Canopus report

[Green Hornet]

Barry,
I am waiting for the report of Canopus broadcast before spending any more money.

Adobe Premiere does not support the HVX200 unless you use ray light, which is too slow

Vegas does not upport the HVX200, unless you use raylight, which is too slow.

Avid cost more than the camera, to do it right.

Final cut requires the PC user (me) to buy new hardware. On the cheap, a mac mini, $600, and final cut studio $1,200. =$1,800
I think I would have a hard time doing that, mainly due to the mac mini, being the bare minimum machine to suposedly do this.

A full blown mac dual 2.0 gig set up like Barrys cost about $2,000, plus final cut studio $1,200= $3,200. Then the 20+ inch flat screen, and you're over the $4,000 mark. Not being a mac guy, that's a tough step to make to the end from a means.

I spent over 10 grand in the last 30 days on related items to the HVX200.

I can almost finish my workflow.

I just need to know if canopus broadcast is worth the $1,000 to allow me to use my 3 gig P4, 1 gig ram laptop, untill I can pick individual parts to build my dream system desktop.

For a guy like me, does it make the best sense to go Canopus to "edit now", to hold me off for 6 months untill either Premiere gets faster and supports the HVX200, or a better $2,000 solution comes along?


Don't get me wrong, I like the Mac, I just don't feel I will like it unless I spend $4,500 on it, and then I won't like it for the price.

Why isn't anyone talking canopus broadcast with it's straight editing of HD.

[TwistedLincoln]

I too have much interest in this subject. I have no Mac hardware, and it would be expensive (and redundant) for me to aquire any.

Anyone here with info on Edius Broadcast, please educate us.

Is it substantially faster than Vegas (or similar) with Raylight?

Does it utilitze a hardware dongle, and if so, could one install it on their laptop for use in capturing, as long as they move the dongle from their PC when they use it? If it doesn't use a hardware dongle, what kind (if any) of product activation does it utilize?

Does it require Windows XP, or will Windows 2000 work as long as you don't use the HDV function?

Can anyone post a PDF of the User Manual? I can't find one...


By the way, utilizing Google's "Froogle" search, I found this site selling Edius Broadcast for only $799: http://www.sharbor.com/products/CANN0320015.html
Looks like it's only on sale until the 15th, though...

Amazon also has a couple of copies (literally, at the moment) for $829

[mule ferguson]

Green Hornet: What part of Va do you live. I will be glade to give you a demo on my Canopus Broadcast System's. Can't answer the P4 3 gig since I use a Dual Core AMD 4800 on my Laptop and a Dual Xeon 3,4 on my Desktop. The Edius is a lot more stable than my old system Matrox 2500 Adobe 1.5, It take's 2+weeksfor a n Adobe user to become aquainted with the timeline.
Your P4 might dissiapoint you if you tried to edit with it, There are very few of use Broadcast users on the list. and we are just getting up to speed. There is anothe guy that has posted from CA. on this list that works for a TV station I believe it was KORN, and WRAL in Raliegh is installing Edius Broadcast for the News gathering.
Mule Ferguson

[mule ferguson]

Does it utilitze a hardware dongle, and if so, could one install it on their laptop for use in capturing, as long as they move the dongle from their PC when they use it? If it doesn't use a hardware dongle, what kind (if any) of product activation does it utilize?




The Dongle is a USB Flash Card that can be used on 2 computers, Lots of ? can be answered at canopus.com Or call the tollfree # for Canopus in Calif. . They are very helpfull

http://www.canopus.com/products/EDIUSBroadcast/index.php
Mule Ferguson
Pumpkin Creek Video

[Barry_Green]

Thanks for stepping in there with some real-world answers, Mule.

My copy of Edius isn't here yet, and I fly out tomorrow and won't be back until Saturday, so don't look for any Edius reports from me anytime soon. Hopefully Mule and other Edius users can keep us posted on what the real story is with using this promising editing platform.

[brianluce]

Thanks for stepping in there with some real-world answers, Mule.

My copy of Edius isn't here yet, and I fly out tomorrow and won't be back until Saturday, so don't look for any Edius reports from me anytime soon. Hopefully Mule and other Edius users can keep us posted on what the real story is with using this promising editing platform.

edius is fast. very fast.

faster than the final cut machine i screwed around with...

very stable too.

[BigMike]

edius is fast. very fast.

faster than the final cut machine i screwed around with...

very stable too.


Fast and stable. Just the software only? No add on card?

Tech support says the GPU does a lot of the work for DVCPRO footage.

[brianluce]

Fast and stable. Just the hardare only?

Tech support says the GPU does a lot of the work for DVCPRO footage.

no, the software. edius the software. i don't know who is doing the work. hardware software underware. I don't know. i just know it's fast.

[Green Hornet]

Green Hornet: What part of Va do you live. I will be glade to give you a demo on my Canopus Broadcast System's. Can't answer the P4 3 gig since I use a Dual Core AMD 4800 on my Laptop and a Dual Xeon 3,4 on my Desktop. The Edius is a lot more stable than my old system Matrox 2500 Adobe 1.5, It take's 2+weeksfor a n Adobe user to become aquainted with the timeline.
Your P4 might dissiapoint you if you tried to edit with it, There are very few of use Broadcast users on the list. and we are just getting up to speed. There is anothe guy that has posted from CA. on this list that works for a TV station I believe it was KORN, and WRAL in Raliegh is installing Edius Broadcast for the News gathering.
Mule Ferguson


I live in Richmond VA.
I expect that it will be disapointing to try and edit from my P4 3gig laptop.
That would only be a temporary solution for cuts only edits, to learn the HVX200, and the edius software. Currently I am using premeire 2.0 and it is about 15 frames when trying to display 24 frames...that is very annoying.
I prefere to stay PC based. even though I would love a full blown mac. I am just not ready to spend $4,500 on one.

I am willing to put that type of money into a PC...if it can give me what I desire.
I like the ability to custom build my system, and have a system that I can physically upgrade when one component becomes obsolete. A PC based system allows that. If it is functional to use broadcast on the laptop, I will do so untill I can get the new AM2 style motherboard that supports my ddr2 memory on hand.

....You asked where I live, I see you are in NC. how far is that from Richmond?

[mule ferguson]

Richmond from North Wilkesboro is 41/2 or 5 hrs . I lived there about 8 years untill I got transfered back here to the Corporate Home of Lowe's I almost cried when I got the word. I loved that town. There is anothe guy on the Canopus form that has built a Edius System . You need to join the Canopus Forum. They are very good folks to answer your questions. If it had been for them I would have learned as fast on the system. There is one thing good you can make your timeline look like Adobe.
I say again with a good fast machine you will love this system.
I did pull my old FCP Powerebook out yeasterday and downloaded some footage shot in DV mode on the HVX. and will be editing today.
Even in DV mode this Camera kicks Arsh

[Green Hornet]

My understanding (based on talking to canopus guys, and using other canopus cards within premiere, but I don't have edius broadcast to speak directly to that)

is that Canopus built special cards to speed up editing in the past.
Then, hardware video cards developed faster than the ability for canopus to keep pace with. With the release of direct x from microsoft, it made more sense for canopus to stop inventing new hardware accelerators (due to cost) and just implement direct x to access the speed of the video card to do all the work.
This was, for one, cheaper to do, as they did not have to come up with the hardware. All they have to do is come up with the software to interface existing hardware. Unfortunately at first, video cards switched from using Vram memory to Gram. The latter was great for 3d, but suffered from not being able to multi-task the way Vram did for regular 2d video, and video editing. That only lasted a short time, as the gameing on PC's took off, and faster technology emerged.
Now, there are very fast video cards out there today that can be controlled by software alone, using direct x and other means.
Had Canopus held on to their proprietary hardware acceleration methods, their systems would be obsolete in comparison to what it could be by riding the backs of ATI and NVIDIA etc. Now, when you upgrade your video card, you upgrade the speed of your editing as well.

For real time HD editing, you need a minimum system that is either:
hyper-threaded at 3 ghz processor,
or dual core at 2.0 ghz processor.
You also need direct x, and a video card that supports at least 128megs (256 megs recommended) dedicated ram, not shared.

Again, I have only edited with Premiere and some Vegas on canopus hardware accelerated cards ( I have old systems that only do SD). The information provided above is based on users and research , but not by actually using broadcast.

For me, canopus has served me well to be a stable system to work on.
That, price and the ability to set up my system the way I like, and freely upgrade as needed or when needed without buying a whole new system has value to me.
I really, really, want to implement my removable hard drive idea. That can only be done by staying PC based.

Am I alone in wondering why the G5 tower does not allow one to install another 5/14 dvd, or other types of devices such as removable tray drives? I love the looks of the G5 case, but it totally lacks the usable space on the front.

Anyway, from my experience, Canopus has always been a stable software /hardware company. My only reservations with them is that they no longer embed their system to work within premiere. The last time I looked at edius editing software, it looked like they were computer engineers (which they are) who had no graphics department what so ever. It was not intuitive, nor pretty, just functional if you could figure it out. I did not like it at all.

With the NEED to edit HD, that seems to be the best, least expensive, and most rewarding way to go now that I have already spent over 10 grand on the HVX200 system. I will wait for a few more to give feedback, but I think that is the way I will go.

Looking back on what I just said, it seems Canopus was the single reason Premiere is still around. Adobe needs to take notice and fast. When I used Premiere, most everyone I knew was switching to something else, due to not having real time, and long render times. I think the only people who held on to premiere were those who had some sort of hardware accelerations means, otherwise, Premiere was just too slow. I dragged my feet in switching to the new 2.0 interface, and now I like it. It really is good, like dating a girl who's qualities you only know, and like your favorite pair of jeans. Unfortunately, without the speed, I feel now will be the time that the rest of us will go to something else.
I can't feel sorry for Adobe, as they had years to figure this out. With 2.0, they copied everyone else's workflow and features, but did nothing to address the speed of the overall system.

[TwistedLincoln]

That, price and the ability to set up my system the way I like, and freely upgrade as needed or when needed without buying a whole new system has value to me.

Not to harp on my usual "product activation" rant, but keep in mind this may not be possible. I too like the idea of being able to upgrade at will, but depending on how this USB key works, it may not be possible. I have no objection to having a hardware dongle to assure that I can only use the software on one machine at a time, but I really hate the idea of activation.

This afternoon, I'm going to pose this question on the Canopus forums: does the USB key store some kind of activation code on its memory that keeps you from uninstalling the program and re-installing it on a new machine (one you pass the 2 machine limit)? Or does it simply serve as a hardware dongle, and you are just legally allowed only two concurrent installs? There's a big difference there -- with option 2, you could upgrade your motherboard to support new, better CPUS, but if it stores activation info, you may never be able to make fundamental upgrades. And if the software requires XP, a similar problem exists with your OS.

[BigMike]

hardware software underware. I don't know. i just know it's fast.

That's the kind of answer I like.:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

[contentlab]

Does it utilitze a hardware dongle, and if so, could one install it on their laptop for use in capturing, as long as they move the dongle from their PC when they use it? If it doesn't use a hardware dongle, what kind (if any) of product activation does it utilize?

Does it require Windows XP, or will Windows 2000 work as long as you don't use the HDV function?


it does use a little USB hardware dongle. my tech support guys at ProMax say that I can install Broadcast on multiple machines and just swap the dongle. the dongle is only for Broadcast, i could still use edius but not the special broadcast features such as P2 editing. i haven't verified this yet since i only have it installed on one machine.

the box for Broadcast says you need WinXP Pro or Home, no Win2000 support it seems.

i am still trying to get Broadcast installed on antoehr machine, a single chip P4 3gHz machine, however that won't happen until the Thursday or even until Wednesday of next week since I'm off work this upcoming Friday and Monday.

i've only used Broadcast a bit since installing it last week. i'm having trouible getting it to download and merge clips that span 2 cards but that is more likely because i'm doing something wrong (i tend to do things first and THEN read the manual). but what i've done with it so far is nice. the interface is very different than what i'm used to with Vegas and PremPro and that is both good and bad.

i will do my best to get more updates when i can but am short on time this week.

mule, what canopus forum are you recommending we go to for answers? the one at the canopus site or someplace like creative cow?

thanks

[mule ferguson]

http://forum.canopus.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat=
Try this

I can't remember but you have to sign up for the whole list of forums.
There is very little going on in the Broadcast forum.
Mule

[mule ferguson]

"My copy of Edius isn't here yet,"

Barry:
We are looking forward to hear a real Pro tell us about Edius Broadcast. Lot's of new stuff for me to learn with the Broadcast and DVCPro. I'm still shooting projects in DV (Freebies) and just playing around with the HD to be up to speed when $ projects are filmed.

Have a good Shoot.
Mule

[TwistedLincoln]

Well I registered on the Canopus forums, and did some digging. The results are dissappointing...

--
Quote: Canopus_JR:

"Just to clear this one up early...

Edius Pro3 = Edius Pro3

Edius Broadcast = Edius Pro3 + Broadcast Options

Edius Pro3 needs to be activated.

Broadcast Options do not need to be activated because of the dongle.

Therefore, if you buy Edius Broadcast it still has to be activated. Removing and replacing the dongle simply removes or replaces the Boradcast Options only. "

--
I was really hoping Edius Broadcast would be the ultimate solution for editing footage for this camera. I guess I have to keep looking.

[jjb]

With Edius Pro3 you have a 2nd license included for free (not for concurrent use). Install it on your 2nd system and activate again. This is only valid for software versions. I have EDIUS Broadcast on a P4 system and I am going to install it on my new notebook too. Unfortunately I'll have to wait another few weeks to get my HVX200E (European Version).

[Green Hornet]

I just bought it today. Should have it in a few days.
I think it sounds like something I can deal with.
I only need it to run on 2 systems (laptop, and desktop that I am building).

In the past my canopus systems have served me well, the canopus HQ codec for HD, sounds like it may also give me more room to correct color and black noise.
Hopefully it will allow me to get a better gradient if nothing else.

My 6 year old DV systems still work like day one. They are just dv though.

[icicle22]

I just bought it today. Should have it in a few days.
I think it sounds like something I can deal with.
I only need it to run on 2 systems (laptop, and desktop that I am building).

In the past my canopus systems have served me well, the canopus HQ codec for HD, sounds like it may also give me more room to correct color and black noise.
Hopefully it will allow me to get a better gradient if nothing else.

My 6 year old DV systems still work like day one. They are just dv though.

Green Hornet,
Can you let us know what system specs are of the system you are testing it on? Both your laptop and Desktop. I am on the fence myself and look forward to hearing your results.

Peace!

[Green Hornet]

Green Hornet,
Can you let us know what system specs are of the system you are testing it on? Both your laptop and Desktop. I am on the fence myself and look forward to hearing your results.

Peace!


I just ordered it, and do not have it yet. I will let you know how it goes when i get it in a few days. It will be first put on a laptop P4 3.06 ghz processor 1 gig ram. Then put on a custom built desktop. With 256 or 512 video card pci express (didn't buy this yet). 2 gig ddr2 ram, 7200rmp sata drives. would like to get an AM2 chipset/motherboard, but won't be released untill june, so I may get something else depending on how the laptop runs.

In my privious post, I was refering to SD dv.
With that system, the canopus Raptor in one system and strom in the other.
The latter had a 1.8 gig processor I believe, and the raptor has (2) P3 1 gig cpus.
For DV, they work real time and are very stable.
Of course I can't use that for HD.

My laptop does edit HD using premiere 2.0 and ray light codec.
It just does not play back faster than about 15 frames/sec instead of 24p.
It only became that fast after adusting something in the video card parameters.
I relate this slowness to the raylight codec.
I am sure this will be as expected once the codecs are multithreaded for 64bit processing and dual processing. On the PC, the hardware it there, the software is just lacking.

Canopus has been working on this type of thing for years, I am sure it will edit just fine, but I will follow up.

[JimJulian]

Hey Green Hornet,
I use Edius at work with the HVX (I have 3 cameras) and this NLE works very well, but only if you use a dual processor Xeon and the Canopus hardware. You will be very pleased with the performance and render times. Lap tops and single processors??? I think you will struggle.

Jim
KRON-Tv, San Francisco

[ROne]

Guys is there any specific laptop than can come close to a workstation in terms of power with edius?

My experience of laptops are that they are always a bit sluggish, but I've not had a super powerful one.

[mule ferguson]

http://www.xtremenotebooks.com
Custom Gamming and Alien also sell some very fast laptops.
They are a little bit on the heavy as in "Delta Burk"


I use a Dual Core 4800/AMD
2g ram
200 0 raid
Edius Broadcast
Windows XP
Very fast
Mule Ferguson

[ROne]

http://www.xtremenotebooks.com
Custom Gamming and Alien also sell some very fast laptops.
They are a little bit on the heavy as in "Delta Burk"


I use a Dual Core 4800/AMD
2g ram
200 0 raid
Edius Broadcast
Windows XP
Very fast
Mule Ferguson

Thanks for that.

Is there a dedicated laptop spec/preferred chipset for optimum and minimum performance to cut DVCHD720 with EdiusBroadcast on a laptop?

[Green Hornet]

Hey Green Hornet,
I use Edius at work with the HVX (I have 3 cameras) and this NLE works very well, but only if you use a dual processor Xeon and the Canopus hardware. You will be very pleased with the performance and render times. Lap tops and single processors??? I think you will struggle.

Jim
KRON-Tv, San Francisco


You say "canopus hardware"...which hardware are you refering to?
My understanding is that any hardware is for capture and output via non-firewire means, or for HDV use, not DVCPRO HD.

I am not aware of any hardware the speeds up the panasonic or canopus HQ codec. If there is some hardware to do this, I would really like to know about it.
So far, I have not heard many who have canopus AND the HVX200.
Mule is the only one I know of, and I believe he has one bad A$$ laptop that cost like $4,500.

My feeling is once you get the ability to edit in real time with full frame playback, I can hold at that point untill something dramatically changes the speed.
It is not worth it to me to be the early adapter to obtain the fastest system, at the highest prices. I just need one step up from the minimum system....for now.

[BigMike]

You say "canopus hardware"...which hardware are you refering to?


I was talking to tech support about the hardware and yes; Edius relies on your GPU to work on the DVCPRO HD footage. The PCI-X cards don't speed up the realtime editing at all.

I'm thinking that it's not a solution for laptops. However, capturing the data in the field with a laptop and then bringing the data home and working it on your workstation would be fine.

[Green Hornet]

I was talking to tech support about the hardware and yes; Edius relies on your GPU to work on the DVCPRO HD footage. The PCI-X cards don't speed up the realtime editing at all.

I'm thinking that it's not a solution for laptops. However, capturing the data in the field with a laptop and then bringing the data home and working it on your workstation would be fine.


I thought you were talking about an add on card of some sort (that I was not aware of them making). You stated that Edius relies on your GPU to work on the DVCPRO HD footage. DVCPRO HD is only supported in Broadcast, so I will assume that is what you mean.

The GPU is part of the video card, so how can it not speed up the performance.
If i got a faster video card (the gpu is faster). Unless the graphics is implimented in the northbridge (as in some cheaper systems), it should be faster. I believe many of the newer systems with high amounts of ram (over 64) for video are not shared, even in laptops.

In any case, I think we are both stating that the speed should increase in a desktop with a fast video card and high video card ram.

I also think that laptops over 64megs video ram, have dedicated ram for video and hence should also be faster.

Can't wait to get my broadcast to give a real world user report.

I think the software integration is what allows the mac to do this same thing with lower end systems. It seems as if Canopus is the only one who uses the open gl, or direct x to do this, and that is why it in theory should be a workable solution.

We will see.

[mule ferguson]

" The PCI-X cards don't speed up the realtime editing at all.

I'm thinking that it's not a solution for laptops. However, "

The reason to have the fastest Processor and lots of Ram and 2 Sata Raid 0 Drives in the laptop. Canopus decided to go with software rather than hardware.
Ala Matrox, Adobe. To many conflicts. Yes I still have Matrox RT2500/Adobe 6.0 and Adobe 1.5/Matrox RT100.

The video card only gives you RT playback . some cards perform better with the 3d transitions included with Pro 3 Broadcast

I will say that if you want a laptop to hum, you have to have
2 7200 or 10.000 sata raid 0
Dual Core AMD Or Intel (the AMD runs cooler and a little faster)
2 G Ram
in the computer. Thats the reason my over priced computer cost so much. It almost like a Desktop

Mule:kali::kali:

[SalaTar]

http://www.xtremenotebooks.com
Custom Gamming and Alien also sell some very fast laptops.
They are a little bit on the heavy as in "Delta Burk"


I use a Dual Core 4800/AMD
2g ram
200 0 raid
Edius Broadcast
Windows XP
Very fast
Mule Ferguson

Btw Clevo makes those if you look youll find them cheaper

www.clevo.com (http://www.clevo.com)

http://www.clevo.com.tw/products/D900K.asp

[mule ferguson]

Do not see anyway to compare the Clevo price to my purchase.
Mule

[SalaTar]

They are a manufacturer

Boxx sells em

dv411 also

and many other resellers are out there

[BigMike]

I thought you were talking about an add on card of some sort (that I was not aware of them making). You stated that Edius relies on your GPU to work on the DVCPRO HD footage. DVCPRO HD is only supported in Broadcast, so I will assume that is what you mean.

yes, that's what I mean, but they do make PCI X cards and breakout boxes that I believe are called edius NX with expansion pack.

I'm not sure Edius is for me and I've been considering Avid.

Went to a seminar last night and the guy in front of me asked how Avid Xpress Pro handles the DVCpro HD footage. The speaker answered sure it does, then in the same sentence mentioned adrenaline and Nitro, then quickly went to the next question.

I like my PC but I feel like the powers that be are trying to leverage me into buying a Mac! If I buy a Mac I need to buy a Biggie so I can do my After Effects work. Then, by next year, my new computer will be obsolete because they will have switched to the Intel chip. I don't want to buy a Mac.

So, Green Hornet, you and I are in the same PC boat. I'm trying to make a decision before Memorial Day. I have the biggest shoot of my pitiful life that day and I need solutions before then. If not for my computer platform, then a way to capture hours of footage in 720pn on three cameras!

It's all very frustrating!

Cuantos the Wrester (when he is incogneto) reminds me that it's better to be frustrated before you spend the money than after you spend the money. He ought to know, what with being a wrestler and all.

Hopefully a solution will present itself before then.

[JimJulian]

We use Canopus NX with expansion kit. This give us a component output to an HD monitor. Very, very important for double-checking color. I'm assuming that this card helps with render, playback, etc. but I have no data to prove how much faster.

[mule ferguson]

I priced the Boxx system to the same goodies the Xtreme I purchased, and I bought it for $300.00 less. From the photos it lookes to be the same computer except fpr the logo plate on the top. the Xtreame has an X.
Extreme will also give you a 2% discount for paying with cash. I purchased with a bank draft.
Mule

"Real Men Wear Kilts"

[contentlab]

So, Green Hornet, you and I are in the same PC boat. I'm trying to make a decision before Memorial Day. I have the biggest shoot of my pitiful life that day and I need solutions before then. If not for my computer platform, then a way to capture hours of footage in 720pn on three cameras!

Hopefully a solution will present itself before then.

yes it's called NAB at the end April. by then hopefully someone will have either answered your worries or manufacturers will have come up with some new solutions.

not sure how hard it is for you to get to Vegas but it's about the hottest show to attend for camera geeks aside from DVExpo

[BigMike]

not sure how hard it is for you to get to Vegas but it's about the hottest show to attend for camera geeks aside from DVExpo

Sure is tempting!

[Green Hornet]

My version of Edius Broadcast is HERE!
That is great news.

What is even better news is that it works as expected.
It previews live, no frame drops.

It is very nice.
It can mix footage of different file sizes.
It can even output for the web.

The layout will take some getting use to, and I really would rather premiere be working, but hey, this works just like it was SD.

It seems as if the speed thing is based on processor speed, but it is working very fast, almost real time to render simple cuts and transitions. Actually, it took 4 seconds to do a basic transition, and any playback will be real time view if you have 128 meg video card or faster.

With the laptop having only 64meg video ram, it plays footage and cuts realtime with no frame drops.

This is currently on my laptop that is a P4 3.06gz processor with a gig of ram.
Nothing to brag about.

If i can figure out the interface, everything will be great from here.


I really can't stand trying to edit on a laptop, so now I can go ahead with the plans to build a desktop pc to view this in all it's glory.


Later..got some learning to do.

[mule ferguson]

http://www.panoramaproductions.net/edius_tutorials.htm
This will help in your transition to Edius. Hang in there , In about a week you will see the light at the end of the tunnell. If you have ? post it here. If I can't answer, Barry will be up and running shortly, Justyn is an Edius user also.
Mule

[mule ferguson]

Jim Julian is the othe Edius User that post. My Brain Fart
Mule

[Barry_Green]

It showed up today, but I'm headed out on a job right now, so I'll get to it in the next few days hopefully...

[soarprod]

DOH, I already ordered my Quad G5 :)

[BigMike]

DOH, I already ordered my Quad G5

And I ordered Avid HD 5.2... Got it for 600 bucks on Ebay. I'll be back cursing about it if I get ripped off.

[brianluce]

My version of Edius Broadcast is HERE!
That is great news.

What is even better news is that it works as expected.
It previews live, no frame drops.

It is very nice.
It can mix footage of different file sizes.
It can even output for the web.

The layout will take some getting use to, and I really would rather premiere be working, but hey, this works just like it was SD.

It seems as if the speed thing is based on processor speed, but it is working very fast, almost real time to render simple cuts and transitions. Actually, it took 4 seconds to do a basic transition, and any playback will be real time view if you have 128 meg video card or faster.

With the laptop having only 64meg video ram, it plays footage and cuts realtime with no frame drops.

This is currently on my laptop that is a P4 3.06gz processor with a gig of ram.
Nothing to brag about.

If i can figure out the interface, everything will be great from here.


I really can't stand trying to edit on a laptop, so now I can go ahead with the plans to build a desktop pc to view this in all it's glory.


Later..got some learning to do.


doesn't edius broadcast include a hardware board of some kind? if so, you're just using the software on your laptop. is it possible to improvise a standalone house for the hardware? be nice to have a laptop with component or sdi capability.

[stabwound]

I think it's high time someone did an Editing Software shootout... with pros and cons of working with each. And the most inexpensive route to take.

I've been checking on various software... and man, it's information overload.

[Barry_Green]

Edius Broadcast doesn't have any sort of hardware board, it's software only. You can use it in conjunction with their various hardware products if you want (like the SP or NX boards) but it's also usable as a software-only product.

[ROne]

Their line up seems somewhat confusing.

Am i right in thinking if I want a HD output to a monitor from edius you have to get the NX-HD upgrade pack?

http://www.canopus.com/products/EDIUSNXforHDV/index.php

Even then it doesn't seem to mention a spec in the component output that would suit 720p for the panasonic.

These are the outputs listed...

DV/DVCAM - 720x480/59.94i (NTSC), 720x576/50i (PAL)

HDV - 1080/59.94i (NTSC), 1080/50i (PAL), 1080/30p (NTSC), 1080/25p (PAL), 1080/24p, 720/30p (NTSC), 720/25p (PAL), 720/24p, 720x480/60p (NTSC), 720x576/25p (PAL), 720x576/50p (PAL)

S-Video, composite - 720x480/59.94i (NTSC), 720x576/50i (PAL)

BNC component - 1080/59.94i (NTSC), 1080/50i (PAL), 720x480/59.94i (NTSC), 720x576/50i (PAL)

Or have I missed something?

[soarprod]

On the Canopus boards, they told me that the matrox avpe works.

[icicle22]

My version of Edius Broadcast is HERE!
That is great news.

What is even better news is that it works as expected.
It previews live, no frame drops.

It is very nice.
It can mix footage of different file sizes.
It can even output for the web.

The layout will take some getting use to, and I really would rather premiere be working, but hey, this works just like it was SD.

It seems as if the speed thing is based on processor speed, but it is working very fast, almost real time to render simple cuts and transitions. Actually, it took 4 seconds to do a basic transition, and any playback will be real time view if you have 128 meg video card or faster.

With the laptop having only 64meg video ram, it plays footage and cuts realtime with no frame drops.

This is currently on my laptop that is a P4 3.06gz processor with a gig of ram.
Nothing to brag about.

If i can figure out the interface, everything will be great from here.


I really can't stand trying to edit on a laptop, so now I can go ahead with the plans to build a desktop pc to view this in all it's glory.


Later..got some learning to do.

Keep the info coming. This sounds like great news so far! I was just about to pull the trigger on getting a dual G5 (which I really can't afford) but if Edius gives me a working PC alternative then I might go that route.

Can you check to see if having Edius installed adds any options for the Adobe products? I don;t mean realtime effects or anything but some new codecs for rendering or at least verify that the filrs you create in Edius can be pulled into AE or Premiere for tweaking later.

Thanks and please let us know how it goes!

details details details!

[soarprod]

The canopus HQ codec gets installed and yes you can pull that into premiere - but it is a little cluncky for editing in that form (not tested with DVCproHD only HDV footage generated in Edius 3.61)

But, as soon as you get past how fast Edius is, you will realize that you are limited. Even with simple things like a DVE - annoyingly poor implimentation. Keyframing is bad. If you are coming from PPro, you'll hate it. Plus, you can render video fine but how do you output audio for mixing elsewhere ? Guess what... you have to do a EDL export WTF? And then buy some translation software and convert to OMF.

Edius seems as though it was designed for broadcast people that want a cuts only edit done quickly. I was considering buying it to hold me over until something comes out for PPro. But, when you consider that Edius + that EDL convert program is around $1300 and then PPro's solution probably will be $400 to $1000. That is a lot to spend for supporting the HVX.

I was also looking to buy the new production studio @ $1249 and I finally came to the realization that a G5 with Final Cut is only a little more but I get all my desired features right now. Going from PPro to FCS is not that difficult. Sure it still has a little trouble with 1080i24pa in DVCproHD right now, but I will mostly be using 720/24pN.

[icicle22]

Soarpod,
I downloaded edius trial and played with some HDV clips I have downloaded and I was not impressed at all. I have a DVstorm card and used it for years in Premiere for RT standard def stuff so I am by no means anti-Canopus. But I have used FCP on my Mac-MIni and it had pretty good performance so a dual G5 will be better. Plus I am assuming that there is some level of integration between FCP and Adobe products.....you can probably import .psd files into FCP and retain transparencies and stuff....right? I hope.

The biggest question I have is what file format to output to from FCP for use on a PC. I have the entire Adobe suite on PC and would like to work with output files from FCP....I know the DVCPRO quicktimes don't work....and uncompressed is just too big. Is there another usable codec for both that retains quality?

[Green Hornet]

doesn't edius broadcast include a hardware board of some kind? if so, you're just using the software on your laptop. is it possible to improvise a standalone house for the hardware? be nice to have a laptop with component or sdi capability.


Edius Broadcast includes a dongle to allow you to do DVC PRO 50, DVC PRO 100, and work directly with the mxf files without having a wrapper.
In broadcast the HVX's mxf files are just like avi's, only the have an mxf extension.


Icicle22- I don't believe you get to do the HVX codec with the trial, as you need the dongle, that only comes with broadcast.
HDV, I believe, needs to be converted to another codec, or you will have to render everything, I think.

[icicle22]

Edius Broadcast includes a dongle to allow you to do DVC PRO 50, DVC PRO 100, and work directly with the mxf files without having a wrapper.
In broadcast the HVX's mxf files are just like avi's, only the have an mxf extension.


Icicle22- I don't believe you get to do the HVX codec with the trial, as you need the dongle, that only comes with broadcast.
HDV, I believe, needs to be converted to another codec, or you will have to render everything, I think.

You are right about that. No DVCPRO or mxf support. But I was able to get a feel for the workflow and wasn't overly thrilled. Canopus has always been efficient at code so I always got better realtime on there software vs. Adobe. But the lack of features are too much to overcome for me at this point.

[soarprod]

I am not quite sure how to bring stuff into my pc for say after effects. Will find out soon tho :)

[cici]

I'm working with Liquid Edition on SD -

Internet research teaches me that Liquid Edition supports DVCPRO-HD and P2 metadata.....

As I didn't read any experience yet here, I wonder whether any of you knows more or has experience with LE and P2 editing.

I'd love to keep LE with its special desktop structure, free speed control at any frame, autosave of each "click" conserving complete history, rendering during work etc. .

FCP would mean that I'd have to buy a Mac. And Canopus: ..... well... I didn't work yet with Canopus....

Any thoughts?

[Barry_Green]

Liquid doesn't support P2 HD yet. It will support P2 DVCPRO50, but not HD. Hopefully in the next revision they'll add HD support.

For more info on Liquid, contact member StephenLNoe. He's a big fan of Liquid.

[JimJulian]

Green Hornet,

First of all. I'm a bit surprised that you can play back HVX HD on a laptop. My attempts at that failed. Dual Xeon would be minimal. We also use the Canopus NX card on our 5 machines and the performance is very good. Plays like DV. Canopus will be announcing shortly( probably NAB in April) an upgrade to version 4.0. This will add more features. I would expect that this product will continue to grow and mature since it was recently bought by Thompson/Grass Valley. They make big production switchers and plan on expanding their broadcast base with Edius.

Most of the shows we edit are fairly simple. Track config might look like this:

V1 Titles
V2 Graphics/effects (Stills, chroma keys, etc)
V3 B-roll
V4 A-roll

A1 A-roll channel 1
A2 A-roll channel 2
A3 B-roll channel 1
A4 B-roll channel 2
A5 Voice Over
A6 Music
A7 Sound Effects

The program comes with TitleMotion Pro which is great for animating graphics. The pan and scane feature in Edius is OK but Canopus makes a little program called Imaginate that does that very very well. Canopus also makes a program called ProCoder that converts just about any video to any other video. Quality is very good.

There are things I wish Edius did better like keyframing, clip logging, and audio mixing. Future versions are sure to have 5.1 audio and multi-cam editing. But their is nothing in the program that would prevent you from winning an Emmy for your latest feature documentary, travel series, or commercial. :love4:
Your high end effects can be done in After Effects and imported easily into Edius exactly the same way we do it in FCP and Avid. One of the nice parts about Edius is that accepts just about anything.

Best,

jim

[Barry_Green]

Okay, I've used Canopus Edius Broadcast for approximately two minutes so far. Here's the initial reaction:

1. I opened a project that was 720/24p. I imported a bunch of 720/24p files that I had on my hard disk. Hit play -- they play back at full frame rate. Now, mind you, I can't figure out how to play 'em in full size yet, so it's just the preview window size (which is maybe 480x720 or so) but it plays back at FULL FRAME RATE. Raylight would give me maybe 12fps, Avid would be maybe 3fps. Canopus is playing 'em back at full frame rate off the internal hard disk. This is a good sign.

2. Decided to push it a bit, and I went and shot a 1080/60i clip. Put the card in the laptop slot, imported the file into the timeline. Note: no goofing around, no import/unwrap/rewrap, no copying to avid mediafiles/mxf/1... just import off the card. Dropped that file on a 1080/60i timeline, and hit play. Yep -- full frame rate on a 1080/60i clip.

3. Looked through the other options for timeline, and yep, there's 1080/24p and 1080/24pa and 1080/30p. Apple can't do that. Avid can't do that. Until Edius, only Raylight could support those files.

Okay, so take this report for what it's worth -- I know *nothing* about the software yet, I don't know what Edius can do and what it can't do, heck, I can't even figure out how to get a file to play back full-screen (if it can). But so far, it's downright impressive how well it's working, considering how poorly other PC apps have performed on this same laptop. It's making the HVX integration effortless so far!

[Green Hornet]

Barry, that is my experience as well....even on my laptop.
I can't figure out how to do much other than play the files, and do transitions, but I can't figure out how to cut from the time line, only from the preview window, which it called something else.

AS for the Xeon processors, I hear they are not all they are promoted as being, in many cases a modern processor suposedly outperforms them at half the clock cycle. I have not personally bench tested them, but have seen many tests reports from others.

[dregenthal]

I have not had the Avid product long enough to give an intelligent report however I can state that I am able to live capture and import MXF files into it on both my (old) Dell 530 WS (dual 2gig Xeons and 2gigs ram) and my Toshiba Satellite P25 series (3gig P4 and 1 gig of ram). Both machines play back the video and audio (in the preview window) in real time.

Note: I also purchased Raylight (for use with Premiere 1.5) but have been disappointed with it thus far. The suggestion someone made the other day regarding importing a quicktime reference file (out of Avid Xpress Pro HD) into PP 1.5 using custom settings worked for me. I will say unequivocally, that without native support for the HVX, Adobe has seen the my last dollar (for Premiere).

[Andreas]

Barry, I sugest you take a look at this tutorials, download the high bandwidth clips

http://www.canopus.com/support/tutorials/EDIUS.php

[icicle22]

I know this is a little off topic but I am actually going to pick up my new Dual 2 ghz G5 today. I am getting it new at a ridiculous low price for a MAC. I already have a mac-mini and a copy of Final Cut Pro Studio. The difference in price between buying Edius Broadcast and this Dual G5 is less than $500 bucks. I have been using a PC for years but playing around with FCP on my Mac Mini has shown great promise.

Add to this my PC is becoming outdated fast. So it seems I will be due to buy/build a new higher powered PC this year anyway.....so the MAC at this price seems like an awesome deal.

Anyone want to weigh in on this?

[lpcvideo1]

I'm trying to hang in there with Liquid--hoping they'll at least announce support for HD soon. I'm getting itchy, though, and I'm liking the Canopus reports so far. Looking forward to reading more of all'y'all's experiences with it.

[jazzx]

If you're getting a dual G5, already have a mac mini and a pc for basic(or more) stuff then getting another machine this year would be too much, you already have everything you need man, spend it on storage or cam. accessories if you have the extra dough

[Green Hornet]

I know this is a little off topic but I am actually going to pick up my new Dual 2 ghz G5 today. I am getting it new at a ridiculous low price for a MAC. I already have a mac-mini and a copy of Final Cut Pro Studio. The difference in price between buying Edius Broadcast and this Dual G5 is less than $500 bucks. I have been using a PC for years but playing around with FCP on my Mac Mini has shown great promise.

Add to this my PC is becoming outdated fast. So it seems I will be due to buy/build a new higher powered PC this year anyway.....so the MAC at this price seems like an awesome deal.

Anyone want to weigh in on this?


I got edius Broadcast for $799 here:
http://www.sharbor.com/products/CANN0320015.html

So your saying you can get a Dual G5 with Final cut pro for $500 more = $1,299
Yeah if I could have done that, I would have gone that route as well, but I couldn't so I got Edius Broadcast, and will try and learn it untill Premiere Pro gets updated to work in real time with HD Panasonic..

[icicle22]

I have Final Cut Pro SUite already through where I work. I am running it on my Mac Mini. I will move it over to the G5 at no cost. The Dual G5 is costing me $1300 out the door...new as a clearance at a local shop.

The other issue is my editing PC is becoming seriously dated. 3ghz P4 with 2gb ram. It is an old mother board and no PCI-x for expansion. So there is no upgrade path. I feel a new PC would be in order sometime this year anyway.

[icicle22]

Hold the fort. This dual G5 is an old model....well kinda. It is old stock and has 2 actual processors as opposed to the dual core of the current 2 ghz G5. Now what is interesting is it has only PCI slots and only 4 memory slots. However earlier models of this computer used PCI Xpress slots and had 8 memory slots. WTF?

In april of last year apple re-released this exact model and stripped the PCI-X and RAM features. So if it were the old model it would have a faster newer bus. The newer model has hte older slower bus and less features....yet that sell as being the same.

Hmmm....

With no PCI-X options I am not feeling the love........

NO MAC FOR YOU!!!

:(

[Jarred Land]

hey everyone.. check it out they just released a free 30 day demo download:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=49828

[SalaTar]

Jarred ,
The Canopus demo rocks on PC!!!!!

[Jarred Land]

Jarred ,
The Canopus demo rocks on PC!!!!!

oh yeah baby.. full real time playback and all. I still dont know what the hell im doing in there and cant seem to link the audio automatically but man its a powerful program.

[SalaTar]

Avid take note Canopus on your Arse

[TwistedLincoln]

I've been looking at the new demo, and beginning to reconsider my position... for starters, it does appear to install on Windows 2000, and while I haven't had a chance to really test it, that's a good start.

I did some reading throught the Edius Pro 3 user manual PDF, and there is no reference to Product Activation. There is also no reference in the Edius Broadcast manual (only a reference to the hardware dongle). The only place I can find any info on activation is from the Edius help files, and they only mention it in reference to the Procoder Express software. Is this the only part of Edius that needs activation? If not, could those of you who own the full product go into some detail about it? For example, after the 30 days for activation are up, will the entire Edius product stop working until you activate, or only certain features? With Vegas 6, I can live with activation because only Mpeg2 encoding and AC3 creation are disabled if you fail to activate. As I can do both functions with other programs, this isn't a big deal. So if I am ever denyed activation (because I've activated too many times, or because I need to re-activate over the phone in the middle of the night when no on is there, or because the company stops supporting the product, etc), I can still use most of the progam's features. If this is the case with Edius, I would certainly consider purchasing it.

Having read most of the posts on the Canopus forums regarding activation, there seems to be several users upset about it. Apparently there are several reports of the program kicking out your activation codes, even after you activate it, causing you to have to re-activate, and waste a precious activation (from what I've read, you can only activate 3 times before Canopus tells you "too bad for you"). Sadly, no one there seems to want to go into any detail about the actual activation process, and what is or isn't disabled if you fail to activate.

Also, for those of you who use Vegas with Raylight, could you by chance offer a brief review of tje editing preformace difference with Edius?

[SalaTar]

The demo is the fabled release 3.61 Japanese ver. right before the merger/tackover/buyout with Thompson...

In other words Canopus was goung to offer the codec pack free as an upgrade but Thompson made it Broadcast and pay to play

[JimJulian]

Barry,

Glad to hear your laptop is playing back at full frame rate. I can only say that if you like Edius on a laptop you'll love it on a quicker machine. My station has over 75 licenses of this program, most of them are cutting DV for news from Sony Z1s. My department is doing the HD stuff with the Z1s and now the HVX. Aside from the RT playback, one of the things I like about Edius, and Canopus in general, is how stable it is. Very few crashes, if any, while cutting HD. My Liquid Edition in SD took me months to iron out all the problems. With Edius you can concentrate on editing.

I met the President of Canopus (very nice man) and when I asked about the HVX and P2 he just smiled. I mean a big smile. He knew something last year that we are only beginning to understand now about this program.

As I said earlier, Edius is not without faults, but speed is not one of them. It's an absolute joy to make changes quickly in HD and not have to wait for a long render or stare at a choppy playback.


Happy cutting,

Jim
KRON-TV, San Francisco

ps. If the group is interested I can invite some Edius trainers to join this forum. I'm not sure how much HVX stuff they know, but they can answer interface and operational questions.

[Jarred Land]

yeah Jim.. my workstation is at the higher end of things and it just blazes through P2.. no recompress, just load the clip and its ready to play.

Incredible.

[mule ferguson]

Hey Jim I second that. This system is one that runs sooooooo smoooooove. I had a problem with mine at first but found out is was the power supply. I use a Dual Xeon 3.4
Jim I talked to James in support an ask him to come on the list an help. He said there was only 3 of them in support and they could barely keep up.
Sure would be nice to have Mike Downey on board .

Mule

[JimJulian]

Mule,
Mike is the man who trained about 80 of us at KRON. Good guy. I'll make contact. Also I know the VP of Marketing for Canopus in San Jose. He should be made aware of dvxuser. He could provide "Jan-like" knowledge on the editting side.

jim

[ROne]

If you are working with P2 led material in EdiusBroacast - do you get a downrezzed output of DV to the firewire in real-time?

What sort of chips/boards/memory are giving the best results?

thanks. ROne.

[JWinter]

well, if the comapny is listening I'd say implement Vegas style Audio featrures and I'd come on board.

even FCP struggles with this..


this app does look really useful though

would be fun to try...does it do the live HVX capture like FCP? (i dont have a P2 card!!)

[Jarred Land]

well what do you guys thing.. should i open up a canopus forum here?

[TwistedLincoln]

A seperate Canopus forum would be greatly appreciated!

[icicle22]

yeah Jim.. my workstation is at the higher end of things and it just blazes through P2.. no recompress, just load the clip and its ready to play.

Incredible.

Jarred,
Do you mind commenting on what your workstations is? Dual athlons? Xeons? i386sx?

:)

[Jarred Land]

PC XT 33mhz with Turbo button and 64kb ram.

[Barry_Green]

well, if the comapny is listening I'd say implement Vegas style Audio featrures and I'd come on board.
I talked to them back at DV Expo and they know they need to improve their audio, and I sure got the impression that Edius will be far more competitive with the release of version 4, which'll probably come out around NAB time...

[Barry_Green]

PC XT 33mhz with Turbo button and 64kb ram.
The TURBO button! Man, I haven't thought of that in about 20 years! :thumbsup:

[JWinter]

i like to track info about the app...looks pretty decent

[icicle22]

PC XT 33mhz with Turbo button and 64kb ram.

LMAO!

ok.....seriously. Can you give us an idea how powerful your workstation is? I am glad to here it runs smooth but I need to get a frame of reference to my lowly machine. P4 3ghz 2g ram. Plus the turbo button.

[icicle22]

I talked to them back at DV Expo and they know they need to improve their audio, and I sure got the impression that Edius will be far more competitive with the release of version 4, which'll probably come out around NAB time...

Has anyone heard the upgrade path for Edius 4? I hate to fork out the cash for edius 3.6 + broadcast and then have to pay an erormous upgrade price too. MOst companies offer a free upgrade if you buy the previous product within the last 30-60-90 days...whatever. I'd like to see what that path will be...and particularly if it is littered with green.

:)

[angelo913]

Has anyone heard the upgrade path for Edius 4? I hate to fork out the cash for edius 3.6 + broadcast and then have to pay an erormous upgrade price too. MOst companies offer a free upgrade if you buy the previous product within the last 30-60-90 days...whatever. I'd like to see what that path will be...and particularly if it is littered with green.

:)

Edius 4 should be out by the end of this month. For direct answers call Canopus Sales about it.

...Angelo

[lpcvideo1]

I got the free demo downloaded and running great on my Commodore 64. You have to swap out alot of floppies, though.

[mule ferguson]

Yes !
Mule

[mule ferguson]

Why didn't I thank of that.. Gonna try it on my old Ameiga 2000 w/ the Toaster.
HeHaw
Mule

[spunknoid]

I got the free demo downloaded and running great on my Commodore 64. You have to swap out alot of floppies, though.


Gotta love high tech, cutting edge power users.

Lead the way Lpc and Mule!

I love this new forum already.

[SalaTar]

Ameiga 2000 w/ the Toaster

Dosnt "Ameiga Rule"?

[mule ferguson]

http://www.old-computers.com/MUSEUM/computer.asp?c=63
All you young whippersnappers that dont remember the very first true video computer check this out.
Gotta get out my old Vic 20. the Commodore that started it all.

Cecil B DeMule

[mule ferguson]

http://oldcomputers.net/vic20.html

More info on the Vic 20

[SalaTar]

I remember doing Basic on my old trs 80 and was thrilled to get a TRS 100

[spunknoid]

I remember getting a 5 mg $1500 Ibm hard drive and wondering how I would ever fill it up.

[lpcvideo1]

I actually had a vic20! Wow. Yup, those were the days. "Poking" and "peeking" all over the place. (Before that, I had to run canopus myself on a large yellow legal pad.)

Well, anyway, back to the thread. Barry, I'm all for a canopus forum. I'm about ready to order a new PC for the puppy--I can't even get the demo to run on my desktop.


ADDITION: I also had one of the original Amigas--before the 2000. They were multi-tasking in a windowing environment long before IBM or Apple.

[JWinter]

Canopus....please implement folder tracks, inter-session track and data exchange, ASIO, VST , DX


also, does Boris Red work in Pro? (better than in Vegas haa haa)

[bhiga]

Those questions are best posted on the Canopus forum (and sent to Canopus via email).

Some (not all, depends on the nature) VST plug-ins are supported. Boris Red has a plug-in for EDIUS.

[JWinter]

VST...very cool Thanks....cant find it at the 799 or lower price....need to find best price on 2 4 gig P2 cards + canopus....should have a bundle deal

[Norval]

http://compuadds.com/Product.asp?prodcode=D%2D77010184100


I got it here for $735.65