Wolves

[Barry_Green]

Hey all,

Kevin Railsback asked me for some settings advice, because he was going up north to shoot wolves in the snow. I told him that it sounded fascinating and to please share some footage.

Holey moley.

For those on a Mac, check out this clip:
http://www.silverphoenixllc.com/wolves.mov

On the PC, Bob Gundu has supplied this conversion:
http://10framehandles.com/movies/wolvesHD_720_Hi001.mov

(please, "save as" rather than trying to stream it from his server).

This was shot in 720/24pN at 60fps. It's a short clip, but... well, I think it looks pretty good!

[Blaine]

Nice stuff, Barry. :cool:

[Drew599]

That was some really nice footage. Barry what settings did you tell him because it looks really good.

[Barry_Green]

Doesn't it look great? I think this is some of the best-looking HVX footage out.

And for some reason, I keep thinking this must be what it looks like at EVS whenever Rush gets a new HVX in... :)

As far as settings: he told me he was going to be shooting dark wolves against the snow, and asked how to maximize latitude. I told him this:
"For extended dynamic range you use cine-like-D, but that's the noisier of the gamma curves. For extended range with less noise you might try HD Norm with the knee set on LOW, but frankly I think you'll still get more range from cine-like-D.

Crank the coring up to max (+7) to minimize noise, and set the detail level a little lower (I'm using -3 nowadays, seems pretty good; -5 is a little less edge-enhanced but it makes things a little soft too.)"

All the rest is due to the skill of the cameraman and the sheer beauty of the subject being shot.

[n8ture]

Greetings,

This is what Barry suggested:
For extended dynamic range you use cine-like-D, but that's the noisier of the gamma curves. For extended range with less noise you might try HD Norm with the knee set on LOW, but frankly I think you'll still get more range from cine-like-D.

Crank the coring up to max (+7) to minimize noise, and set the detail level a little lower (I'm using -3 nowadays, seems pretty good; -5 is a little less edge-enhanced but it makes things a little soft too.)

Things happen so fast, it's hard to cover all the action.

The camera has been working perfect. I was concerned about going out with only 5 4gig cards but so far I've only filled them all once before I was done shooting.

With the snow falling I've shot a lot of 60fps footage and the falling snow is beautiful.

Besides, a wolf running full out is just a blur at normal speed. :-)

[n8ture]

Wow, you're fast Barry, I couldn't even get this all typed out above and you had already replied!

[Blaine]

Thanks for the feedback, Kevin. Beautiful job, kudos. :cool:

[bgundu]

Wow! Certianly looks great. I can't wait to get mine. I did however notice some purple fringing on the right leg of the wolf on the left side of the screen. I'm just curious as to what kind of conditions makes this more visible than others?

Great work n8ture!

[Isaac_Brody]

Darn. Can somebody on mac convert this to H264 or a WMV?

[filmmaker1977]

PC file, please?

You beat me, Isaac Brody. We'll be waiting.

Thank you both.

[boo]

really really and i mean really good footage! makes me feel like dancing w/ wolves...just not these wolves...

[bgundu]

Darn. Can somebody on mac convert this to H264 or a WMV?


Ok... for you PC people:

http://10framehandles.com/movies/wolvesHD_720_Hi001.mov

This was compressed with Sorenson Squeeze.

[Mr. Blonde]

Thanks bgundu! :)

[Mr. Blonde]

Holy SHEEEET that is freakin' amazing footage! WOW

[Isaac_Brody]

Thanks Bob.

Whoa...

That's friggin sweet. :eek:

[Barry_S]

That footage is gorgeous--incredible stuff. The tonality is rich and the image is crisp without a hint of video harshness. Great shooting, Kevin.

[KOVAROVA]

wow. amazing. dont know what else to say.

[filmmaker1977]

Thank you canadian.

[HagerNYC]

That is some very beautiful stuff stuff. Just watched it and it filled my whole monitor. lol I was speechless. Thanks for the PC file. I need to shoot on this camera! lol

[Seamus McFlannel]

I feel like I'm watching footage from a feature film.
Seamus

[Emanuel]

Great footage and tip, too! Congrats HVX men!

[n8ture]

Thanks for all the positive feedback!

I still have so much to learn about the HVX since I just got mine last week but with people like Barry on boards like this one, it makes it a lot easier.

I flipped between 24fps and 60fps. It's kind of amazing to me at least that at 24fps it looks brutal and savage but at 60fps it's almost poetic. It started snowing and the flakes falling at 60fps gave it a very dreamy look while at 24fps gave it a different look all together.

Just one of the nice things to be able to have the HVX for. :-)

[Emanuel]

Thanks for all the positive feedback!You're welcome!


I still have so much to learn about the HVX since I just got mine last week but with people like Barry on boards like this one, it makes it a lot easier.He is the supreme value of this website and his knowledge aka Barry's HVXbook school one reason enough to a HVX purchase, in this case, following its cinematic properties, the second one.


I flipped between 24fps and 60fps. It's kind of amazing to me at least that at 24fps it looks brutal and savage but at 60fps it's almost poetic. It started snowing and the flakes falling at 60fps gave it a very dreamy look while at 24fps gave it a different look all together.

Just one of the nice things to be able to have the HVX for. :-)That's one of the reasons why I'm thinking if it will not be better a 24p/60i version instead a 25p/50i to PAL countries, specially if the film-out is the major goal@ours. The second reason is (more than) the 20%-25% less expensive than@home... euro higher than dollar.

[kyle_doris]

this footage is nothing short of astonishing... let the resolution debate die! wow. granted, i'd hazard to guess it's not just the camera but the person behind the camera. still, just goes to show you what it can do in the hands of a skilled professional.

wowowowowowowow.

i CAN'T wait to get mine!

as for Barry, yes... he's a legend in my cirlce and he doesn't even know it. putting together my first feature was absolutely brutal. without Barry answering pretty much every one of my questions, it would have been a lot more brutal. i wonder how many films Barry gets thanked in during the credits that he doesn't even know about! haha!

[J.R. Hudson]

Feel free too post PC viewable !

[Emanuel]

Feel free too post PC viewable !Well said Mr. Walken.

[Barry_Green]

Feel free too post PC viewable !
PC version has been supplied by Bob Gundu. First post is modified to include a link to the PC version.

[imgentertainment@mac]

That looks so good. Every thing about it is perfect. And you are right it is poetic. Good work

[doumm]

kevin, awesome footage, between you and holyzoo my faith in the hvx has been restored. When you can, may you throw some of the 24p stuff here as well, did you record any sound with that?? I feel almost deprived with a lot of the footage, I suppose because people are really enjoying the slowmo stuff, theres no sound being recorded. Cheers

[lpcvideo1]

theres no sound being recorded. Cheers


Closed captioned for the Speed impaired:

Cruuuunnnch, Cruuuunnnch, Cruuuunnnch, Cruuuunnnch, Cruuuunnnch, Cruuuunnnch, Sllllllluuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrp.

[Isaac_Brody]

Closed captioned for the Speed impaired:

Cruuuunnnch, Cruuuunnnch, Cruuuunnnch, Cruuuunnnch, Cruuuunnnch, Cruuuunnnch, Sllllllluuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrp.

Good one. :)

[FabioRafael]

Amazing !!! I hope I can get my hvx as soon as possible.

[Anhar Miah]

Hm, that PC links doesn't work it keeps timming out, oh well I might try later.

Anhar

[Slimothy]

Awesome kevin.

How far were you away from the wolves?
Did they ever notice you?
Has this clip undergong any major cc?

[XCheck]

B-E-A-utiful !!!

I am telling you, this camera is dream come true for the nature filmmaker! Compact enough, with extended zoom range, the pre-record buffer, and AMAZING picture... I can't wait!

(This comes from a guy who purposely ignored the whole HVX thread until about a week before Christmas).

[doumm]

Yes, thats of great interest to me too, one of the fears that was potentially holding me back was the lack of lens reach for nature shooting. And infact is why I am still tossing up this camera with the hd101.

[SalaTar]

Cool Avid finally figured the codec.
http://www.salatar.com/hvx200/Untitled Sequence.01.jpg


264 (http://www.salatar.com/hvx200/wolves.264.mov) Gamma PC f**ked

Wonder why Apple is "trying to mess up 264 on a pc?"

[dvpixl]

this is the stuff of discovery HD.

[WINDCOUNTRY]

Awesome kevin.

How far were you away from the wolves?
Did they ever notice you?
Has this clip undergong any major cc?

Maybe captive?

[Barry_Green]

These aren't captive, these are in the wild woods of Minnesota. When he uploaded this clip he said he had to sign off because they have to get to bed on order to be able to get up before the sun and drive deep into the wild...

[Rich Lee]

man, nice footage....so amazing we can do 60fps now with this relativly inexpensive camera....KILLER!

whats the wierd shaking/vibration in the image? you can see it allot in the bottom of frame and in the out of focus bits.

great image man!

[janzie]

that´s really cool...

...but the PAL version will only be 50P, right?

[janzie]

oops...just found the other thread - sorry guys...

[bgundu]

man, nice footage....so amazing we can do 60fps now with this relativly inexpensive camera....KILLER!

whats the wierd shaking/vibration in the image? you can see it allot in the bottom of frame and in the out of focus bits.

great image man!


I was wondering that too. My guess is that the wind may be shaking the camera.

[contentlab]

the vibration could be him shaking with fear being so close to wolves at dinner time :)

but seriously, kevin i was wondering if you were using any lens adapters like a teleconverter? and just out of cuiriosity what stick/head combo are you using?

great looking footage!!

[Chris Messineo]

Awesome footage. :)

If I don't get my HVX soon, I may start weeping openly. :(

Chris

[joelnet]

Cool Avid finally figured the codec.
http://www.salatar.com/hvx200/Untitled Sequence.01.jpg


264 (http://www.salatar.com/hvx200/wolves.264.mov) Gamma PC f**ked

Wonder why Apple is "trying to mess up 264 on a pc?"

Does anyone else see that Chromatic Aberration? Somehow I get the feeling that if this was a JVC clip it's all anyone would be talking about.

[kyle_doris]

Does anyone else see that Chromatic Aberration? Somehow I get the feeling that if this was a JVC clip it's all anyone would be talking about.


i think people have already mentioned it. but the colors do speak for themselves, so no, i don't think that's all people would be talking about regardless of what camera produced it.

plus, if the JVC could shoot @ 60p we'd all be talking about how awesome that was... so this footage technically cannot be produced on the HD100; one of the reasons the footage is so nice is the overcrank.

[davidas]

Hey all,

Kevin Railsback asked me for some settings advice, because he was going up north to shoot wolves in the snow. I told him that it sounded fascinating and to please share some footage.

Holey moley...


Hey Barry & Kevin

I'm way partial to wolves. Once upon a time I was a proud friend and keeper of a Canadian Silver tipped wolf/Malamut I called Quatz - so when I saw this post, first thing I did was Save As... and try to watch it (ok, I'm way underpowered for HD: FP G4/1G iMac 800, QuickTime v. 704, OS X 10.4.5 & 17" Al G4/2GB Powerbook; still, i'd even settle for choppy playback) but I get that generic QT codec error that takes you to the QuickTime Component page:

<http://www.apple.com/quicktime/resources/components.html>

I'm already running every codec plugin in QT that makes sense, and stll get one error message that said the "fourcc codec "dvhc" was missing, but I can't find any ref to "dvhc".

Other than running on underpowered platforms what am I doing wrong? Any suggestions? I really want to see this footage.

Thanks and keep up the good 'wolf'!

David

[tlorenzo]

Amazing footage, Barry! Very inspirational... I might be getting an HVX a lot sooner than I originally thought - though I still have a lot to learn from my new DVX100B... In a year or two, maybe ;-)

Tony

[bgundu]

Hey Barry & Kevin


<http://www.apple.com/quicktime/resources/components.html>

I'm already running every codec plugin in QT that makes sense, and stll get one error message that said the "fourcc codec "dvhc" was missing, but I can't find any ref to "dvhc".

Other than running on underpowered platforms what am I doing wrong? Any suggestions? I really want to see this footage.

David

You need to have the DVCPro codec to play the video. It gets iinstalled by default with FCP. Check in the folder HD/Library/Quicktime to see if you have them.

[davidas]

You need to have the DVCPro codec to play the video. It gets iinstalled by default with FCP. Check in the folder HD/Library/Quicktime to see if you have them.

Thanks, bgundu!

I get it. It was a stupid question. Sorry ;º} The problem is that I've yet to upgrade to FCP HD, so of course there's no way that folder or codec could exist in my setup. Even if I could find the codec and put it in ~/Library/Quicktime along with all the other codecs, would it work? The only refs I found for DVCPRO codecs at fourcc.org were for two Matrox codecs.

On the bright side, I hope to be upgrading to FCP HD Studio (vs. 6?) soon. In the meantime, is there any other route? I saw the still that was posted. (I think by SalaTar). Amazing.

David

[bgundu]

Thanks, bgundu!

I get it. It was a stupid question. Sorry ;º} The problem is that I've yet to upgrade to FCP HD, so of course there's no way that folder or codec could exist in my setup. Even if I could find the codec and put it in ~/Library/Quicktime along with all the other codecs, would it work? The only refs I found for DVCPRO codecs at fourcc.org were for two Matrox codecs.

On the bright side, I hope to be upgrading to FCP HD Studio (vs. 6?) soon. In the meantime, is there any other route? I saw the still that was posted. (I think by SalaTar). Amazing.

David


David,

You should be able to watch the compressed clip just fine with regular Quicktime installed:

http://10framehandles.com/movies/wolvesHD_720_Hi001.mov

[Barry_Green]

Uploaded a second short wolves clip to Mochouinard; hopefully he'll post the link here. This second clip is 24p at 24p so it's real-time, not slow-mo...

[bgundu]

Hey Barry.

What's going on with that Wolf fighting clip. There seems to be some strange frame blending. Seems like the clip was retimed.

[Barry_Green]

Is the clip up? Are you referring to the .mov or the .mp4 or both?

[bgundu]

There is no official link yet. I just snooped around the directory. The strangeness is in both clips.

[SalaTar]

HERE (http://hvx200.moctel.com/Users/Barry_Green/)
both clips have been retimed and reworked......

[thefilmaddict]

I like this footage. Great subject matter and slow motion is perfect for this type of shot. great work!

[n8ture]

My bad.
It's actually a 1080 24p clip but I'm starting to slip from lack of sleep and put it in on some other timeline.
I think it might have even been a 720p/24p timeline.

I can rework it later if you want to get the best possible image.

I have so much to learn with the HVX. I'm coming off of using a Sony PD-150 and I had none of this to deal with.

Ok, I gotta try and get some sleep.:)

[bgundu]

No worries kevin. Get some sleep. Make sure you don't fall asleep next to any carcass! I appreciate the amazing clips you've graciously provided.

[n8ture]

Can someone walk me through the settings I need for 1080 24p?
Obviously I don't know what the heck I'm doing here.
I hate to cause a stir that the HVX isn't up to snuff because i rendered this stuff out on the wrong settings.
I was messing with pull down order and everything else and I think I made it look worse.
If someone lets me know what presets and settings to use for the footage I'll try and get some new stuff uploaded tomorrow night or so.
Ok, I'm going to bed now.

[davidas]

10(os)X, bgundu,

I did just that!

David

[davidas]

Can someone walk me through the settings I need for 1080 24p?
Obviously I don't know what the heck I'm doing here.


Kevin (and Barry),

Wow. Thanks for sharing your amazing footage. I wouldn't say you don't know what your doing, man. On the contrary, your footage is inspiring. You put us right there. Storytelling with a capital 'Eye'! I could only see your work compresssed, but the little I saw made me want to see more. And save some more till I can afford the PAL version. As I wrote earlier, I became very close to a half wolf. Named Quatz (Hopi for Friend) he ate some poison intended for a pack of abandoned wild dogs in Val Verde, California - but not before he kept them clear of our corner of the valley. So your samples are doubly welcome, not only because it's great to see and talk about these animals, but especially for the tech content! Looking forward...

All the best,

David

[TimurCivan]

Does anyone else see that Chromatic Aberration? Somehow I get the feeling that if this was a JVC clip it's all anyone would be talking about.

Yea but on the JVC everythign that wasnt dead center would be out of focus. at least the HVX lens maintains focus to the edge. and yes it is all purple on th wolfs leg. but like, its at full telephoto, and the camera costs 5,999 MSRP. I think its acceptable.



im just sad because i cant have a HVX....... or even a HC1... Aww im pathetic! i cant even afford HDV.....


wolves look great though!

[dregenthal]

stunning!

thank you Kevin, bgundu, and barry.

[Bono]

Barry --

Are you using the +7 setting on Detail Coring in your shooting? Or was that advice particular to the wolves project?

[im.thatoneguy]

I know photoshop CS 2 has tools to correct chromatic abboration. Is there any sort of video alternative available?

[firstsingle]

Hey Barry. I'm on a Mac. What kind of codec did you use? Quicktime doesn't have the proper plug-in to play it.

[bgundu]

Hey Barry. I'm on a Mac. What kind of codec did you use? Quicktime doesn't have the proper plug-in to play it.


FCP installs the DVCPro HD codecs. For now you'll have to do with the Sorenson version of this clip :(

[firstsingle]

OK. Thanks.

[MOVIE STUNTS]

Wow! This is truly amazing footage, when and whare can I see the completed project?

[BenB]

I get a page not found error...

[n8ture]

I got an email from my hosting company saying in order to serve me better they've moved my site to a new server. Obviously, the clip didn't make it to the new server.
I'll see if I can find that clip and re-upload it. If not, maybe I'll upload some wolf footage that even Barry hasn't seen yet. :)

[Barry_Green]

DO IT! :) New footage! New footage!

:thumbsup:

[petelms]

Ou my god, can´t believe I missed this topic in a hurry. God dammet this looks so gooood! I just bought a new Sony´s LCD-tv and this looks excellent on it! Truly amazing 8 secs of footage! Couldn´t believe my eyes when I first swithced the tv on...keep posting us these! Thanks. Damn, I wish I get those P2 cards soon! :dankk2:

How on earth you got so close to the wolves!!! :Drogar-Evil(DBG): Maybe I have to find a finnish bear and get some footage and then run...! :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

[MOVIE STUNTS]

More footage would be awesome!!!!

[n8ture]

If you run or do remote filming like I've been doing, your camera gets knocked over. See "The Most Horrifying HVX Footage Ever!" :)

Do you want me to stick wth wolf footage or upload something else?

Black bears and grizzly are really happening now in Yellowstone if anyone is interested. :)

[Justyn]

Kevin... Do you know a trapper/videographer who works trapping bears in Montana in the summer by the name of Derek Reich. He has a company called Zöoprax Productions www.zooprax.com I worked a job with him not too long ago. Nice guy and I know he goes up to Montana to trap and shoot grizzlies...


I too can't wait to see somemore footie...

[BenB]

Ok, the PC version works. But the Mac version is sill off line, I guess. The PC version runs on my Mac just fine, though. Very nice!!!!!

[MOVIE STUNTS]

I would like to see some more wolf footage..., but what else do you got?

[n8ture]

Ok,
Here's a clip that even Barry hasn't seen yet :)
Once the big dogs of the pack have fed, the Omegalwolf will come in for the scraps. You can tell she's really nervous.
Anyway, I had time to switch from 60fps to 24fps so it's one of the few clips shot at normal speed.
It's about 111 meg or so in size.
Hopefully, it's in focus. I haven't seen it on anything but my Mac laptop :)
http://www.silverphoenixllc.com/wolf24fps.mov

[Justyn]

Amazing footage Kevin... Thanks for sharing.. The colors are stunning and the snow is just the topper.. Sweet. Graphic and like the fast shuter...


It certainly is in focus. How far away are you while this is going on?


Thanks!

[n8ture]

Hey Justyn
I figured I was zoomed in all the way so however many yards away you need to get a wolf that size, that's how far away I was. :)

I also have some footage where I just stuck the HVX down in the snow and crawled away.

I missed wolves taking down an elk right on the road in Yellowstone by a day. A friend of mine shot the whole thing from his car.

I sure like the 60fps stuff allot better. Just adds some sense of grace and beauty at 60fps that 24fps doesn't capture.

I find that whenever I encounter wildlife, I almost always shoot at 60fps.

I also find that 60fps kind of smoothes out my handheld stuff too.
I was shooting clouds as I flew into Montana on my last trip at 60fps. It looks like a stabilized shot. When I shot some at 24fps, it looks allot less smooth.

[MOVIE STUNTS]

It's kind of a soft focus, but it's still sharp especially on the wolf and the carcass. BTW It looks great on my apple cinema display so don't worry. thanks for sending the clip:)

[hvx_germanboy]

Harrr..HELP Kevin,

i just wanna see your wounderfull animal violence, but it seems as it is for macusers only, is that possible?

I got a quicktime and a vlc-player, and they play quite everything from this forum, if its not for mac only...!

Looking forward to a pc compression!

[n8ture]

hvx_germanboy,
I just have a Mac so maybe someone else here can convert it to something for PC users.
I just save it as a QuickTime file straight from FCP and upload it.

Movie Stunts,

I had the detail set to -3 so maybe that's why it looks soft but still sharp if THAT makes any sense. :)

I'll see if I can upload something more recent as the wolf footage was shot back in February.

[maverickstunts]

Harrr..HELP Kevin,

i just wanna see your wounderfull animal violence, but it seems as it is for macusers only, is that possible?

I got a quicktime and a vlc-player, and they play quite everything from this forum, if its not for mac only...!

Looking forward to a pc compression!
I think the problem is that you don't have the latest Quicktime. YOU MUST have Quicktime 7 or later to play the files. It is the problem in nearly every case of PC users problems. They all say they have Quicktime but even when I send the link to a client, until they actually download and install they can't look at the footage.

[awh10]

I have the latest Quicktime and cannot play the file either so I'm pretty sure that isn't the issue.

[hvx_germanboy]

Its definitly not a quicktime issue, so maybe one of the MAC-ANGELS could convert this clip, and maybe PM Kevin to host it as well?

Would be great guys...looking forward!

[n8ture]

Well, if someone figures it out let me know if there's anything I can do on my end in the future.
Here's the info off of the file if that helps anyone...
http://www.silverphoenixllc.com/wolfinfo.jpeg

[Haakon]

PCs can't play DVCPRO HD files in Quicktime. :) It's been probably the biggest problem with the HVX footage since the release. You just have to convert it to H.264 or wmv so that it's playable on the PC platform. Unfortunately this does mean more compression for the footage, but at least it can stay 720 and be shared across the board.

If no one gets to it before me, I have access to a Mac and a PC and I can upload a converted clip tonight, but it will probably be a good 8 or 9 hours before I'll be able to do that.

[n8ture]

Ok, I'm uploading a H.264 version. It's the same URL and filename. I'm just overwriting the original file.
I don't think it looks as good or as smooth as the original but I guess that's the way it has to be.
It did shrink it down to about 87 meg though.
It'll be a bit before it's done uploading as my DSL connection is only about 18k/sec

[MOVIE STUNTS]

Can't wait to see it!

[n8ture]

Should be good to go

[sonnyboo]

I had the pleasure of seeing a lot of this Wolf footage at the INDIEMEET in Las Vegas when Barry showed it off, and even on a standard def TV, it looked freakin' AMAZING. I'm sold on this camera & HD.

[Justyn]

Kevin... Thanks so much for sharing and for the inspiration... What are you buidling this footage up for? Doc? Short? Stock footage? I'd love to see whatever you finish up with...


Take care