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Aaron Marshall
03-13-2006, 11:40 PM
Hey I was just wondering... Why isn't music taken more seriously in the contests? I mean, it's a pretty big piece of the puzzle in film. Best edit, sound design, camera work, and lighting get recognition and prizes, but not for music? That seems a little odd. I mean when you think of a film you're like "Wow Speilberg, and John Williams" not "Wow Speilberg, and his editor". I'm not putting down editors in any way shape or form, but you get what I'm saying.

If I could come up with something for the prize for "Best Musical Score", I would. This concern isn't because I think I'm going to win (far from it). It's for guys like MacB, and pastywhiteboy who had fine, well crafted scores in their films.

What would be a thoughtful prize a composer could win? A free DVD w/ shipping paid from the fest would be groovy. I'll keep brainstorming. I believe the category is important for recognition more than the reward. But, it's own category is another level of recognition beyond just honorable recognition IMO.

In the immortal words of tiny elvis, "I'm not trying to start anything man, I'm just sayin' "

http://noct.us/tinyelvis.jpg

Brandon Rice
03-13-2006, 11:45 PM
The prizes have not yet been announced... I am sure Jarred and Barry are looking at a best score as a possibility for a prize category. Remember, this contest is free to enter... any prizes are just a great bonus!

ChrisHurn
03-13-2006, 11:48 PM
Well, with all the composers now, I think it would be cool to have a prize (or recognition) added. I mean, music is such a major player in most films. I think if we go with a score prize, it should be best original score, to break up confusision we had in Sci-Fest.

But as brice has said, I'm sure Jarred and Barry have something in mind, and yes - any prize is a bonus. The real prize is being able to watch the fantastic films people make here!

-Chris

Brandon Rice
03-13-2006, 11:49 PM
Yeah... I am totally behind getting a best ORIGINAL score prize... but I know that sometimes things aren't possible... I mean these contests are done free of charge for us... so I don't really expect a lot... (prize wise) :) That's all I'm sayin'

Norm Sanders
03-14-2006, 12:08 AM
Original score for sure. No substitutes. Jarred and Barry_S's worlds most likely revolve around the video production end of things, which may not have as much access to things composers could really use, though I could be wrong.

Noct ... if you had connections, or new of some places that offer good values (i.e. sweetwater.com) that would be interested in the advertising/sponsorship side of things in exchange for a nice prize, I'm sure Jarred & Barry_S would be greatful.

Shoot, I could even make the calls and see what could be dug up, though I wouldn't know what would be of value to a composer. But like you said, even the free DVD would be cool, but then that's an expense directly out of Jarred's pocket, when he's already doing so much.

Buckles
03-14-2006, 03:23 AM
Even just having the acknowledgement is nice. Its not often a composer gets recognised for his contribution in smaller projects; it often gets bundled up in the sound category, sharing awards with other sound designers. Not that the sound designers don't deserve it... its just nice for a composer sometimes to recieve his fair share, even if its just an 'I told you so...'

-s

Barry_S
03-14-2006, 05:46 AM
I couldn't agree more. The individual categories are still something fairly new, so we'll continue to tweak. We'll definitely have a Best Original Score category and I'll work with Jarred to come up with some sort of prize. I can't say it'll be a lavish prize, but we'll see with what we can come up with. I think I have a couple ideas that might fly.

Brandon Rice
03-14-2006, 08:02 AM
Awesome Barry! I am certain many people will be thrilled with recognizing that category!

Aaron Marshall
03-14-2006, 11:09 AM
I'm in total agreement about how the prizes are all bonus, and how great it is that the fest is free to enter. The whole thing is awesome and I don't take a single grain of it for granted. It was just the principle of the matter. It's awesome you guys are continuing to tweak the categories.

I've been looking through my musical items. I might be able to donate something for the "Best Original Score" prize.

Jack Daniel Stanley
03-14-2006, 08:39 PM
That's a good way to think about it since things are so grass roots around here, so if you have something to donate or have a connection that could lead to sponsorship that would be a big help I'm sure.

And you do know that there was a best score category last go around and that the MacB and Chris Hurn (for CPU) tied for it? Wasn't sure if you were saying there should be a catgegory and prize, or just that their should be a prize for teh existing category.

Aaron Marshall
03-14-2006, 09:49 PM
That's a good way to think about it since things are so grass roots around here, so if you have something to donate or have a connection that could lead to sponsorship that would be a big help I'm sure.

I would like to contact a few sponsors, but I feel awkward doing so on behalf of DVXuser.com. If I were to get an "ok" from the higher ups I'd go for it.

I feel more comfortable donating, and perhaps sweetening the pot for the best score winner. So far, I thought about donating an Absynth 3 Tutorial DVD that I never used (value: approx. $50 USD). The problem with this is; people may not have Absynth 3 (It's a great software synth). On the positive side; it would delve into material that was pretty universal to do with sound design in relation to music. It also contains famous composer interviews and how they apply Absynth into their film work. I just never had time to get into it. After Effects and related material has been dominating my brain!


And you do know that there was a best score category last go around and that the MacB and Chris Hurn (for CPU) tied for it? Wasn't sure if you were saying there should be a catgegory and prize, or just that their should be a prize for teh existing category.

Yes, I'm aware. I'm not trying to be petty, but it was merely a footnote, and not even in the official thread. I guess I could be biased having a composition background. I hear a, "but" coming.... I think it deserves more than a footnote. Music is almost like another film going on inside your existing film. It has its own mechanical form, and soul. Once you combine that magic with movie magic it starts multiplying itself. It becomes something greater.

hahaha sorry, I'm finished preaching. I'm just telling you my point of view. It looks like this fest will be tweaked to include a music category. I'm very pleased.

:grin:

androoow
03-15-2006, 09:32 AM
deffo have the best " Original score " .

imo any other award for music is like awarding someone for visually using "stock footage"...and that seems daft to me.

but , each to their own..

cheers

Aaron Marshall
03-15-2006, 11:47 AM
Yeah, of course androow. Do you think those "scores in a can" would honestly be picked for "best score" uhh.... I seriously doubt it. You can spot that stuff a mile away.

Now you're getting to another level of what I'm talking about. It will reward those who actually take the time and effort to CRAFT another important element in the film, and not just drop in acid loops. A good score is like a tailor made italian suit, not something cheap and generic you'd buy at Sears for your great aunts funeral (stock music).

Jack Daniel Stanley
03-15-2006, 02:46 PM
Yeah, of course androow. Do you think those "scores in a can" would honestly be picked for "best score" uhh.... I seriously doubt it. You can spot that stuff a mile away.

Now you're getting to another level of what I'm talking about. It will reward those who actually take the time and effort to CRAFT another important element in the film, and not just drop in acid loops. A good score is like a tailor made italian suit, not something cheap and generic you'd buy at Sears for your great aunts funeral (stock music).
LOL, no way huh? Cuz that's exactly what happened in scifi. I initially won best score and my piece was centered around two pieces of nasty funk music that were in fact stock music. The rest was loops and bits that took hours and hours to CRAFT into an element that served the storytelling so well that it won best score by a considerable margin and it took LOTS of time and effort.

It wasn't a matter of just dropping loops in as I take that element as unimportant, I hold every element of my film as important, and the sound design and music are important. I declined the award which was given I think as "best use of music" because the intent of the award was "best original score", so now A BRIEF CASE and CPU share the award as a tie, even though mysefl and Picasso consider collage a legitimate form of art and expression.

So that's why I suggested in an earlier post that it be called best ORIGINAL score and that we have some way of tagging those films with original scores.

If you know where / how to find good loops and how to mix them into a seemless textural score, then its not so easy to spot a mile away. You've just never heard it done well.

Click the link for Sci Fi winners below, watch ODD Squad, and see if you disgree. It ofcourse would have been better with full scoring, but what's there works and it never overpowers the film -- a problem with many of the original scores last go around.

On the flipside -- many inlcuding myself, thought that A Brief Case was canned because it was TOO good, we could't imagine such a fully realized REAL INSTRUMENT piece being created originally for that piece.

So when talanted creative people are envolved things just aren't that cut and dry.

Aaron Marshall
03-15-2006, 04:42 PM
I didn't mean to be step on your toes. You have a point, especially in the style you work in. Tarantino weaves some wonderful vibes in his films using an ecclectic array of music.

My idealistic view, and theory of film music still stands. I don't think you can take a bunch of stock music and craft it into a solid thematic score. I'm sure you could make a very effective score, and stumble onto some great moments. But can you imagine Citizen Kane with stock music? What about Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Psycho, Jaws, Gone with the Wind ... I could go on. The music in those films are so entwined with their identities. Perhaps with that funk piece you found the same thing?

I thought your film was great. Though, to be perfectly honest the music escapes my memory. This is from a guy that makes a point to remember film music. I have heard stock music mixed well. I know a thing or two about mixing myself. But we're not talking about mixing, we're talking about composition.

Edgen
03-15-2006, 04:44 PM
I think "Ultimate Strings" should be the prize. :) j/k

I think recognition in the music category would be fantastic! Its a contest and the recognition alone would boost a composer's moral and encourage all composers to really put their heart into the scores. It's hard to find a good 'prize' for us, because we all use different tools to create music.

It's just like christmas. I just tell my mom... "Mom, don't buy clothes. Please. don't. Just give me money and i'll go buy something myself."

Treat the contest like the Oscars? DVX Oscar. :)

:costumed-smiley-047 pitty the fool.

/j

Jack Daniel Stanley
03-15-2006, 05:57 PM
I didn't mean to be step on your toes. You have a point, especially in the style you work in.
Watch Shed, via the Zombie fest winners link in my sig.

All original.


Tarantino weaves some wonderful vibes in his films using an ecclectic array of music.

My idealistic view, and theory of film music still stands. I don't think you can take a bunch of stock music and craft it into a solid thematic score. I'm sure you could make a very effective score, and stumble onto some great moments. But can you imagine Citizen Kane with stock music? What about Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Psycho, Jaws, Gone with the Wind ... I could go on. The music in those films are so entwined with their identities. Perhaps with that funk piece you found the same thing?

I thought your film was great. Though, to be perfectly honest the music escapes my memory. This is from a guy that makes a point to remember film music. I have heard stock music mixed well. I know a thing or two about mixing myself. But we're not talking about mixing, we're talking about composition. I'm not disagreeing with you. Aboutr what constitute a solid solid thematic score or the fact that it should be recognized or that the award should go to a film with a solid thematic score and not a remix of found music no matter how effective. I agree I agree I agree.

And I don't mean to sound grumpy. I happen too have a toothache, raginging sinuses, and very painful gas at the moment.

BUT I agree with you. I'm not idsagreeing with you.

I'M NOT MAKING THE ARGUMENT THAT LOOPS, AND MIXED MATERIAL IS LIKELY TO ACHIEVE A SYNTAX AND thematic COMPLEXITY AND RESONENCE EQUIVALENT TO THE VISION OF A COMPOSER WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE DIRECTOR AND SERIOUSLY MAKING AN EFFORT TO TELL THE STORY OF THE SCREENPLAY BY UNDERLINING CERTAIN DRAMATIC, STORY, AND THEMATIC ELEMENTS AS THEY OCCUR AND RECUR DURING THE FILM.

Now whether its impossible to achieve that or something close to that using found material ... well anything is possible.

My whole point is someone can do a killer job of mixing loops. Depending on my time frame and my piece I might have to use them again though and i don't want a situation where I or anyone else wins using mixed material and people start bitching AGAIN and the winner hands it down and its tainted for the new winner.

I agree about the thematic richness possible when a single musical vision runs through and unites the piece. In fact I had some strong feelings about how the award should be handed down after I declined it, but that distinction was just too complicated to make and I was sick of hearing from the vocal minority.

My point is it's not slam dunk obvious all the time or a sure fire certainty that the guys around here wouldn't vote Pulp Fiction for best score over Close Encounters.

SOOOOOOOO

Better make it clear that it's for ORIGINAL music not just BEST USE OF MUSIC
and better have some way of TAGGING Those with original music (honor based of course). Becaue it sucks to get an award that the audience voted to someone else, or at least it's not as cool as winning it out right.

The only thing I disagree with you on is whether its necessarily a good thing to remember the music from a film or not in every instance, the notable exceptions you pointed out not withstanding.

Aaron Marshall
03-17-2006, 01:25 PM
ok ok, damn I sympathize with your toothache.

Side story: Last august I had a tooth yanked out of my head. It had been in bad shape for years. They couldn't numb it, but the oral surgeon started the operation anyway. I told him it wasn't numb so he drilled super hard through the top of the crown and gave it a shot right in the nerve. I could feel it like someone hooked up a live wire in my mouth. He drilled through the other side and did the same thing... it still would not numb! He cracked it with some sort of chisel looking thing and pulled it out quickly. It hurt for 2 weeks after that. I was in bad shape.

I hope your tooth gets to feeling better. When that happens music, film, world peace.... nothing matters!

Texture
03-19-2006, 11:36 PM
Whoa!

Hope everyone is feeling better soon.


Regarding a possible prize for best original music...

Composers aren't much different from you guys.

They are always looking for new tools to tell their story with.

Jack Daniel Stanley
03-19-2006, 11:55 PM
ok ok, damn I sympathize with your toothache.

Side story: Last august I had a tooth yanked out of my head. It had been in bad shape for years. They couldn't numb it, but the oral surgeon started the operation anyway. I told him it wasn't numb so he drilled super hard through the top of the crown and gave it a shot right in the nerve. I could feel it like someone hooked up a live wire in my mouth. He drilled through the other side and did the same thing... it still would not numb! He cracked it with some sort of chisel looking thing and pulled it out quickly. It hurt for 2 weeks after that. I was in bad shape.

I hope your tooth gets to feeling better. When that happens music, film, world peace.... nothing matters!

Well my toothache was nothing that bad -- actually just caused by really bad sinus pressure. I just got everything that's not really sick all at once - sinus, toothache, gas like you wouldn't believe and I was OK the next day and actually - Chloraseptic (the soar thraot spray) fixed my tooth right up.

But thanks for the sympathy I'm just a big baby -- if I have surgery or something i'm a tough guy, but gas and sinuses and I'll bitch all day long.

NOW ... back to the composer award ... I was actually just thinking maybe it could be a member sponsored category ... I think at least 10 members would cough up $10 for a pair of $100 monitor headphones or a maybe betrer - a gift card to guitar center. Something like that.

BUT Jarred doesn't like the members to pay for anything -- but if it was not mandetory -- a volunteer club like thing that supported it then that might work.

Aaron Marshall
03-20-2006, 11:37 AM
That's a really good idea. I'm up for it.