bc5431- "HIDDEN"

[bc5431]

Hey everyone, so this was my first attempt at directing, so any advice or criticisms or general what-not that people could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
--Ben

[Brandon Rice]

Hey, interesting idea. I liked the location you got (The grafitti filled underground tunnel). My major complain with this film would be the acting. It was very unnatural. Also, the editing did not help the acting. What I mean by that is when the two guys are talking and hiding, the cuts with the dialogue need to be tightened. It felt like every cut lagged. Maybe it's just me, I don't know. Anyway, just something to improve on next time :) Enjoyed your film nonetheless! :)

[Norm Sanders]

The antongists, SCREAMERS, sounds cool. However, I'd like to have heard them more, and certainly would have liked to have seen something.

Acting was stiff, but unless we're using professionals, this is going to be tough for a lot of us. Location was cool, but the whole thing could have used some punching up in post.

At first the whole roving camera was bugging me, as I really wanted to see some better cuts/edits, but it kind of grew on me ... not sure why.

It was a nice effort, but I think so much more could have been done. That said, you've said yourself this was your first project, so kudos for being able to complete the thing, and the next one will be all that much better from what you've learned while you did this, in conjunction with the feedback you'll receive through this festival. Good job on seeing it through to the finish!

[Blaine]

Personally, I would have preferred cuts between the actor talking, instead of the ping pong back and forth. That location was cool, though. With this effort you've got something to build on. Every director needs to start somewhere and every project will be a learning and growing experience. Keep at it. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

[CallaghanFilms]

First off, job well done on the location scouting. The graffiti-lined set really made for a dirty mood...a feel of desperation.

I think your story had potential, but you could have done a much better job of fleshing it out. That being said, the film would have played even better still if you had cast actors with some experience...any experience (even if it's only local or college theatre.) I didn't even mind your not showing the antagonist...but again, I say especially if you are going to have only two characters shown on screen, the actors portraying them had better be able to sell every minute of it.

The two most important components are a strong story and a strong cast to match.

Cheers :beer:
and I look forward to seeing more of your work.

[angrynerdrock07]

Great job on your first attempt. I really enjoyed your piece. Like everyone else, I agreed that the acting wasn't great but as far as directing I think you show a lot of potential. Keep at it.

[Kaz]

Yep. Definitely needed some real actors. I would also try to make your sound effects more subtle. When the dude left as a distraction and was attacked, it was LOUD. I didn't know if that was supposed to be comical, or what.

The idea was there, it just didn't gel. But it's your first film and a lot of people don't even get that far. Good job.

[Z B Brox]

I'm gonna concur with a lot of the points above. The acting was unnatural and the editing lagged, and the sound mixing could deifnitley use some work. I'm not sure what kind of equipment you were using, but a lot of the dialogue wasn't as clear and crisp as it could've been.

I will reiterate that the locations were great and there was some fun creative stuff with the conflict. However, in terms of script, the dialogue got stilted in places. More experienced actors may've been able to sell it, but it didn't work here. In terms of the baddies, that may be my biggest complaint. I really didn't feel the fear. Not because we didn't see them, but we never got any real reason to be afraid of them, at least not until the death near the end.

Definitely directorial potential here, and it was usually a pleasure to just look at. I'd definitely like to see what you do on your *second* try.

[THX-1138]

Just a quick comment on your credits...

TOO QUICK I could'nt read them. By the time they were put together they went away. Slow that down. Or not so fancy.

[bc5431]

Since so many people have commented on the loose editing and stiff acting, I figured I would respond briefly. This thing went through the entirety of preproduction and production while I was working on a paper on German director Wim Wenders, and I ended up adopting many of the things that his films are known for. His early films in particular. The stiff acting and with the blank face and immobile torso were intentional. I told my actors to do that. What I was trying to do here was something other than create emotional sympathy with the predicament these people were in, but to ask the viewer to consider it from a purely unemotional standpoint (ala Brecht and Wenders' contemporary Fassbinder). The long take and refusal to cut away from a person's face, even when they are not speaking were taken directly from Wenders. I wanted you to be uncomfortable with what was going on by making you uncomfortable with how it was shown. The hope was to get you to ask why I did not cut away. It seems that instead you simply assumed it was a novice's mistake - and perhaps their was a novice's mistake somewhere in there, but it was in failing to get you to ask the right questions. As for the sound quality and all that, I was working with basically no equipment and no crew, so chalk that up under that column. I am not sure that that was at all comprehensible, but hopefully it was. Thank you for the comments.

[wcs]

It took me a while to figure out my problem with the movie. It's the center plot piece... Who would invent a bomb that kills in a ten mile radius and only give it a ten second fuse?

I'd answer that question with 'only crazy people'. And, these people don't seem to be crazy.

Other than that, I watched the movie again after reading your post, and just came to the conclusion that one of your actors didn't get the message. The bearded one plays emotion, and the younger one plays it cold.

I understand your filming choices better now, and I can enjoy your camerawork better. And I guess this is an experiment, but in the end it's just not enjoyable on a cinematic or intellectual level.

Don't give up, though. I think an intellectual approach to filmmaking is just as interesting as an emotional one. Hollywood won't want you, but that's not really a problem as long as you bring honesty to your work.

[Jeremy Ordan]

Haven't read what anyone else has posted, but my review:

Hidden – I loved the violin or cello in the beginning. It was the perfect simple score to pull you in. I like the whole: this world is dead our’s look a little bit different. Good location, but the shadows right in the beginning (:50) give away your light source way too much. I like the steadicam work in the beginning (55-111). Your location is a great find. The camera shifting from person to person at first caught my attention, but after a second viewing I like the continuous shooting over lots of cuts. I thought it worked well. Your wardrobe worked well as well, I liked that. The device was a little bit of a let down, I don’t know, just made me not buy it. The guy with the busted leg, I liked his acting with the exception of the ‘only a 10 second fuse line’. I thought it worked well. The other actor I wasn’t crazy about. I just didn’t buy him. Good use of sound in general though. I liked your editing; I thought it was minimal enough that it didn’t draw attention to itself, while still progressing the story in a visual way that is satisfying to the viewer. The sound of the attack is good. Really enjoyed that. The dolly in move worked for me as well. I like the walking through the halls shot (428) and even the shots outside. I wasn’t a fan of the little monologue at the end. It just didn’t work for me and seemed a bit cliché. Overall, good camera work, good locations, good wardrobe, just wasn’t crazy about the dialogue. Keep it up Ben, look forward to what you come up with next.

[EditPhish]

Funny how opinions can vary. TheYankee liked the violin/cello -- I HATED it. Yeah, strong word hate, but it really grated me the wrong way. Combine that with a bad sound mix and it bothered me even more.

I did like your underground setting, but felt like the lighting could have been more interesting, less flat. I also felt the editing overall could have been paced better. Reading your reply I see you were going for something pretty specific, but all I can comment on is the end result... which to me appeared unplanned and random.

I liked your use of sound when the one guy gets killed, and like your use of camera work combined with sound. The sound was a little off balance, or too loud to be convincingly away from the character we are looking at, who is listening to this horror.

I liked the concept of the end but I'm not sure the actor pulled off the dialogue... It didn't leave me feeling much of anything... interest to know more or to ask questions included. I understand you told them to play things cold or emotionless, but that seemed to translate more to looking like bad acting, not a good actor playing cold or emotionless.

Thanks for sharing your film... I hope my constructive criticism wasn't too harsh... I don't mean for it to come across as mean! I think you put forth a great effort especially for your first attempt at directing!

[Jimmy John Worley]

I liked the location, lighting and cinamatography. At a couple poitns the image looked a little too dark, but it worked for the style. The effect in the end with the grenade was also pretty cool.

[conrad_johnson]

Hey - Very dramatic. Good low contrast look contributes to the depressed mood. Overall, it was a little slow moving and the editing a little awkward. The long takes didn't bother me, but some of the cuts seemed unecessarily short.

[thartley]

Loved the location, but it overpowered your scene at times. I found myself looking at The Fonz on the wall in BG and trying to read some of the tags instead of following the scene.

I think you had a really good story, and the dialogue was pretty well-written for the time allotted. However, a combination of not-so-good acting and lack of appropriate shots thinned it out. We got a couple of good close-ups on the guys while they are walking in the tunnel, but when they are actually in the small room hiding out, we get a wider shot on both, and quick pans. Vary your shots in there and get in close to give us a feeling of the space they are in. Also, the lighting was distracting in that scene.

Overall, I liked your entry. Keep shooting. You've got great potential!

[John C Lyons]

i enjoyed the montage of morning shots, although one or too felt overly low-contrast/foggy compared to others. also loved the graffiti halls location!

the acting was a bit stiff and i wish there was a way to show a bit more of the screamers. maybe when the one guy got attacked instead of just hearing sound effects, it could have worked to have show the shadow of him being attacked and cast it against one of those hallways - just an idea.

interesting concept.

[Ought2bCommitted]

Like many others, I think there was potential shown here in this piece but ultimately I think it falls very far from its mark.

Its hard to tell if stronger actors with more presence might have generated more interest or not, but the actors are the primary thing wrong with the piece. Really good acting can elevate almost any piece.

Some of the shot choices were bland. Knowing you were under some constraints, I will cut you a little slack...but realistically, no one cares. They pay to see a movie not hear under what circumstances it was made.

The lighting in the main location could have really made that scene fly. Just barely able to see the background... entice people... use shadows better. It was a great location that just wasn't used. It should have felt like a third character.

I didn't mind the music. I thought it created some desperately needed mood.

Overall while not a strong piece it shows a lot of potential. Great job!

-Robert

[Jared Meyer]

For me, the only glaring problem with this short was the acting, which was just too stiff for me to be able to buy into the story.

Our short suffers from less than perfect acting as well, so I can sympathize as to how difficult this aspect can be!

Keep on filming...

[iSTy]

I'm really sorry, but I only have one word for this.

Boring!

[wcs]

I'm really sorry, but I only have one word for this.

I'm not someone who gets offended very easily. But if I was, I'd tell you where you could shove that single-word review that lacks substance or tact. It might have been boring, that doesn't matter.

Next time you feel the need to belittle in a place meant for constructive criticism, realize that its completely useless except for inflating the ego of the person belittling. But if you need a little ego puff... well then, feel free I guess.

[iSTy]

There was no 'ego puff' there at all. I watched all the films and made comment about each one, in a separate document, I am just giving my opinion on all the films.

I apologised, in advance, but if you really want constructive criticism.

What was the point in passing the bomb to a 'friend' when you're going to go and get attacked anyway, surely the best thing to do would be to take the bomb with you and blow up everyone. I didn't think much of the acting, and, to me, there was no reason.

Like I say. I'm sorry. (and at the end of the day, it is only one persons comment and my own opinion)

[Z B Brox]

I think the point is that a one-word review isn't very constructive. It doesn't suggest how things can improve, it just makes the other person feel bad. Your opinion is perfectly valid, but something like "I found it boring, I think you really need to make the threat more apparant to increase the tension" is a lot more useful and less offensive than just "boring."

[iSTy]

Once again, I apologise, but that is all i had in my document. I hope the additional comments I have made have proved constructive to you. :)

[bc5431]

There was actually a line that explained why he passed off the bomb, but it was spoken offscreen and had to be redone, so it was on a different audio track in Vegas. I realized long after it was too late to do anything about it that Vegas had not rendered that track! The line was a reiteration of something said earlier, so hopefully a few people caught it, but if you didn't, I can't really blame you. It was part of a throw-away line the first time. Basically, Keest's leg is really bad and when he ran to get away from the screamers, he messed it up more, so he can barely walk - which is why it took him so long to stand up. That's why he passes off the bomb. He gets himself killed anyways to provide a distraction so that Helgend can get away. The reason that the bomb has a 10 second fuse and not one long enough to let the bomber get away is the same reason that any suicide bomber does what they do: it makes a much stronger statement and there is no risk of the charge being found and disabled prior to detonation, but after the bomber has left.
Thanks to everyone who has left helpful comments. I appreciate the advice you gave me and hope to incorporate into my next project. As I said earlier, I was trying to do something very specific with this film, and if it did not quite get it all done, so be it.
As for iSTy's comment, I have had people throwing one word insults at me my whole life and it has really stopped having any effect. So, iSTy, you are welcome to continue using me as a punching bag for as long as you like, because if you are really such a sad soul that you must insult others to feel any joy, then I would never deny you that small, meager pleasure. Lord knows you won't be getting any others.
I had a really good time making this project and, once again, appreciate everything people had to say about it, and had a great time watching all the other projects out there. Keep up the good work everyone!
~~~Ben
P.S.: Prefacing an insult with "No offense, but..." or "Don't take this the wrong way, but..." does not make it any less insulting. In fact, it makes it both insulting and patronizing! To use a horribly inappropriate and overblown analogy, if Hitler had said, "Don't take this the wrong way, but we are better than you and so for the good of the human race, we have to eliminate you from the gene pool while exploiting your dying days for profit," would that have made it all OK?

[Captain KickAss]

I thought this film had a lot of potential. In the end, much of this potential was left unrealized.

On the techical side, your visuals and audio were just okay. In parts, your lighting and camera work were pretty good...however on the whole, they were nothing to write home to mom about. None the less, these aspects were nothing I couldn't forgive had the story been developed and presented a bit better.

Your actors were unconvincing, and the script had some pretty big holes in it. In particular, I was confused by the scene towards the end of the film when the one guy leaves the room to stall for his friend. The sounds of his apparent demise were so loud...it made me wonder why in the world this other guy would be so non-chalant in his departure from the room.

If that were me...I would be running my ass off to get out of there...not strolling leisurely down the hall like nothing had just happened or could happen.

Mad props on your location choices though. These were great locations, and really added to your storytelling.

[iSTy]

wcs says: "It might have been boring, that doesn't matter. "

Of course it matters. Who wants 'boring'?

bc5431 says: "I have had people throwing one word insults at me my whole life and it has really stopped having any effect. So, iSTy, you are welcome to continue using me as a punching bag for as long as you like, because if you are really such a sad soul that you must insult others to feel any joy, then I would never deny you that small, meager pleasure."

I have not used you as a 'punchbag'. As for the 'sad soul' - I could well be, after all I've sat and watched 59 films just to give my view http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/images/icons/icon12.gif (and commented on all of them apart from one, because it isn't 'marked-up') - I am pleased you have cleared up the bomb throwing confusion. Thank you.

Captain KickAss says: "I would be running my ass off to get out of there...not strolling leisurely down the hall like nothing had just happened or could happen."

Good point there, too.

bc5431 says: "I had a really good time making this project"

That's the main thing. :)

[GenJerDan]

It took me a while to figure out my problem with the movie. It's the center plot piece... Who would invent a bomb that kills in a ten mile radius and only give it a ten second fuse?.

:) The Davy Crockett tactical nuke had a blast radius bigger than its range.

[lookatmeimbender]

I liked the setting but i didnt believe the actors or what they were a afraid of.