Is HVX200 the answer?

[El Bachorino]

As so many before me I’m having to choose between Sony Z1, JVC GY-HD100, Canon XL1 and Panasonic HVX200. I’m leaning toward the latter, but still have quite an array of questions. Any and all input is very much appreciated!!!:)
I apologize upfront for my English and for repeating questions that have already been asked on this really useful forum.

Panasonic HVX200 –
DVCPRO50 on tape? Interlaced eller progressive? Framerates? Actually 50 mbit or compressed in any way?
If not going w P2, but only harddrive (Firestore), then the right camera?
Battery for Firestore lasts how long? How long to recharge?
You need a special card-reader to transfer P2 cards? Is it expensive?
How long to empty a Firestore drive (100 gigs)? Interface? FW800? USB 2.0? Can you only do 1080p to P2 and not to Firestore? Any other differences?
I read in here that HVX200 does not have low shutterspeeds but that there’s a mod for regulation? Is this only for P2 cards or also tape and Firestore?
Does HVX 200 do interval recording on tape, P2 and Firestore?
Battery for HVX 200 lasts how long?
When you film slowmo (that is say 50 fps for intended 25fps playback) does the sound get recorded that way too? So you can slow the sound?

Depth of focus: SONY-Z1 is unfortunately close to infinity and Canon HDV cameras seem to be quite good. Not sure about JVC GY-HD100. But how is Panasonic HVX 200? Is everything always in focus or can you reduce depth of focus? (I love to able to use a change of focus as a transition – really an almost indispensable storytelling tool imo)

Accesories: I think I need the following? Have I left anything out and should I go for something particular (because of quality/usefulness or low price)?
Mattebox (The indie snap matte box seems the way to go if they ship internationally? – I’m in Denmark..)
Extra batteries and rechargers for camera and firestore
Sungun
Shouldermount, perhaps with extra rear-end weight for good balance? It seems that DVrig is the way to go?
Remote control (I can borrow a 23 foot crane)
Camera bag
Tripod for camera
UV filter (does this really make a difference?)
Holder for firestore? Heard that if you otherwise have it mounted on top of camera then the noise is recorded?
Monitor with batteries, unless the LCD display or viewfinder is good and displays everything in the frame? (unlike Sony FX1 which leaves out quite a bit of the recorded image in both LCD display and viewfinder :()



A lot of questions i know but if anyone could just clear a few things up for me that would be great :)

[Justin Marx]

Just get the HVX....

The Z1U doesnt do True 24p
The H1 needs WORK!
Get P2 cards.. I only hear of problems with the FS-100 (firestore)..
It says P2 on the side of the camera.. not Firestore... and you cant record 24pN with the FS, so you cant view your varied frame rates..

You just need a laptop/pcmcia card slot to download your P2 cards.. or you can spend more $$ and buy a P2 STORE.. but you dont need it..

No DVCPRO50 on tape.. only P2 or firestore.. Same with interval recording.
No sound on overcranked or undercranked footage...
The shutter starts at 1/12.

UV filter? YES, or maybe you can afford to replace your lens each time you get a scratch or rock thrown at it..

Check able cinetech for accessories for the camera.. (you dont have to buy, but they have a lot to look at..
Get your remote accessories/cables from VARIZOOM..

For the rest of your answers, go look around the forum, it's how you learn..

- - Justin

[DavidBeier]

Too many questions.

I like the HVX200 but it depends what you want.

The Z1U is simply not worth it if you want the film look. The images are very sharp and clean but look like video. No 24p. Not many image controls. No filmlike gamma. Ugly colors. Your also stuck with HDV.

The HD100 is pretty good but not as nice as the HVX. Sharness wise, stuff from Barry and a few others have shown it's actual resolved detail is the same as the HVX200 (largely due to the crappy lense apparently). You can add more edge enhancment with it (fake sharpness) but you can do that in post with the HVX200 and JVC'x just looks digital to me. You're also stuck with all the drawbacks of HDV.

The XLH1 is nice. It's definatly sharper than the HVX200 and looks very pretty. Unfortunatly, it uses 24f instead of 24p with degrade much of this resolution and isn't currently supported by most NLEs. It also costs about 3k more. You'll also be stuck with HDV codecs unless you want to spend another couple grand on an SDI deck and yet another couple grand on a laptop.

The HVX200 looks gorgeous when you know what you're doing. I've seen great stuff from the XLH1 and HD100, and truth be told their all pretty nice, but I have yet to see stuff from them that approaches my favorite stuff from the HVX200. With P2 cards you can shoot DVCProHD instead of HDV and I can't stress how amazing this is. 4:2:2 color space looks SO much better than the 4:2:0 of HDV and is MUCH easier to color correct. The pure frames of DVCProHD also mean much less motion artifacts and easier editing. I also fine the HVX200's gamma much more film-like and pleasing to the eye. The variable frame rates are pretty damn cool too. Finally, tapeless workflow is a gift from the Gods. I have to shoot a project for a school with a cheaper camera (my tripod for the HVX200 hasn't arrived yet nor has the carrying case so I don't want to use it) and the idea of messing with tape again makes me so sad.

Oh, and you don't get sound with slow mo.

[R Gale]

UV filter (does this really make a difference?)

You need it to protect your lens from getting damaged.

...as for the other questions, I agree with David.
I think of my HVX200 almost as if it were a film camera... P2 cards are the film magazines. Only these mags are non-linear... you can delete unwanted shots,
view any shot instantly, record with no pre-roll or post-roll necessary, edit without capturing, etc.

As David (and others) have said, once you work with P2, you never want to go back.

[peter orland]

As so many before me I’m having to choose between Sony Z1, JVC GY-HD100, Canon XL1 and Panasonic HVX200.

All of these cameras are capable of taking unbeleavable footage compared to what was avialable not that long ago at this price range. Check out the stuff that has been posted by the members of this board that has been shot on all of these cameras and then some - some of it is great - some of it isn't, and guaranteed someone else will like all the stuff I hate and hate all the stuff that I like. Halleluya for that, otherwise you'd all be trying to go out with my girlfriend.

If this was a car, and lets face it by the time you've added all the production excessories and post production stuff ,you could of bought a small car, you'd go out and test drive. Well this is exactly the same thing. If it's important to you, then hire or borrow all of these cameras and make up your own mind, at least then you will feel that you have been active in the decision making process and not just taking everybody else's opoinion (as well meaning as they may be).



Accesories: I think I need the following? Have I left anything out and should I go for something particular (because of quality/usefulness or low price)?

Depends what you want to do. If you want to shoot the steadicam restaurant scene out of Goodfellas (Martin Scorsese) then you had better buy yourself a steadicam. If you want to take shots of the family in the backyard then buy what makes you feel good?

Good luck.

[Scrappy]

My opinion is if you are looking for an amazingly high image quality color video and have the extra money, go for the hvx, and if you're looking for the elusive film look go for the hd100.

[El Bachorino]

Ok, thanx so far.
Differences between firestore and p2?
Depth of focus - is Panasonic closer to Sony or Canon? (Sony unfortunately having a close to infinity focus in most situations, and Canon having a more reduced focus)

[nsoltz]

Difference between Firestore and P2 is simple-- 100 gb hard drive vs 8 gb (max) solid state card. Firewire hard drive vs solid state storage. Head crashes vs solid state dependability. Lower cost per gig vs higher cost per gig. I could rant on....

Ned Soltz

[El Bachorino]

ehh.. I mean the difference in what they are able to record?

Only the P2 card does 1080i right? But there are other differences as well? 702pn on P2 only?

If I go with tape then it seems that with panasonic i get sd w good color (DVCpro) and with the others i get HDV or SD. Panasonic is also more expensive. So if I go w pana 200 then I'll need firestore or P2. P2 is too expensive for me, and don't hold enough information. So if firestore isn't the way to go I'll end up with another camera I think..

[DavidBeier]

My opinion is if you are looking for an amazingly high image quality color video and have the extra money, go for the hvx, and if you're looking for the elusive film look go for the hd100.

Interesting. I find the HVX200 to look much more filmic, especially with the richer colors and more filmic gamma curve.

[brianluce]

In spite of the fact they're all 1/3", the cams are priced way differently. when you calculate price, don't forget to include the price of p2 and/or firestore.

asside from pricing, what do you need it for? for movies the hvx is great, but it's short record times make it less suitable for documentaries.

[Scrappy]

Davidbeier, in all the footage I have been able to download, I've always found the hvx image quality outstanding but maybe cause it's so good at giving you that feeling of being right there in the picture, that might be what is giving it that very strong video feel. I must admit though, most of the footage I see may not be from a shooter that is going for a film look. If there are some links that you can suggest for film like footage, I'd appreciate it.

[El Bachorino]

What are the things that P2 can record and Firestore can't? 1080p and 720 24pn ?
How is depth of focus compared to either JVC GY-HD100, CanonXL1 or SonyZ1 ?

[JitCam]

"Is HVX200 answer?"

-oh yeah

[andy_starbuck]

1. The HVX200 shoots only DV / DVCPRO to tape. DVCPRO50 and HD can only be shot to P2. However, you can shoot to P2 and then dub to tape in DV in the camera. So all the special effects like variable frame rate are still available to you even if you are shooting in DV to tape.

2. The HVX200 will shoot in interlaced or progressive to tape in DV mode, and will shoot in interlaced and progressive in the various HD formats to P2.

3. I don't have a Firestore, but I suggest that you consider your complete workflow. If you are shooting movies, then going for 20 minutes on two 4G P2 cards and dumping them, or even rotating a third card and having an assistant dump them to a computer is an option. One thing is for sure; you have to learn to work differently when you aren't going to tape. But once you get used to the P2, you'll never want to go back to tape. I kept looking at the Firestore to try to duplicat the DV/tape experience. Fact is, I don't work that way now.

4. To transfer the P2 cards you either need a) a P2 Store (which does the transfer to its internal 60 GB disk), b) a Mac laptop with a built-in PCMCIA card slot, c) a PC with a Type II Cardbus PCMCIA card slot, d) a 5-slot P2 interface from Panasonic, e) a Firewire Drive, f) the HVX200 video camera and a firewire connection to a Mac with Final Cut Pro. (Maybe other Windows NLEs "ingest" P2 cards ... I just use Mac/FCP).

If you are able to work in blocks of time, shooting and downloading by yourself -- if you can shoot for 20 minutes and then occupy the camera for 20 minutes -- then consider using the HVX200 in slave mode and "ingesting" the files into Final Cut Pro. Its reasonably fast. It requires no extra hardware since the cards stay in the camera. And it doesn't require a card slot. There are Pros and Cons to each method.

I wouldn't use the HVX200 without a P2 card. You miss out on 720p24PN "native" recording, which includes all the variable frame rate features. Plus, I want to pick up my camera and go handheld sometimes, even if just for a few minutes.

The Firestore might be a good answer if you are shooting documentary or events where you have to keep it running and not miss the action AND if your output has to be high definition. But the question then is what output? If you are going to DVD in DV mode as output, why not just shoot tape in DV mode?

5. The HVX200 has various shutter speeds, but it doesn't do the "slow shutter" like the DVX did. So its not so easy to get "color smearing" if you want that particular effect.

6. The 5400ma battery that came with my HVX200 runs about 4 hours when recording DV to tape.

7. Slow motion (variable frame rate recording) does not record sound as soon as you change the rate from standard. So you either record the sound during a separate take at normal speeds, or using an alternate audio recording system.

8. Depth of focus: Take a look at the Redrock M2 Cinema Lens Adapter. That's one of the best solutions to depth of focus and focus control. No 1/3" camera alone will give you decent depth blur under most conditions because of the realtionship between focus and the final size of the image. The 35mm lens adapter is the answer.

9. If depth of focus is that important to you, take a look at the support system and products such as their MicroFollowFocus. It may change the accessories you purchase.

10. You need a UV filter or clear glass filter on the front of your camera at all times to protect it, unless you are attaching something else to the lens. Its just too dangerous to leave a multi-thousand dollar camera unprotected for the sake of a $50 piece of glass.

11. The LCD on the HVX200 features EVF (peaking) and Focus Assist (that magnifies the center portion of the image temporarily when in HD mode to help you focus). If you go with a 35mm lens adapter, the image will be inverted, and you will probably want an external monitor -- but one that can be mounted upside down or that has an "invert" button built-in. Also, you will want that for focus.

I've been happy with the native LCD when using the HVX with a lens adapter.

[DC]

Like David, Richard, Ned (and others) . . .


I agree. The HVX/P2 combo is winner. The "positive" aspects of the HVX far outweigh anything "negative" about the HVX. I would say that you should get a monitor (like the Marshall 7") and have a PCMCIA equipped laptop on set too. Save your pennies a little longer if you have to - it's worth it!

I, along with many on here, posted some (hopefully) useful info about this stuff:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=57697

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=50827&page=2

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=56095&page=3

[Barry_Green]

I think Andy Starbuck needs to post more. Only 61 posts so far, but they're all solid helpful winners! Thanks for helping the community, Andy!


7. Slow motion (variable frame rate recording) does not record sound as soon as you change the rate from standard. So you either record the sound during a separate take at normal speeds, or using an alternate audio recording system.
Let me point out that there's another option. If you shoot in 720/60p mode instead of "native" mode, then the audio will be recorded in-camera. So you'd have to conform the footage using the Apple FRC in post to make the footage behave like "native mode" slow-mo, but you would have the audio too.

[andy_starbuck]

Thanks, Barry. And thanks for helping me learn.

[cinemakinoeye]

Have you seen "The Invaluable Guide to the AG-HVX200" from Panasonic? This is a 64 page mega-brochure chock full of information about the features and capabilities of the AG-HVX200 with excellent illustrations and explanations, it's a good read for prospective buyers and new users, see: http://panasonic.biz/sav/p2/ (PDF document are available for both the AG-HVX200E (European/PAL) and AG-HVX200P (US/NTSC) versions of the camera).