HVX-200 as 2nd unit to a Varicam

[PunkMetalDrummer17]

Would the hvx-200 (with a 35mm lense adapter) match up to the Varicam in comparision? I'm going to be shooting a feature, for theatrical release (hopefully) and was going to use 3 or 4 Varicams to shoot multiple angles at one time. Now if the HVX-200 would match up close enough I'll drop the 4th varicam and use two or three HVX-200s in addition to the 3 varicams.

What do you guys think... Could the HVX come close enough to the Varicam for it to work on the big screen?

(So I guess the title should be 4th, 5th and 6th unit.)

[Justin Marx]

I just wouldn't go as far as having a scene that covers two actors, and cut from the VCAM to the HVX.. That might not match.. The HVX/Mini 35 is still not great.. but there are other adapters out there.. I'd just use the HVX's for scenes where it doesn't have to match exactly..

The only way is to go shoot a test.. Others can assume, but REMEMBER when we ASSUME, that makes an ASS outta U and ME..........
If your renting 3 Varicams, the rental place should bend over backwards to give you some time to preform a test.. At least they do here in FL..

Tell us whatcha do..

- - Justin

[Slimothy]

Why do you need 4 cameras? Lots of action where one take is required?

[pmark23]

What do you think about using the Varicam for interviews (I'm talking about docs here), and the HVX for landscapes, cut-aways, etc (ie: shots not directly related to the Varicam footage).

Will they cut together okay? Anyone tried yet?

[PunkMetalDrummer17]

Why do you need 4 cameras? Lots of action where one take is required?
I have a lot of technical camera moves, Glidecam shots that carry from one scene to the next, ect.; so I'm setting up say two cameras in one room, one on the Glidecam, and then the 4th in the other room to cut to from the Glidecam once we enter the room. However, with the 3 HVXs that would allow me to cover more angles in each room..... so we don't have to keep doing the glidecam move just get a different angle in the first or second room.

[endmarks]

I have used the hvx as a 4th camera with cinealta's. according to editorial it cuts just fine. Keep in mind, your best results will be to use the hvx cameras for the tighter angles. the wider the lens the more fall off. also, if your style has a lot of quick cuts, then I wouldn't worry about it one bit. But the most important element is good lighting.

[PunkMetalDrummer17]

I also have two big fight scenes that I have to cover.... They take up 10 pages in the script but in the end that's just in word format.... It'll probably be longer on screen. There's 17 people in one of the fight scenes, I have parallel action and dialouge... It's really going to be quite intresting to shoot.

[HDkilledFILM.]

I'd be okay to come out with my HVX200 + M2 adapter if you wanted to to get some test footage. Where in NJ do you live, is it close to Philly?

[willshipp]

if you have a vari cam then use the varicam and not the hvx. The Hvx is a nice camera but you dont have the same size ccd chip nore do you have a the better lens with the hvx. use the sony cina-alta f900

[dougspice]

There has to be a better place to put that budget than into 4 cameras + operators. It sounds to me like you'll just be stepping all over each other.

But to help answer your question, maybe you could talk to Evin about seeing some of the footage he shot to match a Viper.

[PunkMetalDrummer17]

Well thankfully, the operators are free from my school and if I used say two cameras then the schedule would have to increase, which in the end gives me the same or higher price. More days, other equipment more expensive because of a longer rental period, more for the cast for more shooting days.

[dougspice]

On paper, sure. But for most shoots, you don't actually gain any time by having multiple cameras, at least not without sacrificing quality. Your lighting and framing decisions get compromised and you're back to breaking even, if that. Don't you think most Hollywood movies would use the technique all the time, if it made sense?

Maybe it suits your project, I guess I don't really know. But it doesn't suit most.

[Dave Lezynski]

We have used the HVX cut into F900 material for ABC's "Sons & Daughters" quite successfully and the HVX sequences have made air. The Improv nature of the program did encourage us to use the 3 Main Battle F900s with additional help from at least one HVX. There were some shots that were only possible with HVX. The DP, Scott Williams, an incorrigible experimenter, and I have decided that perhaps 5 cameras is the best way to cover a semi-scripted "Experiment". Yes, the crowd of camera operators can be a bit of a cluster F.....k, but the Actors and Operators Dance is a thing to behold. Magic Moments, if you will. If the show is renewed, Fred Goss, the Exec Producer, is stoked with the possibilities. Scott Williams is currently shooting a Touchstone show in Vancouver w/ F950s/SRW1 and HVX. Results are excellent. A little courage, technical preperation and a willing Post Department can be awesome. The options of HVX, HD100, XLH1, Z1 are changing everything. The Stigma of small format bias' are Kaput. Be mentally elastic and have courage.
Dave Lezynski
Digital Vision Engineer IATSE600
lezynski@mac.com

[Barry_Green]

Hey Dave, thanks for the report. I've added your contributions to the "Who's Using The HVX" thread.

[PunkMetalDrummer17]

On paper, sure. But for most shoots, you don't actually gain any time by having multiple cameras, at least not without sacrificing quality. Your lighting and framing decisions get compromised and you're back to breaking even, if that. Don't you think most Hollywood movies would use the technique all the time, if it made sense?

Maybe it suits your project, I guess I don't really know. But it doesn't suit most.

Hell if Robert Rodriguez can pull out two people in the middle of a shot in Once Upo a Time in Mexico, I could pull out a second camera from a shot. Just set-up the one where you'll need to get the background of where the other camera will cover.... shoot a plate for 5 seconds and then set-up the other camera...... so then in post you still frame a frame from those 5 seconds and lay it over the other camera in the shot. And if there's movement there is a thing called Motion Control.

[dougspice]

Well, now you're talking about using it for visual effects, which is something else entirely. Hell, if you've got enough budget to do motion control, go ahead and use as many cameras as your producer will let you! You should come back here with the results, though.

[DavidBeier]

I don't know what kind of budget you have but one tends to think digital fixes are easier to accomplish then they actually are.

[HDkilledFILM.]

I don't know what kind of budget you have but one tends to think digital fixes are easier to accomplish then they actually are.

100% true, expect to have your budget almost trippled if you expect to do motion control and cgi fixes. I'm still trying to get a cheap flame artist, which is like saying I want a cheap nosejob.

[PunkMetalDrummer17]

I'm thinking about dropping the Varicams and going with SDX900s..... Would the HVX-200 match up to this or would it surpass it ? How would the 900s transfer to film?

[dougspice]

No offense, but it seems like you're in over your head here. If you're really talking about operating at this budget level, you shouldn't be asking these kinds of questions on a message board. Go talk to your post house and have them figure out a workflow with you. Otherwise you're just asking for trouble.

[Loki]

is this even a real project?

all this talk of mutliple varicams has me skeptical..

but i could be wrong..

[PunkMetalDrummer17]

I've decided i'm going to be using SDX900s instead of Varicams... especially since it's my first feature... I saw a trailer from a movie shot on the SDX900 and it looks great... And the person that told me about it said they saw it in theaters and that it looked good. So I'm going to be using 3 or 4 SDX900s and 3 or 4 HVX-200s...

[dougspice]

is this even a real project?

all this talk of mutliple varicams has me skeptical..

but i could be wrong..

Yeah, I'm taking this stance now too. Oh well, whatever gets a few laughs.

[AshG]

I'm thinking about dropping the Varicams and going with SDX900s..... Would the HVX-200 match up to this or would it surpass it ? How would the 900s transfer to film?


SDX900 upconverted looks terrific, IMHO better than native HVX footage. There is some info on the net about several features that have been shot on the SDX. There was one called "Smile" which I saw in HD and on film where the SDX footage was indistiguishable from the native HD footage, even to the engineers at the post house after it was upconverted... very very impressive and you get that 2/3" CCD DOF and low light capability.



ash =o)

[Justin Marx]

Dude, it seems as if you have the $$ to shoot this, so why don't you follow my advice from the FIRST POST..

Go to your rental house, get the Varicam and the HVX and TEST IT OUT!
Learn from others mistakes and make sure you personally know that it will work, rather than listening to people on a message board..
If you will be renting this many cameras (which will be about $2000-3000 a day) they will be HAPPY to let you test it out!

BETTER YET, just rent 1 camera.. If you've never done a feature, getting 2 cameras to stay out of each others way is a pain, 4, HAHAHA.. 1/2 your shot will have your lights in them, or will just look like crap because you moved your lights to get out of the shot..

- - Justin

[J P]

On paper, sure. But for most shoots, you don't actually gain any time by having multiple cameras, at least not without sacrificing quality. Your lighting and framing decisions get compromised and you're back to breaking even, if that. Don't you think most Hollywood movies would use the technique all the time, if it made sense?
100% True. This is a feature film, not a sit com, right?