forward to whatever you come up with next.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-11-2006, 08:02 PM

I think what I'll cook up next is a break :)

FlintMI

06-11-2006, 09:55 PM

Keep in mind, FlintMI, that everyone was pretty much up against the same odds, with the exception of the child actor, and that would only be if their script called for it. From the sounds of it, the folks in LA had a MUCH tougher time getting locations than the folks in NY.

"LA headshot" = when the LAPD cop sees you filming and gives you his picture and agent's card.

"NYC headshot" = when the NYPD cop cracks you over the head with his graphite-titanium nightstick and takes your camera gear while you "find your permit" on the bus to Riker's Island.

Alliq

06-11-2006, 10:04 PM

While I thought the film was technically very good, it didn't do much for me in terms of creativity of vision. The nature of the superhero's powers were awesome, but the other main characters (the mother and the child) felt to me, strikingly cliche'd, to the point of allegory. Although it's possible that it was an allegory, and I'm just an idiot. What did those characters represent?
Also, the nature of the special effects (kind of green and floaty) didn't seem to go with the rest of the visuals.

Ramon Boutviseth

06-11-2006, 10:55 PM

Hey dude, love the beginning, I thought that was a good intro to the movie. The style of cutting works well here but for scenes where its suppose to be touching like the end, I saw a little bit of that style. I don't think it fits there. But other than that... it rocks, we'll see ya again at horrorfest hopefully!

Cryogenic Filmworks

06-12-2006, 02:19 AM

Jack, overall I really liked this from top to bottom. Not sure what I could add to the discussion other than to say kudos. Really good job. As for some of the neg comments frankly some people are too sensitive these days. Shit happens and sometimes it is used to tell a story in a movie.
:thumbsup:

!FICARRA!

06-12-2006, 10:47 AM

J Dan,

Congratulations! Having seen all the hard work and time (did you ever sleep?) it's great to see it come to such a splendid conclusion. You are one talented MF.

A crazy weekend in the rain and cold were totally worth it. Still wish we had sprayed guts on the wall? Mmmmm guts.

You better win this one beezach.

TimurCivan

06-12-2006, 11:49 AM

john?

capitalP

06-12-2006, 01:48 PM

I think what I'll cook up next is a break :)

Are you serious Jack! No Horrofest entry...? I hope you haven't let this thread put you down... if you really wanna take a break cause ur tired... then understandable.

And also, in my view... the publicity you're getting of this thread is priceless... whether people love, hate or like Bonehand, the big thing is, people are watching and talking about it and that my friend is what all film makers want.

One last thing, about that smile with the little girl, that Pic Briceman put up is not the one I think people are talking about, it's the smile when she spits out the blood.. maybe I'll try and get a Pic up.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-12-2006, 04:26 PM

lol, I'm having a great time are you kidding ...

Horror Fest is a ways a way and I'm intrigued but no commitments yet.

Mostly I meant a break for the next little while here while i recharge my batteries.

Thanks for the replies all.

I'll see if there's any questions or stuff I need to respond to later. (I'm gigging today - as in right now - and tomorrow)

- Jack

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-13-2006, 06:13 AM

Alex DePew

06-13-2006, 11:45 PM

Jack,
I'm late in getting to the show! I won't rehash the stuff that's been brought up.

I really think you have a definable look to your films. They are genuinely yours. Bonehand is a solid entry in this competition and I know it will do very well. You are one of the most looked up to guys on this board and for good reason. Keep makin films you talented bastid you!

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-14-2006, 09:51 AM

Alex DePew

06-14-2006, 10:17 AM

Thanks for the vote of confidence and congrats on your film as well.

We need to get several of us together and spend a day in the park figuring out how to use my various stabilizers so next time you or Mark or Timur barrow one you can get more bang of it, and so I can learn how to use them too (which I have no clue about either). Stabilizers are good things to share because they have no electronics or glass :) :thumbsup:

I'm definitely down. And they are really useful, but only if we can operate them! Since all you guys are in Brooklyn, I'm willing to go out that way and grab some Grimaldi's pizza and some ice cream and then we can test them out over by the Brooklyn Bridge. Sound good?

Mark Harris

06-14-2006, 10:19 AM

We need to get several of us together and spend a day in the park figuring out how to use my various stabilizers so next time you or Mark or Timur barrow one you can get more bang of it, and so I can learn how to use them too (which I have no clue about either). Stabilizers are good things to share because they have no electronics or glass :) :thumbsup:

"...tonight, here, we are all warriors! It is a time to celebrate, for tomorrow we may die. Not a time to worry about Stablizers!"

http://www.desperatecomfort.com/working/kurn.jpg

Okay, I am a geek. Move along.

Brandon Rice

06-14-2006, 10:35 AM

Haha... today is a good day to die!

HybridCreations

06-14-2006, 11:06 AM

Stabilizers are in the pipeline for an upcoming NYC DVXUser Meeting. A day in the park sounds like a lovely idea...

Alex DePew

06-14-2006, 11:19 AM

"...tonight, here, we are all warriors! It is a time to celebrate, for tomorrow we may die. Not a time to worry about Stablizers!"

Okay, I am a geek. Move along.

Since you changed your avatar to you holding a shotgun you needed to remind everyone that you are still a harcore trekkie. And a militant one at that!:kali:

hemichic

06-14-2006, 06:03 PM

Am relatively new to posting; been involved with the industry though. Enjoyed your short. Especially enjoyed that you didn't choose to explain the reason for his "superhero-ness." You simply told a story using stolen moments from his life.

Nicely done.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-15-2006, 12:01 AM

Thanks to my cast and crew all ...

but here's a shout out specifically to the guys (and lady) on the forum that made this little flick possible.

There were no less than 12 DVXusers who collaborated in some official capacity or donated goods or services to Bone Hand (that # has to be a record right?). There are many more that warrant thanks ... but here in the forum I'll just hank the people you know and let you know some of the ways they contributed to the film.

so ... thank you and congrats to ...

MSMANHATTAN
Produced two of the top five (RfEyeD and Bone Hand) Her enthusiasm and resourcefulness really brought the piece together and she was responsible for finding the a great kid after I was dumb enough to write a script centered around one.
ARAM BAUMAN
in addition to pulling a top 5 film out of his arse with killer VFX at the last minute, Aram saved our asses by figuring out how to light the roof scene without electrocuting everyone when we lost the light (all of it) on our first day of shooting and then it rained covering the roof in 2 inches of water. We just would have lost that day if he hadn't figured out a brilliant plan of shooting light out of the stairwell and bouncing onto a series of sun reflectors. Also he's largely responsible for the look of Bone Hand's apartment interior. It was one of those very collaborative Head Gaffer and DP collaborations where I described the look of the scene and a few specific effects and then he just went to town lighting it on his own an adding shape and dept. He did way better than I could have done on my own.
TIMUR CIVAN
Shot most of the movie and was there every single shoot for every second that I was. Timur shot the opening rain sequence for example. At the end of that shoot he looked like he had jumped into a swimming pool fully clothed. Timur was tireless and constantly found new ways to contribute and improve what we were doing and was absolutely fantastic to be around 110% of the time. He's talented, tireless, and a good egg. In my previous two films (all shot by me) the camera was much lighter and flew around a lot, but Timur was able to operate in a way that added weight and felt more cinematic.
HERMAN WITKAM
of course provided music that totally helped tell the story and totally rocked. Herman was great to work with. We did three drafts of the score, and I think each had 10 or more pages of notes for him, but he just turned them around and came back implementing everything awesomely. I'm a tough date in the score department and Herman never blinked and I never detected any frustration in our communication. He just took the notes and did the work and got everything back on time.
TEXTURE
did the Audio Sweetening and it made a huge difference. He really knew what he was doing and where I would have just turned the volume up and down on different tracks he skillfully notched out frequencies in the ambient beds / etc. that conflicted with the human voice and was just able to clean up a lot of the location sound. I think he is working with Dahopa on the DVD version of his flick, and he will probably be inundated after this but hit him up for your project - he loves story and filmmaking.
TC
did a great job with the title design and animation. I kept getting the note on other things that my titles were lacking and I had a lot on my plat with this one so I hit him up because I knew he would deliver, and he did. Also he allowed me to use a clip from his Zombie Fest entry THE LIVING'S END (the axe to the head when the little girl's watching TV) thanks man!!!
FLINT MI
Allowed us to shoot on his roof and was just a great gut to have around on set and toss ideas around in the editing room, he also shot some BTS.
ALEX DEPEW
Shot a ton of BTS and was also great to have around especially on the roof shoot.
REZFACTOR (the member formerly known as "N... (something) ... Shooter"
Allowed us to use an awesome and gory clip from his Zombie Fest entry INFECTION
(the guy getting shot in the head on the TV). Thank you sir.
COFFEE
Lent us his Letus35 to use along side mine. Thanks man!

and last but by no means least,
JOHN HUDSON
hooked us up with all of the Bone Hand sunglasses FOR FREE through his wife Flora's
Designer sunglass company Somatic
http://somaticoptics.com/
Thanks John. And thanks for all your input and support from wayback and up through this contest.

BRICEMAN, EVISION, and ISAAC BRODY didn't work on this film, but help keep me sane on a moment to moment basis (yes, believe it or not this is me relatively sane). Thanks guys.

And of course thanks to JARRED for giving these films a home, allolwing inspiration and knowledge to flourish like a mutant virus in zombie film, and for giving me a hard time (you bastid) :)

if I forgot anyone please forgive me ... it's late and I'm very tired ... please PM me and scream at me and I will update the post :thumbsup:

Kirk Gillock

06-15-2006, 12:31 AM

Congratulations, Jack. You are officially the King of the DVXfests. :) It's good to be the King.

TimurCivan

06-15-2006, 05:46 PM

:thumbsup:

soffcore

06-15-2006, 05:55 PM

Wow, great to see the collaborative spirit was in full effect for this production. There are SO MANY pieces that have to get put together in order to make a film (of any length); one person can't do it alone.

Congrats to all!

Texture

06-15-2006, 07:19 PM

LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING SOME AMAZING JIB SHOTS JDS!!!

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

jpsheets

06-20-2006, 10:19 AM

Nice Job Jack! Really liked the VFX. Little girl did a great job, I know how hard it is to find good child actors. Keep up the good work!

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-20-2006, 02:30 PM

thanks for the comments and continued views guys ...

the film has been updated slightly and linked below and from the first post in the thread, also available in as .wmv now.

(a few cuts deleted mostly as Isaac Brody's feedback and my own dissatisfaction, and some shots of the hallway have a little more head room as per John Hudson's feedback)

5 min 50 sec ... right-click QuickTime (http://www.frenchquarterfeatures.com/movies/Bone_Hand_Post_Contest.mov) or Windows Media (http://www.frenchquarterfeatures.com/movies/Bone_Hand_Post_Contest.wmv) to download and view

thanks again everyone :)

EDIT: If anyone wants to see the contest cut for comparison then PM me.

Brandon Rice

06-20-2006, 02:56 PM

Jack.... dude.... its awesome...

Isaac_Brody

06-20-2006, 03:10 PM

Looks good Jack. Only one little snafu. At about 3:50 minutes your 2:35 mask moves up for a split moment. Other than that the pacing and changes work really well.

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-20-2006, 03:28 PM

Looks good Jack. Only one little snafu. At about 3:50 minutes your 2:35 mask moves up for a split moment. Other than that the pacing and changes work really well.
D'oh :grin:

I'll fix that ... back to the drawing board.

I thought there was a missed acting beat in the Mom's performance (that's why I had the odd cuttaway there). When we were improvising she also started two sentences with "not that" which sounds wierd. But looking at it again I actually like her transition and I was able to edit the first "not that" during the cuttaway of the glove. But the initial intent was that I always thought it would be cool to do that short scene in one take.

On the to do list for the DVD remain the following:
shot of bonehand walking towards camera after he throws the death is too short ... for some reason Joe, my VFX pro, lost frames going from my FCP to his after effects back to my FCP
same thing in the end fight, shot of Bonehand knocking the tall thugs hand down is way too quick ... samething happened - we lost frames somehow and couldn't fix before contest.
Joe is gonna add some new VFX shots! when Bone Hand "lays hands" on Easter to bring her back to life.
gonna take another look at Easter's performance via the editing around the death scene.
make sure all the CC in the opening sequence matches more.
may see if I can get some more contrast in the hallway fight scene
may revisit the CC in the death sceneamazing what small changes can do
on the openening I ...
dropped a closeup of the delievery boy under the line "where's the money chink" (stays with the low angle with just the thugs legs in the frame now)
dropped one jump cut when BoneHand pulls his glove off
dropped the abrupt zooms on two closeups of the thugh on his lines "you and your chink boss gotta pay insurance just like every other gook ont the block." (I thought at one point that the abrupt zooms on "chink" and "gook" would make them clearer and then the punchline/button on the scene would play better -- live and learn right?) :)

EJ Pennypacker

06-21-2006, 11:14 AM

There were lots of things I liked about this production (story, CGI, color use, composition of some shots, mood, acting, humor) but wasn't there moments were the 180 rule was broke?

I'm sure I see one too many shots of the back of the head of Bone Hand man.

Was I wrong?

EJ

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-21-2006, 04:18 PM

Hey EJ,

thanks for taking another look and offering more feedback :)

... not sure what you mean exactly, though ... as its perfectly fine to show the back of the head - in other words that doesn't have much to do with crossing the line. In fact the rule goes that to cross the line without breaking "the rules" you must show the camera move across the line -- which often involves the camera moving behind one persons head from one shoulder to the other. As you remember the idea is that ist fine to cross the line on a move because it doesn't disorient the audience as they saw the move. What does disorient them is when the camera is on one side of the actors and then just cuts to the reverse and suddenly the profile of actor "A" has switched to the right side of the frame when it was formerly on the lefy and vice versa for actor "B". Now this is not to say that you can't cut to a reverse, you just can't cross the line.

In the opening fight scene for example, the Thug is always on the LEFT side of the frame and the Delivery Boy is always on the RIGHT side of the frame. But, particularly after the Thug is hit with the death cloud, there are lots of reverse shots which basically work like over the shoulder shots only they are full body. Since the camera is roughly at a 45 degree angle to "the line" you get the Thug's back as the Delivery Boy waves his hand in front of the Thug's eyes and the Delivery Boy's back as he picks up the stick etc. ... but the line is not crossed ... remember 180 degrees is half a circle so you can all the way behind someone with out crossing the center line between the two characters ... I'm sure you know all this ... but I go over it as your question doesn't make 100% sense to me.

We DO cross the line (i.e. the 180 rule) really only once (as far as I know), and that's at the end of the hallway fight after he sees the bullet holes in the door and then it cuts to the wide shot of the hallway to show him walking into the door (3 min 31 sec).

This was done so that when he left the hallway he would exit the left side of the frame and then enter the right side of frame in the apartement.

We have alaready established that angle of the wide shot where he walks through the door twice in that scene and it is on the correct side of the access in those two points.

When Bonehand stuffs the death into the bad guy and the the bad guy hits the floor however, the camera move crosses to the other side of the axis line ... again this is OK because we see it happen ... only bad when we don't see it happen because it's like the audience was picked up and placed on the other side of the scene.

No we DO cut back to the hallway and when he exits and we are suddenly on the OTHER side of Bone Hand. This was mosty done because that's the coverage we had and just how it went together best without another angle to go to, but I'm not sure I would do it different even if we did have that other angle ...

The 360 move around Bone Hand works well with the death stuffing because it starts on him then goes to the Thug and then is in place for the THug to fall and for Bone Hand to turn and see the door and the camera movement adds something to that moment.

Then, as I mentioned, we need him to exit left in order to enter right (as per another pesky film rule). I could have just had him walk out of frame from the closeup and into the next scene. But this, to me, was more disorienting as it would have him exit right, then enter right. I think it was less dissorienting to cut to the wide angle since we had already established it and that made it feel more like cutting to a reverse in an action scene.

now ...

The Mom Scene is framed ove the shoulder with Bone Hand's back to the camera. Once we started shooting on that day, I liked the idea more and more of doing that scene all in one take. We got everything we needed from it. We basically were seeing the Mom through Bone Hand's eyes at that point and his jaw just dipped into frame and was just profile enough to see his blurred lips moving with his dialogue. But again -- he was alwasy on the left side of the frame and she was always on the right ... so no 180 rule was broken even though we saw a lot of the back of his head in that scene.

Now the end of the mom scene ... is an interesting bit of discussion on this topic ... you could argue that the 180 line is crossed here, but I wouldn't count it as such ... here's why :
As Bone Hand walks down the hall, he drags the 180 line with him. So where it used to go from the door of the apartment to the wall across the hall (roughly) it now begins to stretch down the hall as he walks ... he begins on the left side of the frame but comes more and more center squishing the legal area to just the right side of the frame. Problem is, Mom still has a line after he walks off -- she's still back at the door. The only way to cut to her is to cross the new line that has been established by his cross down the hallway. There's just not another way to do it unless you covered him walking away from her with his back to the camera rather than walking into it. So why don'y I count this as crossing the line? IMHO, it's kind of more cutting between two locations at this point. He's moved into a new location where her dialogue is basically delivered O.S. and we do a cuttaway to the other locale for the delivery of that line.

So there is one time the line is for sure crossed at the end of the hallway fight scene and then one time it is arguably crossed at the end of the Mom scene. The fight end was done to not break another rule (and also you can cross the line to be intentionally jarring for dramatic purposes - as in his world just flip flopped on learning that she might be harmed) and then for the mom scene it was pretty much the only way.

Again as far as I know, nothing else even comes close to crossing the line other than those to shots.

lemme know if you have further questions or points of discussion on this

thanks for the feedback,

Jack

EJ Pennypacker

06-21-2006, 07:31 PM

Hey Jack,

Thank you for putting this puppy up on your site!

In answer to your Q.

2:30 in, we see a profile shot of BH. Why do we see a profile shot and not a full face one? I'm curious.

3:27 the fight scene looks like it breaks the 180 rule there for a moment - as you highlighted.

3:43 again, side of head shot with BH - why?

5:01 the quick shots seem to break the 180 rule (although I'd imagine you can get away with it with fast-cuts).

Also, LOVED the little homage to the ZombieFest thru the TV late night movies!

EJ

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-21-2006, 09:59 PM

Ah ... Ok .. you are asking two questions/making two crits
1)what about the 180 rule?
(discussed last post)
2) why so much profile etc, vs. honest to goodness cloesups of the hero?
Short answer = about 50% by design and about 50% by "woops".

Hey Jack,

Thank you for putting this puppy up on your site!

sure ... and as of earlier this afternoon the WMV version should now be corrected for best gamma on PC's (lighter as per my best guess at anyrate) while the .mov is still best for macs of course.

In answer to your Q.

2:30 in, we see a profile shot of BH. Why do we see a profile shot and not a full face one? I'm curious. This would be a woops of coverage.
Would like to say it was part of a grand plan but all I can say is "woops" and
... never again will I do multicamera - or at least not with fixed focal length 35 mm adaptors. It was SOOOOOO hard to get good shots without one camer getting in the other camera's way etc.
... here we ran into the problem of the wall and the couch and not being able to get further around actually closer to the 180 line to look right onto him. The day was already ambitous and it didn't all that well and the little girl wound up going home in tears and we were all at the end of our tether ... it wouldn't have been such a big deal to cheat over with her out of the shot and have him do two takes with the camera positiioned somewhere on the couch -- but the lighting took sooo long to set up and I should have listened to my producer and quit early that day to come bacj fresh and finish with ample time, because after pushing through we were all at the end of our thether and no one thought to get that quick shot of him

... like I said "woops" :grin:

3:27 the fight scene looks like it breaks the 180 rule there for a moment - as you highlighted.

3:43 again, side of head shot with BH - why? *sigh* same set up same day. Should have seen where the camera was initially placed after hours of set up ... did my best to push it closer to the 180 line :( :)

5:01 the quick shots seem to break the 180 rule (although I'd imagine you can get away with it with fast-cuts).
D'oh. Damnit :laugh:

this would be a "woops" of "you know I never though about that" ... always seemed ok to cut to a reverse over her shoulder there ... the funny thing is ... I actually flopped the low angle of her feat in post because it crossed the line from the side shot, lol, and never thought about the hand. I guess I could unflop the feat, then flop the the profile and medium shot and then it would all be on the right side! We got fouled up here I think because we were stealing the location (under the guise of being a genealogical research group, lol) and the grounds keeper was standing at the gate waiting on us so he could close the cemetary for the day (closed an hour earlier on the day we shot than on all other days for some reason!)

Also, LOVED the little homage to the ZombieFest thru the TV late night movies!

EJ

yeah it wound up being a tribute ... thanks to rezfactor and TC for the clips ...

but I always wanted her to be watching something highly innaproriate, since something I was going for in their relationship was that he protected her like a father, but treated her like a regular friend - which is of course innaproriate for their ages ... but she could watch whatever she wanted or eat whatever she wanted as long as she wasn't in bodily harm or emotional duress ... also, she sort walks all over him and does whatever the heck she wants :)

thanks for the indepth look, the interest, for helping me make it better for the DVD cut, and for checking out my website :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

EJ Pennypacker

06-25-2006, 04:33 PM

Yeah, how long were you waiting for a rainy day like that?

Very BLADERUNNER-ish.

EJ

Jack Daniel Stanley

06-25-2006, 10:18 PM

I was secretly hoping for it but couldn't plan for it due to our time schedule and resources.

We actually tried to STAY OUT of the rain for budget and logistical reasons, lol.

We just didn't have the resources to have an "A" schedule and "B" schedule based on the weather ... you know ... forecast says rain so we plan on it but have a second location as a backup with all the cast for that scene etc.

Also didn't have proper resources to care for the actors - towels, a place to stay warm ... all of that.

Forecast called for 70% chance of rain that Saturday and 30% on Sunday. The opening scene was originally scheduled for Saturday and we moved it to Sunday to try to stay dry, flip flopping it with the hallway fight scene scheduled on Sunday.

Of course it was a light drizzle on Saturday and poured buckets on Sunday.

So not planned for but wished for. I said to people working on the film that ideally ALL of the exterior scenes (except the blown out death metaphor scene) would be raining and at night, and I pretty much got my wish.

On the day of that shoot when discussing the shots, the fight coreographer (the tall thug) said "Why don't we reschedule this" and I said "Well we're here and prepared to go through with it despite the weather ... its just gonna look so much better in the rain like this, so lets go ahead and see if we can get through it"

Brandon Rice

06-25-2006, 10:31 PM

Nice Jack... and trust me... I feel ya on shooting in the rain! For my last short, I shot a scene outside and it was sprinkling and I was frustrated! I can only imagine what it must have been like!

maestro1d

07-02-2006, 02:08 PM

This post was originally in a sub-thread. Promised some folks I would re-post here at the Bone Hand thread, so here it is in an edited form:

Bone Hand - A Review

Wow.

I mean... really. Wow.

I missed out on this short during Herofest... I only recently purchased my two little DVX100b's and I found DVXUSER after the fact.

After seeing this little super hero/horror hero flick, all I can say is I am blown away.

I have seen a lot of stuff (shorts, clips, etc) over the last few weeks filmed on the DVX. Some cool, some funny, some iffy, some ground breaking, some awesome, and some pretty crappy.

But this short is without a doubt- unbelievably cool.

Bestist dang stuff I have seen since the "Broken" DVD- like that short (also filmed on the DVX100) it deserves the same follow through from the producers of "Bone Hand".

This short feature has incredible lighting (often lacking from a DV film) and great subtlety in selling the effects and costumes. When it comes to achieving "the film look" with DV, PROPER lighting and attention to contrast in camera and color correction in post is everything. And these guys know it!

This is true DV filmmaking at it's best: A great story, by someone who understands the horror/thriller genre as a whole. Ala hitchcock style, the director knows what to show and what not to show for max creepy effect.

And where the hellllll did these guys find that kid actress? She turned in one of the best child performances I have seen since Dakota Fanning in "War of the Worlds" or even Drew B in "ET" and "Firestarter"

... the bit at the end where she finally relaizes the mortality involved and gently pushes the corpse hand to the side. MAN. Awseome! ...total props on the direction of that scene. Really sells the drama of the whole short.

Great start, effects, script, acting, concept, and ending.

Hell- even the bit player villains were pretty good.

Good pacing, good editing, good night scene shots and lighting... sigh.

I know I'm being effusive, but I am no newbie to the entertainment biz... I don't dole this stuff out lightly... and I say this: "Bone Hand" rocks.

I felt more entertained here in 5 mins and 20 secs than I did in two plus hours of "X-Men Three: The Dismal Ending of a Franchise" a few weeks ago (sorry- I didn't mean to insult the Bone Hand team with the comparison).

Great short- check it out now if you havn't seen it. Best of luck to the creators, cast and crew of Bonehand.

A boney thumbs up here. :Drogar-Evil(DBG):

TimurCivan

07-02-2006, 02:47 PM

Nice Jack... and trust me... I feel ya on shooting in the rain! For my last short, I shot a scene outside and it was sprinkling and I was frustrated! I can only imagine what it must have been like!

Everyone but me was unhappy in the rain. i actually kinda liked it. it only sucked when we got back in the car, and me, jack, Actors and crew started shivering.

Jack Daniel Stanley

07-03-2006, 10:04 AM