Pricing/Is it worth it?

[DammitJanet]

Hi there. As a big fan of Troublemaker Studios I've been researching the HVX-200 and it's abilities for shooting 1080/24p like Sin City, Once Upon a Time in Mexico and such. If that's the kind of quality I can expect from the HVX-200 then I have no reservations about saving my pennies/donating my body to medical experimentation in order to get one. However, at the end of the day I'm just an indie filmmaker trying to make the best movies I can. I have to keep constantly aware of budget, and I need to know if the HVX-200 will really be worth it. So here's what i'm wondering. What will I need to shoot with this camera and how much will it cost me?

How much will the camera cost me? I'm hearing around $6000. Is that right?

Will I need to use MiniDV tapes or P2 cards for shooting the quality video mentioned above?

If P2, how many will I need and how much will that cost me? How much footage will a P2 card hold? I know MiniDV tapes hold 60 minutes of footage, but I've heard P2 cards only hold 8 minutes of the aforementioned quality video. That sounds pretty useless to me, but I'm probably wrong.

What will my PC need for editing that kind of footage?

I currently have the newest version of Adobe Premiere Pro.
I have a 3.0 Ghz Pentium 4 Prescott cpu in an Asus P5GDC-V Deluxe motherboard with 2GB of DDR2 RAM, an eVGA nVidia 7800GT video card, Seagate 250GB hard drive, 500w Ultra X-Connect power supply and Thermaltake Silent 775 cpu cooler. Will that be sufficient?

I know this sounds kind of convoluted but I appreciate the help. Thanks everyone. --Blake

[redindian]

HVX costs around 5.5K...
P2 4GB costs $600

rest of the answers are on the FAQ (check the sticky)

[The Machinist]

Blake I don't mean to be an ass but if you look at any of the threads going on in the HVX sections you would find all the answers to the questions in your post.

I know you want specific answers to your questions but proper board ettiquette dictates you should try to research the threads and posts on this board prior to posting questions like

How much will the camera cost me? I'm hearing around $6000. Is that right?

Will I need to use MiniDV tapes or P2 cards for shooting the quality video mentioned above?

If P2, how many will I need and how much will that cost me? How much footage will a P2 card hold? I know MiniDV tapes hold 60 minutes of footage, but I've heard P2 cards only hold 8 minutes of the aforementioned quality video. That sounds pretty useless to me, but I'm probably wrong.

You gotta be willing to put forth the legwork in this business to get places. You can't expect personalized answers to your every question especially at this stage in the game when this kind of HVX knowledge is second nature to board members.

Don't mean to talk down to ya man but for the future do some research before posting.

[boo]

what's that clicking sound?

[Luis Caffesse]

Hi there. As a big fan of Troublemaker Studios I've been researching the HVX-200 and it's abilities for shooting 1080/24p like Sin City, Once Upon a Time in Mexico and such. If that's the kind of quality I can expect from the HVX-200 then I have no reservations about saving my pennies/donating my body to medical experimentation in order to get one.


Then I highly recommend you have reservations about saving your pennies.

[DammitJanet]

Thanks fellas. I apologize for jumping in and throwing such a wide question in there. I think I get the idea of what the HVX-200 offers now. Sorry to say that it's well out of my price range, but what can you do?

I have to say that I'm pretty disappointed with the P2 idea though. Having to switch from 60 minutes of tape time to 10 minutes of P2 time is f-ing ridiculous. How the hell are you supposed to get a feature shot like that? Unless you don't mind taking your laptop with you everwhere and continuously dumping all the time. I mean, you'd think that with such small amounts of space, P2 would be cheap right? Wrong. In fact, it's obscenely priced, IMO. So I guess it's not worth it after all...for me that is. I'm sure there are plenty around here who won't mind shelling out the big money for it, but I just find it too limiting. I'd rather wait a few years for the technology to advance a bit more and the prices to come down.

Unless I can just record straight to an external HDD (Firewire or USB2) or record straight to an iPod, I'll just have sit on the sidelines and wait. Thanks again for the input.

[redindian]

its just like compact flash or SD card in your digital still camera....

anolog v/s all digital workflow

[ullanta]

I have to say that I'm pretty disappointed with the P2 idea though. Having to switch from 60 minutes of tape time to 10 minutes of P2 time is f-ing ridiculous. How the hell are you supposed to get a feature shot like that? Unless you don't mind taking your laptop with you everwhere and continuously dumping all the time. I mean, you'd think that with such small amounts of space, P2 would be cheap right? Wrong. In fact, it's obscenely priced, IMO. So I guess it's not worth it after all...for me that is.

Again, if you read the voluminous info hear, you'll find this has been perhaps the most-discussed topic on the board. And the consensus? Not a problem at all for dramatic filmmaking; most problematic for documentary film and event videographers. Since you fall into the first camp, shouldn't be a problem. Though, if you're planning on making films like those you've mentioned, if you're worried about a LAPTOP being a lot of equipment to drag around, you're in for a surprise or two.

Sounds to me you're better off doing some work with a real cheap low-investment camera first so you have some idea of what you really need to do what you want...

[The Machinist]

Blake,

I want you to do a search for the following things


P2 store
Firestore
Cineporter
Citidisk HD
DV Rack or Capture to Laptop or Host Mode

Consider this next bit a freebee:

Host Mode

As for HDD, you can't record straight to it but you can dump right from the P2 to camera without a computer via the HVX's Host Mode. Time speeds vary but if your drive is at least 7200 rpmm i believe then it should only be a few minutes (like 4-8?) to empty and verify the files were transfered and then empty the P2 card and keep shooting.

Please don't post again until you've really gone through the threads on this website cause alot of good points have been brought up for and against P2 and you shouldn't dismiss it outright until you've read these points and possess all the facts. Otherwise you might be cheating yourself good buddy.

[Justyn]

It still amazes me that people think this camera is expensive. I can look into the safe in my office and see the 10 hours of super 16mm that I shot on my first feature back in 96 which cost me with lap fees in excess of 30K.. now that's friggin expensive. If you are going to make a feature then get a budget or don't, but bitching about something as revolutionary as this camera reeks of insecurity and a lack of forsight.

I wish I could have shot video back then as a first time director and when I would be done I'd own the effin camera. I pretty much only want to shoot film again when someone else is paying.. and DV is strickly for the home movies.



J

[Barry_Green]

Having to switch from 60 minutes of tape time to 10 minutes of P2 time is f-ing ridiculous. How the hell are you supposed to get a feature shot like that?
You are joking, right? If not, you are aware that the longest load of 35mm film you can get is 11 minutes, right? Would you imply that shooting a feature on 35mm film is ****ing ridiculous?

[pastywhiteboy]

You are joking, right? If not, you are aware that the longest load of 35mm film you can get is 11 minutes, right? Would you imply that shooting a feature on 35mm film is ****ing ridiculous?
Amen to that, Barry.

Also, remember that even without the ability to shoot HD, this camera is still the only tapeless cam on the market that offers 4:2:2 , native 16:9, and 24p... and at $6k, I would say it is way more than worth it. Heck, shoot in DV all the time and it's still worth it.

Anyway, I can't remember ever shooting a continuous 10 minute shot for a feature. If you really want to complain about something with this camera, you should complain about the editing solutions as that is one thing that needs to be addressed quickly.

-pasty

[Mr. Blonde]

Blake,

I want you to do a search for the following things


P2 store
Firestore
Cineporter
Citidisk HD
DV Rack or Capture to Laptop or Host Mode



The citidisk is an offload device only, not live capture. If you check out the website info you'll see that it only captures standard dv, and archives hd.:(

[joemondello]

I shot on my first feature back in 96 which cost me with lap fees in excess of 30K..

Yeah those LAP fees sure can add up! ;) hehe

Anyway, for myself, I had to chose between a 100B + kit (mic, lights, tripod, fluid head, etc) or a 200 with no accessories at all, so I went with the 100B. Or I suppose I could buy 2 DVX100Bs or 1 HVX200.

Obviously the HVX200 is a breakthrough price-wise, but it is still out of reach for some folks.

[DammitJanet]

No Barry, I didn't know that. Was I supposed to do a search on that before I posted too? Hehe, j/k. I've never worked with film, and don't intend to for some time. I love learning about it though, so thanks for the info.

Machinist - Thanks a lot. I took your advice and did some serious reading. I think I have a much better grasp on what the 200 is capable of. After said consideration, I don't think it's totally ridiculous. I still can't say I agree with P2 as a thoroughly reasonable medium, but the alternatives sound just dandy. And anyway, at the end of the day it's still way out of my price range. I'm content to wait a few years and see how things develop. It's pretty exciting to see tech advancing so fast just the same. Thanks again for the input guys. :thumbsup:

[The Machinist]

Glad you're more informed.

I still consider myself a newbie to this board having only been posting since early November. So i know how some people like to jump on the less experienced. However the vast majority of people on this board are swell fellas and super friendly and knowledgable.

I was just trying to save you from a flaming because you were saying some outlandish things for a while there so welcome to the light.

And FYI if you had done a search on the 35mm time constraints you probably would have found the info because it's been brought up on more than one occasion in the past few months.