m2 Adapter Users - Satisified w/ your investment?

[rgdfilms]

This is a thread for both praise and constructive criticism regarding the M2 adapter -

Those of you that have used or purchased this adapter, please share your thoughts..

Is it worth the big expense, ($1000 for adapter, $300 for lenses, $1400 for onboard monitor) for the image you get over the stock HVX lens?

Do you see the M2 as total neccesity or would you consider it a luxury?

How many of you wanted the Cinemek but gave up?

I've been personally thinking of investing in one by the end of the summertime but still have my own reservations -

thanks DvxUDES !

:crybaby:

[FatBird19]

How many of you wanted the Cinemek but gave up?


I'm getting to that point.

[Steve Shovlar]

I would say I use the M2 about 80% of the time I am using the HVX200.

It took a bit of setting up when I owned the Sony FX1. I was using spacer tubes and getting abit of edge distortion. I am now happy to say all those problems have been completely resolved once I used it with the HVX. The secret is the get the lens of the HVX as close as possible to the acromat of the M2. As the HVX can focus down to a finger on the lens, there is no need for spacer tubes or anything. The image is sharp in the middle and sharp at the edges.

Is it worth $1000 for the indie package? I think it's worth $2000-3000 personally and have said before that Redrock are underselling a great product.

The results I have had with the HVX/M2 combo have been fantastic.

As for the Cinemek, I don't understand why folks are waiting. They have no product on the table, their original static adaptor was thrown out as not good enough, and whilst you are all waiting for them to release the new G35 with moving parts, others are buying the M2 and shooting today. Even the Cinemek website has taken off the forum, so it doesn't look good IMO. I hope to be proved wrong and they release a killer 35mm adaptor, but I am not holding my breath, and in the meantime Redrock go from strength to strength with a great looking Follow Focus out any day, as well as aMattebox plus other things on top!

If you do purchase an M2 you will not be disappointed, but I do suggest buying an external rechargable battery that plugs into the 12 volt socket and is bungied onto the side of the M2. It saves taking the M2 apart to change the battery, and also spins the GG slightly faster so there is no sign of spinning GG on the footage.

[Owen]

Steve -- do you have a link to the rechargeable battery you use?

My M2 arrived Saturday so I've only done a few hours of testing, but so far so great!

[Steve Shovlar]

http://www.global-batteries.com/product_info.php/cPath/10/products_id/1334
Works a treat. You will need to buy a few hair bungies to hold it in place.

http://www.steveshovlar.com/cam-003.jpg

[Poi Boy]

I'm with steve, great product at a bargain price. why wait for the g35 ? if they get it working the quality is going to be about the same but certainly not much better. Even the p+S at $10K isn't as good. For me it is the solution until red or some other single chip affordable camera comes along. I just saw this http://www.siliconimaging.com
Aloha
-A

[rgdfilms]

thanks guys for your thoughts, more are welcome of course!

The more you guys talk this thing up, the more I justify it in my mind to plunk down some cash whenever I get it..

I wish I could actually play with one before I bought

sounds like yer all happy!

[icicle22]

I know this is not exactly on the original topic but could some of you also add exactly what lenses you are using and how you like the results? I may invest in one of these units but I cannot afford prime lenses. I am wondering what relatively inexpensive 35mm lenses you have.

Thanks!

[Steve Shovlar]

Obviously the faster the lens the better. Normally I don't use any primes with my M2. You basically need three lenses.

Say for example you are going to use Nikon lenses, as they are the most popular mount. I use 17-35mm 2.8, a 35-70mm 2.8 and an 80-200mm 2.8 zooms, and those three cover all bases.

these three lenses are on Ebay all the time. The 17-35mm sells for £500ish
($800), the 35-70 for about $200, and the 80-200 for about $6-700.

[joelnet]

I think the M2 is cool. It certainly has an interesting look to the image. My frame edges are still a little disorted. It's not very noticeable unless you're staring at a resolution chart. I believe this is due to the Achromat. Perhaps a better one wouldn't introduce any distortion.

What I like best about it is that you can shoot up to F16 if you really wanted to. I prefer the look of my 50mm at about F4 to F5.6 so far. To me 1.4 is just too shallow for most things - it doesn't feel right to me. The more you stop down the more you need to zoom in (and reduce field of view) in order to avoid vignetting.

Hey, it's one more cool tool.

[rgdfilms]

ouch

[Ken_Chalk]

Nice rig! My HVX arrived last week and I love it! I ordered my M2 today and wanted to know monitor you chose and how much it set you back. Oh, and where did you get the bracket...looks very cool!

[HansK]

I have an M2 that I use with my DVX100a. I've written about my use with it on the forum before. But here's a quick wrap up:

Pros:

- Footage looks great
- Fairly simple device so easy to maintain
- Not large or heavy so usable run/gun or on steadicam

Cons:

- Pain in the arse to setup
- Problems with noise when using AC adaptor
- Softness at edges of image
- Alignment is tricky unless hard coupling is used

As for lenses, I am using: Nikon 50mm 1.8, Nikon 24mm 2.8, Sigma 55-200mm 1.4-5.6, Nikon Macro 55mm 2.8

At the moment I still recommend the Redrock M2. The problems with setup are worth the effort. And I stress that you really need to spend the time setting it up. The noise problem with the AC Adaptor (Redrock's own) is still a bit of an irritation.

[sean90291]

Cons:

- Pain in the arse to setup
- Problems with noise when using AC adaptor
- Softness at edges of image
- Alignment is tricky unless hard coupling is used



Just how bad is the "softness on the edges" issue? Haven't bought mine yet, but the raves for the M2 have me 99% convinced.

[escozooz]

DVX100a, M2, Mattebox
Sigma 15mm f2.8, Nikon 28mm f2.0, Nikkor 55 f1.2

As soon as the new ground glass came out the M2 is the best thing to happen to digital since the DVX. Although you are still shooting digital (reduced latitude, color space, etc.) the DOF really can make this less distracting.

I think the edge softness has a lot to do with the individual lenses. I used to shoot a cheaper Vivatar 28mm but I got a nice Nikon and it has no problems.

I don't know if you've seen this but this should make the buy descision for you.

http://www.redrockmicro.com/assets/images/CRW_9582_v2.jpg

:kali: competition

[dougspice]

$300 for lenses

Hahahahahaaaaaahahahahaha! You're funny.

I just got mine today, so I can definitely share the "setting it up is a pain in the ass" comments. Overall it's not too bad, but it's taken me about an hour to get the shims assembled and all that (the shim screws are too close to the casing, so you have to loosen them with 1/4 turns... really irritating but you only have to do it once.

I've had to set it aside for the moment but I hope to get it all tweaked and ready to go later this evening.

[dougspice]

Oh, and hey Steve, about how long does that battery last on the M2? I'm guessing significantly more than 2-3 hours.

[rgdfilms]

you're funny looking..

[dougspice]

You know you like my cop 'stache.

[HansK]

Just how bad is the "softness on the edges" issue?
It's not too bad. But don't expect edge-to-edge sharpness. I've only seen a few clips that are sharp edge-to-edge. Threads regarding this on the Redrock forums suggest several culprits:

1. Incorrect setup
2. Achromat
3. Zoom/Macro support of camera
4. Lens quality

or combinations thereof.

But, I believe it's the achromat and focusing on the back of the GG. I can clearly see when setting up the back focus that the center will be in focus and the edges just a slight bit out of focus. That's an indication of a back focus problem and has nothing to do with the lens.

I've adjusted and tweeked and still have the problem.

[HowdyDoo]

Couple questions...

First... it seems that everyone using an M2 has been going with Nikon lenses. Any reason for this? I want to purchase a Canon 20D package and then use those lenses with an M2 for video, but if there's an issue with the Canon lenses I might rethink everything.

Second... will the DVX M2 adapter fit the HVX? I want to buy an M2 for my DVX right now and it would be nice if it were compatible with the HVX I plan on purchasing down the road.

[dougspice]

People are using Nikon lenses because they're quality, they're cheap, and they're available everywhere. The lens mount hasn't changed in decades, so there are endless sources of high quality but comparably cheap manual focus lenses out there.

Canon lenses are fine, but do have one problem: there is no external aperture control. So to change the aperture you have to take off the lens, make the change on an SLR body, and then reattach.

The M2 is the M2. It will work with any camera (well, maybe not ANY...). However, you need a shim kit to use it with the HVX or many other cameras, so if you're definitely going that route, you may want to go ahead and buy that now.

[Steve Shovlar]

The external battery will las all day no problem. I think if you buy the M2 its an essential accessory and Redrock should sell them on their site as a matter of course. the internal 9v battery will last an hour or so before it needs to be changed, bepending on weather conditions. personallly I want the GG to be spinning as fast as possible without burning out the motor and the external 9v battery does that. And of course it means that you don't have to take your whole setup apart, slide the M2 off the rails, find an alum key, take the M2 apart, then put it all together again and line it up etc. With two fully charged external batteries, you could shoot all day, and all night, without having to disemble the
M2. And to me for the less than $100 for two external batteries, it's a no brainer.

As for the image being out of fucus in the corners, I am 100% sure this is because of users setting it up. I orginally had the same problem but now I have edge to edge sharpness. The HVX's lens focuses down to the front of the glass, so you don't need spacers (which IMO cause the problem). The acromat sits right up against the HVX lens and Bingo! Lovely clear edge to edge images. The M2 works better on the HVX than the FX1/ZU1 because of this very reason.

As for why most people are using Nikon, as others have written, just go to Ebay and pick some great quality Nikon primes for next to nothing!(relatively speaking!)
I got all my lenses for £1100 ($1800) and I also use them on my Nikon D70s for stills, so I am double winner with them. Lenses I use are 17-35mm 2.8, 35-70 2.8 (quite cheap out there) You dopn't have to go so extravelgent. 50mm 1.4 lenses are cheap, as are 24 and 35mm. Want widescreen more than a 17mm? A 14mm Nikon prime will set you back around $1000, but virtually no vingetting.

[Andreas]

Canon lenses are fine, but do have one problem: there is no external aperture control. So to change the aperture you have to take off the lens, make the change on an SLR body, and then reattach.


I was wondering if there is someone that had actually done this and worked. All I have is Canon EF lenses and looking forward to use them with M2. But is it really so simple ? :dankk2:

[HansK]

As for the image being out of fucus in the corners, I am 100% sure this is because of users setting it up. I orginally had the same problem but now I have edge to edge sharpness. The HVX's lens focuses down to the front of the glass, so you don't need spacers (which IMO cause the problem). The acromat sits right up against the HVX lens and Bingo! Lovely clear edge to edge images. The M2 works better on the HVX than the FX1/ZU1 because of this very reason.
What's the distance from the HVX lens to the achromat? I would like to compare that to the DVX lens distance.

I am fairly certain the M2 achromat isn't the right setup for a DVX. I've read all the comments on the Redrock forum, here, and elsewhere and blurry edges is a common theme with the M2/DVX combo.

I know it's not an alignment problem since I have verified that. Also, with an alignment problem the blur is uneven.

Note, these issues are what make these 35mm adaptors a real pain.

[taubkin]

I'm using it with my DVX. (You can actually see some footage in the DVX screens section)

It's fantastic. It does not make everything better. IN fact it does not make it look like film or whatever, it makes it look as something totally new!

It's a new style that is actually pretty hot right now. The 35mm adapter style. I face it as a filter, like the black promist was in it's days. It is certainly a trend. But I have to admit I like this look so much, I'm actually using it in everything I do. And people who watch it do notice. I mean, check the clip I posted, about the planes. Now think that was shot plain video. Pretty boring...

And BTW, I only spent 950 bucks on my kit, total. 4 Nikon primes, plus indie package plus a magnet. It's working like a charm!

[joelnet]

Hahahahahaaaaaahahahahaha! You're funny.

I just got mine today, so I can definitely share the "setting it up is a pain in the ass" comments. Overall it's not too bad, but it's taken me about an hour to get the shims assembled and all that (the shim screws are too close to the casing, so you have to loosen them with 1/4 turns... really irritating but you only have to do it once.

I've had to set it aside for the moment but I hope to get it all tweaked and ready to go later this evening.

You should have tried shimming the opposite end... where the rods meet the camera base instead of shimming the unit itself. Much easier, though the rods end up sticking out further. It's a pretty quick and easy operation.

@Steve -
Do you have a rez chart showing edge to edge sharpness? I've tried every zoom setting. I don't think it's my lenses (though I have seen ghosting and CA vary between lenses). I can also see that the GG itself is sharp from edge to edge. That leaves me thinking it's the Achromat. Also, which way around is your achromat facing?

[Steve Shovlar]

What's the distance from the HVX lens to the achromat? I would like to compare that to the DVX lens distance.



It is right next to the HVX lens.

HVX- 82/72 stepping ring - 72/55 stepping ring - Acromat.

If I could get a 82-55mm step down ring that would be even better.

Joelnet.
I have shot footage with a res chart with edge to edge sharpness. I couldn't do it with the FX1 but with the HVX I have managed it.

[HansK]

It is right next to the HVX lens.
Yes, as is mine on the DVX. But what is the measured distance from the HVX lens to the acromat lens? I would like to compare that distance.

[dougspice]

edit: I understand what you were saying now... nevermind!

[dougspice]

I have shot footage with a res chart with edge to edge sharpness.

Care to share your tips? I get pretty decent results after an hour or so tweaking but there's still definite falloff of sharpness at the edges.

[Steve Shovlar]

Set up your HVX like this:
HVX - 82-72 step down ring -72-55 step down ring - acromat - 55-72 step up ring - rubber hood - skylight - M2. Make sure the whole setup is aligned as best as you can get, and dust free. Use the HVX auto focus to focus in on the GG. I zoom in to 87. Switch then to manual and away you go.

Someone asked what way around the acromat goes. Well it can only go one way, and that is bowed side towards the HVX lens.

If you shoot at F5.6 you will also get sharper images. Using Tokina or a similar cheaper lens may cause problems. best to stick to Nikon, and they are cheap enough second hand anyway.

Hope that helps.

[Rich Lee]

- Alignment is tricky unless hard coupling is used



what do you mean? are you physicaly mounting the M2 to the HVX using some sort of ring? or are you saying that alignment would be less tricky if it were a "hard" connection?

the one thing i dont like about the M2 is the soft connection...it bothers me in many ways.

is there a way to hard connect the two? other then the weight put on the frontof the lens (i would still use rods to support) wouldnt it be better?

[dougspice]

72-55 step down ring - acromat - 55-72 step up ring

So adding these two extra adapter rings in some way is helping? Isn't that just creating extra distance between lens and M2 that I could just achieve otherwise? My settings basically match yours otherwise (I had zoomed to 89).

My understanding was also that the HVX starts to dramatically LOSE sharpness starting at f/5.6. True?

[Steve Shovlar]

Rich, you can buy a 55mm coupling ring, which is like a spacer ring but is male threaded on both sides.

Now, I thought I would hard couple using one of these, but didn't think it right through. The whole thing was going together well.........untill I got to connect the M2! Now if the M2 was not on rails it might not have been a problem, as I would have just screwed the M2 onto the whole lot but litterally screwing it on. But you can't of course. So as you go along making this hard connection, you will get to the end and the last piece will cause the problem.

Perhaps you could get an engineering workshop to make a 55mm coupling ring with much longer threads on each sides, so you could screw one side in all the way, then screw the other side by unscrewing it half way back into the other part. That way the whole lot will be connected. Hope I am making some type of sense!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/55mm-55mm-male-to-male-Macro-reverse-coupling-ring_W0QQitemZ7606304900QQcategoryZ67358QQssPageNa meZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Steve Shovlar]

So adding these two extra adapter rings in some way is helping? Isn't that just creating extra distance between lens and M2 that I could just achieve otherwise? My settings basically match yours otherwise (I had zoomed to 89).

My understanding was also that the HVX starts to dramatically LOSE sharpness starting at f/5.6. True?


I would prefer to have the acromat smak bang next to the HVX lens, but the HVX is 82mm and the acromat 55mm, so I use two stepping rings to get them to join together. If there is an 82-55mm stepping ring you know of let me know and I will buy it to close the gap even further.

Also regarding sharpness it depends on which lens you are using. I found 5.6 to be good. The Polish director who posts clips on the Redrock forum and has had super sharp reults uses F8.
Cheers
Steve

[dougspice]

Ah, I see. I thought you were talking about f/stop on the HVX lens.

[Steve Shovlar]

Ah, I see. I thought you were talking about f/stop on the HVX lens.

NO I always have the F stop on the HVX at wide open or 2.8.

[booth]

We were looking at the M2, but with the shipping costs, duty fees, etc (we're based in the UK) we're now looking out for the SGPro which is made in the UK for £400 (£426.40 including delivery and Paypal %).

[Steve Shovlar]

Showing what the M2 can do is pretty easy. I just whacked an 80-200mm Nikon 2.8 on the M2 and shot some cows in the field next to my house this afternoon with the HVX200. No colour correction or anything done to the footage which was shot on scene file F6, but you can see its pretty sharp edge to edge.

http://www.steveshovlar.com/cows.mov

The movie is quite compressed

[HansK]

what do you mean? are you physicaly mounting the M2 to the HVX using some sort of ring? or are you saying that alignment would be less tricky if it were a "hard" connection? Alignment would be less tricky.

I'm using a technique I read about on the M2 forum. Loosen the camera mount so that it remains connected but can rotate left or right. Next, loosen the M2 from the rails. Fold the rubber hood flat. Now, holding the M2 so it won't slide, orient so the camera is pointing upwards (vertical). Carefully slide the M2 down so that it rests against the outer ring of the achromat. Adjust the alignment of the camera so that it is flush and centered on the M2. You might need to remove the rubber hood to get a flush contact. Now tighten down the camera. At this point you know that the camera is aligned correctly to the M2.

Next, you need to slide the M2 back, pop out the hood, slide the M2 back and to the point where you normally connect it with the achromat. Then go through the back focus adjustment.

Simple! (argh).

I have thought about finding/making a coupling so I don't need to go through this each time I remount my camera. The benefit of a hard coupling (tube) would be to:

Remove the rubber hood
Remove the filter (another loss of light)
Allow quick and easy alignment

[sukram]

From the Redrock forum:

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: HVX200 + M2: What to Expect
I've been using my new HVX200 with the M2 and M3 element. Here's what to expect if you are planning to use the same:

The camera must be adjusted laterally on the rod support, you can learn how to do this in the M2 tuturials.

You will need a 1/4 + a 1/8 shims for a perfect line up.

To install the shims you must take off the front panel, remove everything inside (which comes out as one piece), and then you will see the hex screws which attach the rod support connector.

You will need an 82mm to 72mm step down ring.

I chose to use Nikon lenses and have no complaints.

I also bought the recommended tripod head from EVS and am very pleased with it. It's a good price for that type of tripod head.

You do not have to worry about seeing the ground-glass while shooting in HD or in higher FPS. This is assuming you have the M3/M2 powered on of course.

To focus on the ground glass I zoom in to 20 and focus at 24. You can see what your focus is in the bootom right corner of your LCD Veiw Finder.

This begs the following question - do we really need the achromat? The HVX has a great macro. I impression was that the achromat was necessary for the dvx and sony's, whose macro lens was not up to par. The pros and cons of avoiding the achromat are obvious:

Pros - brings the lens closest to the M2
fewer step rings
less glass, thus light loss
no need to zoom (the tighter the zoom, the harder it is to focus)

Cons - Using the macro makes focusing on the GG more difficult (its way more sensitive)


I really can't test this theory yet (STILL waiting - 4 weeks), and maybe I am all wrong here on the setup. I ordered the 82-72 step down based on Redrock's advice - I am wondering if i need more! Thanks for any help!

markus

[HansK]

No colour correction or anything done to the footage which was shot on scene file F6, but you can see its pretty sharp edge to edge.
I would have to disagree with you here. It's nice looking footage but it also exhibits soft edges. Most of the shots don't have a consistent plane of focus to the edge so it's not possible to verify edge sharpness. But the shot of the two cows lying down around 30 seconds in does. Note the focus on the black cow. Now follow that focus distance in the clip to the left and right edges. It starts getting soft as you move to the edges. The detail of the grass goes very soft.

Now, again, these shots aren't the best for testing edge-to-edge sharpness. If you have a focus chart then I recommend taking a quick clip of one and posting that.

[Steve Shovlar]

Suckram, yo will need an 82/72mm step down ring, and a 72/55mm step down ring.

[Steve Shovlar]

But the shot of the two cows lying down around 30 seconds in does. Note the focus on the black cow. Now follow that focus distance in the clip to the left and right edges. It starts getting soft as you move to the edges. The detail of the grass goes very soft.



That shot was 200mm F2.8, so the depth of field on that shot was extremely shallow.

Take a look at the shot from 21-25 seconds. The label on the cows ear on the left is not soft, other than again the depth of field is so shallow it was not in perfect focus as I focussed on the sport between the cows ears.

[sukram]

Suckram, yo will need an 82/72mm step down ring, and a 72/55mm step down ring.

Shovelar -

My impression is that the 72/55mm step down ring is for the achromat. If this is true, do you actually need it if you don't use the achromat? Just trying to be clear here.... Thanks for any help you can offer.

markus

[Steve Shovlar]

Shovelar -

My impression is that the 72/55mm step down ring is for the achromat. If this is true, do you actually need it if you don't use the achromat? Just trying to be clear here.... Thanks for any help you can offer.

markus


I Have just tried to setup the HVX200 without the acromat and it doesn't work. You can't zoon in enough to focus on the GG without the edge of the GG showing. I have a +2 closeup and tried that, and again I can't get in close enough. I am unsure exatly what magnification the M2 acromat is, but should imagine around a +7. If anyone can do it without the acromat let me know your secret please!

[HansK]

That shot was 200mm F2.8, so the depth of field on that shot was extremely shallow. Even with a shallow depth of field you should still have a line of sharpness across the image that follows the focus depth. Stop the clip at the :30 second mark and zoom 200%. The edge blur is very obvious. Pick a location in the center that is in focus. Now follow outward along a line that would be the equivalent distance. Notice how the image gets softer and softer towards the edges. That has nothing to do with DOF.

Here's the clip at the :30 sec mark. Note the focus plane and how the detail blurs the farther towards the edge you move.

http://www.norcalfilms.com/photos/cows-30-M2-blur.jpg


Take a look at the shot from 21-25 seconds. The label on the cows ear on the left is not soft, other than again the depth of field is so shallow it was not in perfect focus as I focussed on the sport between the cows ears. Not a good example because the edge is already out of focus. I agree that the image at that point is nice and does look less blurry at the edges.

Please shoot a focus chart and post that. That will be the real proof.

[Steve Shovlar]

Whilst I agree with what you are saying, I was shooting long and if there was any distortion it's more down to the lens than the M2. With my 17-35mm I am good edge to edge.

[Steve Shovlar]

OK here's a res chart I shot a minute ago with a single dedo. Not good light conditions. Noise from HVX, not M2.

http://www.steveshovlar.com/screengrab.png

[HansK]

OK here's a res chart I shot a minute ago with a single dedo. Not good light conditions. Noise from HVX, not M2.
That looks great and I don't see any of the edge blur. Which lens did you use for that? This is all very strange. The image with the cows lying down has definate blur. But your res chart looks great. The difference may be the clue to the blur problem.

Steve, you are a tremendous help to all of us M2 owners. Thanks!

[Steve Shovlar]

Hansk, I used a 17-35mm 2.8. A very wide good lens. The footage with the cows was with an 80-200 2.8, and the cow shot you disected was shot at 200mm.

Interestingly I have just looked up a review of the 80-200mm and they say edges are soft at 2.8, and sharpest at F8, so that again might be the main problem.

[andy_starbuck]

Steve -- nice cow movie. I really want to be able to shoot like that with my m2 and HVX.

I've been trying to setup my m2 with HVX for about ten days, following all the guidance I can find. Is there a trick that I'm missing? I've got the m2 perfectly aligned to the HVX. The achromat is attached via an 82mm-72mm adapter ring. I've tried folding the rubber gasket back and pushing the achromat up to the M2. I've tried it with the rubber pulled just flush with the back of the first lip of the achromat. I've tried various zooms and focus, using autofocus to focus on the ground glass. Still I've got soft focus on one side and sharper focus in the center and poor focus to the edges. I don't really see too many things I can adjust. Is it possible I have the ground glass the wrong distance from the 35mm lens?


Thanks,

Andy

[nycfilmmaker]

I love that cow footage,
i got a kick out of that.

[taubkin]

That looks great and I don't see any of the edge blur. Which lens did you use for that? This is all very strange. The image with the cows lying down has definate blur. But your res chart looks great. The difference may be the clue to the blur problem.

Steve, you are a tremendous help to all of us M2 owners. Thanks!

I beg to differ. Althought the cows footage is really cool, the edge softness is quite visible in the res chart too (at least I see it). Perhaps you could zoom in a little further, Steve... :)

[rgdfilms]

G35 please..

mmm

[telebay]

I'm a rank amatuer, but couldn't the lack of detail on the sides of the cow footage only appear to be of LESS detail due to the fact that the grass in the middle is highlighted by the black cow (which sits behind it). I would think that the grass on the left and right may look more detailed if there were a couple black cows thrown in there, as well.

On second look however, I see there is a little less detail at the edges, but on a shot like this I'm thinking like a painter who might opt to let the edges lose detail in order to bring attention to the subject.

[Steve Shovlar]

Any softness at the edges is definately the lenses, not the M2. Reviews of the Nikon lenses say that at 2.8 the image is soft at the edges, and that's what I shot at. F8 is sharper, but of course you lose the DOF which I was trying to acheive.

Too busy today to do any more shooting but maybe tomorrow I will shoot some stuff at F8 to see the difference.

It must be said though that no matter what adaptor is used, you are capturing an image through an extra lens onto a piece of spinning glass. Because of this there is bound to be a slight reduction on image quality compared to shooting without an adaptor. The trick is to make the image reduction as minimal as possible.

Here's a few pics of my setup.
http://www.steveshovlar.com/hvx_m2-005.jpg

http://www.steveshovlar.com/hvx_m2-001.jpg
http://www.steveshovlar.com/hvx_m2-002.jpg
http://www.steveshovlar.com/hvx_m2-003.jpg
http://www.steveshovlar.com/hvx_m2-004.jpg


I am selling the Teletest monitor this week. It is a professional monitor and costs over $2000 new. It has flip and mirror and runs off Sony batteries. Perfect condition. Look out for it on ebay. I will let it go for £600 and I take paypal!

[dougspice]

Why are you selling it?

[Steve Shovlar]

Because I purchased a Marshall in a very good deal with a friend. I haven't seen the Marshall in action yet but word out it was good, though no flip.

Not sure if I made the right decision but I will compare when the Marshall arrives today or tomorrow. Meant to be higher res.

The Teletest is a rolls royce of monitors.
http://www.teletest.co.uk/productinfo.asp?id=44

[Erik Olson]

I can tell you one thing after looking at that cow footage - those cows most certainly are not from California.

e

[andy_starbuck]

Steve,

Thanks so much for the pictures of your setup. That helped a lot. I finally removed the hood and pushed the achromat and the skylight flush. And for the first time I got the edge-to-edge sharpness I wanted. I tried a couple of lenses, and I agree with you that the lens was part of the problem.

Three more questions, if you don't mind.

1) Do you find that the positioning of the camera relative to the m2 is critical? It seems that even a millimeter off either in horizontal translation or parallelism between the two is enough to mess up the evenness of the focus. Do you find this to be true? Are there any tricks you use to get the two aligned and to keep them that way?

2) I've read that the CineGamma's cause the image to go unnaturally dark. I was wondering what Gamma you favor or what Gammas you use in various situations.

3) To experiment with the focus, I finally hooked the camera up to a 50" HDTV. Would you say that you can't use the m2 without an HD monitor? I was hoping I could set the back focus and then shoot using the camera's LCD and focus assist. I guess my concern is that I might bump the camera and lose the critical alignment for the back focus and then never know it in the field. Besides image flip -- is focus/alignment the reason for the extra monitor?

Thanks for your advice. Greatly appreciated!

Andy

[HansK]

Are there any tricks you use to get the two aligned and to keep them that way?
Read the post I made a little back in the thread. It explains the trick of sliding the M2 against the achromat/camera first to align them.


I guess my concern is that I might bump the camera and lose the critical alignment for the back focus and then never know it in the field.
Many people use gaffer tape on their zoom and focus rings after finalizing the back focus.

Another quick note, even after setting back focus I do a final adjustment of the camera focus whenever I add or change the 35mm lens. I will focus as sharply as possible using the lens (using a monitor) then fine tune with the camera focus. The camera can focus small amounts between the focus units displayed. For example, within a focus distance of 87 there is still small adjustments that can be made.

[Steve Shovlar]

Steve,
Three more questions, if you don't mind.

1) Do you find that the positioning of the camera relative to the m2 is critical? It seems that even a millimeter off either in horizontal translation or parallelism between the two is enough to mess up the evenness of the focus. Do you find this to be true? Are there any tricks you use to get the two aligned and to keep them that way?

2) I've read that the CineGamma's cause the image to go unnaturally dark. I was wondering what Gamma you favor or what Gammas you use in various situations.

3) To experiment with the focus, I finally hooked the camera up to a 50" HDTV. Would you say that you can't use the m2 without an HD monitor? I was hoping I could set the back focus and then shoot using the camera's LCD and focus assist. I guess my concern is that I might bump the camera and lose the critical alignment for the back focus and then never know it in the field. Besides image flip -- is focus/alignment the reason for the extra monitor?

Thanks for your advice. Greatly appreciated!

Andy

Point one. I am not over fussed in lining the camera up with the M2. I actually "eye it in". before I zoom in, I look through the viewfinder and make sure the GG sits in the middle of the screen. I seem to get sharpness edge to edge with the minimum of fuss or attention.

Point two. I shot the cow footage on F5 gamma V. I also use F6 a lot as well.

Point three. Every time I shoot, I use focus assist. Every single shot I check for focus with focus assist. The monitor is used not for focus but composition of the shot, as it has flip and shows the image the right way up. Without a monitor I just wouldn't be able to work properly as I would be shooting flipped, and that would be virtually impossible.

I also agree that a bit of tape to lock the focus of the HVX on the GG is well worth doing. It's so very easy to move the HVX focus dial instead of the Nikon lens by mistake. If the HVX focus is taped then is saves yo having the find accurate focus on the GG again.

And no, those cows are from the field next to my house here in Dorset. Thomas Hardy, Tess Of The D'Obervilles, "Far From The Madding Crowd" country.

[andy_starbuck]

Brilliant Hansk and Steve!
I can't thank you enough.

Andy

[garydxd]

Whoa, the HVX gets really long with that setup! It must be near impossible to shoot hand held?

Love the cows BTW

[R Gale]

Steve,

Your setup looks great, as does the cow footage. Good thing no bulls charged you, it would be difficult to move very fast carrying that stuff!

Couple of questions....
Did you have to get the extra-long rods to support that 80-200 zoom?

Also, is it front-heavy with the long lens on there, or does the monitor on top help balance it all out? Thanks.

[Steve Shovlar]

Steve,

Your setup looks great, as does the cow footage. Good thing no bulls charged you, it would be difficult to move very fast carrying that stuff!

Couple of questions....
Did you have to get the extra-long rods to support that 80-200 zoom?

Also, is it front-heavy with the long lens on there, or does the monitor on top help balance it all out? Thanks.

The rods are the standard rods that come with the indie package. I ordered extra long rods from Redrock a while back and they haven't shown up yet. I might cancel them as I don't think I will now need them and just settle for these, that are just long enough.

As for weight and length of the setup, well it is almost, but not completely impossible to go handheld. But you would'nt use an 80-200mm lens on handheld, your focus would be impossible if you move about. You could use the 17-35mm and go very wide to have a big DOF and go handheld, and I should imagine last a few mins before being dragged to the floor under its weight.

This setup is definately for the tripod, and you need a good one like a Satchler or a pro Viten that can handle quite a few kilos!!

[Anders Holck]

How much does it weight - HVX w. battery, M2 and rods?

[Steve Shovlar]

With the Matte box and a couple of 4x4 filters, 80-200 lens, rods and mount, camera, M2 and lcd monitor, just over 10 pounds.

[Anders Holck]

Ok thanks, and what's the lenght of the rig, end to end, with that setup?

[Steve Shovlar]

About 28 inches.

[jnatalie]

Wow...that is just unreal.

[dougspice]

I've now got a Lenmar 5400 mAh battery attached to my M2. I tested it by just turning the M2 on and letting it go. It ran for 7 hours straight and only brought the battery down to 3/4 charge. So as suspected, the battery is overkill for this situation, but I'm finding other uses for it as well.

[Poi Boy]

1147,
I think redrock is coming out with a battery solution at NAB.
-A

[Steve Shovlar]

Yes they are. It will power the camera, M2 and monitor from what I can gather. I want one now!!

[Suede]

Steve:

I wanted to thank you for all your advise in this thread. I will be receiving my M2 in the next few weeks and the information you have provided will be invaluable.

[booth]

How do film outs look with these 35mm adapters ~ does the softening of the image cause any problems?

[R Gale]

How do film outs look with these 35mm adapters ~ does the softening of the image cause any problems?
Only filmout I've seen with 35 adapter footage was at the JVC event at the Director's Guild several months ago. They screened some test footage shot in a garden on the JVC HD-100, using a P + S mini 35. Very shallow focus, rack focuses.

It looked like 35mm film IMO.
From what I've seen you can control the softness with your lens choices, and aperture.
--In an earlier thread, Steve posted an M2/HVX clip he shot in a garden (so many gardens!)which had a wide shot of a field with true edge-to-edge sharpness.

It doesn't have to be insanely shallow focus, f/1.4 kind of stuff. I believe there's a happy medium to be found. Plus, if the focus is too shallow, for drama it will be extremely difficult to follow the actors.

[Steve Shovlar]

http://www.steveshovlar.com/garden1.mov

Wide shot at 35 seconds.
HVX200 and M2

[alexandroff]

I just ordered HVX200 and M2 RedrockMicro adapter for Nikon lens.
I do not have a Nikon lens package yet. What would be the ideal & affordable package for me to buy? for around $1500 budget?

will indiesnap mattebox work with this set up?

[Steve Shovlar]

Nikon Primes can be picked up cheaply on Ebay. I use three lenses, the 17-35 2.8, 35-70 2.8 and the 80-200 2.8.

For inside darker conditions you might want to buy a 35mm 2.0, a 50 1.4 and a 80 1.4. If you can't strtch to a 80mm 1.4, then the 1.8 is very good.

Unsure about the mattebox, but pretty sure it will.

[workaholic]

Showing what the M2 can do is pretty easy. I just whacked an 80-200mm Nikon 2.8 on the M2 and shot some cows in the field next to my house this afternoon with the HVX200. No colour correction or anything done to the footage which was shot on scene file F6, but you can see its pretty sharp edge to edge.

http://www.steveshovlar.com/cows.mov

That cow footage looks fantastic!! The colors pop! Slap some voice over on that and you could have a really funny commercial.

[Steve Shovlar]

Funny thing is they were crapping, farting and p*ssing as well but I cut that part out!

[workaholic]

I know some actors that do that as well.

[darwinandpaine]

Nikon Primes can be picked up cheaply on Ebay. I use three lenses, the 17-35 2.8, 35-70 2.8 and the 80-200 2.8.

For inside darker conditions you might want to buy a 35mm 2.0, a 50 1.4 and a 80 1.4. If you can't strtch to a 80mm 1.4, then the 1.8 is very good.

Are these Nikon lenses the same lenses that will work on the D50, D70, etc...? I'm looking to trade my Canon DSLR in for a Nikon, so that would be sweet (my M2 is only about 3-4 weeks away).

Thanks for all the info and footage. The stuff looks great.

[dougspice]

Yes, same lenses. Just don't get the DX lenses and you'll be fine.

[darwinandpaine]

Thanks Doug!

[alexandroff]

Steve, one more question on the M2 package.
I ordered Indie HD Package for Nikon
It includes:
M2 Cinema Lens Adapter
Special M2 HD Achromatic lens
15mm Rod Support System
Nikon SLR lens mount
I'm also getting the Package of 3 Nikon lens you suggested.

While all this is being shipped, what else do I need to order to set this all 'nicely':) when it arrives?

will I need an 82/72mm step down ring and a 72/55mm step down ring or they are included? what about the Anchromat?

also, you gave a good advice on Nikon lens (17-35 2.8, 35-70 2.8, 80-200 2.8); thank you. what about filters? can you suggest a general package.

[Steve Shovlar]

I Alex, you will need an 82/72 stepping ring for the new HD acromat.

I haven't ordered this yet, has anyone else? Be interesting to know the image difference between the 55mm and 72mm acromat.

When using the 80-200mm it will be worth buying a lens support. redrock sell them. Takes the strain away from the M2.

Then as for filters, its up to you. I would buy a matte box and use 4x4 Tiffen, Formatt or Lee filters. They will last forever, as you may change the camera in years to come but you won't have to worry about the filters. but 82mm filters and you may have to clear them out in future if the next camera has a different thread size.

[alexandroff]

Steve, do you know of a place that sells 82/72 stepping ring for the new HD acromat?

[darwinandpaine]

Alex,
Here's one:
http://www.adorama.com/FLD8272.html

[rgdfilms]

Would the Indie Snap! matte box work on the m2 ? What matte boxes are you guys using ?

thanks

RD

[Steve Shovlar]

Obviously you need one with rails. Vocas 350 works well.

[rgdfilms]

Can you post a link to the Vocas Steve ?

Thanks

Tom-HANKS

[HowdyDoo]

Is there a certain tripod that works the best with the HVX and the M2? I imagine the whole rig gets rather heavy.

[HansK]

I'm using the Cavision 4x4 Matte box with rails.

[Steve Shovlar]

Can you post a link to the Vocas Steve ?

Thanks

Tom-HANKS

http://www.prosourcebmi.com/products_shadefx.cfm

[alexandroff]

rgdfilms - IndieSnap should work fine! That's what I'm getting.

see this for more info:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=51747&page=4

[carlone]

I know of an M2 with Nikon mount for sale at a good price. I saw it yesterday (used with the HVX).

[HowdyDoo]

Wheeeeere?

[Steve Shovlar]

:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG) At Redrock?

[mochouinard]

Ok this site should CLOSE DOWN.... My credit card is full now because of this site !!! :)


I ordered the M2 this morning. Is there a 4 week+ waiting list ?

Thanks for everyone comments.

Im left with 20,000$ US in my wish list + 6,000k$ on my credit card.

Expensive hubby !!! ;)

[HDkilledFILM.]

Ok this site should CLOSE DOWN.... My credit card is full now because of this site !!! :)


I ordered the M2 this morning. Is there a 4 week+ waiting list ?

Thanks for everyone comments.

Im left with 20,000$ US in my wish list + 6,000k$ on my credit card.

Expensive hubby !!! ;)

they give you credit!?!?!?!?!

[djgvinny]

Ok this site should CLOSE DOWN.... My credit card is full now because of this site !!! :)


I ordered the M2 this morning. Is there a 4 week+ waiting list ?

Thanks for everyone comments.

Im left with 20,000$ US in my wish list + 6,000k$ on my credit card.

Expensive hubby !!! ;)
ok all you have left for you to get
steadycam
crane
shoulder cary
3 lenses
lights
and dont forget the hvx
a boom pole microphone
follow focus of course
and you are 30,000$im debt

[djgvinny]

oh i forgot the dolly,....33,000$

[rgdfilms]

did i smell rentals somewhere? I'm pretty sure there's a rental place somewhere around here..

sarcasm

i wish i had a million dollars too

[darwinandpaine]

ok all you have left for you to get
steadycam
crane
shoulder cary
3 lenses
lights
and dont forget the hvx
a boom pole microphone
follow focus of course
and you are 30,000$im debt

I have all of these, plus 30 feet of indie-dolly --- whoohoo! I'm finally set! Oh, wait... I could really use another boom pole and mic (carbon fiber, this time), better lavs, a curved dolly system, more lights, more lenses, a more portable, quick set-up dolly (scooter shooter?), more flags, scrims, butterflies, c-stands, etc... Damn, this is an expensive hobby! (I'm the expensive hubby --- or so says my wife.)

[djgvinny]

you said wife....:nads: ouch, even more expensive

[darwinandpaine]

you said wife....:nads: ouch, even more expensive

LMAO!

[mochouinard]

That sound about right, here is my list :

My future purshases:
Bag/Cases for all my gear
Boom Microphone
Sennheiser ME4 Microphone Cardioide
Cartoni Focus 2 Stage - 1500$ US (http://www.evsonline.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=EVS&Product_Code=F102)
EZ FX Jib - 1149$ US (http://www.ezfx.com/EZFX_Jib/)
Marshall V-R70P-HDA - 1400$ US (http://www.buydonlin.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Product_Code=V-R70P-HDA&Category_Code=video_007lcdmarshall)
Bescor NMH-65A Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) Battery - 14.4 VDC, 4.5 Ah, XLR Connector - 220$ US (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=411558&is=REG)
NRG 4-pin XLR Male to 4-pin XLR Female Coiled Extension Cable - 15 ft - 40$ US (http://www.adorama.com/NR0464715.html)
Verizoom MC100 motorhead - 3399$ US (http://www.ezfx.com/Motorized_Heads/)
TelePrompter from Prompter People Broadcast 15/17 1400$ US (http://www.prompterpeople.com/products.htm)

Missing the SteadiCam on there. Oh and a dolly too... + More lightning gear


I got those so far :
Canon 20D
Canon 17-85mm f/5.6 IS
Canon 50mm f/1.8
Canon 70-200mm IS USM f2.8
Canon 2x extender
Canon 580ex
Difusser for 580ex flash
Canon Remote timer
Total 6gig CF Memory

Panasonic HVX200
3x4gig P2 Card
2x5400mah Panasonic battery
2x5600mah DVXUser battery
Panasonic 60gig P2 Store
RedRockMicro M2 35mm adaptor kit On it way
LCD Hood
Directing Actors books
Holywood camera work DVDs
Digital Cinema Course Preordered
Pelican 1550

Sennheiser EM100 G1 Receiver 1/8" TRS only
Sennheiser EM300 G1 Receiver 1/8" TRS and XLR
Sennheiser SKM135 G1 Handheld Transmiter (Containing a MD835 capsule)
Sennheiser SK100 G1 Bodypack transmiter + XLR Cable
Sennheiser EK100 G1 Camera Mountable Receiver
Sennheiser ME2 Microphone OMNI :(

2x750watt hot light + bag + umbrella

StickyPod Kits

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why can't i win the lottery...

[John Rivers]

- Robot to carry everything (and do occasional evil biddings)

[darwinandpaine]

Aaaaaahhhhhhgggggg!

[djgvinny]

- Robot to carry everything (and do occasional evil biddings)
lmao:laugh:

[djgvinny]

That sound about right, here is my list :

My future purshases:
Bag/Cases for all my gear
Boom Microphone
Sennheiser ME4 Microphone Cardioide
Cartoni Focus 2 Stage - 1500$ US (http://www.evsonline.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=EVS&Product_Code=F102)
EZ FX Jib - 1149$ US (http://www.ezfx.com/EZFX_Jib/)
Marshall V-R70P-HDA - 1400$ US (http://www.buydonlin.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Product_Code=V-R70P-HDA&Category_Code=video_007lcdmarshall)
Bescor NMH-65A Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) Battery - 14.4 VDC, 4.5 Ah, XLR Connector - 220$ US (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=411558&is=REG)
NRG 4-pin XLR Male to 4-pin XLR Female Coiled Extension Cable - 15 ft - 40$ US (http://www.adorama.com/NR0464715.html)
Verizoom MC100 motorhead - 3399$ US (http://www.ezfx.com/Motorized_Heads/)
TelePrompter from Prompter People Broadcast 15/17 1400$ US (http://www.prompterpeople.com/products.htm)

Missing the SteadiCam on there. Oh and a dolly too... + More lightning gear


I got those so far :
Canon 20D
Canon 17-85mm f/5.6 IS
Canon 50mm f/1.8
Canon 70-200mm IS USM f2.8
Canon 2x extender
Canon 580ex
Difusser for 580ex flash
Canon Remote timer
Total 6gig CF Memory

Panasonic HVX200
3x4gig P2 Card
2x5400mah Panasonic battery
2x5600mah DVXUser battery
Panasonic 60gig P2 Store
RedRockMicro M2 35mm adaptor kit On it way
LCD Hood
Directing Actors books
Holywood camera work DVDs
Digital Cinema Course Preordered
Pelican 1550

Sennheiser EM100 G1 Receiver 1/8" TRS only
Sennheiser EM300 G1 Receiver 1/8" TRS and XLR
Sennheiser SKM135 G1 Handheld Transmiter (Containing a MD835 capsule)
Sennheiser SK100 G1 Bodypack transmiter + XLR Cable
Sennheiser EK100 G1 Camera Mountable Receiver
Sennheiser ME2 Microphone OMNI :(

2x750watt hot light + bag + umbrella

StickyPod Kits

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why can't i win the lottery...
hey mocho try this motor head ,you can save hallf the price, i have the crane works great
http://www.jdigitalproduction.com/mall/Kessler-Crane_PRODUCTS_CamControl.asp?subsize=&subtotal=&subweight=0&thedate=5%2F10%2F2006&thetime=10%3A18%3A58+PM&I1.x=41&I1.y=9

[mochouinard]

I have no problem spending less, even better, having it sooner ;) That does look good. Thanks for the tip

From all the crane I have seen, it seem the best solution. Seem very solid construction.

[alexandroff]

has anyone shot HVX200 on Nikon f2.8 lens? Is 2.8 enough light? or is it still to dark in general?

does anyone know of an alternative lens support other than the Redrock for the M2 adapter & Nikon lens? (redrock is out of stock with th lens support and they do not know when the next batch will be manufactured)

thank you.

[dougspice]

"enough light" for what? I've shot with that setup, both a 17-35mm f/2.8 and a 180mm. It's more than adequate for exteriors in day and half-light. Interiors would need a fair amount of light pumped into them, but nothing extravagant. Night exteriors would probably be really problematic.

[carlone]

I set mine up as demonstrated on the redrock site but I don't like the rod sticking out that far in the front so I put the shims UNDER the M2. It works PERFECT and the rods are spaced evenly on the camera (like they should be).

[Owen]

I shimmed the actual M2 as well -- but I'm worried I'll have to do it the weird way once the follow focus arrives. Hopefully not!

[alexandroff]

alternative to Redrock lens support, anyone?

[Lenilenapi]

I posted this on Hardware as well but maybe someone here had some advice:
I'm thinking about getting an M2 but am concerned about whether you can intercut footage shot with and without it. It seems like on some projects it may not be possible to get a shot with the adapter. Perhaps you just need to shoot in very low light or something will be shot by a different camera that can't get an adapter. There are any number of reasons why this might happen.
Will shots from the Redrock intercut Ok with stuff shot "clean"? What if it is part of the same scene?

[darwinandpaine]

I posted this on Hardware as well but maybe someone here had some advice:
I'm thinking about getting an M2 but am concerned about whether you can intercut footage shot with and without it. It seems like on some projects it may not be possible to get a shot with the adapter. Perhaps you just need to shoot in very low light or something will be shot by a different camera that can't get an adapter. There are any number of reasons why this might happen.
Will shots from the Redrock intercut Ok with stuff shot "clean"? What if it is part of the same scene?

I don't have mine yet, but from all the stuff I've seen (including a demonstration from Brian Valente at Redrock) the entire image does seem to change a bit (better "bokeh" all 'round?). However, it didn't seem like it changes so much that you couldn't intercut. I think it really depends on how you're shooting. If you were shooting M2 wide open to get the narrowest DoF, then you cut to standard HVX where everything was in focus, that might be too much of a jump. But, if you shot wide with the M2 to get less DoF than you could with the HVX alone, and then shot the close-ups on the long end of the HVX lens and opened up, they'd probably match up nicely.

The other thing is, once the M2 is set up, It's probably just easier to add a light, or do whatever else was needed to keep shooting with the M2. The thing doesn't lose that much light, so adding a 150k might make the difference. That's probably your best bet.

[dougspice]

If you were careful in what you were doing and what your setups were, you could intercut from scene to scene. I think you'd be asking for trouble, though, if your plan was to intercut shot-to-shot within a scene.

[holditnowfilms]

If you were careful in what you were doing and what your setups were, you could intercut from scene to scene. I think you'd be asking for trouble, though, if your plan was to intercut shot-to-shot within a scene.

Not really. I would assume you were trying to use the advantages of the really wide HVX lens or needed more light to shoot with if you remove the M2. Not a problem. The HVX at full wide (no zoom) looks a bit soft anyway. It matches up in texture just fine with the M2 CU and medium CU stuff.

If you were shooting out doors and ran out of sun light and needed to extend the camera a few stops to get the shots you needed by removing the M2 here is the problems you may face. You will never be able to duplicate the Shallow DOF you were getting with the M2. If you are shooting wide shots and or inserts you can get away with it though no problem.

I yanked the M2 off the camera a lot during my shoot. If I needed a cool wide angle shot or more light off it came. I shot all the CU's first if I was afraid I was gonna lose the sun. For hood mounted stuff on a moving car the M2 picked up too much vibration so Off it came. It's really not that big a deal. I can remove and or replace the M2 in less than 3 minutes. On the HVX it sits right up next to the box so there is very little tweaking. Point the camera at a well lit wall or white card. Focus on the GG and slap on a lens. I didn't even use Gaff Tape on the HVX focus because I like to double check the Back Focus before every shot. I found the focus ring would move slightly even with the tape anyway.

Don't fear this tool. Fear not having a good 1st AC and followfocus system. That is where you will lose more time on the set- missing marks. Actors included. It's hard for some actors to understand that with a 105mm lens from 4 feet back they have less than 1/2 inch of focus and when you say don't move your head you really mean don't move your head!

[darwinandpaine]

Here's a link to another thread with a commercial shot with the G35 (same principle). In the commercial, there are two shots that used the stock lens (the guy brushing on the street, and the crane down on the table). I think you'll see that the two cut together pretty well --- even in the same scene.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=58106

[Slimothy]

This is a thread for both praise and constructive criticism regarding the M2 adapter -

Those of you that have used or purchased this adapter, please share your thoughts..

Is it worth the big expense, ($1000 for adapter, $300 for lenses, $1400 for onboard monitor) for the image you get over the stock HVX lens?

Do you see the M2 as total neccesity or would you consider it a luxury?

How many of you wanted the Cinemek but gave up?

I've been personally thinking of investing in one by the end of the summertime but still have my own reservations -

thanks DvxUDES !

:crybaby:
$1400 for onboard monitor? Do you have to spend that much on a monitor to get sufficient results? I was planning on spending like $3-400 on a monitor. Am I in dreamland?

[Lenilenapi]

Thanks everyone.
Sounds like its not that big a deal. On the redrock forum they said a 1/8 Pro mist over the non M2 fotage would help the match a lot as well. Looks like I'll be spending more money again.

[dougspice]

I'd still say it definitely depends a lot on lens choice. Some lenses are just not going to match up with the stock lens unless you're very careful to plan ahead.

That said, though, most people don't really care. We can sit here all day long and go "Oooh, lookit! There's fringing and CA at 0:16 into the piece!" but 98% of the world is just going to think "well that looks nice". So I guess it would help to step back into reality and keep perspective now and then.

[darwinandpaine]

$1400 for onboard monitor? Do you have to spend that much on a monitor to get sufficient results? I was planning on spending like $3-400 on a monitor. Am I in dreamland?

Here's the deal. With the M2 and a narrow depth of field --- the whole point of getting the M2 --- focus becomes ultra critical. I don't know of a $3-400 monitor that would be good enough for critical focus. I can tell you that the Marshall 7-inch IS!

So, if you're going that last leg to get that "film look," I think it's the only way to go. Either that, or plan on keeping a 17-24 inch HD monitor right next to the camera at all times (good luck with that).

[holditnowfilms]

...plan on keeping a 17-24 inch HD monitor right next to the camera at all times (good luck with that).

Not as hard as it may seem. I had a 24" monitor at my side for a whole shoot. Hand held, dolly, sticks. It wasn't the best solution but it worked. It really sucked for the guy how had to carry it for me. LOL

[Slimothy]

So, if you're going that last leg to get that "film look," I think it's the only way to go. Either that, or plan on keeping a 17-24 inch HD monitor right next to the camera at all times (good luck with that).

You mention an HD monitor, what if I'm using it for my DVX. Will I still need such an expensive monitor? Tim.

[bvalente]

Thanks everyone.
Sounds like its not that big a deal. On the redrock forum they said a 1/8 Pro mist over the non M2 fotage would help the match a lot as well. Looks like I'll be spending more money again.


Just to clarify - what I said was that Mitch Gross posted on CML that he was checking out the M2 at NAB, that he liked it, and he said "it looks like putting a 1/8 black pro mist on the front" -

so I was suggesting based on Mitch's observation (and Mitch is a great guy - very knowledgeable) that might be a place to consider.

[darwinandpaine]

You mention an HD monitor, what if I'm using it for my DVX. Will I still need such an expensive monitor? Tim.

That's a good question. Focus is less critical on SD, but I'd still think you'd want a really good portable (on-camera) monitor for pulling focus. When I get my M2, I'll try it out on both my HVX and DVX and let you know.