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wcs
03-02-2006, 09:41 PM
... I'll open by saying that I understand and respect the fact that jarred is the rulemaker, and I think he does a smashing job with the contests. I'd just like to put in a comment on the return to five minutes.

There is the idea that no matter the time limit, there will never be enough time... I partially agree, but I think that the balance between 'too much breathing room' and 'rushed/hurried' is not struck at 5 minutes.

I was watching Eros last night, a collection of 40 minute short films... and I just felt pain at how I could really only shoot one scene of this kind of movie in the allotted time for herofest; I could either shoot the introduction scene, or the final scene.

This is not a complaint. Since the rules are not cemented in typeset yet (as far as I've seen), I thought there might be a small possibility that you'd accept a request for more runtime.

I understand that part of the challenge is telling a story in a limited time frame, but I would like to propose that perhaps five minutes is too short to add any real level of complexity. This is not an insult to the filmmakers, only perhaps a comment on my own perceived limitations, but I feel to meet five minutes we must sacrifice either character, plot, or coherance... or we have to put in a voice-over.

It's telling that almost all of the top 10 for scifest had voice-overs. And I'm not saying that it's about the limitations of the creators. I think they realized at some point (consciously or otherwise) that the technique was almost a necessity to tell their story in six minutes. And it's not that I think voice-overs are necessarily bad. I just don't like it when they become the only answer.

And, I know that I can just not-enter, but I've found this community and this contest to be a great place to sandbox my filmmaking skills. After two contests of reading "too rushed" as comments, I thought it might be possible to take this one in a new direction. I'm not asked for forty minutes, but I'd like a minute or two more than five.

Again, this is just a friendly suggestion; there's no anger or deep frustration behind it.

Kholi
03-02-2006, 09:47 PM
I understand you, completely. I have a real issue with trying to squeeze a good story into five minutes.

We all know it can be done, and well... really? It's just a challenge for you and the rest of us to overcome.

I think five minutes is long enough, and actually, it's a good thing:

Some people won't have enough good and interesting content to stuff into more than five minutes, believe it or not. The five minute time frame forces them to cut it down to the meat and tell the real story, i.e all killer, no filler.

Along with that, we won't have to sit through a not-so-good short movie for ten minutes or so, just so we can give a positive line of feedback and critiquing, right??

Voice-overs are almost a cop-out in short films... I say almost because sometimes they work, and work very well. Similo (Sorry to reference this) was a great example of how a voice-over works. He didn't even need it, as far as I've heard/read from those whom watched it sans sound. I'm going to frown if there are an abundance of voice-overs this competition... Sci-fest was really overdone. That's just my opinion.

It's all up to the writing. Get a tight, plausible script going, slice it down where it needs to be sliced and kill the viewer with it.

You can do it... now I just hope I can. =P

Beat Takeshi
03-02-2006, 09:57 PM
Just think of how good your 20 minute short will be after mastering this contest.

Kholi
03-02-2006, 09:58 PM
Just think of how good your 20 minute short will be after mastering this contest.

Yeah, really though. Walk, Crawl, Run. I'm excited... I just hope I can even enter LOL. I keep saying that.

Blaine
03-02-2006, 10:02 PM
Take a look at this short. It is 6:12 when the credits start to roll. No VO. It can be done.

http://www.theforce.net/fanfilms/nonsw/batman_deadend/index.asp

Challenge yourself.:)

wcs
03-02-2006, 10:07 PM
Sci-fest was really overdone. That's just my opinion.

It's about the universe. In zombiefest we didn't have to set up the universe, or the rules. We didn't have to say "they are the undead" "cut off their heads and they die". In sci-fest, the first frame of our film was the first frame of existence. To tell a story we had to introduce the world/rules/reality, introduce the characters' relationship to the universe, and then tell a story. The first part almost certainly requires time or voice-over as can be seen in sci-fest.

I understand that voice-overs can be done poorly, and that a lot of skill goes in their production. One the most beloved films of all time used an overt narrator (shawshank). I'm saying the rules almost make it a necessity.


It's all up to the writing. Get a tight, plausible script going, slice it down where it needs to be sliced and kill the viewer with it.

I agree with the theory. My proposition is that I think the theory doesn't apply until a critical runtime is reached, or a voice-over is used.

suck will suck no matter the length, but I'd be willing to sit through another minute of many bad films if one or two films went from 'incoherant' to 'powerful'.

wcs
03-02-2006, 10:10 PM
Take a look at this short. It is 6:12 when the credits start to roll. No VO. It can be done.

universe previously defined.... check
characters previously defined.... check
relationships previously defined.... check

plot... six minutes, here we come.

wcs
03-02-2006, 10:14 PM
I'm also saying this:

I'd like to see the seven minute edit of several of the films in the scifest contest, and I think people would agree (I'm not going to name any films for either side of the coin).

Brandon Rice
03-02-2006, 10:15 PM
I'm also saying this:

I'd like to see the seven minute edit of several of the films in the scifest contest, and I think people would agree (I'm not going to name any films for either side of the coin).

Well, I've posted my 11 min version online :) Maybe that would suffice?

Blaine
03-02-2006, 10:16 PM
universe previously defined.... check
characters previously defined.... check
relationships previously defined.... check

plot... six minutes, here we come.
I'm picking up a lot of negativity here. Why it can't be done. If you think it can't be done, it won't. :beer:

wcs
03-02-2006, 10:17 PM
Well, I've posted my 11 min version online Maybe that would suffice?

Ok... 11 minutes.... maybe not 11 minutes for all films.... darn you...:)

Brandon Rice
03-02-2006, 10:17 PM
I'm picking up a lot of negativity here. Why it can't be done. If you think it can't be done, it won't. :beer:

So true. You have to make it work. Somehow, some way. Write a simpler story so you don't have to establish as much.

Brandon Rice
03-02-2006, 10:18 PM
Ok... 11 minutes.... maybe not 11 minutes for all films.... darn you...:)

Hey, that is my original cut. What can I say. My script was 11 pages long too. I was a fool to think I could make it work in 6 min. I tried, but it's much better with the full cut.

wcs
03-02-2006, 10:21 PM
I'm picking up a lot of negativity here. If you think it can't be done, it won't.

Well, yes, I'm saying I have a slightly negative feeling towards one of the rules, so I guess you'd get that vibe...

I agree that noone who has won a competition by sitting around complaining "how unfair the rules are", or "if only this would be perfect, I'd enter to competition"

I'm saying that there are some barriers placed too high for most men to cross. It's not pessimism I'm proposing, it's reasoning based on facts (which people may disagree about).

Kholi
03-02-2006, 10:22 PM
It's about the universe. In zombiefest we didn't have to set up the universe, or the rules. We didn't have to say "they are the undead" "cut off their heads and they die". In sci-fest, the first frame of our film was the first frame of existence. To tell a story we had to introduce the world/rules/reality, introduce the characters' relationship to the universe, and then tell a story. The first part almost certainly requires time or voice-over as can be seen in sci-fest.

I understand that voice-overs can be done poorly, and that a lot of skill goes in their production. One the most beloved films of all time used an overt narrator (shawshank). I'm saying the rules almost make it a necessity.



I agree with the theory. My proposition is that I think the theory doesn't apply until a critical runtime is reached, or a voice-over is used.

suck will suck no matter the length, but I'd be willing to sit through another minute of many bad films if one or two films went from 'incoherant' to 'powerful'.

As a writer, I kind of have to disagree with this. I didn't go to school or anything (Though it seems like fun), but I've never seen the reason to have to link a world by voice-over.

The basic idea is that it's YOUR world. If your character belongs there, he or she will be there no matter what the audience understands. This is why you put more time into writing backstory and realizing who your character is and what she or he has set out to accomplish.

Trust me, it can be done without the use of voice-overs. And then again, if a voice-over works, more power to the short.

You can do it, mang. We all can if we really want to. Embrace the challenge and step beyond it. No, I'm not a hippie, either.

wcs
03-02-2006, 10:24 PM
Write a simpler story so you don't have to establish as much.

I agree. I could tell a simple story in five minutes.... I'm saying I want to tell one with depth and complexity in seven.

Kholi
03-02-2006, 10:25 PM
I agree that noone who has won a competition by sitting around complaining "how unfair the rules are", or "if only this would be perfect, I'd enter to competition"


You can refer to that as "weeding out the best of the best."

Only the fittest, man. A contest is just that, a contest. While it's friendly and rewarding competition, you should have your sights set on the prize... or you're already failing.

That's just me, though. If I'm not going for the top, I'm not even going to try. And I'm going for the top if I enter this contest. =)

Make it work, WCS. Looks like you have a combative nature-- turn that toward your script and make it happen.

Blaine
03-02-2006, 10:28 PM
No, I'm not a hippie, either.
LMAO :grin: :grin: That's just what I needed tonight. A little levity. Sometime we're going to have to talk screenwriting. That's my favorite part of the whole process. To me, that is where the real "creation" is.

wcs
03-02-2006, 10:29 PM
Embrace the challenge and step beyond it.

I've stepped beyond it twice, and come to the conclusions I've stated in the first post.

Please, I hope nobody is interpreting my responses as snobby or mean. This is just my debate face I'm showing. I know this proposal will be met with reasonable disagreement, so I'm trying to focus the debate. I apologize if I seem abrupt. This is just a friendly debate I'm trying to stir up.

Kholi
03-02-2006, 10:30 PM
LMAO :grin: :grin: That's just what I needed tonight. A little levity. Sometime we're going to have to talk screenwriting. That's my favorite part of the whole process. To me, that is where the real "creation" is.

=P That's why I'm a writer. It's my world, I just let the director show it to everyone.

Feel free to PM me anytime, but more-so after this contest. That way I can let my work speak for itself. LoL. Only one person on these boards has every read anything I've written... not because I don't want my ideas stolen, just that I want to put my best foot forward in front of any and everyone. I guess I'm silly for that.

I hope to see a lot of well written pieces coming out of this contest, especially with the due date so far away. People are already done writing and it blows me away... maybe I'm just slow?

Blaine
03-02-2006, 10:31 PM
I've stepped beyond it twice, and come to the conclusions I've stated in the first post.

Please, I hope nobody is interpreting my responses as snobby or mean. This is just my debate face I'm showing. I know this proposal will be met with reasonable disagreement, so I'm trying to focus the debate. I apologize if I seem abrupt. This is just a friendly debate I'm trying to stir up.
Whoa, that was Kholi's quote, not mine. :thumbsup:

Kholi
03-02-2006, 10:33 PM
I've stepped beyond it twice, and come to the conclusions I've stated in the first post.

Please, I hope nobody is interpreting my responses as snobby or mean. This is just my debate face I'm showing. I know this proposal will be met with reasonable disagreement, so I'm trying to focus the debate. I apologize if I seem abrupt. This is just a friendly debate I'm trying to stir up.

I know what you're getting at. I don't take it as anything other than debate... and I'm debating with you and trying to pose some insight at the same time.

I think you should embrace the time limit. It gives you the upper-hand on everyone else that can't produce good work in an alotted amount of time. Just think what the people in twenty-four hour contests go through? There's no debating, no questioning, just hardcore filmmaking.

With this theme?? Really, five minutes is plenty of time to introduce a memorable character, conflict, and image.

Kholi
03-02-2006, 10:34 PM
Whoa, that was Kholi's quote, not mine. :thumbsup:

Yeah, that was my quote. LoL. It wasn't meant as an attack, either. It was more like encouragement.

wcs
03-02-2006, 10:37 PM
Sometime we're going to have to talk screenwriting. That's my favorite part of the whole process. To me, that is where the real "creation" is.

The beauty is in the writing, for me. The rest is not-screwing-it-up. But, again, I'm not a strong visual artist, or a strong director. I'm just not totally imcompetent with those two things, and I don't really trust anyone else to understand my screenplays before they're put up on the screen.

wcs
03-02-2006, 10:39 PM
Really sorry about the misquote, guys. I guess I was just going a little too fast.

Kholi
03-02-2006, 10:40 PM
The beauty is in the writing, for me. The rest is not-screwing-it-up. But, again, I'm not a strong visual artist, or a strong director. I'm just not totally imcompetent with those two things, and I don't really trust anyone else to understand my screenplays before they're put up on the screen.

Oh, man. I sympathize with you on that, seriously.

It's hard to convey, through words, what you're planning or plotting for a movie. That's part of the reason I never tell anyone about what I'm doing, if not the largest reason.

I'd rather show than tell, y'know?

I think you're going to do fine with the vast amount of time we're given on this competition.

Blaine
03-02-2006, 10:46 PM
Really sorry about the misquote, guys. I guess I was just going a little too fast.
Not a problem with me as long as everyone's civil. And that's not been a problem here.


The beauty is in the writing, for me. The rest is not-screwing-it-up. But, again, I'm not a strong visual artist, or a strong director. I'm just not totally imcompetent with those two things, and I don't really trust anyone else to understand my screenplays before they're put up on the screen.
I've taken my shot at novels a couple of times but I LOVE screenwriting because it IS so visual. I love the constraints of 90-115 pages to tell a story. And to tell it in pictures. If you've ever read Thomas Harris, he writes in an extremely visual style that makes his works transfer easily from print to film.

wcs
03-02-2006, 10:46 PM
I think you're going to do fine with the vast amount of time we're given on this competition.

I've already got my script outlined in my head, with the arc and the important scenes storyboarded (in my head, again).

I've learned so much through the two other competitions I've been in. It's about using what you have, and working around the rest. Modular scripts, getting one good actor for five minutes rather than two for a week, etc.

I'm going to enter my movie, and it'll be under the alloted time. I just want my characters to be able draw a few more breaths before they die when the lights go up.

Blaine
03-02-2006, 10:48 PM
I've already got my script outlined in my head, with the arc and the important scenes storyboarded (in my head, again).

I've learned so much through the two other competitions I've been in. It's about using what you have, and working around the rest. Modular scripts, getting one good actor for five minutes rather than two for a week, etc.

I'm going to enter my movie, and it'll be under the alloted time. I just want my characters to be able draw a few more breaths before they die when the lights go up.
I have a feeling you're going to do fine. :thumbsup:

Kholi
03-02-2006, 10:49 PM
Not a problem with me as long as everyone's civil. And that's not been a problem here.


I've taken my shot at novels a couple of times but I LOVE screenwriting because it IS so visual. I love the constraints of 90-115 pages to tell a story. And to tell it in pictures. If you've ever read Thomas Harris, he writes in an extremely visual style that makes his works transfer easily from print to film.

Not that I like to reference them too much, but the Waichowski brothers (Spelling?) write prose VERY well. I almost died reading The Matrix script. Whoo boy, it's awesome.

"The pistol spitting bullets"

So industry standard, now-a-days.

wcs
03-02-2006, 10:56 PM
I have a feeling you're going to do fine.

Thanks for the sentiment.

I'll just say, I know myself well. I know my limitations. I'm not saying my five minute movie will suck. I'm saying it won't be nearly as good as my seven minute movie.

And I'm saying, based upon the evidence I presented in the beginning, that it isn't just me.

wcs
03-02-2006, 10:58 PM
I'm saying I'll watch an hour of Uwe Boll if I can see seven minutes of kenneth branaugh reading the phone book.

I'm not afraid of the suck.

Blaine
03-02-2006, 10:59 PM
I'm saying I'll watch an hour of Uwe Boll if I can see seven minutes of kenneth branaugh reading the phone book.

I'm not afraid of the suck.
My second great laugh of the night...thanx. :grin: :grin: :grin:

Brandon Rice
03-02-2006, 11:01 PM
Hey... this thread has just been a lot of... going round and round the same point IMO. What's the point?

Blaine
03-02-2006, 11:04 PM
Hey... this thread has just been a lot of... going round and round the same point IMO. What's the point?
Yeah? We're having fun, where have you been? :evil:

wcs
03-02-2006, 11:04 PM
I'll reitterate my points, for those who will join us at the non-insane hours of the day:

for zombiefest 5 minutes was fine
for scifest, 6 minutes seemed to (statistically) force directors to use voice-overs if they wanted to tell a moving story.
I don't want to be forced to use a voice-over.
for herofest, we're back to 5 minutes.

I gave my attempt at explaining this phenomenom on the first page.

I'd like to disassociate this argument from being about me, and I'll ask that it be about my presentation of the facts.

I'd like a little more time. This is my proposal to the higher-ups (jarred, etc)

Brandon Rice
03-02-2006, 11:04 PM
Yeah? We're having fun, where have you been? :evil:

Sorry... had to leave for about 30 min. You guys havin' a party without me?! :crybaby:

Blaine
03-02-2006, 11:06 PM
Sorry... had to leave for about 30 min. You guys havin' a party without me?! :crybaby:
Don't go to bed now, you'll miss something...:evil:

Brandon Rice
03-02-2006, 11:07 PM
I'll reitterate my points, for those who will join us at the non-insane hours of the day:

for zombiefest 5 minutes was fine
for scifest, 6 minutes seemed to (statistically) force directors to use voice-overs if they wanted to tell a moving story.
I don't want to be forced to use a voice-over.
for herofest, we're back to 5 minutes.

I gave my attempt at explaining this phenomenom on the first page.

I'd like to disassociate this argument from being about me, and I'll ask that it be about my presentation of the facts.

I'd like a little more time. This is my proposal to the higher-ups (jarred, etc)

Well... I think it forces all of us to be a bit more creative with our storytelling. It stretches us (in a great way!). I for one know I'll be having some voiceover in the beginning to set things up. I didn't have any VO in my sci-fest entry, so I think I'm gunna try a different way of telling a story with this fest :) Try new things. Take risks, have fun, and try to tell a great fun entertaining story in the allotted time of 5 min :)

wcs
03-02-2006, 11:11 PM
Take risks, have fun, and try to tell a great fun entertaining story in the allotted time of 5 min

You're statements could all apply to 'seven minutes', also, do you agree? It's certainly not a long time.

But, in the morning, jarred could wake up and go

"What is all this racket. Five minutes was official. Sorry man."

This is not under the assumption that the rules are finalized.

wcs
03-02-2006, 11:15 PM
I must apologize, but I'm going to get ready for bed now. I don't want it to seem like I'm abandoning the ruckus. I'm just gonna let it rest overnight.

Blaine
03-02-2006, 11:16 PM
It's been fun. Later.

Brandon Rice
03-02-2006, 11:16 PM
You're statements could all apply to 'seven minutes', also, do you agree? It's certainly not a long time.

But, in the morning, jarred could wake up and go

"What is all this racket. Five minutes was official. Sorry man."

This is not under the assumption that the rules are finalized.

Sure but... if the rule stands at 5... then go be creative with that! :) I think a great story can be told in a minute, or two, or 90... it is all about writing something creatively, and telling a story that has a beginning, middle, and end. I am not arguing that 7 min. would be nice :) I'll take all the time I can get. But, I say it's 5 now... so don't sit around wishing it could be seven, but go write something and shoot something that tells a entertaining story in 5 minutes. (I don't want this to come off as harsh at all, and I hope I am not missing the point)

Blaine
03-02-2006, 11:20 PM
Brandon,
Everytime I see your avatar, I keep expecting Ben Affleck to come creeping around the corner. :shocked:

Brandon Rice
03-02-2006, 11:22 PM
Brandon,
Everytime I see your avatar, I keep expecting Ben Affleck to come creeping around the corner. :shocked:

LOL!

wcs
03-02-2006, 11:26 PM
But, I say it's 5 now... so don't sit around wishing it could be seven

I think this is where people misinterpret my initial post. I'm not wishing it could be seven, I'm making an argument why it should be.

There's a thin difference, but it is in my assumption that the rules are not cemented, and that jarred will accept reason from a relative newbie like myself. The moment the rules are officially stated, debating them becomes useless, I agree, and I will be fine if this thread is locked and forgotten.

Sorry, said I was going to sleep, but I popped in for a final check.

You weren't harsh at all. You were concise, and clear. I agree with everything you said, the moment the rules become final.

Brandon Rice
03-02-2006, 11:33 PM
I think this is where people misinterpret my initial post. I'm not wishing it could be seven, I'm making an argument why it should be.

There's a thin difference, but it is in my assumption that the rules are not cemented, and that jarred will accept reason from a relative newbie like myself. The moment the rules are officially stated, debating them becomes useless, I agree, and I will be fine if this thread is locked and forgotten.

Sorry, said I was going to sleep, but I popped in for a final check.

You weren't harsh at all. You were concise, and clear. I agree with everything you said, the moment the rules become final.

Sounds good. Thanks for being very congenial with this conversation, and we'll know more about the rules soon I am sure.

Jared Meyer
03-02-2006, 11:45 PM
wcs makes a lot of sense to me on this one - I agree with his viewpoint.
It goes without saying that this ain't a democracy and Jarred is the boss, but five minutes does seem a little short to develop a superhero piece, what with all of the necessary conventions of the genre, i.e., unique superhero with backstory including origin and explanation of powers, introduction of nemesis as well as climactic battle and/or possible sidekicks and love interests. :) (Of course I know that this will not all fit into five minutes, so I'm kind of joking.)

Obviously a really well developed superhero movie won't really fit into 7 minutes either, more like 90...BUT, if this WERE a democracy :) I would still be with wcs in voting for an increase to 7.

This is all just rambling conjecture.

I'm going to bed.

Brandon Rice
03-02-2006, 11:47 PM
but five minutes does seem a little short to develop a superhero piece, what with all of the necessary conventions of the genre, i.e., unique superhero with backstory including origin and explanation of powers, introduction of nemesis as well as climactic battle and/or possible sidekicks and love interests. :) Of course I know that this will not all fit into five minutes, so I'm kind of joking.


I must disagree... I think it gives ample time to set up the story my friend. Be creative, find ways to give a lot of info with a very short bit of time. It's the challenge I love!

EditPhish
03-02-2006, 11:51 PM
Hi wcs :happy:

I agree with you, but I also see how it's challenging it to limit the timeframe. If you gave me voting power, I'd vote for 6 or 7 minutes for just a bit of breathing room (and six minutes wasn't easy!) -- I'm not a huge fan of being told stories by voice-over, and I'd love to see everyone have the breathing room to avoid it as much as possible -- I know WE have no plans on using voice-over.

We working with the 5 minute time-frame right now in our planning and think our concept will fit... how well a job we do and whether we get the ideas across to everyone else, that remains to be seen :laugh: -- and I'd certainly argue on your side for another minute or two -- Maybe Jarred will consider it :happy:

Jared Meyer
03-02-2006, 11:55 PM
It's the challenge I love!

Challenges are good, no doubt.

But for a genre with, as I stated, numerous relatively specific conventions, I think we'd be seeing a higher percentage of good entries from a story standpoint if there were a slightly longer time limit.

Brandon Rice
03-02-2006, 11:56 PM
Challenges are good, no doubt.

But for a genre with, as I stated, numerous relatively specific conventions, I think we'd be seeing a higher percentage of good entries from a story standpoint if there were a slightly longer time limit.

Fair enough :) I am sure Jarred will take what's being said into consideration... that having been said... he may still choose the 5 min. limit. We shall see.

Jared Meyer
03-03-2006, 12:00 AM
Either way, I think it will be an awesome fest. :)

Brandon Rice
03-03-2006, 12:02 AM
Either way, I think it will be an awesome fest. :)

Indeed. Indeed!

Jared Meyer
03-03-2006, 12:04 AM
Briceman-this is a complete non sequitur, but how do you include part of someone's post as a quote so that it says "originally posted by _____"

I'm picking on you because you're obviously reading this right now. :)

Brandon Rice
03-03-2006, 12:05 AM
Briceman-this is a complete non sequitur, but how do you include part of someone's post as a quote so that it says "originally posted by _____"

I'm picking on you because you're obviously reading this right now. :)

You should see a small "quote button" under someones original post... to the right hand corner.

Brandon Rice
03-03-2006, 12:06 AM
Oh... I read everything :) ;)

Jared Meyer
03-03-2006, 12:06 AM
Aww geez. I figured it was staring me in the face. Thanks.

Brandon Rice
03-03-2006, 12:07 AM
Aww geez. I figured it was staring me in the face. Thanks.

No problem, any time. :)

WilderWorks
03-03-2006, 12:42 AM
In college, I took a course called "Pre-producing the Short Film." It was an entire semester dedicated to taking a script from one sentence log-line to animated story reel, with audio. And that script had to be three minutes long. Three pages. With a beginning, middle, and end. With characters and premise and all. We saw many short films that worked in that time, and it was an amazing learning experience. I love that these contests demand the same. If you can make something work in three pages, of five minutes, you're ready to add another five pages...

If you want an example, look at the "Donut Shop" scene in Boogie Nights. We see she's a pregnant white woman, he's a black man. His car is a wreck, and we know everyting from that first shot when they drive up. When they drive away again, five minutes later, everything has changed... You have a short film, and an amazing scene.

EJ Pennypacker
03-03-2006, 02:28 AM
6 mins was nice.

Now have 5mins.

It's a challenege.

And it can be done.

EJ

wcs
03-03-2006, 02:50 AM
I'd just like to note that, while both have elements of truth, neither wilderworks or ej pennypacker addressed the nuance of my argument.. they presented broad strokes which I would generally agree with.

and (as a side parallel note) they were both writing a short message about a simple idea....

it's possible to make a 5 minute short film that makes sense (something I do not deny)... now, what about the rest of my argument.

"make a superhero film in thirty seconds"... also technically 'possible', satisfying their test, but not mine.

Jarred Land
03-03-2006, 08:25 AM
let me just chime in.

The purpose of DVXfest is not to make a 30 minute marketable film.. the purpose of dvxfest is for people to sharpen their skills and improve after each film.

5 minutes should not be a problem.. if you think you cant do it because of a story issue, try and make a trailer instead of a short.. im sure if you made a 3 minute trailer that was very stylized it would do very well.

So sorry about the limit everyone.. but welcome to hollywood. At least im telling you to shave a minute off before you start, and not after your done :)

Brandon Rice
03-03-2006, 08:27 AM
let me just chime in.

The purpose of DVXfest is not to make a 30 minute marketable film.. the purpose of dvxfest is for people to sharpen their skills and improve after each film.

5 minutes should not be a problem.. if you think you cant do it because of a story issue, try and make a trailer instead of a short.. im sure if you made a 3 minute trailer that was very stylized it would do very well.

So sorry about the limit everyone.. but welcome to hollywood. At least im telling you to shave a minute off before you start, and not after your done :)

Thanks for the reply Jarred. And, I think I can speak for everyone who will be working on a short, when I say, we're excited to tackle a new challenge! :)

Gary the Llama
03-03-2006, 08:45 AM
While I would like to have an extra minute, I'm totally confident that it can be done in five minutes. I've come up with a pretty unique way to tell my character's backstory and set up the story for my Herofest entry... It will allow me to get the story up and running with 30 seconds and then get right into the action!

Brandon Rice
03-03-2006, 08:47 AM
While I would like to have an extra minute, I'm totally confident that it can be done in five minutes. I've come up with a pretty unique way to tell my character's backstory and set up the story for my Herofest entry... It will allow me to get the story up and running with 30 seconds and then get right into the action!

COOL! Looking forward to seeing your film! :)

Gary the Llama
03-03-2006, 08:56 AM
COOL! Looking forward to seeing your film! :)

Thanks! I'm incredibly excited but also very nervous. It will be my first film with the DVX so there's a bit of a learning curve. Not to mention, the whole idea is very ambitious.

But if I can pull it off... It'll be a very fun little film! (And it will destroy the competition.) :kali:

Brandon Rice
03-03-2006, 09:00 AM
Thanks! I'm incredibly excited but also very nervous. It will be my first film with the DVX so there's a bit of a learning curve. Not to mention, the whole idea is very ambitious.

But if I can pull it off... It'll be a very fun little film! (And it will destroy the competition.) :kali:

LOL! OK. There is a bit of a learning curve there. What is your experience with shooting stuff?

Grant
03-03-2006, 09:18 AM
awesome, my question was answered. we can do a movie "preview" or as a lot of places are calling the extended ones, a "Featurette" this should open it up as far as storylines etc.... so all yall stop your whining :)

Gary the Llama
03-03-2006, 09:24 AM
LOL! OK. There is a bit of a learning curve there. What is your experience with shooting stuff?

My last short was shot with the Panasonic GS400. Different beast, I know. Some of you may remember it... I posted the whole thing a few months back. It was called Twin Falls Road. (The one with the cop getting killed at the end.)

I'm hoping to find a DP that's familiar with the DVX in 24p. If all else fails, I'll do it myself. But I'm looking... So if there are any Phoenix DPs that use the DVX, send me a PM!

Kholi
03-03-2006, 09:27 AM
let me just chime in.

The purpose of DVXfest is not to make a 30 minute marketable film.. the purpose of dvxfest is for people to sharpen their skills and improve after each film.


So sorry about the limit everyone.. but welcome to hollywood.


That's pretty much it. Welcome to Hollywood. =DDDD

Hope everyone's doing great so far.

wcs
03-03-2006, 10:40 AM
Well.. there we go. Thanks for chiming in, jarred.

I guess in the end it's just about me attempting to make the competetion something it's not, according to your statement of purpose. Maybe one day you can expand these festivals to have multiple contests going on at once... one of which is perhaps longer-form (like, ten minutes or so)...

but for now... viva la cinco minutes!

Again, no biggie. I was just saying "I think we'd get more subtle entries" not "ack!! chaos and fire!! noone will enter and the forum will crash!!".

though... maybe next time I'll take the dramatic angle and see what happens :)

so, since the official word has been spoken, I'm done with this thread. thanks to everyone who commented.

Jared Meyer
03-03-2006, 10:45 AM
let me just chime in.

The purpose of DVXfest is not to make a 30 minute marketable film.. the purpose of dvxfest is for people to sharpen their skills and improve after each film.

5 minutes should not be a problem.. if you think you cant do it because of a story issue, try and make a trailer instead of a short.. im sure if you made a 3 minute trailer that was very stylized it would do very well.

So sorry about the limit everyone.. but welcome to hollywood. At least im telling you to shave a minute off before you start, and not after your done :)

Darn it Jarred, why couldn't you have left us hanging...When I thought there was even a .001% chance that you would raise the time limit I had an excuse to postpone working on my hero short. Now I HAVE to start my script. :)

But seriously, I think its awesome that you started a fest to help filmmakers improve.
The fact that there are almost no entry requirements as far as fees, fantastic prize incentives, a really cool system for getting audience feedback and a super quick turn around time between contests to help people stay off their butts....Its clear that you want to see the members here succeed.

Thanks, man.

lucidz
03-03-2006, 10:59 AM
haha lol no 6 minutes foryou!!!!!
:D

Beat Takeshi
03-03-2006, 01:12 PM
I think the problem is that you are focusing on creating a whole world and explaining every detail. Focus on a small segment in time from that world and only describe what is needed.

If you use up 2-3 minutes of your time with some big action scene you are going to run out of time for story. Everytime you write something down ask yourself if it moves the story ahead. If you hesitate in answering it, scrap it.

You can try breaking it down like this to help:
5 minutes
beginning-middle-end

beginning-2 details
Middle- 2 details
End -1 detail

beginning- detail one- hero and characters introduced-30 seconds
beginning- detail two - conflict arises- 30 seconds

middle- detail one- Hero seems defeated by conflict- 1 minute
middle -detail two- climax -Hero overcomes conflict, saves the day-1 minute 30 seconds

ending- detail- anti-climax- Hero gets the girl or boy sappy music. 1 minute 20 seconds

ending- cliffhanger- Hero finds out the villian escaped. 10 seconds

TADA!!!!

Larry Rutledge
03-03-2006, 01:14 PM
Good breakdown on the time Aram - that really helps me focus my thoughts on this. Thanks!!

Larry

Kholi
03-03-2006, 01:20 PM
I think the problem is that you are focusing on creating a whole world and explaining every detail. Focus on a small segment in time from that world and only describe what is needed.

If you use up 2-3 minutes of your time with some big action scene you are going to run out of time for story. Everytime you write something down ask yourself if it moves the story ahead. If you hesitate in answering it, scrap it.

You can try breaking it down like this to help:
5 minutes
beginning-middle-end

beginning-2 details
Middle- 2 details
End -1 detail

beginning- detail one- hero and characters introduced-30 seconds
beginning- detail two - conflict arises- 30 seconds

middle- detail one- Hero seems defeated by conflict- 1 minute
middle -detail two- climax -Hero overcomes conflict, saves the day-1 minute 30 seconds

ending- detail- anti-climax- Hero gets the girl or boy sappy music. 1 minute 20 seconds

ending- cliffhanger- Hero finds out the villian escaped. 10 seconds

TADA!!!!

Hey that's not a bad breakdown at all. I jotted it down in my notebook to see if it'll help me space out the goods better.

Great advice, Aram. You're giving lots of it this contest. .=P

Beat Takeshi
03-03-2006, 01:57 PM
I'm in the helping mood I guess. Last fest I was also swamped with getting our pilot done and all the things that go with it. I have time on my hands this time around for now. Im glad it has helped. Since I do all this corporate work and everything I do has to be under 3 minutes I developed a way to break down the time alotted to get the idea across. The hard part of the break down is knowing when enough is enough for each scene and moving on without overlapping and borrowing time from the next scene. You run out of time quick doing that.

pmark23
03-03-2006, 06:06 PM
Judging from most of the SciFest entries, six minutes was too long. Most of the films could have been cut down to three minutes because they contained pointless backstory that should have been left out. When I want to fast-forward through a six-minute movie, something is wrong!

Rather than do a traditional story, instead show only the climax and let the audiences perception of the genre and typecasting fill in the blanks.

A look from an actor tied with a camera move (a "motivated" camera move) can replace an entire page a dialogue.

snodart
03-04-2006, 02:35 AM
The 5 minute limit seems reasonable. It keeps the contest open to more people. Novice to expert and pro to hobbyists. It is a good balance of challenge for everybody. Some will have a hard time filling 5 minutes and others will have to find a way to cram something into 5 minutes.

Ralph Oshiro
03-06-2006, 04:59 AM
My first film assignment in film school was a 1-minute black and white 16mm film.

EJ Pennypacker
03-06-2006, 07:27 AM
IMHO, 5 mins is also the magic number for selling your shorts to distribution companies.

EJ

profnoxin
03-09-2006, 01:33 AM
I dig the challenge of trying to come up with an idea suited to this time limit. I've been working in features and episodic so much lately, that my mind is locked into either the 90 page script or the 22 page script. This has been a really great challenge, and both BrianV and I had a lot of fun coming up with our idea for this joint. Brilliant, mates.