Potential client for first job, need help/advice

[Alex DePew]

So I got my camera about two weeks ago. And I have been shooting footage and writing but I am by no means extremely well versed with the camera. With that in mind....

I was in a pizzaria by my house that just opened up right next to a movie theater. I was talking to the owner who also owns several other pizzarias in Manhattan and Long Island. I chit chatted for a while and then it hit me to ask him if he needs to produce a commercial that I would be able to do that for him. He asked me for a business card. He said he needs one to show on the movie theater screen. I told him that I didn't have them on me (a lie, I obviously have no business cards!) that I would drop one off the next time I stopped by. So now I am trying to come up with a game plan of how to approach this. My questions are as follows..

1) What would be a fair price, should he hire me.

2) If he asks, should I tell him I am inexperienced or do like a resume and talk up what I have done. (Note: I am not going to lie to him and say I have done other ads)

3) Does the price generally include actors or voice over or other add ons? How does this work?

4) Can someone please, please, please design me a logo for a business card. I previously (in college) went by Kinofist Productions. I saw the AMAZING work being done for directinglegend. I will be extremely grateful.

5) The $100 question what the hell do I do now? What are the unkown things I have to do, look out for, say or not say? Contract? Permissions?

Thanks so much for any and all help. I am super excited. Even if this doesn't work out I am on my way. This will help me make the transition from a job I don't like to one I want to do badly.

[elvworks]

Dude, you certainly jump and ask questions later, but that's cool, you know what you want to do.

I think you got a bunch of stuff in your head and your all confused now (and excited). I suggest you sit down and make a plan. Start with...

1. What are you own ideas for a pizzeria commercial if he left it totally up to you?

2. Speak to your client and find out his specific needs. (very important) And also, since you took some time to brainstorm already, you won't go in there with nothing to offer.

3. Also, ask him what budget he had in mind and that would help you with how much you will charge. I would say, be honest with him, let him know you're just starting out but show him some footage so he knows you know what you're doing.

3. After all that, tell him you're going home and you'll return with a quote and how it will be taped. So then, after finding out what he wants, the budget, how much time and effort you want to involve in this, then you come to him with a offer.

But most importantly, start planning now. From conception to the end. Release forms, all that. Don't rush, you want to make this a worth while reel for yourself.

As far as prices, I can't help you with that because it's all relative and this is your first gig. You don't want to be greedy. Just think how many slices of pizza you'll get for free from now on if it all works out. haha

Proactive buddy, proactive.




All the best,
Rick

[Barry_Green]

You're not gonna like this answer, but: do it for free.

You need experience way more than you need the $300 or $400 this guy is probably thinking the commercial would cost.

If you do it for free, all your hassles go away -- you don't need contracts or resumes or business cards or any of that, you just need to do a great spot. Once you've done a great spot, you'll have a lot of experience and know what it takes to get a spot like that done. You'll also have a spot on your reel and a customer you can refer people to. If you do a halfway decent job he should sing your praises (just make sure he knows that you don't want anyone knowing you did it for free!)

A happy customer who's driving business your way, a completed resume, and the experience of having done it will be worth a lot more to you than a little money.

[Barry_S]

Only take the work if you think you can do a reasonable job. It's much better to turn it down if you're not ready. If you think you're up to it I think you should offer to shoot it for a rock bottom price, like $300, but say to the guy, "Hey I've shot other productions , but no commercials. I'll produce a finished product for you to look at. If if you want to use it, you pay the $300. If you don't like it, you don't pay me a dime." That way, if your work is sub-par, the client doesn't get burned and if he likes it he'll gladly pay the $300.

[elvworks]

Wow, both are pretty good advice,

[rook]

My .02

You may have landed a gig. Great, but remember that putting together a professional add is not easy. But then again, it's not rocket science either.

The most important thing you need to do is find out what exactly the pizza man needs. Then you can determine if you have the ability to deliver.

Once you know what the pizza man sees in his head for a spot you'll likely be put at ease because you'll know if you can make it happen or not.

If you can, then it's fee time.

As price goes, I'm sure he'll want a bottom line. Once you find out what he needs figure out the cost to do it. If you need, tell him you need a day or two to give him a quote. (If you've never put a budget together, you'll be surprised how even a small shoot can add up fast. Once your expenses are done then I agree with barry. YOU work for free, but he should pay the expenses.)

As far as having business cards and a logo....Dude, come on. What's the point? You use those to start the hustle. As far as this sounds you are past the business card part. Straight up, this guy needs some one who knows more about putting a commercial together than he does. That guy is you. That is what you are selling. All the business cards in the world won't help if you if you can't actually be that guy.

Keep your confidence up and make the project fun. Be straight forward, honest and do what you can to make it work.

And congratulations on the pull. Hustling is the hardest part. Now all you got to do is the fun part.

good luck.

-rook

[Alex DePew]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I agree with much of what was said. Should he hire me I will do it for a small fee ONLY if he is happy with the work. Probably $300. I will only have him pay for the expenses, as rook mentioned, if they add up. If they amount to half of the $300, I'll just cover them because it will build my resume and could drive business my way as Barry said.

Also, great idea elvworks, when I go back I will have some storybords or a short treatment to show him.

I do need the business card though. This is not a done deal. He sounded like he was interested but I'm not sure if he was just saying "Sure let me have your card" as a brush off or because he really wants me to do it for him. He seems interested but I could be wrong. Either way, since he asked for it I should get it to him. Also, it can't hurt. It would have been perfect had I already had them when he asked. So to all those reading I am open to any logos for Kinofist Productions.

I am confident I can do this well. But I do realize that I need to have an idea of how to do it, what he expects and how to make the two meet.

Thanks everyone for the great comments. I am still open to more.

[GenJerDan]

You're not gonna like this answer, but: do it for free.

Or for pizza. :)

Or...the first one is free. It's not a bad idea to change out the ads in the theaters every few months, if possible. They may be a captive audience, but you still have to captivate them. And chances are the audience will be made up of a lot of the same people over and over again, so... If you doa good job, you might be able to get into a "4 picture deal" or the like. ;)

[Alex DePew]

Or for pizza. :)

Or...the first one is free. It's not a bad idea to change out the ads in the theaters every few months, if possible. They may be a captive audience, but you still have to captivate them. And chances are the audience will be made up of a lot of the same people over and over again, so... If you doa good job, you might be able to get into a "4 picture deal" or the like. ;)

Thanks for that! That didn't occur to me! Probably because I hate being forced to watch those ads and I try to ignore them. Now I get to be the one forcing others to watch them!!! What a world, what a world!

I will definitely bring that up. That would be great if he agrees to it.

[Terry_Lasater]

My .02 from personal experience...

Basic recipe for most restaurant commercials: Food, Folks, & Fun.

Close Ups of food - backlit or side lit to show texture (3:1 key to fill ratio). instead of 'typical fill', highlight areas of food with small fresnels and/or small mirrors.

Close Ups of people - smiling, enjoying their food (having fun). use forced perspectives which keep frame clear of distracting objects/empty tables in background. get some attractive friends for extras, have the owner pay them in pizza, have them dress nice, place them in strategic areas within your frame.

Do not show wide shot of restaurant unless it is absolutely amazing.

Study your frame and plan out action in each scene before hitting the record button.

Good luck! :thumbsup:

[Greggl]

He said he needs one to show on the movie theater screen.

You've got some potentially expensive issues to work out before you start offering
to do free work.

-Does the theatre have digital projection?
-Do they switch between their 35mm platters and digital before each film?
-Are you going to need a 35mm filmout of your spot?
-Does the theatre even show local adverts before features? Can he afford to
get it shown?

[elvworks]

The part that I don't like about doing it for free (although you build your reel) is that you'll never learn the releases, contracts and all that. And you don't want to start a habit of shying away from the paperwork. Yes, you are starting out but start off right and charge something.

Hope this helps,

Rick

[Alex DePew]

The part that I don't like about doing it for free (although you build your reel) is that you'll never learn the releases, contracts and all that. And you don't want to start a habit of shying away from the paperwork. Yes, you are starting out but start off right and charge something.

Hope this helps,

Rick

I wil definitely have a contract, even if it is for free, so that I can use it for my reel. But I don't know everything that needs to be put into a contract yet. I will do my research soon. Right now I am working to try and get prepared for the offer. Do people have suggestions on what to include in the contract? I know a deadline, a specific amount, what that amount includes and does not include and whether or not I have the right to use it in my reel are among the articles in the contract but I am sure there are others.

And thanks for the heads up about the potentialy expensive costs Greggl. That didn't even occur to me. I will contact the theater before I even go to him so I have the information on hand.

Terry, thanks for the help. I wish I had more attractive friends!

What do people think about shooting it in 24p? All the tv spots I see that stand out as poor production value seem to be obviously video with not great lighting.

[elvworks]

Just a quick thought. Instead of trying to make the contract yourself. Search online or ask fellow filmmakers for a contract they have used in the past and just tweak it to your specific needs. No need to reinvent the wheel.

All the best,
Rick

[galt]

Do it with the money-back guarantee approach. I never do anything for free, but will shoulder all the risk. As far as business cards, it is not important. Just be up-front with him that you are brand-new, but stress if he is not happy he does not pay. Most reasonable clients will give you a chance, and you will not be able to fool him long anyway. Better he think you are new and honest than stupid or incompetent when the problems arise (and they will).

And even for a free job you need talent releases, music clearances, and a clearly spelled out rights of the client to exhibit, etc...