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View Full Version : P2 and FCP Workflow/archival ideas - issues - and errors



newadam
03-30-2006, 12:38 PM
Greetings All Fellow Bleeding Edgers,
Well my HVX finally arrived after being the exact opposite from most here - I had 2 8gig cards for the last month sitting on my desk - but I caould not find a HVX. Anyway thanks to Barry's post about Lerro having some in stock last week - I finally got it.
My backgound and expertise has always been FCP editing and training, but I have done a little of everything ovet the last 12 years of this work. Anyway I am taking a mild turn as I look at working with an intenational ministry traveling aroud the world producing training and promos. So I am excited about the tapeless workflow - the simpler the better. I will be a one man production studio in a backpack (plus a few footlockers)
So on to the main questions/ thoughts...
I went out and shot some junk footage - mostly to solidify a workflow so I can feel comfortable and go ahead and purchase appropriate storage. I will elaborate more in a different post about my thoughts on the HVX and quality (but initially I am pleased/excited) So I shot about 7 clips, came in and hooked up the camera, put it in 1394 mode, copied the "no-name" icon over to the desktop and it bacame "no-name" folder. I changed the folder name to something more logical. I then went into FCP (5.04) and imported the P2 from the folder. Everything went fine and imported into my project. The clips looked great. So here is where it got interesting. I understand that when FCP imports from P2 it rewraps it as a quicktime as another file. At first I did not like the concept, but it may be better in that that becomes my backup. But I wanted to test what would happen if I deleted a quicktime file from the capture scratch folder of my media drive. I did this to make sure I could recconect the file from the separate P2 folder to rebuild my project assuming my main drive media drive failed. So I told FCP to make one of the clips offline and delete it from the disk. I then told FCP to import the file from the P2 folder again. At this the file showed up in the thumbnail viewer , but when I imported it - I got the error that it could not load the file because it was either corrupt or incomplete - a little scary because I had already reformatted the P2. :badputer: Whatever I tried it would not import. I tried to start a new project and reimport and it gave me the same error. So after a little mental anguish over investing $8000 in this stuff :furious3: - I looked in the trash and saw the files I told FCP to delete. So I tried to empty the trash and OS-X would not allow because the files were in use. So I quit FCP, emptied the trash and restarted FCP.I then tried to reimport the P2 and presto - it worked. Anguish over. :love4:

So here is my propsed workflow (at least until FCP 6 comes out and we have native MXF import)
1. Shoot footage
2. Copy P2 folders to a cheap external Firewire or USB2 Hard drive for archival.
3. Import the files I need from the external Hard Drive into FCP. This copies the files into the Quicktime wrapper and saves them on my larger/faster external Media drive which I edit from.
4. I do not delete either Hard Drives at any time. After the Archival Drive is filled and transfered from, I put it in secure storage - these are my raw "tapes".

OK so let the hole-punching begin. :kali: The strength is that I have two copies of the clips I used in the projects The weakness is that unless I import all of the clips into FCP, then I only have the clips I actually used backed up if the archival HD went kaput. Before I understood that FCP actually copied the data, I had planned on getting some of the new Maxtor one-touch III dual drive RAID 0 or 1 hard drives and set them up as a RAID 1 and transfer and work from the drives. I may still used these drives, but they are not as neccesary.

Thoughts??? :dankk2:

HVXguy
03-30-2006, 01:46 PM
I use a 17" PB in the field.
I have 2 - 4 gig cards
I try to check shots in camera before transfer.
I shoot until both cards get filled up.
I make a new folder on the main HD.
I try to use my 300 gig external if possible.
I labeled it with date and start the day with card one, then card two
etc.
I open FCP and check a few shots and then put the cards
back in the camera, format and go. I usually work alone
but if I had an assistant that was familiar with FCP it would not
take long for them to get the hang of it.
Sometimes I will actually stop and edit some shots together
or do a rough exposure, color check.
Back at home I copy all the P2 card contents to a FAT formatted PC drive. I can then use the P2 viewer for logging purposes.
(We need a MAC P2 viewer!!)
I back up all the P2 contents 1:1 to DVD-R for archieve.
In photoshop I make a contact sheet from the .bmp files in the ICON folder.
I crop and name it the same as the P2 folder, save as .jpg and
then print that photo on the DVD-R as a handy quick reference.

Your flow may be different and if you are on PC with Avid or Edius it may be different as well. All I can say is I would rather have .mxf files
on a DVD as a back-up vs. tape. I have old 3/4" & beta tapes that will not play and anything older than 7-8 years old has droppouts galore. I will probably take the DVD-R and copy those back to another drive as storage gets cheaper and then archieve the DVD-R in a vault somewhere.

Justyn
03-30-2006, 06:30 PM
HVX... That's a good idea with the icon and printing onto the DVD.. Like that a lot. I too can't wait till the mac has a p2viewer and sometype of database footage manager.

I'd also say that tape isn't reliable in the DV realm at ALL. Tapes I have from over 5 years ago have drop outs.. and problems galore, and I'm playing them in the same cameras they were shot in.. as well as others, and even a deck. Tape is certainly not a secure long-term back up. DVD-Rs are great for backing up.. .and when I get a 16 time writer, they'll be even better.

endmarks
03-30-2006, 08:42 PM
Well, here is what I have been doing on a Lifetime 2 hour movie in shreveport la.
-shoot 1080 footage on p2 cards
-download from powerbook to a firewire 800 drive.
-copy onto g-tech mini, or a 20 gig firewire ipod,
-ship to editorial in burbank, they store and send to timeline, and send back hardrive.

Have had no problems. simple enough. just like sending film to the lab.

footage looks fantastic. cuts well with main cameras, f900's.

HVXguy
03-30-2006, 09:39 PM
Shooting which flavor of 1080??
What are you editing with??

endmarks
03-31-2006, 06:52 AM
shooting 1080 24p
Not sure what they are editing with in burbank, I think it is an avid.

HVXguy
03-31-2006, 07:20 AM
Thanks,
It would be interesting to know how you are
using the HVX footage with the HDCAM footage.

newadam
03-31-2006, 02:06 PM
I like the idea of DVD archives. My problem is that I have 8gig p2 cards. I can use double layer discs, but does anybody know/ have tested/ the dependability of playback in different drives? Here is my question - If I archive to DVD-DL data discs now, what is the likely-hood of them playing back five years from now on my Bluray/yada yada drive in my 16 core AMD 128bit MacDesktop Pro machine on Mac OS-10.7 calico operating system?

mgoff
04-03-2006, 05:07 PM
HVX... That's a good idea with the icon and printing onto the DVD.. Like that a lot. I too can't wait till the mac has a p2viewer and sometype of database footage manager.

i havent started using it yet, but isn't Cinema Tools the Database you're looking for? granted it may not have been designed with that exactly in mind, but would it work?

Justyn
04-03-2006, 05:17 PM
mgoff... I don't think cinematools has that as an option.. but then again I'm not sure. I've used cinematools to correct the timebase of clips.. and it's awesome for that. There was some mention of a 3rd party piece of software to come out to do this...

WIll be interesting to see how it all develops.

mgoff
04-03-2006, 08:41 PM
mgoff... I don't think cinematools has that as an option.. but then again I'm not sure. I've used cinematools to correct the timebase of clips.. and it's awesome for that. There was some mention of a 3rd party piece of software to come out to do this...

WIll be interesting to see how it all develops.
have you thought about making your own with filemaker?
there may even already be a template for a filemaker db floating around out there somwhere you could use....
you know, if you have filemaker.... ;)

(off topic sorry but...)a pointer towards a good breakdown/tutorial/whathaveyou as to the uses and applications of cinema tools would be appreciated.