Contest Delivery Requirements [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Jarred Land

01-24-2006, 11:29 PM

Well its good to see everyone coming along.. just as a heads up for all you done already and are trying to figure out how to get your project in, its gonna be really easy this time...

All films must be encoded to mpeg2 format, with a 8M average bitrate. These will be uploaded to the server, no sending in DVD's etc.

We will batch encode all films for the online viewing from the mpeg2 files.

Brandon Rice

01-25-2006, 12:15 AM

Awesome. When will you give details on uploading, etc.? Also, what if the audio is seperate from the mpeg2?

Jarred Land

01-25-2006, 12:30 AM

audio is to be embedded in the mpeg3 stream.

upload instructions will come after the deadline.

Brandon Rice

01-25-2006, 12:34 AM

Cool man, sounds good! Thanks for the info.:thumbsup:

GenJerDan

01-25-2006, 02:34 AM

upload instructions will come after the deadline.

Um...shouldn't they come before?

GenJerDan

01-25-2006, 02:37 AM

We will batch encode all films for the online viewing from the mpeg2 files.

Encoded to which? I've found that I have to do things differently depending on the target; quicktime, wmv, actual DVD for TV viewing.

THX-1138

01-25-2006, 03:17 AM

I'm confused...we're to turn in the files for judging after the deadline?

If so, when does everybody need to turn their projects in?

Also...when I use Apple's Compressor to make my mpeg2 it usually does not include audio. That is in a seperate file...is there a way to make the mpeg2 contain audio? Can anyone help me who uses FCP.

Thanks

Kip

smelni

01-25-2006, 05:47 AM

Can you give exact frame size requirements - can we send in letterboxed and/or full frame 16:9?

krestofre

01-25-2006, 06:47 AM

Even if your compressor program makes and elementary stream (a file for video and a file for audio) it's easy to turn that into a program stream (one file that contains both) with a muxing program. Just google for one. There are a lot of free ones. Your compressor program probably has muxing capabilities already.

But I must echo GenJerDan's comment. Encoing is like alchemy. What settings work for one film won't work for the next. A batch encode for viewing seems like an awfully broad process. Plus, going from film to MPEG-2 to streaming is an extra generation loss which has me concerned about quality. Whatever you guys say goes, but I thought I'd voice these concerns.

Chris

Brandon Rice

01-25-2006, 07:47 AM

I tend to agree Chris. I'd rather compress a quicktime myself. To keep my quality up.

lucidz

01-25-2006, 08:05 AM

Um...shouldn't they come before?

Yeah I'm confused, we need to have the films done before feb 1, but when are we uploading them to you? Do we perhaps have another day or two??? :D

THX-1138

01-25-2006, 12:21 PM

I figured out how to make an mpeg2 file that contains the audio.

My next problem is size.

My movie is a little over 5 min and my file ends up being 139mb I read that 60mb was the max. Is that true? How do I cut down my size to meet the requirements?

Any suggestions?

Kip

krestofre

01-25-2006, 12:43 PM

I believe that 60 MB limit was for streaming files. I don't imagine that the same limit will apply to "source" MPEG-2 files that Jarred will convert to something streaming friendly.

Just assuming here ... and we know what that does. :)

Brandon Rice

01-25-2006, 12:44 PM

Yeah, I'd assume the same thing. Wait on an official word from someone.

GenJerDan

01-25-2006, 01:20 PM

And if you start uploading that 139 mb file now, it might be finished by the time it's needed...

arielman

01-25-2006, 02:35 PM

I'll try it ..having issues even with shrinking to a WMV file using an AVI file ..My video has jitter problems and am using the same settings as the Zombie short .
Q7 only makes a MOV in 4.3 ( unsqueezed) new to Q7.

I'll try a test tomorrow and see what happens .
Ian

wcs

01-25-2006, 02:42 PM

assuming ~200mb movies, here's some rough math

good cable modem (~50kb/s): 60 minutes
crappy dsl / capped cable (~15kb/s): 200 minutes
good dsl (~20kb/s): 160 minutes

That's not too horrible, especially since we spent so much time making the movies. An hour or three of uploading isn't a big deal to me. Some people might need to find a fast internet friend if they're especially capped, though.

GenJerDan

01-25-2006, 02:49 PM

Or an ISP that doesn't have a built-in "you've been connected long enough, time for a a reset" feature.

wcs

01-25-2006, 03:30 PM

Or an ISP that doesn't have a built-in "you've been connected long enough, time for a a reset" feature.

ouch. Indeed, that sucks. People might want to look into local wireless connections at coffee houses, etc. Never used them, but might be worth the time.

Good luck.

GenJerDan

01-26-2006, 05:57 AM

And I think we will ceratinly need more requirement info than just 8Mb.

I've never done any encoding to mpeg2 other than just using the presets in Vegas. I don't know what half the options mean. (Right off the bat, 8M is not an preset in the average. It's there for max, though. But if I put it in the "average" box, what do I put in the "max"?)

And are DVD-target presets even appropriate for web-delivery?

I'd really hate to spend 3 or 4 or 5 hours uploading, only to get an email a day later saying the film doesn't work.

Jarred Land

01-26-2006, 08:46 AM

this was just a little pre-info for people that actually understand what the hell they are doing.. the actual upload page will have more specific requirements.

We arnt gonna hold your hand though... i mean if you dont know how to make a mpeg2 file then you should really figure it out because its kinda an important thing to know.

Your files should be around 200+mb... this should be no problem for normal people to upload in a few hours.

Larry Rutledge

01-26-2006, 09:01 AM

this should be no problem for normal people...

Well, that eliminates most of the population on this board :evil:

Jarred Land

01-26-2006, 09:08 AM

ha ha touche my friend, touche :)

Larry Rutledge

01-26-2006, 09:21 AM

Thanks...you could help me stand out from these crowds of incompetents by giving me the title "a normal guy" under my name :happy:

Edited to add:

Sweet!!! Thanks :thumbsup:

Brandon Rice

01-26-2006, 09:59 AM

GenJerDan

01-26-2006, 10:16 AM

Well, no, actually. Not usually. And the few occasions when I did, it was just a matter of selecting the Main Concept preset then sending it off to DVD Arch.

But why should we know how to make DVDs? If I wanted DVDs made, I'd send the tape off to a pressing house. (And if they wanted anything done first to it, they tell me. In detail.)

Brandon Rice

01-26-2006, 10:21 AM

GenJerDan

01-26-2006, 10:31 AM

Oh, well, I guess I'm an exception then. I make a lot of DVD's and have continually tried to find the best settings to retain the most quality for the film. I think with a little online research most everyone can figure it out.

Sure they can.

But this isn't for DVD delivery (at least not at first). It's for web streaming. There's a difference.

Brandon Rice

01-26-2006, 10:34 AM

Right, but I'll use the same method of compressing an MPEG2 for this as I would for a DVD (except I'll use a program stream instead of an elementary stream). It'll retain the quality I'd have on a DVD, while being self-contained(audio in the same stream as the video).

arielman

01-26-2006, 01:17 PM

I tried this morning and mine comes in at 255mb and between 5.5 >8 M bitrate with 3o sec of footage left to add so I'm OK ...
Don't know about MPEG 3 though for audio, mine compresses audio at MPEG 2 .
Now if I did DIVX , the MPEG 3 is a go..

Tried creating another WMV file this morning and perfect ...55 mb with 30 sec of footage to add .

Ian

Shaun Patrick

01-27-2006, 12:39 PM

Maybe I missed something but has there been any official word on where to upload movies, yet?

Jarred Land

01-27-2006, 01:01 PM

yes... look a few posts back. Uploads will start after the deadline.

lucidz

01-27-2006, 01:26 PM

at what time will the upload screen become available, and at what time is the cut off for uploading the films?

Norm Sanders

01-28-2006, 01:07 PM

Here's what I'm understanding by what Jarred's said in this thread:

Just render your files out, as you would for DVD, by doing a MPEG2 WITH audio, simply instead of having a seperate AC3 file. He's estimating for a 6 minute movie, that it'll be around 200+ MB in size. So, for those of you who are still questioning the 60MB maximum for WMV, QT, etc. forget about it. You won't be submitting those.

We'll send in the MPEG2's, with stereo audio encoded into the file, which they'll not only use for the DVD's (saves us cost, additional time, etc.), but they'll use those for batch rendering out for the streaming files, which I'm assuming is going to be FLASH, based on what he said about the new quantum server, streaming, protecting the work, etc.

The downside of the streaming is that we won't be able to load the films onto our laptops, etc. to watch later (so I'll have to buy a wireless router to put in my house now :evil: :thumbsup: ), it'll also make it interesting for those of us who want to watch the film several times before judging ... as it may make it difficult to pull the same film up before judging ... I'm not sure. On the flip side, it's a smart business decision, due to the fact that if people can't DOWNLOAD the films, they'll be more likely to want to buy a DVD set when it's all done.

Also, as far as the generation loss from MPEG2 to another format (i.e. FLASH), I don't think it'll be very noticeable. While there is SOME loss, I've done it before from MPEG2 to WMV, etc. an the loss is not that much & fine to live with. If nothing else, I've noticed the re-render tends to be a bit darker, with more crushed blacks, etc.

Dan, you were asking how to do this in VEGAS. When you go to render, select the DVD Architect 24P NTSC Widescreen Video Stream option. Then go into custom, then audio, and simply select INCLUDE AUDIO STREAM. That's it.

Norm Sanders

01-28-2006, 01:13 PM

Jarred, hopefully with your VEGAS background, you can answer this one:

When rendering out to MPEG2 in Vegas, the user has the option under CUSTOM, VIDEO, to select the OUTPUT TYPE with a drop down box. It defaults to DVD, which the help section states is a DVD Compatible MPEG2 file, but one of the other options is MPEG2, which the help file states as "General MPEG2 video".

Which would you want us to select? I don't see how there'd be much of a difference, but I'm guessing the DVD one would be best for the DVD, and the MPEG2 option would be best for anything else, such as rendering for web delivery, etc.

Thoughts?

THX-1138

01-28-2006, 01:34 PM

Thanks,

My mpeg2 came in at under 200mb so I'll await the upload instructions.

Good Luck everybody. Can't wait to see all the films.

Kip

pastywhiteboy

01-28-2006, 02:01 PM

Thanks,

My mpeg2 came in at under 200mb so I'll await the upload instructions.

Good Luck everybody. Can't wait to see all the films.

Kip

If your mpeg2 came in at under 200mb, either your short is around 3 minutes long or you aren't encoding at 8mbits. You may have to rerender at an average of 8mbits.

GenJerDan

01-28-2006, 02:30 PM

Dan, you were asking how to do this in VEGAS. When you go to render, select the DVD Architect 24P NTSC Widescreen Video Stream option. Then go into custom, then audio, and simply select INCLUDE AUDIO STREAM. That's it.

That's what I'm doing until told differently.

But what about setting it to 8MB average? Then set the max to 9.8MB? Or leave the Max at 8MB, too? (That'd make it CBR-ish, wouldn't it? If the average and the Max were the same?)

Too many damn variables in there. I'm not concerned about the ability for the DVD to be made, but wonder what the streaming software would like best.

And, just for fun, should we apply a Broadcast Safe filter to the render? Or leave it webable and they'll safe it before burning the DVD?

Norm Sanders

01-28-2006, 02:39 PM

OOH, good question on the broadcast safe ... Jarred?

I'm also unsure about the 8MB average question, as far as how best to achieve it. You could either select CONSTANT bit rate, then plug your own number in, since the drop down defaults don't included that selection, or change all the variables to within around what you want.

THX-1138

01-28-2006, 07:05 PM

If your mpeg2 came in at under 200mb, either your short is around 3 minutes long or you aren't encoding at 8mbits. You may have to rerender at an average of 8mbits.

I guess I thought I had this thing licked.

In FCP when making a mpeg2 file you have two choices Target Bitrate and Max Bitrate when I put Target Bitrate to 8 my file jumps to around 384mb.

Do i just crank that down until I hit 250mb - ish?

Again, I have never dome this before. I usually use Comprossor to make my mpeg 2 files and a seperate audio file which I assemble in DVD Studio Pro.

Any FCP people out there who can set me strait?

Kip

Brandon Rice

01-28-2006, 07:59 PM

My file is coming out to 352 mb. with a constant bit rate of 8mb sec.

pastywhiteboy

01-28-2006, 08:50 PM

I guess I thought I had this thing licked.

In FCP when making a mpeg2 file you have two choices Target Bitrate and Max Bitrate when I put Target Bitrate to 8 my file jumps to around 384mb.

Do i just crank that down until I hit 250mb - ish?

Again, I have never dome this before. I usually use Comprossor to make my mpeg 2 files and a seperate audio file which I assemble in DVD Studio Pro.

Any FCP people out there who can set me strait?

Kip

If you're doing VBR, your target bitrate needs to be set at 8mbits and your max needs to be at 9.8mbits, and if you can set your minimum then keep that anywhere from 0.15mbits to 2mbits. If you want to avoid the hassle all together, just do CBR at 8mbits. 384mb actually sounds about right.

arielman

01-28-2006, 10:51 PM

I have Pinnacle Studio 10 ..This doesn't give me any option for Bitrate . It does give the option of both MPEG 2'S.... Re- DVD or normal MPEG2 .
Nero tells me it runs between 6>8 mbs and that is in VBR .

I think I really need Vegas 6 in the Nr future.
Ian

Norm Sanders

01-29-2006, 12:08 AM

So if 6 min. files are coming in at 380ish MB ... Jarred, do you want us to lower the bit rate, therefore lowering the quality, or do is this size of file okay for uploading/submission?

If you look back a page, and are still familiar with the Q I've got for you in Vegas (DVD vs. MPEG2 option) for rendering, I'd look forward to that too. Or anyone else who uses Vegas, for that matter.

Jarred Land

01-29-2006, 12:29 AM

yes sorry the 250mb size was a projection for the under 5 minutes of zomiefest.. since there is an extra minute 350mb is fine.

Dont worry about broadcast safe etc.

Evision, did you figure out your vegas problem?

Norm Sanders

01-29-2006, 12:32 AM

Oh I'm have a SERIOUS problem ... my system's choking on al the FX we're trying to do, and it ain't working. But this isn't the place for that, so I'll post it in the Vegas forum.

My Q for you, Jarred, was if you knew in the Vegas MPEG2 render options (when clicking on CUSTOM), if we should choose DVD or MPEG2 in the drop down box. I wouldn't think there was a difference, but the help menu makes it sounds like one version of MPEG2 is more DVD compatible, while the other is more generic MPEG for web, etc.

Thoughts?

Oh, and just to clarify, you're going to do a TV SAFE filter over everything when applying to the DVD? So we'll just focus for the web?

Brandon Rice

01-29-2006, 12:33 AM

yes sorry the 250mb size was a projection for the under 5 minutes of zomiefest.. since there is an extra minute 350mb is fine.

Dont worry about broadcast safe etc.

Cool, thanks! Rendering out what could very well be my completed submission! :thumbsup:

Brandon Rice

01-29-2006, 12:36 AM

Norm, I know that in the program I use for compression, Sorenson Squeeze, the DVD default is not correct if you want a progressive 16:9 file. I had to create a custom setting for an MPEG2.

EditPhish

01-29-2006, 12:39 AM

Cool, thanks! Rendering out what could very well be my completed submission! :thumbsup:

Same here Briceman!

I do have a question, and call it another newbie one...

When I view the mpeg-2 on my computer (through quicktime) I see horizontal banding during lots of motion. Normal?

Also, my colors look great on the TV we're using to monitor (and hasn't been a problem compared to other TVs in the past), but on the computer (as mpeg-2), not so much... a little washed out (not quite as contrasty as it should be). Is this typical of the mpeg-2 format viewed on a computer screen, or do you guys do color correction different for internet viewing or what? I know it sounds like a stupid question, but this is the FIRST time we're putting a movie on the net... every other project has been TV-viewed only.

Thanks!

Jarred Land

01-29-2006, 12:41 AM

brice, try and make your mpeg a 24p file.. it sounds like you are doing a 60i mpeg2.

Brandon Rice

01-29-2006, 12:43 AM

brice, try and make your mpeg a 24p file.. it sounds like you are doing a 60i mpeg2.

I think I am. My setting are correct in Sorenson. Rendering it out progressive, not lower field, etc. I think I'm doing it correctly. :undecided

Brandon Rice

01-29-2006, 12:50 AM

Here are my settings:

Video Output: MPEG2
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 16:9
Field Encoding: Progressive
Data Rate: 8000 kbs.
Method: Constant Bit Rate
Format: NTSC
I Frame Rate: 6 Frames

Kaz

01-29-2006, 01:45 AM

Question:

Since we're uploading the actual DVD file now, are we including our normal full credits even if the film is 6 min without them? You guys just gonna chop 'em off for the download version, or what?

Also, what do you think about letting people who have been on the board for more than a year vote? I've been on this board nearly 2 years AND I'm submitting a film but I can't vote because of my measley 50 posts. Dang it, that just ain't right...

Norm Sanders

01-29-2006, 12:52 PM

Kaz, the 100 vote limit does have a good reason. Not to direct this at you, but someone could be on the board for 3-4 years, and only have 10 posts vs. someone else who's only been on the board for 4-5 months but has 500 posts. Granted, while there could be many posts out of that 500 that are just chit-chat, of the two members, who do you think has instilled more into the community? So it's not about length of time, so much as it is contributions.

But, VERY good question on the DVD files ... as I kind of thought that the DVD might have members' long cuts of their films, if they wanted. Then again, if someone WON, and their long cut actually would have brought the film down, then that wouldn't make sense to have it on the DVD when the it's supposed to be a compilation of the festival submissions ...

... so I think I just answered my own question ... DVD will likely be the festival submissions only. Will BTS material still be submitted later?

FabioRafael

01-29-2006, 03:05 PM

Let me see if I understood the uploading process, January 31th is not the real dead line for we will be only uploading our movies someday after it. Then January 31th is only a date for you to know when your movie should be finished. Please, someone aswer that for me!!! As English is not my mother tongue I sometimes have the feeling I am not understanding the rules of the festival. Thanks.

Jarred Land

01-29-2006, 05:31 PM

ok.. FTP server is ready to start accepting the entries. someone PM me if your ready to test the upload process.

Filenames should be Title-Username-Realname.mpg

So for example Scidelicious-DVXusername-Joeblow.mpg

There will be a page with the FTP info on the 31st where you agree to the rules then get the FTP upload info.

All uploads gotta be 6minutes. If you have an extended version with credits you would like to have for the DVD, upload it as Scidelicious-DVXusername-Joeblow-DVD.mpg so i know that you want that one on the DVD.

Remember.. mpg files should be 24p anamorphic.

Jarred Land

01-29-2006, 05:33 PM

smelni

01-29-2006, 05:37 PM

when you say 24p anamorphic - do you mean letterbox or full frame or either?

Norm Sanders

01-29-2006, 05:42 PM

16x9. You can mask it to 2.35:1, etc. but the file HAS to be 16:9/anamorphic

smelni

01-29-2006, 05:50 PM

ok - i got it figured out - thanks

GenJerDan

01-29-2006, 05:51 PM

With or without pulldown flags? :) It probably doesn't matter, but which would you prefer?

GenJerDan

01-29-2006, 06:36 PM

Oh...and what about BTS stuff? You still want that? Or will that be later under separate cover?

THX-1138

01-29-2006, 07:22 PM

If I shot letterbox how do I make the anamorphic part of the film requirement?

I just don't want my film to be stretched out or squished because of my ignorance on the subject.

Any Final Cut people who cam write me a quick note?

Thanks,

Kip

arielman

01-29-2006, 07:29 PM

oh and as for the deadline. Jan 31st is a soft deadline. The FTP will be open for a few days until everyone gets thier file downloaded. Im not a nazi and dont do the "if its not in by 12:01am your DQ'd". This is a festival for the community by the community so things are pretty loose... we wont hate you if your a day late.

Thanks Jarred , Still doing some final editing and just found out may have to do a very small shot tomorrow .

I also must work 3 , 12 hr shits , Mon>Wed ..not much time I'm afraid .

Ian

Brandon Rice

01-30-2006, 07:46 AM

Just finished uploading my submission. How'd it work Jarred? I will be uploading the DVD version in a few days. Still need to finish a credit roll, etc. at the end.

bena

01-30-2006, 08:31 AM

I put a widescreen matt of 1.66 on my 4:3 footage, would that work or do I need to change it to another aspect ratio?

pabloabad

01-30-2006, 01:00 PM

Jarred, I have a doubt. My movie is in spanish and subtitled in english. Do I put the titles INTO the movie or as optional DVD subtitles?

Thanks,
Pablo

THX-1138

01-30-2006, 06:46 PM

I put a widescreen matt of 1.66 on my 4:3 footage, would that work or do I need to change it to another aspect ratio?

I'm in the same boat....you need to change the aspect ratio as well.

In FCP you change the ratio to 16x9 and then you crop the output of Compressor. This will yeild a "squished" movie with no bars.

As I understand it...when the film is batch processed for viewing it will stretch it out, that's where the anamorphic part kicks in, and your filll will look as you shot it - just no bars.

A quick test in a DVD authoring program will show you what I mean.

If I'm off base, please someone let ue/us know.

Kip

Norm Sanders

01-30-2006, 06:51 PM

Pablo, you're going to want to put the titles INTO the movie, at least if you want the majority of the audience to know what's going on for the festival/judging part.

As for the DVD, I don't know if Jarred's going to want to put that much work into the authoring, as he'd have to add those seperate tracks, etc. into the authoring section ... but that's his call.

pabloabad

01-30-2006, 07:01 PM

Thanks, Norm
I have more problems. My DVX is the PAL version, so it records at 25p instead of 24p. I'm trying to downconvert the frame rate in FCP, but it appears to simply drop the 25th frame, putting a little cut every second. I don't like that. Is there any way to fix this? Can I send it 25p?
Thanks
Pablo

bena

01-30-2006, 07:14 PM

Hmm, I dont know that I can remove the widescreen bars, I sent my FCP project to a friend to render out the effects with filters I don't own.

I think its WAY to late in the game for things like this to not have been known and published. I guess mine won't be anamorphic...

Norm Sanders

01-30-2006, 07:55 PM

Unfortunately, it's been published from the very first day (Nov 1st or before) that it HAD to be 16x9/anamorphic, and it's a sticky at the top of the Sci-Fest forum/section: http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=39467

BrianV

01-30-2006, 07:58 PM

actually, in that post it says "either squeezed or letterboxed" and includes no information on the file exported file.

that, or i'm blind. possibly blind.

macgregor

01-30-2006, 08:03 PM

EditPhish

01-30-2006, 08:08 PM

The Rules:

* Use a DVX100 or HVX200, shoot 24p and 16x9 (either squeeze or letterbox)

Doesn't say anything about anamorphic on the page you sent.

Brandon Rice

01-30-2006, 08:25 PM

There is a misunderstanding here about the aspect ratio and delivery format.

The thing is that 16:9 applies both to a format and to an image aspect ratio.

BUT (i think) the dvxusers guys want a 16:9 mpeg2 format video, which obviously makes the video to have an aspect ratio of 16:9 or more (2:1 or 2:40).

Yes, you are right, it is a 16:9 mpeg2 file that is needed. The method to do this is very simple, it just requires a bit of research for each individual, and I think they can take the time to figure it out.

BrianV

01-30-2006, 08:25 PM

Right on. It doesn't, but for the sake of making sure, I'm encoding it as a 16x9 file anyhow... but I hope those who are already on the wire have the option of sending it in as a 4X3 since the sticky doesn't mention the finished format.

Or... I'm blind. Still a possibility.

Hope no one is running into any walls. Very excited about seeing everyone's :)

EditPhish

01-30-2006, 08:32 PM

Brandon Rice

01-30-2006, 08:49 PM

Briceman... not for nothin, but I've been reading about this stuff for like 48 hours straight. EVERY method I've tried introduces significant quality loss. Maybe Avid does a stupendous job for you, but I don't HAVE Avid.

It's a little offensive to act as though we're stupid if we can't figure this out. I have read too much about aspect ratios and encoding in the last two days and even called a friend of a friend in the video production business. NO ONE but you has said there is no quality loss.

If someone want to explain the steps to actually get this done without ending up with pixelated or soft edges, I'm certainly open to hear it.

Hey, I'm really sorry if I was offensive, I don't mean to be, and I understand about researching it. I spent a few months trying and eventually just forgot about it, then when faced with it again, I asked someone more knowledgable than I in export/compression. Also, when compressing an MPEG2 you will always lose quality from your original file. It's the nature of compression. But, like I said before, I have never been able to obtain a better resolution than the method I've posted that was given to me by krestofre. Best of luck to you. :thumbsup: My advice would be to find someone who is proficint in FC and pick their brain on compression.

Beat Takeshi

01-30-2006, 10:12 PM

so .m2p is what the final output file should be right?

EditPhish

01-30-2006, 10:12 PM

I know there's quality loss in compression. I'm stretching before compressing, and then compressing both files (stretched and unstretched) the same way... and I can see the quality difference very clearly.

Everything I've read about Final Cut either a) talks about stretching/distorting which I've done with not-so-great results... or b) Software called Compressor, which I do not have (and you can't buy by itself).

I have a friend who's pretty proficient in FCP and have been trying to call him... will try more tomorrow.

Beat Takeshi

01-30-2006, 10:24 PM

My rendered Mpeg (m2p) file plays choppy but the audio is fine. hmmmmmm. I used a preset in pro coder too. I wonder.....

edit: ok so i should have googled before deleting the file. m2p is procoders mpeg and all i had to do is get a player...

Brandon Rice

01-30-2006, 10:30 PM

Be careful when using preset's. Check all your settings twice to be sure it's rendered right.

Norm Sanders

01-31-2006, 12:23 AM

To take care of the whole stretching issue, we took the LONG route. We uprezzed all the frames with Photozoom Pro to 1280 wide ... we're then importing that back into the NLE so when it does the slight stretch, it doesn't effect our image, as it's already shrunk down to fit in the 720 wide project (but with HD pixel/size). It's a pain, but worth the end result, we think.

penfever

01-31-2006, 06:17 AM

So, I figured out how to output the CBR and all in Compressor, but I'm still a little hazy on this merging audio/video streams. Can somebody clear up how to join the two for me?

BrianV

01-31-2006, 06:33 AM

BitViceHelper is your friend:

http://www.innobits.se/pubdown/BitViceHelper.sit

At least it worked for me. Actual mileage may vary.

Oh, and if anyone knows a good reason NOT to use this program, let me know. Getting close to the edge here. :)

THX-1138

01-31-2006, 09:51 AM

Thanks Brian,

I used that progream and it worked well I think...how did you test it? I cant seem to open a .mpg file with anything I've got .....any suggestions. I just want to make sure it looks the way it should before I send it off.

Thanks

Kip

EditPhish

01-31-2006, 10:32 AM

THX - I used bitvice (and the helper app) too... you need to buy the mpeg-2 playback component from Apple ... (it's like $20)
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/mpeg2/
Then you can test the file.

Envision... How many hours did the photozoom thing take.. I've considered that route, but was afraid of the time it would take...

lucidz

01-31-2006, 10:59 AM

How long does it take to encode to mpeg2 from flat avi?

krestofre

01-31-2006, 11:18 AM

Depends on the machine and the software encoding. Anything 3 Ghz or better and you'll be close to real-time. I.E. a six minute film taking around 6 minutes to encode.

lucidz

01-31-2006, 12:17 PM

so wait, if we're outputing 16x9 thats ... 720x405?

My project is 720x480 :( :(

Bryan

01-31-2006, 01:04 PM

I shot 4:3 and masked in post. Now how the hell am I supposed to make this 16:9 anamorphic file in FCP4?

EditPhish

01-31-2006, 01:08 PM

I shot 4:3 and masked in post. Now how the hell am I supposed to make this 16:9 anamorphic file in FCP4?

Do you have Compressor? Apparently, in Compressor you can do the resizing you need to (crop out black bars, resize vertically)

If not... check out:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=45240

I've been in the same boat and researching for days how to accomplish resizing to 16:9 without losing quality... and I *don't* have Compressor.

Shaun Patrick

01-31-2006, 01:17 PM

Listen, set up a new FCP project with anamorphic settings. Before you import your 4x3 video, make sure that you're seeing the 16x9 black bars in the canvas window. Import your 4x3 video with or without letterboxing into the anamorphic timeline. The clip should "window box" (so it should retain the 4x3 aspect ratio)in the Canvas window--so it shouldn't stretch or anything like that to fit into the 16x9 bars. You should see some empty space on either side of the video. Now if you haven't already added your widescreen matte, do it now. After adding the matte, resize the video so that it fits into the 16x9 frame. We letterboxed to 1.78, so we had to scale the video to 136 in the motion settings.

We're not using compressor to create our mpeg2 (we're using Sorenson) but I ran a compressor test with a 16x9 setting and the final product came out anamorphic (open it in Quicktime to check it--you should see no black bars and the resolution should be around 720x404) with a little loss in quality. A noticeable loss (if you really look hard), yes, but I can live with it.

I think this method is pretty similar to what Briceman did in Avid.

EditPhish

01-31-2006, 01:25 PM

Shaun,

I did try something similar in Final Cut and all I can say is that the quality loss to me was night and day noticeable.... and not something I could live with. Could be I'm doing something wrong, though my steps were almost identical to yours. I'm testing another program right now, but will certainly try the FC method again later.

Bryan

01-31-2006, 01:27 PM

I don't have Compressor, or Sorenson Squeeze, or Cleaner. So even if I make 16x9 anamorphic project file, is there no way I can export to MPEG-2 from FCP4? I need some sort of third party software?

If so, this is unfortunate. All this work for nothing. These "Delivery Requirements" came way too late in the game.

Shaun Patrick

01-31-2006, 01:32 PM

was the quality loss that bad before or after you encoded to mpeg2?

25 more posts and you can vote...keep it up.

EditPhish

01-31-2006, 01:35 PM

Bryan... try BitVice... that's what I used
http://www.innobits.se/
They also have a free "helper app" for muxing.

You might want to check out:
http://www.alfanet.it/squared5/mpegstreamclip.html

That's what the other link I sent you is about.

Shaun,

It was that bad before AND after. I wouldn't say it was HORRIBLE, but it was clearly noticeable... and noticeable enough that I could live with it.

But the MpegStreamClip software I'm trying now seems to (at least before mpeg-2 compression) do a much better job... I'm burning a DVD now for testing.

BrianV

01-31-2006, 01:36 PM

Another good program is the VLC player. It plays back MPEG-2, DivX, and plenty of other good stuff. Good for testing.

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

Go nuts. :) I don't have that MPEG-2 content component from Apple and it works fine.

At least... I don't think I have it...

In these late hours (late being noon after being up until whenever)... my mind is pudding.

ProfD

01-31-2006, 04:32 PM

Barry....we are rendering to mpg2 this evening (31Jan)..tried yesterday and murphy's law kicked in during the last minute of rendering...yep...power went off in the building...not kidding. Anyway...between teaching college classes all day I'm working on getting it rendered this evening or later tonight. I understand the process completely...so no technical issues here...but just a note that it will be sent to you guys shortly...don't wanna miss any deadlines or anything.

Thanks,
ProfD

penfever

01-31-2006, 05:23 PM

Thanks to whoever recommended BitViceHelper for muxing, worked like a charm...
I agree, however, that something in the cropping/compressing/muxing process is messing with the image pretty badly. I saw a major increase in grain when I compressed, as well as slight inconsistencies in color temperature, I think -
Best of luck to all, once the FTP goes up.