View Full Version : 1080/24p or 720/24p-pn for film out, which do you think is best and why?
David_M_Payne
03-02-2006, 07:05 PM
1080/24p or 720/24p-pn for film out, which do you think is best and why?
I had planned to film my movie "Holy War" in 1080i/24p but now I'm having second thoughts after talking to the D.P. Matt Siegel, who gave the HVX200 presentation at UCSF Tuesday. He really liked the camera for 720/24p-pn and the film out he got from it. Though he did stress that was a personal preference based on a softer image and better color. He felt that 1080i was too sharp. He also pointed out that in 720 you can use the 24pn and get a lot more time on the P2 cards than with 1080i. I haven’t had much time to play with the different formats yet as I still need to learn more about the camera, and I had problems with one of my G4's, which ended up at the local Apple warranty station. So if any of you have already had the time to get some time in with the two different formats post your thoughts on the two. Thanks.
David
David, I saw a test done by a big production studio in HK, and what I saw (the eyeometer), is that the 720p signal captures much more color information than the 1080p signal. Resolution wise, 1080p wins. I prefer going for 720p I believe this is enough for both filmout, hd and excelent dvd.
oneinfiniteloop
03-03-2006, 07:16 AM
Plus, shooting with 720p in variable frame rates is probably one of the best features of the cam. You would be missing out if shot in 1080i.
David_M_Payne
03-03-2006, 10:19 PM
David, I saw a test done by a big production studio in HK, and what I saw (the eyeometer), is that the 720p signal captures much more color information than the 1080p signal. Resolution wise, 1080p wins. I prefer going for 720p I believe this is enough for both filmout, hd and excelent dvd.
Plus, shooting with 720p in variable frame rates is probably one of the best features of the cam. You would be missing out if shot in 1080i.
Good points, now if I can find a HVX200/Apple FCP book/DVD for dummies perhaps I can get this film out of my head and on to a DVD at least.
David
willcprutzman
03-03-2006, 11:05 PM
David, I saw a test done by a big production studio in HK, and what I saw (the eyeometer), is that the 720p signal captures much more color information than the 1080p signal.
I'm still waiting for my camera, so my understanding is based largely in my imagination. I'm interested though in the idea that the 720p signal would capture more color than the 1080p signal, because both signals are based on a 1080p/60fps sampling according to panasonic. If this is the case, how/why would the color info be better on 720p? (hope that didn't come off confrontational, just curious)
I've also wondered if originating the image in a 1080p/60fps is the reason people are not reporting major perceived differences between 1080p and 720p...
Based on what I read, 1080 is achieved by the HVX200 DSP (upsampling) since 1080 is not a native resolution. (So, 1080 don't use more ccd's data than 720)
And, I don't think, the HVX DSP with the real time recording constraint can be as efficient as software used by companies doing film out.
So, it's certainly better to give to these companies 720p. They'll do if necessary the upsampling themselves with better results than in-camera process.
Of course, I can be wrong.
KCFilms
03-06-2006, 12:23 PM
Based on what I read, 1080 is achieved by the HVX200 DSP (upsampling) since 1080 is not a native resolution. (So, 1080 don't use more ccd's data than 720)
Actually, the CCDs are scanned at 1080 and downsampled to 720, giving a loss in resolution.
Actually, the CCDs are scanned at 1080 and downsampled to 720, giving a loss in resolution.
Yes, but HVX chips are Native 920/ 540, which means it upsamples digitally with the dsp to 1080P, wich could prove less information to work for in 1080p vs 720p, and bla,bla,bla,bla,bla... That's why I stated the "Eyeometer". To me, the 720P footage (and to the rest of the people there, in fact), 720P seemed to give a better picture. And less noisy.
Illya Friedman
03-07-2006, 12:25 AM
That's great that you convinced Matt to shoot your project. He's very talented.
I.
Pascal_Parvex
03-07-2006, 01:23 AM
is that the 720p signal captures much more color information than the 1080p signal.
Why should 720 captuer more color? 1080p also takes much more storage space.
It has to do with the actual information captured by the native chips. Pixel Shift seems to not be able to transport the full 4:2:2 information to 1080p without loss. Since going from the 920/540 native resolution chips requires a lot less pixel shifting to 720p than to 1080p, than less color information is lost. So what you get is still 1080p in a 4:2:2 codec, but not enough information for it. It may very well be better still than HDV's native 4:2:0, though, but, frankly, from what I saw, not that perceivable.
Now 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0? That's a world of difference. And I SAW that on the 720p footage in the studio. EDIT- as a matter of fact, just see Barry's basketball footage and compare it to any unaltered HDV footage or even Barry's own Snooker footage. You'll see the difference