Possible Proposal about Vegas and HVX200

[LearningVideo]

I personally would love if HVX P2 output of DVCPRO-HD can be edited in Vegas. We know this is not possible today. However, I was wondering if hypothetically there was a software utility that takes the files that are generated from HVX P2 and converted to a format that is editable by Sony Vegas.

In order for this to happen:

1) We need a format that is loadable and editable by Vegas. That format has to be viable one in that converting DVCPROHD to it won't lose resolution or data.

2) Data spec for that format.

3) Data spec for DVCPROHD.

4) Or alternatively we can repeat the same steps for DVCPRO50.

I do not promise anything but maybe (big time maybe) I can help with creating such utility. The First thing I will need is to look at the spec. I have to be honest with you that this is just a wild idea and I have absolutely no idea what would it take. But I certainly have the technical skills to do this project if it is feasable, reasonable, viable and doeable.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

[Owen]

Doesn't Raylight do this... or are you thinking of a different approach?
http://www.dvfilm.com/raylight/index.htm

[LearningVideo]

Owen,

If Raylight has the solution, then clearly that's good news and there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

But this leads to another question about RayLight: Why it was not embraced as the final solution to Vegas and HVX200?

1) Is RaLight workflow difficult or inconvenient?
2) Or the output format of RayLight has some drawbacks?

And if any of the above is true, can I help?

Imagine with me one simply utility. It reads HVX200 P2 files and simply outputs a good format that Vegas can work with. Just one extra step to the normal workflow. Wouldn't that be great?

[OliverM]

Vegas is property of Sony. They won't help you capture a codec that is property of one of their competitors. Panasonic doesn't make betacam decks either. Other NLE developers are more willing, simply because they can sell more copies that way and are more compatible allround. Or (like Apple and Avid) because the codec you use doesn't affect their bussiness. They don't care.
Sony does care, wich is normal. Maybe if the HVX becomes a huge succes they will come around, but I'd still want to see it before I believe it.
Raylight offers a good intermediate codec, but intermediates always cause hassle.
But you can't blame Sony for not going against their own bussiness...

[LearningVideo]

I do understand the business perspective. I am not asking for Sony's own help. And I will not be creating new codex like RayLight did. I will simply be converting HVX file to a format that Sony Vegas ALREADY supports withe efficiency.

Vegas already supports: Sony proprietary version of MXF...

If we can have a standalone and independent utility that simply converts the file generated from HVX200 to Sony's MXF, it is done deal.

Barry said that Raylight conversion only gives him 12 fps. That's the reason it is not catching on. But I bet if the utility converted to Sony MXF, then there will be no issue.

Is Sony's MXF proprietary available? Is it impossible to get hold of that format? What about Panasonic P2 format? Is that secretive too?

[LearningVideo]

DVCPRO-HD is an SMPTE document. Specifically, it is SMPTE 370M-2002.

Smpte.org is asking for $66 to get the document. I wonder if this document would cover standard MXF as well that is outputed by HVX on P2.

Then comes Sony's own MXF. I have no idea how to get that.

[Jim Arthurs]

Barry said that Raylight conversion only gives him 12 fps. That's the reason it is not catching on. But I bet if the utility converted to Sony MXF, then there will be no issue.

Playback speed depends on a large number of factors. My older dual 2.8 Xeon will play via Raylight 720 24pN at full frame rate at the medium quality setting in Vegas.

Soon Raylight will be able to batch the files into Cineform codec, which will play at full quality on a good system.

The ideal answer is for full native support, but I'm not holding my breath. The wait to know exactly what Vegas intends to do is only another 5 weeks or so until NAB...

Regards,

Jim Arthurs

[js33]

If Panasonic would create a PC version of the DVCPROHD codec that is all you would need. I believe Vegas would allow you to use any codec that is on your machine although since it is Sony, Vegas may not support all the options of the HVX on the timeline.

[LearningVideo]

The ideal answer is for full native support, but I'm not holding my breath.


Very true. I suggest that the next best option is to have a utility that converts DVCPRO-HD from P2 to a comparable format that Sony Vegas already supports natively.

The problem with all other formats is that they introduce intermediate formats and codecs that Sony support but not natively.

[LearningVideo]

Vegas may not support all the options of the HVX on the timeline.

I say that this is the reason there is a need for a utility that converts the HVX format to a format that is supported natively by Vegas. This includes as much as possible converting the metadata from panasonic to that selected HD Vegas-native format.

[HVXguy]

Edius can read and edit the .mxf file. Barry edited and posted some beautiful Hawaii footage. I would get Edius but I already have Vegas, PPro, FCP and dozens of other softwares. I use Raylight to import 1080 24pA footage shot with HVX to edit in Vegas. All I am doing is processing small clips, no actual editing, so for the time being it is fine.

[LearningVideo]

All I am doing is processing small clips, no actual editing, so for the time being it is fine.

HVXGuy, what if there is a utility that converts the HVX200 output to a format that Sony Vegas supports natively? Won't that help your work immensely?

The reason I am posting this topic is because I am seriously investigating the development of such utility. I am senior software engineer. I just need all of your support.

[HVXguy]

Sure, but if the cost is much more than Raylight why bother?
Also Edius already works with the Native .mxf file.
Plus I already have FCP. I just like working with AfterEffects in windows. But hey if you want to pursue this I am all for it.
Just let us know what you need.

[LearningVideo]

HVXGuy,

by the way, have you tried Edius? What did you think of it?

[HVXguy]

I tried the demo awhile back. But I went with FCP when researching options re: P2 & HVX.
As I understand it....
You can edit .mxf with Edius but you cannot link the .mxf externally to AfterEffects. With Raylight I can refer to .mxf file and use it in Vegas or AfterEffects. The only problem with Raylight is the Gamma is a little low. I have put bars on the Vegas scopes and I have to
lower the black levels and boost the brightness a bit.