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7DDude
06-10-2017, 12:36 PM
OK, I'll explain this the best I can, I have a client (Business Friend) that has shot a full length feature film, (114 Minutes Approximate) On Red Scarlet Cameras, in Red Raw. UHD 4K, there are 11 days of shooting, two cameras were used, The client knows that I have not edited a feature film just small business videos, However, He is in need of getting this done and is willing to give me the opportunity, to edit it. He asked how long it would take. Researching and thinking this through, I estimated about 3-4 months. My responsibilities, Create a couple of SAG actor Demo-Reels, Complete Editing, Open Sequence, Closing Sequence, Trailer, Sound editing ( All Audio was shot off camera and needs to be synced), Color-Grading. I want to do this project, and I have the time to do it, I'm semi-retired. They have stated they would pay some up front costs, plus a possible % of profits, all negotiable, could also be a flat fee, with part down and balance on completion, what ever is negotiated.

I have a fast enough system to handle it, I have imported a few clips to see how Red Raw works, I'm using Adobe Premiere Pro CC 2017. I don't expect an exact answer here, I'm just not wanting to throw the " The Baby Out With The Bath Water"

So, What should I charge? I'm all ears, and thanks for the help! :happy:

Cary Knoop
06-10-2017, 12:56 PM
Since you have no experience editing a feature film I would think for 3-4 months work, which to me seems a rather large amount of time, you should charge somewhere between 20-25K.

I would forget about getting a % of the profits.

7DDude
06-10-2017, 02:03 PM
Since you have no experience editing a feature film I would think for 3-4 months work, which to me seems a rather large amount of time, you should charge somewhere between 20-25K.

I would forget about getting a % of the profits.

Thank you Very Much! What would you think would be a fair amount of time considering my inexperience?

deltoidjohn
06-14-2017, 01:07 AM
You might want to get a bit more information from him about expectations first before you quote anything - questions like "Will he provide a paper edit?" If he just expects to hand you a hard drive with all the footage, and a copy of their shooting script, it will be a totally different job than if he's already sorted all rushes into scenes and given you a paper edit outlining all the selected takes and timecode in/out point, along with corresponding audio files. Find out things like whether or not they have used clappers & timecode sync when recording audio, or if there's any scratch sound, as this can have a massive effect on your workload. Also ask to preview some footage first and make sure it is up to standard - this way you might dodge a bullet if he's expecting you to polish a turd. Make sure you tell him what scenes you'd like to preview, as his ability to find the source material will tell you a lot about how organised the project is!

If you're doing the audio you'll also want to find out how they want their sfx & score done - have they already recorded foley? Do they have wild tracks or do you need to find/create background mixes? Will he pay for or provide access to extensive sfx & music libraries? Or is all of this included in your total fee?

For jobs where I am doing all the editing, including VFX/compositing and audio, I usually quote for one day per minute. (So 90 days for a 1.5 hour film). Any music/audio/stock material is charged on top of this at cost. I've never done a feature - though have used this rate to calculate for 10x30min TV programs. So to me, 3-4 months sounds about right - and Cary's estimate of 25K sits close to the ballpark of what I charge (converted to USD, that is).

paulears
06-14-2017, 02:18 AM
It's a quarter of your income for the year. In a way this does set the rate if it's essentially your day job for 3 months. 25K - if it's all profit might sound good - but is it all profit - take off a quarter of your year's expenses?

I'm not sure how you can predict a time scale for something you have never done before. I know how quickly I work - but this project relies on huge numbers of other contributors and waiting for them and organising delivery dates will be very difficult. Is somebody composing the music - how about Foley work? Is there some kind of master plan? Do you need to complete certain sections first, so they can be used for marketing? Which scenes are going to be bottlenecks - what will these squeeze points involve. How simple will it actually be? A lovely pleasant movie could have very simple edits, and be amazingly quick if sound, pictures, music and other treatment sit well together. If it involves dialogue replacement, effects and cleverness - what's the plan.

I don't think I could produce a budget proposal from any of the info we have here.

Publimix
06-14-2017, 09:55 AM
Paulears is right. I think you can win time and effort by planning this job carefully (with the client.). Try to cover all the 'what if's'.

When you are learning fast you are experienced within a few weeks.

7DDude
06-14-2017, 11:09 AM
You might want to get a bit more information from him about expectations first before you quote anything - questions like "Will he provide a paper edit?" If he just expects to hand you a hard drive with all the footage, and a copy of their shooting script, it will be a totally different job than if he's already sorted all rushes into scenes and given you a paper edit outlining all the selected takes and timecode in/out point, along with corresponding audio files. Find out things like whether or not they have used clappers & timecode sync when recording audio, or if there's any scratch sound, as this can have a massive effect on your workload. Also ask to preview some footage first and make sure it is up to standard - this way you might dodge a bullet if he's expecting you to polish a turd. Make sure you tell him what scenes you'd like to preview, as his ability to find the source material will tell you a lot about how organised the project is!

If you're doing the audio you'll also want to find out how they want their sfx & score done - have they already recorded foley? Do they have wild tracks or do you need to find/create background mixes? Will he pay for or provide access to extensive sfx & music libraries? Or is all of this included in your total fee?

For jobs where I am doing all the editing, including VFX/compositing and audio, I usually quote for one day per minute. (So 90 days for a 1.5 hour film). Any music/audio/stock material is charged on top of this at cost. I've never done a feature - though have used this rate to calculate for 10x30min TV programs. So to me, 3-4 months sounds about right - and Cary's estimate of 25K sits close to the ballpark of what I charge (converted to USD, that is).

Ok, here is the reality of this, I just received the hard drive, and a printed script, The files are stored in the following Hierarchy, Folder: Day-1/Cam-A/Card-1,2,3, and what looks like another folder that is a camera related folder with the Red files in it. Then there is the Day-1/Cam-B/Card-1,2,3, Audio files are all separate and not synced. I have not seen any clapper boards used in any of the shots I have looked at. I hate to ask this question, Go ahead you can snicker, But what is recorded Foley? From what I see, The hardest part or the grunt work here is getting the shots to match the script, which does seem to be written well.

7DDude
06-14-2017, 11:45 AM
Yes, They do want a couple of SAG Actor Demo Reels, 2-3 Minutes Long, They actually want this first.

Barry_Green
06-14-2017, 12:05 PM
Recorded foley is going to be audio that was recorded separately from the video, which is intended to be laid into the soundtrack of the edited program.

7DDude
06-14-2017, 01:54 PM
Recorded foley is going to be audio that was recorded separately from the video, which is intended to be laid into the soundtrack of the edited program.

Thank you Barry! Strange name.

deltoidjohn
06-15-2017, 05:21 AM
Eek, that sounds like a lot of extra work! I'd estimate almost a whole extra month, maybe more. From what you've described, even finding out which clips belong to which scenes could be an exhaustive task. So either add to your quote quote accordingly, or ask the producer if he (or the script supervisor or director or anyone else who was on set or already involved in the production) can sort through the footage first and make it more approachable.

Foley sound is audio effects created in post-production, rather than recorded on set or taken from a licensed library. I believe the strange name comes from the name of the person who invented the technique. A Foley artist usually watches the film (or scenes) once they're edited in sequence and uses a whole collection of items to create sounds that match the imagery, such as footsteps, splashing water, doorknobs etc. Often the sound effects are created by objects that have no relationship to what we see on screen - hence the classic jokes like Monty Python's coconut horse-hooves, or the Simpsons "Cows don't look like cows on film".