fs-100 & hvx200 issues

[wigby]

has anyone shot and edited yet using hvx200 and the firestore fs-100? i just got mine and am having real issues not only recording but importing. i'm not a newbie but feel like one when i go through the poor documentation from both panasonic and focus enhancements. panasonic never mentions firestore so it's unclear what the settings should be. everything is about p2 so do i assume the cam sees the fs-100 as a p2 device? the firestore manual briefly mentions the hvx200 but says nothing about the p2 format that it gives the user the option to record in. but i'm not here to bash. i just feel like i'm the first one to use these two new products together. my questions are:

if i want to to capture 1080 24p onto the firestore, what are the hvx settings for 1394 control? ext, both?
for pc mode? 1394 device? host?

on the fs-100, do i capture in raw dv or p2? how do i import the p2 files? (i got this far but fcp says selected path does not contain a p2 volume)
raw dv was just a mess when i imported that.

any suggestions would be helpful.

thanks

[Green Hornet]

It would seem that edius broadcast could edit straight from the firestore without the need to import. Is this the case?

[Ernie Kovacs]

here's a bit I copied from another post that helped a lot.

In your Firestore...
Go to the "Control" menu and choose "Tapeless".

On you HVX200...
Go to your Camera Menu>Other Options>1394 Control. Then choose "Ext".

You are now setup properly.

Make sure the firewire is hooked between the two.
Turn off the camera.
Put the FS-100 into Record-pause mode by hitting the RECORD button once.
Now turn on your camera and it should work properly.

[Letter_Boxed]

ernie pretty much sumed it up. the only issues ive had is an ocasional drop out, during camera moves, while in dvcproHD. think its due to the firewire moving

[JPproductions]

One other thing is, I think, after you shoot you are supposed to Organize P2 in the Firerstore which breaks the footage up into Content and Audio. Still figuring out all the details myself with the equipment and workflow.

[Brian Petersen]

the only issues ive had is an ocasional drop out, during camera moves, while in dvcproHD. think its due to the firewire moving

That sounds like a big issue to me. I'll be moving the camera around a bit, moving handheld, etc on a feature coming up this summer and the idea of a firestore sounds nice, but dropouts on moving shots would kill me.

Before I purchased the camera I was basically thinking I wasn't going to do much until the firestore or the cineporter, but I have to be honest, I love working with the P2 cards and the idea of spinning drives moving around doesn't sound too good to me anymore.

[Letter_Boxed]

Just shoot some composite work for a feature, given outside temp was 112*f, had 2 problems, HVX randomly said "1394 external disconect" verry strange, after rebooting everything and still having the issue it just corrected itself...

other problem with the drop out, this time we shot 720p, and had the drop out. now given the gear has less than 1 hour of shooting time on it, the first batch still had the drop out. Same as in 1080i. this time though, the camera and drive were stationary, no gitter to the firewire at all. so i am 100% perplexed as to the cause of the drop out, our editor thinks it may be in the software on the fs100 on on final cuts update patch, the last possiblity being on the firewire cables its self. even stranger the second batch of footage we shot same ext. conditions, came out fine, i did do a system reset on the FS100, reformat, and everything since then has been very clean. Causing me to wonder if thier is a "break in time" for the fs100. I have asked focus, so when i hear from them ill post what they say. 1 thing i have to say about the set up is a HD monitor is 100% needed for focusing HD, i have the marshal 7" and you can see a world of diffrence comparing it with the onboard LCD..

[C. Keiser]

I too have had a lot of difficulty with the FS-100 and my HVX200.

FWIW, I have been extremely conscientious to be careful of the cable connections and movement of the unit.

While shooting documentary footage today, the FS unit seized on me a number of times. By some bizarre chance, it was always after I had captured my shot and was ready to put the camera down for a minute.

Unfortunately I was not able to get the device to react from any button input and was forced to shut the thing down by removing the battery.

This occurred while shooting 480i DVCPRO50 footage.

Then when I got a chance to offload the files to my Powerbook, it seized up 4 times (with the obligatory batter removal to reboot) before I was able to successfully get it to navigate to and utilize the mount as HDD command.
Imagine my relief when it finally worked and I knew that my weekends work was not lost.

To the FS-100's credit, all of my clips were preserved.

To say the least, I do not have much confidence in this thing. I am ready to return it and purchase some P2 cards despite my feeling that they don't really suit my style of working.

Additionally, last week when my whole camera package arrived and I was doing tests with the FS unit, I was having difficulty getting it to communicate with my camera. I called and emailed around 11 am Pacific time. Nobody got back to me until the next day at 2 pm! Thank goodness I wasn't stuck on-location.


Can somebody honestly tell us that they are having a great experience with the FS-100 and Focus Enhancements?

Christopher

[Ryan Hawk]

<<<Can somebody honestly tell us that they are having a great experience with the FS-100 and Focus Enhancements?>>>


Well, I've not put it through all the scenarios yet, but I'm able to use mine with good consistency right now. The user experience of the FS-100 is not exactly intuitive (the Page 63 of the user's manual "Organize P2" step being one example). But Hey, it's allowing me to get a heck of a lot more than on my P2 cards. It works for me... for now.

[JPproductions]

1394 external dissconnect problem, for me, was the firewire cables fault that came with the FS100. I read somebody having the exact same problem too. So they maybe just sent out cheap firewire cables. And I do remember the manual telling you to turn off the FS100 when connecting to prevent static electricity which, if it was real touchy, could be the problem. (of course they say not to open your car dar when pumping gas because of static too. Has anyone actually blown up from static?)

BTW, I talked Focus Enhancements before I figured the problem and even though not a lot of help, they at least listened and say that they would have a more complete quick-start guide by Thursday.

Also, I still need to figure out the best workflow. I've copied and pasted previous post on the matter, and I am hoping to have tonight to play around with it. Would love to hear other people's workflow though, especially if they are PC Avid with FS100.

[C. Keiser]

Just to reiterate, I had the problem of it seizing up when the camera was on a tripod and the FS-100 was attached to the camera. No movement involved. And it seized up again when I was sitting in a chair, trying to connect it to a Powerbook.

Also of note, I didn't even bother unpacking the cheapo FireWire (1394) cable that shipped with it and instead used my much nicer cables from the start.

Speaking of cables, has anyone found a right angle 1394 cable anywhere? It might reduce the chance of the cable getting budged or pulled out. It would need to be right angle on the 4 pin side.

Glad this forum exists so that I don't feel like I am the only one going crazy.

-Christopher

[nycfilmmaker]

sorry but we are all professionals or aspiring to be one. TO shoot on a HVX and capture via a firewire that has no lock is so ridiculous -- I know there are no locks for firewire but Focus Enhancement should of been able to come up with something better than a flimsy connection -- Yes, options are very LIMITED, but the fact of the matter is that the people at Focus Enhancement DON"T GIVE A SHIIT!! They should of put more thought into the unit and theat screwed up manual! This is a 1600dollar plus unit not some cheap hardware -- or is it(?)

They know that when options are slim and far apart they could get away with murder; But not for long.

I hope a rep from firestore is on this board so he or she could listen up and put out a pro unit. I'm not here to ingratiate. 1 star out of 5!!

[BenB]

What about getting over and under cranking frame rates out of the FS-100?

[Cut2muz]

Man, I agree about Focus' lack of seeming to care. i've emailed and left messages and gotten no reply yet, oh, 1 email that told me to look at a page in the manual which at best is some hirogliphic translation into english which makes no sense. I don't think they know how to use the damn thing. The reel numbering thing stinks, it IS NOT instantly available to the edit system, and the cell phone clip thing is a joke. I've done a lot of Velcro and Foam art to get this thing stable and safe from banging into things. I also had to send my first one back as the battery posts broke off inside the unit because the battery took a sledge hammer to get off. I'm disappointed but I need it. It's like a bad marriage (which I wish I couldn't relate to) that you know will end soon. I just wish and keep searching for someone who has a good workflow to get the Firestore stuff into a 24p FCP project properly. I'm about to have to change over to a 60f project and have FCP do the pulldown on output. PLEASE FOCUS OR PANASONIC, HELP US OUT. Their commitment should not end at the end of the shoot. We have to edit this stuff.

Don Wilson
AmericanaMediaInc.com

[C. Keiser]

Well at least I am not the only one being treated poorly, so that makes me feel part of the HVX community already:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG).

As far as my earlier question about a source for right angle Firewire cables, I found some. http://snipurl.com/ql7q (http://snipurl.com/ql7q)
That should reduce the chance of knocking your camera end connection out. Yet I must reiterate that I have had Firestore hang-ups while everything was locked down.

In fact yesterday I attempted to start it up to get a quick vista shot in downtown San Francisco with some fantastic golden hour light. And the damn thing wouldn't work at all. The unit starts up, then hangs without even giving me the welcome screen. The only way to shut it down was by removing the battery. Don't get me started on how difficult battery removal is....:furious3:

After I get a replacement unit sent to me, anyone want to buy it?:)

Question: How many emoticons is too many? LOL.

Christopher

[Ryan Hawk]

I hear you on the battery. Sucks. And user friendliness is not really part of the manual or user interface on the unit. But man is it better than tape importing. Sure is a lot of bleeding on the cutting edge of tech. The price we pay I guess.

[cbdv]

So, my FS100 just came in and I a supposed to pull the trigger tomorrow...... you guys are not making me feel overly comfortable, I am to shoot a music video on Monday.
Better off with cards or going via firewire? I sure don't want to spend 2K for something that doesn't work????

[C. Keiser]

cbdv,
I did tests with my FS-100 for 2 days and everything worked fine. Went into the field and everything went to hell.
It seems that some folks are having an okay go with their units. That being said, I obviously did not get one of those.
Use it as much as possible before you go out. Get used to the wonky menu interface.
Be prepared to have a backup solution.
Frankly, if I were shooting in studio or location situations where I could have someone downloading P2 cards between takes, I wouldn't bother using anything else.
Good luck.
-Christopher

[Matthew McEwen]

Hello,

I Have been reading the threads on this forum regarding FS-100 and I would like to help where I can. Here is some answers for you from this particular thread:

1) As I have posted elsewhere on DVXUser, we are investigating the drop out issue now and we will hopefully have more information shortly. If anyone has additional information about what they were doing when the issue occurred (e.g. was it after deleting a clip? was it toward the end of the disk drive? was it in a shock environment etc. please email me at mmcewen at focusinfo.com. The more information we have, the easier it will be to find a quick resolution.

2) The FS-100 menu system is the same as that used on thousands of FS-4 units. I am sure that as with all things new, it may take a while to get used to. I am sorry it is causing you frustration. Regarding the manual, we do have a QuickStart document that will be available shortly. This should hopefully address some of the issues regarding setup with the camera.

3) We have noted the request for right angled FireWire cables and we have begun looking into the feasibility of adding these. Unfortunately, all the right angle cables we have had in the past have needed to be specially tooled and have been 6-pin, not 4-pin. But anyway, we are looking at sourcing one. As someone has already pointed out, the 4-pin FireWire connector is quite delicate and does require care when using FireStore. We will do our best to come up with a good solution.

4) Regarding tech support, I have passed this thread to our tech support manager and he will contact you all directly. Please send me your emails and phone numbers to mmcewen at focusinfo.com

5) Battery fit. There has been reports that some batteries have been hard to remove. These batteries are covered under warranty and tech support will replace them if required. Again, please pass me your details.

6) Workflow. We do have a Final Cut Pro workflow paper available on our FAQ page. You can download it at: http://www.focusinfo.com/support/faq_topics.asp . Select FS-100 and it is in the third FAQ in the list. Don Berube, one of our beta testers, wrote this paper. We are working on a version for Avid workflow now.

7) 24p and slow mo - there is another thread about this on DVXuser ... http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=57319 Hopefully, this can answer some questions. Our FCP workflow white paper does cover 24p issues as well.

Hope this helps,

Matt McEwen
Focus

[cbdv]

Thanks Matt & Christopher for your insight & thoughts-, these are big decisions for us and we need to be making the right moves. We'll see what today brings...

[Bob Fagan]

I've been a satisfied user of two FS-4s and for $600 each, it was well worth the price and saved me loads of time. Saying that, I am very hesitant about the FS-100. I wasn't crazy about the FS-4 interface and it sounds like there has been little improvement in that area. ( To tell users they need to get "use to it" is a bit strange because the UI is suppose to be made for the customer...to force the customer to train themselves to the engineer's idea of a UI is like telling us to go back to DOS.)

The FS-100 advertisement says it allows you to edit immediately "without conversion", yet it sounds like you still have to go through a P2 conversion of the MXF files to QT. The PDF makes it sound like this.

So besides the greater length in recording time (and not in all formats)...it doesn't sound like a great deal. I would certainly like to have the same ability as the FS-4 where it cut my production time (no log & capture)...eliminated tape dropouts...and increased my recording time...gave me the ability to have tape archive as well as instant file access.
Unfortunately the FS-100 sounds like it just extends the recording time while giving possibility of "adding drop outs." No instant access.

I am rooting for Focus to fix these things and it sounds like, except for the UI, you are looking into it. Good luck.

[Matthew McEwen]

Hi Bob,

Believe me, we are taking notes about the comments on the UI. Feedback will hopefully allow us to improve it for the future. My point in referencing the FS-4 interface was that we do have many customers who do find the interface acceptable. But we do appreciate everyone's feedback!

We did add three function keys on the front panel of the FS-100 which allow the user to have a quick link to commonly accessed functions rather than diving down into the menu.

Regarding workflow and the importation of FireStore created clips, it really depends on what NLE you are using, hence our claim of being able to use the clips immediately in editing applications. For instance, on Avid (using the MediaTool) and Canopus Edius Broadcast, it is possible to use the MXF P2 files instantly in the timeline (with the clips residing on the FS-100). The exception at present is Final Cut which does not work natively with MXF P2 files...the import step converts the clips to QuickTime clips, the same process as a P2 card. As I am sure you are aware, in DV25 mode, FS-100 does allow you to record in the the native QuickTime DV format using our DTE (Direct To Edit®) Technology.

Hope that helps.

Matt McEwen

[Jarred Land]

My emails to Firestore are going unanswered, and I smell trouble.. hope it goes away, im going to be keeping an eye on your guys who own them feedback so we can decide if the product is a go or a no.. so keep me updated.

The thought of droupouts from recording pretty much ruins the entire advantage of both the P2 system and the DVCproHD single gop codec.

[scannon]

My emails to Firestore are going unanswered, and I smell trouble.. hope it goes away, im going to be keeping an eye on your guys who own them feedback so we can decide if the product is a go or a no.. so keep me updated.

The thought of droupouts from recording pretty much ruins the entire advantage of both the P2 system and the DVCproHD single gop codec.

I own the FS-4 and had some problems with recording 24p AVI II with the FS-4 setting. I asked about this to FS-4 support numerous times and received only one cryptic reply but no help. I have seen this same complaint throughout he messages boards ad-nausiam.

I am not a candidate for their newproduct without a lot of convincing that

1: It realy works

2: they decide to provide a much better level of support than I have experienced to date.

BTW the FS-4 records 24p but I use the standard AVI II recording mode as there seems to be pulldown issues with their 24p recording mode. The lack of specific documentation is problematic with the FS-4 and is continuing with the FS-100.

S Cannon

[Matthew McEwen]

Jared and others, what are your questions? Who did you send an email to Jared? I would like to find out why these are not getting answered. I am here to help. I work for Focus, I guess I should have added that to my profile. If anyone has questions and want answers offline, please contact me at mmcewen at focusinfo.com.

As I mentioned on a post elsewhere, we are still investigating the drop out issue. I hope to have answer shortly.

Thanks,

Matt McEwen
Focus Enhancements

[Vanderpool Films]

<SNIP>

Speaking of cables, has anyone found a right angle 1394 cable anywhere? It might reduce the chance of the cable getting budged or pulled out. It would need to be right angle on the 4 pin side.

Glad this forum exists so that I don't feel like I am the only one going crazy.

-Christopher


Greetings All,

New member here. Decades of film experience / days of HVX200. Director/DP (IATSE 600) / Avid & FCP editor.

An excellent high quality (Motorola OEM) right angle 4-pin Firewire adapter can be found here.

http://www.yourwirelesssource.com/shop/5/accessory/268924?source=Froogle

$4.25 Good retail site owned by Tessco - big OEM distributor. I keep 4 in my camera/PB edit kit. Hope this helps.

Kindest Regards,

Charles
vanderpoolfilms.com

[Jarred Land]

very very cool Charles.. thanks for the link, you kick ass.

[Anders Holck]

Isn't that a mini usb2 connector?

[Jarred Land]

no its a firewire right angle.. so you plug that into your camera and it puts the cable alongside the camera instead of sticking out where it can shake around. I think firestore should see about getting right angle cables in the box.

[BenB]

Ok, just shot for two days with an HVX200 and the FireStore FS-100. The whole thing strapped to a CineSaddle so I could move around a Powwow and get the dancers.

Three times the HVX200 began flashing a message on the screen that the 1392 connection had been lost. Unplugging and re-plugging the Firewire plug on the FS-100 end re-established the connection.

I find the menu system easy to use. It's not that hard to learn. And I have equipment that is difficult to get through, the FS-100 is a VERY easy menu system to get through, I found.

Booting it up takes FOREVER! And we'd set up our portable edit bay in my van. A 17" Mac Powerbook with an extrenal Firewire hard drive as the media drive. Both FULL P2 cards took 3 and 4 minutes respectively to copy data. The FS-100 ran for an hour and a half and only something like 3.5 Gigs had been copied, our of 25.44 GB.

But then on our G4/2.0 tower, it took a whole 30 minutes. We copy files from drive to drive all the time. Across USB, Firewire, AirPort Extreme, and I've never seen 25 GB take so long to copy. I can only assume there's something on the FS-100 side that makes it copy so gosh darned slow!

Oh, and the only reason we only got half the drive filled up is that the batter went dead. So be aware that the battery only lasts half as long as actual recording time. You'll for sure want to buy and extra battery!

I'll be in touch with Focus in the morning to go over some technical stuff. Nice unit, but it really needs some SERIOUS maturing in the mean time.

It is also very good to see someone from Focus here collecting feedback! Thanks guys!

And oh, get someone who actually knows how to use a Mac to write the Mac specific stuff in the User Guide! It's so off base it's not funny!

Looking forward to changes being made. I'm on the fence as to wether this will be the solution for my documentary staring in a few weeks. I'm using a test model for a review. I'll wait and see what fixes come down the pipe in the next couple of weeks.

Don't plan on fast transfers of P2 data to your local drives!

Check the July Event DV magazine, y'all!!!!

[Letter_Boxed]

Well as of the moment, it looks like the "drop out" is completly gone, hard to say, but the drop out originally occured on a diffrent batch of footage and showed on a final cut system. On an avid system, with the new firewire cable, and new footage, after filling the drive and wipping it 3 times over, it looks like the drop out is gone. at least when i view the footage "in avid" . Problems now, are on the post side, with frame rates, and i cant seem to export the footage at all. the avid release is 5.2.4. so gotta figure this batch of work flow issues out...... getting frustrating to say the least at this point. ive got around 10k tied up between my hvx, fs100, & marshal, and im the one doing R&D..... wtf, at least panasonic and focus are dilegently trying to fix it all.

[Bryan Xin]

Greetings All,

An excellent high quality (Motorola OEM) right angle 4-pin Firewire adapter can be found here.

http://www.yourwirelesssource.com/shop/5/accessory/268924?source=Froogle

Actually, Anders is right. I just ordered a couple without really looking at them closely and they are mini USB 5 pin adaptors, not right angle firewire adaptors. Oops.

[BenB]

no its a firewire right angle.. so you plug that into your camera and it puts the cable alongside the camera instead of sticking out where it can shake around. I think firestore should see about getting right angle cables in the box.

Take a hard look at the female slot in the photo at that link, that's a USB connection!

[Jarred Land]

yeah yeah we all have figured that out ben, ha ha.. so we still need to find a solution.

[C. Keiser]

I found these right angle FW cables at Markertek.
http://snipurl.com/ql7q
I haven't ordered one yet. Still not sure if I will keep my FS-100, so I don't want to buy any more accessories for it.
BTW. Focus did replace my unit, initial tests show it to be stable. I am just very gun-shy after my first bad experience.
Best,
Christopher

[accelv]

Thamks for the thoughtful reply, Matt. My biggest issue with the 100 is the cost. It is way too expensive! Considering the cost of a 100 gb hd is under $100., where is the rest of the expense? If P2 cards were less expensive, I'm sure the 100 would be much less.

In fact, one could buy a MacBook for about $1600. with a 100 gb drive and capture thru FCP. Okay, it's a bit bulkier in the field, but one would get an entire computer as a bonus.

[C. Keiser]

Well after all of my kvetching about the lousy experience with my first FS-100 unit, I must report a good experience.

I shot run and gun style for 4 hours yesterday, and I didn't lose connection/control once. I am now knocking on wood....

I haven't yet purchased one of the Markertek, right angle FW cables. Still everything worked out. Speaking of right angle cables, do you think that the large capacity batteries will get in the way of the plug? It looks like it should clear, but would like to know if anyone has already tried one. http://snipurl.com/ql7q

FWIW, we used the HVX 200 as the A Cam in a two camera shoot, the B Cam was the SDX900. Crazy you say? The subject was difficult to follow, and the size of the HVX made this the preferred solution. Captured in DVCPro 50, and everything matched up nicely.

Happy to have you folks as resource....
Christopher

[Suede]

I know there is a different forum for this, but I'm hoping to catch Mathew's eye on this one. Is there any documention regarding the FS-100 and the Frame Rate Convertor. I've been getting nothing but errors. Any help would be appreciated.

[Matthew McEwen]

See my post on the Technical forum.
Matt

[DCSensui]

Here's another right-angle firewire connector.

Note that there's two types, one that will allow the cable to hang downward from the HVX200 and another one that will allow it to hang upward.

One is a 64L01 and another is a 64R01.

http://www.usbfirewire.com/Parts/rr-64l01-72.html
http://www.usbfirewire.com/Parts/rr-64r01-24g.html

[Toaster]

Man this is really bad news.

I'm ready to buy the HVX, but I need a solid and stable (and beefy) capturing device .. and I thought the FS-100 was the way to go. 2 & 4 gig P2 cards are just not a viable option ... I can't be swapping out cards and creating files on a laptop etc. I've got too much going on during a shoot already ... and adding a degree of uncertainty and relative complications just doesn't work for me.

Do I have a point? Eh, I guess not. Just bummed.

But I will say this: If I was Focus, and knew that I basically had a captive audience and an opportunity to really make a great impression with my product(s).. I wouldn't leave the lab until I had the most incredible unit ... with a price that wasn't an insult (i.e., buy the FS-100 for lots of cash and it might work. Or it might not. If it doesn't, then email us.) It's crazy.

[Jarred Land]

well there are 8gb cards. but firestore is trying hard to solve most of these problems.

[BenB]

I'm having a wonderful experience with my FS-100.

[mark.burton]

Another firmware update today has solved a few issues and added a few new features, I'd say Focus are sticking to their word so far which is a very good sign.

With regard to these right angle cables, they look good, but are a bit long, shortest one I could see is 6ft long. Anyone tried them out yet? Are they good quality cables?

[THoff]

Another firmware update today has solved a few issues and added a few new features, I'd say Focus are sticking to their word so far which is a very good sign.

With regard to these right angle cables, they look good, but are a bit long, shortest one I could see is 6ft long. Anyone tried them out yet? Are they good quality cables?
There's a 24" version available here:

http://www.usbfirewire.com/firewire.html

[mark.burton]

Thanks THoff, well spotted. Anyone tried these?

[hatchmo]

FireWire Depot has a whole page of angled cables, some of them actually on the flat, rather than the long direction.

http://fwdepot.com/thestore/default.php/cPath/2_97

[jtanzer]

While shooting documentary footage today, the FS unit seized on me a number of times. By some bizarre chance, it was always after I had captured my shot and was ready to put the camera down for a minute.

Unfortunately I was not able to get the device to react from any button input and was forced to shut the thing down by removing the battery.

This occurred while shooting 480i DVCPRO50 footage.

Then when I got a chance to offload the files to my Powerbook, it seized up 4 times (with the obligatory batter removal to reboot) before I was able to successfully get it to navigate to and utilize the mount as HDD command.
Imagine my relief when it finally worked and I knew that my weekends work was not lost. . . .

Can somebody honestly tell us that they are having a great experience with the FS-100 and Focus Enhancements?

Christopher

Unfortunately, that "somebody" would not be me. We had the same types of problems repeatedly, despite having brought 7 FS-100 units with us. The culprit may have been plain old ordinary summer weather. We had two drives freeze in 80-plus-degree weather at 8 a.m. in Japan, thus losing irreplaceable footage of the Hiroshima anniversary including the prime minister's speech. (Thought about asking him to just repeat the whole thing, but didn't know the Japanese for that.)

We contacted Focus about this problem from Spain and Japan, and they claimed there was no problem. They didn't even answer my second and third contacts. I'm not impressed with their willingness to stand behind the product.

[C. Keiser]

Once I got Focus Enhancements to replace my FS-100. I have logged a great number of hours with it, incurring no problems. (touch wood)
In fact, last Friday night I was part of a three cam shoot with HVXs.
One cam had 4x8Gb cards which I rotated with a P2 store. The other two cams were on FS-100s. Due to the length of the subject, we shot in DVCPro50 to benefit from the added time-capacity of the lower bit rate. Everything went off w/o a hitch.
....Except for the loss of syncronization of time code which had been synced with firewire 1h30min before the shoot commenced. Anyone?
-Christopher

[deadkrash]

Need help fast! Someone unplugged the FS 100 while it was mounted on my power book. Now the drive wont start up. I get the blue screen but then it does nothin. The fan just spins but the screen is blank. I've pulled the battery. That didn't help!!

[knoxyfilm]

sorry but we are all professionals or aspiring to be one. TO shoot on a HVX and capture via a firewire that has no lock is so ridiculous -- I know there are no locks for firewire but Focus Enhancement should of been able to come up with something better than a flimsy connection -- Yes, options are very LIMITED, but the fact of the matter is that the people at Focus Enhancement DON"T GIVE A SHIIT!! They should of put more thought into the unit and theat screwed up manual! This is a 1600dollar plus unit not some cheap hardware -- or is it(?)

They know that when options are slim and far apart they could get away with murder; But not for long.

I hope a rep from firestore is on this board so he or she could listen up and put out a pro unit. I'm not here to ingratiate. 1 star out of 5!!

Hmm. I was about to buy HVX200 with fs100 for new project starting shortly and hired a kit the other day to familiarise. My DOP, myself and every technician in the hire company were unable to get the thing working. I've come on line here to look for some reassurance but having read through all your comments this system just seems frighteningly complex and unstable and therefore unsuited to any kind of professional work. On the face of it, it really should be the way forward but as it stands, it sounds like a very short route to going bust!

[nsoltz]

As one who used a FS-100 for review purposes, I liked it so much I bought one. I really beg to differ with you. I find no propblems whatsoever in using it and I find it very suitable for professional work.

Ned Soltz


Hmm. I was about to buy HVX200 with fs100 for new project starting shortly and hired a kit the other day to familiarise. My DOP, myself and every technician in the hire company were unable to get the thing working. I've come on line here to look for some reassurance but having read through all your comments this system just seems frighteningly complex and unstable and therefore unsuited to any kind of professional work. On the face of it, it really should be the way forward but as it stands, it sounds like a very short route to going bust!

[Jarred Land]

Indeed Ned.. Firestore was one of those miracle turn-around products.. they perhaps let the product out a little to early, it had alot of out of the gate issues, but I am very impressed by the speed and accuracy that they squashed the bugs and updated (and continue to) the product. It seems like a viable option for the P2 worflow now.. where as before it was not the most recommended product.

[THoff]

knoxyfilm, I suspect that everyone's unfamiliarity with both the camera and the Firestore was the source of the problem. Most likely the camera was in one of the NATIVE recording modes, in which case the HVX doesn't send any data out to the DV port, so the FS-100 has nothing to record. That's not really a problem with the Firestore.

[DocuTone]

Hello!

I am a newly registered user to this forum and have been a lurker here for the past several months.

I have recently ordered three HVX200 cameras, six 8GB P2 cards, a P2 Store and a single FS-100 FireStore for documentary and independent production work.

I understand that there are some issues with the FS-100 by having read this and similar threads. I have a lot of experience using FS-4 FireStores and may be of some assistance to those experiencing dropout and scrambled file troubles.

I have been shooting docs with a Sony DSR-500WS DVCAM camera for several years now, both rolling tape internally and with an FS-4 FireStore recording in the QT format for use with Final Cut. At first, I was having random problems with scrambled video files. I found that if I completely reformat the FireStore drive in conjunction with the repair disk function after dumping the contents following every shoot that it completely alleviates the problem. Since I have begun this practice, I have had zero recording problems with the FireStore. I would imagine that the FS-100 would have similar options and would produce the same results. I use a short 4-to-6 pin firewire cable between the camera and FireStore, which is mounted on the rear of the camera and Anton Bauer battery pack.

I hope that this tidbit of advice is useful for other FireStore users. It has worked well for me.

Tony

[deepfreezevideo]

It is time for Focus Enhancements (or some other enterprising company) to step up and make the statement that tens of thousands of shooters are muttering under their breath, to wit:
Whoever it was that thought that a bastardized GameBoy connector was appropriate for a real world shooting environment should be hung Saddam style at dawn, with extreme taunting and video coverage on the web.
Put simply, the Firewire 4-pin connector is a homesick abortion crawling up the leg of every shooter on the planet and it needs to be fully discontinued as a method of connecting DV I/O devices.
If you've ever hung drywall, then you are familiar with moly bolts.
The spring loaded tangs pop out when you push the bolt through the wall and it never comes out.
If it were possible to invent a spring loaded slim profile Firewire plug that attached itself PERMANENTLY inside the jack with a rugged 6-pin adapter on the other end of a very short cable, perhaps it would be possible to use Firewire ports in the future.
But you know it, and I know it...camcorders need durable, rigid, angled heavy duty connectors with metal barrels and positive lock capability when it comes to data and video I/O, and the Firewire 4-pin idea is what comprises a very weak link to what is otherwise a very fine product, namely the Firestore DTE drive.
It's like having a 400 horsepower sports coupe with bicycle tires on the front end...the wheels continually come off this trolley to the point where it hampers the ability of the DP to handle the camera in a real world environment.
I am not savvy with engineering but I find myself wondering why mini-XLR's cannot be used for carrying one end of the data stream with a 6-pin Firewire connector on the other end.
Perhaps they can do the job, perhaps not, but XLR connectors are a push in the right direction.
It's time that videographers continually register their displeasure with the Firewire 4-pin solution until the industry starts listening.
Firewire 4-pin is simply unacceptable all the way around...period, end of story.
I sure do hope someone in the industry is listening.

[Jarred Land]

Put simply, the Firewire 4-pin connector is a homesick abortion crawling up the leg of every shooter on the planet and it needs to be fully discontinued as a method of connecting DV I/O devices..

this is a disturbing analogy and should be moderated.. but its so friggin true im gonna let it stand on because there is a small gleamer of hope that some employee at the mini-firewire factory reads it at work, gets so disgusted that they throw up all over the robot controls and it melts down the factory so we never see mini firewire again.

[deepfreezevideo]

I am very sorry for using such disgusting verbal imagery, but it's pretty pathetic when you can almost dislocate a shoulder pulling a Molex power connector off a hard drive attached with four sheet metal screws inside a computer, the case of which never moves, but there isn't enough baling wire on the face of the earth to keep your DV port from losing its connection to the hard drive on top of a MOVING camera!

I've recently purchased a 35 dollar 12 inch cable with an ANGLED 4-pin plug to make the six inch run to the six hundred dollar hard disk atop my camera, and the plug STILL sticks out and gets in the way when I fumble for the zoom or focus ring.
I've employed generous amounts of zip ties, velcro and gaffer's tape to wind up the excess cable and route it around the camera and secure the plug, and the connection STILL gets hosed.
Add to this the fact that I get to marvel at the way this entire business makes my two thousand dollar rig look like something an Afghani junkyard owner cobbled together out of used Scud missile parts.
It's a thirty-five dollar fix for a ten cent connector designed by a twenty-five watt bulb working for a two bit design firm in a third rate town in North Texas.
It's known as the Firewire Trade Association and it's the place where the suits and engineers sit around and congratulate each other on how great the Firewire spec is and how it moves data around at blazing speeds, and I bet not a single jamoke in the joint has ever talked to a videographer about their view on Firewire ports.
I'm hoping one of them hires a Firestore user to shoot their daughter's wedding and the footage gets hosed because of a connection issue.

Okay, I feel better now...off to hide behind my egg proof barrier and pray I dont get booted.

[deepfreezevideo]

I still have to catch my breath on this one!
I actually received an amazingly sympathetic reply to one of my poison pen letters from no less than the 1394 Trade Association.
If the Executive Director gives me permission to reprint the letter I'd like for the group to hear what he has to say. I think after you read it you will see the importance in his response.

[DCSensui]

How about this: Surround the 4-pin connector with something like a BNC bayonet. Line it up, push it in. 1/4 twist and it's locked.

[deepfreezevideo]

That's actually a fairly brilliant idea if you can find the space on your camera to mount the bayonet well and secure it. The funny thing is, the 6-pin jack uses a set of tension tabs that act like a half-baked version of that concept. The rather well made 6 pin jacks on a Firestore will hold the plug with enough positive detent that the plug will not separate unless you apply enough force to jostle the unit completely out of a hot shoe.

But I'm burying the lead here. I got permission to reprint James Snider's email.
Snider is the Executive Director of the 1394 Trade Association, which writes the standards for Firewire. He is very passionate about Firewire as you might guess. His distaste for the 4-pin connector possibly surpasses mine, despite his lack of scary and disgusting metaphors...something which, in retrospect I am not too proud of.

Here's the letter:
> Jeffery,
>
> Thank you for your email. I will forward this to the Chairman of the Cable and Connector Working Group. I share your sentiments concerning the 4-pin connector. It has been a passion of mine and a
number of people in the 1394TA to see the 4-pin eradicated.
Unfortunately, the 4 pin was a gift to the world from Sony. The very first end product to be introduced with 1394 was a high end digital camcorder from Sony. They chose to NOT use the 6-pin connector for
two reasons:
1) It was too large for the small camcorders they intended to introduce in the future
2) They wanted to remove power from the cable because they were concerned that a customer might try to power a device over the cable off the camcorder battery and run the battery down unexpectedly.

The missing "two pins" on the 4 pin vs the 6 pin are "power and ground".

Sony did a great job of getting the digital camcorder world to adopt 1394, but unfortunately, everyone followed Sony by adding the 4 pin connector.

The 4 pin was totally designed by Sony without input from cable/ connector OEMs who could have designed out some of the worst aspects of the 4 pin.
Sony further spread the 4 pin by using it in their notebook computers (for the same battery power and space reasons). Now 95% of all notesbooks with 1394 have the 4 pin. I've had some lengthy meetings with a number of notebook makers, trying to discourage them from using the 4 pin, but in the end, they are adding 1394 because Sony has it so they are copying Sony's 4 pin. They even admit that the 6 pin is better, but they have some fear of using the 6 pin because it might confuse the customer who is expecting to see a 4 pin on the notebook.

I became so frustrated trying to use the 4 pin on my notebook in dimly lit hotel rooms with small desks that I banned them from use by any TA employee. The 1394TA will not buy a notebook with a 4 pin
(which is one of several reasons why we moved to Apple computers...they NEVER use the 4 pin).

I could go on for another page or two, but in the end, we write standards but can not mandate what people use. The TA is trying but the market clout of the Sonys, Microsofts, and Dells of the world is far more influential.

Get a few of your comrades together and send a series of strongly worded emails to Sony, Panasonic, Canon, and all the other high end camcorder OEMs to tell them you want a better 1394 connector. You might tone down the potentially offensive metaphors. The Japanese are a bit more proper than we Texans are.

Thanks for writing to me,

James Snider
Executive Director
1394 Trade Association
Southlake, Texas


I wrote back to James, apologizing profusely for the tone of my letter, which somewhat matched the first post I made here in this forum, and thanked him.

Here's his response:

Jeffery,

I spent three years as a carpenter's helper and a year and a half as
a telemarketer. I've heard everything and been called everything
imaginable. Your email was at least interesting in its creative
imagery.

You can forward my email. I read it over again and said nothing in
it that I have not already said numerous times in public forums. I
could literally write a 20 page email on the benefits of the 6 pin
over the 4 pin. I was going to email you one of the presentations I
have done on the topic, but it was full of images and too big to get
through my email system even in PDF.

For better or worse, I am passionate about FireWire and almost as
passionate about killing the 4-pin. Your email just happened to come
to the right guy. That is one of the rules of telemarketing: "This
is a numbers game. The more phone calls you make, the better your
chances are of making a sale. Make that next phone call."

In your case, send that next email and this time, send it to someone
who can make the change happen. Send the email to anyone and
everyone you can find at all the camcorder makers and all the
notebook and desktop computer makers. Tell them that you want the 6
pin connector and NOT the 4 pin. The sort of professional cameras
you use have enough room for the 6 pin. My Dell x200 notebook is
about as thin as they come and it has a 6 pin port on it. You should
stress to everyone that you want 1394 on your products. There is a
trend away from 1394 towards USB 2.0. I have some experience in this
area. If you want to see your world get even worse, try downloading
video over your USB port.

The low-end camcorders you mention do not even factor into this
discussion. People who buy $200 camcorders are not quality
conscious. They will burn a standard definition video onto a DVD in
their camcorder and be totally delighted. When they watch it on
their 20 inch SD set, the image is "good enough". 1394 has always
been about giving the highest quality and best user experience at a
reasonable price. We have stiff competition from "good enough".
Here is an easy test to run if you are interest. Get an external HDD
with both FireWire and USB 2.0. Copy a 1 Gig folder from your
computer to the HDD over USB 2.0 and then do it again over FireWire
and see which one is faster. FireWire is consistently faster because
it was built with quality and user experience in mind. USB was good
enough. Their 480 Megabits has a lot of overhead included. FireWire
gives you 400 usable megabits. USB 2.0 gives you 300 usable megabits
and all the rest is overhead. But, then I digress...I told you I am
passionate about FireWire.

Why not just disable the power pins on the 6 pin port? That is what
Maxtor did on their first external HDDs with FireWire. In Maxtor's
case, their HDDs required too much power to be powered over the cable
(HDDs require less power now). Therefore, they did not want to add
the few cents of extra expense adding power to the 6 pin port on
their HDDs. In Sony's case, I think it was about space. They wanted
a smaller connector that looked like it belonged on a camcorder.
Sony would probably also tell you that it is about consumer
confusion. Having a 6 pin that does not provide power will make
their customers think the product is broken. As you point out, they
selected a connector which wears out quickly and works poorly even
when new, so they essentially give you a "broken" connector anyway.
When it comes to user confusion, if they really cared, they would
drop the i.LINK name and use FireWire which is much more well known
in the USA. We have done market research and shown this to be true.
I could give you another lengthy rant about the i.LINK name, but I
will spare you.

I will show you two slides from my slide deck on the 4-pin vs the 6-
pin. This will make you really scratch your head and think twice
before buying another Sony product. In 2002 or maybe 2003, Sony
wanted to use the 1394 cable to connect an external DVD to their
notebook computers. They also wanted to power the external DVD from
the notebook instead of requiring an external power supply. That is
a great idea. Dell had the same thought. The first JPEG I have
attached "4Pin Dell" is the Dell answer. Put a 6 pin port on a very
thin notebook and put a 6 pin cable coming out of the external DVD.
Nice and easy, works well, permits the user to watch a movie on the
notebook on a long flight with the notebook attached to the power
port on the jet.

The second JPEG "4+2 Pin Sony" shows you the Sony solution. Add a
separate plug for power right next to the 4-pin plug. !?!?!?! I
asked the VP of one of Sony's research labs why they just did not use
the 6-pin. His response was that this notebook was designed in Japan
for sale in Japan. In Japan, the 6 pin is almost non-existent. He
did not think that the Sony designers were even aware that there is a
6-pin 1394 cable/connector.

http://deepfreezevideo.com/images/6PINDell.jpg
http://deepfreezevideo.com/images/42PinSony.jpg

If any of these industry groups you mention have large meetings where
I might be able to come and speak, I might be able to work it into my
schedule given some advance warning. That is, if you think it would
be of any benefit.

Now, go out and fight the good fight.

James Snider
Executive Director
1394 Trade Association