What's the Best price found for a XLH1?

[PappasArts]

What's the Best price found for a XLH1?

[mgalvan]

After much searching on this, prices seem pretty much set on $8999.00 anywhere you go (legit places, anyway).

I bought mine's from B&H but was able to get a corporate discount from one of the higher up people there ...

[PappasArts]

Thanks Galvin. That really sucks! If I go the H1 I have to spend another 1,300 hundred for the 16x manual lens because I hate the free spinners!

Well if I do go for the H1 it's 8k or less. Truth is if Canon was competitive and sold these at 6,500, they would gobble up a lot more of the market very fast.

B&H had it for 8,499 at some point!


Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }
XLH1 and HVX200 frame grabs and news here:
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts




After much searching on this, prices seem pretty much set on $8999.00 anywhere you go (legit places, anyway).

I bought mine's from B&H but was able to get a corporate discount from one of the higher up people there ...

[Barry_Green]

Yeah, I was very surprised when B&H lowered the price. I had been told by Canon that all dealers everywhere were *required* to sell it at $8999 and not one penny less.

Looks like B&H might have gotten their wrists slapped for lowering the price because they're back at $8999.

I doubt you're going to find it for any less anywhere. Maybe you could work a deal where they give you a really low price on the manual lens or something as a package, but for the XLH1 it's a requirement (or at least it was) that they not discount it even a penny.

[PappasArts]

Barry, the price is over inflated IMHO. I forgot to mention that since HDV is an acquisition only format for me, if I were to get the H1 I would either have to get the Blackmagic or AJA card adding another 700 to 1,300 to the cost to capture HDV playback via SDI into either card for realtime conversion into 1080 DVCproHD. So it becomes 11K easy with Cards and 16x lens. That's two HVX's or HD100's for god sakes!!! I like Canon, however if JVC can do it in the 5K range, Canon could have done the same thing.

Barry have you ever worked with the 60gig P2 reader? What's the chance in seeing that drop below a grand.



Yeah, I was very surprised when B&H lowered the price. I had been told by Canon that all dealers everywhere were *required* to sell it at $8999 and not one penny less.

Looks like B&H might have gotten their wrists slapped for lowering the price because they're back at $8999.

I doubt you're going to find it for any less anywhere. Maybe you could work a deal where they give you a really low price on the manual lens or something as a package, but for the XLH1 it's a requirement (or at least it was) that they not discount it even a penny.

[Barry_Green]

No chance anytime soon. I don't think it's designed to be marketed to us end users; I think it's designed specifically for network shooters.

I'm hoping they'll introduce a larger/less expensive one, but that's just a hope, I have no reason to expect that they're actually working on anything like that.

[Jack_Felis]

Also consider that no other camera in its price range has HD-SDI, yes, it is that big a deal.

[mmm]

Isn't this price fixing by Canon? In the UK, that is very illegal. Not so in the US?

[Elton]

Also consider that no other camera in its price range has HD-SDI, yes, it is that big a deal.

Having finally read comments from the pixelmonger, Scott Billups would seem to concur. The Jackpack is the feature that tipped me. It puts the H1 in a whole new realm of possibilities, but at the end of the day, the HDV is very good. I've tested SDI to DV100 with the Kona, and also rolled HDV, and compared the two with the same material. Very hard to discern a difference, (and sometimes the HDV actually looks better) even with fast moving objects. The only thing I've found that can stress the codec (ever so slightly) is rippling water scenes. But it's negligble at best. If you want to watch a movie with a magnification lens...it's not ideal. But we are talking about moving images...right? Still, if you have a codec challenging scene, there's always the live SDI to tap, which is pristine and motion-artifact free.

[Barry_Green]

Isn't this price fixing by Canon? In the UK, that is very illegal. Not so in the US?
From my understanding, yes it is and yes it should be. However, Canon's not the only one who does it. The entire Saturn network of car dealerships was launched under the notion that there would never be any haggling, all cars would be sold strictly at MSRP. And Bose, IINM, requires all dealers to adhere strictly to MSRP.

The whole "MAP" concept was supposed to address this; it was to let the manufacturers protect their perceived value (by limiting their dealers to a "minimum advertised price", or MAP); while allowing the dealers to sell at whatever they felt like. So there's MSRP (manufacturer's suggested retail price); there's the MAP (minimum advertised price), and then there's the real price the dealer is willing to sell at.

Sometimes on B&H you'll see "ask for a better price"; in those cases it's because B&H is willing to sell below MAP, but their franchise/dealer agreement requires them to not advertise below MAP.

But that's a different issue from price fixing. I don't know if it's legal or not, but even if it isn't, Canon's not the only one who does it.

[thisiswells]

Isn't this price fixing by Canon? In the UK, that is very illegal.
Have you heard of the Oppenheimer family or Diamond Trading Company? Price fixing is very much accepted in England! There's a really good book by Edward Jay Epstein called, "The Diamond Invention" that you may want to check out.

[mmm]

Have you heard of the Oppenheimer family or Diamond Trading Company? Price fixing is very much accepted in England! There's a really good book by Edward Jay Epstein called, "The Diamond Invention" that you may want to check out.

De Beers were actually fined a year or two ago for that.

Has anyone complained about this in the US? I took it up with a dealer in the UK and they said that they actually could give me a discount... I didn't really want to buy the camera, I was just testing.

[SPZ]

Apple does price fixing too, worldwide.

[MattC]

Here's how I understand it, but I could be wrong, better minds are free to correct me... When one company sets a price for their product it's not really what we in the States call "price fixing", I mean it is but not as it's usually thought of for legal purposes. When two or more companies in collusion establish a price for their near identical products then it IS price fixing as we usually think of it.

So if I'm Shell Oil and I establish a price for my gas at all my stations of $5 per gallon, technically that's not really price fixing. However if I call over to BP and we agree to BOTH sell our gas at $5 per gallon, then it is price fixing. The theory being that if only one of us is charging an outrageous price for our product, then market forces will take over and consumers, if they so desire, will be able to freely purchase the lower cost alternative. But if we fix the market in order to screw the consumer, essentially holding the consumer hostage, then that's a no no.

Matt

[jaegersing]

Hi Matt. If the manufacturer and the retailers are part of the same company, then the situation is simplified and your example would be more accurate. However, in this case, Canon are forcing their retailers to sell to the public at whatever price Canon dictates. In effect, there is collusion between all the retailers to fix the price, and this is supposed to be illegal. As Barry says, though, Canon is not the only company doing it.

Richard Hunter

[joelnet]

Hi Matt. If the manufacturer and the retailers are part of the same company, then the situation is simplified and your example would be more accurate. However, in this case, Canon are forcing their retailers to sell to the public at whatever price Canon dictates. In effect, there is collusion between all the retailers to fix the price, and this is supposed to be illegal. As Barry says, though, Canon is not the only company doing it.

Richard Hunter

Canon has every right to require dealers to stick with a particular price... that's not price fixing in the legal sense. The dealers, as a condition of having the privilege of being a dealer, voluntarily agree to do so in order to avoid price wars. If they don't their dealership can be revoked. This is a big benefit to small dealers.

If it was illegal Canon, Apple etc. would get slammed with a class action lawsuit. I don't see any lawsuits pending. It's almost silly to sit here and seriously argue that it's illegal. Do you guys really think these companies - with all their lawyers - would blatantly break the law in such an overt way? It defies reason.

Price fixing requires collusion between normally competing companies. Canon dealers are salespeople FOR Canon.

[Kidster]

I found this http://www.adorama.com/CAXLH1.html

is this too good to be true?

[mgalvan]

Say it aint so .... I'll be mad if it is indeed true as I just bought mine ...

I have done business with Adorama and they are very legit. I would think its real ...

[jaegersing]

I noticed that the warranty offered with this deal is from Adorama rather than Canon. Looks like it might be a parallel import, for what that's worth.

Richard Hunter

[Brian J. Harris]

Hello,

Joelnet and Mattc have this right on the money. This is not price fixing by Canon nor Apple. Mattc's example is spot on, and Joelnet sums it up really well with the last statement on that post.

[Benton]

I noticed that the warranty offered with this deal is from Adorama rather than Canon. Looks like it might be a parallel import, for what that's worth.

Richard Hunter

Yeah, it is "Grey market" camera
It's very hard for me as I am about to buy one & I live down the street from Adorama...!
But, Somehow I think I will go to Abel - it's 1000$ more but I want guaranteed backup.
It's a real hard decision to make

[mccutch]

Adorama MIGHT be okay, but don't be tempted by some of the other online bargains. Check out www.sheddingsomelight.com. They tell you who owns which online company (many of the smaller companies share the same owner.) They also show how these companies inflate their ratings with phony reviews.

They suggest that resellerratings.com is the most accurate review site (after searching many of them, I strongly agree) .

best

Jeff

[redindian]

Adorama MIGHT be okay



I've found Adorama as reputable as B&H..

[#include]

whats up with these prices ?

http://www.bwayphoto.com/product.asp?item=cnxlh1&l=BuyersEdge

http://www.preferredphoto.com/product.asp?id=cnxlh1&l=BuyersEdge

http://www.photosweep.com/Item_Details.asp?Item_ID=1446&tab=3

[Emanuel]

Yeah #include! If you go to bizrate.com there are a lot of other reputable suppliers and I'm thinking that crossing user reviews and some certified tools, it's the better way to check if the service is good or not. I'm not american but I know a lot of people that have been purchased via this sort of source without any problems. 'cause here in Europe the prices are higher and the euro worth 20% more according the variable rate, of course. Also 'cause to us the backup isn't possible to guarantee -- if there is it's irrelevant, my bet is as affordable as viable. And if goes well to us why not to you as well?

Any thoughts guys and gals (if out there too :Drogar-Love(DBG): ) ?

EDIT -- mccutch beat me with his post, helpful to any buyer, indeed (I didn't remember resellerratings.com but it is a great tool to any online customer -- I speak for myself!...)

[Emanuel]

Examples (see this):


http://www.bwayphoto.com/product.asp...1&l=BuyersEdge

http://www.preferredphoto.com/produc...1&l=BuyersEdgehttp://www.resellerratings.com/seller_rating_history.pl?id=1995


http://www.photosweep.com/Item_Details.asp?Item_ID=1446&tab=3http://www.resellerratings.com/seller11707.html



EDIT -- It's possible to be robbed in the web, as well, to find the best deal...or vice versa :furious3: :happy:

[Emanuel]

I've found Adorama as reputable as B&H..

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1759.html

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1914.html

Does it worth 1,000 bucks? Or not? Here is the question...

[#include]

Dose anybody have any info on Adorama's XL-H1 warranty. Its a two year warranty which is a year longer then canon's usa warranty. If a camera has a problem where do they go to get it fixed. Do they send it to canon ? how fast will the turn around be?

I am so close to making the jump.

[#include]

Dose anybody have any info on Adorama's XL-H1 warranty. Its a two year warranty which is a year longer then canon's usa warranty. If a camera has a problem where do they go to get it fixed. Do they send it to canon ? how fast will the turn around be?

I am so close to making the jump.


Adorama is getting the xl-h1 from japan. They claim the camera has zero hours of use ( is there a way to tell ?), and they only open the factory box to include a new manual and reset the menus to english.

The warranty is provided by mackcam.com. Dose any one know anything about mackcam.

I called MackCam customer service and they did verify that they serviced and supported the camera Adorama is selling. Any thoughts ?

[PappasArts]

PAY THE EXTRA GET THE USA VERSION! I CANCELED THE ADORAMA H1, AND BIT THE BULLET AND WENT WITH MY TRUSTED AND HAVE BEEN DOING BIZ WITH SINCE THE MID 90'S- PROMAX IN IRVINE.

My JVC Hd100 came from B&H and was returned to them the other day cause of SSE. However the XLH1 was Promax. I trust both, however Promax is a great company that will support you to the very end. That means everything to me. Promax.com is number one in my book...


OH and BTW, Canon does not need to lower that price one bit. It's worth every dime as a HD head after days of testing in the field. The 20x lens sucks arse becuase it lacks true manual control. That's a retarded lens to the max! IMHO------ However the HD1080P/I XLH1 head is worth all of it's $9.000 thousand dollars. An SDI option on F900's is costly, so to have it on this XLH1 that does 1080P/1080i 60i-30F-24F is amazing. However please stick with reputable dealers like one's that advertise here on DVXuser or others. Don't try to get bottom dollar. You want the support, trust me.

Also can someone recomend a Camera insurance provider? As well does Canon offer exstended warranties? Or do we have to go third party for that?

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }
XLH1 and HVX200 frame grabs and news here:
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts

[starway2001@mac.com]

Fully agree with Pappas here!

ProMax is one of the best companies to go through. I just bought I kickin' PowerMac system decked out with a DeckLink card, loads a RAM and hard drive space with dual monitors and they took very good care of me. System came fully setup and tweaked by Promax and it performed like a dream on a project I just finished -- Shadow Falls (http://www.starwaypictures.com/shadowfalls/trailers.html) (Shot with an F900)

I'm buying my H1 from Birns & Sawyer mainly because I wanted to rig it out with a matte box, iris rods, follow focus, Sachtler DV8 tripod system, Microforce, etc. I dropped a ton of cash on it, but I'm using it to shoot several narrative projects this year so it was a no brainer.

When Scott Billups pronounced that the H1 was within 90% of F900 quality, that was what tipped the scales for me. It's much better for someone like me to have constant ready access to a camera then to rent and insure massive packages like the F900. Don't get me wrong. I loved my experience with the F900 and I'm very happy with the picture quality. But the H1 gets me close to that target and I OWN it and I can shoot whenever and whatever I want without worrying about pickups, dropoffs, etc.

This is going to be fun!

[#include]

Just ordered from ProMax 8550. Great service and support.

[PappasArts]

I'm glad to see people supporting Promax. Were better off that Promax is there.

[Kholi]

Pappas ended up choosing the XLH1? Sorry, I might be horribly late on this one.

[Elton]

He's put his money into both cameras, and if you want to know more about it, read the "Pappas Ship Jump" thread.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=48219

[rmarq26]

Check on www.cinetechonline.com