Anyone Interested in a DV Rack like app for MAC?

[bena]

I wanted to see how much interest there is for a program on the mac that does what DV rack for the PC does but supports HD and the HVX200?

Im interested to know what your priorities for features would be?

Direct to Disk recording 720P modes
Scopes
Focus Assist
Depth of Field flip correction
Direct to Disk recording HD 1080 24/30P

would $500 be a reasonable price if the program did all of the above?

this has nothing to do with Serious Magic. I am looking to see if there is enough interest to start development on a Mac version, with a different name of course.

Thanks for the feedback.

[dougspice]

I'm sure you'd find a lot of interest. I'd be into it. But, I think Redrock already has it near-completion.

[Barry_Green]

I don't know if redrock's supports HD, does it?

I'd definitely be interested. Far and away the things I use most on DV rack are:
1) pixel-accurate monitor for focus, and zooming into the monitor, and full-screen monitor capability
2) digital disk recorder, especially with the split-screen function; gotta have that split-screen capability to match a recorded shot against the live feed.
3) live waveform

If it did disk recording in all modes (DV50, 720p, 1080, and DV) that would be superb. And it should be a universal binary app so it runs on the new macbook and the old powerbooks.

It should record its files to QT MOVs that are directly editable by FCP. Should also use a huge RAM cache to buffer the frames during recording, to prevent there ever being a dropped frame on recording -- we need to be able to inherently trust it no matter what. And it should automatically strip out duplicate frames from 720p variable-frame-rate stuff, so if you're shooting 720/24p mode, it should record only the 24fps to the QT file.

It would also be stellar if it could record MXF files too -- so you'd have the choice of recording MXF or QT. I'd like to be able to use it to capture in the field, but capture MXF files that I could then edit on an Edius or Avid system.

And if you had it ready right now, yes I'd paypal $495 today for it.

[dvxStephen]

I'd also be a customer for $500.

Stephen Gagne
Westwood Studio

[dougspice]

Hmm, the Redrock supports HDV (no mention of any other HD flavors) and apparently only monitors in SD regardless. Damn.

So, yeah, add one more interested party. Like Barry, I'd buy right away if it delivered on those specs.

[joelnet]

Thanks for the feedback.

If you made it work on both platforms it would be best... especially if you offer both versions for the one price. Hopefully Mac going Intel would make designing for both platforms easier.

[darwinandpaine]

Yeah, I'm in too. Serious Magic is the only company that's ever made me want to buy a PC (sorry, for the dig). $500 sound great!

[Charles Scalfani]

I'd be happy if anyone supported HD on PC or Mac, Redrock or Serious Magic. I don't care who does it on what machine, just as long as it gets done.

Oh yeah, and 500 bucks works for me too.

[steindj]

I'd definitely be interested. You also may want to start a poll thread on this.

[Sproketz]

I'm in. The scopes in DV Rack seem to simulate the look of a real waveform/vectorscope pretty well. Much better than the wierd spray of dots that passes for scopes in Final Cut. I wonder if this could be rigged as a plugin for Final Cut?

[yasodic]

YES, for the love of Pete, make this for mac, I would also buy today in that price range with the features listed.

[David_M_Payne]

I don't know if redrock's supports HD, does it?

I'd definitely be interested. Far and away the things I use most on DV rack are:
1) pixel-accurate monitor for focus, and zooming into the monitor, and full-screen monitor capability
2) digital disk recorder, especially with the split-screen function; gotta have that split-screen capability to match a recorded shot against the live feed.
3) live waveform

If it did disk recording in all modes (DV50, 720p, 1080, and DV) that would be superb. And it should be a universal binary app so it runs on the new macbook and the old powerbooks.

It should record its files to QT MOVs that are directly editable by FCP. Should also use a huge RAM cache to buffer the frames during recording, to prevent there ever being a dropped frame on recording -- we need to be able to inherently trust it no matter what. And it should automatically strip out duplicate frames from 720p variable-frame-rate stuff, so if you're shooting 720/24p mode, it should record only the 24fps to the QT file.

It would also be stellar if it could record MXF files too -- so you'd have the choice of recording MXF or QT. I'd like to be able to use it to capture in the field, but capture MXF files that I could then edit on an Edius or Avid system.

And if you had it ready right now, yes I'd paypal $495 today for it.

What Barry said.

David

[SilverWolf]

I second that notion

[Neurodancer]

I already own DV rack from when I was on Premiere. I would love it for Mac and be HD. DV rack rocks!

[birgo]

should be great :-)

[booth]

I would like DVCProHD Rack for PC!

[Endurance_Man]

I would also buy it, with these features, for this price. Please don't take too long...

[SUBFRAME]

I'will buy it with my eyes closed.

But please... don't forget the PAL lands like Apple...;)

(720 25p & 50p forever)

[SUBFRAME]

In fact, only with DV50 and 1080 in PAL mode I'll buy it, although maybe with only one eye closed...:)

[bena]

What would your preferred method of copy protection be?

Dongle or Locked to 1 desktop and 1 laptop?

The dongle would allow you to move it between computers easier, but would add to the cost.

I hate the idea of having to have anti-piracy, but in such a small market it could jeopordize future development if sales are lost due to piracy.

Thanks
Ben

[steindj]

Dongle or Locked to 1 desktop and 1 laptop?

I like locked to 1 desktop and 1 laptop.

[martin59]

would be great

[AKshooter]

When can we order it?

[taubkin]

I'm in. The scopes in DV Rack seem to simulate the look of a real waveform/vectorscope pretty well. Much better than the wierd spray of dots that passes for scopes in Final Cut. I wonder if this could be rigged as a plugin for Final Cut?

Ctrl Click your waveform and check the line saturation. There is your old analog Waveform...

(I prefer the dots, though...)

[taubkin]

I'm in. The scopes in DV Rack seem to simulate the look of a real waveform/vectorscope pretty well. Much better than the wierd spray of dots that passes for scopes in Final Cut. I wonder if this could be rigged as a plugin for Final Cut?

Ctrl Click your waveform and check the line saturation. There is your old analog Waveform...

(I prefer the dots, though...)

[Jeff Deveraux]

Should I get out my credit card now? Or would you like me help you beta test it first?
PM me when you are ready.

[imgentertainment@mac]

I would be up for this but do not for get the audio tools

[bena]

A quick update your everyone. The app is up and running. We are adding the GUI now and optimizing the app to run on older mac hardware. We will support the HVX200 from the get go.

I will post more info as we get closer.

[taubkin]

Cool!

[Cut2muz]

I like many of Barry's comments, especially the wrapping in QT for edit. As well, a dongle is a pain in the rear. They get lost, especially now that the laptop has become a field recorder and gets packed and moved so much, dongles tie up a port that otherwise could be used and they never work properly in a hub. I also think it should be tied to 2 computers, not necessarilry a desktop and laptop. In one of our other setup combos, the field and studio (hotel) systems are both run on laptops though the hotel system has a lot of stuff hanging off of it. I'm not cheap, but 500 seems a bit high, But I only have DVRack and their promised DVCProHD product to come that are priced from 200 to 300. I fear a lot of smaller indie filmmakers make not plunk that amount down but you gotta make money or why do it. Make sure you include over-saturatiuon and high video level warning indicators, but not zebras. Split screen is a must I agree. Camera controls record function pleaseeeeeeee!

Will look forward to seeing this soon. Shooting a feature doc starting May 16th, will you have a beta available by then?

Best of luck with this.

Don Wilson
AmericanaMediaInc.com

[mark.burton]

This sounds fantastic and I'll certainly be buying a license, but please don't forget the PAL community - 720p 50/25 please, please please!!!

Thanks
Mark

[albo]

I'm also very interested. As many people have said here before, if you need a Beta tester, I'm willing and able.

[electricpig]

Give me PAL setups and PN and I'd quite happily splash $500 on it.

To say that the lack of PAL support for an HVX on a Mac is lacking is an understatement.

I want to play with slo-mo on something other than my HVX LCD...


yours hopefully,

mike.c

[David Saraceno]

Locked to one desktop and one laptop.

$499.00 and count me in as well.

[PKraft]

Locked to two processors (laptop and/or desktop) like the telecom apps
of novamedia.de :-)
File format must be universal, the times they are a changin', ya know.
Need a beta tester? Email me.

[RyanT]

Oh gosh this gets me all excited inside. Count me in as well!

[ddh]

I have to say with three large computers in the studio, three laptops to use in the field, not all for monitoring the shoot, I'd support a program that allowed me to use it on whatever machine I needed to do the trick at the time! What's this restriction business!

[bena]

Pal support at this point will work with DV. We have not tested our app with a Pal HVX. Please PM me if you have a Pal HVX, include which Mac model you are running as well as your specs.. OS version, ram, HD size and Speed, heck it might be easiest if you run a System profile and send that along ;')

The price is currently up in the air, we will be competative, but keep in mind that software development is not cheap, damn where are those indian programmers when you need them?

Our Goal is to give you all the tools you are asking for and more.

We are still working out the licensing/ anti-piracy. This is a tricky subject, as we dont want to limit you in using it, but we will need to keep piracy in check somehow. Hopefully we will find a good middle ground.

I will ask for Beta testers when we are ready.

I am hoping to show and possibly be able to sell the software at the NY HVX boot Camp. I will keep you all posted.

Ben

[Justyn]

I also second that dongle's suck and not a big fan. Something like what final draft does in that you can only have it installed on two computers.


Would be cool to see this happen. What has been your design background? Quality control? and future expansion models?

[snodart]

Dang, how did I miss this thread! I can't wait to see it.

[Skuzzle]

Count me in as very interested.

[darwinandpaine]

No dongle and I'm in.

[pretopost]

No dongle and I'm in.

Me too!

[dwelch]

I'm definitely interested!

[tbanucci]

Not to burst your bubble on this project, but now that you can use Boot Camp to run Windows on your MacBookPro, you can actually run DV Rack on your Mac!!!

I didn't know if anyone else posted this yet....

[bena]

Hmm.. I think most Mac users want to use OSX. Would you care to guess how many more Power Books are in the wild than MBP's?

Also we will support Quicktime and for anyone using FCP on a mac, DV Rack just wont work.

Plus, once people see our app, they will be like, um what was that other program? And the response will be "who cares, this Rocks!"


Not to burst your bubble on this project, but now that you can use Boot Camp to run Windows on your MacBookPro, you can actually run DV Rack on your Mac!!!

I didn't know if anyone else posted this yet....

[tbanucci]

Cool- I agree with you that a Mac OS X version would be great- the less I have to deal with Windows, the better. And if the features of your program outweigh DV Rack, then consider me another cutomer!

I was just throwing the Intel Mac thing out there in case you had not decided to go into this.

[Barry_Green]

The intel mac thing does raise some questions, as I believe DVC Rack will let you record to quicktime files.

I'd never bothered to do a live log & capture with FCP, but having seen Noah's demo at the HD Bootcamp, I gotta say, DVC Rack smacks FCP silly for doing the live capture/waveform thing. If bena provides an app that's of comparable quality, there should be a ready market for that.

[bena]

As far as I know, DV rack does not record QT files.. Yet. This I heard was a future feature, but until we see it....

Live waveforms are already up and running as well as the other scopes.

I really want to be able to use my 1 GHZ G4 PB with its 4200 rpm drive to capture 720P, so we are trying to optimize so people are not forced to upgrade to use our app. This is an on going process and we are making good progress.

We also need to draw some nice icons for the buttons.

We are working hard to get a tech demo with finished GUI ready for the NY BOOTCAMP, in the least you will see all the Scopes working in real time and recording direct to disk.

Thanks for all the interest.

Ben


The intel mac thing does raise some questions, as I believe DVC Rack will let you record to quicktime files.

I'd never bothered to do a live log & capture with FCP, but having seen Noah's demo at the HD Bootcamp, I gotta say, DVC Rack smacks FCP silly for doing the live capture/waveform thing. If bena provides an app that's of comparable quality, there should be a ready market for that.

[meddesigner]

I have DV Rack on a PC but do not really use it becuase it is on a PC. I do remember recording QuickTime files with it - DV QuickTime files. Do not know about DVCPRO-HD though.

[TwoHatCat]

Since when did it change? The last two times I talked to the DV Rack guys they said that although they are interested they don't think they will be doing any kind of DV rack for DVCPrOHD at all. Mac or PC, we're all out of luck if we have an HVX.

Has there been a new development?

[Barry_Green]

Yes, DVC Rack is in betatest right now. Should be on the market in six to eight weeks. But it's PC-only, whereas what bena is developing is a Mac application.

[imgentertainment@mac]

Keep up the good work. Can't wait to even see a beta copy

[OnLoMark]

DV Rack does indeed support recording to the QuickTime file format. It has since Day 1, and it's an option when recording DVCPro HD as well. And with the release of an update that should be ready to go next week, timecode support will be extended to the QuickTime format.

[dvxStephen]

Bena,

Count me in -- if it works well and does a reasonable job of producing something aking to a Mac HD DV Rack, $500 seems fair to me.

Thanks,

Stephen
Westwood Studio

[Jarred Land]

For you that are interested, Bena will be joining us at the HD bootcamp in New York May 20th to show us where he is at.. we are all very excited.

[bena]

For you that are interested, Bena will be joining us at the HD bootcamp in New York May 20th to show us where he is at.. we are all very excited.

Thanks so much for having me! I look foward to meeting you all at the Boot camp and showing you what we are up to.

[SamEdwards]

I have a macbook pro that is my shooting/downloading laptop. I already have the universal binary fcp installed and wonder if $500 is worth it to improve the functionality durring the shoot. What benefits would this offer over digitizing straight to fcp?
thanks,
Sam

[Vegas Bob]

I've been drooling over DV Rack for the last few years at NAB. It's great to hear about your project.

I believe the more full featured you can make your product the better it will be received. DV Rack has pretty much everything...

Pricing at $500. seems a bit steep to me. DV Rack is $295. I know that your product will be the only software on the Mac, at least for the near future and DV Rack doesn't support the HVX 200. But FCP Studio is $1299. for Final Cut Pro, Motion, Soundtrack Pro, Livetype and Compressor.

I've been in business selling training products for years and there's always a price point where you'll make the most money. Priced to high and people will figure out a way around your security. Final Cut Studio and DV Rack does set a bench mark to work from for your pricing.

Concerning the dongle, it's a deal breaker for me. Also, please consider that many users aren't large studios. In my case, I usually shoot with three cameras. 3 x $500. is a big enough finacial whack that would probably keep me just using FCP. Perhaps sell individual licenses but offer a discount for each additional license to a single user.

I wish you well in your endevor and I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

[ltf3]

We're in!

An HVX along with a Mac Laptop with the features mentioned here: HD monitoring and shot matching....

Drooooooooooooooooool!

Lee

[Barry_Green]

Consider that DV Rack is $295, but to get HD you need to get a $200 add-on pack. So DV Rack for the HVX or for HDV would cost about $500; in that context Bena's product at $500 would certainly be priced competitively.

Dongles are horrible, by the way...

[BenB]

I'd love it, and at $500, I'd get it ASAP.

[bena]

Just wanted everyone to know that I showed a Demo of what we have so far at the NY Bootcamp. I think everyone was happy with what they saw.

We are close, but we are still optimizing the software to make a 6 year old Powerbooks a viable platform, no promises that we will ultimately achieve this goal, but we are working hard to do so.

For all of you that missed the bootcamp here are some of the things I showed:

Full rez 480 and 720 video monitoring ( good for framing and Focus )
Vectorscope
Waveform
Histogram
RGB Parade

And if its Ok to quote Jarred "Wow, this is a lot further along than I expected!!!"

We do not have a shipping date but I can say we should have a product out in the next 6 months and that is a VERY conservative estimate ;')

More to come as we get closer.

Ben

[pretopost]

Thank you Bena!

[imgentertainment@mac]

Keep it up Ben, How about some screen shots to wet our appetise

[SPZ]

Bena, How About 1080p 25 and Pal formats? Are you supporting that for monitoring?

[dvInsight]

$395 to $495 I see as a "no brainer", but pleasssssse NO dongle. It does more harm by creating ill-will than any $$$ you can re-coupe in sales. I have worked with dongled apps for years and they have created hours of endless frustration only to be resolved by going pirate to make things work that I have paid for.

The last thing I want on a shoot is a tool I depend on stopping to work because 1, I forgot the dongle, or 2, the USB port decides to get wonky and things start to work intermittently. If you make it dongleless the pros/advanced amateurs will pay for it.

The kids will pirate it unless an education version is available, but will mature and buy it if their career path takes them to the pro level.

I can't wait, sign me up!

--

Rob

[robfilms]

bena-

the demo was very exciting at the nyc bootcamp. if we could avoid bringing the monitor for the client to watch (if necessary & no monitor for my docu work) but rely on your software for color accuracy and a software bluegun for setting up the image, i'd be there.

at a price point of $500 there would be some how would purchase and plenty others who would attempt to save the money. make it at a $375-ish pricepoint and even the hardcore doubters couldn't resist.

once again, good luck to u. we are all rooting (that is, all but serious magic!)

be well

rob katz
harvest film company

[SamEdwards]

I would love to test whatever you have on a MacBookPro 1.83ghz.
thanks.
Sam

[bena]

Keep it up Ben, How about some screen shots to wet our appetise

I would love to post some picts, but it would be of no use. What I showed was more of a "hey look it all works" but without the final GUI.

So seeing it live was the proof that we are the real deal and we hope that anyone that was considering going to the other product on a new intel mac would wait for our product.

Trust me, I want this to be released as bad as you do.

Ben

[bena]

Bena, How About 1080p 25 and Pal formats? Are you supporting that for monitoring?

I do not have a Pal HVX to test with at the moment.

Basically if Quick time supports the format, we should have no problem supporting it as well.

I was Kind of shocked that Apple did not announce the next QuickTime and FCP at NAB. My guess is that they are either waiting for the new Intel Towers or they need more time and will try to announce and deliver in a very short time frame. Unlike last year where they announced at NAB and we had to wait till Late August to get our hands on it.

[bena]

We are currently working on the "color accuracy" as we speak. We found that the code was pretty CPU hungry, so we are going back and using alti-vec for this.

We plan on having the blue gun calibration too ;')

I am hoping to address the "lite" market as we understand there are people who do not shoot enough to warrant an expensive software purchase.

Ben


bena-

the demo was very exciting at the nyc bootcamp. if we could avoid bringing the monitor for the client to watch (if necessary & no monitor for my docu work) but rely on your software for color accuracy and a software bluegun for setting up the image, i'd be there.

at a price point of $500 there would be some how would purchase and plenty others who would attempt to save the money. make it at a $375-ish pricepoint and even the hardcore doubters couldn't resist.

once again, good luck to u. we are all rooting (that is, all but serious magic!)

be well

rob katz
harvest film company

[bena]

What! YOu don't LOVE Dongles??!!!!

Well me neither!

I know there is nothing we can do to prevent someone somewhere from pirating our software if they really want it. Our hope is that people who will actually depend on our software to make their living will see it as another tool or accessory that they need and will pay for it.

Thats not to say that we are going to make it easy for someone to crack our software, but ultimately we will just have to see how the sales go.

Ben


$395 to $495 I see as a "no brainer", but pleasssssse NO dongle. It does more harm by creating ill-will than any $$$ you can re-coupe in sales. I have worked with dongled apps for years and they have created hours of endless frustration only to be resolved by going pirate to make things work that I have paid for.

The last thing I want on a shoot is a tool I depend on stopping to work because 1, I forgot the dongle, or 2, the USB port decides to get wonky and things start to work intermittently. If you make it dongleless the pros/advanced amateurs will pay for it.

The kids will pirate it unless an education version is available, but will mature and buy it if their career path takes them to the pro level.

I can't wait, sign me up!

--

Rob

[Jarred Land]

I will back up the non post of pics.. it was just a raw outline of the interface, more of a technology demo rather than a visual demo. Bena and Co have alot of work to do, but the scopes and preview portions already running impressed me from a proof of concept standpoint.

[Jarred Land]

oh and about the dongles.. i will never buy a program that requires dongles.

[imgentertainment@mac]

Dongles are a pain in the you know what

[David Saraceno]

oh and about the dongles.. i will never buy a program that requires dongles.

I have six of them sitting in a mesh pencil holder next to my computer.

I only use two now.

However, I also don't like authorizations tied to computer IDs.

[soarprod]

oh and about the dongles.. i will never buy a program that requires dongles.

Then you miss out on the fun apps.

[bena]

A quick update: Screen Calibration and zebra's are up and running now. A couple bugs to squish in the new code and some more GUI massaging. It is coming along very nicely and I can't wait to post the website so you all can see it for yourselves.

Ben

[darwinandpaine]

I will soon be able to beta test on both an older powerbook (you said 6 years old?), and a newer MacBook or MacBook Pro (haven't made my final desicion).

[SteadiChris]

Dongle for copy protection and MacTel Compatiability would be worth at least $500.

[LightSourceMedia]

I would send you the money tommorow for sure.... i agree with Barry on the ideal specs it would include ! def let us know if u ever make one ! im all for it... you guys are all awesome by the way i love this site...

[Jarred Land]

Then you miss out on the fun apps.

lol so be it. Dongles not only have a totally retarted name.. but dont work. 1 week after Avid released its first dongled product someone cracked it. Nobody wins then. Price of software goes way up to offset price of dongle, so people crack it rather than buy it.

[bena]

Quick Update:

The Horizontal and Vertical flips are now in. We got the mini view working too.

Getting closer every day.

Ben

[mcgeedigital]

Tag for the release!

[Peter_Nigrini]

Is thier a projected release date yet?

[Jon Oskar]

Yes how much longer???

[bena]

Trust me I want to release this asap, but I want a rock solid app as I am sure you will want too. We are very close.

I keep coming up with cool new interface ideas and we keep adding them in, and of course you get a bug or two that you need to squish in that process.

We just reworked the screen calibration, you guys are going to love it.

Just hold on a little longer.

Ben

[Anomolee]

Keep up the good work Ben!
We are ALL chomping at the bit for your OSX ultimate HVX utility app!

So of course we are trying to light a fire under your backside :violent5:
:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
:dankk2:

[bena]

We are still here, working hard. We are working on the Demo version and getting the serialization systems in place.

I hope to post the website soon.

Ben

[mattsdp]

500$ would be the perfect price. I agree with Barry, if it did all that, I would payal for it roght now!

[bena]

quick update... I have the first draft of the user guide done. We squashed a bug in the color correction set up. The Demo mode is finished. Currently working on licensing and the last few issues. The websites have been purchased, need to get a site set up and an ordering system in place.

If all goes well it should be out before Aug... crossing fingers....

[dvxStephen]

Bena,

Exciting that you're so close. If you are up for PM or other notification of people that would like to know when your software is ready to ship, I'd be interested. Perhaps a place on a web site that we could sign up for this? (Safer from a spam point of view.)

Thanks,

[dvxStephen]

... than just posting an email address in plain site of the spam robots, that is.

[bena]

I will post info in this thread and create a new topic announcing it.
I also hope to have someone review it too.

Ben

[kwoff]

bena,

Any news on the status of your app? I know you were shooting to have it out before August.

Thanks,
Kevin

[bena]

Hi,

Thanks For asking. We are in the tail end of beta testing. We are setting up the website and purchasing mechanism. I wish there was an exact science to estimating a release date, but the devil is in the details.

You will hear more soon.

Thanks
Ben

[vidled]

What's the current status on using this with a PAL HVX, Ben?
I read an earlier post of yours seeking such a cam for testing.

[Lente Loco Studios]

BEN
This is a MUST HAVE I do not know why nobody said anything before
but anyway. You well know that a lot of us shoot with anywhere form 2 to 6 cameras simultaneously. So you must make it to allow us to record from at least 4 cameras at the same time. I do not care if I have to take my brand new Mac Pro Xeon along with the 30” apple monitor to the set, to be able to handle 4 streams of DV and 2 of HDV
Otherwise would be really expensive... do the math
6x$500=$3000 (your product)
6x$1000=$6000 (a descent powerbook)
$9000.00 plus the cables that you have to buy to conect the cam to the Computer
6 (300Ft) firewire coils @ $1000 each =$6000
Grand Total =$15000.00
Imagine having control over all of you 6 cameras’ settings from a single location sounds soooooooo cooool
So if it has everything Barry said plus THIS I am in too. Even at $600
So please do it

[tbanucci]

This is not possible unless you were to utilize the capability with a Mac Pro only, not the laptops. To record from different firewire streams, each camera needs to be placed on it's own firewire bus. The only company that has gotten close to doing something like you have talked about is the Wirecast product from Vara:

http://www.varasoftware.com/products/wirecast/

[bena]

Lente,

Thats an interesting idea, but I don't know that its technically feasible. There are also limits to how long the Firewire run can be.

It seems you are more looking for a way to record direct to disk for multiple cameras. If each camera operator did not have our app and a screen, how would they know what they were getting?

Keep the idea's coming. Your request has gotten some gears rolling in my head of a cool feature that we will need to look at to see if it is feasible.

Thanks
Ben

[Lente Loco Studios]

Ben
Oh yes it is, you just have to work harder then Canon… the next Version of CONSOLE will support a max of 4 HDV cameras (Rumors form an insider friend of mine)
The downside it works only in freaking windows and it prefers Canon Cameras of course
And as far as the limit of a firewire cable I think 1640 feet (500 meters) is enough don’t you think?
As I can see not a lot of you in here work with big events lets say a football game where some cameras are in the field and the operator is up in the Camera Control Center or a Concert where cameras are in big cranes or on top of buildings sitting on tripods with Zoom/pan tilt capable heads and the operator is 400 Ft away controlling 4 cameras
Docking Cameras is what I am talking about
And as far as the firewire to be in a separate bus FYI my Mac Pro Quad intel has 4 Firewire inputs all on separate buses, that is all what I really need for now (do not start with the “well they are on the same bus thing” because the sets are one firewire 400 and one 800 in the back and front and don’t start with the “but cameras do not use Firewire 800” because you know they sale 400 to 800 (9 pin to 4 pin) cables
Two things are happening here

I)You are just trying to burst my bubble and at the same time stopping ben from harvesting new ideas and therefore making more money
II)Or you are being misinformed and with a lack of imagination “no offence”


Here are some links for those that used to think that firewire cables could not be longer than 15 Ft http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2808 (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2808)

And a link to a device some of you might be interested in “CameraControlCenter” Ben I own one of this, that is how I see what the camera is seeing
http://www.grizzlypro.com/systems.htm (http://www.grizzlypro.com/systems.htm)
My plan is to bundle this system to control the cameras' movement and settings, run a firewire cables from the cameras to the computer (tbanucci Notice that I have never mentioned a Laptop on my posts, I said Intel Mac Pro Quad) and have total control over the cameras

[SIZE=3]Ben how about if you partner with them and offer it as a bundle, [

[THoff]

You cannot go 1640 feet (or anywhere near that) on twisted pair Firewire, either with or without repeaters. Firewire 800 has support for optical connections, but neither your laptop nor your camera has that.

[Lente Loco Studios]

THOFF
I suggest you get informed before you post ok
I never said there is a 1000 ft long firewire cable that is stupid and you are a cave man if you are trying to use repeaters to get to 1640 feet of firewire cable what you need is an extender like the one on the link I posted
plus I have never mentioned laptops
Optical Connection to a camera where in the heck I wrote that . you must be smoking something or you are really illiterate... one of those two has to be
So no I am not wrong or stupid like you implied THOFF

[THoff]

Wow, somebody needs to take a chill pill. Throughout your posts you are calling people cave men, dumb, stupid, illiterate, and uninformed.

You wrote
"And as far as the limit of a firewire cable I think 1640 feet (500 meters) is D$@^m well enough don’t you think"Guess what? That's just plain wrong. The device you referenced is a Firewire extender using fiberoptic cables -- this is not the same as a 1640 foot Firewire cable. Please don't go around calling people names when you are not talking about the same thing.

[bigteethproductions]

I can't even say I know what a Dongle is, other than something that really irritates many dvxusers.

A few things I'll mention after going thru the posts:

1. I definitely agree on the OSX vs. going through the pc program on a mac (whatever its called). Part of the reason I work on macs is to avoid the PC world and its crashes and viruses. Though it seems that was an older issue.

2. As far as licenses and such, I will say that I think Apple has been very unfriendly in their license purchasing for software. I am a very small company (notice I refer to the company as "I") and was not too happy that to run my Final Cut Pro on my laptop and desktop at the same time I would have to disable my network. I would have been up for purchasing a second license if it was remotely reasonable - but Apple takes off a whole $100 from the list price. Ridiculous and not gonna help their pirating issues.

Which is a long way of getting to the point of maybe if the software comes with one (or two) licenses, to purchase others make it a fair amount less than the entire software program.

But all in all, this sounds great and now I have to add it to my constantly expanding list of "I want that's". GREAT!!:crybaby: :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

[Lente Loco Studios]

THOFF
I suggest you get informed before you post ok
I never said there is a 1000 ft long firewire cable that is stupid and you are a cave man if you are trying to use repeaters to get to 1640 feet of firewire cable what you need is an extender like the one on the link I posted
plus I have never mentioned laptops
Optical Connection to a camera where in the heck I wrote that . you must be smoking something or you are really illiterate... one of those two has to be
So no I am not wrong or stupid like you implied THOFF
THoff go back to school you do not know how to read
tell me where am I calling you stupid? I only mentioned it because you implieded I was such

[THoff]

THoff go back to school you do not know how to read
tell me where am I calling you stupid? I only mentioned it because you implieded I was suchMy mistake -- you implied earlier that I had called you stupid, which I did not. In fact, I have refrained from using any derogatory terms -- that is something only you have done.

The other terms (dumb, misinformed, cave man, illiterate, uninformed) you did use in your posts. Anyway, I don't see a point in continuing this exchange. Have a nice day.

[Lente Loco Studios]

Wow, somebody needs to take a chill pill. Throughout your posts you are calling people cave men, dumb, stupid, illiterate, and uninformed.

You wrote Guess what? That's just plain wrong. The device you referenced is a Firewire extender using fiberoptic cables -- this is not the same as a 1640 foot Firewire cable. Please don't go around calling people names when you are not talking about the same thing.


let me explain it for you
Step one:
you buy your Firewire Extender along with a 300 Ft long 2 strand LC-LC Fiber Optic cable
Step Two:
plug one end of the optical cable to the Firewire Receiver and the other end to the Firewire transmitter
Step 3:
connect the 3 feet long firewire cables supplied with the extender
connect one cable from the camcorder to the FireWire transmitter
Step 4
Got to the other side, where your computer and receiver are and Connect the second supplied firewire cable from the computer to the receiver and whooala you have a 300Ft long "FireWire Cable"
THoff
if you still do not understand I could explain how a fiber optic cable can double as firewire cable I could Perhaps send you my up-comming book
Connecting Cables For Dummies By "ALB"
watch for it in bookstores near you

[Lente Loco Studios]

My mistake -- you implied earlier that I had called you stupid, which I did not. In fact, I have refrained from using any derogatory terms -- that is something only you have done.

The other terms (dumb, misinformed, cave man, illiterate, uninformed) you did use in your posts. Anyway, I don't see a point in continuing this exchange. Have a nice day.


I am sorry
I just got out of wack
have a good one you too
sorry everybody:(
man I feel bad now

[Barry_Green]

Yes, this got dangerously close to crossing the line as per our terms of use (or perhaps it did cross it). Please back off, no personal attacks or insults are tolerated here. Thanks.

[Lente Loco Studios]

Yeah I feel really bad
I will not happen again I promise

[brianluce]

I've been comparing dvrack to edius 4 and can't really see much that dv rack does that edius can't. Is the color accuracy thing? I brought this up in another thread and someone directed me to the SM website. I looked and still don't get it. Can someone explain what Ben's and SM do that is so unique? Why do we need this product when we have these powerful NLE's like FCP and Edius?

And btw, what is the name of this new Mac system, DV Mack? You guys need a name.

[Captain Cowbell]

This sounds like a great product, and would enable me to *finally* make a decision on which macbook pro to buy... One of the simplesy but main features for me would be that I would want to be able to trigger the recording via the record button on my HDV camera - with the laptop lid shut. This will allow me to walk around with the laptop in a rucksack recording straight to disk - for wedding shoots, conferences etc..

Do we know at this stage whether I would need a 7200rpm internal drive to do the above with this proposed new product?

I would much prefer to buy this than DVrack via bootcamp if at all possible - and presumably i'll get m2t (?) files that I believe FCP (via FCP Suite 5.1) will handle naitively?


Thanks.

[j8jweb]

Just like to register my interest in this, for a PAL version. You'd get a huge amount of business from the PAL market I am sure.

[THoff]

Captain Cowbell, I used to use a P4M 1.5GHz laptop with a 4200RPM drive to capture DV video using DV Rack, and never had a dropped frame. HDV's bandwidth is essentially the same as DV25.

DV Rack has a 1024 frame buffer, so even if your hard drive is temporarily busy with another I/O request, you shouldn't experience dropped frames.

Regarding the issue of starting/stopping recording when the camera does, you can slave DV Rack to the camera, or instruct it to ignore what the camera is doing and use manual start/stop only.

[Captain Cowbell]

Thanks THoff - appreciate the info, I don't normally do too well when asking questions on these forum thingies, so it was great to get your help... and the good news is it means I can go get myself a MBP this week without having to order it from t'internet! (you can only get 5400rpm drives in the shops - for some reason 7200rpm is an online order only option??).

Now do I go 15" or 17" for the f/w 800 which may gobble up more battery time... hmmmm it's never easy is it :)

Have you ever tried DVrack using one of those "virtualisation" / "parallel" tools for the Intels rather than bootcamp? If so how did you get on?

Also, do you happen to know how well the various tools work for stopping your MBP going to sleep when the lids down? Especially when running a PC app on an MBP? Have you ever tried any of these with DVrack?

Thanks again!

CC

[THoff]

Sorry, I've never used DV Rack on Apple hardware and can't be of any help there. I do know from reading the Serious Magic forums that people are having great success with Bootcamp, but whether one virtualization technology has a clear advantage over another, I can't tell.

Regarding the hard drive speed, one thing you could do is swap it out yourself. You can get a 160GB 7200RPM perpendicular recording technology laptop drive for under $200 from NewEgg, drop it into the laptop, and reinstall the OS. That would give you not only a much faster drive, but also lots of space for recording and possibly editing.

[Sunstream]

bena,
It is now Sept, whats the latest?

[Mars United]

^ What Sunstream said ...

Plus, this is exactly what I'm looking for as far as a workflow solution. Very, very cool. If DVC Rack was for Mac OS I'd go with that, but ...

[bena]

Oh so very close all. Lots of loose ends coming together as we speak, mostly business issues, like website and users guide.

Really we are just that close.

Ben

[electricpig]

Will you be running a beta?

[bena]

Beta is done... Evil Grin ;')

[Mars United]

I'm pretty new here, as far as posting goes, but I'm pretty sure evil is not tolerated on these boards ... so, you had better come clean! :D

[kwoff]

I second what Mars United said. Hope we can get the full skinny soon.

[bena]

Be on the look out next week.... Let the games begin!

Ben

[vidled]

Be on the look out next week.... Let the games begin!

Ben

Great! :thumbsup:

[Spartacus]

So how about recording PAL framerates?
Is that added now?

[bena]

The Time is Nigh. Tomorrow we launch. More soon.

[Mars United]

Thanks for the teaser. Very cool. Looking forward to more info.

:beer:

[Jeff C]

Woo Hoo!!! I can't wait to see the website. I've been waiting for something like this since I found out about DVRack!!

[Moggy]

This is very exciting news, I just found this thread (right on time it seems) and can't wait to take a look at this software, congratulations!

[CaptainSKA]

I know you said this is only the beginning, but can you tell us if you guys intend on supporting HD, recording, scopes, or any of the other DV Rack-like features?? Also, if these come in future versions, what's the upgrade path look like? Free, discount, full price??

[bena]

CaptainSKA,

Yes!

When we release the software with the features you mentioned, it will be a different product. We will have upgrade paths if you purchased DV Monitor.

Let me just point out, I showed scopes and HD running at the NY HVX boot camp in July.

Just like building a house, you need to build a good foundation. DV Monitor is our foundation. We want to get it out in the wild and see if there are any issues as we continue our efforts to bring you rock solid and user friendly products.

I hope everyone understands that a lot of work has gone into this product and we are working hard to allow Mac users to have all the functionality of that other PC only APP and sooo much more. Let me point out our Screen Calibration for instance. We had programed basic color bars just like that Other PC APP. Then we said "hmm, does it really need to be this complicated?"

I have a 16mm film background and have never used color bars. I was playing with the Demo of that PC app and I was like "ok, um, I pressed the color bars buttons, now what?!?" I spent 10 mins digging through their documentation to find the screen calibration instructions! What a waste of time!

So we as good Mac developers, decided to improve upon the process and we are very happy with our super ez screen calibration ( see the demo here http://www.redlightningsoftware.com/Video.html ).

Where else can a complete novice calibrate their screen in under 30 seconds? We felt that spending the time to get these features right was more important then getting a half baked full featured app out. Now that we have this done, we can concentrate on new features.

The same goes for our Mini View window ( see the demo here http://www.redlightningsoftware.com/Mini%20View.html). We felt we needed these as core functions. We went through a lot of trial and error to get it to be as easy and functional as it is now, all of which took time.

I know this doesn't make it any easier to wait for, but I too want these features as a shooter and I have to wait too.

Your support in purchasing DV Monitor will help us reach our goals of delivering new software quicker and you will be able to upgrade to our Pro level software products with no worries.

Thanks

[Mars United]

So, supports SD only? No HD?

Too bad.

Looks great for a DVX though, congrats!

[bena]

Hi Mars,

DV Monitor is SD only. HD is coming in a new product that I can't speak too much about yet.

And DV Monitor will work with the HVX in SD mode.

Feel free to download it and try it out, we are looking for any positive or negative feedback we can get to make the product better.

Thanks

[Mars United]

That was quick! Just reading another thread ...

Thanks! I look forward to checking out your upgrades into HD territory! All the best.

[vidled]

Ben:
good job on the website (although Opera on PC doesn't display it properly), and the launch. The feature-movies are very well done, and this product is off to a good start, by the looks of things.

Although I can't deny the fact that I am a little disappointed that this starts as a DV only product. I was certainly expecting it to be an HD product, even at its initial launch. That is based -erroneously as it turns out- on the initial post in this thread, and the exciting demonstration at the NYC Bootcamp.

Good to read you're developing this further into the HD version, and it sure looks like a great product for the Mac community!
Kudos! :thumbsup:

[bena]

Vidled,

Its just a matter of time ;')

Before you know it you will be enjoying what your little heart desires and soo much more.

Ps. Hows it going figuring out the mic inputs on the HVX?

[vidled]

"matter of time":
Sweet!

Mics:
It's all back together right now...I'll take another swing at it soon, now that I know [somewhat] what's inside. Gathering the items necessary for testing and experimenting and such, now...

[bena]

It looks like my press release got pulled from the site :'(

Here is a link to it for those of you who missed it.

http://www.redlightningsoftware.com/9-13%20Press%20release.html

[kwoff]

I notice that your website says that this is SD only. Will something similar for the HVX in its HD modes be coming? Is this the same product you demoed at the NYC Bootcamp?

Thanks,
Kevin

[Look 1st]

1st off Ben, thank you for taking the time to develop this much needed app.
I downloaded the demo and so far I am very impressed!

Can you talk a little bit about the upgrade paths that will be available once the full blown HD version (recording, scopes, etc) is released.

Thanks again and I look forward purchasing and using your software.

[robbo]

I've had quick play with it as well.
The ol' bouncing demo routine, ehh. Comes on a bit too quick IMNSHO ...

Looks good - and I'd need to play with it longer to begin to trust my pb 17" screen.
But it's almost bang on with my Apple 20" and what I see on my PVM. Well done !
That's on PAL, btw.

[bena]

Hi Look,

Thanks for taking the time to check out our wares.

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that purchasers of DV Monitor will be able to upgrade to our future products. I can't get too specific as we are not at the point of needing to decide the exact method we will take.

What would your preference be, to keep DV Monitor and get a break on the price of the next product for being a loyal customer or to apply the amount you paid for DV Monitor towards the newer feature rich product but no longer have use of DV Monitor once you have the better program? Or do you have another idea of a fair way to let our users upgrade?

Also keep in mind, our current customers will have a lot more pull in what features we will put in the next product, since we want to keep the installed base happy.

[bena]

I've had quick play with it as well.
The ol' bouncing demo routine, ehh. Comes on a bit too quick IMNSHO ...

Looks good - and I'd need to play with it longer to begin to trust my pb 17" screen.
But it's almost bang on with my Apple 20" and what I see on my PVM. Well done !
That's on PAL, btw.


Hi Robbo,

Its a tough call to decide how much demo time is enough vs. having too much and everyone just uses the demo without purchasing the full license.

Glad you liked the calibration. We aim to get you in the ball park as LCD's and CRT's are very different beasts.

Does anyone miss using color bars to calibrate or is that old news compared to the way we calibrate?

[Look 1st]

What would your preference be, to keep DV Monitor and get a break on the price of the next product for being a loyal customer or to apply the amount you paid for DV Monitor towards the newer feature rich product but no longer have use of DV Monitor once you have the better program?

well, if DV Monitor is incorporated in the newer product i guess we wouldnt need to keep the old version around, so I think I would want to apply what I paid for DVM towards the new product.

Im not going to lie, DV Rack has my attention with their new release, but i just dont like the idea of having to use boot camp to run it. Id prefer to stay on ONE platform or another but not BOTH to shoot with my HVX (thats hard enough as it is)

[OnLoMark]

Gee. It's a shame this software won't run on a PC. After all, aren't like 95% of all computers PCs? What were the developers thinking when they decided to snub such a sizeable market? Especially since it's not that big a deal to port an app across to the other platform (at least that's what I've read in a number of threads where folks were slamming that Other Company for not porting that Other PC APP to the Mac--I presume it goes both ways.)

[Spartacus]

Is there a forum rule not to name other company´s names producing similar products?
DVrack is for PC, DV Monitor is for the Mac - and they lived happily ever after...
Basically I like the idea of having a choice (even if it becomes a platform choice in this case...), both companies will strife to produce the better product, or at least always keep up with the other.
What really disappointed me is having this thread in the HVX section, I don´t think it is fair business implying to offer sth that turns out as sth else on deliverance.
No offence, but in the DVX section you´ll also find more costumers for a SD application. (Maybe you crossposted, didn´t check...)
Nevertheless I´m looking forward to a HD version.

[rgbuser]

While we're talking about the options growing before our eyes, don't forget Redrock Revolution (http://www.redrockmicro.com/revolution.htm) - that's for XP or Mac, promises HDV (but not HD), 16:9 on squeeze, as well as screen calibration. DV Rack looks to me to offer best specs, but runs on on XP. Oh well, nothing's perfect. But all this development activity augurs well for the future. Thank you, developers - whatever platform you're working on!

[kwoff]

Revolution is described on Redrock's sight as supporting HDV, but DVCPro HD is not mentioned. For anyone who is looking at this option, I thought I would mention that I emailed them a month or two ago to ask if the HVX was supported in HD modes and they responded that it is not at this time. Apparently, this may change in the future.

Kevin

[Look 1st]

Gee. It's a shame this software won't run on a PC. After all, aren't like 95% of all computers PCs? What were the developers thinking when they decided to snub such a sizeable market? Especially since it's not that big a deal to port an app across to the other platform (at least that's what I've read in a number of threads where folks were slamming that Other Company for not porting that Other PC APP to the Mac--I presume it goes both ways.)

Im sorry I found this disturbing and child like.
Your product is already on the market with no support for mac users (at least not natively supported) Will it ever be?
Why would another product need to be made like 'DV Rack' for both Mac and PC users when DV Rack is already out there (and a very good product too!) for the PC crowd?

I know what you were getting at in your post but i personally feel youve gone about it the wrong way.

Id buy DV Rack HD if it were a mac app, but its not. Nothing wrong with that, but i need something that functions like DV Rack, just on a Apple.

[Mars United]

Im sorry I found this disturbing and child like.
Your product is already on the market with no support for mac users (at least not natively supported) Will it ever be?
Why would another product need to be made like 'DV Rack' for both Mac and PC users when DV Rack is already out there (and a very good product too!) for the PC crowd?

I know what you were getting at in your post but i personally feel youve gone about it the wrong way.

Id buy DV Rack HD if it were a mac app, but its not. Nothing wrong with that, but i need something that functions like DV Rack, just on a Apple.
I think The Other Mark (or, his company) has taken some jabs over the course of this thread and I can completely understand his response.

I agree with the person who said it was misleading to imply that this was an HVX solution (DV Monitor) and now we find out that we have to wait for that. Good hype, but bad marketing in the long run. I won't be as excited next time I read about an HD update to DV Monitor.

So, we have:

DVC Rack that has great reviews, but runs only on Windows
DV Monitor that only does SD
And now Redrock that only does HDV?

That's almost comical. I think I've decided on my likely work flow. Stream to DVC Rack on an el cheapo PC laptop. Then edit on a Mac Pro. I don't like windows at all, but I realized, what better laptop to bring into the field than something you won't cry about when it gets dropped or rained on ... no offence to PC likers.

So, Serious Magic has my vote. Why should you care what I have to say? You shouldn't.

Cheers! :beer:

[KarlSoule]

Let me apologize on Mark's behalf. Here at Serious Magic, we've been operating on a 48-hour work day for the past couple of weeks getting DV Rack 2.0 out the door. I think the lack of sleep has made us all a little cranky.

We'd love to have a native Mac version - believe me, it's one of our number one requested features. I used to work for Apple myself, and it was one of my first questions when I came here. Unfortunately, our technology is too closely tied with Windows API's to make it easy. What we do on a very low level requires Windows to do it. There isn't a similar function on the MacOs at this time. Boot Camp is one option that works well. We have been looking at Parallels for Mac as a potential "perfect solution," but they haven't perfected their DirectX support just yet. Maybe in the near future.

I don't want to pollute this thread any further, but let me just say kudos to Ben and his team for trying to address this need in the marketplace, and best of luck to further development of your product!

[OnLoMark]

Im sorry I found this disturbing and child like.

I meant no offense. My post was meant as a good-natured jab--and not even at Ben and his company but rather at those who have tossed essentially the same arguments from the other side of the fence (or "platform," if you prefer). I just couldn't resist the irony.

Since we at Serious Magic have not filled this niche for the Mac market (and for sound business reasons, I hasten to add), I'm glad that Mac users who are averse to running Windows under Bootcamp now have at least the beginning of what they've been begging us for.

The only thing I'm bitter about is that Ben & co. implemented a calibration wizard before us--I had that idea a couple years ago, but it never made the cut. Now, if we do it, it'll look like we're copying the "Other Mac Company."

[n8ture]

The calibration wizard is pretty sweet. Even my tired eyes can get it right the first time. :)

[Sumfun]

Since we at Serious Magic have not filled this niche for the Mac market (and for sound business reasons, I hasten to add), I'm glad that Mac users who are averse to running Windows under Bootcamp now have at least the beginning of what they've been begging us for.


I don't think the Mac market is a niche market. While it's true that about 90% of computers are PC's, about 80% of video editors use Mac (FCP and Avid). I think Serious Magic (or Red Lightning) can tap into a very lucrative market if they can supply a good product for Mac.

[OnLoMark]

I wasn't referring to the Mac user base as a niche market but rather to the product space that DV Rack and DV Monitor now share.

[Sumfun]

Okay, cool. Sorry I misunderstood you there.

[bena]

Gee. It's a shame this software won't run on a PC. After all, aren't like 95% of all computers PCs? What were the developers thinking when they decided to snub such a sizeable market? Especially since it's not that big a deal to port an app across to the other platform (at least that's what I've read in a number of threads where folks were slamming that Other Company for not porting that Other PC APP to the Mac--I presume it goes both ways.)

Hi Mark...

I think you are confused that 95% of all computers are PC's. Maybe you meant 95% of all PCs run windows? My car, watch and now my toothbrush all have computers in them, but they are not PCs.

We are not snubbing any markets, there seems to already be a fairly big fish in the other pond. Since we are the Only fish in this little pond here in Mac'ville, we hope to do ok. We could be wrong about that. We might have to pull a SnakeHead (google it) and walk on over to your pond and start snacking on your food.

I don't know about porting, but we could certainly hire a Windows programer :) But that would make us feel all yucky inside.

I do think that our little Mac pond is going to grow now that the "Intel Inside" warning sticker is on our shiny new machines.

Its such a shame that IBM forgot about PowerPC and Apple in its quest to make chips for the Game consoles. Seems funny to me that the Brand new core duo chip is about the same speed as my 3-4 year old G5 chip in my dual 2 ghz. And the new intel chips in the new Quad still can't touch the ancient Alti-vec / velocity engine in speed. But then again as a share holder its a good thing. Seems to be a curse and a blessing.

Of corse I long for the good old Atari ST days! Your TOS on a Rom, wow can you say stable OS that never corrupts? Can't say that about windows or OS 9.

Thanks for chiming in

Ben

[bena]

What really disappointed me is having this thread in the HVX section, I don´t think it is fair business implying to offer sth that turns out as sth else on deliverance.
No offence, but in the DVX section you´ll also find more costumers for a SD application. (Maybe you crossposted, didn´t check...)
Nevertheless I´m looking forward to a HD version.

Hi Spartacus,

Sorry to disappoint. We do Have HD running. We do have Scopes running. Ask anyone that was at the NY or LA HVX boot camps, we demoed these features.

I personally own an HVX, so I want this as much as you do. BUT, first things first, we needed a foundation to build off of. Those cool GUI and super EZ screen calibration took time away from HD and other things. But would you or anyone else been happy if we skimped on the interface and ease of use to cram more features in?

We felt that there might be users out there that would benefit from having DV Monitor now, while we slave away at bigger and better things.

I would like everyone to know that we have been working on DV Monitor for less than 4 months. I wish I had a magic wand to get more hours in the day to get more work done.

We did not intend to deceive or mislead anyone, nor do I think I promised anything that would mislead you. There was talk about features and goals and we mean to offer Mac users an excellent product that they will be proud to call their own.

Thanks
Ben

[bena]

Hi Karl,

No offense taken. We too have been working long and hard on our software, funny that both our products launched the same day ;)

It would be great if you stuck to the windows API's (wink wink) I think that is an excellent idea :)

Nothing to see here.. move along...

Seriously, we are just frustrated Mac people who wanted some Love. Since there was no Love to be had, we had to create our own.

Gee, is it really 5am now? No sleep for the wicked.

Thanks for welcoming us to the party.

Ben


Let me apologize on Mark's behalf. Here at Serious Magic, we've been operating on a 48-hour work day for the past couple of weeks getting DV Rack 2.0 out the door. I think the lack of sleep has made us all a little cranky.

We'd love to have a native Mac version - believe me, it's one of our number one requested features. I used to work for Apple myself, and it was one of my first questions when I came here. Unfortunately, our technology is too closely tied with Windows API's to make it easy. What we do on a very low level requires Windows to do it. There isn't a similar function on the MacOs at this time. Boot Camp is one option that works well. We have been looking at Parallels for Mac as a potential "perfect solution," but they haven't perfected their DirectX support just yet. Maybe in the near future.

I don't want to pollute this thread any further, but let me just say kudos to Ben and his team for trying to address this need in the marketplace, and best of luck to further development of your product!

[bena]

Hi Mark,

Man I hate the word Wizard, who thought that up anyways, hmm I wonder if his name starts with B and ends with G and he just happens to be the richest man in the world, and has a monkey boy (google monkey boy dance ) running the show?

Our EZ calibration is thanks to your product. I have never calibrated color bars, coming from a 16mm film background, so I was completely lost playing with your product. So being the good little Mac loving inovator that I am, I said well how about we make this easier and quicker? And after a few weeks of work we came up with a solution that I think works very well for beginners and pros alike.

Ben

Ps "Oh, one more thing... Warm up your copying machines"

PPs is it worth protecting our new ideas?




The only thing I'm bitter about is that Ben & co. implemented a calibration wizard before us--I had that idea a couple years ago, but it never made the cut. Now, if we do it, it'll look like we're copying the "Other Mac Company."

[Spartacus]

We did not intend to deceive or mislead anyone, nor do I think I promised anything that would mislead you.
Well, you posted in the HVX section, I would call that a little misleading ;o)
But forget about that, you´ll need all your time and energy to get that HD version up and running hehehe

Take care,

Spart

[Curnsie]

Ben

I'm glad to see a product like this for the Mac. I really don't want to have to return to windows on any laptop!

Its problably mentioned somewhere here, but will your product support the JVC HD100?


Thanks




Andrew

[kenackr]

I don't think the Mac market is a niche market. While it's true that about 90% of computers are PC's, about 80% of video editors use Mac (FCP and Avid). I think Serious Magic (or Red Lightning) can tap into a very lucrative market if they can supply a good product for Mac.

Sumfun,

Where did you get your numbers from regarding 80% of video editors use mac & avid? I'd like to know how you substantiate them.

Consider that there are many good editing programs out there for Windows and that some of them are backed by big names like Sony and Adobe. These folks have full time staffs (called marketing) that figure out which market place they can get the most bang for the buck from. Those engines are money driven and savvy business people. I doubt that they jump on the wrong bus.

There is no quibble that Avid tops the "Pro" editing environment or at least has a lion's share of it.

At any rate, I don't have hard and fast numbers but I'd be glad to believe what you said if you can lay down your source that is verifiable.

Thanks,

Ken :beer:

[Sumfun]

Sumfun,

Where did you get your numbers from regarding 80% of video editors use mac & avid? I'd like to know how you substantiate them.



The only way to really find out for sure who's using what is to get sales numbers from Apple, Avid, Adobe, etc. , which will never happen. But just from my experience (which is not all that significant), I would say that most editors are using Mac. (I'm a PC user who's seriously considering switching).

The 80% number that I was referring to came from a survey I saw on Creative Cow. It's not scientific, but it's something. Here's the latest numbers that I could find (as of 8/13/06). My quote came from an earlier survey result which had FCP at about 60%.

"The results so far.... In our Monthly Survey (After weeks of voting)
Which NLE do you prefer to use the most?
35.42% Apple Final Cut Pro/Final Cut Express
40.18% Avid Nonlinear Editing Systems
13.39% Sony Vegas
10.12% Adobe Premiere Pro
0.89% Media 100

336 people have voted in this poll."

http://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_read_post.cgi?univpostid=857604&forumid=4&postid=857665&pview=t

:beer:

[THoff]

At an HVX Bootcamp in Los Angeles, and informal "hands up" and subsequent breakout sessions for the two platforms indicate that at least 80% of the attendees were using FCP on a Mac.

Among the remaining PC users, I was the only one that used Canopus Edius 4 Broadcast, arguably the most complete and painless P2 solution.

[kenackr]

Sumfun,

Thanks for the response.

I would have guessed it would have been more in the PC's favor, but a guess is all it would have been.

I personally use a mac for all video and audio work primarily because I found the early Mac only audio programs were, at one time, head & shoulders better than what was available on PC.

When I got into video, I tried Avid, didn't like it, and went to FCP that seemed much more user friendly to me. It also didn't hurt that at that time, that I could get some great features in Final Cut, at way less money AND keep audio on the same platform.

Having said that, I do everything else on PC. Sort of like riding 2 horses with a foot on each.

Ken :)

[Jarred Land]

At an HVX Bootcamp I was the only one that used Canopus Edius 4 Broadcast, arguably the most complete and painless P2 solution.

not even arguable.. it is by far the easiest, complete P2 solution. I would almost say its the only P2 solution and everything else out there are just band aids.

and yes im on mac and use FCP.. but Edius just doest it right.

[peter orland]

If I was recording to FCP direct capture, would it be possible to switch the camera (HVX, of course) to dv mode to use this application for focusing and flip and zebra etc...(for use with the M2 adapter) then switch back to HD for capture? Could you have both programmes open at the same time without any problems?

Thanks

[bena]

Hi Peter,

I have not tried the work flow you have described, but I can think of a few reasons that it would not work.

We are working on HD solutions of our software as well as recording and scopes.

The best work flow for now would be to shoot to P2 in DV 50 mode and use DV Monitor as your Focus, Flip, Exposure monitor.

You can visit our website and email us directly. We put current customers at the top of our Beta tester list, so you could be one of the first people to get your hands on the new features.

Ben

[peter orland]

Hi Peter,I have not tried the work flow you have described, but I can think of a few reasons that it would not work.
Ben

What are the reasons?

Thanks

[kwoff]

bena,

Am I inferring properly from your most recent post that your HD app with scopes and recording is not yet in beta? I am trying to get a sense of where the app you demo'd at the NYC Bootcamp stands and when it might be available, if it is far enough along that you feel you have a reasonable basis for giving an estimate.

Thanks for any info you can provide.

Kevin

[bena]

What are the reasons?

Thanks

Well for one thing, when you switch Rez in the HVX your break the Firewire connection between the camera and the Computer. I am not sure if FCP handles this differently, but currently our app would need to be restarted to get the Video stream working again.

Is it that you don't currently have a P2 card that you would shoot direct into FCP?

Would having an HD version of DV Monitor allow you to shoot to P2 without going to FCP as you are trying to do now?

[bena]

Kwoff,

Much like Apple we can't show our hand until we are ready. I am sure Serious M has a keen interest in what we are doing and would love to know our plans, dates and prices.

We are only about 4 months into development and we have already shown that we have HD, scopes and recording functions working. We want to polish what we have and test it well. If our software is not Bullet proof when we release we will get bad word of mouth and for a little Mac development company, that could be the kiss of death.

We will always be needing Beta testers, as we have so many ideas for this product space.

I think our new motto will be "Innovation without limitation"

I know it sucks waiting for us, but the alternative is to wait for that PC app, and well lets just say I don't see that happening anytime soon, for the Mac is missing some magical "windows API's" ;)

Hang in there, you may be tempted by the "Dark Side" now, but sometime in the future when we blast our product onto the scene, you will say "wow they weren't kidding about making a real kick ass product"

[SurJones]

Well as for the Software upgrades that you are talking about.

My suggestion is to do it like Apple does. You buy, and there is a set upgrade fee. Reasonable is the key. However with the price of this application, the reasonable margin is very slim. However I have d-loaded the Demo of the SD version, and Even though I dont shoot SD., I WAS SOOOOOO FREAKIN IMPRESSED. Showed my partner and wife:) and She was just amazed. Your off to a great start.

[Spartacus]

Hey bena,
is there any timeframe when to expect a HD version yet?

[CaptainSKA]

Dude, read about two posts up... he just answered this question...

[Spartacus]

Dude, read about two posts up... he just answered this question...
Oh, yeah, right: "(...)but sometime in the future when we blast our product onto the scene" he gave a "timeframe", stupid me...
So, d u d e why do you think I asked again?

[bena]

Spartacus,

Would you be happy with a High Def version of DV Monitor as it is now? Would that hold you over until we can finish our other products?

[CaptainSKA]

Oh, yeah, right: "(...)but sometime in the future when we blast our product onto the scene" he gave a "timeframe", stupid me...
So, d u d e why do you think I asked again?
Probably because you didn't read this statement...


Much like Apple we can't show our hand until we are ready.
I understand it was easy to miss... being the first statement he made and all. Or maybe it was difficult to understand since it was directly answering the question of "When will this be available?"

But hey, thanks for showing maturity by making fun of a word I chose to use... gave me a chuckle in an otherwise busy day...

[Look 1st]

Spartacus,

Would you be happy with a High Def version of DV Monitor as it is now? Would that hold you over until we can finish our other products?

Probably :thumbup:

Throw in Recording ability..

ABSOLUTELY:D:bath:

[peter orland]

Is it that you don't currently have a P2 card that you would shoot direct into FCP?
No. But for some things , like shooting live band gigs, it is easier and quicker to capture straight to the macbook.


Would having an HD version of DV Monitor allow you to shoot to P2 without going to FCP as you are trying to do now?

For me personally, having a HD version of DV Monitor wouldn't dictate whether or not to capture to P2 or the Lappy, the job and the type of shooting would.

But, if like you asked Spartacus "Would you be happy with a High Def version of DV Monitor as it is now? Would that hold you over until we can finish our other products?" Then that would be great, as I could use it for the moment with the HVX as a field monitor with flip facility and Zebra etc...If that was available now, and works, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it at your current pricing.

For me, the ability to capture into one of these software solutions (your's, Dv Rack) isn't that big a deal, Final Cut does a more than adequate job of capturing directly into the NLE that we use for editing. I can understand that for the PC users, something like the DV Rack with the ability to capture to the hard drive, and with all it's other excellent features, would be a great piece of kit. If I was set up on the PC side I would have already bought it.

But you guys are developing a product that runs on the MAC, and us Mac users with FCP can already capture (admittedly with not as many features - waveform etc...) to the computer...so..?

If your product eventually ends up like a Mac version of DV Rack with all the same type of features - capture, monitor, scopes etc, then that will be great and it should sell well. But for now, if you are holding back releasing a version that can be used with HD for monitoring until you have all the other pieces in place, then I think you are losing potential customers right now, me for one.

Thanks

[Spartacus]

Spartacus,

Would you be happy with a High Def version of DV Monitor as it is now? Would that hold you over until we can finish our other products?

Actually I´m more interested in the recording option right now, but the decision for HD Monitor in the long run would probably be the monitoring, just like Peter stated, since the FCP update would solve the PAL recording problem for me (not tested yet of course, but expected to work...).
Do you think, you would offer a Monitor only solution sans the recording option, for those who want to record with FCP?
Do you see any advantages of recording with your product over recording with FCP?

[bena]

I don't think you can have 2 apps sharing the same Video stream at the same time, so that might cause an issue with trying to monitor with our software and recording direct to disk with FCP at the same time.

Now it might be possible for us to let go of the video stream when our App is not the foreground app. No promises, we can look into it.

At least you would be able to get critical focus and exposure, then switch to FCP for D2D, until we have the all in one solution ready.

[Lente Loco Studios]

Lente,

Thats an interesting idea, but I don't know that its technically feasible. There are also limits to how long the Firewire run can be.

It seems you are more looking for a way to record direct to disk for multiple cameras. If each camera operator did not have our app and a screen, how would they know what they were getting?

Keep the idea's coming. Your request has gotten some gears rolling in my head of a cool feature that we will need to look at to see if it is feasible.

Thanks
Ben


:) Recording D2D from multiple cameras:dankk2:

""There are also limits to how long the Firewire run can be.""
Our local TV station has some cameras controled from about 300 Ft away over firewire and optic cable. the set up is really close to how I described before, so do not tell me it does not work because I wen to see it for my self, after all of you made me doubt it

As for ""If each camera operator did not have our app and a screen, how would they know what they were getting?""
Remember that the only operator will be Me, My self and I, just like I am doing it now with this device to control the motion "Pan, Zoom, and Tilt http://grizzlypro.com/systems.htm#rthreels But I like your product to do the other things this one canot do

To make it short, your software will do calibration and D2D Rec and the grizzly will do the motion..that way I will be almost unnoticeable with total control of at least 3 cameras

Thank you Bena for giving us this wonderful app and remember do not let cannon beat you with their up-coming console app for macs

[bena]

Just wanted to let everyone know that we have released an update to DV Monitor.

We now Support Anamorphic widescreen and allow the user to set custom colors to each Guide overlay.

Check out the website for more details.

Thanks
Ben

[bena]

We are currently doing a full low level rewrite of DV Monitor to take advantage of Core Image and other things to talk directly to the camera. This will mean much lower CPU usage when using the screen calibration and flipping.

Recording is coming a long nicely.

We will be At DV Expo, more than likely in the Pro Max booth.

We will also be showing at the LA FCPUG on Nov 15th.

More as things develop.

[sheesh]

Does anyone have experience with BTV Pro? http://www.bensoftware.com/btvpro.html

[Look 1st]

We are currently doing a full low level rewrite of DV Monitor to take advantage of Core Image and other things to talk directly to the camera. This will mean much lower CPU usage when using the screen calibration and flipping.

Recording is coming a long nicely.

We will be At DV Expo, more than likely in the Pro Max booth.

We will also be showing at the LA FCPUG on Nov 15th.

More as things develop.

:thumbup::thumbup:~ looking forward to more developments

[msamstag]

I'm a long time lurker and first time poster. I have to say that I was disappointed with my first DV Monitor experience. I downloaded the software on my 12" PB G4 867mhz with 640MB of RAM and 20 free gigs and hooked up my DVX100a with no success. The application repeatedly quits and try to restart.

Don't get me wrong, I know this PB barely meets the tech specs but I was hoping it would at least function as a monitor and save me some rentals on a nine inch field monitor. I sent an e-mail to tech support about four hours ago and have not had a response yet.

I have been waiting for DV Monitor to support the HVX before upgrading my DVX and this was certainly not a promising first experience. I am still very excited about the prospect of using DV Monitor for my DVX and eventually my HVX but would like to be sure of what the tech specs are before I decide I need to get a faster laptop.

Has anyone else had similar results?

Thanks,
Michael Samstag
Director, War & Truth (http://www.underfirefilms.com)

[David Saraceno]

Hate to confirm what you said, but that PB 12" doesn't even come close to the CPU power to do what apps like DV Monitor require.

Moreover, it is a couple of generations old.

Might want to try the app on a beafier model before being disapppointed.

[msamstag]

I'm fully prepared to go out and buy a new laptop to make this work. However, according to Bena, and the minimum spec on the website, my little 867 should work.

Here's what Bena said in an earlier quote:

"We are close, but we are still optimizing the software to make a 6 year old Powerbooks a viable platform, no promises that we will ultimately achieve this goal, but we are working hard to do so."

Here's the specs from the website:

-Mac OS 10.4 or higher
-Apple computer, PowerPC Mac (G5 867 MHZ)
-Quartz Extreme capable graphics card.

My little old PB meets those specs, as I said I would love to see it work at least as a monitor for standard DV--trust me, I'm not holding my breath!

[David Saraceno]

That was introduced nearly four years ago.

Good luck on getting it to work.

[SurJones]

Do we have an HD version of this program yet?

[TimeKoder13]

I think The Other Mark (or, his company) has taken some jabs over the course of this thread and I can completely understand his response.

I agree with the person who said it was misleading to imply that this was an HVX solution (DV Monitor) and now we find out that we have to wait for that. Good hype, but bad marketing in the long run. I won't be as excited next time I read about an HD update to DV Monitor.

So, we have:

DVC Rack that has great reviews, but runs only on Windows
DV Monitor that only does SD
And now Redrock that only does HDV?

That's almost comical. I think I've decided on my likely work flow. Stream to DVC Rack on an el cheapo PC laptop. Then edit on a Mac Pro. I don't like windows at all, but I realized, what better laptop to bring into the field than something you won't cry about when it gets dropped or rained on ... no offence to PC likers.

So, Serious Magic has my vote. Why should you care what I have to say? You shouldn't.

Cheers! :beer:

Funny how many of us use the cheap PCs as throw away comps. I'm a whatever works type of guy, but I too go into conniptions whenever anythiong gets near my Mac, yet routinely set food, beverage and flammables on and around my PCs.

[David Saraceno]

Stay tuned for Scopebox.

[bena]

Hi,

This is the first we have heard of our App not working on any mac.

I suggested the user remove the Pref file and also create a new User Profile.

The only other thing I can think of, is parts of the system are missing or need updating like Quicktime.

If I could get my hands on this Mac I could get it running, I am really good at troubleshooting macs ;)

IF the above does not fix it, I would strongly suggest that you do an Archive and Install of Mac os 10.4, then update the os back up to 10.48.

The 866 will work with DV Monitor, the frame rate might suffer and I would not even think of turning on image fliping or Screen Calibration. But the app should not be crashing.

I can say that with our low level rewrite you would want a new Mac Book Pro to take advantage of the New Core Image routines we are using.

Plus if you want to record, monitor and have scopes, the G4 line is just not going to cut it.

Ben


I'm a long time lurker and first time poster. I have to say that I was disappointed with my first DV Monitor experience. I downloaded the software on my 12" PB G4 867mhz with 640MB of RAM and 20 free gigs and hooked up my DVX100a with no success. The application repeatedly quits and try to restart.

Don't get me wrong, I know this PB barely meets the tech specs but I was hoping it would at least function as a monitor and save me some rentals on a nine inch field monitor. I sent an e-mail to tech support about four hours ago and have not had a response yet.

I have been waiting for DV Monitor to support the HVX before upgrading my DVX and this was certainly not a promising first experience. I am still very excited about the prospect of using DV Monitor for my DVX and eventually my HVX but would like to be sure of what the tech specs are before I decide I need to get a faster laptop.

Has anyone else had similar results?

Thanks,
Michael Samstag
Director, War & Truth (http://www.underfirefilms.com)

[Verlaan]

Here's the specs from the website:

-Mac OS 10.4 or higher
-Apple computer, PowerPC Mac (G5 867 MHZ)
-Quartz Extreme capable graphics card.

My little old PB meets those specs, as I said I would love to see it work at least as a monitor for standard DV--trust me, I'm not holding my breath!

Long time lurker, first time poster too :)

Thanks for the heads-up on the 867! I too have been thinking about buying this product for SD monitoring and then upgrading to their HD product when it appears. It seems a little early to write it off, but your situation isn't encouraging. Hopefully they are able to back-up the information provided on their site.

As much respect as I have for the senior members here, to dismiss msamstag's concern with comments about his ancient equipment isn't very fair. The DV Monitor site claims the software work on this hardware... so it should ;)

The 867 is an old unit for sure. But it's size and weight make it a nice option for scopes et all... and the fact that it's now worth maybe $700 (CAD) makes it easier to tolerate a loss (if it's dropped or stolen, heaven forbid.) It's pretty crazy to expect HD monitoring from such an old laptop (not to mention a 12" screen), but with an upgraded int. HD this little beauty *should* handle an SD DV signal :)

Oh, and while I'm posting, I second SurJones 's question... this thread certainly has gotten some hopes high. I hope things are getting there :D

[msamstag]

Quick update:

I have tried deleting the preference file and installing the app under a different user, both with no success. As for QuickTime, I am running 7.1.2 and have avoided the latest 7.1.3 upgrade so as to be able to keep QT Pro without shelling out another $29. That said, I'll do the upgrade if that would really make a difference.

I think what most people are looking for is the ability to use a PB in the field that will serve to monitor and preferably capture footage AND use the PCI slot to ingest P2 cards. At the moment the PB G4 15" and 17" are the only MACS that would fit the bill. Used PB's can be found for between $400-700 which strikes me as a much better option than a 60 Gig P2 Store at three times the price.

I guess we need to ask the question, what is the minimum spec for capturing since Bena has indicated that he didn't think the 867 MHz would be up for the task?

And for the record, I am solidly behind the idea of this product and will sell several by word of mouth as soon as I have it working. I'm also comfortable with the idea that my Sundance 2004 refurb laptop might not be up for the task but it sure would be nice to be able to use it as a monitor in the field!

Keep up the good work Bena!

[bena]

Does DV Monitor Crash if you launch it with no camera connected?

Do you have a firewire HD that you can load a fresh Mac OS system on?

Unless your PB is having hardware issues, there is something wrong with your OS.

Once I get back from LA, which is where I am now, we can try to look into profiling your crash and seeing what is causing it.

My 1ghz PB works with DV Monitor, but it struggles, an 866 would be usable, but I would not get my hopes up.

You are asking a lot of a 9 yr old processor ( thats about he age of the G4's).

Sorry that it did not work as it should, but I fear there might be other reasons, most likely your OS is damaged.

If you can, try booting to an external Firewire HD and see if the app runs.

[bena]

FYI Red Lightning Software will be showing a version of our product that has Direct to Disk recording at DV EXPO, in the ProMax booth, as well as at the LAFCPUG users meeting on the 15th.

Hope to see you there

[BenB]

As for QuickTime, I am running 7.1.2 and have avoided the latest 7.1.3 upgrade so as to be able to keep QT Pro without shelling out another $29.

Upgrading from 7.1.2 to 7.1.3 does not require you re-purchase anything to keep QTPro.

[mactrix]

Hmm, everything I saw is far away from what DVRack offers.

I would use Boot Camp or Parallels to run DVRack on Intel Macs. There is nothing equal for Mac OS X ...

[David Saraceno]

I don't believe that DV Rack is going to work with Parallels.

Not heard of anyone running it in Parallels.

[BenB]

Parallels has the same draw back that Virtual PC had, since it's an emulator, it runs things slower. From my understanding, Parallels isn't near as slow as VPC was, but it's not as fast as running native in the OS. I would venture to guess that it may be way too slow for video editing.

[mactrix]

As I know people running the Windows version of Avid Xpress Pro
on Intel Macs it shouldn't be a problem ...

[czar]

Ben,
Any updates on the HD version of DV Monitor? Recording version? You said you were going to show a working version at DV EXPO/LAFCPUG users meeting. How did that go? If you have a working version, how far away are we from a release?

I'm not pressuring, I know you don't want to be premature on your release promises. Just wanted an update. :)

[BenB]

DV Rack should work in Windows running on an Intel Mac. Boot Camp rather than Parallels

[bena]

Hi Czar,

We did show the Recording version of DV Monitor at the LAFCPUG and I think it went over well.

We are getting very close to going into Beta with the new version. I expect the Beta to go rather quickly, as we do a pretty good job of finding bugs in Alpha.

So Everyone knows, the new version has been totally overhauled under the hood. This took a bit of time, time away from HD and Scopes, but we now have a foundation we can move forward with that will reduce CPU load and allow all the goodies to be added on fairly quickly. And we have a LOT of goodies to add in, things never even dreamt by Serious Magic.

Look for announcements in the coming weeks.

[sjmvideo]

Parallels has the same draw back that Virtual PC had, since it's an emulator, it runs things slower. From my understanding, Parallels isn't near as slow as VPC was, but it's not as fast as running native in the OS. I would venture to guess that it may be way too slow for video editing.
FYI, Parallels is not an emulator! Virtual PC on the PPC Macs (there is a version for windows) had to do emulation because of the different instruction sets between PPC chips and Pentiums. Parallels is only able to exists for Intel Macs by virtue of the fact that OS X and Windows now share the same CPU. Since there is no overhead of trying to convert from one CPU machine language to another, virtualization is much faster than emulation. There are still driver issues for the guest operating system to work correctly and that would probably be the major issue with trying to run DV Rack in parallels. But I would expect that with the new processors in the intel Macs that speed would not be the issue.

-Steven

[bena]

Hopefully in the near future once everyone sees where WE are headed, they will forget all about DV Rack and windows.

Maybe it would be better to take this to the DV Rack thread? :)


FYI, Parallels is not an emulator! Virtual PC on the PPC Macs (there is a version for windows) had to do emulation because of the different instruction sets between PPC chips and Pentiums. Parallels is only able to exists for Intel Macs by virtue of the fact that OS X and Windows now share the same CPU. Since there is no overhead of trying to convert from one CPU machine language to another, virtualization is much faster than emulation. There are still driver issues for the guest operating system to work correctly and that would probably be the major issue with trying to run DV Rack in parallels. But I would expect that with the new processors in the intel Macs that speed would not be the issue.

-Steven

[Segarza]

Ben any insights to where you're headed?

Don't want to put any pressure, but many of us (mac users) are seriously considering buying a pc for offloading purposes (considering all the corruption issues, glitches and so forth). DVRACK and Windows suddenly don't look like a remote possiblity.

[Yardsale]

What limitations does the beta version have? I'm trying to convince my crew that we need to get this but there are still some bugs and fixes still to be worked out if I read correctly...

[bena]

Yard Sale,

Our Beta's are mostly to find weird interactions and test compatibility with varying computers.

It is to find things that we the developer missed and to get opinions on how things should work and general feedback.

Feel free to go to our website and sign up to be in the Beta. http://www.redlightningsoftware.com/News.html

[bena]

Segarza,

I would strongly suggest getting a new intel mac, then you have choices.

We have things up our sleeve, I just can't show our cards just yet. I am sure Adobe would love to know what we are up to.

[robbo]

hah - they might just BUY you ...

:-)

[Noel Evans]

I don't know if redrock's supports HD, does it?

I'd definitely be interested. Far and away the things I use most on DV rack are:
1) pixel-accurate monitor for focus, and zooming into the monitor, and full-screen monitor capability
2) digital disk recorder, especially with the split-screen function; gotta have that split-screen capability to match a recorded shot against the live feed.
3) live waveform

If it did disk recording in all modes (DV50, 720p, 1080, and DV) that would be superb. And it should be a universal binary app so it runs on the new macbook and the old powerbooks.

It should record its files to QT MOVs that are directly editable by FCP. Should also use a huge RAM cache to buffer the frames during recording, to prevent there ever being a dropped frame on recording -- we need to be able to inherently trust it no matter what. And it should automatically strip out duplicate frames from 720p variable-frame-rate stuff, so if you're shooting 720/24p mode, it should record only the 24fps to the QT file.

It would also be stellar if it could record MXF files too -- so you'd have the choice of recording MXF or QT. I'd like to be able to use it to capture in the field, but capture MXF files that I could then edit on an Edius or Avid system.

And if you had it ready right now, yes I'd paypal $495 today for it.

Perfect! Do that but also have the ability to do mt2 transports from HDV also. And (maybe mentioned) a flip function for using 35mm adapters.

scratch that: from the website :
Users of 35mm lens adaptor will appreciate the image flipping functions to correct the image to the proper orientation.


Hope you guys offer a trial version. Looking to get this baby cranking. Then I can forget the LCD monitor search.

[BenB]

Parralles IS an emulator, you can't run two OS's at one time, one has to emulate, that's just a physical fact. I'm a retired IT Engineer, I THINK I may have a clue...

[prezorg]

As far as I can tell, emulation and virtualization, though sorta similar in concept, are not exactly the same thing.

Emulator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulation)
Virtualization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization)
Paravirtualization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paravirtualization) - (Parralles)

[BenB]

It's "emulation" that Parallells does. Have no idea what you mean by Virtualization. That's not a technical term I've ever heard an IT professional use with Operating Systems.

[David Saraceno]

It's "emulation" that Parallells does. Have no idea what you mean by Virtualization. That's not a technical term I've ever heard an IT professional use with Operating Systems.

Whatever you call it, the concept is nearly identical.

"Virtualization" is a methodology for dividing the resources of a computer into multiple execution environments, by applying partial or complete machine simulation or emulation.

That's why it was referred to as "Virtual PC."

[Barry_Green]

"emulation," as I understand it, has traditionally been employed when one processor has to emulate another's instruction set (Rosetta, for example). Slow.

"virtualization" appears to be a new term they're employing because both OS's are actually running on the same processor, so there is no actual emulation. There is probably some translation of function calls going on, but the base code can run natively.

[ProLost]

It's "emulation" that Parallells does. Have no idea what you mean by Virtualization. That's not a technical term I've ever heard an IT professional use with Operating Systems.
Have you been to Parallells site? The term virtualization is on the front page about a dozen times. Parallells absolutely is not doing emulation. Emulation is when you use software to simulate hardware. Virtualization is completely different, and yeilds much better performance.

Barry's description of the difference is spot on.

-Stu

[David Saraceno]

Glad we cleared this up.

:)

[horseface]

Put my name down for an HD version.

I just need to be able to monitor focus (Not capture) on my trusty old 800mhz G4 TiBook. This looks a thousand times better than lugging an expensive screen around with me. It's between this and whatever RedRock is cooking up... Whoever has a workable solution first.

:)

[Yardsale]

So I tried it out last night on a shoot, turns out the demo signs pop up quickly :o

I'd love to buy the product, i think it's excellent. However, when it gets upgraded for new features, will DVXusers get left out in the cold and have to pay for a new release?

I'm on a very indie budget right now, working with a DVX, curious..

[THoff]

There is another option for Mac users that already has HD support:

http://www.scopebox.com/

[David Saraceno]

I'm trying to convinced Jarred to post a review I am writing for ScopeBox, but I can get a specific response yes or no.

But if you want to ask questions, I'll respond.

[bena]

Just wanted to let everyone know that we have launched DV Monitor Pro. Main new features are D2D recording, shot logging with Labels, ratings and notes, Instant FCP export so you can start editing as soon as you are finished shooting, Custom Image Overlay for SFX shots, and Shot and Continuity tools.

Feel free to ask questions about this new version.

[SurJones]

Ben, That's all fine and dandy. And I love your stuff. BUT when are we going to see any resolution for HD users, cause if nto soon, maybe this is in the wrong section, and should be in the DVX section. :)

[superiormeat]

Pretty bizarre how Scopebox is largely ignored here... Like it doesn't exist. Maybe some form of bad blood with the developer and DVXuser? I don't get it. I mean many DVXusers have been waiting for and wanting a DVrack app for the mac.

Anyway I downloaded the demo and it seemed to work great... One major problem - It's too expensive at $699 (and even at the $599 intro price they had) IMHO

$349 and I'm

[SurJones]

Well Scope box is okay, but lacks alot that DVrack has to offer . My biggest issue is that it
restricts you to a "window workflow" No free floating windows. I could actually go on for hours about other things. Just not my cup of tea.

There is no bad blood, no one just seems to really like it. I guess?

[slimchrisp]

the demo for scopebox SUCKS!!!

if they're going to give you a demo for expensive software ($699 hd/ $399 sd) they shouldn't punish you for trying it. but that's exactly how i felt. first every single window has DEMO or something like that written in big red letters. then, not only does the demo time out after 10 minutes or so, but you only get to use it for i think 10 or 15 days. come on, just give me a fully working demo that times out after 10 minutes.

the dv monitor/dv monitor pro demos however, are full featured. they give you around 10 minutes before a little "demo" text starts bouncing around.

based on my cussing to features ratio, i'm easily going with dv monitor pro over scopebox.

i'm on the dvx, so i don't need the hd features just yet, so if that's what you really need then maybe dv monitor isn't for you. but they did just release the pro version, so hopefully an hd version isn't too far down the road.


Pretty bizarre how Scopebox is largely ignored here... Like it doesn't exist. Maybe some form of bad blood with the developer and DVXuser? I don't get it. I mean many DVXusers have been waiting for and wanting a DVrack app for the mac.

Anyway I downloaded the demo and it seemed to work great... One major problem - It's too expensive at $699 (and even at the $599 intro price they had) IMHO

$349 and I'm

[superiormeat]

you're right slimcrisp - that did suck... the "DEMO" across all the windows that is.

BUT - the monitor function worked great and would obviously function as a great critical focus field monitor - the record to disk in 720 or 1080 (although 60i at the monent) - and of course all the SCOPES all seemed to work great (didn't test accuracy).

I bring it up because it the ONLY solution for the HVX in HD at the moment.

[THoff]

I bring it up because it the ONLY solution for the HVX in HD at the moment.It's the only NATIVE MACINTOSH solution for the HVX in HD. All those features and more are available in DV Rack 2.0 HD on the PC or the Mac under Bootcamp.

[superiormeat]

oops

forgot to add the mac part...

as far as DV rack 2.0 - I don't ever see myself installing Windows on my macbook pro to run one app.

It's just an option that some people may be interested in. I don't know the company and probably won't even buy it at that price.

[bena]

THoff,

The whole point of this thread is to address Mac users who want to run OS X and also have a software package that gives them the features they need to shoot better quality video.

I started this thread last April looking to see if there was a market for this kind of software for the Mac.

Anyways, I am proud of what we have delivered so far for the Mac market. I know we still have a ways to go, scopes and HD support etc... It is just a matter of time until we release the higher end features. We wanted to have a bullet proof and easy to use foundation on which to build upon. I believe that we have delivered on that.

We have a lot of really cool features up our sleeves that will allow us to leap ahead of all our competitors. We now have the ability to shoot and then instantly edit in FCP with all the notes and ratings available, this is a huge time saving feature. I am not aware of any app like ours that offers this feature.

Ben

[slimchrisp]

I bring it up because it the ONLY solution for the HVX in HD at the moment.

you're most definitely right meat. if you're going hd, then dv monitor isn't going to work for you. here's to hoping for an hd version soon!!! and like bena said above, they have kicked this app out pretty fast, and it's already got some really great features. just a matter of time until hd and some other things come along.

[THoff]

THoff,

The whole point of this thread is to address Mac users who want to run OS X and also have a software package that gives them the features they need to shoot better quality video.

I started this thread last April looking to see if there was a market for this kind of software for the Mac. Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread, I just wanted to correct an inaccuracy.

[bena]

Thoff,

Its cool... Its not like having a rant from that other company about not supporting macs and the way everyone bugs them about it.

I don't think when I started this thread that it was an Option to Run windows on a Mac, as much as we shudder at the thought.

We all know what is available on the Dark side... ;)

Ben

[bena]

Just to let everyone know, A user had successfully ran 2 copies of DV Monitor Pro on the same Mac Book and was able to have each copy see a different camera on 2 separate firewire ports. The user was also able to capture clips from both cameras to a 3.5 inch Fire wire HD that was connected as well.

At some point we might look at changing the app to allow this from 1 running copy, but for those of you that need to do multicam it is doable now.



:) Recording D2D from multiple cameras:dankk2:

""There are also limits to how long the Firewire run can be.""
Our local TV station has some cameras controled from about 300 Ft away over firewire and optic cable. the set up is really close to how I described before, so do not tell me it does not work because I wen to see it for my self, after all of you made me doubt it

As for ""If each camera operator did not have our app and a screen, how would they know what they were getting?""
Remember that the only operator will be Me, My self and I, just like I am doing it now with this device to control the motion "Pan, Zoom, and Tilt http://grizzlypro.com/systems.htm#rthreels But I like your product to do the other things this one canot do

To make it short, your software will do calibration and D2D Rec and the grizzly will do the motion..that way I will be almost unnoticeable with total control of at least 3 cameras

Thank you Bena for giving us this wonderful app and remember do not let cannon beat you with their up-coming console app for macs

[bena]

Three words for all you Buck Rogers fans:

BETA BETA BETA

Soon I will be putting up a link so all you hungry HVX users can finally get your chance to help us with our Beta HD version.

Please do not PM me here about this, my mail box is almost full already :)

It has been a long road but we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Stay Tuned

[Spartacus]

Amen.

[bena]

We are now ready to accept applications for Beta testers for our DVCPRO HD software. HDV currently is not supported, we are waiting on Apple for this.

http://www.redlightningsoftware.com/Beta.html

Thanks

[Look 1st]

YAY!- is the beta a UB release?

[bena]

All our releases are UB :)

[bena]

Hi All,

We just released HD Monitor Pro and an Update to DV Monitor Pro.

Please visit www.hdmonitorpro.com for more information on HD Monitor Pro and www.redlightningsoftware.com for DV Monitor Pro details.

We will be at NAB so stop by and say hi, we are in the Dykortech booth C7832.

Feel free to ask questions and try out the Demo versions.

Thanks

[arrestthisman]

Thankyou thank you thank you thank you!!!!

I can't wait to get my copy! This is exactly what I've wanted. 700$ for scopebox!!! Feh!

Unless the demo is a disaster I'd say this is must have stuff.

Thanks a bunch. - Alex