HVX for noobs! The ideal setup?

[lawriejaffa]

Greetings there, well sadly (and i hate to say this) the HVX seems a bit overwhelming to me at the moment lol!

So for example, as a uk filmmaker this represents the difinitive new HD camera, which rocks but what would a basic setup be for a gumbie like me at home cos?

CAMERA -
P2 cards (but so expensive so u try and use a special external HD)
Editing system (but not one at the mo cos we're waiting for codecs to let them utilise that particular HD technology.)
So er before you all laugh at me hehe, what about Adobe (apart from Avid) will their latest premiere support it?

Also when you import HD into ones computer can you do that via a firewire too, or does the memory thingies go in another way lol

Forgive me for er my vague statements, just trying to catch up with the knowledge of u guys on this issue!

[adam powell]

ok mate,

I'll try and help out but we're all noobs to this thing...someone may be able to correct me if Im wrong...

P2 cards are expensive, but have an advantage over external HD devices such as the FS-100 because they record native HD....the firestore adds frames which you later have to remove.

Im personally thinking about recording to P2 and offloading to a laptop.

In regards to editing system I hear that Adobe pro 2.0 will support HD and you can get an upgrade for around 169 quid.

[booth]

Avid are apparently working on a fix to make the 720p and 720pn modes work, so I expect my May that will be fixed as there's supposed to be an announcement at NAB which is late April (I think).

I'm also thinking of getting two 8gb cards now and offloading to laptop. My laptop has PCMCIA slots so the cards should just slide right in. Connect an external HD via firewire and bobs yer uncle.

[adam powell]

Booth,

are you using a mac laptop?

Im going crazy trying to figure a workflow for this thing.

with each passing day im going off the idea of waiting on the firestore, (it took 6months for the JVC) and also I dont know if you can make use of the variable frame rates with it, I read somewhere that slowmo only works with native 720.

also I usually cut with premiere pro...I WAS told that HVX footage will work with premiere, I would just have to upgrade to pro 2.0, now I've read that it will only work with raylight..and Im still not 100% sure on that workflow, i.e how much the files have to be converted) also I read you need duel processors and I only have a 3.2 with 2 gig ram.

from what I can gather FCP on a mac seems to be the only flawless solution.

[booth]

Slow motion works with 720p and 720pn - and the Firestore records 720p so I think it will record slow-mo.

We're editing on Avid Symphony.

I don't think Raylight works with 25p just at the moment, but I think Barry G has provided some 25p footage for Marcus Van Bavel, so it might already be working.

I think FCP works but they have the same problem as us with 25p - it's the 25p that's the problem. 24p has been working for a while now.

As for shooting, I'm thinking of biting the bullet and now getting two 8gb cards + P2 store. That should be good for recording 2 hours of native 720p. I haven't had a job that's needed more than 4 hour tapes, so if I got something of that kind I'd just buy another P2 store and add it to the cost of the job. But I think 2x8gb + P2 store would work for the next 12 months. Thing is it'd cost more than £3000 (but would include VAT)!

[lpcvideo1]

Variable frame rates only work in the native modes (720p/30pn and 720pn/24pn). Nothing that doesn't record native modes will record slo mo (though you can down-convert to DV in camera).

I have two 4gig cards, and am very happy to hold out until 8gig cards come down signifiantly (again), but that's me.

[adam powell]

Variable frame rates only work in the native modes (720p/30pn and 720pn/24pn). Nothing that doesn't record native modes will record slo mo (though you can down-convert to DV in camera).

I have two 4gig cards, and am very happy to hold out until 8gig cards come down signifiantly (again), but that's me.

can someone confirm this please? that puts the firestore right out of the window and firmly in the dustbin.

[MrPolarBare]

You can only do variable frame rates in Native mode. Correct.

I am working with Raylight on Premiere, and I find it a very workable solution in the meantime. Of course it could definetly be better, but very workable. The ability to switch quality settings on the fly makes it nice. I set the little codec control window to medium quality which gives me roughly 50% resolution, and real-time editing (note: if you are looking at your footage at 50%, then you will hardly notice a difference). The I switch to high quality before rendering (by simply clicking the button in the little codec control window).

I use a P2 Store as well. I was debating on selling it and getting another laptop with bigger hard drive space UNTIL this past weekend. I did a shoot, and a laptop simply would not have worked. I was working in a wet area, where I could not have put my laptop on the ground. Plus I was moving around way too much. I kept my P2 Store in my front pocket of my sweatshirt. It was great. Wherever I went, the P2 Store was right there with me. I could also look down and see the status of my offloading. I will NEVER sell my P2 Store now (well, unless some unknown product down the road comes out).

SIDENOTE - Also, my P2 Store got drenched with water (not submerged, but sprayed with water pretty heavily). It came out of the whole process with no bruises, thankfully. So I guess you could say the P2 Store is a little more "splash-proof" than a laptop too, but I wouldn't test this out.

[adam powell]

Im amazed to find that the firestore doesn't support variable framerates....Im glad I found this out before I bought the thing.


fantastic advice mr polar bare....thankyou...Ive posted a big old post on PAL hvx workflow to try and consolidate some of the information.

[ROne]

I don't think Raylight works with 25p just at the moment, but I think Barry G has provided some 25p footage for Marcus Van Bavel, so it might already be working.


I believe 1.05 raylight works with all formats including 25p.



As for shooting, I'm thinking of biting the bullet and now getting two 8gb cards + P2 store. That should be good for recording 2 hours of native 720p. I haven't had a job that's needed more than 4 hour tapes, so if I got something of that kind I'd just buy another P2 store and add it to the cost of the job. But I think 2x8gb + P2 store would work for the next 12 months. Thing is it'd cost more than £3000 (but would include VAT)!

I'm in the same boat here.

I just decided to buy a single 4GB p2 card just to tide me over for a couple of months.

I was really tempted to get an 8gbx2 and firestore, and I can just about justify it... But the 8GB are more expensive £/GB, I was quoted £930 for 8GB and £430 for a single 4GB. Firestore I've been quoted £930, so I don't think that's too bad.

[booth]

I believe 1.05 raylight works with all formats including 25p.

I'm in the same boat here.

I just decided to buy a single 4GB p2 card just to tide me over for a couple of months.

I was really tempted to get an 8gbx2 and firestore, and I can just about justify it... But the 8GB are more expensive £/GB, I was quoted £930 for 8GB and £430 for a single 4GB. Firestore I've been quoted £930, so I don't think that's too bad.

You learn something new every day, I had no idea that you had to shoot native for vari-frame rates. Looks like the Firestore would have been a big mistake :eek:

Where were you quoted £930 for the P2 store? (I suspect you meant P2 store not Firestore) Cheapest I've been quoted is £1100.

And yes for some reason per gig it's cheaper to get 4gb, but I don't think I'd have time to swap cards and offload that much when covering some events, so the extra £200 will probably be worth it in the long run.

Someone just confirmed on another thread that Raylight is working with all 25p footage, even native.

[DavidBeier]

Avid are apparently working on a fix to make the 720p and 720pn modes work

Avid doesn't work in 720p and 720pn? When did this happen? So, if I shoot something on the HVX in those modes, I can't edit it in Avid?

[booth]

Sorry I missed a vital element, 25p. I'm in PAL land and at the moment Avid won't deal with 720p and 720pn. 1080 is fine.

[Barry_Green]

Im amazed to find that the firestore doesn't support variable framerates....Im glad I found this out before I bought the thing.
Hold up, folks. The firestore WILL support variable frame rates.

It will just require an extra step, is all.

You can shoot variable frame rates in 720/25pN mode, obviously, but you can also shoot variable frame rates in 720/25p mode, and 720/50p mode.

25pN mode lets you preview the effect in-camera. 25P and 50P mode doesn't; you have to bring the clip into cinema tools (or other frame-rate-converter program) and strip out the duplicate frames. But once you do so, the clip will be indistinguishable from one that was recorded in 25pN mode in the first place.

[CacheMoneyVideo]

will vegas with raylight be able to strip out frames like it did with dvx 24p footage? with 3:2 pulldown...???

[Barry_Green]

Not with 3:2, but it will with 2:3:3:2. So it strips out the pulldown from 1080 or 480 24PA footage, but it doesn't remove pulldown from "standard" (2:3) 24P footage.

[ROne]

Where were you quoted £930 for the P2 store? (I suspect you meant P2 store not Firestore) Cheapest I've been quoted is £1100.


Did mean P2store. I sent you a PM.

[Steve Shovlar]

H Prestons were saying £1,499 plus VAT for the Firestore.