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vincent_price
05-31-2006, 07:38 AM
I've noticed a strange red pixel in one of the clips from the Silicon website... :badputer:

Here's the link to the WMV: http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/Son_Shot_2.wmv
Length: 0:30
Original File: 1080/24P
Windows Media 9 HD 1080/24P (38MB)

http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/1456/senzatitolo28tr.jpg

vidled
05-31-2006, 07:50 AM
More DISTURBINGLY:
I've noticed a strange red beard in one of the clips from the Silicon website...

http://erkljhtnoiwv3y48tvybw38ilyt9obvw3y4ivusher5ktghv27 98y5viehtiytv.us/redB.jpg

:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

vincent_price
05-31-2006, 07:53 AM
red's everywhere!!!! :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

vidled
05-31-2006, 07:57 AM
LOL,
as for the red "pixel" (more a "pink blob", really):

1) it could be part of the couch
2) it could be dirt (kids with felt pen!!!) on the couch
3) it could be an artifact from compression
4) I am amazed that you saw it
5) I am amazed that we can even pull out such a small detail from a video grab!!

:)

vincent_price
05-31-2006, 08:19 AM
LOL,
as for the red "pixel" (more a "pink blob", really):

1) it could be part of the couch
2) it could be dirt (kids with felt pen!!!) on the couch
3) it could be an artifact from compression
4) I am amazed that you saw it
5) I am amazed that we can even pull out such a small detail from a video grab!!

:)

You can see it during all clip. It's static!!! like a dead pixel!
btw...I've noticed it on a 40'' lcd...

here's another example:

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3802/senzatitolo79qw.jpg

Ari Presler
05-31-2006, 09:00 AM
Vincent,

Yes. You are correct. This is caused by dead pixels. We did not have time before NAB to map them out on the camera.

Cineform has added support to the Cinefrom RAW codec to map out defective pixels even after recording !

http://www.cineform.com/technology/CineForm_RAW.htm


You can see in the UI the ability to add x,y coordinates.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3768/1172/1600/ColorMatrixExample.png


The Red coloring in the beard is from the combination of the codec and choice of demosaic processing (we have both fast and advanced modes...not sure which one was used). Look for some new test shots in the upcoming weeks.

vincent_price
05-31-2006, 09:09 AM
:dankk2: 4 the reply

Ari Presler
05-31-2006, 09:15 AM
Vincent...Is there a way to change the smiley icon on the thread?

vincent_price
05-31-2006, 09:17 AM
Vincent...Is there a way to change the smiley icon on the thread?

done... but I can still see the smiley... :/

vincent_price
05-31-2006, 04:48 PM
anyway... great footage (especially for a prototipe)! way better gamma & dof than the F-750 I'm used to play with. I can't wait to touch that cam!

filmmaker1977
05-31-2006, 08:42 PM
More DISTURBINGLY:
I've noticed a strange red beard in one of the clips from the Silicon website...

http://erkljhtnoiwv3y48tvybw38ilyt9obvw3y4ivusher5ktghv27 98y5viehtiytv.us/redB.jpg

:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)the post of the month! :love4:

Emanuel
05-31-2006, 08:52 PM
ah ah it's true! And your fair play were quite well, Vincent!

But the best it was the Ari's answer. As well, his humble public request. IMHO, as far as it's possible to know, Silicon Imaging have the best support that it's possible to find in these boards. It's quite trustful! Congrats! I can tell if I will buy this product it will be following their work. Sony and other major ones might learn with these guys!

Ari Presler
05-31-2006, 09:24 PM
Emanuel,

Thank you for your kind words. I can only hope others in the industry learn about us and what we have to offer.

Vincent,

We look forward to working with you on your feature in the fall.

Do you think you would use the Silicon DVR or Mini (use your own recording) or both?

Which editing workflow. Premier or FCP?

What optics will you be using?

Have you looked at any of the Spoon footage? What do you think?

Emanuel
05-31-2006, 10:16 PM
Emanuel,

Thank you for your kind words. I can only hope others in the industry learn about us and what we have to offer.You're welcome but it's only true! You deserve it and you've been earning this achievement with your work and your product.

Jarred Land
05-31-2006, 10:47 PM
ill take care of the smiley.

Emanuel
05-31-2006, 10:49 PM
:dankk2: again Jarred!

Ari Presler
06-01-2006, 06:49 AM
Vincent,

Do you typically rent or buy your lenses?

we have been talking to Angenieux about a new lens they introduced that has cinema quality zoom optics, but still breathes. We are considering OEM this lens with manual controls for Follow-focus gears to sell to the market for less than $10K. Do you think the market would have interest in this?


http://www.angenieux.com/images/ENG19XHDE.jpg
(NEW) HD-e
Angenieux All Purpose Zoom
ENG lens 19x7.3 AIF HD-e

Zoom ratio : 19x
Focal length : 7.3 - 139 mm
Aperture : f/1.8 (7.3 - 105 mm)
f/2.4 (139 mm)
MOD : 0.6 m - 2’
Macro : 10 mm

SMD : Version with Standard Digital Servo control
SSD : Version with built in servo focus
SSDE : Version with 16Bits serial Digital connection for zoom
& focus

Digital servo control :
> Memorized focus and zoom positions.
> Repeatable focus and zoom positions (anti backlash system).
> Auto cruise zoom function.
> Zoom limit function.
> Digital laws for focus and zoom .
> Assisted internal focus .
> Serial communication.
> Optional built in focus (SSD version).
> Optional 16 bits output optical encoder (SSDE version).

Front diam. : 87 mm
Weight (approx.) : 1.7 kg - 3.7 Ibs
Length : 216 mm
UV filter included : M95 x 1 in sunshade

vincent_price
06-01-2006, 07:27 AM
we usually rent the whole package (cinealta + lens, mattebox, follow focus & 9'' monitor for 1000$/day)

donatello
06-02-2006, 09:41 AM
"new lens they introduced that has cinema quality zoom optics"

i was always under the impression that a lens made for eng/efp 3 chip camera's was not optomized for a single chip type camera ( film or video) ??
perhaps you could shed some light on that .

IMO 26x zoom is too long .. in general i usually use 10-12x zooms .. maybe 15-19x for special events . when shooting interiors for dramatic projects tend to go with something in the 5-7x range .. perhpas others prefer the longer 26x type ?

Ari Presler
06-02-2006, 11:13 AM
George Palmer (HDPIX) states:

"Much has been said and conjectured about the effecacy of using B4 zoom lenses on single focal plane hard sensored arrays/sensors. First, it is important to understand that most modern era (the past 10 years) B4 mount zoom lenses, traditionally called TV lenses, are extremely well made and meet or exceed the quality standards for most film zoom lenses of the same era. Some, such as the B4 or PL mount Angenieux Optimo far exceed those performance standards, and, except for certain "high end" paramaters such as "breathing", even non-Cine style HD zooms such as the new 19x7.3AIF Angenieux lens are perfectly suited for both multi-sensored or single sensored cameras.

Furthermore, it is the collorary situation that has created some of the confusion on this issue, as most film lenses, zooms and primes are optimized for single focal plane film cameras, and do not necessarily perform as well as B4 lenses on prism based or single hard sensor video cameras, even with high end adapters. In fact, many have used the Angenieux HD/Film Prime Adapter (known to some as the CLA-35) to adapt their favorite film prime lenses to the B4 mount with great creative success. And while it is possible to use those cherished PL mount lenses on a B4 mount camera for creative comfort and effect, these lenses are optimized for a single, transmittive capture media, not a reflective single sensor such as a CMOS or CCD sensor, and, certainly not, a prism based multi sensor camera . Some film lenses, such as the Angenieux non Optimo, Cine lenses do meet "Digital, or HD" imaging standards only because of and with updated optical path and coating improvements, but most other non-Digital film lenses have not had the benefit of such updates, and are, therefore, not as appropropriate for use on Digital, HD single or multi hard sensored cameras."


What lens in the 10-12X do you think would be best suited for our camera?

Ari Presler
06-02-2006, 11:46 AM
I posted in the wrong lens specs. I meant the 19x7.3. That Cooke lens is $50K?


Angenieux All Purpose Zoom
ENG lens 19x7.3 AIF HD-e

Zoom ratio : 19x
Focal length : 7.3 - 139 mm
Aperture : f/1.8 (7.3 - 105 mm)
f/2.4 (139 mm)
MOD : 0.6 m - 2’
Macro : 10 mm

Jason Rodriguez
06-02-2006, 11:59 AM
That Cooke lens is $50K?

Yeah :)

Zooms are generally very expensive, especially HD-quality zooms.

filmmaker1977
06-02-2006, 04:46 PM
hey vincent!.. i've been following you.. i like you 99% of the time BUT..

now, don't do this play okay? please.. you're speaking as you are working in the italian hollywood.. (is there hollywood in Italy?) you repeat what you're reading around from the real film top professionals.. let me guess.. cinematography.com? maybe yes maybe not but you're posting from the wrong place..

i read (i understand italian very well) what you had been writing with another italian some time ago.. the thread was simply deleted, completely.. so it is possible imagine what it happened.. and please don't dare me to say what you were writing there because it wouldn't be good.. and this is already enough.. besides i must be ashamed for this hostile input.. however when the truth is on the table i loose my temper..




edit

(it doesn't mean that you're lying or you are a liar.. i hope not..)

i sincerely wish you the best luck as graphic artist including for SI :thumbup: or as future filmmaker to prove later but my POV about your (non-graphic) offer is not the same than your statements are showing here.. as full show-off..

filmmaker1977
06-02-2006, 05:47 PM
ps

be cool i don't want attack you personally but that way is hostile to the indie world.. they were making your head.. what do you prefer?

posting that you are a filmmaker as you're thinking what you need to be one of them?

or helping Ari, Jason, Steve thinking their product wisely, targeting it also for your pocket?..
i know you italians have a deep throat, specially the gals :2vrolijk_08:i know that's it: i'm jealous.. you are there i'm here but please do a favor to us (really) indies: be one of us and it's not necessary being more than 51%.. let your latin throat with the girls.. they are knowing better than you..

filmmaker1977
06-02-2006, 05:59 PM
1. yeah... there's hollywood in italy and it's called CINECITTA' (Oceans 12, The Passion, Gangs of NY... La Dolce Vita, The Battle of Algiers...)
2. never heard of cinematography.com, my dad is in the industry and I'm a student of the European film academy (Rosebud Academy - professors: Giuseppe Ferrara (the moro case), Marcello Gatti (the battle of algiers), Tonino Guerra (Blow up) ) in rome... where we work with the cinealta, arri s16 & s35, varicam, sony dsr 250 and glidecam steadicams...
3.we were discussing with danilo del tufo & emanuel (in italian) of how americans love to spend (too much) money on movies...
4.future filmmaker??? i've started shooting when I was 5 yrs old with a panny s-vhsc... then I've discovered photography and took some great pics when I was only 10yrs old with a yashica fx3super (these pics will be shown in a gallery next year in Piran - slovenia, where i lived 18 yrs of my life)... many years later I've worked as a barman in a club (12 hours a day!!) just to buy a sony vx2100 (I didn't have the money to buy a dvx100) and only then I've startet shooting seriously: 10 short movies in 2 years (1 of them was a commercial 4 the European Union - 65.000$ budget), 1 documentary (15 mins for the UNESCO international - i've paid the rent of the cam...). At the age of 17 I left high school (I was working still working to save some money for a film school) and I went to rome for an audiction for the european accademy in rome, where i've showed them my short D.I.P. (it was also one of my first threads), and...they've accepted me, they said that the short was great (they saw a little of warhol in me). Now I can tell you the story of a poor slovenian-italian-german-irish guy who went to rome and after 1 week of school decided with a brasilian guy to shoot a documentary about italian cine history, and actually shot a documentary with one of his miths, mr Dario Argento!? then he starded writing his first book at the age of 18 (i didn't finish it yet), become good friend of my mentor marcello gatti who still bealives I'm a jenius with b&W photography (but I don't). Then some producers from mtv adria called me and asked me if I would shoot videoclips from some bands... so now I'm living between rome & slovenia... I'm writing and producing 4 videoclips for major Slovenian bands (well known in eastern europe and in italy), oh yeah and with my friend & co worker in slovenia (president of the edge studio - www.edgestudio.com (http://www.edgestudio.com/) S. Pelan) we're preproducing the first ever feture in slovenia (a small country situated between italy and hungary) with special effects (made on maya, we are testing various cameras, among them the f750, hvx200, dvx100b, xl2 with a homemade 35mm adapter, and s16)...

:dankk2: 4 supporting us!now i like your speech 100%! you're welcome!

so please, don't do that speech about highest glass. THEY WANT OUR MONEY! and our work.. i just don't want be slave of anybody, including them.. i want my money -- result of my efforts, right into my pocket and not in their hands..

Silicon by now is an indie provider but until when? if there is smell of money, there aren't saints.. and i'd prefer a Saint Ari or Saint Jason and the Saint Steve..

filmmaker1977
06-02-2006, 06:03 PM
I'm not a filmmaker... maybe an italian filmmaker, which is something different... I'm also a producer... bealivite or not...i believe but only if you will not be at their side.. eheh
I'm opening my own company next month... if u think i'm still an indie.. then ok... it's just your point of view... here in eastern europe if u have a company u're a capitalist...eheh
what speech about highest glass m8???between the lines.. that one of 50k..

they have it just because the only difference regarding PANAVISION that is they know how much money they can take from your budget before the shooting..

vincent_price
06-02-2006, 06:09 PM
i believe but only if you will not be at their side.. eheh eheh

i don't agree... movies=industry... art is not (it's free, it's pure)... now (after being an artist), i work in the industry and i try to bee free & pure, but it's just not possible... i'm an omologated artist...

filmmaker1977
06-02-2006, 06:21 PM
you need time to be an artist.. can you rent it?

Emanuel
06-02-2006, 06:40 PM
Guys, what thread are you talking about? :engel017:

If it is that one italian during the RED launch, it was suspended just 'cause Isaac Brody decided that, following the dvxuser.com rules concerning the official english language as the common meeting point here. Besides, Isaac sent me a nice PM informing that and why it was deleted.

vincent_price
06-02-2006, 06:46 PM
u right emanuel! we were talking of the hdx900... then... i don't remember why we simply starded talking (in italian) of us film industry & then... of rocco siffredi... yeah... isaac sent me a pm informing me why it was deleted (a very nice pm, he wasn't angry at all, just following the rules)

filmmaker1977
06-02-2006, 06:49 PM
Emanuel, i know you are an institution here.. so my apologizes but i don't remember you there.. however if you're both saying.. what can i add?

vincent_price
06-02-2006, 06:53 PM
24/04/2006 07:05 am (GMT+1)

Dear vincent_price,

brianluce has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled
- Aj-hdx 900 - in the Latest HVX200 News forum of DVXuser.com -- The
online community for filmmaking.

This thread is located at:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=54564&goto=newpost (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=54564&goto=newpost)

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
I speak italian, these guys aren't talking cameras, they're
planning an armed take over of dvxuser and turning it into a site
dedicated to italian porno movies shot with the hvx. they plan on
kidnapping the moderators and selling them to arab slave traders.

hope this helps.
***************

filmmaker1977
06-02-2006, 06:54 PM
link doesn't work.. :(

vincent_price
06-02-2006, 06:56 PM
link don't work..

obviously! the thread as we already said was deleted!

filmmaker1977
06-02-2006, 06:58 PM
lol

but as you posted that quote.. i thought it was quoted..

vincent_price
06-02-2006, 07:02 PM
lol

but as you posted that quote.. i thought it was quoted..

lol ...............................btw...(that's me 2 yrs ago) pic took with a cellphone
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/2747/05010522562ds.gif

filmmaker1977
06-02-2006, 07:06 PM
but now on-topic.. now i know that we have some in common, so we must unite our forces against the film gear prices..

they are putting this price on their own just because the popcorn movie is made with their product..

and the popcorn movie is what it is just because they have the budget that they have..

and the film gear is pricey as high as possible because there are popcorn movies..

vincent_price
06-02-2006, 07:15 PM
we should stop selling popcorn! lol
the main problem: people. they don't go to the movies to watch a movie, they go to the cinema to "see" a movie, to relax, to eat bigmacs, drink a pint (or 2) of coke "light..."

Emanuel
06-02-2006, 07:18 PM
but now on-topic.. now i know that we have some in common, so we must unite our forces against the film gear prices..

they are putting this price on their own just because the popcorn movie is made with their product..

and the popcorn movie is what it is just because they have the budget that they have..

and the film gear is pricey as high as possible because there are popcorn movies..filmmaker1977, you're completely right!

Actually, your POV is worthy of pointing out.

A good resume of the equation! Very well indeed!

Emanuel
06-02-2006, 07:20 PM
we should stop selling popcorn! lol
the main problem: people. they don't go to the movies to watch a movie, they go to the cinema to "see" a movie, to relax, to eat bigmacs, drink a pint (or 2) of coke "light..."For Christ's sake, there are different markets so many different movies...and so many different crews and their needs!

vincent_price
06-02-2006, 07:25 PM
but u have to admit that the majority of people won't watch a movie like "nouvelle vague" by jean luc godard... (for me one of his best movies)... and btw: many different movies??? where??? I see always the same type of movies... sequels & remakes... batman the begins, superman returns,smallville on hdtv, bewitched, charlie & the c.f., big momma's house2...

filmmaker1977
06-02-2006, 07:25 PM
For Christ's sake, there are different markets so many different movies...and so many different crews and their needs!that's my turn to retort the compliment..

some companies or manufacturers are thinking that we are silly boys..

edit
as we can't see what the part of the cake they are wanting to eat..

filmmaker1977
06-02-2006, 07:29 PM
but u have to admit that the majority of people won't watch a movie like "nouvelle vague" by jean luc godard... (for me one of his best movies)godard or any other major indie.. mainly the american ones.. to me it's more like the case of the million of colors that's possible to aim with a non-greedy policy..

vincent_price
06-02-2006, 07:33 PM
godard or any other major indie.. mainly the american ones.. to me it's more like the case of the million of colors that's possible to aim with a non-greedy policy..

U right

hemophilia
06-03-2006, 02:55 AM
Ari--

Yes it would be cool if you guys offered some package(s) with a lens. Perhaps even a couple with:
1) el-cheapo-maybe-not-quite-as-good-as-we'd-like-it-but-still-better-than-just-shooting-HVX.
2) Nicer "all-purpose" zoom... but still on the cheaper end of the price bracket. No $50K Cookes.

That zoom range on the one you specified does seem pretty bonkers. I mean-- if people want really specific lenses, or really great lenses, they can rent them on occasion.

It would be beyond stupid to bundle it with a $50K lens. If someone really wants to buy a lens like that they'll go out and buy it of their own accord. What we (the general cost-conscious folks that are interested in this camera) need are some nice meat & potatoes get-the-job done lenses-- options that don't break the bank. Other zany focal lengths or super-high-quality-glass would be occasional rental items.
-Kevin

Emanuel
06-03-2006, 05:04 AM
Why not the Nikon F mount plus the Fuji c mount lenses as wideangle solution? Shouldn't it be enough? Will it not be?

Ari Presler
06-03-2006, 06:55 AM
Ari--

Yes it would be cool if you guys offered some package(s) with a lens.

2) Nice "all-purpose" zoom... but still on the cheaper end of the price bracket. No $50K Cookes. That zoom range on the one you specified does seem pretty bonkers.

Kevin,

How much are you willing to spend on your "all-purpose" zoom (I assume you represent the model indie and you will be responding for the community at large)?

Would you prefer a Manual Zoom with gears for rack focus?

Would the manual lens need gears too (Emanuel)?

Should we offer an optimized 35mm adaptor/relay-lens/ground-glass system? F-mount or Canon? What would be a reasonable price point for this assembly?

Would you be a typical customer to buy a Silicon DVR (camera/recording package) or just a Mini and use your own recording system (just to save a few Yen)?

Thank you for the continued support and feedback.

Ari

filmmaker1977
06-03-2006, 08:35 AM
i vote for Mini

it will sell like popcorn.. eheh

Ari Presler
06-03-2006, 08:44 AM
i vote for Mini

it will sell like popcorn.. eheh

no, no...thats not the idea... It is supposed to sell the Popcorn!

Then we will have hotcakes :-) !

filmmaker1977
06-03-2006, 08:48 AM
lol

sell the popcorn.. good idea.. :( i'm sorry.. now i just remembered what it's necessary to do to sell it.. :crybaby: maybe, it's not so good at all.. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

but hotcakes it will be better than those crappy movies..

hemophilia
06-03-2006, 03:52 PM
Kevin,
How much are you willing to spend on your "all-purpose" zoom (I assume you represent the model indie and you will be responding for the community at large)?


As much as it takes and not a penny more. :P Sorry I can't give a better answer, but I really am on the low-end scale of the type of person that would be interested in this-- from a budgetary perspective that is. I shot DVX for a few years, now we've been shooting on the HVX. The SI-Eve would be a SERIOUS step-up, both in quality and price. I'm not trying to knock the price-point you guys are targetting. I think it's quite competitive really, and I think you'll do well. My point is that aside from the few Nikkor f-mount lenses I own, I don't know a damn thing about lenses b/c they've been built-in to the Pannies.



Would you prefer a Manual Zoom with gears for rack focus?


Yes. For better or worse it's the 'cinema-style' and that's what people want.



Should we offer an optimized 35mm adaptor/relay-lens/ground-glass system? F-mount or Canon? What would be a reasonable price point for this assembly?


In another post Jason Rodriguez said you plan on offerring "interchangeable lens mounts (F, PL, B4, and C), so you can put really any lens you can get your hands around on this camera."

If that is in fact the case (and I really hope it is), I don't see the need for such an assembly. Your sensor size (if I'm not mistaken) places it squarely between a 16mm and 35mm image size (a 2/3rd-inch sensor is ~17mm... which is between the 12mm-24mm image-areas of 16mm and 35mm film respectively). The point being that the depth of field thing should be a non-issue. People can buy a wicked-wide [aperture] lens and get DOF very very very similar to 35mm film. If there are still crazies out there that are so obsessed with 35mm-equivalent sensor size, let them waste their time doing DIY ground glass projects.



Would you be a typical customer to buy a Silicon DVR (camera/recording package) or just a Mini and use your own recording system (just to save a few Yen)?


I would be trying to save as many Yen as possible. So I would probably be getting just the Eve-Mini, most likely with an f-mount or something of the like. I suppose the good news with a camera like this is that its modularity lends itself to upgradeability. If a broke-ass like me manages to score a serious project and wants the added quality/convenience of your recording package with the sweet touch screen and all... I could upgrade months after initially just purchasing a camera head. But as far as my personal potential Eve-owning aspirations are concerned (which I think does reflect a lot of people on the board here), I'd probably be figuring out what the bare-minimum set-up I could use to kinda get my foot in the door would be. Then as time goes by hopefully upgradeing with fancy touch-screens and PL-mount billion-dollar 'cinema-quality' glass. So please keep the 'foot in the door' price as modest as possible. :)

And how's the audio going? ASIO support rockin' it yet? I for one would like to use an external firewire ASIO-driven device to record multi-channel high-res sound. You said elsewhere this couldn't be incorporated into .avi's b/c of a restriction on avi's.... so it would most likely be stand-alone .wav's instead. Any workflow ideas for this? It would be a shame to have such a wonderfully modern/hi-tech set-up, and be recording audio and video literally on the same computer system, yet to have non-synched sound and to have to go back with a damn clapper and line of every shot the old-school way.

Cheers,
Kevin

Jason Rodriguez
06-03-2006, 10:12 PM
A 2/3" sensor is 9.8mm x 5.6mm or something close to that.

Jason Rodriguez
06-03-2006, 10:13 PM
Also the only way around the mult-channel aspect is either separate .wav's or Quicktime.

The Video-for-Windows AVI file format doesn't support multi-channel 24/96 audio.

Ari Presler
06-03-2006, 11:37 PM
Kevin,

That is excellent feedback. We will do our best to give you the max for the mini.

We will have alot more options for Audio once QT support is integrated. How many channels are you looking to record?

The plan is to offer a Rig for a MINI, LCD monitor and Battery mount. Any requests?

Post here...
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=59655

filmmaker1977
06-03-2006, 11:47 PM
at dv info there is this:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=491427&postcount=26

and i found this:

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/3844

and this:

http://www.nusystems.co.uk/product/Echo.Indigo.IO
http://www.nusystems.co.uk/product/Echo.Indigo.DJ

isn't it 24/96 audio?

and.. Jason, didn't you already posted that quicktime will support 24/96? i'm confused..

Ari Presler
06-04-2006, 01:09 AM
16/48 audio (2 ch) is currently recorded in the AVI file. We also have some nice audio level meters so you can see what's happening. You can use any external device with standard Windows WAV drivers (not ASIO) or use on-board PC HD audio.

24/96 needs ASIO support with recording to QT, since video-for-windows is limited to two channels at 16/48. In order to get embedded 24/96, you will need equipment capable of 24/96 (such as a USB audio device, or on-board HD audio that can record at 24/96).

We still feel the best way to get good 24/96 is to use an external audio recording device and sync it with the camera. We can do that very nicely right now since we have time-of-day timecode, so you can sync everything up using a timecode slate, We will also have LTC syncing in the future, so you can slave the camera's timecode to the audio device if you choose.

filmmaker1977
06-04-2006, 01:13 AM
but not with those cheap cards?

Ari Presler
06-04-2006, 01:23 AM
As Jason often states: "Without good pre-amps, 24/96 is overkill . . . you're just digitizing noise and useless bits."

filmmaker1977
06-04-2006, 02:01 AM
okay but there is who is recording to a laptop..

http://207.36.59.179/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=software;action=display;num=1072074 316

what must i need to have it?.. man, i need your camera to doc work.. run & gun to the laptop and it will be enough..

external monitor, external battery, external device a, external device b, and i need a slave just to help with the weight of all this..

forget the hollywood business.. think in sundance as i already read i don't know where and you will have hollywood!

but first think about this: your camera is the most perfect INDIE cam that is available now to us.. sell like it hotcakes if you will get a COMPACT package to the laptop recording..

all the people with who i'm talking about your camera are saying the same..

handheld.. lighter.. easier..

so, please get a laptop solution to 24/96 audio recording and you must thank us our interest..

cheers man.. i like you but not so much as your Mini.. she rocks but with 24/96 audio..

Ari Presler
06-04-2006, 08:45 AM
Are you looking to have support something like this?

UAX220-Mic
All in one, all in hand
http://www.digigram.com/images/products/uax_220mic_lg.jpg (http://www.digigram.com/images/image_gallery/product/uax_220mic_lg.jpg)
The UAX220-Mic is a professional USB Audio interface for broadcast and other demanding pro audio applications featuring 2/2 balanced analog high-quality I/Os. Under its compact and sleek design, it combines Digigram’s leading edge experience in audio performance with the ease of use of standard USB Audio. With two professional grade mic preamps, the UAX220-Mic is the most efficient Pro Audio interface for portable use.

Get the UAX220-Mic PDF brochure (http://www.digigram.com/download_form.htm?download_path=pdf_brochure&prod_key=13300) »

http://www.digigram.com/images/navigation/uax_video.jpg (http://www.digigram.com/uax_video/)

Video about UAX220-Mic


True plug-and-play devices, the UAX220-Mic is the perfect solution for use with multiple computers; such as for example a laptop computer on the road and a desktop PC in the newsroom or studio. When connected to the USB port of a computer, the UAX220-Mic is immediately operational: no need for a specific driver or bulky external power supply. Applications

Broadcast (newsroom, mobile journalist workstation)
Live performance (theatrical playback, special effects, sound system calibration)
Recording on location
Logging, legal recording, and archiving
DJ applications
Music productionhttp://www.digigram.com/products/getinfo.htm?prod_key=13300

hemophilia
06-04-2006, 01:01 PM
A 2/3" sensor is 9.8mm x 5.6mm or something close to that.

How do you figure?

1" = 25.4mm

Is the image area on a 2/3" (17mm) sensor really only 9.8mm wide?

And to chime in on the audio debate one more time:

Decent pre-amps going into a 48kHz/16bit A/D converter will be just dandy for the on-board sound. And if you can get external ASIO devices with more channels/higher res working so they're embedded in QT or easily sync-able with wav files, that would be fantastic. It sounds like you guys are right on target.

I have an 8-channel firewire device (the PreSonus Firepod) that records up to 24bit/96K, and the vast majority of the time I just record 48/16 b/c it's just easier, less of a hassle, less HD space, and I'm not targetting the 0.001% of the population that's going to care. It's absurd to think you should make your camera both a kick-ass HD camera AND an audiophile-quality multiple channel sound interface with mic pre's. Just shoot for making pro-level sound on camera with a couple channels (48/16) and make the camera WORK WITH an audiophile-quality multiple channel sound interface.... and you'll please damn near everyone but that 0.001%.

Cheers,
Kevin

filmmaker1977
06-04-2006, 01:23 PM
hey hemophilia, now the audio debate is there:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=59802

:dankk2:

ps
here it sounds quite off-topic..

Ari Presler
06-04-2006, 07:45 PM
The actual image size or active area for 2/3" format has traditionaly meant = 8.8mm x 6.6mm with the image diagonal = 11mm. The 2/3 inch (2/3” = 16.93mm) value that is used to describe the common format name stems from the days of Videcon Tubes and was used to describe the tube diameter and not the actual image size, where only the center of tube was used for best linearity.

Here is the chart for 4:3 aspect image sizes.


http://machinevision.navitar.com/images/image_sensor_size.gif


The Silicon HD has a 5um pixel pitch at 2k wide this is 10mm wide. You can compare this with film formats:

16mm at 9.65x7.26mm
Super16 is 12.52 x 7.41mm

Ari Presler
06-04-2006, 07:51 PM
I have an 8-channel firewire device (the PreSonus Firepod) that records up to 24bit/96K, and the vast majority of the time I just record 48/16 b/c it's just easier, less of a hassle, less HD space, and I'm not targetting the 0.001% of the population that's going to care. It's absurd to think you should make your camera both a kick-ass HD camera AND an audiophile-quality multiple channel sound interface with mic pre's.

Just shoot for making pro-level sound on camera with a couple channels (48/16) and make the camera WORK WITH an audiophile-quality multiple channel sound interface.... and you'll please damn near everyone but that 0.001%.

Cheers,
Kevin

We agree with you 100%!

filmmaker1977
06-04-2006, 07:56 PM
We agree with you 100%!
this 100% hemophilia quote is for me Ari?..

because if yes, why Jason (your Barry) he's referring a lot about 24/96?

btw, why not 24/48? is it possible now at yours?

Jason Rodriguez
06-04-2006, 08:04 PM
Sorry to confuse you,

Right now in our beta software, we do not have ASIO working yet.

The final 1.0 release will have 24/96 support on-board the camera for two channels of input with the Quicktime file format. The AVI file format will be limited to 16/48

Multi-channel audio (over two channels) at 24/96 will be supported in the Quicktime file format only using ASIO drivers and external USB/Firewire audio interfaces.

This way you can get 24/96 into Quicktime via the on-board camera hardware (no external devices needed), and if you're an audiophile and require more audio support, you can hook up an external device and get all the audio capabilities you need.

filmmaker1977
06-04-2006, 10:10 PM
while you were here i put more questions there:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=574130&postcount=5

please, can you answer there?

filmmaker1977
06-04-2006, 10:11 PM
and you and Ari may consider me as your future customer.. if not why would i be here?

hemophilia
06-06-2006, 02:55 PM
Thanks for that image size comparison Ari-- makes sense now.

So the sensor is a little smaller than I thought. It's still the size of standard 16mm, and the sample footage looks fantastic, and has plenty of shallow DOF in some shots. So I personally would not be interested in any ground-glass 35mm adaptor type thing. There still might be crazies out there that think that's the key to good sotrytelling... so but it would be a waste of your time to offer it. You SHOULD however have a flip mode to record upside-down and/or mirror images right from the start. If someone wanted to go do a ground-glass type thing, it would be very welcome. And for strange low-to-ground camera mounting configurations it would be useful. So add a flip mode, and let me know when you're ready for more features. ;)

Seriously though, Jason and Ari, the stuff looks great so far, and it's very cool that you guys are here constantly soliciting opinions on how to improve it, as well as promptly and clearly answering all of our questions. Fight the good fight.

-Kevin

Ari Presler
06-06-2006, 03:23 PM
1.) FLIP MODE - In the spec now. When do you need upside-down and/or mirror image mode?

2.) SILICON MINI has 1/4-20 threads both top and bottom to easily mount upside down

3.) For strange low-to-ground camera mounting configurations - what do you need?

hemophilia
06-08-2006, 01:24 AM
Sounds like you have it all sorted out Ari. Good work. :)

Upside-down would be for when you're using a low-to-ground camera mount... or any goofy camera mount that would put the camera upside-down. But if there are threads on the top and bottom, it's a moot point.

Mirror-image would be for someone trying to use a ground-glass adaptor or something like that. But, like I said, I imagine those people would be few and far between with this camera. So... nevermind everything I said. Fantastic job; keep up the good work, and I'll keep spreading the word. :)

-Kevin