Advice on using 3d Photomontages

[flyerland]

I've recently been starting to do 3d photo montages for business and had some questions - if anyone isn't familar with what I'm talking about, it's pretty much scanning photos, cropping out the foreground from the background to make 2-3 layers of depth per photo, and flying around them in 3d space - popular effect I'm sure everyone has seen.

anyways, does anyone have experience doing this with after effects to lend advice? it's taking me @1hr a second , which I'm sure could come down - is After Effects a proper tool to do this in, or would a 3d modeling program like Maya/Cinema 4d be quicker?

Also does anyone know a good DPI range to use for something like this? I've been using 300.

Thanks.

[Derrick_SA]

yeah, AE is perfect for this.

head over to the www.dmnforums.com, and search for 2 and a half D, they got a cool tut on in.

- Derrick

[oneinfiniteloop]

This is also known as camera projection and there is a great chapter about it in Mark Christiansen's book, After Effects 6.5 Studio Techniques.

Also, in regrads to DPI, if it's only going to be displayed on monitors and TV's (which it sounds like it will) then 72dpi is all. 300dpi is for print and it's overkill for video.

[Matt Grunau]

This is also known as camera projection and there is a great chapter about it in Mark Christiansen's book, After Effects 6.5 Studio Techniques.

Also, in regrads to DPI, if it's only going to be displayed on monitors and TV's (which it sounds like it will) then 72dpi is all. 300dpi is for print and it's overkill for video.


Yeah, 72 is all you need providing you want the entire image on screen. If you use 300, you can use the composition window (with a little Optics Compensation filter) to move around the much larger "background" layer for some really dynamic stuff.

The Camera projection method is really cool, but is also overkill if you are simply wanting to have the appearance of depth with a few elements. Simply set up a composition, place the background image ou want, and then add any foreground elements you want. Change them to 3D layers, and move them closer to the camera along the Z axis.

Add a 3D camera if you want, and simply moving the camera around will establish parallax, and the illusion is complete.

3D software is going to give you the most impressive results, because instead of being flat layers, the image literally gets projected onto a 3D modeled background. The results you can get with this method can be absolutely amazing.

http://www.paramm.com/proj1.mov
http://www.paramm.com/proj2.mov
http://www.paramm.com/proj3.mov

Clips from the camera projection visual effects contest at CGtalk.com.

I did NOT do these (alhough I have come close with Lightwave) and I could not find the names of the people who did. The contest was well over a year ago. Mods, if any question as to posting rights are brought up, please remove the links, or PM me and I will gladly do so. But they are @*#&% awsome!

The Camera projection tutorial in After Effects Studio Techniques is an impressive (for being After Effects), but is a monsterous workaround, and is nowhere near what an actual 3D program can do.

[oneinfiniteloop]

The Camera projection tutorial in After Effects Studio Techniques is an impressive (for being After Effects), but is a monsterous workaround, and is nowhere near what an actual 3D program can do.

Yeah, it definately involves a lot of work to pull it off right. I think they were just trying to show what could be done in a 2.5D program with simply layers and mask, even though it's a @#$& to set up!

Now, real 3D projection...that is something that's a whole other ballpark!

[Matt Grunau]

Yeah, it definately involves a lot of work to pull it off right. I think they were just trying to show what could be done in a 2.5D program with simply layers and mask, even though it's a @#$& to set up!

Now, real 3D projection...that is something that's a whole other ballpark!


Download the Quicktime files I put up. Awsome stuff there.

[oneinfiniteloop]

I'll have to when I get home...no Quicktime here at work:(

[flyerland]

OK then,

So no 300 even if it gets blown up considerably - like a 3d camera right in someone's face?

Also can't find the tutorial - does anyone have more info on the DVforum article. Thanks.

[J.R. Hudson]

Matt !

These rock dude! Thanks for the tuorials. I have the Digital Tutors AE Essentials DVD but havent started it yet (Still junkying on XSI)

Are we saying those 3 clips are not from 3D models ? These are regular 2D images?

Huh ?

[oneinfiniteloop]

Yeah, number 3 is very nicely done!

It reminds me of how much more there is to learn!

[Matt Grunau]

Matt !

These rock dude! Thanks for the tuorials. I have the Digital Tutors AE Essentials DVD but havent started it yet (Still junkying on XSI)

Are we saying those 3 clips are not from 3D models ? These are regular 2D images?

Huh ?

Those clips are 3D models, and regular 2D images at the same time.

Those are 2D pictures, projected onto 3d modeled objects, and then with the proper camera moves (in your 3D app), the 3D looks more evident. The downside is there is limited movement you can do before 1, the image becomes "stretched" to the point it looks strange, and 2, you begin to see the overlapped sections of 2D image shown on multiple sets of polys. The upside is Photorealism workable in 3D, and using Photoshop to create custom landscapes you can animate in 3D.

Basically, imagine your camera is pointing straight at 3 cubes ( http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/rendering/camera_mapping/camera_mapping.html ), arranged 3D space to represent a picture you have of three boxes. Then you lay a picture directly over all of them. Then when you move your camera, the objects dimensions reveal themselves, altering the perspective of the 2D picture. Also, accurate shadowing can be achieved because you are creating shadow ON ACTUAL GEOMETRY!

And of course as you have seen, you can build landscapes to fit pictures and animate those as well.

Here's as tut for Cinema 4D, but it is so good, it will translate to anything:

http://www.3dfluff.com/cameramapping/cameramappingtut.htm

[kai]

Man great clips... tasty tasty

[MrPolarBare]

I prefer AE for your effect. I am not sure you are wanting as complex a solution that was offered here. I use Maya, but if I just want to make a 3d photo montage like you are talking about, then I'd use AE. You said, one of your main problems is that it takes too long. Well, thats exactly why I WOULDN'T do it in a 3d program. It will take even longer. In AE, once you load in your image, it is very easy to just drop it into a timeline and get cracking on it. Where with a 3D program, you need to create geometry (a model), then create a texture, and then apply it to the model. Then there are several other steps involved as well. Basically it goes like this. If you want something quick and easy, but still get good results, then go with AE. If you want to spend some time with the project and really make something powerful, then go with Maya (or whatever). It's funny that you mention this technique, because I just finished up a project where I did almost the exact same thing, except I did it with video instead of still shots. I'll post it up here, so you can see what I mean.

Mike McLin

[MrPolarBare]

OK, here are the clips I was talking about. These are two different shots from a Wakeskate Instructional dvd I just made. The first clip is from our "Grabs" chapter. It basically goes through all of the ways to grab the board, etc. Anyways, instead of just pausing the video, to show the grab, we figured creating a simple 3d photo look would be more interesting to watch.

As for the second clip, it is part of our intro to the dvd. It uses cropped up video clips which were then animated as 3d layers. Also, one of the goals of the 2nd clip was to make it look almost like they were pictures cut out with scissors. Thats why there are rough random edges on the shots. Anyways, I used AE and Photoshop to make both of these clips. If you have any questions about execution, then just let me know.

www.mclindigital.com/benihana.mov
www.mclindigital.com/wsIntro.mov

Mike

[Matt Grunau]

I prefer AE for your effect. I am not sure you are wanting as complex a solution that was offered here. I use Maya, but if I just want to make a 3d photo montage like you are talking about, then I'd use AE. You said, one of your main problems is that it takes too long. Well, thats exactly why I WOULDN'T do it in a 3d program. It will take even longer. In AE, once you load in your image, it is very easy to just drop it into a timeline and get cracking on it. Where with a 3D program, you need to create geometry (a model), then create a texture, and then apply it to the model. Then there are several other steps involved as well. Basically it goes like this. If you want something quick and easy, but still get good results, then go with AE. If you want to spend some time with the project and really make something powerful, then go with Maya (or whatever). It's funny that you mention this technique, because I just finished up a project where I did almost the exact same thing, except I did it with video instead of still shots. I'll post it up here, so you can see what I mean.

Mike McLin


For the basic 3D look with just a few elements, sure AE is faster. I was just telling the 3D program part because it can be a resonable alternative, and the results are much better. But, your right that ithe 3D route is (or can be) a much more time consuming thing, and not necessary if you just want some basic parallax.

Sure is cool though. I'de definately like to see your finished clip too. I have been wanting to get into Maya, but I think I will try Softimage instead, since from what I have read, its learning curve is smaller for folks coming from Lightwave.

Post your clip when you can please.

Maybe we should petition to get a 3D section here. Nothing program specific maybe, since this is more video oriented, but at least something.

EDIT: You just beat me to the post. Downloading now. 56k is gonna be a nightmare. I'll get back to you sometime in May.

*sighs and contemplates high speed for the umpth time*

[oneinfiniteloop]

Maybe we should petition to get a 3D section here. Nothing program specific maybe, since this is more video oriented, but at least something.

I like this idea, Rapier. Maybe we should do a poll in the Cafe and see what we can make happen. Something basic...

[Matt Grunau]

I like this idea, Rapier. Maybe we should do a poll in the Cafe and see what we can make happen. Something basic...


I'll PM Jarred, just to make sure he doesn't mind the poll, as it would be for a possible addition to the forum.

I'll PM you as soon as I get a response.