Basketball footage (new) 720 60fps [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Jarred Land

12-20-2005, 11:41 PM

some more clips for ya.. native dvcpro clips this time. (may only work on mac) Cheerleaders in 60p slowmotion:

right click save as:

http://www.dvxuser3.com/hvx3/720-60cheer.mov

right click and save as then remove the X.

http://www.dvxuser3.com/hvx3/720-DVCPRO-ball.Xmov

for pc users, and for mac users that want to see the full clip as a Mpeg4 half rez:

http://www.stickypod.com/stickypod_upload/uploads/720p-bball-half.mp4

Thanks Stickypod for hosting the mp4.

Shawn Murphy

12-20-2005, 11:59 PM

looks nice!

but again, you've got some distracting images in that clip that make it really hard to be objective! ;-)

Angrius

12-21-2005, 12:01 AM

Hey that looks fantastic! Were those default settings on the camera or did you frig around a bit with them? Also, in regards to the 720p-bball clip, what did you use for compression..it came out quite well. Thanks.

Jarred Land

12-21-2005, 12:13 AM

in regards to the 720p-bball clip, what did you use for compression..it came out quite well. Thanks.

thats dvcprohd baby.. yes, it does look that good.

Emanuel

12-21-2005, 12:31 AM

Thanks Jarred!

Can Scanner

12-21-2005, 12:34 AM

Argh, they won't play! QuickTime is taking me to the third party plug-in page.
Any help?

Rodrigo

12-21-2005, 12:56 AM

ok, couple of things: is there any way for pc users to view dvcprohd at this stage... I hear there's a canopus codec... does it work with pc?

rgdfilms

12-21-2005, 01:11 AM

HOLY CRAP thats HOT

What is that Jarred, 720 or 1080?

Amazing butts on those cheerleaders

Jarred Land

12-21-2005, 01:12 AM

thats just 720p :)

kyledroid

12-21-2005, 01:24 AM

Can i just say that compression has come such a long way! I am watching the mp4, and I am amazed at its quality. I remember when 30 megabytes meant only 15 seconds at a 320 by 240 resolution. Wow!

Barry_Green

12-21-2005, 01:24 AM

ok, couple of things: is there any way for pc users to view dvcprohd at this stage... I hear there's a canopus codec... does it work with pc?
Yes PC users can view DVCPRO-HD files. Avid has a freely-downloadable codec.

But no, it won't work with these files. These files are coming from a Mac and for some reason, they're not compatible (except, apparently, if you have a full-fledged Avid Express Pro HD installation like Mr. Blonde does).

Jarred Land

12-21-2005, 01:29 AM

it took me half an hour to get an acceptable mp4 compression setting for DVCpro.. so it wasnt easy... mind you, its kinda the first day on a mac for me, opening compressor for the first time, so maybe that was half the battle.

But yes.. at the show in LA our apple guy did some exports to Mp4 and they where unwatchable, im glad that with a few tweaks they turned out pretty good.

Rodrigo

12-21-2005, 01:48 AM

Sorry to bother then... but is it posssible to get a HD wmv from the hidef mov's?

please?

Jarred Land

12-21-2005, 01:52 AM

if someone can tell me how to make a wmv HD in compressor, than I will do it. Or maybe mr. blonde can do it out of Avid?

Rodrigo

12-21-2005, 01:58 AM

You just need Windows media encoder, free to download from microsoft... I don't know if there's a mac version though

MarcusX

12-21-2005, 02:07 AM

I can't watch the mov's, but the mp4 looks amazing. I love the detail and the colors.

mynamesbuck

12-21-2005, 02:56 AM

The mp4 looks stunning. This camera is simply amazing.

Emanuel

12-21-2005, 03:04 AM

I can't watch the mov's, but the mp4 looks amazing. I love the detail and the colors.:thumbsup: and run & gun mode, too :thumbup: As we can see there isn't only at DVExpo floor...

Good post work, Jarred!...you made our dreams up again!...without against wind...

...as well, to you Evin (evinsky) and I follow your zoom in at the clip's end...I can even figure out your eye, good taste, indeed! :laugh: (well, is there anyone that can invite me to my next holiday's California travel to?)

Stevet

12-21-2005, 05:40 AM

That looks nice! Oh, and the footage too :)

Rodrigo

12-21-2005, 06:06 AM

Hmmm, and can't MP4 be hi-def?

Or maybe h264 HD mov's? Plz ppl help me here

MarcusX

12-21-2005, 06:30 AM

Please post some full res. stills for us poor windows-users.

smelni

12-21-2005, 07:05 AM

I have a full fledged version of avid express pro hd - i can import the files without error - but then when i play them it is just a white clip/

any idea why these clips wouldnt be working

will_griffith

12-21-2005, 07:17 AM

If you give me somplace to upload it I will convert to WMVHD for you,
although I recommend H.264 since the workflow is much easier in
compressor and since any windows users can download QT7.

-will

JackFoley

12-21-2005, 07:27 AM

MarcusX, here you go, straight from the FCP timeline, grabbed as tiff, saved in PS in quality loss free PNG.

Cheerleader01.png (http://fabforce.net/various/Cheerleader01.png)
Basketball02.png (http://fabforce.net/various/Basketball02.png)

And a 800x of the Cheerleader grab. Remeber, that the 4:2:2 DVCPRO HD 720 is resized from 960 to 1280.

compression.png (http://fabforce.net/various/compression.png)

Rodrigo

12-21-2005, 07:55 AM

H.264 is ok by me

Rodrigo

12-21-2005, 08:35 AM

Ok... I did a chroma test with the cheerleaders stuff:

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/159/comp100121132ie.jpg

BTW, am I the only one who is noticing some kind of softening algorithm on the HVX200 footage?... Maybe that's why they got such noisefree material with good latitude and so on.... and maybe that could explain the presence of artifacts in dark areas as well

bgundu

12-21-2005, 08:42 AM

Some of you on a Mac may be interested in this product:

http://www.flip4mac.com/

bgundu

12-21-2005, 09:08 AM

When I step through basketball the footage, why is are the 5th and 6th frame duplicates? Also, I would assume the slow mo footage would be playing back at 24fps instead of 60fps. It could be quicktime just not showing the correct framerate.

taubkin

12-21-2005, 11:09 AM

Jarred Land

12-21-2005, 11:09 AM

well any format can be hidef if you think about it. i could of made the file full rez mp4, but that would be way to large of a file to host.

h264 just doesnt look very good from DVCproHD for some reason.

Jarred Land

12-21-2005, 11:14 AM

Some of you on a Mac may be interested in this product:

http://www.flip4mac.com/

i actually downloaded that yesterday.. kinda cool, but i cant stomach paying $200 for that program.. those guy's pricing is way way wayyyy out of line.

And yes im on the mac again. I got me some training DVD's this time around, and things seem to be going alot better.

Ernest_Acosta

12-21-2005, 11:31 AM

Hey great legs on those cheers on the still. Any news on the wmv file?

dillont

12-21-2005, 11:38 AM

Holy crap that was gorgeous footage.

Sirius_Doggy

12-21-2005, 12:58 PM

Ok... I did a chroma test with the cheerleaders stuff:

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/159/comp100121132ie.jpg

BTW, am I the only one who is noticing some kind of softening algorithm on the HVX200 footage?...

Funny, I didn't notice anything "softening" while looking at that footage.:engel017:

taubkin

12-21-2005, 01:33 PM

Funny, I didn't notice anything "softening" while looking at that footage.:engel017:

Smart man, that was quick. :beer:

The footage is really cool. But hey, even my VHS-C can make theese cheerleaders look good!

No, really, sensational stuff. It's so cool to see how far you can go with CC in a native 4:2:2 compression... It's going to be a sad christmas, while I save enough money for one of those...

Flintstone

12-21-2005, 03:45 PM

Nice chicks... I mean footage. Where you using autofocus? The footage does look a tad soft. What shutter speed were you using for the basketball shot? Were you using the cam handheld?

Barry_Green

12-21-2005, 04:22 PM

jonahlee

12-21-2005, 04:24 PM

Wow, that footage is amazing! I so want one of these cameras now. I love the slow mow too. Damn this blows me away!!!

taubkin

12-21-2005, 04:59 PM

That was all handheld, sitting on the floor at Pauley Pavilion. Evin was camera op so I can't answer the specific settings on those shots.

The slow-mo 60p stuff may look a little soft due to the shutter speed (it was probably 1/60th).

Hey Barry, I know this was probably already brought up, but like many of the HDV images I saw so far, those images have some issues with excessive edge enhancing/ sharpening, like in the cheerleaders snickers in the photo above. Every demo footage you and Jarred showed so far had those artifacts, that migt be cool for some people, but to me look just plain ugly. I love how the HD experience is much more about clean and sharp (to the extreme), and even more so than film, but to me there is a limit to it.

Anyway, can the sharpening/edge enhancement be turned off?

Jim Arthurs

12-21-2005, 05:09 PM

wmv of 2 clips is up
cheer - HD 720p

I am doing this to get out of avid :
Render to qtime None
Procoder to wmv

Hi SalaTar... what is the location of the mirror?? Thanks for doing this...

Jim Arthurs

Jarred Land

12-21-2005, 05:16 PM

Anyway, can the sharpening/edge enhancement be turned off?

yes indeed.. in fact, just like on the DVX. In fact, Evin saw this during shooting and wanted to turn the detail down, but since we where testing three cameras we wanted them all to be at the same detail setting to be fair.

And thanks Sal for mirroring, as usual... and the WMV is a bonus, thanks dude.

Jim Arthurs

12-21-2005, 05:21 PM

Hi SalaTar... what is the location of the mirror?? Thanks for doing this...

Jim Arthurs

Oh, nevermind, I found it... sometimes pays to look back to the start of threads...

Jim Arthurs

Jim Arthurs

12-21-2005, 05:52 PM

That is some good looking 720p... better than the JVC, and that's comparing a raw .m2t to a WM9!

Terrific colors under difficult lighting, etc. I do agree that's there's more edge sharpening than I like to see, but I understand why.... more footage, bring it on!

My only regret is I pre-ordered at the start of August... wish I'd jumped in on the first week instead of waiting.

Jim Arthurs

Jarred Land

12-21-2005, 06:16 PM

ThomasBln

12-21-2005, 06:22 PM

For those of you who don't have the
PRO codec installed, I converted them
to full sized H.264 MPEG-4:

http://homepage.mac.com/twitt/720-60cheer.mp4
http://homepage.mac.com/twitt/720-DVCPRO-ball.mp4

Shawn Murphy

12-21-2005, 06:23 PM

:)

Dude, I mean, Jarred, I just received 18 copies of the notification of this post from you, what gives?

Antoine_Fabi

12-21-2005, 06:41 PM

It was really shot with the HVX ?

Unbeliveable ! Beautifull colors ! ( quite distracting though...) heh heh

I can't imagine what this camcorder will be capable of !

I just hope i'll recieve mine before 2006 !!!

xl70e3

12-21-2005, 06:42 PM

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/159/comp100121132ie.jpg

Few of them should really consider losing some weight :undecided

EDIT: Oh, footage... errr hold on, gotta concentrate on it

jonahlee

12-21-2005, 06:45 PM

Strangely the slow motion is playing back at 59.94. This was shot as slow mo and converted to 24P and then exported as 59.94? Because it has repeat frames in here. The Cheerleader footage has 3 still frames and then 2 still frames and then 3 and then 2.

The basketball footage also seems to have 3/2 in it (non interlaced 3:2), so is this 24P, and exported at 59.94.

evinsky

12-21-2005, 07:17 PM

That was all handheld, sitting on the floor at Pauley Pavilion. Evin was camera op so I can't answer the specific settings on those shots.

The slow-mo 60p stuff may look a little soft due to the shutter speed (it was probably 1/60th).

I believe I was in film mode and a 180 shutter so the speed would have been 1/120th I think, but it was hard to get a handle on that with so little time. The white balance was set manually, sharpness was zero as were most other parameters as long as they seemed to match well. Exposure was determined by highlight clipping.

Damon Botsford

12-21-2005, 07:31 PM

Stevet

12-21-2005, 08:33 PM

I'll join ya brother!

Cheers :beer:

Zig_Zigman

12-21-2005, 10:51 PM

The tall blonde has a lifetime of leisure and wealth ahead of her.

Anyway, I am so very impressed with this mp4 footage. A light year leap ahead of dv and the movement looked fine. And not even at full resolution. Sweet.

evinsky

12-22-2005, 12:35 AM

Oh my god,
all this pulldown, flagged frames, repeat frames, 720P, 1080i, 1080P, interlaced vs. progressive, Mac vs. PC, flash vs. tape, shutter speed, exposure, inport, export, render, rerender, compressed, uncompressed STUFF is gonna make my head explode!!! Hallelujah. Holy sh*t, where's the tylenol?
Who would have thought it would be this complicated? I'm ready for a beer.

This is kinda my fault, so I will assume responsibility because I did not select 24p"N" as the timebase when shooting this 60P footage. So it's layed down like a Varicam stream using frame doubling. You can use the FCP framerate converter plug-in to get it back to native 24. I was shooting very fast, we only had about 1/2 hour to shoot on the floor and I was trying to cover as many frame rates and timebases as I could while still getting footage worthy of display. So you can all point your finger at me. Istill think it looks good though.
E.

Stevet

12-22-2005, 11:06 AM

evinsky,
Well let's just say you've captured the essence of beauty of the camera and cheerful subjects! :thumbsup:

Antoine_Fabi

12-22-2005, 11:43 AM

en effet !

Rodrigo

12-22-2005, 12:01 PM

No one commenting on the chroma test?
I did it on AE with ultimatte plugin and defect settings... IMO it is pretty good for a blue chroma that wasn't even prepared that way...

jonahlee

12-22-2005, 12:12 PM

This is kinda my fault, so I will assume responsibility because I did not select 24p"N" as the timebase when shooting this 60P footage. So it's layed down like a Varicam stream using frame doubling. You can use the FCP framerate converter plug-in to get it back to native 24. I was shooting very fast, we only had about 1/2 hour to shoot on the floor and I was trying to cover as many frame rates and timebases as I could while still getting footage worthy of display. So you can all point your finger at me. Istill think it looks good though.
E.
Still looks great, just was wondering about all the frames.

bgundu

12-22-2005, 12:37 PM

No one commenting on the chroma test?
I did it on AE with ultimatte plugin and defect settings... IMO it is pretty good for a blue chroma that wasn't even prepared that way...

Hey Rodrigo,

I was impressed! Can't wait to see some real compositing tests.

Elton

12-22-2005, 02:39 PM

Emanuel

12-22-2005, 02:40 PM

This is kinda my fault, so I will assume responsibility because I did not select 24p"N" as the timebase when shooting this 60P footage. (...) So you can all point your finger at me.Are you joking?

I must say that here @us, there are, at least, several persons for who we must to be grateful:

a) to Jarred 'cause he posted it;

b) to Michael (Pappas) and Barlow (Elton) and many others like the Wind against HVX team 'cause their excellent devil's advocate part...and when they came here to say: Great!...well, it's great hear them!;

c) to Barry (Is it necessary to say why?) 'cause his silence (when there is) is frightening; and

d) to you, Evin, 'cause you gave us better nights of sleep until HVX chez nous (@ours).

Elton

12-22-2005, 02:51 PM

if someone can tell me how to make a wmv HD in compressor, than I will do it. Or maybe mr. blonde can do it out of Avid?

Jarred, what was your problem with h.264 in Compressor? I think what I compressed looks very close to the original file.

btw, I think the only way you can get the file to WMV HD from a Mac is to use Flip4Mac, but that's a chunk of change. :-(

escozooz

12-22-2005, 04:04 PM

you are hilarious for posting that. :grin:

People are so anxious for HVX footage that you could post a goat getting it's head chopped off and people would be like "yeah the dof looked great." lol.

thanks for choosing cheerleaders and not goat-mutilation.:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

dbwolfe

12-22-2005, 05:59 PM

how come my brand new PowerBook 1.67GHz with 2gigs of ram and a 7200rpm drive can play back 720p DVCPRO HD with no problems but it totally chokes on HD H.264 stuff that's been compressed to a much smaller file size? is the H.264 codec much more taxing on a processor than the DVCPRO HD codec? is that why apple is moving to intel? my compaq presario M2000 which cost $600 plays DV & DVD's much better than my PowerBook as well and it's intel. go figure.

Elton

12-22-2005, 08:47 PM

is the H.264 codec much more taxing on a processor than the DVCPRO HD codec? is that why apple is moving to intel?

h.264, unfortunately, is VERY processor intensive. HD in that codec will bring a G4 to it's knees. My G5 hardly breaks a sweat, but it's pretty crappy that a fast G4 has a hard time with it.

Try HDV with your Powerbook. If a G4 Powerbook is your fastest computer, don't even consider HDV for editing.

Emanuel

12-22-2005, 10:30 PM

Here's a couple of h.264's on my iDisk...

One is compressed at 7.75 mbs, another at 29mbs (the max in Compressor)

Hard to tell a difference visually, but not the file size!

www.homepage.mac.com/mrbarloweltonOK Mr. Barlow, please @PC side, too! It's just 50% of the dvxuser.com members, at least, if not 95% for the same proportion of the world out there...

dvpixl

12-22-2005, 11:19 PM

I drool....

Jarred Land

12-22-2005, 11:23 PM

actually there still is about a 85% pc ratio on DVXuser... not quite 50 yet.. but i just turned again to the mac side so who knows.

Haakon

12-22-2005, 11:35 PM

I'm switching to FCP from Vegas as well in 2006, mostly due to the advent of the HVX. It was painful for me at first, but version 5 has brought along some very nice changes from 4.5 and with the 4GB P2 cards being half the price we originally thought they'd be, it'll leave me a little more cash for a better system. :-)

Elton

12-22-2005, 11:57 PM

OK Mr. Barlow, please @PC side, too! It's just 50% of the dvxuser.com members, at least, if not 95% for the same proportion of the world out there...

h.264 IS pc side too...if you download and install Quicktime 7 for Windows XP on a reasonably fast machine. (probably P4 needed)

Didn't somebody already convert the cheerleader clip into WMV? I would, but I don't have Flip4Mac and the Avid Adrenaline I have access to is Mac based.

Sorry Emanuel. Just got to www.quicktime.com

Damon Botsford

12-22-2005, 11:58 PM

actually there still is about a 85% pc ratio on DVXuser... not quite 50 yet.. but i just turned again to the mac side so who knows.

Wait a second... I thought Canopus "was our only real hope".
Just pokin' fun. I saw you took a little heat for that comment. I'm a little bit of an Edius fan. I don't check in too much so just wanted to say thanks for everything you offer here and happy holidays.

Opcode

12-23-2005, 12:51 AM

I just bought an Apple Quad Core FCP5 system myself after being in the strictly pc world all my life. This was mainly for the hvx but after I spent some time learning FCP, I was pretty hooked.

Jim Arthurs

12-23-2005, 10:42 AM

Oh my god,
all this pulldown, flagged frames, repeat frames, 720P, 1080i, 1080P, interlaced vs. progressive, Mac vs. PC, flash vs. tape, shutter speed, exposure, inport, export, render, rerender, compressed, uncompressed STUFF is gonna make my head explode!!! Hallelujah. Holy sh*t, where's the tylenol?
Who would have thought it would be this complicated? I'm ready for a beer.

And this is why I want to own and not rent the HVX... because if the "super users" out there get turned around with the settings on the camera and NLE timeline exports, imagine where I would stand without some serious practice. Well, thanks to their "mistakes" probably pretty good, but hey...

Actually the camera is pretty easy... SD and 1080 act just like the DVX. With 720p you need to just pick your recording "timebase" (24, 30, 60) and you're good to go.

Also think of it this way... master this camera and rule your market, cause the guy with the 10 year old BetaSP camera ain't gonna pick all this IT stuff up overnight...

Jim Arthurs

Mike James

12-23-2005, 07:46 PM

But yes.. at the show in LA our apple guy did some exports to Mp4 and they where unwatchable, im glad that with a few tweaks they turned out pretty good.

Sorenson Squeeze Compression Suite 3 and version 4 come with Sorenson Video 3 Pro version bundled.

When you export out to Sorenson Video 3 Pro you are actually compressing out to what I consider the best MPEG4 variant there is out there. It fires out an .MOV file because it is somewhat of an MPEG4 offshoot, but it is better looking than MP4 files and the same if not smaller in file size than compressing out an MP4 file.

http://www.sorensonstore.com/

The downside is that the Video 3 Pro all by itself is $299 and normally the Compression Suite 4.2 is $499, but for a limited time the Compression Suite without the VP6 codec is running $100 off and now can be had for $399 which includes the Video 3 Pro Codec.

The thing I like about the Sorenson Video 3 Pro Codec is two fold:

1. It exports out to .mov files which play perfectly on a PC or Mac with QuickTime 5.5 or higher installed.

2. It holds up really well even when you spread out the forced keyframes in the compression options. I've done stuff for viewing online at 30 FPS with keyframes forced every 360 frames and it holds up well unless there is wicked action sequences. Basically the compression can easily handle 8 to 12 times your FPS for forcing keyframes ("keyframes" is in the terminology in the export options).

Just an FYI based on my experience with it.

(I made typos so I edited some of them)

Emanuel

12-26-2005, 11:40 AM

actually there still is about a 85% pc ratio on DVXuser... not quite 50 yet..:grin:

razamalik

12-26-2005, 07:07 PM

araujofh

12-27-2005, 07:27 AM

Wow, great looking footage!!!!
Thanks Jarred!!!
It is amazing how the DVCProHD codec plays smoothly on my powerbook. The wmvHD footage doesn't play smoothly on my powerbook.

I really liked the footage. So clear.

01-03-2006, 02:05 AM

THIS IS REALLY GREAT...!!!
"Best newyear gift"
THANKS A TON JARRED!!!

DonRGB

01-06-2006, 10:25 AM

Jarred,

These clips just appear as white screens on my (Mac OS X 10.4.3)
I have the latest QT 7.0.3 but the link tells me some third party plugins are missing and takes me to the QT page. I've installed everything that's there but they still won't play.

What special 3rd party plug-in do I need?

Thanks,

Don

uhrgl

01-06-2006, 02:35 PM

The basketball vid looks AMAZING. How did he get on the baseline at Pauley Pavilion?

uhrgl

01-06-2006, 02:36 PM

Seriously, when I first started watching, I thought it was Blue Chips with Nick Nolte and Shaq.

Justyn

01-06-2006, 06:28 PM

I preferred Shazam... I met william Friedkin when he did Blue Chips. How the hell do you go from the Exorcist to Blue Chips? I think some dollars might have been involved.

The footage certainly has class!

J

Dmitry Kichenko

01-06-2006, 07:07 PM

Truly stunning.. To be honest, prior to seeing this I was quite disappointed in the other footage I've seen on the board. To me this looked, first of all, "expensive", and secondly - quite film-like. I truly hate comparing to film lately, but I just couldn't help but think how far the image looked from the typical video look. At least it looked so in the half-res MPEG4 clip :). I should have gotten the DVCPRO100 version of it today when I was at the Mac store. I was too fascinated by the 30" display to remember, hehe (and too disappointed in the mighty mouse, bleh).

Don - if you look around, you'll read that you need the Apple DVCPRO codec to play the original clips. You can either install FCP or just obtain the codec package on its own. Ask around, people may be willing to send the codec itself.