View Full Version : 720p 25 DVCPro HD in FCP???
Jonathan Pearson
05-04-2006, 01:10 PM
Hey Guys & Gals,
Does anyone know of a way to work with 720p 25 DVCPro HD footage in FCP?
I'm doing my head in trying to solve this one.
I'm shooting with the AG-HVX200 and need to shoot progressive for all kinds of reasons and need the footage native in FCP. Tall order, I know.
Is it a case of wait for version 6 and hope for the best???
Not really an option as the shoots coming up in a few weeks. I've heard the Edius supports it but you can't output it in it's native format? Can anyone confirm?
Cheers and fingures crossed!
Jonathan
Barry_Green
05-04-2006, 01:28 PM
FCP doesn't support 720/25 yet, but it does support 1080/25 (I believe). So if you need progressive and you need to use FCP, 1080 would probably be the better choice.
Raylight on the PC supports 720/25, so if you want to edit on the PC platform you can use Raylight to use the 720/25 including variable frame rates.
www.dvfilm.com/raylight
nsoltz
05-04-2006, 02:33 PM
Correct, Barry, to the best of my knowledge. There is no 720/25 support yet in FCP but there is 1080i/25
Ned Soltz
Jonathan Pearson
05-04-2006, 04:36 PM
Cheers guys.
FCP only supports 1080i 50 at the moment so that's not an option but Raylight sounds cool. Either that or I'll shoot 720p 24 and have it converted for broadcast here in the UK after...
Sucks that there's no support though - fingures crossed for V.6
Rosferatu
05-06-2006, 09:16 AM
Hi all,
This is a very timely thread as we're about to shoot a couple of commercials here for PAL broadcast. I must admit I'm rather confused.
I am not overly worried about shooting progressive although that would be best. I guess I could import the interlaced footage into Magic Bullet 2 and convert to progressive there. We would want to have it progressive as its a blue screen shoot and the background will be rendered out as progressive frames.
We do have a Blackmagic Decklink HD 4:2:2 card on our Power Mac. Perhaps this has the relevant codecs (I am not going to be in the office to check for a few days so my perhaps I'm wrong there.)
So all in all, I'm confused about the best way to go about it. 1080i 50 is currently the best way to shoot. And then de-interlace in MB?
Thanks for bearing with this rather long winded and confused post.
Hope you're having a great weekend,
-Ross:crybaby:
HVXguy
05-06-2006, 09:42 AM
I have been able to import 1080 50i shot at 25p into After Effects. We are only converting single clips and that works fine. I can conform the 25p clip to 23.976. I have tried Cinema Tools and Vegas as well but using After Effects gave the best result. The original clip was produced with the Avid DVCPRO HD codec.
Jonathan Pearson
05-06-2006, 10:20 AM
Rosferatu,
If you're not too bothered about shooting progressive then shooting 1080i 50, import to FCP and then a de-interlace should do the trick...
FCP supports 1080i 50 but not not 1080p or 720p at 25 yet.
Anders Holck
05-06-2006, 11:29 AM
576p25, 576i50 in DV, DVCPRO, DVCPRO 50
and
1080p25, 1080i50 in DVCPRO HD
is supported in FCP 5.0.4.
Only thing NOT supported is 720p.
Jonathan Pearson
05-06-2006, 04:57 PM
1080p 25 isn't supported in version 5.4 - only 1080i 50
I think 1080p 25 and 720p 25 are both going to be in version 6. Or should I say I hope they'll be in version 6!
JohanDay
05-07-2006, 02:07 PM
You can import/edit 1080p 25 in FCP. Set sequence preset to 1080i50 and then put to Sequence/Field Dominance/none and you can edit 1080p 25
Anders Holck
05-07-2006, 02:12 PM
1080p uses the 1080i codec, so naturally it's already supported.
Jonathan Pearson
05-07-2006, 03:00 PM
Hey Johan,
Didn't realise you could do that - makes complete sense.
Which capture preset would you use? 1080i 50? Or does this only work if you ingest the footage from the P2 card rather than digitize?
Cheers dude - this is super helpful
Their is only a 1080i capture preset, so yes choose that and then check field dominance to none.
It's kinda like the work flow with the XL2 25p footage.
-matt
Jonathan Pearson
05-07-2006, 07:29 PM
Nice one.
Cheers guys.
someday
06-08-2006, 07:51 PM
What happens if i use the 720p30 and in the settings i simply change the fps to 25?
If you were to do that the world might end !
Dan Montgomery
06-09-2006, 08:45 AM
Does anyone know of a way to work with 720p 25 DVCPro HD footage in FCP?
HDLog www.imagineproducts.com (http://www.imagineproducts.com) works with 720p/ 25 & 50 HD, then export to FCP XML (creates QT clips ready to edit).
The demo is available to try, but for this feature you also need the PAL codec we developed: New codec:
http://www.imagineproducts.com/Files/Macintosh/720p50.dmg (http://www.imagineproducts.com/Files/Macintosh/720p50.dmg)
People will need to download the demo again if they were using the old codec or old method.
This uses the same identifier number as the 720p60 codec so that FCP and QT Player will correctly recognize the aspect ratio and frame size. It also modifies frames more intelligently, using information from the SMPTE doc I found. The only caveat is that the DVCPROHDVideoOutputCodec.component, found in /Library/QuickTime, will override my codec when yuv operations are requested. So they will have to move that component out of that folder for things to work right.
Hope this helps.
Y'all do know you can tweek the settings of your FCP Seqeunce to get 720p25, right? It's not "native", but you can still do it with some tweeking.
Please enlighten me as to how it's done ?
-cheers
-matt
Here's what I posted on DVXuser.com, as I have just verified this is true with the Apple Product Manager for FCP (someone asked about doing 720p25 although there's no Easy Setup for it):
"Create a new Sequence, open it in the Timeline. Go to Sequence > Sequence Settings. Change your Edit Time Base to 25 (all else set to 720p). When you export via QT Conversion, you can again set the fps to be 25.
It's not what is called "Native", as you won't have any RT at all, but it can be done. You'll have to render a lot, but, it "can" be done.
What the preset Sequence settings in the Easy Setup are, are templates that have been "profiled" for FCP's RT engine. You can get other set-ups, but they'll be custom and no RT is for sure, as they are not "profiled" for the RT engine, so to speak.
If you have a third party board that supports it you can get RT out of custom Sequence Setups.
Same applies for 1080p formats that are so-called "unsupported" in FCP."
FYI,
Ben
I still can't import any clips in 720p pal 25fps.
Has anybody managed this yet ?
electricpig
06-10-2006, 04:39 PM
Via HDLog, yes.
mark.burton
06-11-2006, 03:56 AM
I've also tested the HD Log and 720p25 passthrough codec demo with 720p25 and FCP 5.1.1 and it has worked very well. Nice job Imagine, thanks for working on this for the PAL users.
someday
06-11-2006, 06:39 AM
Here's what I posted on DVXuser.com, as I have just verified this is true with the Apple Product Manager for FCP (someone asked about doing 720p25 although there's no Easy Setup for it):
"Create a new Sequence, open it in the Timeline. Go to Sequence > Sequence Settings. Change your Edit Time Base to 25 (all else set to 720p). When you export via QT Conversion, you can again set the fps to be 25.
It's not what is called "Native", as you won't have any RT at all, but it can be done. You'll have to render a lot, but, it "can" be done.
What the preset Sequence settings in the Easy Setup are, are templates that have been "profiled" for FCP's RT engine. You can get other set-ups, but they'll be custom and no RT is for sure, as they are not "profiled" for the RT engine, so to speak.
If you have a third party board that supports it you can get RT out of custom Sequence Setups.
Same applies for 1080p formats that are so-called "unsupported" in FCP."
FYI,
Ben
So there will be no quality loss or image interpolations?
Hey Guys & Gals,
Does anyone know of a way to work with 720p 25 DVCPro HD footage in FCP?
I'm shooting with the AG-HVX200 and need to shoot progressive for all kinds of reasons and need the footage native in FCP. Tall order, I know.
No, there is no way to edit 720p 25 DVCPro HD footage in FCP native. You can't use the up- and undercrancking (no slow motion or speed up).
Via HDLog, yes.
Oh right I see :)
Still $300 just to import some files as that's all I need to do.
-Come on apple.
electricpig
06-11-2006, 08:41 AM
Well, I've shot at 720 25Pn @ 50 fps and edited that in FCP.
Via HDLog...
what version of HDLog.... do you have ?
-cheers
mark.burton
06-12-2006, 03:08 AM
You need the latest version 3.6 (build June 5 I think) and the 720p50 codec they provide.
barnholdt
06-13-2006, 04:05 PM
Hope Apple fix this so we can edit nativ 720p25
I'm sure they will but dam it when, what do we have to do to get an answer ?
fabiendostie
06-16-2006, 01:45 PM
I am now using a 720p25 sequence in FCP and all works just fine ??? i used the 1080i50 sequence preset then i set the frame to 1280x720 and then i put the sequence field dominance to none... and that did it for me
THE HONEST LIAR
09-05-2006, 05:04 AM
Hi fabiendostie
I had a go at your method and I got a broken up image.
So if you could do a post or email me a step by step of how you achived it.
I would be most grateful.
Kind regards
THE HONEST LIAR
Steve Shovlar
09-05-2006, 08:35 AM
http://www.aulich-adamski.de/wp-content/720p25_50_HVX200_en.pdf
Tells you all you need to know about using 720P25 and 50 in FCP.
Works a treat.
THE HONEST LIAR
09-06-2006, 03:55 AM
Thanks Steve.
Kind Regards
THE HONEST LIAR
THE HONEST LIAR
09-06-2006, 04:19 AM
Had a go... but no luck.
I'm not using P2 Cards I've chosen to go directly to internal HD.
What should I change in order for it to work. To capture 1080p/25 I use the 1080i/50 preset.
Anybody...
Kind Regards
THE HONEST LIAR
electricpig
09-06-2006, 05:24 AM
I did a job last week capturing to disk via a Powerbook and FCP 5.1.1
1080i50 preset but with field dominance set to none.
Worked perfectly for a 1-hour capture. Currently editing the same.
mike.c
mactrix
09-06-2006, 02:04 PM
No, there is no way to edit 720p 25 DVCPro HD footage in FCP native. You can't use the up- and undercrancking (no slow motion or speed up).
Wrong, it works:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=70146
electricpig
09-06-2006, 03:12 PM
Well, I can't do live capture with 720P or PN, but with P2 Log / HD Log and their QT 720P50 codec I've been running an over-cranked workflow for months.
Cinema tools becomes a friend when given 720P50 footage using batch-conversion to change framerates to 25.
I've used this succesfully with data from P2 cards, a P2 store and a Firestore.
Lets hope IBC will shed some light on a pal 720 codec from apple that were all waiting for :O)
THE HONEST LIAR
09-07-2006, 03:34 PM
Thanks Electricpig I'll give that a go.
And see what happens.
Kind regards
THE HONEST LIAR
No, there is no way to edit 720p 25 DVCPro HD footage in FCP native. You can't use the up- and undercrancking (no slow motion or speed up).
Wrong, it works:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=70146
No it is not. That is not native FCP only, it is nice to try but your answer on my prediction is false.
mark.burton
09-10-2006, 02:47 AM
FCP v5.1.2 will have 720p25 P2 support along with other P2 workflow improvements. Slated for 30 days from now via free software update. More here (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=70597)
That is great news! Apple will -next month- bring us this upgrade so you can use the P2 concept in the HD productions in Europe.
Working in a professional editing setting within the 50 Hz territory. Editing 720p/25 with FinalCut Pro version 5.1.2. Thanks Apple! We appealed for that!
mactrix
09-10-2006, 07:53 AM
No it is not. That is not native FCP only,
Of course it is native. What else?
The website aulich-adamski.de you are pointing at shows a ' workaround ' with non-Apple drivers for 25p.
Quote from that website:
" In addition to that there is a special QuickTime component that needs to be installed manually, as the original 720p60 codec from Apple produces image errors. These are gone when the pass-through codec is installed. You can find it at: imagineproducts.com/Files/Macintosh/720p50.dmg
After installation you have to do some manual tweaking to get things going..."
Thats all I need to point at, it is not native FCP only. But our problem is solved now Apple self brings out an update for FCP. :thumbsup:
Your article describes the 50P support (up and undercrancing) as follow:
" For 720p50 support you need a AJ-HD1400 recorder that will be introduced soon and the Miranda MDC-922 converter for the Panasonic Varicam. "
mactrix
09-10-2006, 04:00 PM
The website you are pointing at shows a ' workaround ' with non-Apple drivers for 25p.
It's not a driver, it's a modified Apple codec component. Of course it's a workaround. But it's a workaround to implement native DVCPRO HD 720p importing, editing and playout.
Thats all I need to point at, it is not native FCP only.
Fuddy-duddy ... it's native because it's not recompressed or transcoded. It's native because every pixel is the same like on the P2. That's the meaning of native ...
But our problem is solved now Apple self brings out an update for FCP.
720p50 is still not supported but maybe there is no need for using the pass-through codec from Imagine Products anymore ...
Your article describes the 50P support (up and undercrancing) as follow:
" For 720p50 support you need a AJ-HD1400 recorder that will be introduced soon and the Miranda MDC-922 converter for the Panasonic Varicam. "
You are mixing two different things. There are two articles. One for a P2 workflow:
http://www.aulich-adamski.de/en/perm/panasonic-ag-hvx200-720p2550-p2-workflow-mit-final-cut-pro
And one for support over HD-SDI using a Kona 3:
http://www.aulich-adamski.de/en/perm/720p50-capturing-editing-in-final-cut-pro
There are five articles.
The 50P article with the name: PDF documentation: 720p50 with Final Cut Pro 5
But please stop with postings that confuse us with solutions for 25P. There is no need for workarounds, Apple helps us out. There was no native FCP only solution to edit 25P until Apple brings out the new Final Cut Pro version 5.1.2.
I am happy with efforts to get things working -if the original producer is not bringing us the sweets-, but I would like things to work 'out of the box'.
Thanks.