Raylight Again

[otari_99]

Let's talk about this one more time.

Will Raylight work with Adobe PP 1.5, or 2.0 to support DVCPRO HD since these programs do not?

Any issues, or degradation when using Raylight with these Adobe products?

Basically, I'm trying to decide whether to cut my losses with Adobe PP and invest in Avid, or FCP.

Thanks.

[dregenthal]

Why not just download the trial version and check it out for yourself?

(just a suggestion -- that's what I did).

[otari_99]

Why not just download the trial version and check it out for yourself?

(just a suggestion -- that's what I did).

Thought I'd ask first.

[Barry_Green]

Yes it will work, yes it will do what you want, and the only question mark you would face is: is your computer fast enough to deliver realtime performance? If so, and if you really want to stay with Premiere, Raylight may be perfect for you.

Download the demo and try.

But if you want to maintain your PC hardware investment and are looking at alternative editing programs, definitely download and look at Edius Broadcast -- its P2 integration is unparalleled.

[polispol]

when it will be available the 720/25p with variable frame rate?

[otari_99]

Yes it will work, yes it will do what you want, and the only question mark you would face is: is your computer fast enough to deliver realtime performance? If so, and if you really want to stay with Premiere, Raylight may be perfect for you.

Download the demo and try.

But if you want to maintain your PC hardware investment and are looking at alternative editing programs, definitely download and look at Edius Broadcast -- its P2 integration is unparalleled.

Well, I'm used to Premier, and I've invested in my suite (Matrox RT.X10 bundle), 3GHz P4 (Intel D865PERLK MB),800MHz FSB, ATI 9600 GAC, dual hard-drive etc, etc.
And now my HVX200.

Do I have the processing power? Maybe. Do have enough storage now? Probably not. I gather that through-put will be the key. In any case, I am not opposed to moving on to another platform, or suite.

Thanks much for your help.

Any more thoughts?

[Barry_Green]

The RTX10 won't do you any good, unless you only want to edit DV.

My suggestion to all HVX users is to consider that if your editing system doesn't support the camera, consider whether switching to one that does wouldn't be a better idea. Premiere doesn't, although you can work with Raylight. But your CPU's not really up to the task, you'd want a dual-core fast processor.

FCP flies with HVX footage, and Canopus Edius is very well integrated, probably the best-integrated editor. But either of those will pretty much mean a new editing computer.

[mvb]

when it will be available the 720/25p with variable frame rate?
It's available now. And it works great with almost any speed computer, no dual processors required. You just have to select the quality level that is real-time for your system, then raise the quality level to maximum for the final render. For example, Raylight Yellow is real time 720-24P for a Pentium 2GHZ with dual SATA drives and displays at about 1/2 resolution. Then you switch to Raylight Blue for rendering an HD master at about 3-4 fps. That would be about 6 minutes of rendering for every minute of video that had color corrrection or effects. If there are no active filters in a shot the rendering is faster than real time.

[Barry_Green]

Marcus is of course correct, and part of the genius of Raylight is that it provides multiple quality levels to accomodate slower systems. I should clarify that if you want realtime at 100% quality and 100% frame size, that's when you'd need a faster system. But you can edit in the lower quality levels, and then switch to full-quality for the final render.

[Paul Llewellyn]

SO, will raylight work with avid xpress pro hd for pal 720/25pn?

[polispol]

my computer crashes when I activate the high quality mode :(

[otari_99]

The RTX10 won't do you any good, unless you only want to edit DV.

My suggestion to all HVX users is to consider that if your editing system doesn't support the camera, consider whether switching to one that does wouldn't be a better idea. Premiere doesn't, although you can work with Raylight. But your CPU's not really up to the task, you'd want a dual-core fast processor.

FCP flies with HVX footage, and Canopus Edius is very well integrated, probably the best-integrated editor. But either of those will pretty much mean a new editing computer.

Okay. This is very helpful.

Matrox claims AXIO will process DVCPRO HD. However, the package is still bundled with Premier. I spoke with Adobe about 2.0, and they basically said no DVCPROHD support. So, one is only supposed to use the Matrox side of the package? I should probably bite the bullet and go with one of the industry standards.

What are the CPU options for dual-core (both MAC and PC)?


Thanks again.

[mvb]

my computer crashes when I activate the high quality mode :(

You should email support@dvfilm.com with the details.

[Barry_Green]

Axio apparently only supports DVCPRO-HD through firewire capture. No MXF support at all. No tapeless support.

Frankly I don't understand why any HVX user would be considering Axio. For less money you could buy a totally stoked Mac with FCP and get better support and multiple-stream realtime, or a totally dialed-in Edius system and get realtime editing and full P2/MXF integration.

With Axio, as I understand it (and could be wrong, someone correct me if I am), if you're doing a production where you are offloading cards, and you offload maybe 20 cards per day, then when you get back to your Axio system you'd have to actually COPY the folders from the hard disk BACK ONTO YOUR P2 CARDS, one at a time, and then play the footage in the camera and digitize the footage into the Axio system.

That's insane.

And for all that, you get to work with Premiere Pro? And pay $5,000 to $11,000 for the privilege?

No thanks, that's just nutty. Give me a Mac or Edius any time as compared to that.

[TimurCivan]

But if you want to maintain your PC hardware investment and are looking at alternative editing programs, definitely download and look at Edius Broadcast -- its P2 integration is unparalleled.

How much is Edius broadcast going for?

I am more interested in being able to edit DVCPRO50.

also are there any plug ins or work arounds for DVCPRO50 in Vegas?

[Barry_Green]

Raylight takes care of DVCPRO50 in Vegas. You can download the free Matrox DVCPRO50 codec, and Raylight will convert MXF files into DVCPRO50 AVI files, which then work excellently in Vegas. We're using this workflow now on an all-greenscreen production we just did for one of the hotels here.

Edius Broadcast has a $999 retail.

[TimurCivan]

thanks barry.

[TimurCivan]

I am having a heck of a time locating the Matrox codec. anyone know where i can find it?

[HVXguy]

I am having a heck of a time locating the Matrox codec. anyone know where i can find it?

http://www.matrox.com/video/support/ds/software/codec/home.cfm

You have to register to get it.

[HVXguy]

Axio apparently only supports DVCPRO-HD through firewire capture. No MXF support at all. No tapeless support.

Frankly I don't understand why any HVX user would be considering Axio. For less money you could buy a totally stoked Mac with FCP and get better support and multiple-stream realtime, or a totally dialed-in Edius system and get realtime editing and full P2/MXF integration.

With Axio, as I understand it (and could be wrong, someone correct me if I am), if you're doing a production where you are offloading cards, and you offload maybe 20 cards per day, then when you get back to your Axio system you'd have to actually COPY the folders from the hard disk BACK ONTO YOUR P2 CARDS, one at a time, and then play the footage in the camera and digitize the footage into the Axio system.

That's insane.

And for all that, you get to work with Premiere Pro? And pay $5,000 to $11,000 for the privilege?

No thanks, that's just nutty. Give me a Mac or Edius any time as compared to that.

Listen to the Barry Man!!
I wanted to buy AXIO but went FCP.
I might go back and give Edius a look.
Edius also has hardware options like the AXIO.
Don't fall for the Matrox marketing!!

[otari_99]

Axio apparently only supports DVCPRO-HD through firewire capture. No MXF support at all. No tapeless support.

Frankly I don't understand why any HVX user would be considering Axio. For less money you could buy a totally stoked Mac with FCP and get better support and multiple-stream realtime, or a totally dialed-in Edius system and get realtime editing and full P2/MXF integration.

With Axio, as I understand it (and could be wrong, someone correct me if I am), if you're doing a production where you are offloading cards, and you offload maybe 20 cards per day, then when you get back to your Axio system you'd have to actually COPY the folders from the hard disk BACK ONTO YOUR P2 CARDS, one at a time, and then play the footage in the camera and digitize the footage into the Axio system.

That's insane.

And for all that, you get to work with Premiere Pro? And pay $5,000 to $11,000 for the privilege?

No thanks, that's just nutty. Give me a Mac or Edius any time as compared to that.

Understood (and I couldn't agree more). It's time to move on. What's your take on processing DVCPROHD on an AVID platform?

Thanks again.

[otari_99]

Listen to the Barry Man!!
I wanted to buy AXIO but went FCP.
I might go back and give Edius a look.
Edius also has hardware options like the AXIO.
Don't fall for the Matrox marketing!!

I really don't wish to continue with any Matrox product, as I've had some interesting customer service experiences there.

I intend to build a suite that is line with industry standards, so I want to clearly understand my options.

Thanks.

[HVXguy]

I really don't wish to continue with any Matrox product, as I've had some interesting customer service experiences there.

I intend to build a suite that is line with industry standards, so I want to clearly understand my options.

Thanks.

I fought many a Matrox battle! I don't know anymore what is best, it seems like you need at least a windows and a mac set-up. I am only using a Mac laptop right now. It gets the job done for what I need. No clients hanging over my shoulder. And it seems like I could run out tomorrow with a project file and my external hard drive and go to a post facility to tweak what I need and layoff to what I need as well. Thats the plan anyway!!

[otari_99]

I fought many a Matrox battle! I don't know anymore what is best, it seems like you need at least a windows and a mac set-up. I am only using a Mac laptop right now. It gets the job done for what I need. No clients hanging over my shoulder. And it seems like I could run out tomorrow with a project file and my external hard drive and go to a post facility to tweak what I need and layoff to what I need as well. Thats the plan anyway!!

Ah, another satisfied Matrox customer.


What type of external drive are you using?

Does your laptop have a slot for P2's?

Sorry about the ignorant questions. I'm MAC deficient.

Thanks.

[HVXguy]

Ah, another satisfied Matrox customer.


What type of external drive are you using?

Does your laptop have a slot for P2's?

Sorry about the ignorant questions. I'm MAC deficient.

Thanks.

I am just starting with Macs as well. I have the 17" PB with the built-in slot. And I have a G-Raid 300 gig external using the Firewire 800 port. I can get full-frame playback on the laptop screen. At this point all my work is converted to computer files or DVD. Eventually I will get some sort of desktop system to replace the Matrox.

[otari_99]

I am just starting with Macs as well. I have the 17" PB with the built-in slot. And I have a G-Raid 300 gig external using the Firewire 800 port. I can get full-frame playback on the laptop screen. At this point all my work is converted to computer files or DVD. Eventually I will get some sort of desktop system to replace the Matrox.

You've made some good points. I keep thinking "pie in the sky", but maybe I should get what I need for now and leave room for expansion.

Thanks again.

[MrPolarBare]

I've been using Raylight/Premiere Pro 2, and I love it. I did try out the Edius demo. I really liked Edius, and it's P2 workflow is better than Adobe's at the moment. But, Raylight is a VERY workable solution (especially since you can change the quality resolution of the codec on the fly...edit in low/medium quality, then render at high quality). The reason I didn't switch to Edius, is because I already know Premiere, and I use the whole procudtion suite ALOT! The new Adobe Dynamic Link is very valuable to me. Plus, I hope that the next update of Premiere will have MXF support. I figure hopefully they will see what FCP, Avid, and Edius have done right and wrong, and make a great solution. But, in the meantime I am content with my Raytight workflow.

[ROne]

Polar, what do you use as your preset when starting up PP2.0?

[Gopher_Greene]

what is the link to raylight

[Barry_Green]

dvfilm.com/raylight

[Anders Holck]

So is there a small program that can convert a raylight AVI to a Photo JPEG or DV50 Quicktime file, with timecode and audiotracks intact?

[Barry_Green]

Don't know about that. You could use Vegas to export a Raylight DV50 to Quicktime, but I don't know if you could force the timecode.

[TimurCivan]

Oh man, i downloaded that MAtrox codec, installed etc... now Vegas is crasing like crazy. i uninstallled the codec packet, but icant seem to repair vegas. uninstalled and reinstalled vegas 2 or three times...

this is awful.

as of now, the editing segment works fine but the capture program is Completely screwed up.

The program runs but as soon as a DV camera is plugged in it freezez. This lso happens when trying to captur with Virtual Dub and Windows Movie maker. So i figure the Driver was dammaged. How would i go about repairing that?

[Anders Holck]

Don't know about that. You could use Vegas to export a Raylight DV50 to Quicktime, but I don't know if you could force the timecode.

Ok, I'm just braining on some kind of intermediate solution to use the 720/50p codec material in FCP and Avid. If we could get some batch tool to convert 720/25p material to a FCP/Avid editable format with timecode, I know a few photographers that would use the HVX-200e for upcoming "small HD" documentary productions. As of now with 1080/25p as the only option, I'm afraid they'll go HDV instead.
One thing is the P2 price/runlenght, but the sheer amount of time they'd use to backup the material, is just too much. At 720/25pn it is much more feasible.

For my own projects I'll shoot 1080/25p and "swap 'till I drop" or DVCPRO 50 if SD.

[MrPolarBare]

Polar, what do you use as your preset when starting up PP2.0?
Not sure what you are asking. Now with the new Raylight 1.04 release, I actually edit my footage at Full quality mode now (because this new updated version of Raylight is MUCH faster). It does drop a few frames however. So, if I absolutely need real-time, then I switch it to Medium quality. It doesn't matter what your Raylight quality settings are when you start PP 2, because it can be changed on the fly. Usually I start at full quality, and then drop it down to Medium if it gets too sluggish in playback. To change all of these settings go to the "Raylight Control" application (that came with the codec). It is a master setting for all of your Raylight files.

[ROne]

Not sure what you are asking. Now with the new Raylight 1.04 release, I actually edit my footage at Full quality mode now (because this new updated version of Raylight is MUCH faster).

Sorry I was a little vague.

When you open PP - you've have to establish a preset (DV, HDV) etc and specify resolutions.

There is no raylight preset as such. So I'm wondering what you establish as your PP resolution and codec, right at the beginning when defining your new project. Thanks.

[MrPolarBare]

Sorry I was a little vague.

When you open PP - you've have to establish a preset (DV, HDV) etc and specify resolutions.

There is no raylight preset as such. So I'm wondering what you establish as your PP resolution and codec, right at the beginning when defining your new project. Thanks.
When the "New Project" window pops up, I switch to the "Custom Settings" tab. The I select "Desktop" as my Editing mode. Then all of the other settings depend on what I was shooting. For example, my last shoot was 720/24Pn60P so I chose 23.976 for the timebase, and 1280x720 for the frame size. Then left everything else the same (square pixels, no fields, 48KHz audio, etc).

Then you can render out your edited piece however you want...Quicktime, AVI, WMV HD, etc.

[Ursa]

I just have one question for you raylight users: Can you put color correcting and other effects on the raylight video clips? How about Magic Bullet? it's a must!.... Appreciation to answerers! ;)

[MrPolarBare]

I just have one question for you raylight users: Can you put color correcting and other effects on the raylight video clips? How about Magic Bullet? it's a must!.... Appreciation to answerers! ;)
Yes. There isn't anything "strange" about Raylight. It simply translates the MXF into an AVI file. Anything you can do with you normal AVI you can do with the Raylight AVI. There are abosultely no restrictions when it comes to manipulating the file in whatever program you use.

[Ursa]

ok great! Thanks!