hvx monitor: Dell 2405FPW $780

[boo]

if you're looking for a low cost hd monitor for the hvx, dell has the 2405 24" 1900x1200 for only $780.

add coupon code: D8Q403R9G4FJ32

coupon expires on oct. 13.

[FatBird19]

do you know what the refresh rate is?

[adaml]

Is this still considered "the" monitor to get for the price? I'm thinking of getting two of them for the G5 setup I'm buying in December.

[Barry_Green]

Thanks -- been waiting for that coupon! Order just placed...

[adaml]

If Barry's getting it, it must be "the" monitor!

[boo]

adam, i have two of these as a dual monitor setup for fcp. looking to get a 3rd for monitoring hvx footage or will split the two i currently have, one for fcp and the other for hvx viewing. damn i love these monitors and will take 'em any day over them cinema displays for the price!

[boo]

at 1900x1200 it is 60hz, 12ms

[Jaime Valles]

So, it this the next best thing to using a $30,000 HD CRT production monitor? How do the colors look on this, or any, LCD?

When doing color correction, is it still better to use an NTSC SD production monitor, even if you don't get full resolution? Or do these monitors also work for color correction?

[Barry_Green]

Well, the thing is, HD is a different beast than SD.

SD has traditionally been an inherently analog, CRT-based system. And those CRTs have varied widely in color accuracy, color fidelity, etc. So SMPTE and EBU came up with standards of accuracy that could be reasonably relied on, between specifying the phosphors to be used in the monitors to defining the specifications for the video signal (color bars) to be used to calibrate the image. At that point you would know what your image is "supposed" to look like; but of course what it actually looked like varied from house to house depending on the quality of the televisions they were using.

HD is different. HD was designed from the ground up to be a digital signal. It doesn't suffer from the vagueries of NTSC transmission -- it is always supposedly "legal" and "correct". So theoretically (and, whoa boy is that the right choice of words!) theoretically, HD is supposed to look pretty much the same, across the board.

Of course, in reality it doesn't. And people are divided over which display technology actually looks better. I happen to think a quality CRT still gives by far the most pleasing picture. But CRTs are huge, expensive, and very very very heavy (to get any sort of decent-size screen). So many people are adopting LCD and other styles. Sony and Panasonic have both introduced HD-spec LCD monitors recently.

I find the Dell most interesting because it is a 1920x1080-native-capable display, and it's fairly dirt-cheap. I plan on it mainly being used as a huge desktop display, not so much as an HDTV. I figure for color correction etc. it'll be nice to have at least two different display technologies close by (HD CRT and also the LCD).

[Jim Arthurs]

I find the Dell most interesting because it is a 1920x1080-native-capable display, and it's fairly dirt-cheap. I plan on it mainly being used as a huge desktop display, not so much as an HDTV. I figure for color correction etc. it'll be nice to have at least two different display technologies close by (HD CRT and also the LCD).

Last summer I bought the HP 2335 and paid well over twice what the Dell goes for on sale... and the Dell is the better monitor, what with proper 16:9 display on it's 16:10 array, more/better inputs, etc. I'm getting one as well for a second desktop display and HD monitoring with the Decklink HDLink.

Jim Arthurs

[Stevet]

I know we can't have our cake and eat it too, but I wish it had a component input too.
I imagine most will be using the DVI input on the Dell hooked up to their computer. Is this right? Just thinking it might be cool to use on location hooked up to the HVX200.

Steve

[Barry_Green]

I'm pretty sure it does have component inputs...

[dolph2000]

I'm just in the middle of buying a monitor for color correction. Should i buy it or not.
Thanks

[mgalvan]

Same here ... would this be an ideal monitor to use with the HDLink/Decklink HD Card combo? I have my HVX preordered and am starting to look at other things needed such as a monitor for viewing and color correction. Help me! Should I order this thing now, cause the price certainly looks right ....

[rgdfilms]

damnit ! i wonder if there will be more coupons after the new year, i would buy one right now but Im saving my pennies for that god damned HVX hoopla HD camera machine !!!!

mwhahaha

im sure the price will drop further if they're offering this deal now

can anyone out there compare this to the Apple Cinema 23 inch display ? We use one at work and its badazz but I would never pay that $1500 premium on it

[Barry_S]

Don't worry it'll go on sale again. I've been using the 2405FPW for a few months and it's a pretty nice monitor--and outstanding for the price. I also have a 20" Apple Cinema Display and I'd say both are very nice monitors with very good color fidelity and response time (for LCD panels). It's not a production monitor by any means, but I think it would look good being fed via a Decklink card. The composite input looks like crap and the scaling electronics are sub-par, but the component input isn't bad. As a computer display, it really rocks.

[Steve Strickland]

Man, I was just about to order one of these at $950. I'm so glad I caught this post. Thanks a million, boo. :)

[Stevet]

I found this article on the net. I'm interested in this too.
http://www.barefeats.com/lcd.html

I still have a Sampo 34" direct view widescreen kicking around.
http://www.mindlogic.com/HDTV_SMPO_sme-34whd5_DTL.shtml
Has anyone seen this set? It has one dang nice picture.
I thought about having a ISF tech come out and fine tune it.

Unfortunately, it weighs a freaking ton... Man, it weighs 200LBS !

By the way, how does good old SD DVD look plugged into the component inputs on the Dell? Also, how does the scaling to 720 look?

Steve

[Jim Arthurs]

... would this be an ideal monitor to use with the HDLink/Decklink HD Card combo?


Yes.

As Barry mentioned, it does have component inputs as well for direct viewing from the HVX. Unlike my HP 2335's component inputs, the Dell doesn't scale the the 16:9 to 16:10, but keeps it the proper aspect ratio.

The HDLink is only useful if you need to monitor from an HD-SDI output, such as the Decklink card you mentioned. It maps the signal pixel by pixel into the monitor's DVI for perfect full raster 1920 by 1080 presentation.

Jim Arthurs

[WarrenS]

I have both the 23" Cinema display and the Dell 2405. I like the Cinema display better. It has a wider field of view and looks consistent from almost any angle. The Dell is excellent for the money and has the advantage of multiple inputs. The composite input seems pretty ugly but the component is pretty good. I've been using it to play component out of the HD100. You really can't go wrong for the price.

[BillP]

I have th Apple 23" at work, and the Dell 24" at home.
I like my Dell better.
That extra inch is really noticed.

Plus it's less expensive and has a better warranty.
I also love having my PC and my G5 plugged into it at the same time and toggling between the two.

-BillP

[evinsky]

How dos SD look played back on it? Either from component or composite. Most HD LCD TVs look like utter shit playing back SD. So I may get a refurb Sony HD CRT monitor if it doesn't do good SD.

[delaro]

i wanted to buy this monitor for 2 weeks but i just read a french article saying that video noise is awfull when reading dvds or videos, the angle is not that good, and it s slow with important losses of details during travellings. so i m questioning myself .....

http://www.tomshardware.fr/articlemoniteur.php?IdArticle=976&NumPage=9

[phd]

I ordered my Dell 2405 for 15 minits ago :thumbsup:

[Stevet]

I really want to buy this too, but I'm concerned on how it looks with and HD signal using the component inputs?

I want to use this thing on location. I realize it's not considered a pro monitor.

I read the same article that delaro mentioned. Maybe it was defective? Kind of like what Barry is going through with the HD100.. LOL

Steve

[dolph2000]

How dos SD look played back on it? Either from component or composite. Most HD LCD TVs look like utter shit playing back SD. So I may get a refurb Sony HD CRT monitor if it doesn't do good SD.

Somebody?

[xl70e3]

Coupon not working for me :(

[adaml]

I ordered one. Trying to decide whether to get a second.

[Stevet]

I really want to buy this too, but I'm concerned on how it looks with and HD signal using the component inputs?
Steve

Anyone? I want to buy today if it's good enough.
Steve

[Stevet]

My question is how does it look using a 1080i signal to the component inputs?
Also, how does it look using a 720P signal to the component inputs?

thanxs, Steve

[xl70e3]

Gee everyone's ordering it and I can't make the stupid coupon work... won't go lower than $959 for me :undecided

[stephenvv]

It does not work for me either - says it has "already been redeemed.

[Stevet]

It's true... Deal is over.
Oh well, I'll wait until it's available again.

[lightshow]

I've purchased 4 24" Dell's over the last 3 months, and they are great computer monitors. No bad pixels and the extra inputs are a big plus over the Apple Cinema Displays. HD 720/1080i looks good, I was disappointed with the SD upscaling, but it doesn't really matter for my use.

As far as color correction goes, it depends on the level of your projects. My HD CRT monitor is vastly superior to my Blackmagic HD Link/Dell2405 combo in evaluating color.

[adaml]

what hd crt do you have?

[lightshow]

I have a Sony PVM-14L5.

[adaml]

thanks

[BillP]

Lightshow,

Just curious, how do you view HD on your monitor?
Did you purchase an extra HD input card?

I have the Sony PVM-14L5 monitor as well, and was wondering what my options were for viewing HD on it.

-BillP

[Barry_Green]

? The PVM-14L5 isn't a high-def CRT, it's standard-def. It can have an option board installed to let it take high-def signals, but it's not capable of fully resolving the high-def image... is it? Sony classifies it as an NTSC/PAL monitor, not a high-def...

[FuturusX]

For those of you having problems obtaining the discount of 35% off Dell 2405FPW for = $779.35 [before shipping and tax]

I was just able to place an order with the following code:

7Q4PQ9S860ZDLX

I believe these coupons have a usuage limit so move fast.

[xl70e3]

nope...

[FuturusX]

Ensure that you apply that code against the Small Business section NOT home / home office.

[xl70e3]

!!!

Thank you :)

[lightshow]

Hi Barry,

You don't need the HD-SDI option to view HD on the L5 series (1080/24, 1080i, 1035i, 720p, 480p, 480i) The analog HD looks great, I've pushed all flavors of HD into the monitor, it is a HD monitor straight out of the box. I found that Ross Digital makes a much more affordable HD-SDI input for the L5 if you need a digital HD in.

[Barry_Green]

Really? Superb! I'll have to look at it a bit more closely then...

[Stevet]

Thanks FuturusX. It worked. I broke down and ordered one. Steve

[BillP]

Hi Barry,

You don't need the HD-SDI option to view HD on the L5 series (1080/24, 1080i, 1035i, 720p, 480p, 480i) The analog HD looks great, I've pushed all flavors of HD into the monitor, it is a HD monitor straight out of the box. I found that Ross Digital makes a much more affordable HD-SDI input for the L5 if you need a digital HD in.

Wow, I had no idea that my L5 was capable of showing HD straight outta the box!
I'm glad I spent the extra money for the L5 over the L2.


-BillP

[mgalvan]

this is very interesting ... after researching the specs of the Sony PVM-14L5, it does say it is HD capable (including 1080p/24) and also seems to be able to display this without having to introduce a pulldown to 60i. Is this correct? And what is this about needing some optional card though?

I also read that this monitor is capable of a max 800 lines (600 in 16:9 mode).Would this be accurate and good for monitoring and cc in post work? How would using this monitor compare to something like the HDLink/Decklink card/Dell monitor combo for such?

[fiercecurry]

It would be for color accuracy and monitoring. I am using FCP, with a Digital Voodoo SD card, hooked up to my PVM-14M via component. The monitor has a 16:9 switch, so i see my DVCPRO HD footage on it letterboxed. Obviously i dont get the detail of an HD monitor but i do get color that is accurate.

[BillP]

That's the reason I went with the PVM-14L5 instead of buying the PVM-14L2.
Color accuracy.

Well that, and the extra 200 lines of resolution.

The PVM-14L2 has P-22 phosphors and the PVM-14L5 has SMPTE-C phosphors.
The latter are more accurate.

I just checked on B&H and the monitor's price has dropped $80 since I bought mine a couple months ago. Doh! :angry:


-BillP

[boo]

this new code was issued yesterday and is limited to 5000 uses.

WFQ9X9GW1VT?2R

[Spartacus]

I have it.
I love it.

Just waiting for the HVX to hook it up harharharharharharhar...........

[Stevet]

I'm waiting for mine. It's due to arrive Monday 10/17.
I'm looking forward to hooking it up to the HVX200 too.

Has anyone hooked up some sort of HD to the component inputs?
How is it?
I realize it might not be the best for making final color corrections.

Steve

[mgalvan]

Oh man .. do I order this?

[John C Lyons]

Jarred, Barry_S, and myself have had this Dell 24" LCD for some time now and we all love it. And also there are several other posts on the site about it if you guys are looking for more info.

[Barry_Green]

Only order it if you need it now. With technology, as time passes, things get better and prices go lower.

[mgalvan]

Ah yes, the thought of reasoning ... thanks, I was just going to buy it impulsively. Perhaps I should wait till I have my HVX first before buying a monitor ...

[RC23]

SHIT i missed it :\

[pjoubert]

The offer has been extended by Dell to 10/18 or 5000 units. I just ordered one...

Here is the code:

Price: $779.35 + $2.60 Shipping
Coupon Code: WFQ9X9GW1VT?2R
This is the cheapest this monitor has ever been, better pick this one up while the deal is still around. Dell just extended this deal to the 18th, or until 5000 redemptions. Your friends will all be jealous. Use Dell coupon WFQ9X9GW1VT?2R to get this deal at Dell Home.

[boo]

remember, black friday is just around the corner...

[mccainds]

I need this monitor and I am sitting on cash to purchase it. Please publish any coupons if youvbe got them!

[phd]

I got my today and I love it :thumbsup:

[Pelican]

I am new, so please forgive all the questions. I also purchased the Dell 24" LCD, and it's sitting next to my desk. I also am about to install Vegas, and have an HVX200 on order. I currently have a Matrox G550, but it doesn't support 1920x1200 (WUXGA).

1. What graphics card are most using?
2. Are most of you folks using this for graphic, video monitoring, or both.
3. If for video, are you using the Decklink card,, and which exact model
DeckLink HD™ US$595
DeckLink HD Plus™ US$695
DeckLink HD Pro 4:2:2™ US$995

[phd]

1. I use a Inno G-Force FX 5800 Ultra with 128 MB
2. photo and video
3. only firewire for my videocam DVX100AE and USB 2,0 for Nikon D70

[Deadzone]

Just wondering, I went to the apple site and saw that an HD monitor cost $1299. The Dell monitor is bigger and cheaper. However, on the Dell website, it doesn't say that it is HD. If we were to buy a monitor for use witht the HVX200 would we need to get an HD monitor. I'm not exactly sure what the big difference is between the apple display and this one besides apple claiming HD on theirs. If I can get HD resolution on the apple display ONLY then it maybe worth the extra five hundred bucks. However, if apple is just charging more money for their stuff, which they often do, then I'll just get the Dell.

[BillP]

Deadzone,

1920x1200 is considered HD resolution.
You can use it for HD.

The Dell has a better warranty as well.


-BillP

[Jaime Valles]

Both the Apple 23" and the Dell 24" can display native 1080 HD. The Apple is more expensive because of the nice aluminum frame and good design. The Dell isn't very pretty, but the image quality is *I believe* just as good. And it's cheaper.

Go with the Dell.

[phd]

Good design to hide bad techniques :laugh:

[aquafox]

Besides the Dell's got component inputs, something missing from the Apple. I don't really understand how you can monitor the HVX on Apple's screens without some kind of expensive gadget turning HD-component into DVI... With the Dell you supposedly just plug it in.

[Stevet]

The Dell will benefit using its component inputs with the HVX200.

Having said that, I am a bit disapointed on the picture quality using the dell's component inputs. It's a bit noisey, it appears like mpeg artifacts. A bit blocky.

I don't believe it's my DVD player since I don't see these artifacts using the component hooked up to my Samsung DLP.

It's definitely useable using the component inputs; I just wish it was better.

If my stupid Sony 975 (HDMI/DVI) player worked, I'd try that with the Dell.
Has anyone tried hooking up a DVD player using DVI with the Dell? How does
it look compared to the component inputs?

[Pelican]

For RGB component out of your NLE (PC) does one use a Decklink card to feed the component inputs of this monitor? If so, which exact model?
DeckLink HD™ US$595
DeckLink HD Plus™ US$695
DeckLink HD Pro 4:2:2™ US$995

THANKS!

[galapagosdp]

Is $1020 too much to pay for the Dell 2405?

[Jim Arthurs]

Is $1020 too much to pay for the Dell 2405?

If you can wait it most certainly will go on sale again before end of year, and possibly even at a better price than the latest if there are new models coming out...

Jim Arthurs

[Barry_Green]

Got it, hooked it up, and basically said "wow". Nice monitor. Huge. Be forewarned that you will need a graphics card that supports 1920x1200 resolution, not all of them do. Even cheap ATI Radeon cards do though, so just be sure you have one.

It's got USB2 ports and a memory card reader built into it -- that's really cool. I hadn't realized it but I'd already run out of USB ports on my desktop; now I've got four more! And the card reader is a nice little touch as well.

It's got s-video, composite, component, VGA, and DVI-I ports on it. I haven't tried it as anything but a straight DVI monitor yet, but it's very, very nice as a desktop monitor. There's so much room now -- no more window-resizing in Vegas when going for best/full quality!

[John C Lyons]

welcome aboard Mr. Green!

[Cees Mutsaers]

Barry since the 24" is big is one DEll monitor enough for NLE or would you prefer to have two DELL monitors anyway??

[MovieSwede]

Barry test and watch some upconverted DVX footage (photozoom) on the monitor, its a beuty.

[boo]

new code started 6am pacific this morning! up to 1500 uses! hurry while it lasts!

69$8KC79D53S2H

[John C Lyons]

Dell is VERY smart. Jump on this guys! (and keep posting when a new code comes out, I'm trying to get some of my buddies to buy one and this makes the pot pretty damned sweet!)

[galapagosdp]

Thanks boo, just ordered one. Now all I need is the graphics card.

[redindian]

another 3% off on all DELL purchases:
http://www.fatwallet.com/store.php?store=208

[pjoubert]

Just got it!. Or at least the family - as I am currently in Brazil on business. They love it! Now I only need to wait for the PAL version of the HVX200 :(

[rgdfilms]

Please kind people of the internet, post more coupons as they are available !!!!

[Cees Mutsaers]

is the 16 ms fast enough for video????

[Barry_Green]

I've used mine in combination with an ATI HDTV Wonder to watch broadcast HD, and it seems plenty fine...

[MovieSwede]

So ordered mine today also.

[Cees Mutsaers]

Are Dell monitors only available via internet? I can not find any dealer, store nor the importer in The Netherlands ??? Does anyone have the address/tel nr. of Dell in The Netherlands ???

[phd]

See link http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/default.aspx?c=nl&l=nl&s=gen

[Cees Mutsaers]

Barry When i read this review it seems that this Dell monitor is not suitable for video at all !! http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20050706/professional_lcd-12.html

[phd]

I use it with DVI interface and have no problems with my Premier Pro 1,5. It have replaced my 19" flat CRT

[Barry_S]

Tom's Hardware is a cool site, but video applications aren't really their specialty. They don't state how they were feeding the signal to the monitor (composite/component) or how the image was being displayed (scaled/unscaled.) I find the monitor does a poor job with a composite signal and any scaling. With an unscaled component signal, the 2405FPW looks pretty good. It all depends on how you plan to use it, but I'd love to buy a second one.


...When i read this review it seems that this Dell monitor is not suitable for video at all !! http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20050706/professional_lcd-12.html

[Barry_Green]

Ah -- well, yes, that's a great point. I haven't tried feeding it any external signal. The HDTV signal is coming through DVI-I to the Dell, so it's a direct digital connection. I haven't tried an analog connection...

[Cees Mutsaers]

Barry if money is no issue wich LCD monitor would you buy?

[rgdfilms]

Holy crap, I convinced my boss to get one of these monitors and we just got it today. It's freakin amazing!!!! I need one now. Question for you gurus, I want one specifically for my HVX, so should I wait until after January or should I swoop one of these now for this great price. Tough decision. I don't even think they have any more coupons anyhow.

[Barry_Green]

Well, money *is* an issue, and I went with the Dell. It's a steal at under $800 for such a massive, native 1920 monitor.

As far as "swooping down now" -- electronics prices go down, not up. It should be no more expensive two months from now; unless they replace it with something better perhaps. I wouldn't buy it before you need it.

[boo]

price is already low. compare it to other monitors...you save 100's of $$$...good chance it'll get lower on black friday...

[rgdfilms]

What is and when is black friday ?

[chrischaput]

Okay, So I jumped on the bandwagon, used the coupon, and got one of these babies today. Now I have to figure out how and where I'm going to use it. Yes, I leaped before I looked, so now I need some help to land on my feet...

Does anyone know if:

a) This will work on a (relatively) new Mac G5 (dual 2.3s) with an ATI Radeon 9650? I have an ADC to DVI adaptor for an older 22" Apple Cinema Display. Will I need it?

b) If I'm going to attach it to a PC, what's a good/compatible card to drive it?

c) Are there any coupons/deals on compatible graphics cards out there?

Thanks in advance.

[Luis Caffesse]

a) Yes.




That's all I got.

I don't know the answers to the other questions.

[chrischaput]

Yes, as in, "Yes, and without the adaptor"?

If so, I'm feeling a whole lot smarter right about now. What next, a low-cost high performance graphics card for a PC on sale now?

[Geoff_R]

Has anyone who purchased this Dell monitor used the S-Video input to monitor DVX footage? I plan to use it mostly for the HVX when it comes up but for DVX shoots up until that point, I could use a better monitor than what I'm currently using (a widescreen 7" portable DVD player"). Also, kind of a side note...but would the component inputs work with a PS3 or Xbox 360? I plan on getting one of those and it'd be another plus to get this monitor if I could use it for those new game systems as well.

[MovieSwede]

what i understand you should be able to put in the component cable direct in the monitor.

[dstevens]

Hope this not too ridiculou a question-

I looked at Dell's 2005 FPW. Less max resolution (1680 x 1200, I believe) quite a bit cheaper (at the moment).

Any thoughts on how useful as monitor for editing/color correction, this would be? Is the bottom line 'Just get the best you can'?

[MovieSwede]

I usually hook up a ordinary tv for color correcting. As for editing it would work fine.

[tomtv]

just got the 24" last week. looks great. i did use it as a monitor with the component outputs on my kona card and was fairly impressed. it was close enough that i didn't have to rent an hd monitor. the greatest thing is that if i am able to do this 3 more times i will have paid for the monitor in rental savings. the reality is that even if you are off a hair you always have post to deal with it in. i am lucky to have a 50" panny hd lcd for my television and i use it for color correction with a long set of cables. i was impressed how little correction was needed after using dell in the field. like anything you can begin to adjust what you see based on what might be a little weak with a monitor.

[snarton]

Hi Barry,

You don't need the HD-SDI option to view HD on the L5 series (1080/24, 1080i, 1035i, 720p, 480p, 480i) The analog HD looks great, I've pushed all flavors of HD into the monitor, it is a HD monitor straight out of the box. I found that Ross Digital makes a much more affordable HD-SDI input for the L5 if you need a digital HD in.

I just purchased the Sony PVM-14L5, largely based on this thread. DVXUser forum in action! I plan on using it to do color correction with the HVX200.

My question is, Will the HVX work as a bridge between my NLE (FCP) and the monitor (using the component out connection on the HVX), or will I need a capture card to do this? I've read speculation that the HVX will work for this, but was this ever confirmed by Panasonic or was this demonstrated at the Apple booth at IBC?

I didn't want to wait for someone to test this before buying the monitor because I read that Sony has discontinued the PVM line and I was concerned there wouldn't be any left.

[Konrad]

Both the Apple 23" and the Dell 24" can display native 1080 HD. The Apple is more expensive because of the nice aluminum frame and good design. The Dell isn't very pretty, but the image quality is *I believe* just as good. And it's cheaper.

Go with the Dell.

Neither Apple or the Dell 24" will play with Blu-Ray or HD-DVD when they become available. Dells with DVI-HDCP or HDMI input will work with Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Sorry for jumping in late, instead of sitting in front of the puter I've been out shooting video :)

[Eurotrash]

There is an incredible difference in price between the US and Europe:

Price without discount on US Dell site:
959 US dollar

Price without discount on Dell Netherlands website:
1533 US dollar

A difference of almost 600 dollar! How frustrating, since it is not possible to export a US model to Europe.

[Barry_S]

That doesn't sound right to me. Wouldn't a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive in a computer be outputting their signals via the computer's video card, so if the video card supports HD resolution, you'd be able to display it on a high res computer monitor? Maybe you're talking about hooking the panel directly to a stand alone HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player.



Neither Apple or the Dell 24" will play with Blu-Ray or HD-DVD when they become available. Dells with DVI-HDCP or HDMI input will work with Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Sorry for jumping in late, instead of sitting in front of the puter I've been out shooting video :)

[Konrad]

That doesn't sound right to me. Wouldn't a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive in a computer be outputting their signals via the computer's video card, so if the video card supports HD resolution, you'd be able to display it on a high res computer monitor? Maybe you're talking about hooking the panel directly to a stand alone HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player.


Well that depends on if you are trying to play protected or unprotected Blu-Ray/HD-DVD content. Both formats will challenge the monitor to see if it is HDCP eneabled. If the response is "NO HDCP" then the drive will send out a SD 640x480 SD signal. That is the case regardless of a set top box or a computer drive. Windows XP will not support Blu-Ray/HD-DVD, Windows Vista will. No public statement from Apple, search HDCP on Apple.com for zero results.

This is a GOLDen opportunity for Microsoft and the PC makers to force upgrades with the HD carrot. I know this story is under reported. The average person just wants to believe they can buy a new drive and they will good to go. That's just not the case. I'm no exspurt but I did spend 5 years as a blue badge at Microsoft Premier Support and I have done my homework on HDCP. They don't call new technology BLEEDING edge for nothing. Me, I'm sitting HD out till "ALL" the pieces of the HD puzzle are available and fully supported, which may or may not be late 2006.

[Jaime Valles]

Just to be clear, we're talking about using an Apple 23" or Dell 24" monitor to display HD from an NLE's timeline, not for watching movies in a home theater playing off of Blu-Ray. I'm sure Konrad is correct with all the HDCP stuff, but that's a different issue altogether. One can connect a Dell 24" to a PowerMac with a Decklink HD and view a pixel-for-pixel 1080p image, perfect for editing and color correction. Presumably, one could also connect the HVX directly to the monitor in the field to use as a production monitor. Neither of these involve Blu-Ray, or any of it's associated issues. Right?

[Konrad]

Correct. If you are working with your own content that is not copy protected you are good to go. Until you want to copy protect your own content then you'll need to write a check for $50,000 for the key.

[jmfox]

You know I also just invested in a broadcast crt type monitor because I thought the experts are unanimous that you cannot color correct, for broadcast tv, with an lcd type monitor. Am I now seeing a little wiggle room in the consensus? Are there people successfully color correcting on Dell 24" monitors?

jmf

[Peter Jordan]

Correct. If you are working with your own content that is not copy protected you are good to go. Until you want to copy protect your own content then you'll need to write a check for $50,000 for the key.

I was under the impression that HDCP down converts ANY non HDCP signal to SD. It's a primary element of its structure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP.

I am concerned about what role HDCP will have in the future of the HVX200. I initially envisioned Blu-Ray or HD-DVD as having an integral role how one would deliver HVX200 HD content (storage is a separate issue). But it now appears that if you want to author on any future HD disk format, you will have to foot a hefty license fee. I'm not sure this affects everyone, but it definitely affects lower tier shooters producing work for a wedding or something.

Am I missing something here, or is this a looming obstacle to the future of HD (or at least the HVX).

Sorry if this is off topic. I know we're all talking about the BAD ASS Dell monitor on this thread, but I've been worried about this HDCP issue for a while. Also, I've been working with the Dell 24 since September and it has done nothing but please. Definitely buy it over the Apple.

...and I thank you.

[Barry_Green]

I don't know whether blu-ray or HD-DVD will catch on at all, that remains to be seen. Right now you can author high-def content on a regular DVD, and some players are starting to appear that support it (most notably the JVC and the Avel LinkPlayer; I'm sure there will be more). The easiest way to distribute HD content to a mass base of users is on a regular DVD, authored using WMV-HD. That'll play back on Windows PCs, and there is a massive installed base of those. Won't play back on a TV though, unless the customer has one of those rare WMV-HD-enabled DVD players. Still, it's probably a safe bet that the mass base of distribution will be much more likely to have a WMV-HD-enabled computer than that they would have an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player, at least for the next 5 years or so.

[Konrad]

On the CRT for color correction question. Yes there is wiggle room as some flat panel displays can now be color calibrated which has always been the benchmark goal.

I'm also sorry this got off track. HDCP and Microsofts plans are documented. As it's not implamented this is all a best guess as to how the hardware that does not exist will work.

I'm hoping like SD DVDs we will be able to create non protected content on the winning blue laser HD disc format. For my little direct to consumer operation I don't think we will lose $50,000 of net profit to pirates, making the encryption key worthless to us.

[Sirius_Doggy]

Can't remember if I found this link here or somewhere else on the web but it has all the current Dell Coupons as well as other deals.
http://www.techbargains.com/index.cfm

[Konrad]

Barry makes some excellent points as usual. The hottest thing in PC's is the Media center PC designed to hook up to a TV, and it supports WMV-HD. Windows Media Center is so hot it helped take AMD past Intel in sales last quarter. The VHS v BetaMax type war between Blu-Ray and DVD-HD already has the big retailers telling the two sides to sort it out before they come to market. Add the fact that a big percentage of the installed HD-TV base does not support HDCP.

[adaml]

Is anybody using this with a G5?

[adaml]

I should mention that I had mine at a friend's hooked up to his G4 for a few weeks while I waited for my quad to arrive. It worked great, looked great. Today I hooked it up to the quad and it's acting funky. It looks a little washed out, less at the pc setting. It has a pink cast in the gray areas (think FCP), sometimes changing into pink stripes. It does weird things with red sometimes. And some animations play back all messed up. Is it possible that it's the video card?

[Kennedy]

Is anybody using this with a G5?


I have the 20" hooked up to a dual 2.3 G5 and it works perfectly.

[Edelweiss]

Any more of those codes, anybody? Especially codes that work in the Swiss store? Thanks :cheesy:

[jpsheets]

Hi everyone,

I was planning on getting 2 17' monitors for my new set up, hey I figure the more real estate the better. Does anyone know of 17' monitors with the same resolution as the Dell 24'? Or am I just wishing?

thanks!

[Can Scanner]

"I was planning on getting 2 17' monitors for my new set up, hey I figure the more real estate the better. Does anyone know of 17' monitors with the same resolution as the Dell 24'? Or am I just wishing?"

From what I've seen, you're definitely wishing. There are 17" HDTV lcd monitors, but the resolution is super low. Go figure. I guess there's some of that shifty-pixel stuff going on here. You could sure use two 17" monitors for your NLE though! Plenty of space to throw your windows around. Just get a third monitor that can handle your flavor of HD.

[AgeZero]

I have been using the Dell 2405 on a dual G5 2.5 ( with Nvidia 6800 Ultra DDL) and a 20" Apple cinema display and have had good results with both. Ultimately, I feel the apple display yields richer colors without tweaking, but I don't like the protective coating the cinema display has. I can see an almost sparkling coating that is only noticeable while looking at white windows. I have just sold the apple 20" on ebay and will be getting a second Dell 2405 in order to view 1080 footage. Bang for the buck, it is a great display. Yes it is slightly more washed out than the cinema display, but that may be fixable with gamma/brightness/contrast settings.
If you are on a budg....go for the Dell. No worries.

[AgeZero]

oh, and if anyone has any more coupon codes from techbargains or anywhere else...I need one! thanks.

[adaml]

I just received a replacement monitor from Dell. It doesn't seem to have the tint issues, but I still get weird things going on with reds on playback, and graphics in FCP aren't playing cleanly.

[jmfox]

What connection is used for the Dell 24"? I have a G5 tower and would like not to use the DVI connection as it is being used by my broadcast crt.

jmf

[videoteque73]

The Dell accepts DVI, VGA, component, Y/C

[adaml]

Okay, got it working! Here's the deal: The Dell 24" hooked up the the single-link DVI has issues. This is where the pink/red/graphics/playback problems happen. Hooked to the dual-link DVI port it works great, looks awesome, no problems. The single link DVI port hooked to the monitor through a VGA adapter to the VGA port on the monitor works fine. It doesn't look quite as good as the DVI-connected monitor but there aren't any issues as before. Both connected at the same time (one 24" DVI to port 1, one 24" VGA to port 2) works fine. But apparently the stock video card on the G5 Quad will not support satisfactorily a 24" Dell with DVI connection on port 2. Hope this information is useful to somebody. If somehow I'm stupid and this is common knowledge then forgive me. If it should work with DVI on port 2 and mine is an aberation then please let me know so I can report it to Apple.
Thanks

[evinsky]

So what's the best compromise?
What should I get if I need to playback and Color correct both HD and SD material with one monitor? I would get the 2405 and a Deck Link but this seems to only be viable as an HD solution. Do I really have to have two monitors for playback? I don't care about size, what about getting a Samsung 26" HD Tube? This won't do 1080 Native but probably comes close enough and could be calibrated, No?

Barry?
Anyone?

[Edelweiss]

adaml: that sounds horrible, I was planning to get one and connect it to a powerbook. Can anybody else comment whether the 2405FPW indeed looks pink connected to a Mac?

[adaml]

I haven't heard of this problem from anyone else, but it certainly was my experience.

[TC]

So what's the best compromise?
What should I get if I need to playback and Color correct both HD and SD material with one monitor? I would get the 2405 and a Deck Link but this seems to only be viable as an HD solution. Do I really have to have two monitors for playback? I don't care about size, what about getting a Samsung 26" HD Tube? This won't do 1080 Native but probably comes close enough and could be calibrated, No?Why would it not be satisfactory for SD?

[Photonic]

adaml: that sounds horrible, I was planning to get one and connect it to a powerbook. Can anybody else comment whether the 2405FPW indeed looks pink connected to a Mac?
I have both a 23" Apple HD Cinema Display (the new one) and the DELL 2405FPW, and I can tell you I MUCH prefer the DELL for the following reasons:

1. The uniformity across the (DELL's) screen is MUCH better than the Apple.
2. The color uniformity is also much better than the Apple; using SuperCal, I have a very neutral monitor (no pink cast, or any other cast).
3. The DELL's has a three year warranty vs one year with the Apple.
4. The DELL cost $ 834 delivered to my door.
5. The DELL has a built-in card reader.
6. The DELL pivots from landscape to portrait, and my ATi 9800 video card supports display rotation.

I'm a die-hard Apple fan & Mac user, but Apple has consistently over-promised & under-delivered in the area of monitors, IMHO.

Kevin

[ArkhamFilms]

But apparently the stock video card on the G5 Quad will not support satisfactorily a 24" Dell with DVI connection on port 2. Hope this information is useful to somebody. If somehow I'm stupid and this is common knowledge then forgive me. If it should work with DVI on port 2 and mine is an aberation then please let me know so I can report it to Apple.
Thanks

Works fine on my Quad G5, both on port 1 & 2. I'll be getting my second 24" Dell on Monday, and will hook both the to G5. I'll let you know if I find any problems.

-CJ

[ArkhamFilms]

adaml: that sounds horrible, I was planning to get one and connect it to a powerbook. Can anybody else comment whether the 2405FPW indeed looks pink connected to a Mac?

Looks fine on my G5 & G4. No pinkish hue here.

-CJ

[adaml]

Should have my Quad checked out? Sounds like it.

[obendega]

Just when the 2405FPW prices become reasonable...

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000240070831/

Hopefully this will bring the 2405FPW price down even more. 30 inches though??? Hard to resist.

-Justin O'Neill
www.podsafeaudio.com

[insanityfw]

Just when the 2405FPW prices become reasonable...

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000240070831/

Hopefully this will bring the 2405FPW price down even more. 30 inches though??? Hard to resist.

-Justin O'Neill
www.podsafeaudio.com


Damn! My 2405FPW is on its way in the mail. Should be here Tuesday, but the 21st of December isn't too far away for the other one. I was thinking about the Apple 30", but it was too much $. If Dell makes the 30" for under two grand I'll be happy and sad all at the same time. I'm sure the 24" will be great, but there's no subsititute for square inches. :)

[Rich Lee]

nice! that monitor looks slick!

[TC]

nice! that monitor looks slick!You're tellin' me. I'm just waiting for another coupon.

[jpsheets]

Whew! Thanks for that post, I was this close to ordering the 24' monitor!

[phd]

Its look nice but I am satisfied with my Dell 2405 :beer:

[TC]

Ya know, I'll probably go with the 2405... it'll probably become even cheaper now.

Where's the latest 2405 coupon!?

[Jaime Valles]

The 2405 is the perfect resolution for 1080 HD. You're probably better off getting two 24" monitors than one 30", especially for video editing.

Still, I can feel my mouth watering at the thought of the 30" monitor.

Man, this is like porn for us!

[obendega]

Apparently Dell is releasing updated 2005FP and 2405FPs in the near future as well. They will be named 2007WFP and 2405WFP respectively.

This may be of interest to some of you as it looks like the 2407WFP will support HDCP through it's DVI input.

Porn indeed. ; )

Here is a thread on this over at Ars Technica: http://episteme.arstechnica.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/67909965/m/309003266731

-Justin O'Neill
www.podsafeaudio.com

[ArkhamFilms]

Should have my Quad checked out? Sounds like it.


Just got my second Dell 24". Both are running off my Quad G5 with no problems.

Cheers.

-CJ

[insanityfw]

I just got the Dell 24" and man is it clear. Almost too clear :)

Not much taller than my 19's but WAY wider. I'm going to have to get one more.

Amazing, but mine runs really hot. Anybody else have that problem? I've had it on for about an hour now and it's about five times hotter than my second monitor. Even if I have to get it a fan it will be worth it.

[iposiniditos]

I just got my 2405FPW and i'm surprised! Very good lcd indeed.
I just have one question for those who use the 2405FPW with mac.
Is there a way to make the card reeder to work with Mac OS X 10.4.3?
Do i have to do something special. A driver maybe?

Thanks a lot in advance!

[Michael Mann]

do you know what the refresh rate is?


It's 60 Hz! Cannot be set to 50 Hz! This monitor is no choice for PAL users!

[insanityfw]

I just got my 2405FPW and i'm surprised! Very good lcd indeed.
I just have one question for those who use the 2405FPW with mac.
Is there a way to make the card reeder to work with Mac OS X 10.4.3?
Do i have to do something special. A driver maybe?

Thanks a lot in advance!
My card slot work like a champ on my Mac. I think I'm running 10.4 as well and it's on a dual 2.0 which shouldn't matter.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but did you run the usb extension from the monitor to the computer? I run into low-usb-power problems all the time with my set up.

cheers,

J.

[phd]

My Dell 2405 have PAL 50 Hz, see the instruction, when you use S-Video or Composite

[iposiniditos]

My card slot work like a champ on my Mac. I think I'm running 10.4 as well and it's on a dual 2.0 which shouldn't matter.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but did you run the usb extension from the monitor to the computer? I run into low-usb-power problems all the time with my set up.

cheers,

J.

Thanks a lot insanityfw for your answer. The problem was the memory stick that i tried. It was damaged. I gave it back to it's owner and he told me that it didn't play in the camera too. I just try with another and all ok!

My mistake, i had to try with multiple cards before post.

Thanks a lot again for your answer!

[Barry_Green]

I found that the Dell has the ability to display a 720p signal at pixel-for-pixel accurate sizing too. There's three choices for display, either "fill" (where it stretches the image to fill the full screen, or "aspect" (where it stretches the image as large as it can while maintaining the proper aspect ratio) or "1:1" (where it keeps the image pixel-for-pixel accurate). In 1:1 mode, a 720p signal still gives you the equiv. of about a 15" monitor.

[PappasArts]

I want to buy this monitor, anyone know where I can get this at a good price. Thanks guys..

Can it only be bought online too?



LINK TO XLH1 MATERIAL: http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/

[boo]

pappas system,

you can get the dell right now for $879. $100 more than before, but still a great deal in my book!

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=24053YR&c=us&l=en&cs=04&category_id=2999&page=external

[insanityfw]

I want to buy this monitor, anyone know where I can get this at a good price. Thanks guys..

Can it only be bought online too?



LINK TO XLH1 MATERIAL: http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/


I bought two off of ebay for about $830 a piece including shipping. I bought each from a different seller and only from those that had great records. I stayed away from the sellers selling for $700, but then charging $150 for shipping.

The new price from Dell is pretty nice as well, especially if you get free shipping.

In my hummble opinion these monitors are worth it.

[redindian]

there are a few coupons around the net which gives a couple of % off...

http://snipurl.com/ebatecoup (2% off) + $5 off for ebate account.
fatwallet used to have 3% coupons...

[Justyn]

So, has anyone hooked it up to an HVX yet? This is the monitor I'm buying as a 2nd computer and field monitor/studio jobby job. Do you think it's too heavy to lug on set?
And do you think it could be mounted to a C-stand plate and be pretty study?

I found out this is my birthday present this month so I'm stoked. I asked for the 200 but got laughed at.. Maybe I should plan to extort money out of the folks by telling them .. if you want to see ya grandkids then buy this .... HD thingy.





J

[Barry_Green]

Yes I've used it with the HVX. It works pretty well, for the price. It isn't ideal, and it's a little heavy, but nothing like a CRT would be. Not bad, overall. Especially for the $800 price.

[Haakon]

Barry, curious as to why it's not "ideal." Do you mean because of its size, it's not very easy to lug around as a production monitor on a set, or is the picture not even ideal for editing use in a home studio?

I'm thinking of purchasing one of these as well, but if the picture doesn't cut it, there isn't much point. It's natively 1920x1200 right?

[Barry_Green]

It is, yes. And as a computer monitor it is perfect.

As a video monitor -- well, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not a BT-LH1700W, you know? It does a fairly lousy job of scaling up SD, although its HD looks pretty good.

The picture appears to be a little overscanned; the viewfinder and the captured frame do not line up with what the monitor displays. It's close, but not exact. I think there's probably nothing like it for the price; the 1700 is 3x to 3.5x the price. The Dell is pretty nifty in that it provides for split-screen and P.I.P. and DVI and component and s-video and composite, plus it's got memory card readers for all the major formats... I mean, it's a fantastic tool. It's just not necessarily the ideal video production monitor. It's not bad, it's just not necessarily ideal.

But on a bang-for-the-buck basis it's hard to beat.

[Justyn]

Barry,

I didn't know it does split sceen. How does that work? And do you think it could be A and B'd from like a laptop clip or waveforrm info through DVI scope and then some video back to the component video? Or more coherently as I don't know if I make sense with that idea, but is it easy to toggle back and forth between computer input and component?

I have to get a monitor and cheap is KING. Have you thought of a suitable C-stand mounting solution and battery supply?


Thanks for the awesome info

Justyn


It is, yes. And as a computer monitor it is perfect.

As a video monitor -- well, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not a BT-LH1700W, you know? It does a fairly lousy job of scaling up SD, although its HD looks pretty good.

The picture appears to be a little overscanned; the viewfinder and the captured frame do not line up with what the monitor displays. It's close, but not exact. I think there's probably nothing like it for the price; the 1700 is 3x to 3.5x the price. The Dell is pretty nifty in that it provides for split-screen and P.I.P. and DVI and component and s-video and composite, plus it's got memory card readers for all the major formats... I mean, it's a fantastic tool. It's just not necessarily the ideal video production monitor. It's not bad, it's just not necessarily ideal.

But on a bang-for-the-buck basis it's hard to beat.

[Barry_Green]

Split-screen's in the menus, so's P-I-P; it's of somewhat limited value because you only have one input of each type, so you can't send two component signals in and side-by-side them, only one.

I'd imagine a large Matthews c-stand platform would work for it; the footprint of the stand is about a foot wide by maybe 8" deep (wild guess). For power? Where there's AC there's a way, right? I don't know if it has any sort of DC input, you could maybe run it off an inverter but it'd probably have to be a pretty decent caliber inverter.

[zoostory]

I'm using this monitor right now. It's great! It comes out of the box way to bright for me, bit easily callibrated. I actually like it better than the apple cinema displays we use at school. OF course, for 2 grand , the dell 30" is out now... I want one!

[Justyn]

Barry,

Thanks so much for all your info. I tell ya, I got to mess around with the HVX on Wednesday and I had dreams about it. It was also so plenstly fat and chunky.. reminded me of the Arri BL my roomate had in school. I'm personally not mad about any delays... I have more time to sell Plasma to raise the cash...


Once again your info and insight is appreciate.


Justyn

[Justyn]

With the 30 inch and a G5, do you need the higher end graphics card like you do on the cinema display? I am probably gonna get the 24 inch and this 30 later in the year.. but that one will have to sit like a good little monitor in the studio. Lugging that wouldn't be fun i'm sure.... As was as the sony CRT I really liked for price and picture, but at 45 pounds... no field monitor there..


Barry, any plans to test out that Marshall camera mount LCD that looks pretty sweet for the cash?



J

[nsoltz]

FWIW, just noted that Dell has another sale on 2405FPW. $879 shipped. Search for item 24053YR on Dell site. I have no idea how long this price is valid.

Ned Soltz

[PappasArts]

I Just ordered the monitor!

Thanks guys

[aquafox]

I'd just like to note that the new 30" Dell doesn't have any video inputs, as reported by HDForIndies.com. So it won't be usable as a camera monitor, only through DVI.

[Haakon]

As a video monitor -- well, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not a BT-LH1700W, you know?
Actually, I'm completely baffled as to why the BT-LH1700W costs so much. I will state up front that monitors are probably the one item in the chain that I understand technically the least, but after doing research on something to use in the field for the HVX, I'm left scratching my head.

The BT-LH1700W is an LCD monitor, which means it's not going to look as nice as a CRT. It's natively 1280x768, so it's got to down-res to display 1080 footage, and isn't going to show you the resolution the camera is capable of. And it's 17". For all that, it costs $3,400.

The Dell is 24", it's natively 1920x1200, and it's under $900. What on earth gives?

(I realize the Panny has more professional connectors and a waveform monitor... but is that worth $2,300?)

Obviously there's something I'm missing... please, tell me how this stuff works.


It does a fairly lousy job of scaling up SD, although its HD looks pretty good.
Well, I'm looking for something to monitor the HVX with on set (I'm really concerned about focus with the camera, and the director needs a monitor anyway), so I'm primarily going to be shooting HD-only. That being said, I may very well shoot 720pN most of the time, since that's where the variable framerates are and I get more recording time out of it. However, if the output of the camera is 720p and displayed on this monitor, it's going to have to be uprezzed too, right? Is there an option to just display the footage in its native size in the middle of the screen so there's no conversion going on (unlike most people, I could care less if it's filling the screen; I want as accurate a picture as possible)? I think I read somewhere that the analog component output of the camera can be cross-converted to 1080 while shooting in 720; is that also "uprezzing" on the fly? What's the difference in quality between outputting at the same resolution you're shooting or the higher one? Am I better off cross-converting in the camera or on the monitor?


The picture appears to be a little overscanned; the viewfinder and the captured frame do not line up with what the monitor displays. It's close, but not exact.
I'm curious, if the display is natively 1920x1200 and the max output of the camera is 1920x1080, then wouldn't that mean there's extra space on the monitor horizontally? And if so, how could there be overscanning taking place? If there's extra space, is the picture letterboxxed on the top and the bottom, or is the picture "zoomed in" to fill the screen, and thereby cutting off part of the side to achieve a picture that uses every pixel on the monitor? I'm most concerned above all that the picture I'm seeing is as close to accurate in a pixel-for-pixel ratio from the camera than anything else. I'd like the monitor to be functional in this way for both 720 and 1080 modes, and I'm trying to learn if this is even possible. If not, is there a "native 720" monitor to use in the field that also has component inputs for use with the HVX?

Sorry for the hoards of questions... there are a lot of confusing variables with these monitors and I want to make sure I'm getting what I want before plunking down another grand for it. Since there seem to be a lot of people on this forum with this specific monitor (and people who use them in a production environment as well), I figure this is the best place to get the information. Frankly, size doesn't matter that much to me. Anything 17" and up is fine. I don't need a 42" monitor on set to judge the picture. But I do want something that's as accurate as possible to judge focus and does as little conversion as possible to give the best quality that is obtainable from the camera in a LIVE workflow. I don't have 3 grand to blow, so something like the BT-LH1700W is totally out of the picture (though I'd want a 1080 display anyway). Thanks in advance for your replies.

[Mr. E. Trane]

I am definitely confused about this whole monitoring thing.

One thing I have not read much (if anything about) on this forum is the use of an LCD projector for postproduction monitoring (including color correction). There are several 720p Native projectors out there now for street prices around $2300. Panasonic makes one that has received overall good reviews, especially for its “color accuracy and saturation”. Link to review follows:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae900.htm

Is there some compelling reason not to monitor 720p material on an LCD projector? I mean 100” diagonal as appose to 17”? Understandably not everyone would have the space for a 100” screen, but if you do… why not?

Also, what exactly makes a monitor HD ready? I have a Mitsubishi CRT computer monitor from about 4 or 5 years ago that supports resolutions at least up to 1920 x 1080. Why is it unsuitable for HD monitoring? Is it in color accuracy? Is there something about “HD ready” CRT/LCD’s that makes their color reproduction more accurate?

And hey, since I’m on it… what exactly differentiates a “Professional” monitor from one for computer use? Are HDTV’s good enough to monitor on? If they are what makes them any different from all the other technologies?

Sorry for all the questions but after long searching on this subject I’m finding any type of definitive answer on this subject elusive and I’m just trying to get a grasp on all this.

Thanks for any info you might have-

Trane

[Barry_Green]

Actually, I'm completely baffled as to why the BT-LH1700W costs so much.
Well, on the contrary, it costs about $2,000 less than the competitive Sony. Things like HD-SDI and the like drive up the cost.


The BT-LH1700W is an LCD monitor, which means it's not going to look as nice as a CRT.
Well, "nice" is probably true, but it'll probably look a lot more accurate. CRTs are very gentle on your footage, and show it in its best light -- but they do not show it accurately. CRTs hide a multitude of sins. If you want a client monitor for a client to be happy, a CRT's a good choice for that (even though they're nearly extinct in the high-def world). But if you want something that'll show you what your footage really looks like, an LCD will come a lot closer.


It's natively 1280x768, so it's got to down-res to display 1080 footage, and isn't going to show you the resolution the camera is capable of.
Well, yes. And that's disappointing, obviously I'd rather it be a native 1080p panel, but there are very few of those in existence.

And it's 17". For all that, it costs $3,400.
Yes, but -- compare a 9" CRT monitor of any quality (like the Sony 9L3) and it's $1,000. A 9" CRT consumer TV might be $49. There's a difference. And it's not really $3400, it's more like $2700 street.


The Dell is 24", it's natively 1920x1200, and it's under $900. What on earth gives?
The Panasonic is a video monitor designed to show the video gamut of high def, it offers HD-SDI input, it offers 709 colorspace, it offers a built-in waveform monitor, all sorts of things.

The Dell is a computer monitor. Does a good job for a computer monitor, and it does a pretty good job of a high-def video monitor too. For the price, if price is a concern, the Dell's the much better bang for the buck. But it's not a dedicated professional high-def LCD video monitor.


However, if the output of the camera is 720p and displayed on this monitor, it's going to have to be uprezzed too, right?
Sort of. You won't ever see the pixel-for-pixel display on the Dell (or, well, frankly, any monitor). You're going to see the analog output converted back to digital (so D-to-A-to-D). As part of that initial conversion the upconvert from subsampled 960 up to full-rez 1280 is going to take place, then that will be converted to analog. So if you want to see pixel-for-pixel-accuracy, the only way to get there would be through the firewire and an NLE.

Is there an option to just display the footage in its native size in the middle of the screen so there's no conversion going on (unlike most people, I could care less if it's filling the screen; I want as accurate a picture as possible)?
Yes, the Dell has the option of displaying it in 1:1 size, so it would become effectively about a 15" monitor with a basically-native-res image. But again, it's going to be an analog image that it samples and converts to digital to display.


I think I read somewhere that the analog component output of the camera can be cross-converted to 1080 while shooting in 720; is that also "uprezzing" on the fly?
Yes you can do that too. And yes there'd be some uprezzing involved somehow.


What's the difference in quality between outputting at the same resolution you're shooting or the higher one? Am I better off cross-converting in the camera or on the monitor?
Don't know, I'd have to try it. I would suspect the camera would do a better job, since the scaler in the monitor doesn't appear to be the best. 720p displayed full-screen looks pretty good, but 480p scaled up looks dreadful.


I'm curious, if the display is natively 1920x1200 and the max output of the camera is 1920x1080, then wouldn't that mean there's extra space on the monitor horizontally?
Extra space vertically. 60 pixels top and bottom.

And if so, how could there be overscanning taking place?
Because it's not a digital signal, it's an analog signal, and so in the D-to-A process there's a possibility that the analog scanning is not 100% accurate, or it's possible that in the digital capture of that analog scan it's not doing it 100% accurate.

There is no digital connection between the camera and the monitor. On the Panasonic, there is the possibility of a direct digital connection, HD-SDI. But without HD-SDI output from the HVX, it's pretty much irrelevant.


If there's extra space, is the picture letterboxxed on the top and the bottom, or is the picture "zoomed in" to fill the screen, and thereby cutting off part of the side to achieve a picture that uses every pixel on the monitor?
Your choice. It can display it in the proper aspect ratio, leaving thin letterbox bars, or it can zoom in (but it doesn't zoom the sides off, it just vertically stretches it to fit).


I'm most concerned above all that the picture I'm seeing is as close to accurate in a pixel-for-pixel ratio from the camera than anything else.
Then what you really, really want is Serious Magic HD Rack. Too bad it doesn't exist yet! :angry: That's the only way you're going to see the actual pixels. Well, that or an NLE. Firewire is the only digital output, and the only way you're going to get pixel information.


I'd like the monitor to be functional in this way for both 720 and 1080 modes, and I'm trying to learn if this is even possible.
Yes it can pretty much do that, within the restriction that you're not transferring pixels over! You're transferring an analog conversion of the pixels.


If not, is there a "native 720" monitor to use in the field that also has component inputs for use with the HVX?
I'm sure there are many. But none will offer a digital pixel transfer. It's always analog.

[Justyn]

Barry,

Some great info there. I was curious about some of that. I've decided on getting the dell this month. Has anyone bought one from Ebay? Seems a bit cheaper there than on the dell site?

Also, I know this is a weird question, but do you think it's easy enough to rip off or take off the Dell logo on the front? Part of what I'm going to shoot will involve a monitor as well. I could stick some gaff over it, but I'd like to take it off and put the logo of the show on the monitor. Besides, being a Mac guy kind of want to keep the monitor a secret... SSSSHHHH.


Thanks again. I do think this is the best value right now. I need both a computer monitor and a field monitor. This thing will do the trick. I did also check and as Barry suggested, Mathews has a C-stand adapter plate that will work with this. I'm stoked.


J

[danny dale]

Besides, being a Mac guy kind of want to keep the monitor a secret... SSSSHHHH.


for the Mac people - just found this @ HDforidies. you can now connect the HVX to an Apple Cinema Display (20" & 23")...

http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/01/07/gefen.hd.connectivity/

"The new HD-Mate acts as the interface between multiple HDTV sources and an Apple Cinema Display. It supports high definition resolutions up to 1920x1080i and comes equipped with one DVI and two component inputs that connect satellite television systems, camcorders, DVD players and gaming systems such as the Xbox 360. A total of three HD sources can be connected at the same time using the HD-Mate, which allows the user to easily switch between sources using a simple push-button menu on the unit itself. It features intuitive on-screen menu pages, accessible through the menu buttons on the HD-Mate unit, to offer image adjustments to accommodate different view outputs and screen sizes.
In addition, the HD-Mate enables the 20- and 23-inch Apple Cinema Displays to function with full HDTV capability, displaying HD images with uncompromised quality and resolution. A model supporting the 30-inch Cinema Displays is already in development. The HD-Mate is expected to ship later this month for $300."

looks interesting...

[Justyn]

Danny,

Will it only work with cinema displays or any DVI or component monitor like this dell. I think looks cool but not if it only works with apple monitors.


J

[danny dale]

Danny,

Will it only work with cinema displays or any DVI or component monitor like this dell. I think looks cool but not if it only works with apple monitors.


J

don't know that... i went to Gefen's site but it is not listed there. the article was at a mac site (MacNN) and only says Apple Cinema Displays, but isn't DVI just DVI? i mean, a standard/universal connection? if i had to guess i would think so...

[Justyn]

Danny,

I bet we'll find out soon enough. For those interested, I just found out a cheap way to build a monitor plate for a C-stand. It just takes 3 parts. First is a custom built platform that is slightly larger than the footprint of the LCD and it should have a lip on it for slippage.. and possibly a bungy system just to make sure. This platform is then screwed into a 6 inch baby stud grip equipment.. which then slides into a standard grip head. Asides from the grip head which I already have, this shouldn't cost me more than 25 bucks for a good stable monitor stand. I might do this on a moving dolly at somepoint as well.. or just use a magliner.


J

[PappasArts]

Does anyone know how to play DVD's from a stand alone player like the samung into the DVI input without the coyp right protection preventing from doing so. I'm using the Samsung DVD-HD841 with dvi out.

thanks

[Haakon]

Barry, thanks again for all of your help. I just got my 2405 in the mail, and it's beautiful. I'm used to seeing 1920x1200 on my small 15" laptop, so I've found I wish I could squeeze even more resolution out of this puppy! But it certainly is nice to have a big, clear workspace on my desktop.

I'm curious, Dell also sells LCD TVs, but the biggest one - 37" (which dwarfs both the 24" and brand-new 30" monitors) has a screen resolution of only 1366x768! I've noticed that nearly all LCD TVs (from any manufacturer) are like this. If it was a matter of not having the technology to make a higher resolution LCD panel at an affordable price I could understand - but I'm looking at a 1920x1200 picture on a 24" LCD monitor on my desktop at this very moment so I know that's not the case. Besides the fact that it's got a tuner and speakers (which are probably subpar at best), why would anyone buy an LCD "TV" when they could have an LCD "monitor" at the same cost or less? The 24" Dell even has component inputs!

[boo]

haakon, try editing/viewing on this:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11042448&whse=&topnav=&browse=&s=1 :beer:

[PappasArts]

Barry, thanks again for all of your help. I just got my 2405 in the mail, and it's beautiful. I'm used to seeing 1920x1200 on my small 15" laptop, so I've found I wish I could squeeze even more resolution out of this puppy! But it certainly is nice to have a big, clear workspace on my desktop.




You got one too! The 2405 has made my others now look like shiat!

[Haakon]

You got one too! The 2405 has made my others now look like shiat!
Yeah, I just decided to bite the bullet and get one... I figured I could always return it if it just didn't work out for me.

Problem is, I bought it to use as a field monitor for the HVX (and what a huge field monitor it would be!!) and now I'm never going to want it to leave my desktop. Lol...

I've still yet to see the quality of the HVX through it (as I'm still waiting for my HVX), but that's what I'm still really waiting to see. I've noticed, as many others have said, that SD upconverted on the monitor looks like sh!t, so I'm a little scared as to what even the 720 might look like upconverted as well. However, I played a DV (standard def) file from my computer fullscreen in the native 1080 mode, and that didn't look bad at all. DVDs even look fantastic fullscreen if you play them on the computer (you just can't upconvert from the analog outputs or it looks like crap). So what I'm really hoping is that by using the HVX's component outputs at 1080 (even if I'm recording 720), and displaying the content on the monitor natively at 1080 it will still look very, very good. *Crossing my fingers...*

[Jim Arthurs]

haakon, try editing/viewing on this:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11042448&whse=&topnav=&browse=&s=1 :beer:

I owned one of those briefly, didn't like it. SD scale up was bad, bad, bad, A couple dead pixels, DVI input was hit or miss on three different video cards, even the VGA input didn't work quite right for me.

Cheap plastic build quality, and no auto power down... monitor just goes bright blue when the PC hits sleep mode. Not big enough for the living room, yet too big for a computer monitor at short viewing distance... just a bit off-target for everything, IMO.

However, it's true 1920 by 1080, and hooked up to the HD-SDI output of a NLE via HDLink it would look fantastic for HD monitoring in the right room/environment.

Jim Arthurs

[Haakon]

Hehe, I think he was just finding the crappiest 1920x1200 LCD TV he could find because of my question. I still don't understand why the "reputable" companies don't offer them, however.

[boo]

it's costco...what's there to lose? hehe...love my dual 2405's...

[Haakon]

Barry, any thoughts on the LCD monitor vs. "TV" problem?

[stabwound]

I owned one of those briefly, didn't like it. SD scale up was bad, bad, bad, A couple dead pixels, DVI input was hit or miss on three different video cards, even the VGA input didn't work quite right for me.

Cheap plastic build quality, and no auto power down... monitor just goes bright blue when the PC hits sleep mode. Not big enough for the living room, yet too big for a computer monitor at short viewing distance... just a bit off-target for everything, IMO.

However, it's true 1920 by 1080, and hooked up to the HD-SDI output of a NLE via HDLink it would look fantastic for HD monitoring in the right room/environment.

Jim Arthurs

Rushed out to Costco (in Canada) to check out the Sceptre LCD.

They don't seem to have one... drats.:(

1920 by 1080 for that price is ok by me, even if it is cheap plastic.

[Barry_Green]

Barry, any thoughts on the LCD monitor vs. "TV" problem?
You mean the Sceptre vs. the Dell? No, no idea at all about the Sceptre. Looks like an amazingly low price for such a large panel; but I have no idea how it performs.

[Haakon]

No, not about that. I'm wondering why there are LCD "monitors" (ie, the new 30" Dell display) that go up to 2560x1600, but their biggest LCD "HDTV" (32") is only 1366x768 natively! I've had a laptop with a 1920x1200 screen for two years... it's not like the technology isn't available. And the prices are very comparable, too. With everyone throwing around "1080p" these days, I don't understand why the large majority of LCD TVs are still such low native resolutions - especially when the same company makes LCD monitors with bigger resolutions in smaller sizes. What gives?

[Barry_Green]

Don't know on that one; probably something to do with quantity of manufacturing for computers vs. for homes? But bigger LCDs are on their way (37" 1080p from more than one manufacturer) and SED is supposed to be here within a year, and I think I read that the SED would be introduced at 55". CRT-like shadow and contrast performance, but LCD thin-ness and cheap prices and low heat... sounds promising!

[Haakon]

Yeah, SED looks cool. I just wish they'd make some smaller televisions (I live in an apartment and don't have any room or desire for a 60" TV) that can actually show true 1080 HD. The upconvert on the 24" Dell looks like utter crap, yet an SD file in a "fullscreen" window displayed in the "native 1080" mode of the monitor looks really good. So there's a form of "uprezzing" right there that's more than acceptable. Actually, DVDs played back through the computer out to the 1080 mode look fantastic... you just can't go through those composite/component inputs and expect any results. I wish these companies would make it easier on us...

[doccutter]

That's because the computer is doing the uprezzing instead of the monitor.

[Haakon]

I'd gladly pay $100 extra for an "uprezzing chip" in my monitor that could make lower-than-native-res playback actually look decent.

[SpotBotGun]

Apologies in advance if this has been discussed before- the search engine kept rejecting my query.

I've ordered a 24" Dell and recently found this article on barefeats.com:

http://www.barefeats.com/lcd.html

with a link to:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25117

They essentially say that Final Cut Pro may drop frames when playing back on the Dell 2405fpw at 60hz, but that 60hz is the only refresh rate at which the Dell is capable of displaying 1920x1080.

Anyone experience this? Will it be a problem?

Please disregard if you've already been through this.
Thanks.

[dolby]

I am running 2 Dell 24"s on my FCP machine and have never noticed a single dropped frame.

Maybe Apple is upset that Dell has a better monitor at half their price? Hmmm


dolby

[cre8tive]

I read that SED and OLED monitors due out in a year or two have the "scan line" problem when you shoot the monitor with a video camera.

Likely, there will be an easy shutter speed that takes care of it, but it was sure nice to be able to shoot the LCD and plasma monitors without the worry over this problem.

Just what I read...don't know if it's gospel or not.

Regards,

Cre8tive

[boo]

if anyone's interested, dell currently has refurbished 2405's for $798 w/ free shipping:

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventorySearch?c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh&lob=MON

[redindian]

Now, costco carries it....$879.....

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?whse=&topnav=&prodid=11099424&ec=BC-EC877-CatHome&pos=7

[puredrifting]

Hi all:

Has anyone use the Dell with a Z1's component outputs yet as a field monitor?

I know that the Dell's downconvert ability is pretty limited and that SD sources plugged into it's analog component look crappy. But what about component HD? One of the editors here plugged one of the Z1s into their consumer Sony 24" LCD here and it looked decent, definitely good enough to shoot with since you could actually see what was in focus.

Does anyone know if the HVX-200 features the same sort of analog HD output that the Z1 has?

Best,

Dan

[Barry_Green]

Does anyone know if the HVX-200 features the same sort of analog HD output that the Z1 has?
It does, and it does work with the Dell.

[puredrifting]

That's great information Barry. Now, the next question is, how does it look? I am much more concerned about focus. We have been shooting a lot with the Z1s and our NTSC field monitors and frankly, we are shooting blind as far as focus. I finally examined some of our HDV interview footage on a real HD monitor directly out of the Z1 and it was scary at how what looked fine in NTSC is really soft in HD.

So I am terrified of shooting with the HVX-200 and not being able to really see what we are doing as far as focus.

So what say you, any indications on if the component analog ins on the Dell would look decent as far as being able to judge focus?

Dan

[Haakon]

Well, I bought the Dell for that very purpose, so I'm crossing my fingers that it will be good enough... :thumbsup:

[Barry_Green]

For focus, yes. Not 100% sure about colorimetry etc., but for focus it's very well suited for that.

You are right to be concerned, as focus is hypercritical on HD; it is completely unforgiving of focus errors. NTSC monitors are nowhere near up to the task of assuring you that you have tight critical focus on HD. However, I have found that it's pretty easy to get perfect focus on the HVX even without a monitor -- turn on EVF DTL, zoom in 100%, and turn on the magnified "focus assist" function, and dial in focus. Then zoom back out and shoot. Using that technique has worked extremely well even without a monitor.

[boo]

Hi Barry,

You don't need the HD-SDI option to view HD on the L5 series (1080/24, 1080i, 1035i, 720p, 480p, 480i) The analog HD looks great, I've pushed all flavors of HD into the monitor, it is a HD monitor straight out of the box. I found that Ross Digital makes a much more affordable HD-SDI input for the L5 if you need a digital HD in.

lightshow, billp, others who own the PVM-14L5,

how do you have your monitor hooked up to your editing system for viewing? isn't a card attached to your computer needed in order to accomplish this? The Dell has dvi so an hdlink and blackmagic card would be needed. what about for the Sony monitor mentioned above w/ only component(and i wouldn't want to get the optional sdi board because of $$$)?