HVX image flaw, possible camera wide issue!!!!

[Dominic Howes]

Hi,

I am new to this forum but I have an HVX 200 dilemma that maybe someone
can help out with. We bought this camera a few months ago for a large doc.
project we are working on. After shooting 75 hours in DV tape (24p,
anamorphic) mode we noticed on capture into Final Cut that the footage is
missing its top line of info. We only see black. If you watch the raw tape
on special monitors it shows the line/picture info as NOT missing but upon
capture into Final Cut it's gone, with a small black line at the top of
the screen. I am using the usual NTSC settings I have used for years with
my DVX (also 24p anamorphic settings) to capture the tapes
and also using the latest Final Cut 5.1

One other problem is that when we shoot HD onto the P2 card and do an internal
camera dub to tape the "missing" line shows itself on the bottom of the
screen. This time though, the line is actually truly missing info on the
tape, according to the diagnostic monitor which shows all lines of info on
a scope. If you shoot onto the P2 card in Standard Def. 480i 24p, the black line
is there also (again on top).

My dealer tested their cameras and found the same problem with the others
in their stock. So this leads me to believe that the HVX (DV tape mode
and 480i on the P2) is somehow incompatible with Final Cut and or Quicktime.
Also the incamera HD to Tape dub feature is flawed. Any ideas anyone????
We've tried many experiments on different systems and HVX cameras to no avail.
Possible camera wide flaw.....

check the jpeg out and zoom in on the top line, its all black!!!

[Barry_Green]

There's one pixel-high line that's black. That's hardly a "camera-wide flaw" or anything. Until very recently I think most every DV camera has always had at least one, if not several pixels on each side that were blacked out, the Canon XL1 had (IIRC) four pixels on each side that were all set to black. They did that because the edges weren't always super-clean; on the DVX Panasonic did away with that but the tradeoff is that you can see a pixel-wide purple fringe on the left and maybe also on the right, I don't remember exactly. Canon's solution was to just cover it up with black.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=94
http://www.dvcreators.net/discuss/showthread.php?t=10366

So the HVX in SD mode has a single pixel-high black line. Not ideal, I guess, but hardly a camera-wide-flaw or incompatible-with-FCP type of issue, it's a single black line (which, again, is a lot less than other cameras have traditionally had). Every television ever made is going to overscan and that black line won't be visible anyway.

[mcgeedigital]

I agree, that is WAY outside of the safe area.

[TimurCivan]

at least its not Right down the middle.

That would be terrible.

[Scrappy]

Dominique, I think it's time to clean your back yard. Seriously, I didn't see the black line.

[David Saraceno]

Image is pretty small.

Can't see a black line

[PunkMetalDrummer17]

It's at the very very top......

The very top line. It looks like a border basically.\

It would definately be chopped off by a televison (due to overscan).

[J.R. Hudson]

Hey, I bought Mad Max and the imagery has these Black Bars on the tops and the bottom.

What the hell ?

http://www.moviesbystarlight.com/widescreen/madmaxwidescreen.jpg





















http://my.opera.com/Idonotlikebroccoli/homes/albums/3758/thumbs/noob.jpg_thumb.jpg



This may be the Thread of the Week.

[ESTEBEVERDE]

They just put the black line there so people who are easily confused know which way is up! ;-)

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Hey, I bought Mad Max and the imagery has these Black Bars on the tops and the bottom.

What the hell ?

http://www.moviesbystarlight.com/widescreen/madmaxwidescreen.jpg



This may be the Thread of the Week.



I would send it back for a refund Fewl!!!! :costumed-smiley-047

[Dominic Howes]

Hey all,

Thanks for the replies everyone. I guess we won't worry about it so much if it is "normal" to have a black line (for those who can't see it, you should double check, it's there.) It still seems a bit weird to have "missing" line in our Final Cut sequences (yes, glad it's not in the middle!!!) It doesn't match up against the DVX which we use as a B cam. No problems with the DVX. We have been blowing up our shots just a fraction to match the full image size of the DVX, but that reduces the image quality somewhat. We could just crop the DVX footage to match but who wants to eliminate picture info. Granted everyone talks about "overscan" and all, but it just sucks to have an issue with something that we depend on for so much of our work. It does seem to be a camera wide issue, but according to ya'll, not a problem. OK.

I am working with Panasonic tech support on the issue. I just left a message for Jan Crittenden so hopefully I will get some feedback as to the "normality" of a black line....

Thanks
Dominic

[J.R. Hudson]

Why is it an issue ?

1. It has already been noted that the overscan will remedy this.
2. A Letterbox will remedy this
3. No one will notice it

Don't think perhaps you're making a big deal about this ?

[dougspice]

1. Not everything gets overscanned.
2. Not everything gets letterboxed.
3. HE clearly noticed it, and I've noticed it myself in the past. If it bothers him, it's a valid complaint. *I* decided to ignore it and move on; if it really really bothered me it's easily fixed with a few minutes post (plus a few hours rendering... but if it really really bothered me...)

[J.R. Hudson]

If it bothers him, it's a valid complaint

I wouldn't go that far. But that is nice and PC

So, it bothers you too ? Are you serious ?



What projects would show this ?

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Just crop one pixel off the bottom to match. :D

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Just crop one pixel off the bottom to match.

Line Box! :D

[dougspice]

What projects would show this ?

Doesn't bother me MUCH, but yeah, a little. As for what projects would show it... well, if I wanted to use the full frame on the web I can tell you from experience that some compression will take that single black line and add artifacting and fringing, making it far more apparent. Easily enough fixed but it would be nice if I never had to worry about it.

[Dominic Howes]

OK already!! I guess it's totally normal and can be cropped and rendered away. Though it's true I have noticed a strange artifact when rendering fast or slow motion, but again I guess we can crop and render. It's very true that most folks would never notice the line difference even when cutting between shots from the DVX and HVX. But you will have to correct for any fast/slomo renders cuz of the afore mentioned artifact. You get a studdering line of image instead of a black line. Too bad for a $6,000 camera to have to always "correct" for it in post.

One possible solution: I think I am gonna go back to shooting on my Canon one chipper ZR50, love that interlaced video look, and no black line :)

[David Saraceno]

I wouldn't go that far. But that is nice and PC

Perhaps it could be explained how stating a concern about this issue is being "politically correct?"

He's got a concern, and he's come here for assistance.

Why not just leave it at that?

best wishes

[mcgeedigital]

Hey, I bought Mad Max and the imagery has these Black Bars on the tops and the bottom.

What the hell ?

http://www.moviesbystarlight.com/widescreen/madmaxwidescreen.jpg


I blame the Toecutter! Hehehe..............

[J.R. Hudson]

Perhaps it could be explained how stating a concern about this issue is being "politically correct?"

He's got a concern, and he's come here for assistance.

Why not just leave it at that?

best wishes

Relax David. Dougspice and I already covered that point. There is no need for you to jump onto the bandwagon. Is there a crime in asking for more detail on why this is such a major issue ? You are taking it too seriously if you mistook the Mad Max comment as anything but fun. When did this place lose it's sense of humor ?

I can't wait for the next 'What is this clunck?' question.

http://www.hdbeat.com/images/2005/09/downer.jpg

:violent5:

-

I can't see it being an issue but if you guy's do then I suppose it is (Cough bs cough) . I suggest we focus our attention back on to the noise issue.

http://www.juliefreeman.co.uk/images/wn_flyer_web_sml.jpg

:love4:

Let the flames of Malcontent spread !

[David Saraceno]

I'm not anxious John.

No need to tell me to relax. Not certain what that has to do with the poster's concern.

And as to me "jumping on a bandwagon" as you refer to it, I'm posting an opinion about a concern someone has.

This isn't about me or you, it's about helping people, and giving attention to their concerns.

Best wishes to you as always.

[J.R. Hudson]

I didn't say you were acting anxious David. (Those are your words)

Bad day ?

-

Let's close this thread before people start getting dramatic.