Price...

[Jannard]

I have seen many people speculate about the price of the RED camera. None are correct. You will all need to wait until the 24th to hear what it is. I will decide the final price on the 23rd. I'm giving myself all the time possible to determine pricing based on as much information as I can gather to the 11th hour.

The only thing I suggest is that you ignore all speculation because it is just that.

We are working night and day to make a visit to our booth worth the effort. We are excited times 10 to show what we have put together. I hope to see many of you there and meet you personally.

Jim

[Spartacus]

Will you guys also come to the IBC in Septembre?

[MarcusX]

Jim, can you give us an idea how the retail price of the red camera comes together (like 30% hardware, 40% production, 20% development, 10% red paint)?

[jrv3034]

Hmmm, nobody's suggested a $1.99 price yet, maybe THAT'S it!!! :costumed-smiley-047

Seriously, I'm so jealous right now of everybody that'll be at NAB. I look forward to checking out the RED website first thing on the 24th!

[Terence Lehane]

On Hd for Indies they were saying the RED camera would really be of interest to the people reading that blog, i.e. indies with not much money up front but with plenty of ideas.
Of course this camera would be probably worth $90,000 but anything above $20,000 is out of the reach of 90% of indies. Could this camera possibly be going for $15,000?
Then of course you have the whole editing thing, raid systems etc.
It's going to be a fascinating story to follow but will we really be involved?

[Jeremy Ordan]

I just think it is impressive that Jim is basically saying you will know the price at NAB. This is going to be a revolutionary tool and I can't wait for the posts from everyone attending NAB.

-Jeremy

[roxics]

TheYankee
I agree. RED is very early in development, so to be able to set a price this early takes some guts considering what could change or be learned by the development team over the next... however many months.

Hey maybe we should all throw in $100 and take a guess at the final price. Then whoever is closest gets a RED, or at least the money towards a RED. Yeah I know that's a bad idea. :)

[J.R. Hudson]

With Jim's new post I got a tingle of excitement; like, will my wife allow me to get it ?

Damn it Jim ! I'm an indiependent filmmaker not a scientist!

[vidled]

...like, will my wife allow me to get it ?

Errr, what was that threshold again? Wasn't it $5000?
:)

[Jarred Land]

Ha ha ha you guys.. its only a week away. Im sure we will all be very happy on what Jim determines to be the final price. He wouldn't be here if he knew we would be dissapointed.

[vidled]

Ha ha ha you guys.. its only a week away. Im sure we will all be very happy on what Jim determines to be the final price. He wouldn't be here if he knew we would be dissapointed.

Agreed!
Although, from experience, there will be THOSE who WILL be disappointed no matter what the price will be; luckily THEY don't matter much! :)

[Blaine]

Agreed!
Although, from experience, there will be THOSE who WILL be disappointed no matter what the price will be; luckily THEY don't matter much! :)
He could give it away and somebody would bitch that they had to pay for attachments. :violin:

[Jarred Land]

Errr, what was that threshold again? Wasn't it $5000?
:)

ha ha .. well lets hope they make it pretty enough to pass the wife test. I think if it looks cool enough, and not like a boring piece of camera, the Wife will go for it.

And tell her she looks better at 4k :)

[Isaac_Brody]

Agreed!
Although, from experience, there will be THOSE who WILL be disappointed no matter what the price will be; luckily THEY don't matter much! :)

What? Only 4K? What about 8K resolutions? What about future proofing? And how about 3d? :thumbsup:

[Jarred Land]

What? Only 4K? What about 8K resolutions? What about future proofing? And how about 3d? :thumbsup:

thats what pixel shifting is for.. ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

[vidled]

ha ha .. well lets hope they make it pretty enough to pass the wife test. I think if it looks cool enough, and not like a boring piece of camera, the Wife will go for it.

And tell her she looks better at 4k :)

You're a GENIUS Jarred:
THAT'S WHY IT'S RED!!!! IT'S HUDSON's WIFE's FAVOURITE COLOUR!!!!
:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

[J.R. Hudson]

LOL!

I figure $5000.00 plus the $2000.00 I get for selling the DVX !

$7000.00 !

Yes!

[Jarred Land]

LOL!

I figure $5000.00 plus the $2000.00 I get for selling the DVX !

$7000.00 !

Yes!

when your in Vegas John.. dont try the slot machines. :)

We all know its not going to be a 7k camera. I think the current guess most people agree on is somewhere between 20k and 50k. Any lower than that, people will be doing backflips. Any higher, and I think they loose 90% of the market here.

[Blaine]

somewhere between 20k and 50k.
That was my guess. But I guess we'll know for sure in a week. :thumbsup:

[vidled]

And then there's the issue of lenses too, although from the way I heard it in that podcast, RED is distancing themselves a bit from the "own lenses" issue.
And that wouldn't surprise me; I'd rather they concentrate on the cam and make a good support for exisitng lenses (B4, etc.) than to "waste" time on lenses.
Unless, of course, there is ample development capacity at Oakley.

[TimurCivan]

I have a funny feeling, the camera itself is not going to be that expensive, but the peripherals are going to be what sepreates the boys from the men. (financially speaking) I dont think it will have its own recording system built in. he seemed to suggest it will be computer capture. Therefore, they dont have to worry about all that technology. they just have to focus on a Chip, a lens and a Digital Signal Processor.

That shouldnt really be too much.

[Denis Haineault]

From Jim:

I have seen many people speculate about the price of the RED camera. None are correct.
From Jarred:

I think the current guess most people agree on is somewhere between 20k and 50k.
I would have to conclude that 20k-50k is not it then.

ha ha...it's fun to speculate.

[androbot2084]

Actually if you want to talk about 8k, NHK broadcasting of Japan has already built a 32 megapixel 8k camera which is 7680 x 4320 pixels or 32 megapixels and has 16 HD-SDI outputs. Such footage has already been broadcasted uncompressed over fiber optic cable using a 16 wave multiplex. However the system is still experimental and is not ready for delivery yet. If you want to talk about 3D, holographic 8k video cameras have been proposed that have 20 layers of 32 megapixel video capture for a total of 640 megapixels. Since the Red codec uses about 10 megabits per secound of bandwidth for each megapixel a fiber optic cable that has a bandwidth of 6400 megabits per second or 6.4 gigabits per second is needed. If your office is wired with this much bandwidth you will not have to tear out the walls for another 20 years.

[Sony FX1 User]

The red will cost i think more then $115000,-
it is the future cam for S.Spielberg and G.Lucas
Think, it is one of the furst 4k cams ever.

[Aaron Koolen]

This is really going to be interesting, especially now that Silicon Imaging have announced there new camera.

If SI's ballpark prices are realistic, and Red are aiming to be a flexible and expandable system, we could see a 10K camera from Red with really basic options for us low end guys. Basically just a body with 4:2:2 only and we need to supply our own HD, EVF/Monitor and Lens (Hopefully with a 35mm SLR mount).

At least I'm pretty sure I'm not going to have DVX100B buyers remorse when i get my cam in a few days :)

[Barry_Green]

As long as people are speculating, I think it's a given that the RED product will be at least $20k, body-only. And fully configured with lens, viewfinder, power supply, and everything else, a full-fledged production package will likely come in around $30k to $35k.

Still obscenely affordable for what it is. Half the price of the Varicam body-only, 1/3 the price of an F900 body-only.

If it's anywhere near the prices I just guessed at, then XDCAM-HD will be XD.O.A.-CAM (or, XDCAM-HD.O.A.?)

You're not gonna see a $5,000 RED. Not this year. Maybe five years from now, but not this year. But when you look at the $20k-$30k price bracket, that's where all the action is this year at NAB, and when you look at what's coming out in that price bracket (Thomson/Grass Valley Infinity, JVC GY-HD7000U, XDOA-CAM, HPC2000, etc), Red really could be a total revolutionary winner-take-all in that price bracket.

[Forrest Schultz]

haha, everyone just needs to keep their pants on for 6 more days

[vamshi]

Thanx...

you know if the camera costs more than 20,000$...just forget about the camera..there is one more camera coming up with 2k from silicon and been exposing at NAB, and the price is below 20,000$. As an independent filmmaker i feel 2k is enough for digital editing, and that is also out of budget price, i know red might be giving 4k , if it is targeting indi film makers its price should be lower. if it is targeting high class budget films...no importance at all..already there are panavision, dalsa, and also from arri. digital..and one more to the list is RED.

"There is a story..once upon a time there used to be a fox. and it likes grapes..it usually goes to a farm and tries to get grapes..everytime the fox goes to farm it comes empty handed.because its not possible to the fox to grab the grapes which are on greater heights.. it tries to jump ..but cant make it...fox get wexed up and thinks...the grapes are sour taste."

First of all the fox shouldn't try for the grapes that are not possible to get.
secondly, its waste of time thinking about it.

Here what i mean to say is instead of spending a lot of money on production only on cameras to buy. its better to improvise the talent on story, music and screenplay under the budget of 20000$. After all "28 days later " is made with dv 720*480, which looked great on big screens where the camera cost only 3000 $, Till now is also inspirational.At the same price there are many hdv's are coming , with better resolutions and has 24p scan.Well who cares , its all the visual view that counts to make a good film.

What i feel from my point of view.If Camera prices exceeds $5000, then its very hard to make a budgeted film .So what i mean to say is better be in our financial budgets as low as possible and at times not to say "GRAPES ARE SOUR TASTE".

hail inde film makers.

vamshi

[Jarred Land]

vamshi.. it makes perfect sense what you just said.. we all should be able to make oscar winning movies with a $400 handycam.

Problem is, well first that has never happened, but second, we all know the guy with the fastest car USUALLY wins the race.

[Jeremy Ordan]

People want this camera to be $5000 because that is something that people can afford to own. Personally, if this thing lives up to the expectation then it is really a Varicam killer. So even if it costs $20,000-$30,000 or even $40,000 fully outfitted, then it is taking out a camera that costs twice as much. That is a huge leap forward.

It would be like Farrari coming out with a new car at $50,000 that replaces the $100,000 model in style, function, speed, and use.

Or in simpler terms, it would be like Panasonic releasing a DVX100 that did all the things that the DVX did but shoot in HD, 16x9 native, and be customizable for $1500.

When you look at the market, true, it might be expensive, but look at what it has the potential to replace. That is a huge leap forward. I haven't really been paying a lot of attention to these threads because regardless if this camera comes in at $50,000 or $5,000 I am still happy with my DVX and it works great for me right now. The Red or the HVX will be a step for me in 2 years at the earliest, until then I just watch with a gear dork fascination.

-Jeremy

[Blaine]

until then I just watch with a gear dork fascination.
May I quote you on that? I love that line and fully intend to steal it for a story sometime...:thumbsup:

[Cheesesailor77]

most of what you said isn't wrong, but if you think 28 days later looksed great on the big screen, i know a lot of ppl who would disagree with you.

C'mon, give me red for $400, you know you want to. lets make this happen! ;)

[Jarred Land]

most of what you said isn't wrong, but if you think 28 days later looksed great on the big screen, i know a lot of ppl who would disagree with you.)

I didnt think 28 days later looked that great on the small screen.

[Jeremy Ordan]

I didnt think 28 days later looked that great on the small screen.


That's funny...

The truth is you can make a movie on anything, but pure and simple, a better tool really does allow you to do more. You can't dispute that, right?

-Jeremy

[dvpixl]

true true...

admit it people. we're all addicted to digital cinema. seriously... this moment lasts only until it goes mainstream.
I'd rather shoot with RED than shoot with 35mm, why? because the thrill of achieving the look close to 35mm with something that isn't 35mm - and being able to show it off to people who have none. that's exciting.
on that note, 20k is too much. can we finance it?

[Jeremy Ordan]

can we finance it?

Angels and demons... 2nd mortgage and Red or... well what's the alternative?

-Jeremy

[Jarred Land]

Angels and demons... 2nd mortgage and Red or... well what's the alternative?

-Jeremy

alternative? Red of course.

http://www.levkarmi.com/gallery/images/red%201.gif

[DavidBeier]

I didnt think 28 days later looked that great on the small screen.

Ditto.

I think people are right when they say the camera isn't the most important thing but anyone who thinks it's not important is dead wrong. It's a tool and one can do more with better tools. It's that simply.

For me, anything over 15k would put me out of the ballpark. I suppose I could always rent but we all know it's not the same. What makes the HVX200 and the other under-10k HD cameras so amazing is that we can now actually own HD cameras. We can take them home with us an experiment untill the cows come home. I've never felt really comfortible renting. I know I'll have to get used to it (and I have in film school since all my stuff comes from out equipment room) but it's not the same as owning a camera and I know really being able to own one would make all the diffference. Imagine if an artist had to rent his brushes.

[Cheesesailor77]

when the camera is the price of a new sports car, its too much. I'm not saying tis not worth it, but if its $20,000 no one here can afford it and im not sure why Jim and Jarred would spend so much effort here, so lets hope that's wrong, even if it's silly.

i was more interested in 4:4:4 and veriable frame rates than 4k anyway. Any of the new HD camera have this?

[DavidBeier]

All I really want is a slightly sharper HVX200.

[dvpixl]

I've been so attached to panasonic. I feel like a traitor....

[Jeremy Ordan]

but if its $20,000 no one here can afford it and im not sure why Jim and Jarred would spend so much effort here, so lets hope that's wrong, even if it's silly.

That's not really true. There are a lot of people who could most likely pony up that sort of cash. There are always stafford loans (education loans) because as a graduate student you're eligible for $18,500 :)

I don't know, I think that if it is that complete revolution it doesn't matter if you can afford it right away because that is why there is layaway, savings, and blackmail of government officials with pictures of them dressed up like women being spanked in the attic by a burly man named Butch.

-Jeremy

[dvpixl]

if IT IS as robust and versatile as it should be... if anyone heard the podcast....
then i would be totally comfortable buying it later on rather than it's first release. anyway, you should let things settle down first, right?

[vamshi]

Well i accept you want to win the race...Here my concept is not with driving a sports car...Let me answer this...is any digital camera's footage exists right today that looks similar to movie cameras take it 16mm/35mm m 24p is a choppy business, the light altitude on video never matches a 16mm/35mm black levels. I am not encourage or discourage about red here...the fact is OLD MUSTANG is better than MITSUBISHI EVOLUTION/SUBARU/OR ANY OTHER. Well to my knowledge., camera alone doesnt lead anybody to oscar, and a true inde film maker never expect an oscar,he explores only the talent in the art of filmmaking.

even super 16mm camera costs only 5000$.

vamshi

[Jarred Land]

when the camera is the price of a new sports car, its too much. I'm not saying tis not worth it, but if its $20,000 no one here can afford it and im not sure why Jim and Jarred would spend so much effort here, so lets hope that's wrong, even if it's silly.

i was more interested in 4:4:4 and veriable frame rates than 4k anyway. Any of the new HD camera have this?

well we don't know the price yet.. but 20k for people that are making money with their camera's isn't that much money. Sure, its alot, and alot of people will need to finance it. Its not the kinda camera that people that don't make money doing what they do buy. If it does turn out to be 20k, it competes with cameras 10x the price. Just like when the dvx came out with 24p it did what alot of cameras 10x the price did.

Alot of people have spent 20k on a fully geared hvx. And paid it off in 2 weeks. People got hired just because they had the HVX.

It's an odd concept, but owning the Red will make your day rate go up. And you as an operator will get hired just because you have the camera, even if they don't really want you. Its just the way it goes. Producers are smarter now-adays, they pay attention to acquisition formats and cameras.

[Blaine]

even super 16mm camera costs only 5000$.
Then you've got the cost of film and processing and the uncertainty of whether you got the shot until the processed film comes back. I cannot wait to be able to get a RED. :)

[Cheesesailor77]

Well i accept you want to win the race...Here my concept is not with driving a sports car...Let me answer this...is any digital camera's footage exists right today that looks similar to movie cameras take it 16mm/35mm m 24p is a choppy business, the light altitude on video never matches a 16mm/35mm black levels. I am not encourage or discourage about red here...the fact is OLD MUSTANG is better than MITSUBISHI EVOLUTION/SUBARU/OR ANY OTHER.

even super 16mm camera costs only 5000$.

vamshi

I have no idea what the heck you just said :)

[Barry_Green]

but if its $20,000 no one here can afford it
? Actually a lot of us here could afford it, and there are some who couldn't afford not to have it. This thing will rent for easily $1000/day. Rent it for 20 days and it's free. How can one *not* afford it?

Obviously Red isn't aimed at being someone's personal video camera, but then again neither is the HVX (and the DVX really shouldn't be). They're all business tools, and the business case for all of them is quite strong.

[Barry_Green]

All I really want is a slightly sharper HVX200.
Set your Detail Level to +5.

:P

[dvpixl]

so what do most of you do that you can make it back in 2 weeks? sheesh.

[Jarred Land]

lets not get to emotional on the whole price thing till we find out next monday what we are really about.

[Cheesesailor77]

rrrrrrrraaaaaaaAAAAAAAHHHHH! PRRRRIIIIIIIIIICE! >:O

[dvpixl]

yeah true...and I can't even afford the HVX!

[Barry_Green]

so what do most of you do that you can make it back in 2 weeks? sheesh.

I don't know about making back a full Red package in two weeks... Jarred was talking about an HVX package. I got my HVX package in time for a $17,000 set of teleprompter commercials, which left enough profit to pay off the HVX+Mac system in full on the first weekend.

With a Red, I'd expect my day rate for DIT & camera rental to be at least $1500/day. Which is probably low, considering F900's still go for $1200/day here without a tech, so -- well, I did say "at least", right? Anyway, if I could book just 14 days with it, that would be (14 x 15 = $21,000). So yeah, two weeks of work would just about get you there. And then it's free. And every day you book with it from then on out is gravy.

Maybe it would command $2000/day depending on how in-demand and rare the Red is, so maybe I could recover the costs faster.

Even at $40,000 it'd be a great business move.

At $100,000 -- eh, I don't know. A hundred large is a lot to risk on an unknown/unproven package. But at $20k it's a no-brainer, and at $40k for a full package it still would probably be a very good idea.

(obviously this all assumes that it lives up to its billing, of course. Actually, you know what? It doesn't even have to live up to its billing! Just give us a CineAlta-caliber camera and the business model still works!)

Furthermore, this is obviously not a start-up business. You have to have contacts and know people and know that you'll get hired. Anyone taking out a loan for $40,000 on an unproven camera is... well, kind of nuts, actually. You don't want to be behind fifty grand of debt and have your sole business plan being "hi guys, anyone need to rent a Red?"

[Jarred Land]

so what do most of you do that you can make it back in 2 weeks? sheesh.

The day rate in most cities with camera is usually between 500 bucks for mid budget indy stuff or 1000 bucks a day for non-union Studio stuff. More or less of course. And thats with a HVX. The day rate on something like the Red will be arond 800 bucks alone.. just for the camera rental, not including you :)

[D_and_G]

I'm trying not to pay attention to any of the debate on price. Mostly successful :beer:

Frankly, if I can afford it, I don't care what the market is or isn't... 20K is a lot of dough, but if it achieves the best image possible (with collaborative talent), then it's one less obstacle (especially for my distributor/s)...

I've been waiting for this day. If it comes to fruition it will be a virtual revolution for some. I really don't care if people think I'm crazy. They said the same thing when I started my small business.

This camera is a bigger canvas to paint on, and I for one, can't wait. I don't know why, but this feels like Michaelangelo being led into the Sistine Chapel, and the Pope saying "Here, you can paint this"... (forgive the palaver, I'm excited :grin:)



Jim, besides putting a Guiness tap in my home office, I've not looked forward to anything more. :beer:

[MarcusX]

Some thoughts about the price:

People like to compare the red camera with the Cinealta or Varicam. But I don't think Mr. Sony and Mrs. Panasonic had the Indies or even weddingshooters in mind when they constructed their cameras.
They tried to make the best camera they can think of as a replacement for those 16/35mm cams for professionals, who can afford it (for rental).
They never expected guys like us would BUY their cams.

I believe the red guys have a different approach, they want to make the camera affordable AND good.
Why even talk to people who are going to buy a used car for $5000 when the only thing you can offer is a Maybach?

[Stephen W]

I reckon a lot of the people saying "I can't afford above $20k" etc. would think again if the camera were, say, $25k.

Hey, did anyone notice that Jim has us all talking about the price again?

[TimurCivan]

The day rate in most cities with camera is usually between 500 bucks for mid budget indy stuff or 1000 bucks a day for non-union Studio stuff. More or less of course. And thats with a HVX. The day rate on something like the Red will be arond 800 bucks alone.. just for the camera rental, not including you :)

Whats a average day rate for DVX?

[Sony FX1 User]

Jarred, would you buy a red if it is let me see, 20 or 25k?

Robert

[sbryan]

Why does this forum sub-heading say "Latest on the new 4k camera"? The figures I see in here are anywhere from 5k-100k.

[HenryK]

Jarred, would you buy a red if it is let me see, 20 or 25k?

Robert
I would, because it means I wont have to buy the next five $5K cameras in the next few years.

Let me see, in the last few years I bought:

Canon EX1
Sony VX3
Canon XL1
Pana DVX100A
Sony PD150
JVC HD10u
Sony Z1U
JVC HD100

It reminds me of a friend I critized once for wearing a Rolex. I said, why such an expensive watch? He repplied, how many watches have you bought in the last 15 years? I think I said 5 or so... He said, this is the only watch I'll ever own... seems pretty affordable to me.

He was right.

Henry

[jrv3034]

Why does this forum sub-heading say "Latest on the new 4k camera"? The figures I see in here are anywhere from 5k-100k.
"4K camera" means 4K resolution, not price. The RED camera will shoot at 720p, 1080p, 2K and 4K resolutions, or pixel count. The price will be anywhere from $10,000 to $100,000 depending on who you ask.

[Daniel Skubal]

I don't think it's worth speculating the price. Jim Jannard has said on multiple occasions that it would be geared towards us, I am confident that whatever the price, it will be very fair. Think about the HVX... sweet camera, right? Now think about the HVX on STEROIDS. That's RED. For an estimated double in price and four times the resolution, I think it's worth it for serious filmmakers.

[Justyn]

Will there be a prototype at NAB? Or a big hunk of wood... Man, I longed for that hunk of HVX wood when I saw it last year... ahhh.


Passing the wife test will be fun. She passed the HVX and if I continue to make the bacon then the Red will be next. Atleast that's how I'm deluding my self in front of the almight WIFE. She's the one with the real job anyway.

[Stephen W]

Will there be a prototype at NAB? Or a big hunk of wood... Man, I longed for that hunk of HVX wood when I saw it last year... ahhh.


If it's not made of Meccano, I'll be very unhappy :(

[Denis Haineault]

...For me, HVX (price) range is where it's at. Geared. :)
Well probably not fully geared but if the "base" model of Red (if there is such a thing) is in the HVX price range, then Red would pretty much eliminate the competition.

Of course many people here are professionals, and spending ~50k+ for an awesome camera makes sense...I have no problem with that at all. Myself on the other hand, I'm a "serious hobbyist" but I do try to aim for quality equipment as much as possible. I'm not kidding myself thinking that the Red camera will be very inexpensive, but I'm nonetheless hopeful based on some comments I've seen from Jim that it may be more accessible than many of us are inclined to think.

*sigh* one more week.....just one more week !!

[joelnet]

admit it people. we're all addicted to digital cinema. seriously

I'll admit it. I'll switch up to Red if it's the coolest thing around at the time. Hey you gotta spend your money on something and I have ZERO brand loyalty. :-)

[TimurCivan]

I don't think it's worth speculating the price. Jim Jannard has said on multiple occasions that it would be geared towards us, I am confident that whatever the price, it will be very fair. Think about the HVX... sweet camera, right? Now think about the HVX on STEROIDS. That's RED. For an estimated double in price and four times the resolution, I think it's worth it for serious filmmakers.


i thought the HVX was a DVX on steiroids.... that makes the Red, what? a Mutant Dvx?

[DavidBeier]

^
A giant mutant DVX on steroids with a cocaine problem.

[Jarred Land]

^
A giant mutant DVX on steroids with a cocaine problem.

more like speed.

[FullRez]

As a 2K and 4K res camera I really see its target as a replacement for 35mm. Obviously not for weddings, etc. In that case it's price (which we are all speculating on) is very important.

The key to these lower priced cameras like the HVX is that it gives the non-studio film maker hope and opportunity to produce work that has a chance in the big boys playground. For independents the ability to own the camera and shoot here and there when time and budget permits is why we buy the sub 10K cameras. Sure we could have this same opportunity if we bought a F900 but most of us can't justify the price of ownership.

This camera needs to come in at a low price or as someone else said, it's just another F900, Arri Digital, Panavision Genesis, etc. F900's are actually starting to saturate the market and rates for rentals are going way down. You can get a weekly rental for 3K everywhere, in in some cases I've seen it down to 1K a week. Especially if you rent it for a few weeks (30 day Feature for example).

So what exactly is the target market of Red is really the question. Obviously directly tied into price. I would guess that Red would like to sell this for 10K if they could because I believe that is the true market, but unfortunately building materials will probably make this impossible - at least for the next few years.

[androbot2084]

Actually the Red camera will be an excellent camera for the wedding videographer who wants to also break into the lucrative still photography business. Frame grabs from conventional 1080p cameras do not offer enough resolution to be competitive for stilll photography. Frame grabs from the Red camera will offer plenty of resolution. With the Red camera high definition video and still photos can be captured simultaneously at such a high frame rate that it will be impossible to miss the shot.

[Emanuel]

That's funny...

The truth is you can make a movie on anything, but pure and simple, a better tool really does allow you to do more. You can't dispute that, right?

-Jeremy:thumbsup:

[dglasgal]

jeeezzz, stop taunting and teasing....

[MattinSTL]

The curiousity is killing me... at this point I think the price could be almost anything within reason (meaning $10k wouldn't surprise me).

Does anybody know the story of Britton? That was a guy who built his own motorcycle... the whole thing down to the engine! What's really crazy is that it was way faster then anything else in the world! He was racing it against factory Honda, Yamaha, etc teams and the thing made so much power that it was almost hard to control. If there was ever a case of David versus Goliath that was it.

My gut tells me Jannard is like Britton. I can't believe there would be all this fanfare if this thing wasn't going to be semi-affordable for lots of shooters. (not me, but lots)

[JonathanNelson]

The curiousity is killing me... at this point I think the price could be almost anything within reason (meaning $10k wouldn't surprise me).

Does anybody know the story of Britton? That was a guy who built his own motorcycle... the whole thing down to the engine! What's really crazy is that it was way faster then anything else in the world! He was racing it against factory Honda, Yamaha, etc teams and the thing made so much power that it was almost hard to control. If there was ever a case of David versus Goliath that was it.

My gut tells me Jannard is like Britton. I can't believe there would be all this fanfare if this thing wasn't going to be semi-affordable for lots of shooters. (not me, but lots)

It's funny, I was thinking of the story of John Britten. I was also thinking about an astrology teacher of mine who made his own telescope and the astrologer community were amazed by it's power + clarity. It looked like a wood box with a lens attached to front. He sold the thing for well over a 50k. It cost him almost nothing but labor and intelligence.

RED could end up being a sweet machine but I know it's going to be more then 10K. If it was priced at 10k, we would have to wait a while to just get a hold of one or just pay extra for it on ebay.

[Rocketeer]

The curiousity is killing me... at this point I think the price could be almost anything within reason (meaning $10k wouldn't surprise me).

Does anybody know the story of Britton? That was a guy who built his own motorcycle... the whole thing down to the engine! What's really crazy is that it was way faster then anything else in the world! He was racing it against factory Honda, Yamaha, etc teams and the thing made so much power that it was almost hard to control. If there was ever a case of David versus Goliath that was it.

My gut tells me Jannard is like Britton. I can't believe there would be all this fanfare if this thing wasn't going to be semi-affordable for lots of shooters. (not me, but lots)

If you know the story of the Britten bike you should check out Burt Munro and the film 'The World's Fastest Indian' not sure the DVD has been released yet but another great story of a Kiwi battler and motorcycle engineering madness.

Sorry for the OT reply, but hey got to promote New Zealand and let you know we're more than just blockbuster scenery.

[D_and_G]

What about Tucker ? They even made a movie about him with Jeff Bridges (underated if you ask me)

BTW - the price quoted will be in U.S dollars I'm assuming right ? Is there anyway you can put an approx. Canadian $ figure ? Or can you give your Canuck fans a break on the exchange? :grin:


:beer:

[PaPa]

alright guys, big news, my sources have discovered the retailing price of this new RED camera which will be out this coming july 2005

price will be $249.34 with a mail in rebate of $ 21.17


nice price.. good stuff man.

[Danilo Del Tufo]

After reading all this hypothesis, I want to express a little thought.
Cameras are a medium, the cost of this medium must be in a relationship at all the others things you need to make a movie.
I'd like to hear from Jim Jannard (or evr'yone else involved to build a camera) an honestly speaking, saying something:- "We know that evr'yone interested to make a movie, or a short film, needs to combine various elements: lighting, screenplay, editing, actors, music and spend all the time to make a valuable project.
We want the revolution. Ours idea of Revolution it's not build a camera with faboulous settings and a prohibitive price tag, because we know very well how a camera it's important but not so important in total. We've observed for years cameras having a prohibitive price tag - simple offering a quality that we have alright reached with digital cameras - and we know that if you are under a big company, renting them doing a calibrated and specific use with the amount of hundred of people was the only way to make a valuable project. Much of this project went bankrupt, they became uncompleted work.
This has killed various cinema projects, and results were hundred of hundred of commercial movies, without a soul.
This philosophy is behind ours idea of Revolution, we want contaminate the system with this idea."

I'd really like to hear a quote like this from Jim Jannard (or whatewer company), think about cellular telephones, when they hit the market had big prices, but when a lot of companies start to take the prices down, cellular telephones became an object used in daily life.

If I am into the shoes of Jim Jannard I'd like to say something like this, but hope a day hearing a guy say something like this.

Ciao Jim!

RE(volution)D(ay), think about it :)

[Emanuel]

After reading all this hypothesis, I want to express a little thought.
Cameras are a medium, the cost of this medium must be in a relationship at all the others things you need to make a movie.
I'd like to hear from Jim Jannard (or evr'yone else involved to build a camera) an honestly speaking, saying something:- "We know that evr'yone interested to make a movie, or a short film, needs to combine various elements: lighting, screenplay, editing, actors, music and spend all the time to make a valuable project.
We want the revolution. Ours idea of Revolution it's not build a camera with faboulous settings and a prohibitive price tag, because we know very well how a camera it's important but not so important in total. We've observed for years cameras having a prohibitive price tag, and we know that if you are under a big company, renting them doing a calibrated and specific use with the amount of hundred of people was the only way to make a valuable project. Much of this project went bankrupt, they became uncompleted work.
This has killed various cinema projects, and results were hundred of hundred of commercial movies, without a soul.
This philosophy is behind ours idea of Revolution, we want contaminate the system with this idea."

I'd really like to hear a quote like this from Jim Jannard (or whatewer company), think about cellular telephones, when they hit the market had big prices, but when a lot of companies start to take the prices down, cellular telephones became an object used in daily life.

If I am into the shoes of Jim Jannard I'd like to say something like this, but hope a day hearing a guy say something like this.

Ciao Jim!You have a filmmaker soul, Danilo.

And that's why despite the 2K feature, I opened, first, a thread regarding the new Sillicon Imaging/Cineform camera, afterwards, another one (related to another new manufacturer) following the mouvement.

Precisely.

EDIT -- Both threads are now@other cameras forum:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=52

[Danilo Del Tufo]

Thanks Emanuel! :) Somethin' of revolutionary is in the air!
Hope Jim thinks the same, Jim become a part of us! Just condivide ours passion! We need money only to buy the food! The inner nature of humanity it's only express itself to help each other!
Jim, Fight with us!

[Emanuel]

Yup, from a filmmaker's POV, there will be good to know that profile is the white side of the Force and this time the economics will win as the american way of life as the american dream manner. He conquered that. We hope that he helps us to have ours. And if yours, it will be the filmmaker's one -- why not? I compared himself to Lumière or Edison (to you american fellows)...

May the Force Be With You, Jim!

[Jannard]

When I took on this project it was to satisfy the eyes, mind and heart of shooters around the world. And not kill the wallet in the process. I guess we will all see on Monday if we have been successful.

Jim

[Danilo Del Tufo]

Thanks Jim, I really appreciate your beautiful words.
In another thread I've spoke about a movie that I've re-watched recently, It's called "Iron 3" directed by Kim Ki-Duk.
Maybe in Usa it's not so famous, but I'd want suggest to see it, despite you're busy now with work.
Watching this movie, it's an heart and soul experience.
If you read about the life of Kim Ki-Duk, and his way to make a movie, I'm sure that will reach your heart...
We need more movies like this, Jim!

This a legendary scene from the movie:

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/7021/10258hs.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hope to read your comments about it!
Ciao!

[J.R. Hudson]

I never thought I'd say this

But I hope this makes me sell my DVX and go RED

[D_and_G]

When I took on this project it was to satisfy the eyes, mind and heart of shooters around the world. And not kill the wallet in the process. I guess we will all see on Monday if we have been successful.

Jim I think I'm in love.

Monday is the day I put on the Beatle's "Revolution" song and read all day. I can here the refrain "so you want a revolution"... ok, enough Guiness for me.



Cheers.

[Emanuel]

When I took on this project it was to satisfy the eyes, mind and heart of shooters around the world. And not kill the wallet in the process. I guess we will all see on Monday if we have been successful.

JimI think I'm in love.You are not the only one... :D

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/7021/10258hs.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[J.R. Hudson]

Yes

Nothing sexier than making it with a chick only to have her actually be hanging on another dude

[Danilo Del Tufo]

John you made my day! LOL :)

[D_and_G]

LOL :beer:

Literally, making out with a married woman behind her husband's back :thumbsup:

[masada1903]

When I took on this project it was to satisfy the eyes, mind and heart of shooters around the world. And not kill the wallet in the process. I guess we will all see on Monday if we have been successful.

Jim

You know... My feeling is that even if Red ends up being HALF of what was initially bandied about, it will be a success. I mean, a 4K camera? C'mon, even the Arclight, which is one of the best theaters in the world, "only" uses a 2K digital projector in the Dome (and that projector is only about a year old.) Even if I can’t afford it personally, I’ll be thrilled because of what it represents in the struggle to democratize “film” making.

All this speculation makes my head hurt. For some reason we love to gravitate towards the pessimistic (ThinkSecret reporting that Red will cost 10.8 trillion dollars [body only, of course] is my personal fav.) All the negativity is really quite irritating. Yet, I cannot for the life of me pull myself away from reading it. It’s like crack. I know it’s not good for me, but man…

It’s just four days. Can’t we like, you know, wait four days to pass judgment? Give the man a chance. What could it possibly cost us to be open-minded?

[HenryK]

I think I'm in love.

Monday is the day I put on the Beatle's "Revolution" song and read all day.

I'll be playing "You make me feel brand new" by "Simply RED".

Hopefully I wont have to play "Money's to Tight" by the same band.

Henry

[Stephen W]

I won't be playing anything by Simply Red.

Ever.

[HenryK]

I won't be playing anything by Simply Red.

Ever.

You might simply buy RED.

[Stephen W]

You might simply buy RED.

Indeed.

:)

[DavidBeier]

You know... My feeling is that even if Red ends up being HALF of what was initially bandied about, it will be a success. I mean, a 4K camera? C'mon, even the Arclight, which is one of the best theaters in the world, "only" uses a 2K digital projector in the Dome (and that projector is only about a year old.) Even if I can’t afford it personally, I’ll be thrilled because of what it represents in the struggle to democratize “film” making.


I agree. If they released a cheaper version with only 2k and 4:2:2 color space it'd still blow everything else out of the water.

[im.thatoneguy]

I don't think it's worth speculating the price. Jim Jannard has said on multiple occasions that it would be geared towards us, I am confident that whatever the price, it will be very fair.

I'm most concerned about the price being fair. Fair is way out of my price range. ;)

[Cheesesailor77]

I'm most concerned about the price being fair. Fair is way out of my price range. ;)

exactly

[Spartacus]

I'm most concerned about the price being fair. Fair is way out of my price range. ;)

hehehe...