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Fugitive
04-24-2006, 08:25 PM
Any news on the price, screen-shots, and specs etc of the Silicon Imaging Camera?

With all the craze over RED, all I can say is , at the moment, no matter what the specs say, for an Indie, its JUST NOT AFFORDABLE.

so, SI-1920 anyone?

onetrackmind
04-25-2006, 06:00 AM
hey, found this link over at dvinfo:http://cineform.blogspot.com/

some pics finally..

David Newman
04-25-2006, 09:12 AM
There were bunch of people taking photos and video of the new SI1920 camera in the Adobe booth, and watching real footage being editing in the AMD booth. I guess no of these visitors where DVXUser customers, as I was look forward to seeing the reports from the field.

Fugitive
04-25-2006, 09:34 AM
As I said, everybody at DVXUser just seems to be glued to Red.

@onetrackminded:The link doesnt seem to work.

Fugitive
04-25-2006, 10:38 AM
The price is 20K. Hmmmm....I can wait for Red all of a sudden...

http://www.digitalcamcordernews.com/posts/2006/04/198-new-camcorder-from-silicon-imaging

But then again, thats for "everything. I dont know how much the mobile camera unit itsself costs.

Fugitive
04-25-2006, 10:49 AM
Good for us they have created a "Virtual NAB" where you can see events at NAB unfold online (t=for this camera only0

http://www.siliconimaging.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=18

Ari Presler
04-26-2006, 01:38 AM
$12.5K for camera head package for capture, record and edit over gigabit ethernet. $20K get you the complete digital cinema portable package with remote head capability and 2 years of software upgrades!!

We are taking orders now for delivery in September....

joe 1008
04-28-2006, 04:57 PM
Ari, your answer was very short. I was looking at the Silicon Imagin homepage but could´t find any details about what you were writing. Could you please give more details? What exactly is the digital cinema portable package?

TiVo
04-28-2006, 08:15 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure why this camera is not getting nearly the press that Red has. Especially since this camera is much further along. I'd love to see a section in the forums here for this camera like red has.

Ari Presler
04-28-2006, 08:15 PM
Take a look at the Virtual NAB photos with the remote head pics (updated today). The remote head is part of the main camera body and is removable. It requires 12VDC (6W) and Intel GigE Core Duo 2.1GHz or better machine/notebook to use for capture and recording..

http://www.siliconimaging.com/phpBB/index.php

Staven
04-28-2006, 09:47 PM
Love the touch screen. That's very impressive.

Get direct to edit quicktime files for Final Cut and I'd be very interested in this camera.

microbob
04-29-2006, 07:10 AM
Yeah, I'm not sure why this camera is not getting nearly the press that Red has. Especially since this camera is much further along. I'd love to see a section in the forums here for this camera like red has.

No doubt. These guys even have footage!

David Newman
04-29-2006, 10:18 AM
Love the touch screen. That's very impressive.

Get direct to edit quicktime files for Final Cut and I'd be very interested in this camera.

Quicktime capture for direct FCP work is being developed right now for release in time for the camera's launch in Q3,06.

Ari Presler
04-29-2006, 08:43 PM
No doubt. These guys even have footage!


No doubt!

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/gallery_footage.html

Estasi Degli Angeli
04-30-2006, 12:57 AM
I'm very happy, finally new footage online!

Fugitive
04-30-2006, 03:54 AM
The night shots are fantastic. Looking forward to seeing more awesome footage.

Estasi Degli Angeli
04-30-2006, 04:34 AM
If only this camera was more small it was perfect...but this is a SERIOUS camera! A true revolution for filmakers!

Ari Presler
04-30-2006, 09:49 PM
Here is a clip from NAB Wed night CML shootout ...

http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/CML_01.wmv

http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/Thumbnails/CML.jpg

Ari Presler
05-03-2006, 06:19 PM
The QT is compressed with WinRaR and expands to 2GB (8-bit output only)!!!

Uncompressed Quicktime (http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/CML_Uncompressed.rar)(8-bit, 970MB)

For single frame 10-bit viewing, grab the individual frames either in RAW (DNG) or processed DPX (Cineon)

RAW File (http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/Stills/SI-1920.dng)(DNG)
Cineon File (http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/Stills/SI-1920.cin)(Adobe Camera Raw conversion)


These files are also posted in the usuall GALLERY location:

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/gallery_footage.html

Forrest Schultz
05-03-2006, 06:56 PM
My computer isnt fast enough to play the footage at full speed. but the resolution looks awesome. FOr those who can view it at full speed. Does it give a real cinematic look? i mean, does it seperate itself from the video-feel of the HVX.(i know people have their opinions, but for me, ive seen alot of HVX footage that looks really "video". and many notice also) i can tell the resolution is kick-ass of this cam. and im hoping its also film-like in all aspects. I think CMOS gives nice film like footage. but let me know.

Emanuel
05-03-2006, 07:17 PM
Ari your efforts regarding the footage available it is so much appreciated here and all over the forums, as well, for your excellent product. But please, we'd like to watch some good stuff well directed, with a more efficient focus puller and perhaps better cinematography.

I dislike to say this but that's because I believe in the potential of your product -- as you all know, that I'm trying to push for your baby.

And if possible, as lighter as possible. The plastic idea (of good quality, of course!) to the lateral panels (without to touch in the structure) it will be a good idea to run & gun work. I've been to give your example to RED team, so that's my turn to ask here the RED pattern for your valuable work.

Ari Presler
05-03-2006, 07:25 PM
We hear the need for lighter and smaller. That is the direction we will go!

What other requirements are there to make this a useful production tool for the market? Which are nice to have and which are must have?

Emanuel
05-03-2006, 07:40 PM
We hear the need for lighter and smaller. That is the direction we will go!I'm glad, very glad. :cheesy: Even today, I was talking with my partners in order to decide if we are going with another RED or with you@next_september as lighter as possible. Smaller? Better yet!!


What other requirements are there to make this a useful production tool for the market?One sole sentence: Not forget the best (synchro) sound on camera as far as it gets.

Ari Presler
05-03-2006, 07:42 PM
Go Blue!

Emanuel
05-03-2006, 07:50 PM
Go Blue!:laugh:

No...go RED and go Silicon Imaging!

But seriously speaking, are you thinking in a smaller and lighter cam for sure? At September?

I can confess when I read 13lbs (actually at same day of your press-release), I made myself the exercise to take the weight over my shoulders. Heavy...

Emanuel
05-03-2006, 07:57 PM
PS

I'm doing three different jobs into the filmmaking business, consulting and teaching.

And to digital cinema education/training purposes, myself and my team we are thinking to have more than a choice. And yours it is very attractive as lighter/smaller as possible -- as I already said!

Fugitive
05-04-2006, 03:24 AM
Having some sort of film-look presets would be really really nice. Most Indie film-makers want their digital-film to look less video-ish. Any efforts towards that end would be highly appreciated by all.

Ari Presler
05-04-2006, 07:15 PM
Having some sort of film-look presets would be really really nice. Most Indie film-makers want their digital-film to look less video-ish. Any efforts towards that end would be highly appreciated by all.

Can you give us more ideas of what you would like to see in camera versus what is applied in post? And what level of controls should be implemented?


Note: The fact that we preserve 10-f stops of dynamic range and have a gamma/log style curve applied we already have the ability to get closest to a film look in our price range. Remember, we record the raw data and any color look can be applied in post. In any event, we want your input and want to deliver the camera and features the market demands. You may not get all the features in the first release but software enhancements will be on-going.

WYSINAYWG...What you see (now) is not all you will get :).

Forrest Schultz
05-04-2006, 08:52 PM
Ari, I think the camera is great. As most have asked, a viewfinder would be very very likeable. It would just show picture, and not controls, as was discussed already, i think.

And the body design is very good. very functional. If there was a way to make it more, say, pretty, something that would reflect a real film cinema camera counterpart, that feature would be very very attracitve. The Rai and Drake camera did a really cool body design For their 2/3" cmos camera project. looks very nice, rugged, yet smooth. and is basically like yours functionally:
http://www.drachenfeder.com/aktuelles/drake_hd_en.htm#kamera

i see the handle implemented on yours. but i wonder what it would look like without a handle on top, and instead, but a shoulder mount to go with the baseplate. that would be very nice.

Emanuel
05-04-2006, 09:53 PM
You may not get all the features in the first release but software enhancements will be on-going.Good idea...


WYSINAYWG...What you see (now) is not all you will get :).We hope so, specially regarding a noiseless care to improve, as well, the hardware and a form factor/design more attractive to rent -- «as far as it gets».

Fugitive
05-05-2006, 01:38 PM
I was wondering why time-lapse isn't supported. Not that I need it (not yet anyway) but since even the lower end sony trv17 supports it, it must be cheap to implement. Also, I am sure it must be handy for those National Geagraphic type documentary makers. Imagine recording a flower bloom, in full RAW HD resolution. sweet!

Forrest Schultz
05-05-2006, 06:32 PM
Fugitive. I think they already support timelaspe

"
Flexible Frame-Rates and Resolutions
Special Effects and off-speed shooting modes include a variety of overcranking and undercranking modes. Slow-Motion shots can be captured at speeds up to 72fps in 720P mode, 3-times 24P film rate. Long-duration events are captured using the Time-Lapse recording feature or using the long exposure mode, which accumulates light over several frame times to exaggerate motion. "

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/key_features.html

Fugitive
05-06-2006, 08:23 AM
whoops. Dunno how I missed that. Thanks!

Ari Presler
05-06-2006, 12:34 PM
Here is the current interface for 1080P, 720P and Time Lapse rate control. We are open to requests and suggestions...


http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/TimeLapseScreen.jpg

Emanuel
05-06-2006, 12:52 PM
Nice Ari!

10s
05-06-2006, 11:46 PM
Ari, the camera needs the 2.39:1 framing box to show beyond the edge using a 25 to 50% darkening effect. This is for anticipating subject moves by letting the camera op see beyond the frame, very helpful. Also, the audio meters need a few dB & peak markings, otherwise what's the point?

Ari Presler
05-07-2006, 12:13 AM
This is excellent input! What granularity do you suggest on the dB indicators?

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/guides.jpg

Framing box shading will also be added to the feature request list!

10s
05-07-2006, 01:06 AM
The audio meter could have, 0 at the top, and working it's way down, the all important -3, and then -5, -9,-12, etc... possibly becoming larger increments as it gets quieter. Also, dynamic and static peak level indicators are valuable. Those are the little marks that stay momentarily to indicate where the peaks are hitting. A red or blue peak indicator light would be a nice asset for this. All the data should be available for monitors other than the camera LCD. A feed to the director monitor should supply all this info so the the script sup & others can work the numbers and keep on top of all the tricky little stuff.

For audio meters I'd suggest you look around at audio software & editing software & see what would compliment these systems. The Total Production System should be as seamless as possible, from camera to DVD/filmout.

I would also consider an option for having 4 more crosshairs (maybe light blue) along with the white center crosshair (total 5), optional via the menu: none, 1 or all 5. I would place these 4 crosshairs at the TIC TAC TOE, "rule of 3rd " intersection for helping assist composition. They would need to be set for each of the aspect ratios and could be turned off/on.

This helps when operators get tired and forgetful, hey!....just keep the talent's eyes on the top 3d line!

Ari Presler
05-08-2006, 08:42 PM
The suggestion for Audio metering was very timely and I am sure everyone will be pleased with our implementation.

As fas as TIC TAC TOE, "rule of 3rd " display mode. I question how many indies would actually use this mode. Any other opinions?

BTW, This is a MUST SEE....

SI-1920HDVR D-Cinema Camera with Cineform RAW Codec - Studio Daily Feature Video

Studio Daily has produced a comprehensive look at the Silicon Imaging SI-1920 D-Cinema Camera and Cineform RAW Workflow demonstration and IN OPERATION at NAB2006!!!

http://www.studiodaily.com/images/studiodaily/header_logo.gif

Some Like It Raw
May 8, 2006 Source: Studio Daily

It's not enough to develop a camera anymore, Silicon Imaging is defining a workflow, leveraging compression and metadata to maintain color space.
Click below to watch the video or download it to your iPod.

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/news/headlines/6536.html


(http://www.studiodaily.com/main/news...ines/6536.html)

Emanuel
05-08-2006, 09:00 PM
Congrats Ari!

mcgeedigital
05-08-2006, 09:00 PM
Pretty Cool!

Looking forward to news of FCPro support.

Forrest Schultz
05-08-2006, 10:15 PM
Ari! dont put in the tic tac toe rule of thirds grid!!! I think it would be a waste. These arent put on 35mm video assist displays and such. I guess you can add it as a selectable (on/off) deal. But i think it makes it less professional. A real DP should know how they want to compose the shot without constantly making sure they are using the grid.

I for one as an amueter filmaker use the rule of thirds but am not bound to it in any way. Thanks for accepting all the input

dan
05-09-2006, 12:41 AM
A real DP should know how they want to compose the shot without constantly making sure they are using the grid.
....Words of wisdom....
BRAVO Forest!:thumbsup:

Fugitive
05-09-2006, 01:48 PM
True, but it wouldnt hurt as an on/off feature eiether. Film-purists would say its cheating, but once upon a time using a light-meter may also have been called cheating too...

willshipp
05-09-2006, 02:23 PM
the camera looks great for set up shots but you still look very limited on doing any kind of hand held. plus the cost of all the things you need, lens, anton bauer batts, charger, matte box, hd monitor, filters, sachtler tripod, micro force zoom control, hard drives,etc.your well over $ 35,000 before you shoot any footage.

nalu
05-09-2006, 09:40 PM
I would love to see a smaller and lighter form factor. I'm looking for a camera that can be used in a mobile shoot and run environment. Something with a viewfinder, that is sturdy and reliable.

Workflow with FCP sounds like it is coming which is great.

Cheaper (complete package), lighter, smaller and all it would need is 1080p!!!

thanks

Jason Rodriguez
05-10-2006, 12:10 AM
Just curious, how small and light? With the PC inside the camera, we obviously can't get DV-camera size. For weight we're targeting 10lbs. We were thinking that's pretty "light" and-in line with most ENG/film cameras. You can put our camera on your shoulder very easily (we are providing a shoulder rest accessory and hand-grips . . . it wasn't on the camera since we had it on a tripod at the show). Also RED for instance, is targeting 7lbs., and once you add a Cooke S4 prime like you saw at the show, you're easily over 10lbs., and no way to get it on your shoulder with the weight over your shoulder (the shot-gun apperatus they showed still puts the weight out over your arms rather than allowing your body to carry the weight, and the flip-out LCD is not condusive to shoulder-mounting . . . same problem with HVX200, etc.). I'm sure there are ways around this with the RED, but the point is that we're going to be in-line weight-wise with other cameras on the market.

BTW, if you go to our website, you'll see that the night-shots on the Las Vegas strip are all hand-held . . . so you can definitely do hand-held shots quite easily.

When it comes to accessories, remember, you can leverage many off-the-shelf PC parts, i.e., you don't need a $5K "HD monitor", you can use anything with a DVI input.

I'm sorry about the price of the batteries, but any reliable field-tested battery format is going to cost you some money . . . I'm not sure I would trust other non-professional battery systems (like generic laptop batteries) outside of Anton Bauer, IDX Tek, etc. Also laptop batteries can't charge near as fast, don't last as long (their cells are not made to withstand the extreme-stresses of high current-draw for long periods of time), and tend to be proprietary format (who should we use, Apple-style, Dell, HP, etc.??). Also I don't believe they like being dropped, can't operate as well in extreme temperatures (put them in the cold and watch your run-times completely tank), need special circuitry in the power supply to keep them from exploding or discharching too quickly, and again, just aren't as reliable. We internally debated using laptop-style batteries, but after evaluating the requirements of professional use, saw that they simply weren't going to meet the need. Remember that the camera is using up around 60-65W of power at 14.4V, so you can't use small cheap 7.2V batteries like the HVX200, etc. either. So it's just something that's a part of professional camera use. If you get our small camera head only-camera, then that can use any off-the-shelf battery parts, even a firewire power cable if your laptop has a 6-pin firewire cable (and 12V on the firewire cable).

BTW, just for reference, we were able to shoot all day (as long as we wanted) with three 140W/hr batteries and a charger, which will run you around $2.5K for a kit from Anton Bauer. The batteries charge very quickly (around 2.5 hours), so by the time you're done with one battery, you have another fresh one to use. Also because it's a standard A/B battery system (or again, substitute your favorite), you can rent batteries from practically any rental shop that has video cameras, or any in-town videographer who has an ENG-style camera. So these batteries are very easy to come by even if you don't want to purchase your own. And of course you can always plug the camera into A/C power.

When it comes to tripods, matte-box, etc., again, you're getting what you pay for. Even if you purchase any other camera on the market, these are still items who's price-points haven't changed. And for us to make all our own accessories would be very inefficient, since we don't have the volumes of somebody like Chroziel, Arri, Sachtler, Miller, etc., so our prices would either have to be higher than you'd probably like, or the quality/features wouldn't be there.

Hope this all makes sense.

Thanks,

Jason

10s
05-10-2006, 03:50 AM
I don't know what size screen you'll have on the camera but these little cheap 3.5 LCDs are toys that are a pain to use. Put a 7" monitor on it using a flex arm. It's an insult to buy an expensive camera to only to have to turn around and buy another monitor to go on top because the one that came with the camera stinks. Some back of the seat LCD monitors appear better than some camera monitors.

Daniel Leite
05-10-2006, 07:09 AM
Just some thoughts:

- for form factor and design look at arri's 416 and aton's they know what they do.

- Another set-up could be a detachable pc body that would go as backpack with the camera head, lenses and lcd separated for hand-held, shoulder or a light weight stabilyzer, like the Flyer or even the Merlyn.

- Interchangeble lens mounts would be cool also (f mount, pl mount and others)


DL

Jason Rodriguez
05-10-2006, 09:34 AM
Hi Daniel,

We have interchangeable lens mounts (F, PL, B4, and C), so you can put really any lens you can get your hands around on this camera.

Also you can put together any PC really and record . . . we're even thinking you may be able to-do it with a Mac Mini and Bootcamp (haven't benchmarked the Mac Mini, so that's the only hold-up that I can see off-hand). That's the point of the $12.5K package-slap your own setup onto the camera head or wherever you want and use it any way you like.

Also the on-camera touchscreen/LCD is a high-resolution 7" running at 1280x720 . . . I would shudder at the thought of a small 3.5" LCD!

hemophilia
05-10-2006, 11:08 AM
What's the deal with audio? I see you have audio metering in your on-screen display, so presumably the software is in fact recording sync audio with the images? Obviously for PC-based systems there are a billion options as far as existing audio interfaces go. How does your set-up work? Are there audio inputs on your hardware, or are you using some 3rd party device?

Jason Rodriguez
05-10-2006, 12:17 PM
Right now the audio is input via the Line-in or Mic-in ports.

We can use any Windows WAV compatible device. We're recording 2-channels of 48-bit/16khz directly into the AVI file, and ASIO support is planned for the future so you can plug-in those nice USB/Firewire audio devices for better sound quality.

Of course dual-system sound is still probably the best bet for the highest quality sound recording (with the highest quality mic preamps), but the in-camera options are very nice as well, especially when compared to other broadcast cameras on the market.

10s
05-10-2006, 10:39 PM
Jason you must have transposed the 48 & 16, it should read 48kHz freq sampling with 16 bit depth. I'd recommend you bump everthing up to 24 bit 96 kHz because you would now be able to capture at the top range of actually discernable audio. The double system would now be an option. A built-in limiter could do much of the work of a mixer riding gain in many situations.

Standard def DVD specs are already 96 kHz and the new HD DVD specs are hitting 192 kHz. 192 is good for anti-aliasing filters and math crunching but far beyond Human perception, so 96 works out best for quality & conserving memory.

Putting good preamps in would then put the camera into a new league of its own touched by none other. Most camera video foks think 16 bit 48kHz is good enough....sorry, it's very nice but only 1/2 way there, 24 bit 96kz is the human perceptual edge.

Jason Rodriguez
05-11-2006, 10:26 AM
The problem with 24/96 is that it's not supported in the VFW AVI wrapper. We would break compatibility with video for windows, so then a generic VFW application would never be able to open the files properly with audio.

We've been thinking about doing 24/96 to a separate WAV file on disk, and I think that's most likely what would have to happen, since again, two channel 24/96 would not work with VFW compatible AVI's. Maybe with Quicktime things change (I would assume they would) . . . but I don't know enough about that.

BTW, please keep in mind, that if your pre-amps aren't capable of over 100db of dynamic range (A-weighted), then 24/96 is complete overkill . . . you're simply not digitizing anything but noise. It would be like having a 14-bit A/D on a imager with a max S/N of less than 50db, which again, would be a complete waste of digital bandwidth. Many of these lower-end solid-state 24/96 sound-cards and devices (such as the generic on-board PC audio systems, etc.) only have the pre-amp dynamic range to fill up 16-bits/48Khz, so if you record in that format, you aren't loosing anything, it's only the numbers don't seems as "pretty" in marketing terms.

To really take advantage of 24/96, you'll want dynamic range in the 105-109db range, and that requires a nice set of mic preamps and A/D converters. That typically requires one of those external professional firewire/USB devices, not generic PC on-board audio. When we move to supporting those devices (ASIO support), then we will again, most likely record a separate 24/96 WAV file, since we can't break compatibility with the VFW functionality of the AVI files we're recording.

10s
05-11-2006, 04:03 PM
Well, it sounds like you can keep the 24/96kHz option in mind for future upgrades. I suggest putting in excellent preamps into the camera sometime in the future and the type I'm suggesting are not the cheap stuff, I'm not even thinking about those cheap "Sand Blaster" cards. I'm suggesting good preamps. They are not that big either, I'll bet you can mfg. and find a way to put them into the camera without turning the camera into a boat anchor. This audio option would be a great competitive advantage.

thanks

Ari Presler
05-11-2006, 08:39 PM
http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/Head_on_wire.jpg

Here is the rig the "Spoon" team built with the remote camera head!

"Here is the first rugged set ready head on wire si1920. It's a nice size and weight. We will be recording and controling on wire so the operator only shoots for composition the rest is controlled at the wafian....Both heads are making excellent images. Everyone here is crowded around the monitors in disbelief. Very very excited. We shoot tommorow."

Can't wait to see some of their footage!

In the meantime, we will get working on adding more audio support :-) !

mmm...anyone for this rig in 3-D?

Ari Presler
05-11-2006, 08:59 PM
http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/DF%20Shoot.jpg

For those of you who havnt seen the 7" LCD operation with mirrored DVI output to large 24" widescreen LCD monitor in action, be sure to watch the David Faires video shoot (Courtesy of Cineform).

You can see some of the highlights in this Windows Media clip (http://www.cineform.com/video/SI-Shoot.wmv)

10s
05-11-2006, 09:45 PM
Great looking set up, the camera design resonates with my sensibilities.

Hey! WHERE IS SI's own DVXUSER Topic Header????????

Why isn't there one est? ............I have an idea but what's the word?

Emanuel
05-12-2006, 01:09 AM
Jason and Ari, this audio tip from 10s it's very useful, indeed!

hemophilia
05-12-2006, 01:28 AM
Yeah what's up with the DVXuser topic header, eh? There's just this thread, and another under "hvxnews", which this camera is most certainly not.

Jarred-- Why no props to the project that looks like a very cool step-up from the HVX? And when comparing it to the Red that gets not only a topic but its own color scheme, the SI will be cheaper, actually exists, will be out sooner, and many other cool points. Such as the fact that the people working on it are [also] here soliciting our opinions to bring to market a product that serves our needs. So let's give credit where credit is due! The fact that Ari and Jason are here answering questions and getting feedback is wicked-cool; props to them.

If no SI topic appears, and the DVX-kings show up to give their next HVX boot camp fully decked-out in Oakley gear-- they're going to be highly suspect!

Jarred Land
05-12-2006, 01:41 AM
ha ha ha dont worry.. we are discussing it now.

hawaj
05-12-2006, 10:57 AM
Hey! WHERE IS SI's own DVXUSER Topic Header????????

Yes, WHERE???


.

Jarred Land
05-12-2006, 11:34 AM
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=82

10s
05-12-2006, 12:45 PM
Excellent Jarred,

& I see you put up a site for the other camera.

This is getting really good!!!

Keep up the good work.

Ari Presler
05-12-2006, 08:41 PM
Hi Jarred,

It was a please speaking with you and thanks for creating the new forum space for us. Any chance of getting it brought up a level to be visible at the top menus?

bill
05-15-2006, 11:05 AM
This seems like the pro camera for our next venture. Kudos to all. Also this brings back manufacturing to the good old US o A, Bush notwithstanding.

Jarred Land
05-15-2006, 11:09 AM
Hi Jarred,

It was a please speaking with you and thanks for creating the new forum space for us. Any chance of getting it brought up a level to be visible at the top menus?

considering there are only 1 post posted here every couple days, it doesnt justify a greater exposure.

David Newman
05-15-2006, 12:10 PM
To took me a while to find where it went, I think that is the exposure issue Ari is talking about.

Ari Presler
05-15-2006, 04:13 PM
I concur with David. How does anyone know we have a forum on DVXUser to post on?

Jarred Land
05-15-2006, 04:20 PM
by going to the other camera sections.. it is an other camera.

Forrest Schultz
05-15-2006, 04:47 PM
Ari, you should also try an get a good spot on dvinfo.net they do not seem to be biased towards any one camera. It looks as if though Jarred is only really supporting RED. And by saying that, i mean he's pushing it to death. While your SI-1920 camera seems more in the grasps of our hands today.

Jarred Land
05-15-2006, 05:04 PM
well so much for the thanks jarred for the dedicated forum.. Dont think this will last very long if im going to start being called out.

Red approached me 6 months ago, and they go their own forum last month when demand started to call for it.. Ari contacted me last week.

Ari Presler
05-15-2006, 08:05 PM
Jarred,

We really do appreciate the attention you are giving us and the fact that you have recognized us by establishing a dedicated area on your site (within days from our initial contact).

What is the best mechanism to communicate to the users that we now have this area?


Thanks,
Ari Presler
Silicon Imaging

hemophilia
05-16-2006, 03:23 AM
What is the best mechanism to communicate to the users that we now have this area?



Work your butt off on the camera and continually share the results here in the forum! The rest will take care of itself.

To answer a question you had previously "how small/light would you like it?"... the obvious answer is "as much as possible". I guess this thing is basically a tiny camera head attached to a small-form-factor PC, which obviously limits the size and power requirements in ways that cameras like the HVX don't have to deal with. And having a removable camera head does help in most of the situations where size would be an issue, actually promoting a design like this above more traditional integrated cameras. But siize and power are nonetheless an issue, and no one wants to have to buy thousands upon thousands of dollars of batteries to do a day of shooting on location. (Although if the camera delivers on everything else it could well be worth it.) ;)

Could you explain a bit more about the recording interface? From what I can tell, it's a stand-alone app on the attached PC that uses the touch-screen-style interface to control all the record funtions? And to give you display features such as zoom (for focus) and that sort of thing? And this app records .avi's? Which are then subsequently available to Premiere (or anything that supports the cineform codec)?

Please, correct me on anything I'm wrong about from that vague understanding of your workflow.

Cheers,
Kevin

Ari Presler
05-16-2006, 06:44 AM
Kevin,

Yes you are correct. We currently record to .AVI but will have QT support as well. The UI is completely touchscreen driver, but most critical controls are also mapped to CTRL keys so we can map USB botton devices, as well.

The EVE (SI-1920HDVR code-name) is an integrated camera and embedded PC system with a USB hot-swap HDD cartridge system at ~65W consumption. The Camera head (optical block) is detachable and can run over Gigabit Ethernet and 12VDC (~6W) for head-on-wire/POV operation. Here is a rig the "Spoon" film production is using. An LCD monitor is attached to the top of the camera for focus and composition, but all controls and recording is being dont from a separate workstation.



http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5740/974/1600/camera_beta_400pix.jpg


You get an in-depth look and explanationat of the Camera/UI and Cineform workflow fron the Studio Daily video interview.


http://www.studiodaily.com/images/studiodaily/header_logo.gif

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/news...ines/6536.html


Regarding size, is there a point where the camera becomes too small to fit comfortably on a shoulder and operate with accesories attached?

We want to build the highest value D-Cinema camera and workflow. We need your input.

Ari

Omada
05-16-2006, 08:23 AM
Ari, might I suggest naming this camera something a little more memorable. I was telling a DP friend about this cam system the other day and couldn't even remember what it's called. Also, Sony and Panasonic have sent me a few DVD-demos to check out on my home theater system which is a great idea because watching scaled down footage on my PC is a pain and never looks right. Do you guys have a demo disk available? I'm considering purchasing your system and I wouldn't mind sharing a demo with a few DPs I know.

One last question I have relates to the ugly video smear that's often present in HD-originated movies. I generally find that the motion of 24P HD video to be fine but sometimes I notice the dreaded ghost trails or video smearing, even when a subject is simply walking. Have you guys found this to be present in your tests? It's a dead givaway of video origination. Does this have more to do with the shutter speed or is it a hardware/medium issue?

Jason Rodriguez
05-16-2006, 08:52 AM
The "smear" is from an "open" shutter running at the full-frame time. You can see on our website from the WMV files that the shutter looks pretty good, there's none of that nasty open-shutter "smear" that screams "Video!"

Thanks,

Jason Rodriguez
Silicon Imaging

colormeter
05-16-2006, 08:10 PM
Regarding size, is there a point where the camera becomes too small to fit comfortably on a shoulder and operate with accesories attached?
The Aaton A-Minima is a very little camera, and it feels AWESOME in my hands and propped up against my shoulder. The wooden hand grip makes it a pleasure to hold and operate. Ahh, if only DV cameras could be so comfortable.

I don't think you can make it "too small" to be honest. But, it needs to look sexy. See the Arri 235? THAT is a sexy looking camera. It needs to have a good fit and finish, otherwise I would be embarrassed to use it. Honest.

hemophilia
05-16-2006, 08:19 PM
Yes I saw the Studio Daily video-- very interesting, and informative, but I just wasn't entirely clear if I had understood everything correctly.

I see that the software allows for zoom for focus and some sort of highlight display function. Is it also going to provide more 'traditional' displays such as waveform/vector-scope/histogram-style displays? That could be very useful.

Also the ability to easily view a reference image would be nice. e.g. If you're doing reshoots of a scene for example, being able to switch easily between monitoring an image from the previous shoot vs. the live feed is very helpful getting that hard-to-achieve consistency/continuity. Such a thing can also be helpful when shooting outdoors in constantly changing light, or for referencing storyboards, etc.

OK I have about two-thousand more suggestions/questions, but I'll let you get these implemented first, let me know when you're ready for more direction! ;D

-Kevin

Ari Presler
05-16-2006, 08:57 PM
Kevin,

Keep sending the suggestions....!

1.) Histograms are already high on the list. Waveform and Vector are not. The color doesnt matter in the camera. You can create any look you want in post from the RAW (digital negatives). Between Histograms and the exposure meter and, oh yeh, touch point metering anyone should be able to set correct exposure without clipping.

2.) Reference Image...YES! I like your suggestion of the A/B comparison to make sure everyone/everything is aligned and on mark. We would enable a playback of a clip, freeze on a frame and store it in Ref-A memory. Then during live mode you can cut back and forth between the stored ref frame (A) and live feed (B). We have also discussed A+B Live (A) plus Frozen (B) with 50/50 brightess or overlay...Do you think that mode would be useful?

Awaiting next instructions....

Ari Presler
05-16-2006, 09:09 PM
The Aaton A-Minima is a very little camera, and it feels AWESOME in my hands and propped up against my shoulder. The wooden hand grip makes it a pleasure to hold and operate. Ahh, if only DV cameras could be so comfortable.

I don't think you can make it "too small" to be honest. But, it needs to look sexy. See the Arri 235? THAT is a sexy looking camera. It needs to have a good fit and finish, otherwise I would be embarrassed to use it. Honest.


These A-Minima and 235 seem to be the gold standard in body designs. We have some size constraints for the components and some extra connectivity we need for our camera, but we should definitely look at these for ideas.

Anything you didnt like on those, that you would change?

hemophilia
05-17-2006, 10:47 PM
1.) Histograms are already high on the list. Waveform and Vector are not.... Between Histograms and the exposure meter and, oh yeh, touch point metering anyone should be able to set correct exposure without clipping.


Yeah it's just that the traditional-style waveform display is something that gives more detail than histograms (as far as what parts of the image are exposing to what values), and all the video-nerds in the world are quite used to them.

I realize that since you're recording a raw digital format the waveform monitor wouldn't be "accurate", in the sense that you're not dealing with voltages IRE and that sort of crap. And you could achieve the same thing with the combination of a histogram and a spot meter. It's just a very familiar style of exposure metering that people are comfortable with and know how to use effectively and quickly.

About the codec, could you clarify what "perceptually lossless" means? I'm assuming you mean it is a lossy codec, in that it's not bit-for-bit identical to the original, but that the compression is so mild as to be undetectable? And I'm assuming that there's no extra compression of the color space (4:2:2, that sort of thing) as is common with YCrCb/YUV-based codecs?

As for further suggestions, I hate to say it cause I think it's stupid, but I have to echo the previous post. Marketing is key. Give it a trendy name. Make it ergonomic and professional/stylish-looking. As lame as it is, looks and names and dumb stuff like that does come into play, and people are less-likely to buy a camera that looks like a lens attached to a black box. Just look at how much money people drop for (even really poorly made) matte boxes. Most of those people are not just buying it to block out light or slide filters in! Many of the posts on this board that I've read are from people that admittedly bought matte boxes primarily to make their camera "look cool" and "impress clients". Sad but true. So you should lower the suspension and put on an exhaust tip and tint the windows and put a big green racing stripe down the middle.

Although the touch-screen (aside from seeming quite useful) does give a lot of points on the "cool-meter".

-Kevin

Jason Rodriguez
05-17-2006, 11:09 PM
Hi,

I think once you use our false-color exposure meter mode along with the touch-screen spot meter, waveforms will seem like the dark ages . . . and of course we have a histogram thrown in there for kicks :)

BTW, also please realize that we can't draw a waveform line-for-line like a "true-waveform" that could be used as an accurate instrument . . . we're going to have to sample data or decimate, or something like that for the waveform display to get real-time playback and response, or else all our CPU is going to go for drawing the waveform vs. compression performance. Once we start decimating and sampling, the usefullness of the waveform falls well below what you will get with the false-color exposure meter mode and the spot meter (where you can simply touch on a spot and get a reading of the value at that point), and the video "tech-heads" who would have originally desired the waveform will scream that it's "not accurate". Also realize for overall image value distribution, you'll have a per-channel histogram so you can see when just the red channel or blue channel clips, and the value distributions per-channel. Waveforms can't really tell you that information in such a nice concise, neat manner as we can with these other exposure/image analysis aids. So again, not to say that waveforms are a "dumb" feature or anything of that nature, but I think once you use the tools that we have included for this same purposes, you'll realize that waveforms are a redundancy that is not quite as efficient at getting the job done as these other tools, and more importantly, with the current processor budgeting, we're going to have to make compromises in the rendering of the waveform to keep real-time performance that will not make it as effective a tool as you might imagine from a Omnitek, Leader or Tektronics that you're used to.

"Perceptually Lossless" is like HDCAM-SR or Digibeta . . . there won't be complaints about compression artifacting. Also keep in mind that the Cineform codec was created to withstand many, many compression/decompression cycles without showing artifacting, so there's A LOT of mileage in the codec as a production codec. It's not only ideal for production, but for post-production and compositing as well.

Ari Presler
05-18-2006, 07:51 PM
Anyone want to provide input for the new name of the SI-1920HDVR. We have started a new thread and seeking suggestions.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=57727

Anyone interested in using our cameras for 3D...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=56995

Ari Presler
05-21-2006, 08:40 PM
The audio meter could have, 0 at the top, and working it's way down, the all important -3, and then -5, -9,-12, etc... possibly becoming larger increments as it gets quieter. Also, dynamic and static peak level indicators are valuable. Those are the little marks that stay momentarily to indicate where the peaks are hitting.

Feature has now been added...task completed!

Ari Presler
05-28-2006, 10:30 AM
Check out the latest info and images from the set:


http://indiefilmlive.blogspot.com/





http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/1600/_MG_9407.jpg

10s
05-28-2006, 12:08 PM
Wow! it looks like a big boy.

Thanks

Ari Presler
05-29-2006, 07:08 PM
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5740/974/320/001.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5740/974/1600/001.jpg)


ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips/SI1920HDVR/web_001.wmv
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5740/974/320/003.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5740/974/1600/003.jpg)

ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips/SI1920HDVR/web_003.wmv


http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5740/974/320/004.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5740/974/1600/004.jpg)
ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips/SI1920HDVR/web_004.wmv


Some quotes from the Blog:

"The shoot is going extremely well. Thanks to everyone who has made it so. This format is turning out to be ideal for our comic strip style film. The look is unique falling between film and video. It is soft yet clear - video without the video edging we all hate. The beauty shots are great - the make-up reads better than other hd formats (it's more like film).

We've shot varying conditions. The darker areas are holding up but there is nothing to beat this camera in good light. I will try and give two clips today at least - one with school yard bench scene in strong light and a darker industrial shot.

Despite the fact that these camera heads are prototypes they are working really well. We had some static build up issues (at least i think that's what they were) first when I booted up the second camera head after transportation and again when shooting Daniel's soaked apartment. These sort themselves out when ground is properly done and when the head "settles down".

We've shot close on 40 hours of footage (probably too much but to have the coverage is great). Both close personal performance stuff and a fair bit of action. Both are great. The action stuff has a really unique real feeling while remaing very filmic (not videolike).

We've shot a lot with zooms for efficiency but the fast 16mm primes are the way to go if you have time. Much more light and hence data gets through."


-------------------------
"Shoot it with Silicon"


Does anyone want some Silicon to use for their next project?

Comments?

Ari Presler
05-31-2006, 09:35 PM
The Spoon blog is now getting over 400 hits a day. Anyone here looking at the footage? Does the broader DVXUSER constituants even know we exist?

Jarred Land
05-31-2006, 09:40 PM
oh yes.. 5000 registered dvxusers have looked at this single post alone :)

Ari Presler
05-31-2006, 09:59 PM
Jarred,

Does this mean 5000 unique members read this thread...wow? (I thought that the counters may have been showing same memeber doing multiple visits?)

Do you think we are getting enough readership to justify placing the Silicon Imaging Forum at the top menu level?

Emanuel
05-31-2006, 11:04 PM
I'm not Jarred but I think it deserves!

This is not an interlaced camera or only a 720p neither! :)

Jarred Land
05-31-2006, 11:11 PM
yeah thats unique.. go try and enter the thread then go out of it and enter it again.. you wont count :)

Emanuel
05-31-2006, 11:34 PM
5,000 are a lot of viewers considering the other cameras sub-forum...despite this one as ONE of the most helpful web forums. And you know that Jarred, when you cold everybody when you took away for some hours our useful sub-forum from our beloved home.

filmmaker1977
05-31-2006, 11:39 PM
I'm not Jarred but I think it deserves!

This is not an interlaced camera or only a 720p neither! :)i support that

Fugitive
06-01-2006, 02:42 AM
Think of it as a more tangible Red (at the moment). I support Emanuel and FilmMaker1977.

MovieSwede
06-01-2006, 03:04 AM
Agree this should be treated as the red. Both companies show real intrest in their customers. And both have a real nice product.

dan
06-01-2006, 08:45 AM
Being NEW, I think it deserves more exposure rather than being buried with "other cameras" from established manufacturers. This camera has demonstrated potential NOW, we see new frames and footage every day from it and new visitors on this forum (yes, potential customers) should be aware of its existence upfront. But then again, I am just a guest here eager to meet others on the dance floor and see them in a glance, without missing those allowed to wonder on the patio only.

Ari Presler
06-05-2006, 01:51 PM
I still hear consistent comments about the lack of SILICON exposure :-(.

"I just stumbled upon you!"

Any suggestions on how to improve our visibility?

Forrest Schultz
06-05-2006, 02:14 PM
Ari, if Jared would be so kind, He can make a section just for Silicon Imaging. I dont see why not? isnt this what the indie filmakers have been asking all along? i mean its here and its real, yet the Silcon Imagin threads are thrown under the same section as a the FX1.

I have no problem with RED, but i beleive there is no reason to be biased towards RED, unless there is some serious butt-smoochin going on.

Im with Emanual, filmmaker1977, and Fugutive. I also think Dan has same spirit burning inside too. hes just very polite.

StMad
06-05-2006, 05:29 PM
Ari, if your overall product and service is up to the footage we've seen recently, I can't see you not impacting the market. Unless you run out of cash?

I'll be surprised if I don't end up owning the cam within the year. As far as I can see there's nothing within double the price that can match this cam, and the workflow seems no more difficult than what mini dv owners are used to. $20k is a little rich for my blood, so I'll be looking at the $12.5k package with lappy. Red with lens and recording looks like coming in at close to double this, so it's just not an option for me.

As for the lens, you bundle 2 with the cam, no? Where can I find more info about these?

Oh, and do you think having a design for the housing will help cement this product in people's minds? When I think Red I think clean lines, futuristic design and ready to go (and it's not out yet!). When I think SI I think cables hanging loosely, DIY and concept cam. No disrepect intended, and maybe it's just me.

Steve

Ari Presler
06-05-2006, 08:47 PM
Steve,

When we first launched the Mini, we thought it was going to be used primarily as a POV camera and were going to offer some c-mount lenses just to get started. However, it seems that the prefence has resulted in the demand to have one of the professional mounts F, PL or B4 (and rent the Cinema optics). For professional shooting, we are thinking to offer an HD zoom (~$10-12K) for those who can afford it. What optics would you use?

The DVR camera design is progressing well and it WILL be alot different from the prototype unit. We may start releasing 3-D model concepts in the next 3-4 weeks to get some user feedback. We just need to finalize a few more silver bullets for all to enjoy.

In the meantime, we want to design the rig for the MINIs



Here are a few of the photos for ideas:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5740/974/1600/_MG_9555.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/1600/_MG_1210.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/1600/_MG_0720.jpg

What requests do you have for you ap. I had started a thread for the rigs here...
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=573465#post573465

Ari Presler
06-05-2006, 08:50 PM
Ari, if Jared would be so kind, He can make a section just for Silicon Imaging. I dont see why not? isnt this what the indie filmakers have been asking all along? i mean its here and its real, yet the Silcon Imagin threads are thrown under the same section as a the FX1.

I have no problem with RED, but i beleive there is no reason to be biased towards RED, unless there is some serious butt-smoochin going on.

Im with Emanual, filmmaker1977, and Fugutive. I also think Dan has same spirit burning inside too. hes just very polite.


Forrest,

My comments were intended as a broad market statement and inquiry for suggestions to better communicate to the market via a grass roots effort.

For example, as you can see from the thread here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=68444

"That footage is nothing short of amazing. How come you guys have been so silent about this camera? Never heard about it before."

We obviously need to do a better job communicating we are here!!

The fact is that, until recently, Silicon Imaging may not have been considered of "primary" interest on these boards, based on the intial amount of activity and/or interest levels. When I intially spoke to Jarred, he assured me that when the interest level rises, he would consider repositioning us at the same level as others. Maybe that time has come???

:) .....


PS. This thread has now gone over the 5000 count.

Keep spreading the words...

Shoot your next project with SILICON!

StMad
06-06-2006, 12:39 AM
Steve,

When we first launched the Mini, we thought it was going to be used primarily as a POV camera and were going to offer some c-mount lenses just to get started. However, it seems that the prefence has resulted in the demand to have one of the professional mounts F, PL or B4 (and rent the Cinema optics). For professional shooting, we are thinking to offer an HD zoom (~$10-12K) for those who can afford it. What optics would you use?[/URL]

Ari,

Much learning ahead for me - my understanding of pro optics is not strong. I currently own an xl2, and thought I'd step past the current crop of 1/3" hd cams. I'll likely still do this, though obviously there's a bit involved. It makes sense that the move to 2/3" hd requires quality glass to take advantage.

At this stage in my development I'll get more value owning than renting. Until I rent should I look at a cheaper c-mount zoom lens ($3-4k would be my budget) or a couple of primes? How little ($wise) is too cheap for primes?

And thanks for the link - I'm just starting to realise what I'm getting myself into - and wouldn't have it any other way :)

MovieSwede
06-06-2006, 03:06 AM
Ari the best thing would be to get tha cam in a big movie production. The XL1s did get some good PR for 28dl.

Not sure how big Spoon production is, but if it comes out as a filmout that can really start a hype.

Jason Rodriguez
06-06-2006, 06:33 AM
BTW, if you have a 3-4K budget, I would advice purchasing some PL-mount lenses from Optar Illumina (Russian lenses with optical quality similar to Zeiss).

http://www.kievcamera.com/razdel.php?razdel=26

Ari Presler
06-09-2006, 11:54 PM
Here you can see the benefits of having the worlds smallest and lightest weight Digital Cinema Camera!

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/1600/Shoulder%20and%20Handle%20cam.0.jpg


Anyone have some suggestions for the Mini Rig design? Handle bars, mounting options, rod configurations, battery mounts, LCD supports, interchangable parts, assembly, etc...

Jarred Land
06-10-2006, 12:45 AM
the hand truck thing is the funniest/coolest thing i have seen in awhile.

Emanuel
06-10-2006, 01:10 AM
the hand truck thing is the funniest/coolest thing i have seen in awhile.*:)* LOL ...but probably it works... :cheesy:

planetearth
06-16-2006, 06:52 AM
Well, like so many others (and as Ari has mentioned), "just stumbled upon this camera" and it truly looks amazing. Did see some mini-rumblings about it from NAB, but this really looks like a great product. The mini/remote head would be great when going to remote locations where not only a second camera is important, but a back-up camera or two would be vital (and in this case, cost effective). Good work!

Ari Presler
06-16-2006, 09:43 AM
Yes. At $12.5K and a modern notebook you can be shooting Silicon footage :-) !

I would still like to see the Silicon Imaging forum brought up to the top menu level (or at least an honorable mention). I need to ask Jarred.

planetearth
06-16-2006, 10:24 AM
I'm sure it will get a top level menu soon.

Question though, where could I get more information on this 12-15mb/s data rate/compression and how it compares to other compressed and uncompressed HD footage? Please forgive my ignorance, but my brain just doesn't seem to compute such a low rate as having the quality needed for some of my upcoming HD broadcast demands let alone 2k.

Also, saw the video clip where you describe some of the camera's capabilities - you mentioned timelapse and long exposers. What kind of exposure lengths could one get? 10 to 20 seconds?

Thanks for any info.

Jason Rodriguez
06-17-2006, 11:39 AM
RAW bayer data is already 1/3 the data-rate of a normal RGB video stream. The reason being because a bayer sensor only sees black and white (single channel) . . . the color is then interpolated from the bayer mask on the sensor (each individual pixel has a R, G, and B mask in front of the pixel, so that's how you "see" color). When the bayer data is demosaiced, you get full RGB data-rates (3x the data).

Now if the data-rate is 1/3 that of an RGB stream, then for 10-bit data, you're now talking around 62MB/s for a 1920x1080 stream at 24fps.

Now if we compress that RAW data (not do a demosaic before compression, but just compress the RAW bayer data) at a very mild 4:1 or 5:1 ratio, you get 12-15MB/s.

Cineform RAW is a very clever and high-quality way of transporting the RAW bayer data stream.

planetearth
06-18-2006, 10:07 AM
Thank you very much for that interesting information. Cheers.

Jarred Land
06-18-2006, 10:09 AM
Yes Jason thats a very good post.

Ari Presler
06-26-2006, 04:43 AM
The blog over at indiefilmlive.blogspot.com (http://indiefilmlive.blogspot.com/) has been updated . . . go check it out with new pictures and descriptions of the shooting progress!

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/1600/Day09_VT02%20copy.jpg

Ari Presler
07-01-2006, 07:51 AM
Behing the scene clips posted:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/400/Camera%20LCD.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/1600/Camera%20LCD.jpg)

ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips/Camera%20LCD%20Screen.wmv

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/400/Camera%20on%20Jib%20Arm.jpg

ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips/Camera%20on%20Jib%20Arm.wmv

More details on the blog (http://www.indiefilmlive.blogspot.com/)!

Ari Presler
07-05-2006, 02:05 PM
Here are some more clips from behind the scenes from the Spoon Blog.



http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/400/Shoulder%20and%20Handle%20cam.0.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/1600/Shoulder%20and%20Handle%20cam.0.jpg)
Shoulder and Handle (ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips/Shoulder%20and%20Handle%20cam.wmv)


This clip will give you a good look at what the camera looks like. This is NOT the full body version, which is a bit bigger with the drives attached. Still, we are using this head on wire for almost all our filming. You can see in the second part of the clip with Grant just how nice and light the camera is. He is easily holding it up and able to move it around smooth and effortlessly.



http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/400/Bungee%20and%20slide%20cam.0.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/1600/Bungee%20and%20slide%20cam.0.jpg)
Bungee rigs and Slide (ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips/Bungee%20and%20Slide%20Cam.wmv)



We posted a picture of these bungee rigs previously, now take a look at them. The rigs, built by Alfie gave a nice handheld feel to the shots. The last part of the clip is a rig we built for a slow high angle 'track' to close-up on the car window, it worked great.





http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/400/Two%20cams%20on%20one%20Dolly.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/1600/Two%20cams%20on%20one%20Dolly.jpg)
Two camera's on one dolly (ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips/Two%20camera%27s%20on%20one%20dolly.wmv)


This is one of our out-door shooting days, luckily we had nice weather. Here you can see why it's so nice to have just the head of the camera's: it's light-weight, and it's a lot smaller. Thus enabling us to put both heads on this one dolly and covering a wide and close shot in one take.



http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/400/Cable%20stunt.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5726/2997/1600/Cable%20stunt.jpg)
Cable Stunt (ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips/Cable%20Stunt.wmv)



A little stunt we did at the power station. Can't give away WHY he is moving through the air. In the second part of the clip we strapped Shaheen into the same harness and pulled him back to get a POV shot of the action.


Any requests????

Ari Presler
07-09-2006, 10:12 PM
We have some greenscreen footage for download:


http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/Thumbnails/greenscreen.jpg




You can get it here:

http://www.siliconimaging.com/Digita...y_footage.html (http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/gallery_footage.html)

Download and have fun!

P.S. We've been getting great results from Keylight which comes with After Effects 6.5, 7.0, and Shake.

Also note the the shot was a moving jib-arm shot, so it's not the "sharpest" shot you could get from the camera . . . but it shows what can happen with a decent green-screen from the camera.

dan
07-09-2006, 10:38 PM
the shot was a moving jib-arm shot, so it's not the "sharpest" shot you could get from the camera . . .
It will get sharper soon even @1.2.. (regardless the jib, steadicam or dolly). Bin there, hehehe.

Ari Presler
07-15-2006, 09:36 AM
"Here is a good general dynamic range shot showing both the sky and underneath the trees/foliage that are in the shadows. Shots like this can be pretty hard to get decent contrast in without adding some light for the street, which they didn't do. So you can see pretty deep into the shadows, but also get good detail in the sky and the moutains beyond which would generally be a lot brighter since you're catching those direct rays from the sun."

Jason Rodriguez




http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/Thumbnails/SpoonCar.jpg
Taxi on side-street
Windows Media HD (http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/Spoon_Car.wmv) (31MB)




I have pulled a matte using Combustion+Ultimatte. That was the best matte I have ever pulled. But I have to admit that I have never worked with HD before.



Anyone want to post some composites from the green screen?

Maheel
07-15-2006, 09:11 PM
I am now downloading a 1+gig tif sequece of the Green Screen footage. I will post some composite once it is completed.

Ari Presler
07-20-2006, 12:59 PM
The full story is now uploaded to David Newman's blog: http://cineform.blogspot.com/2006/07...s-success.html (http://cineform.blogspot.com/2006/07/silicon-imaging-in-48-hours-success.html)

That post includes download links for the movie in multiple resolutions (1080p, 720p and youtube (sub-SD).)

Here is a pic of Jake holding the Mini with lightweight 15mm Rods & Dionic-90 battery. The recording was done to a SONY VIAO Notebook!
http://www.cineform.com/48hour/Image4.jpg

Fugitive
09-08-2006, 11:44 PM
Dont let the activity of this forum drop to zero Ari. Let us in on what you guys are doing.

filmmaker1977
09-09-2006, 12:32 AM
agreed..

as i posted and you probably has been reading it fugitive..

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=70361&page=2

..these guys must learn a lot with the red experience.. differents but there.. might be your slogan..

we want you here among us as your customers but not as you don't need of public showing.. see the jannard's example.. ok, you don't have his money to be the stars but don't be away in your private life.. we need you, you need us.. other good slogan.. eheh.. any purposes? these ones are already registered.. as posts already published it has legal procedure.. (just for the case to any abusive reader.. :grin:)

Ari Presler
09-13-2006, 05:53 AM
http://www.siliconimaging.com/Images/Showreel%20US3%20cover.jpg


Simon Hansen and Sharlto Copley used the first two prototype Silicon Imaging SI-1920 cameras on indie feature, Spoon. Here they detail the workflow and explain how the cameras performed.

http://www.showreel.org/memberarea/article.php?203 (http://www.showreel.org/memberarea/article.php?203)

Fugitive
09-15-2006, 08:57 AM
Very interesting. Good to know Silicon is alive and well... :)

Fugitive
09-23-2006, 04:51 AM
This forum is dying. It needs water and sunlight.

Emanuel
09-23-2006, 05:42 AM
I agree. I'm sure and believe this Mini will rock...

http://www.cineform.com/48hour/Image4.jpg

...but where are you? This and the other forums are worth of it.

Ari Presler
09-24-2006, 01:07 PM
Sorry Emanuel... I thought everyone was preoccupied looking at images on other forums ;-) .

We are busy preparing a presentation for Paul Otellini.

Emanuel
09-24-2006, 07:37 PM
Sorry Emanuel... I thought everyone was preoccupied looking at images on other forums ;-) .

We are busy preparing a presentation for Paul Otellini.Paul Otellini, Intel's CEO? Good one!

And thanks for your update Ari. I wish you all the best and your daily presence here.

Fugitive
09-25-2006, 03:58 AM
Sorry Emanuel... I thought everyone was preoccupied looking at images on other forums ;-) .


I think each forum has its own place. I am pretty sure everybody is keeping an eye on everybody. Just waiting to hear good news. :)

Emanuel
09-25-2006, 11:03 AM
There is a place for all. The Silicon Mini, for instance, will be an unique product without similar competition. Where's a small HD (maybe 2k we hope) camera like this one? Still, available from now?

Steve Nordhauser's post: LINK (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=545377&postcount=4)

Fugitive
09-30-2006, 01:27 AM
So how did the presentation with Paul Otellini go? Any news to share?

Ari Presler
10-01-2006, 02:01 AM
http://www.intel.com/sites/sitewide/pix/hdr-txt-logo.gif

This week Intel announced its partnership with Silicon Imaging and CineForm to optimize the use of Intel processors for video and cinema content creation in resolution and data rates which surpass HD.

During the keynote address by David (Dadi) Perlmutter, Senior Vice President General Manager, Mobility Group the Silicon Imaging Mini and CineForm workflow were used to highlight the next generation Core 2 Duo platform. A trailer from "Spoon", edited by emmy-award winning Tim Kolb, was shown to the audience during the presentation.

More coverage with Intel is expected around the world at upcoming IDF events:

Czech Republic, Prague (http://idfemea.intel.com/2006/prague/index.htm) October 4
India, Bangalore (http://www.idfindia.com/) October 10-11
Taiwan, Taipei (http://www.apacidf.com/twn/) October 16-17
Israel, Tel Aviv (http://idfemea.intel.com/2006/tel-aviv/index.htm) October 30
Korea, Seoul (http://www.idfseoul.com/idf2006/info/index_eng.asp) November 7-8
PRC, Shanghai (http://www.prcidf.com.cn/) November 9-10

Fugitive
10-01-2006, 01:28 PM
Wow, nice going!

Andreas
10-02-2006, 03:50 PM
Great news !

Ari Presler
10-08-2006, 08:24 PM
Trivia: The SI Mini is now being used to shoot content for a feature film with more special effects shots than Superman Returns. What production is it?

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/Picture%20046SI%20James%20and%20Dan%20and%20Phil.j pg


http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/Picture%20039SI%20James%20and%20Dan%203.jpg

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/Picture%20033SI%20James%20and%20Dan%202.jpg




http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/SI%20DP%20Run.look.jpg

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/SI%20fireball.look.jpg

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/SI%20explosion.look.jpg

Fugitive
10-09-2006, 03:03 AM
Whoa! Cool stuff. I give up! Which film is it?

Ari Presler
10-25-2006, 08:00 PM
For those of you who are subscribed to this specific thread, I have copied the post from Jason Rodriguez:

http://www.iridas.com/press/pr/20061025.html (http://www.iridas.com/press/pr/20061025.html)


I'm excited, and really, this is big news because it means our camera is now a complete "blank slate" for you to make whatever color adjustments you want, load that into the camera, and have complete color management from the camera head through post.

Nothing like this exists anywhere on the planet. There is no camera on the market that can take 3D LUT's and use them as the native colorimetry of the camera, shoot with that 3D LUT, and manage it as non-destructive meta-data all the way through post. You're typically either constrained to the annoying confines of the on-board matrix and colorimetry of the camera, or you can do the 3D LUT technology using the Iridas toolset, but you have to preview the look on a monitor that can use 3D LUT's, like an expensive Cinetal, or something of that nature.

Speedgrade On-set has some amazing tools to create any color-look you can imagine . . . virtual film-stocks, etc. If you don't like the way the camera looks, make it look like *anything* you want! Seriously!

The reason I say this is because 3D LUT's map one set of RGB triplets to another set of RGB triplets. As a result, a single 3D LUT can model absolutely ANY non-linear color correction, be it gamma correction, curves, saturation, selective color corrections, etc. Also our implementation of IRIDAS's 3D LUT's are completely non-destructive, meaning that if you clip the whites in the 3D LUT, but there's still "over-white" information, you can simply dial that information back in during post correction in a 32-bit floating point environment.

We're going to be packaging a bunch of generic looks with the camera to-do stuff like bleach bypasses, wide-Leeds range stuff, low-con looks, etc.

There'll be more information coming out soon, but we just wanted you all to be aware of the exciting new developments happening. We've been quiet, but we've been working hard :)

Jason


PS. The movie set photos above are from Mutant Chronicles...

PSS. .LOOK out for more new product announcements for HD Expo, Nov 2 and schedule your exclusive hands-on demonstration at Able Cine in Burbank on Nov 3. The LOOK of Cinematography is about to go thru metamorphosis.
</IMG>

Elton
10-26-2006, 09:23 PM
Sounds amazingly flexible. I look forward to demoing the camera.

Is that the mini-camera and is it being directly recorded into a laptop?

Jason Rodriguez
10-27-2006, 06:32 AM
Yes, those pictures are the Mini camera and they are being recorded directly into a Dell Core Duo laptop (M65).

In regards to the IRIDAS color-management workflow with unlimited access to LUT's and color "looks", that will be enabled on both the Mini and the DVR. So these cameras are now complete "blank slates", allowing you to get anything you want out of the camera.

I know it sounds a bit fantastic to say "anything", but really, with 3D LUT technologies, you can gamut-map from any one color-space to another color-space. That means non-linear color-spaces (non-cube), like film, etc., can all be modeled with 3D LUT technology. The only real limitation will be the noise-floor of the camera, as that will limit the overall dynamic range. But with an overall dynamic range over 11 bits, or >68db, there's plenty of headroom to work in. So we're talking extreme flexibility to get the image you want, and not be stuck with what the default camera look is like so many other devices out there.

Also remember the color management is all non-destructive metadata, and it happens on the RAW data in a 32-bit floating point color-space, meaning over-white and under-black values are always preserved if your LUT is higher contrast and virtually "clips" any data.

Elton
10-27-2006, 09:02 AM
Tantalizing. :)

Jason Rodriguez
10-27-2006, 01:51 PM
You bet it's tantalizing . . . if I were to say, "take an image, color-correct it in a 'photoshop-like' program, and that's how the camera will shoot native, and if you don't like it, it's all non-destructive so you can change you mind at any point in the post chain," well, I think that just describes the tip of the iceberg on the power that meta-data based 3D LUT technology can bring to the table.

Jarred Land
10-27-2006, 01:54 PM
yup.. thats how Raw and programs like Aperture work.

Ari Presler
11-01-2006, 11:02 PM
Here is a detailed explanation

Complete End-to-End Color Management

The SI-2K and 2K MINI camera systems powered by SiliconDVR set themselves
apart from the pack through their comprehensive support and integration with IRIDAS's production and post-production color-mangement system.
Reference images from the camera are imported into IRIDAS Speedgrade On-Set, a powerful, full-featured color-correction program with multiple stages of color-correction for the highlights, midtones, and shadows, along with the option of up to six separate secondary correctors. After the "look" that the D.P. or director deems is appropriate for the scene is created in Speedgrade On-Set, a .look file is exported from Speedgrade containing a comprehensive 3D LUT describing the color-corrections made. This LUT is then imported back into the camera system where not only a WYSIWYG preview of the "look" is created live using the host laptop or workstation's powerful GPU host processing system, but metadata for the .look file is applied to all subsequently recorded AVI's or Quicktime files on disk. With the "look" now embedded in the recorded AVI or Quicktime file, the editor can now edit with the color-correction in-context, rather than having to set-up a pre-arranged series of viewing environments, and be forced to edit with footage that does not reflect the creative desires of the D.P. or director. IRIDAS .look files are completely non-destructive metadata, so files can be full color-corrected and treated losslessly in post, and the 32-bit floating point internal processing engine of the CineForm RAW™ codec ensures that the complete dynamic range of the RAW data is available for creative manipulation at all times.

With the integration of an optional separate view LUT system in SiliconDVR, alternate .look files can be used as aids to visualize the look of the final film print in-context of the shoot with on-set monitoring systems. A D.P. can create a "look" that mimics the appearance of a certain film print stock on his or her monitor, while a separate, "flatter" color-corrected file is recorded to disk for further manipulation in post or the DI suite.


Interactive In-Camera Color Grading

Speedgrade On-Set's powerful suite of color-correction tools and 3D LUT export features allows for an unlimited number of "look" possibilities that can be previewed and applied to footage in-context of the SiliconDVR interface. Colorizing and designing the "look" of a scene or setting the style for a movie is no longer subject to a dizzying array of confusing submenus and un-intuitive control panels. Instead, the integration between SiliconDVR and Speedgrade On-Set allows for real-time, in-context color-correction of images from the SI-2K series cameras, and WYSIWYG performance between the two interfaces for complete accuracy and confidence in sculpting the look of your project. The era of looks being lost in translation between the set to post and editing is over. If you can imagine it, you can capture it.


Step 1. Prep Shot, Light and Grab Frame from Camera

Working with IRIDAS .look files, CineForm RAW™, and SiliconDVR is a simple 4-step process. In the first stage, the D.P. and director will set-up a scene and light it accordingly.

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/spacer.gif

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/IridasInterfacesWorkflow/UnColorCorrectedImage.jpg


Step 2. Import Image into Speedgrade On-Set and create "look"

Once the scene is lit, the D.P. will save a DPX image in SiliconDVR and import this "reference" DPX into Speedgrade On-Set. Once inside the Speedgrade Interface, he or she can design and mold the image to fit their creative vision for the scene. Alternatively, pre-recorded images could be used to create looks ahead of the shoot or for the creation of "virtual film stocks" that the D.P. wishes to default the look of the camera to. This alternative approach would reduce the amount of time spent on-set in color-correction.


http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/spacer.gifhttp://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/IridasInterfacesWorkflow/SpeedgradeInterface.jpg


Step 3: Export .look file and Re-Import into Camera for In-Context Viewing

Once work in Speegrade On-Set is complete, the .look file is re-imported into the SiliconDVR interface for complete WYSIWYG integration and control. Alternately, separate view and record LUT's can be utilized for diagnostic or alternative visualizations, such as creating the characteristics of the final film-print using on-set monitoring resources. Up to three .look files can be pre-loaded for in-flight operation and easy LUT comparisons and preview. Below is an example of two different .look files applied to the SiliconDVR interface from the .look file browser in the Speedgrade interface above.

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/spacer.gif

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/IridasInterfacesWorkflow/FinalColorCorrectedImage.jpg

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/spacer.gif

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/IridasInterfacesWorkflow/FinalColorCorrectedImage2.jpg


Step 4: Editing and Post with "Looks" Embedded with Recorded Files for complete WYSIWYG

During the recording process, metadata pointers are embedded in the recorded AVI or Quicktimes, connecting them with their associated .look files. When the recorded files are opening in the editing suite, the full color-information is available and embedded with the file, removing the barrier between the D.P.'s vision on-set and the post-production suite. Fully color-corrected dailies can also be created without the added time and expense of overnight telecine. Further down the line, rough-cuts can be viewed with the vision of the D.P. intact. Throughout the post-production chain, the D.P.'s vision remains intact, and should any color-correction be needed, the metadata-based approach of the IRIDAS color-management system allows for complete non-destructive editing of the RAW data, as well as the changing of the .look file associated with an AVI or Quicktime file should a complete re-visualization be necessary.

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/spacer.gif

Ari Presler
11-01-2006, 11:04 PM
http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/IridasColorManagementPipeline.jpg

Ari Presler
11-01-2006, 11:14 PM
http://www.iridas.com/06/pr/SiliconImaging_Logo.jpg (http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema)


http://www.cineform.com/images/Header2004TopLeft.jpg


2K Digital Cinema Camera Streamlines Movie and HD production


Silicon Imaging and CineForm team to shoot, edit and encode HD and 2K using Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processors


Hollywood, CA, November 1, 2006 –Silicon Imaging, with help from CineForm® and Intel Corporation, today unleashed a 2K Digital Cinema camera system set to revolutionize movie and HD production. The Silicon Imaging SI-2K will shoot footage directly to disk, at either 1920x1080P HD or 2048x1152 cinema resolutions running on motherboards integrated into the camera or on laptop computers powered by Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processors. Captured footage is instantly editable using CineForm’s Prospect 2K™ real-time visualization and colorization software. Afterwards finished projects can be directly encoded for theatrical distribution to digital cinemas or on-demand Internet download.

"The transition to digital cinematography started when George Lucas first shot 'Star Wars: Episode II' in HD," states Ari Presler, Silicon Imaging CEO. “Today, we have completely eliminated the need for film or tape and now offer the ability to shoot at even higher resolutions than HD, edit while each shot is taken, and have a production ready for distribution within weeks instead of months.”

The Silicon Imaging SI-2K is the first 2/3” digital cinema camera with 10-bit CineForm RAW™ and 12-bit uncompressed 2K direct-to-disk recording. It offers unprecedented image quality, over 10 f-stop dynamic range, a touch-screen interface and IT-friendly connectivity. It is also the first to deliver in-context 3D color-corrected “look” visualization and a complete raw post-production workflow.

Unlike modern HD cameras, which develop and compress colorized imagery inside the camera, the SI-2K streams images as uncompressed raw “digital negatives” over a standard gigabit Ethernet connection. An IntelCore 2 Duo processor-based computer embedded in the camera or tethered to a laptop up to 300 feet away, processes the digital negatives, where they are non-destructively developed and colorized for preview using the cinematographer's desired "look" for the scene.

The digital negatives and "look" metadata are simultaneously recorded to a 2.5” notebook hard drive using the CineForm RAW™ visually perfect codec. Up to 4-hours of continuous footage are captured on a single 160GB notebook drive; this is the equivalent of 14-reels of 35mm film which has an associated cost exceeding $25,000 for materials and processing.

“The Silicon Imaging camera is truly amazing” states Cinematographer Geoff Boyle. ”The SI-2K MINI is small enough to be placed directly in a scene for point-of-view shots, used on robotic arms for model photography or incorporate two side-by-side for stereo 3-D. We used it on ‘Mutant Chronicles’, a Sci-Fi feature with over 1500 visual effect shots. We shot flames and explosions using the 72fps slow motion mode and the recordings display smooth tonal gradations and natural colors. Finally, the director can immediately see full-resolution instant replays, without having to wait for film dailies or color correction."

CineForm’s Prospect 2K software, optionally bundled with the SI-2K, provides real-time, multi-stream editing of CineForm RAW files with look metadata using Adobe Production Studio, and supports both Windows AVI and Apple QuickTime formats. Further details on MacOS workflow including Final Cut Pro will be disclosed in the coming weeks.

“Together we are enabling a major paradigm shift in the entertainment industry for the way films are shot and edited," states David Taylor, CineForm CEO. “Our combined efforts allow CineForm RAW recording and Prospect 2K editing to retain the many benefits of shooting raw, including increased visual fidelity, while reducing costs during both production and post, and encouraging faster project completion.”

“With the power of multi-core ready applications and Intel Core 2 Duo processors, Silicon Imaging and CineForm have streamlined the digital high-resolution movie-making workflow,” said Elliot Garbus, general manager of the Developer Relations Division, Intel Corporation. “This solution promises cost and time saving benefits for cinematographers and directors by utilizing the power of multiple cores.”

The SI-2K DVR with an embedded Intel Core 2 Duo processor and hot-swap drive cartridge system plus the removable MINI camera head is $20,000 or bundled with Prospect-2K for $22,000; with estimated shipment in January. The SI-2K MINI is $12,500 and shipping in December.

Ari Presler
11-01-2006, 11:17 PM
http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/SI-2K_productpage.jpg (http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/SI_2K_key_features.html)


http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/SI-2Kmini_productpage.jpg (http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/SI_2Kmini_key_features.html)

Ari Presler
11-01-2006, 11:19 PM
http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/SiliconDVR_Interface_Main.jpg


http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/SiliconDVR_Interface_Playback.jpg

Fugitive
11-04-2006, 07:10 AM
Wow. AMAZING stuff. This 3d LUT stuff looks revolutionary!

Landon D Parks
12-12-2006, 04:04 PM
Be sure you guys include Frame markers for 1.33:1, 1.66:1, 1.78:1, 1.85:1 and 2.35:1... Also, it would be really neat if you could make it to where the area outside of the frame lines become a darker gray color. Kind of like how the film taps on the Arricam does... Not only does it look cool, but it also adds to the ability of framing (aka: you can still see the image outside of the frame guides, its just darker.)

This feature should be available on both the 7" LCD and all set monitors.

Implement this, and I'm definantly on the "future buyers" list.

Ari Presler
12-12-2006, 11:20 PM
Landon,

The guides for 1.33:1, 1.78:1, 1.85:1 and 2.39:1 are in! We already had some discussions about the darker areas especially for the 2.39:1 mode.

We will put this on the list of "future features" for the "future buyers" ;-) !

Jarred Land
12-12-2006, 11:22 PM
i agree.. a shaded overlay definately helps in framing.. and would be very cool to have custom input for aspect ratios.

Ari Presler
12-12-2006, 11:26 PM
What other permutations would you use?

Landon D Parks
12-14-2006, 04:18 PM
Even though 1.66:1 is not used VERY much, it would still be nice to have for those people who like the super16 aspect ratio or for those that are for some reason (???) outputting it to Super16. It would be a very simply add, that might help those in that market.

Also, this is just my opinion, but you guys should make those frame guides available in SAFE area and full width. Kind of like this image here:

http://img287.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tjh7.jpg

Ari Presler
01-18-2007, 01:32 PM
Jarred,

As you requested, we have added your shaded guides for 1.33:1, 1.78:1, 1.85:1 and 2.39:1.

Whats next?

ESTEBEVERDE
01-18-2007, 07:16 PM
Jarred,

As you requested, we have added your shaded guides for 1.33:1, 1.78:1, 1.85:1 and 2.39:1.

Whats next?



The next logical step would be to send me three evaluation units with primes! ;-)

Ari Presler
01-19-2007, 07:16 PM
Once again...you asked for it you've got it:

The SI-2K can now flip your image in any of 4 orientations or Left, Right, Up and Down. It can be used with

Gound Glass Converters
Low-Mode SteadiCams
50/50 Prism and Mirror shots

What other features do you want?

:grin:

MovieSwede
01-20-2007, 07:28 AM
A Rocket booster???? ;)

Ari Presler
01-20-2007, 08:38 AM
We are just revisiting your earlier requests and see you wanted a higher frame rate 2.35:1 mode at approximately 1920x810.

Now that we have 2K support would you prefer 2048 x 872 which will allow overcranking to approximately 37fps or do you prefer to stick with the 1920 mode at up to 42fps?

PS. Rocket Booster mode will have to wait for Mobile Quad-Core processors, but we do have it on our roadmap ;-)

MovieSwede
01-21-2007, 03:31 AM
For my self 1920*810 would be enough. But your product wouldnt get hurt of the other option as well.

would the Cineform RAW save storagespace if you shoot the same mode at 24fps?

Emanuel
01-21-2007, 04:09 AM
But your product wouldnt get hurt of the other option as well.I second that.

My preference (in my case) would be the 2048 x 872 but the other feature wouldn't hurt at all.

Regards and keep up the good work,
Emanuel

Ari Presler
01-21-2007, 10:54 AM
At 24P, there is a 15% difference in storage space. Only a few MB/sec in CineFormRAW.

The only reason I can see for the 1920 mode is to enable a higher frame rate for slow-mo, but a 1280 or 1440 width mode might be more suitable to get back to a target 72fps speed.

Jason Rodriguez
01-22-2007, 06:36 AM
BTW, consider that if you're shooting 2.39:1, you're most likely doing it for a film release, not broadcast television (HD) . . . so the best-bet is to get all the performance you can on the big screen out of the 2K mode which gives you a 14% resolution increase (and that's nothing to sneeze at).

MovieSwede
01-23-2007, 07:10 AM
Of course you want a high quality picture when you going to 35mm etc.

But my impression after wathcing F900 movies on the big screen. HDCAM cropped was 1440*810 with chroma 480*810 and it looked as good as 35mm.

So a SI at 1920*810 "4:4:4" wouldnt have so much trouble to compete with 35mm film.

But more res is always nice.

Emanuel
01-23-2007, 07:42 AM
Thanks Ari for your input and info.

I fully agree with you both, Jason and MovieSwede. Same idea here.

Jason Rodriguez
01-24-2007, 06:56 AM
HDCAM cropped was 1440*810 with chroma 480*810 and it looked as good as 35mm.

Depending on the crowd you hang with, that could be a pretty controversial statement :smile:

Consider though that the F900 is a 3-chip camera, so even though HDCAM is like a big electronic low-pass filter in front of a great camera head, it does have some advantages in a 1:1 resolution scenario vs. our single-senor design if you take into consideration the amount of incoming information from the camera head. Full RGB information from the camera head is a lot more source information that a single-sensor design.

Put it this way:

CineForm RAW vs. HDCAM --- Big win for us

3-chip vs. 1-chip bayer --- Big win for them

2K vs. 1080 (14% more resolution) --- Win for us

So if all else was equal, at 1080 resolutions, the F900 and our camera would be sort of equal in the fact that we have CineForm RAW on our side as a superior full-raster and 4:4:4 decode compression algorithm, while the F900 has the advantage of 3-chips. The two sort of cancel each other out. Now you throw 2K into the scenario, and you're starting to tip the scales in our favor. Which is what we want.

Now of course the math isn't necessarily that simple, but the point is that 2K does gain us quite a bit of resolution, and it's resolution you might not see on your DVD at home, but you will see it on the big screen. Combined that with the fact that if you shoot 2K, with the 2K digital cinema projectors on the market, you're going to be capable of displaying on those projectors in 1:1 resolution (DCI spec, etc.), without scaling like would be required from a 1080 source . . . going through a scaling algorithm is going to affect the footage, so if you can shoot and display at 1:1, you'll want to-do that. And again, if you're shooting 2.39:1, figure on the fact that you're most likely going to be shooting those sorts of aspect ratios for the cinema screen since broadcast HD television is 16:9 and they don't want 2.39:1 footage. If your movie goes straight to DVD you'll still want the flexibility one day to show it on a cinema projector in it's 2K glory. I think one thing to take into consideration is the fact that with digital cinema projectors, the market is going to change quite a bit . . . i.e., right now it's either a $50K film-out or straight to DVD . . . with digital cinema projectors it will be a general DVD release along with private or limited screenings in 2K at your local cinema chain (for instance, you might rent the theater out on a Friday night or weekend matinee). So you have to take into consideration that 2K showings are going to be much more common-place even if you can't do a film-out, and that means you'll want a native 2K copy of your movie.

So, even though you loose a couple frames-per-second at the top, I think the 2.39:1 aspect ratio on the SI-2K would be best done at 2K resolutions to give you guys the best performance on the big screen, especially considering the fact that we're a single-sensor design and not a 3-chip camera (so we need a little extra resolution overhead to make up the difference in resolution between a 3-chip and 1-chip camera).

MovieSwede
01-24-2007, 11:38 AM
I think you underestimate your own camera a little. ;)

You have 3CCD vs 1CMOS.

And even if they could bring out more with the CCDs, your 1CMOS-CineForm RAW workflow is a much cleaner than their 3CCD-HDCAM rout.

An avarage Theather have only about 450-650 lines of res.

Of course it doesnt hurt with 2K mode. But the big difference wouldnt be the res but the rest (shutter, colors, dynamic range etc).

I just watched the trailer for Münich in 720P (1280*540) QT. And could you imitate that look, there is no need for 35mm.

Ari Presler
01-28-2007, 11:15 AM
Here are a few stills I just received from Evan Glodell (Glory Blaster Productions) on the set of "Boss of the Glory" an Episodic Comedy he is shooting for STIMTV.

If you want a great laugh and get the pictures into context, you can watch his trailer first (not shot with SI-2K, but still worth he entertainement).

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/Boss%20of%20Glory.JPG
http://stimtv.com/index.php?link=1952

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/GERTIE%20PICTURE%20SI2K.jpg

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/GERTIE%20PICTURE%20SI2K.bmp (6MB)
http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/SEAN%20LIQUOR.jpg


http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/SEAN%20LIQUOR.bmp (6MB)

Erik Olson
01-28-2007, 11:22 AM
Ari,

Are these from the little camera?

e

Ari Presler
01-28-2007, 12:13 PM
Yes, the 2 stills.

I think they may have been shot with a GG converter that Evan built himself, using the Fujinon as a prime. I will ask for more details if you are interested.

Erik Olson
01-28-2007, 01:40 PM
You know I am!

e

ESTEBEVERDE
01-28-2007, 04:39 PM
Hello Ari! :-)

How are things?

Hope you and your family and team are all well!


How is development and shipping going?

What is the State of the Silicon Imaging Empire?

Ari Presler
01-28-2007, 06:52 PM
We have started delivery of the first MINIs with the production sensors and as you can see the image quality is AMAZING (If I may say so myself). The noise floor has dropped, the uniformity has improved. We are now getting almost 11 full stops of dynamic range and even higher sensitivity. :-) :-) :-).

We are ready to take orders and should be able to deliver within 30 days ARO (a little longer for PL Mounts right now)!

Anyone who orders an SI-2K will get the MINI delivered and the DVR portion when it is ready!

Who wants to be Blue #????

Andreas
01-28-2007, 07:45 PM
Hi Ari,
I am glad to hear that there is progress. Can't wait for a video update, stills look fine. Consider also posting an exported CFHD (CineForm HD) clip so we can have extra fan with it !

best
Andreas

Ari Presler
01-28-2007, 08:05 PM
We are going to do one better. We will be posting in CineFormRAW. What do you think would be a good size clip based on 15MB/sec?

Jason Rodriguez
01-28-2007, 08:15 PM
BTW, slight revision . . . I know we're getting 11 full f-stops of dynamic range, I've measured it myself . . . the last bit in the shadows is a little noisy, but it's there and being rendered/captured by the sensor and preserved in CineForm RAW.

Ari Presler
01-28-2007, 09:31 PM
Jason, that is excellent :thumbsup:

Erik, I checked with Evan and they are not shooting with the GG rig. They are using C-mount and Fujinon primes :cool: !!

Go Blue!

Andreas
01-29-2007, 07:16 AM
We are going to do one better. We will be posting in CineFormRAW. What do you think would be a good size clip based on 15MB/sec?


Doesnt CineFormRAW needs ProspectHD to work with ?

Andreas

Ari Presler
01-29-2007, 07:49 AM
Yes, you will need Prospect to edit with the footage. There is a 15-day trial available. I will ask CineForm to give us a link for public download.

donatello
01-29-2007, 09:09 AM
any new pic's of the SI 2k re-design yet ?
when are you going to have up pic's of the accessories for the mini ?

David Newman
01-29-2007, 09:56 AM
CineForm RAW files will play in media player yet these haven't beening demosaiced to 2K yet, great for real-time previews with full color / 3D LUT processing. However for showing what the camera get really do, developed 2K CineForm Intermediate files would be good. Both file types would be useful for those downloading the Prospect HD/2K trials.

Ari Presler
01-29-2007, 10:51 PM
I checked with Evan (Boss of Glory). They opted to shoot directly on the fujinon primes...maybe we didnt need to add that GGFlip function so early ;-)


http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/gertrude5.jpg

dan
02-01-2007, 04:59 AM
Looks good Ari,
was the lens on 2.8 or 2.8 and 1/2? (nevetheless looks good).
Keep on shipping and shooting.
Best,
Dan

Emanuel
02-01-2007, 08:32 PM
Dan,

Cheers :beer: amigo. I'm glad to read you. BTW, can you help here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=847697#post847697

I shall buy one of these toys and as many others, I'd like to buy a 35mm adapter for the task. Do you have any offer in this range?

BTW, (for) David (Newman), will that HDMI port (at this new $1,099 toy) any solution coming from yours? I'd buy it and I will, when available!


Ari and Jason, my Congrats! :)

Emanuel

Ari Presler
02-01-2007, 11:25 PM
Today at the Hollwood Post Alliance, Silicon Imaging officially announced the SI-2K is achieving 11 F-stops (but you already knew that before the rest of Hollywood!).

Here is snippet from Jason's presentation:
"These Macbeth cover 4.8 f-stops throuh 6.5 f-stop range from chart's black-chip noise floor to white chip highlight clip."

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/SI-2K%20Latitude%20Test.JPG


I will let Jason share more details from the conference, upon on his return.

David Newman
02-01-2007, 11:26 PM
BTW, (for) David (Newman), will that HDMI port (at this new $1,099 toy) any solution coming from yours? I'd buy it and I will, when available!

You will be able to buy that solution from us in a few weeks (if you don't already have our software as it is a free upgrade.)

Jason Rodriguez
02-02-2007, 12:51 AM
BTW, JFYI, that Macbeth with the EV14 looks grainy because it's been normalized to show where the noise floor lies . . . It's roughly the equivalent of ISO5000 on our camera . . . ISO500 on any camera is going to be grainy!

Edit: Typo . . . it should be ISO5000 . . . missed an extra zero the second time I mention the ISO #

Emanuel
02-02-2007, 01:15 AM
You will be able to buy that solution from us in a few weeks (if you don't already have our software as it is a free upgrade.)Thank you!

As far as the (potential) laptop solution concerns, can we call it so? That is, will there be any HDMI card for the task during this year or around?


Congrats once again Ari and Jason! This time on your latitude achievement.

agwah
02-02-2007, 06:55 AM
You will be able to buy that solution from us in a few weeks (if you don't already have our software as it is a free upgrade.)



As far as the (potential) laptop solution concerns, can we call it so? That is, will there be any HDMI card for the task during this year or around?

would this adapter
http://www.mobl.com/expansion/produc...ion/index.html

and this card
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/pro...sity/software/

make it possible to record to a mac book pro from the hdmi if you used cineform

will the cineforms final datarate be small enough to use one of the remaining storage solutions, the internal drive, a firewire or ethernet, or would one need to find some kind of divider for the expressport

David Newman
02-02-2007, 12:36 PM
Let's keep on topic. Non-SI CineForm questions should be in their own threads.

Back on topic. I just return from HPA (Hollywood Post Alliance) after two days of demoing the SI-2K and CineForm RAW, plus presenting to the conference on these topics. For my feelings, things went over very well, even for this very highend audience. Jason Rodriguez of SI was in the following panel on digital cinematophy, co-presenting with Colorspace, Sony and JVC, most of the questions were regarding the SI-2K. It was a good event.

Emanuel
02-02-2007, 09:55 PM
LOL

I've been trying with such congratulations quotes (though fully deserved and sincerely addressed :beer:) but...David, you're completely right! One doubt: where? Where's the thread or the place? :)

Now, I can get a place for that, here is:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=849332#post849332

It's open 'cause we all know. There is demand. Especially when the offer now is below $1K.

Thanks agwah for the push!

Ari Presler
02-27-2007, 11:17 PM
We have posted a few full res frames from the first Episodes being shot for STIMTV's Boss of Glory:

http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/gallery_stillimages.html

If you havnt seen them yet, there are also a few video clips

http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/gallery_footage.html


http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/Thumbnails/BossOfGlory_1.jpg

David Newman
02-28-2007, 09:51 AM
Ari,

It is nice to have some full size images, yet that only have a Bi-linear demosaic on them. Set the scrub and render demosaic filters to 5x5 Adaptive and repost the images - you will get more resolution, add remove the minor color moire patterns.

David Newman
02-28-2007, 03:22 PM
The next release will have the frame exports use the render demosaic rather than the scrub demosaic.

Ari Presler
03-17-2007, 12:26 AM
Shoot. Edit. Deliver!

At NAB, we will be shooting, editing and delivering the most powerful IT-integrated Digital Cinema camera and workflow toolset the industry has ever seen. This will include eye popping capture, framing, focus and exposure controls, slow-motion and time-lapse recording, continuity framestore, multi-format image export, live 3D-LUT color correction, film stock visualization, metadata integration, project file management, gigabit networking, 1080P HDMI monitoring, direct-to-disk CineFormRAW recording and much, much more....

The NAB2007 countdown has begun!

zeke
03-19-2007, 01:36 PM
Sounds great Ari. Good luck. I can't make it this year. drat.

Joe C.

Ari Presler
04-13-2007, 11:10 PM
In case you have not seen all the latest Silicon Imaging news releases from the past two days, here is a new easy way to get to our Digital Cinema web site :

www.si-2k.com (http://www.si-2k.com/)

MovieSwede
04-16-2007, 04:21 AM
Really like the the new design of the camerabody