arielman...Kenenhskwas Onnhe (Soul Takers)

[arielman]

Here is our 2nd attempt at a short..

The musket used is a Brown Bess 2nd Model and fires 3/4" lead round balls .

The Fort used here was built in 1838 . The original Fort Henry was located nearby .The Royal Military College now sits on that site .

Commadore Chauncy did indeed invade Kingston on that day , the rest is all fiction .

Your comments and suggestions are welcomed .
Ian

[Blaine]

Boy, did you go for something different. And I think you pulled it off. I might have liked to know a little more about the Soul Takers but I understand how hard that's got to be in such a limited amount of time. You did a good job keeping the present out of the past. I thought you had a nice score, too. Thanks for giving me something interesting to watch. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

[JimtheJib]

i was a bit confused by the story and thrown off because it didn't feel like the 1800's. thats a hard thing to do, especially hard in 6 minutes.... nice job though...keep it up...

[Brandon Rice]

Hey, you did have a real nice score as Blaine said. I thought this film was personally paced very poorly. The end felt too quick, and the beginning felt way too long. Just my opinion. I need to watch again to give you a better, more full review, but those are some of my initial thoughts.

[Norm Sanders]

Ian, I like what you tried to do and know your next project will only be that much better. With some tighter editing, I think the impalements would have looked more real (sped up, quicker cuts, etc.), as well as some of the other stunts/falls.

I did enjoy, very much, the weaponry ... did those actually FIRE the projectiles? Looked authentic.

My favorite part in the whole short was when the boy on the porch yelled "Pa!" and gets up to run to his father. Just the moment really did it for me with the camera angle, the kid's expression/excitement, etc.

Otherwise, however, I was really left in the dark with the story. Whether it was the editing/post production that left me wondering who exactly was who, or just the story in general that left too many unanswered questions for me ... but I had no idea what was going on, and couldn't make sense of it.

That aside, it was a valient effort to do a period piece in this fest, which will help it to stand out some from the rest within that regard.

[arielman]

Wow so quick guys lol

Thanks Blaine the Soul Takers were to be part of Indian Myth . These creatures were to travel from star to star stealing souls and would come here every 100 yrs and that is why The Indians refused to go . This was based very loosely on Indian( Mohawk) myth of an evil spirit .

JimtheJib (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=9486) vbmenu_register("postmenu_435049", true); ..Yes indeed it was hard to do the 1800's , especially the clothes. I did have the chance to rent proper clothing at $75 pr day ..OUCH!
so we did what we could ona budget.
One of my co workers also didn't like the clothes as well and was disappointed too .

briceman (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=6061) vbmenu_register("postmenu_435050", true); Thanks for your comments . the original idea we had for the begining was too be shorter but didn't fit the story telling very well so I cut it .
I'll go back and have another look to see where I could improve upon at the start and end
Thanks Brandon , JimtheJib and Blaine for your comments
Ian

[arielman]

Envision (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=3632) vbmenu_register("postmenu_435077", true);

Thanks Norm. Yes the musket did fire BUt not those 3/4' balls only used powder with a wad of paper to pack .
In the DVD I made for everyone ..The opening scene states That there are only 3 men left of the Militia unit and so forth . This at least explains the story better .
There was some first for me here eg: the night scenes , the fight and of course the impalement . The fight scene we already have an idea what to do next time as for the impalement ..HHMM more thinking on that one , camera angle maybe ?
Editing.. Ah yes and I am still learning this . Sure is different doing shorts as to motorcycle events .
I think my biggest problem here is that I know the story and edit to that not realizing you the viewer may not understand.
Definately improvement needed here.
Ian

[Bigmagic]

I liked the camera work for the most part. I too had a hard time with the production design and story. I liked the old forts and old weapons. The costumes didn't seem authentic which makes it hard to get into the story. All that said I look forward to your next effort I think you have some potiential. Nice job!

[Z B Brox]

The setting is a beautiful, for a start. I was really interested in the idea right off the bat, but like others I lost the thread of the story about halfway through. The editing was a little odd in places, as has been mentioned the fight scenes could've packed a lot more punch. The score was nice, and it was very *present*. It was noticeable, which was sometimes good, and sometimes came off a little cheesy. I agree about the shot of the little kid, that was very nice. In short, I was initially really interested and really impressed by some of the shots of the scenery, but as it went on problems with the story dragged it down for me.

[arielman]

Thanks guys for the comments .
As the more of these I do I hope to improve on the story telling .
Sure wish I had period clothing . I spent close to 6 weeks looking in all the thrift shops trying to find something that would of worked .
The music , well it was hard trying to find period stuff .

Some of the music was from Old Fort Henry "Fife and Drums".
Bryan Mercer(Administration) Gave us permission to use the sound tracks in this but there was only so much we could use . So we did the best we could with what we had .
Ian

[penfever]

As usual, the vox populi has hit it right on the head. I'm just going to fill in a few cracks.
I think you should try to get more out of your actors. They were some of the coolest-looking actors in the festival, but you didn't utilize their full potential. Push them harder, and I think you'll like what you see. And don't feel the need to hide behind special FX. In the end, the B+W didn't serve this film well, as it looked 'effect-y'.
This is the height of nit-picking, but commodore is with an o, not an a.
The key thing to take away from this is that you had, hands down, one of the best CONCEPTS in the fest. That means one day, you can make the best FILM in the fest. All you need now is to hone your execution to razor edge, and keep thinking originally. DOn't stop shooting!

[David Jimerson]

The clothes were 1990s - 2000s vintage. That pretty much closed me out of it right there, and I watched further because I wanted to see if it was explained, but it wasn't.

Also, there were a number of misspellings in the credits, such as "Commadore."

I liked the theme; it was a decent story idea, but the production of it kind of left me in the cold (no pun intended).

Still, you put it out there, so you have some brass tacks.

[arielman]

penfever (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=10398).......... Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

First off I can't Thank enough both Claire and Scotty for doing this . They were both so enthused . Both want to participate in an other short .
I decided to go B/W from the start . I didn't think colour would've worked but some of the shots in colour are nice !
I do thank you for your encouragement and as for the nit-picking ...Hey That's OK !!
I am truly embarrassed though .
Ian

David Jimerson (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=291) ....The clothing was my biggest dissapiontment in doing this . I really wanted to keep this as period as I could get BUT at $75 pr day per costume , I just couldn't afford that . Although a British outfit cost $500 Canadian and an American outfit of that period cost $ 350 U.S ,that might be the way to go . If I had to do it all over again I think I would buy those outfits of circu 1812 . There is something of that period in History I like and besides I could've really used them .lol

The misspellngs , I have no one to blame but myself , I cannot believe I let those slip by ....So Thank You David and penfever for pointing these out to me .
Thanks David for your comments and I appologize for the Spelling Blunder(s).
Ian

[Jeremy Ordan]

I haven't read anyone else review yet (that is my goal after I get through my paragraphs on all the films) so forgive me if I repeat anything.

Soul Takers – OK, Ian, the first thing I will say is that your film kept me watching to find out what was going on and what was happening. That actually says a lot because I never stopped to look at the clock progress. The historical stuff at the beginning was interesting and I liked the direction you went in. The wardrobe didn’t really work for me and confused me as to what I was watching. I couldn’t figure out if this was 18th or 21st century. Your camera movement has improved a lot since the zombiefest and I think you had a great outdoor location for your project. The acting I thought was good and didn’t distract from the story. Your score is effective and never pulls you out of the movie. I think the biggest areas of opportunity for improvement are with foley. The punch, the bullets, the hand going into the chest, it just pulls you out of the project. At 3:14 when the score kicks back in you jump up and get more interested, but the payoff from the score doesn’t come with it. I loved the projectile effect though. Ultimately I don’t think I really got the movie and think that you lost me somewhere around 4:23. The beauty of the shots kept me watching, that snowy beach and all, but the story just didn’t work for me. The final encounter at 4:50 didn’t work for me and I don’t think it added anything. The story ultimately was the let down. You camera work has improved, your editing has improved, and I would be really proud of the progress you have made.

[EditPhish]

Hi Arielman,

You seem to be taking the constructive criticism well and wanted to share my notes with you... I've watched your film about 4 times now, and have to say, the hardest part of it for me was understanding the story.

I personally don't like long read setups at beginnings of films, especially if the film is only 6 minutes. 40 seconds may not seem like a lot, but in a 6 minutes short it's quite a bit and immediately sets a slow momentum for the film (IMO). Briceman commented that the pacing seemed off, too short at the end, too long at the beginning, and I agree... I think the long read setup doesn't help.

You camera shots seemed pretty good, but there was some awkward editing that took away from them... especially during the actual confrontations with the soul takers. Your music fades/edits were also a little awkward which contributed to the pacing issues.

I kinda felt like YOU knew what you wanted to get across, but didn't tell US the story all that clearly... it got lost in the translation. I didn't really "get" the end at all and it seemed a bit random to me with the cutaway shots of family members and children.

I DID like your use of black & white -- it seemed appropriate for the story you were telling. The scenery was great and the weather was working in your favor. It was a little washed out in spots and I thought you could have punched up the contrast a bit.

Thanks for sharing it and being so open to constructive criticism... it's how we all learn to get better right? :)

[THX-1138]

Editing fight scenes...watch films for that. Maybe ones you don't necessarily like.

Kung Fu movies come to mind...good ones

28 days later...a zombie film is also a well edited movie with fight scenes.

Solid effort with an intresting angle...more of a twighlight Twilight Zone aproach.

I like that.

Kip Kubin

[BrianV]

Definately had its unique thing going, and I'm a sucker for black and white :)

[arielman]

TheYankee (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=7852) vbmenu_register("postmenu_437722", true); ...Sorry if I am short on the reply it's 10:30Pm and 4:30am comes way to early .
We tried to make our own Foley but didn't succeed very well .Failed if you like . So we had to use alternative sound effects . The Gun fire is the actual sound of the Musket just a little louder , Glad you liked the projectile effect .I wasn't sure if this would throw people off or not .
The camera angles came from watching the many great Cilps that are shown here at DVXUSER and with the advice that comes with these shorts .
Hopefuly I can improve my story telling , maybe not on the next one but at least in the near future .
One thing I learned from this , I can't do everything myself , work 12 hrs come home , go film ., in bed and up for 4:30 . Next time I will have helpers as I got just to worn out .
Thanks Yankee for your suggestions and Compliments .

EditPhish (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=11594) Constructive critism I can live with . The editing part I feel I have improved since my first short . Still a long ways to go I'm afraid but am learning .
The contrast I did add originally BUT when viewed on another monitor It was too dark and I decided at the last moment to tone it down a little for fear of it being un-watchable . I do agree with you on this as it does need a little contrast.
I love this time period and really wanted to do something different from everyone else .
The long intro . Yes I agree . I had a gut feeling it may have been too long BUt decided to go with it anyway as I had no way of introducing the story .
I will keep this in mind next time .
The photo's ...With the KID coming home to no one ,I felt adding a picture would add ..a human touch to him , to the scene , I'm not sure if I can explainit but I'm sure you know what I am getting at .
As for the last picture , looking at it now I realize with Zacharia coming home to his BOY the photo is not needed . Why do we see things afterwards?
I am glad you liked the B/W , the Colour shots of the Beach are very nice .
If anyone is interested at the end of the Competition ,I could post the clip of this in the Colour version .
Again Thanks for your Comments EditPhish (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=11594) they are most welcomed.

THX-1138 (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=6474) ... Thanks for the Tips on the fight scenes , Having never done one before , well lets say it was an experience .
We will be ordering the Video of how to do fight scenes , the Web site is on Barry's DVD . This may help us with our next fight scene .
I have noticed a number of fights in movies Hint at a punch but you never see it , certainly not like some older movies.
I hope you could follow the story line as this seems to be my weakest part so far ...eerr Ok the clothes aswell .
BrianV (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=10003) vbmenu_register("postmenu_438476", true); ..."Definately had its unique thing going, and I'm a sucker for black and white"

If that's a compliment? I'll take it ..lol
Hope you liked the B/W . I really liked the ones in the ZOMBIE FEST that were done in B/W . I thought these were done really well ,which helped me decided to try and do B/W.

Thanks Everyone for your thoughts on my short BUt in less than 5 hrs I have to get up for work.
I will be back Monday , see you then.
Ian

[conrad_johnson]

Hey Arielman - Good effort, and it sounds like you had a lot of fun with your short. The titles were too short throughout and a lot of the editing was stilted. I was really lost throughout the short, as well. Kudos for trying something different, though. Your concept was definitely unique. Great locations, too!

[BrianV]

If that's a compliment? I'll take it ..lol
Hope you liked the B/W . I really liked the ones in the ZOMBIE FEST that were done in B/W . I thought these were done really well ,which helped me decided to try and do B/W.

Yeah, it was a compliment ;)

[CallaghanFilms]

I think you definitely found an interesting angle with this story...
not to mention a subject matter not yet tapped into.
Congrats on that in itself (t'is not an easy thing to do.)

I liked your decision to shoot in black and white.
I think that choice gave way to your capturing some really nice shots.

From a writing standpoint I am trying to figure out why you
didn't just make some adaptions to your period setting...if you
couldn't secure the appropriate costumes, that is. As an example,
you could have had the setting moved to the 1930's, while still
offering us some of the colorful military history that had occurred
"on this very spot" as background. Also, by using a hunting/camping
party, you would have eliminated the need to show two actors as
an entire army division.

Just food for thought. Like I said, the Soul Takers angle was
unquestionable an original one, and one that you should
consider upping the ante with and reworking on a larger scale.
Hell, that is something I'd be interested in seeing.

Cheershttp://www.dvxuser.com/V6/images/smilies/beer.gifarielman

[John C Lyons]

Good locations and weaponry! And quite a unique story. I liked the "Pa!" shot too.

I don't think you needed so many title cards, the story was basically people walking through the woods and getting attacked, then fighting. I don't se the reasoning for saying we were in different places with different people, I couldn't really tell between any of them.

Keep practicing guys and work on getting that editing tighter, I look forward to seeing more of your work.

[MsManhattan]

I liked the overall look of this -- with the exception of the continuity issues with the weather (I could totally relate to that...) and the fact that the costumes were completely off for the time period. That shot where the boy yells "Pa!" -- that was your money shot (as many others here have noted). But, overall, I didn't get the story. I think it was probably an interesting idea, and I was frustrated that it didn't come across. Partly because there were just too many shots of the same thing over and over. I couldn't tell the actors apart so I didn't know who to care about, and I had no idea what was happening to them. Anyway, I think I am repeating what others have said, so I'll just add that I want to encourage you to maybe develop this idea more fully and rewrite, reshoot and re-edit your story because I think it could be really interesting, and I do like the quality of the cinematography a lot. For a second short, it's pretty great, and bottom line is, we all have things we would redo if we had the time and were able to have the same perspective in the moment of working on something that we are able to have after-the-fact... ;) So, definitely keep it up!

[arielman]

CallaghanFilms (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=6548) vbmenu_register("postmenu_439763", true);

The 1930's ,yes that would of worked as the Fort was rebuilt in 1938 if I remember correctly . Glad you liked the B/W .
Claire ( Pa) had suggessted after we had started filming we should of went to his Hunting camp . His camp maybe used for another later on .
I like your idea and this may have worked much better than mine but then it is up to me to pull it off.
I wish this was done in the summer as I wouldn't have had so many weather issues and delay's in filmimg But we did have fun and I am glad we did finish and submitted to the FEST. Hiccups and all.
To do this on a bigger scale and I would love to. I would need profesional help. Someone with another Camera and better Director skills than I .
A 20 min short would be nice .
All the guys at work loved the idea as well , the time period , the muskets and Bayonets and ALIENs.
Glad you liked the idea of this short, only if....

the-lyons-den.com (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=1083)

Getting comments and suggestions from you and from the many others here mean a lot to me .
Funny as you sit back and take in the suggestions we can see alternative beginings and endings . What I did wrong and what you all liked.
What upset me with this short was that lack of proper clothing , I really wanted that look for this time period ..live and learn .
Everything I have learned so far has been trial and error , including camera work , sound and editing . I guess you could call it Learn as you go .
I will continue to watch the many excellent shorts /grabs from members and listen to suggestions from you guys as well .
MsManhattan (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=9343)

The continunity issues was a real problem and I am glad you understand .
This had to be the weirdest Winter I can remember . One day snow , then rain ,freezing temps and temps up to 50 F.
The opening scene with all that snow was all but gone in approx 2 weeks , just when we had to film . We set out to film one Sat night ( night off) the temp fell to - 10 F..add wind chill to that and we called it off.
The scene in which the The Kid dreams of ,The day started off mild . Then the rain came , the temp fell , then snow .(you can here this in the clip)
My finger tips were sooo cold I could no longer feel the buttons on the camera . The musket missfired due to the powder being damp , the vent hole plugged (5/64 hole) and had to be cleaned ( try doing this with frozen fingers .lol). Plus we were all soaked and COLD.
This was not the best day we had .
Strange isn't it just a while ago we had no snow, the Temp was near 50 and N.Y gets hit with a nasty snow storm. We got none , weird.

I am glad you are telling me what you do not like or understand and what you do like .
If only one or 2 didn't understand OK I would n't worry so much but when everyone doesn't understand the story , Well that tells me something I really need to improve upon.
I Thank everyone for their Honest comments , suggestions and encouragement .

I must appologize to everyone if I haven't made it to you short yet . I am very slowly plugging away on the time I have .Hopefully Tues I can review a lot more ..Thanks again everyone .
Ian

[arielman]

Yeah, it was a compliment ;)

Thank You Brian .
Watching the films then trying to write a review takes sooo much time . Then go to post and I have re sign in again for the umpteenth time .

The Man from Hollywood sounds like a good one , I'll try tomorrow on my day off to view .
Ian

[Slimothy]

I really couldn't follow the story too well. I will have to watch it a second time to understand it fully. First thing I thought was "wow, these are some nice locations". Also-I wish you wouldn't have went B&W as it looked like some nice scenery. Some of the compositions were really good and I think would have looked great as still images (maybe you can post some color ones?). As a film, though, I really don't think it worked. The score was all over the place, the pacing was jumpy/hard to follow, the sound was kind of wonkey and the story was not very understandable. I DO think it is quite a step up from the zombie film though. I remember you had quite a few obstacles filming that one. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but like I always say: Your entry is way better than my Non-entry, and I'm sure you learned a hell of alot more than I did on this one. Tim.

[J.R. Hudson]

I just did not like this piece

Perhaps with a more skilled helmer

But it did not work for me at all.

The photography, the sound, the story, the pacing....

None of it worked. Hated it.

Just being honest. .

[Beat Takeshi]

I found the changes in weather really distracting and I thought I was being taken back and forth in time of something. I didnt really understand what was going on except that a spirit was hanging around.
The pee coats didnt look old enough so and it kept me from thinking i was in the 1800s. Sometimes you can find vintage clothes and stuff on ebay for cheap and if you try another period piece (which i think is one of the hardest things to do) you can try getting some stuff alittle closer to the time.

[Ought2bCommitted]

Hi Ian!

I haven't read any other reviews, so I am sorry if I repeat here!

I immensely enjoyed the overall look of your piece, washedout and kind of gray. It was interesting to look at it.

The on screen text was often too quickly removed. I'm a pretty fast reader but there were a few times I was barely half way through the text when it disappeared. I also felt many of the texts were unnecessary. You should tighten that up to one or two simple worded on screen texts.

I didn't believe it to be period which is a huge drawback taking me right out of the movie as soon as we see your actors. About the only thing other than some scenery and buildings that were convincing period was the weapons.

The fights and death scenes were either poorly staged or poorly edited. They didn't pack any punch.

The acting was fairly good through out. No one stood out as being really bad or really good, however.

Nice score, and good use of it. I enjoyed this a lot.

Towards the end when the character goes into the building and the light is on outside.... again, ruins the period feel...

My biggest, and most severe, gripe though is the story. I just didn't get what was happening and that made it very hard for me to care about anything I was watching.

Overall, a solid attempt with some really nice work and some good elements. Nice job!!!

-Robert

[arielman]

Ought2bCommitted (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=5429)
Robert glad you're still with us . I thought you were MIA . I was looking towards a film from you .
I won't go into much detail Robert as I will be just repeating myself .
The light bit bugged me BUT it was a very tigh shot , if I moved the camera one way another I would get Modern buildings or cars parked Nr by .
I do appreciate your view on this .Thanks Robert

Aram Bauman (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=414)
Continunity ...Yup and please blame the weather on this .
Weirdest winter yet. We either have snow or we don't . This year was all screwed up . Not much we could do about it except not do this and I almost packed it in because of it . We had - 10 f temps . High winds ( 50mph) or Blizzards .This all caused No shoots .Frustrating !!!
All that snow in the scene which the men are running into was all but gone in the following 2 weeks .
I am afraid I do not have the Talent of NBC or The Yankee to make a good film in such a short time .
I am glad we still entered though , Faults and all.

Slimothy (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=3501) vbmenu_register("postmenu_441574", true);

Not sure if watching a 2nd time will help .
I'll post my idea for the story in short form Tomorrow .
In the mean time here was my log line .

It's 1812 and the battle for North America is underway.
3 men from the Pennsyvania Militia are the only ones left .They are being hunted and it's not the British.
Well kind of like that .
Thanks guys for you views
Ian

[arielman]

I just did not like this piece

Perhaps with a more skilled helmer

But it did not work for me at all.

The photography, the sound, the story, the pacing....

None of it worked. Hated it.

Just being honest. .

Thanks John .You couldn't be more Honest .

Ian

[kimko]

HEY IAN, WELL THE B/W DIDN'T WORK FOR ME I WOULD HAVE LIKED THE SCENERY IN COLOR BECAUSE THE STORY I COULDN'T FOLLOW. THE CHARACTERS WELL NOTHING ESTABLISHED. THE CONCEPT IS INTERESTING native american lore is to me) the clothing shoot man just put some effort into it go to the library. use cloth over the boot from payless. put a rag over that knitted hat and tie it under the chin. put a blanket cut in half make a half cape around the shoulders make that navy jacket look period. the bayonetting just have him raise it then cut into the victim getting impaled then back to him pulling it out. hitchcockish. i didn't see any possible bags, no powder horns. these guys were out in the woods with no bedding and no back pack and no canteen. you have the guns and nice ones too and they were flintlocks not cap and rifled. good try!

[iSTy]

Nope, didn't like this one, didn't understand it at all, and with no disrespect, I don't even think I can be bothered to read the other comments.

[Jared Meyer]

You picked a pretty ambitious story to tell, and I'm not sure I really understood it. Or maybe I understood it but I kept waiting for the "gotcha" moment at the end.

Regardless, I thought you had some great locations and several really nice shots. (As well as one of the more creative premises in the fest)

I guess it's lacking in the execution somehow.

But I know how hard all of this is to pull off successfully. Geez, if you watched my entry you'll know what I mean :)

Anyway, your short is very ambitious. Nice job on picking such a difficult story and really going for it.

[arielman]

kimko (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=9091) vbmenu_register("postmenu_448121", true); ..Thanks for the suggestions .

Powder horns etc .didn't have acces to these until after the film was done .
I now have 2 powder Horns .O well ..next time .
As for the lack of bedding , they were to have lost these during the fight with the soul takers .
Ian

[kimko]

i kinda figured on th e bedding man i wish i knew what your story was about because i have so much period stuff. mtnman and indian and western 1800's