24p Advanced in After Effects 5.0. How?

[Daftman909]

Ok, two questions:

Simply put, I shot my footage in 24p Advanced and I will be adding effects in AE and I was wondering how do I go about this? How can go about this while editing it in the 24 frame format to which is was shot without making a mistake and messing up the footage with unnesscary interlace or fields when it comes to setting the composition or exporting or even accidently making it 29.97?

Also, I will be inserting 29.97 explosion footage in a composition and was wondering how I should go about this?

[surf]

well, make it with more than 1 compoitions.

[Daftman909]

I am extremely familiar with AE when I worked with interlaced 29.97 video but I am clueless when it comes to working with 24p Advanced.

[david_kuznicki]

I am extremely familiar with AE when I worked with interlaced 29.97 video but I am clueless when it comes to working with 24p Advanced.

AE will correctly interpret the footage if you tell it to. You should be fine from there.

My work flow is:
1) Set the Comp frame rate to 23.9xx (whatever's correct; I can't recall off-hand)
2) Import Footage
3) Interpret footage> Guess 24Pa pulldown.
4) Create effects
5) Export at 29.9xx
6) Import into editor of choice

David Kuznicki
Production Manager, WGTE-TV30

[Daftman909]

Would exporting at 29.97 make it into interlaced video or will it go back to 23.976 after I import it back into Premiere Pro 1.5? (I'm editing this movie on a 24p timeline). I'm trying to keep it at the accurate frame rate without motifying the video except for the added effects.

[david_kuznicki]

Would exporting at 29.97 make it into interlaced video or will it go back to 23.976 after I import it back into Premiere Pro 1.5? (I'm editing this movie on a 24p timeline). I'm trying to keep it at the accurate frame rate without motifying the video except for the added effects.

I'm not sure if it's going to be interlaced, but if you're working on a 24p timeline, it's not going to match.

Forgive me for not being familiar enough with Premiere... this is how I work with Vegas.

David Kuznicki
Production Manager, WGTE-TV30

[oneinfiniteloop]

OK, if you're editing in 24p (23.976, 23.98) then export it in that frame rate and set up your comp in AE to match. That simple. When you import the footage highlight it in the project window and hit Ctrl-F, and this will open the Interrupt Footage window. Make sure Seperate Fields is set to off, and you should have no problem.

You can put your 29.97 footage in the same comp as 24p, but it will cause the playback to be funny, from what I understand. Haven't tried it though.

[Daftman909]

So simply put:

Export video from Premiere Pro 1.5 at 23.976-> Import into AE 5.0-> Set Comp to 23.967->Separate Fields off.

Right?

[oneinfiniteloop]

Pretty much, unless someone has a better idea. That's exactly what I would do.

[Matt Grunau]

So simply put:

Export video from Premiere Pro 1.5 at 23.976-> Import into AE 5.0-> Set Comp to 23.967->Separate Fields off.

Right?


That's the way I would do it. But then again, premiere allows for a degree of compositing itself with "blending modes" that you could use, so if in doubt, create all your elements in AE and export them with an alpha channel if needed and use them in Premiere.

I would go with Daftman's route, as I am familiar boucning between apps.



EDIT: WHen you capture anything in Premiere 1.5 which is 24p OR 24pa, it interperates at capture as 23.97x and when you go to export, you will just have to find a place to save. no additional buttons to push. THen, AE recognizes it as 24p and you are good to go.

[Bionicpix]

So simply put:

Export video from Premiere Pro 1.5 at 23.976-> Import into AE 5.0-> Set Comp to 23.967->Separate Fields off.

Right?

Did this work? I haven't figured this out yet either. What about pulldown that's inserted in the 24p footage? I can't figure out how to work in AE and export back to a 24p timeline in Vegas. Vegas reads the "wrapped" 24p footage automatically and removes the pulldown (it's wrapped as a 29.97 file on capture, no?). If I export from AE at 23.97 the file plays all jittery on the timeline, I assume because Vegas is adding pulldown removal to a file that is now native 23.97. If I setup export to re-wrap the file as a 29.97 and reinsert pulldown, Vegas doesn't seem able to interpret it right and just sees it as a 29.97. Need some help on this one.

[Matt Grunau]

Did this work? I haven't figured this out yet either. What about pulldown that's inserted in the 24p footage? I can't figure out how to work in AE and export back to a 24p timeline in Vegas. Vegas reads the "wrapped" 24p footage automatically and removes the pulldown (it's wrapped as a 29.97 file on capture, no?). If I export from AE at 23.97 the file plays all jittery on the timeline, I assume because Vegas is adding pulldown removal to a file that is now native 23.97. If I setup export to re-wrap the file as a 29.97 and reinsert pulldown, Vegas doesn't seem able to interpret it right and just sees it as a 29.97. Need some help on this one.

Don't need to worry about pulldowns. If you had a project in Vegas set to 23.976 progressive, and you export as say Quicktime with Animation codec at that frame rate, your are good to go in AE. Do your tweaking in AE and bring back into Vegas. If you are getting jitters in the timeline, that is because the timeline is not set tp 23.97, but to 29.97. There should be no extra pulldown removal in vegas, because as you said, the file is now native 23.97.

Why are you trying to re-wrap the file as 29.97, when is is 24p? Export everything from vegas at 23.97, and leave any additional pulldown needs to your DVD authoring software.

THough this method can eat disk space quickly. how long is your piece?

[yia]

hi, guys
does motion2 has this effect (converting to 24p)

[Bionicpix]

Thanks for the help, Matt. Ok, I tried again last night. Here's what happens.
- Say I just take a captured 24p file, no editing yet.
- I import that to AE. It reads as a 29.97 interlaced cuz that's how DV is captured (but with pulldown inserted, i.e.wrapped). Correct? So I read that you must interpret the footage in AE. I click guess pulldown and it interprets the footage as 23.976.
- I drop it in a 23.976 comp. Add a filter, etc.
- Then I read somewhere, I need to re-insert the pulldown at render by selecting lower field, then the pulldown scheme. I do that and supposedly it re-wraps it with pulldown insertion.
- But Vegas doesn't read the new file like my captured 24p, it sees only the 29.97 wrapper. If I put it in the NTSC 24p timeline, it needs to render it to play. Then it seems ok (although a little softer), but should I have to render?

I also looked to see if I could export from Vegas at pure 23.976 and it only seems to have 24p options with pulldown insertion, so the earlier method you mentioned in this thread (export at pure 23.976 doesn't seem doable). Or am I really missing something here? ThnX!

[Matt Grunau]

Thanks for the help, Matt. Ok, I tried again last night. Here's what happens.
- Say I just take a captured 24p file, no editing yet.
- I import that to AE. It reads as a 29.97 interlaced cuz that's how DV is captured (but with pulldown inserted, i.e.wrapped). Correct? So I read that you must interpret the footage in AE. I click guess pulldown and it interprets the footage as 23.976.
- I drop it in a 23.976 comp. Add a filter, etc.
- Then I read somewhere, I need to re-insert the pulldown at render by selecting lower field, then the pulldown scheme. I do that and supposedly it re-wraps it with pulldown insertion.
- But Vegas doesn't read the new file like my captured 24p, it sees only the 29.97 wrapper. If I put it in the NTSC 24p timeline, it needs to render it to play. Then it seems ok (although a little softer), but should I have to render?

I also looked to see if I could export from Vegas at pure 23.976 and it only seems to have 24p options with pulldown insertion, so the earlier method you mentioned in this thread (export at pure 23.976 doesn't seem doable). Or am I really missing something here? ThnX!


I AE, if you apply the pulldown you will be working in 23.976. Then simply render at the same frame rate. You do NOT need to re-insert the pull down at render time. And in fact, you shouldn't. I know now what you are doing wrong, I think. YOu are most probably putting the DV codec on it at output. That would cause both Vegas and AE to insert a pulldown. Don't use the DV codec. That is not only stomping any work you do in AE back to 4.1.1 color sampling (which isn't good) but it is also going to begin to show DV artifacts which appear even in the second generation DV encoding (even worse).

Dont use the DV codec. Use Quicktime Animation codec. And when you are interpereting footage in AE, it should not be interlaced. Progressive and no fields. Same is true in Vegas. If you have an issue with drive space, try using something like DivX or Quicktime's h.264 and output as 23.976 progressive. When opening in Vegas, right click on the the file in the timeline and go to Properties. Make sure it is being interpreted by Vegas correctly. 23.976, progressive, pixel aspect ratio .9.

You should be fine if you do that.

Just avoid the DV codec like the plague. Once you capture it, never go back to it. Even if you need to output from Vegas to go to Encore or DV architect, output from Vegas as an mpg2 at 23.97 and you are golden.

For your workflow, try this:

1. Set up A new Vegas project as 23.97 progressive.
2. Bring in your new footage
3. Edit what you want
4. Export as Quicktime with Animation codec as 23.97 progressive
5. import into AE
6. Tweak the hell out of it, add your elements, do what you need AE to do.
7. Output from AE as Quicktime with Animation codec 23.97. By default, it AE outputs progressive and with no sound. That's handy in this case.
8. Open up Vegas again and bring in the new Quicktime file.
9. Right click and make sure Vegas is interpreting it correctly: 23.976 progressive, .9 aspect ratio
10. Yer done.



EDIT: I just read your post again, and the "inserting a 2-3 pulldown with no options" is a good giveaway that Vega is indeed wanting to apply the DV codec. I think that's the big problem you are having.

[Bionicpix]

Yup, that's it Matt. Thanks much! I needed to get out of the DV codec. Once I exported as 23.976 Quicktime, AE took it perfect and Vegas accepted it back in (although for whatever reason it didn't seem to read the pixel size right, but easily switched in properties). And yes, NO perceivable quality loss.

Really appreciate the help. Once again validates this forum as one of the best and why I try to give back whenever I can as well. Cheers!

[Matt Grunau]

Excellent. Glad to help. Good luck on your project.

[yia]

hi.....here is a stupid qustion......what is advance pulldown in AF and how is different from advance pulldown during capturing

thanks ...I just need to know for future ref