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Jarred Land
10-09-2005, 10:18 AM
Click Here To Read Article (http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/hvxupdate/)

Jaime Valles
10-09-2005, 12:28 PM
Awesome. I love the Looping feature.

I'm really excited about getting an HVX with a 4GB P2 card for narrative filmmaking. Cheap as heck, and full 1080/24p 4:2:2 DVCProHD. I really can't wait, except I have to write the screenplay first! THEN I'll buy it. Dammit!!!!!!

silentr
10-09-2005, 02:44 PM
Jarred,

What is the input/output beneath s-video, it looks like hdmi? Just curious, great review I'm waiting on mine.

www.silentr.com

Spec-Comm
10-09-2005, 07:59 PM
It is a D4 connector. It is used for the Component (Y,Cr,Cb) output.

Andrew Hoffman

Flintstone
10-09-2005, 08:23 PM
Cool article! Can't wait until the HVX ships out. I was going to buy the DVX100B next month as a second cam... but I think I'll hold out for a few more months and get the HVX as my main cam instead.

Indeed, a dual 4GB P2 card bundle would tie me up nicely until Firestore comes out with it's DVCProHD update next spring.

[in an Homer Simpson saliving tone]
mmmmm, 4:2:2... must... have... 4... 2... 2...

rbilsbor
10-09-2005, 09:27 PM
Man. Where am I going to find this money.

speedbump
10-09-2005, 09:43 PM
Thanks for the update, guys. Looks like the camera is going to sell itself.

I'm not going to get into my P2 skepticism, other than to say that it looks like Panasonic has found lots of ways to take advantage of the random-access nature of that media, so obviously it delivers value. It will be interesting to see if you can transfer the 'footage' off one P2 card (via firewire?) while the other is being recorded on; that would pretty much put the final nail in the P2 capacity issue.

I saw the camera body a couple weeks ago at a local video convention, and it sure looks like the difference between a town militia conscript and a Roman legionaire. And the hood just screams out, 'Wide screen, baby!'

I'm glad to hear the zoom and focus have been improved.

'December' is when I'm hearing the camera should be in beta form, and January for hittin' the streets. We'll see. Get it as right as you can, Panasonic. Looks like you've got the wind at your back.

speedbump
10-09-2005, 09:44 PM
Oh, another thing: frame rate. I really hope we have a few more rates, like 28 fps... that is some subtle slo mo...

Stevet
10-09-2005, 10:05 PM
Thanks Jarred and Barry. Man this stuff is making it hard to sleep at night!

This is going to be one heck of a camera! I'm also really looking forward to P2.

Thanks for the great read.
Steve

Landon D. Parks
10-09-2005, 11:57 PM
Actually, December is when BH Photo Video will have it for sale, so really that's "Street Available"... At least there website sais the product will be available for shipping in December.

SPZ
10-10-2005, 03:51 AM
Barry and Jarred, was there any cinegamma settings already working on the settings? How do they compare to the dvx? Any lens problems to report? Since Barry tried the JVC already and found the limits of the cheap HD lens, what can you say of this HD Leica lens?

TimurCivan
10-10-2005, 08:09 AM
so i take it it has almost no noise in SD as well?

theos
10-10-2005, 12:14 PM
A big thanks boys . . . . nice coverage!

Chris Messineo
10-10-2005, 04:15 PM
Great information.

I was already on the EVS early order list and now I am officially drooling.

Chris

ronik15
10-10-2005, 07:40 PM
Yeah very nice coverage! I really like it. Is the dynamic range much larger than the one on the DVX?

Rush
10-10-2005, 08:44 PM
Ah! Worshippers at the HVX altar :laugh:

Barry_Green
10-10-2005, 11:11 PM
Cinegamma was not yet implemented. No lens problems to report other than the blue offset shadow mentioned in the article.

Didn't switch it into SD mode, so I don't know, I would expect even less noise in SD mode.

Dynamic range is about the same as on the DVX, which is quite a bit more than I was expecting. We were expecting around 5.5 stops; Panasonic's measured over 7, and that's just with the normal gamma.

Taylor Moore
10-11-2005, 01:10 PM
Great article guys, thanx for the leg work.
Can hardly wait....

Oreo137
10-11-2005, 07:53 PM
How would you grade the electronic zoom? I've only used a DVX-100 once and the electronic zoom was rather slow. Can the speed be adjusted?

TimurCivan
10-12-2005, 01:29 PM
is 5.5 stops considered "video" level DR? what was films DR again just for reference?

slinks
10-12-2005, 01:42 PM
wow that thing is a sexy beast...I want!

ripupthehwy
10-12-2005, 02:50 PM
Sounds like a feature rich min-camera, but what good is all that quality when the p2 cards are soooo limited in how much footage you can record? Unless you are shooting just a few minutes of footage for something like say, a commerical, then this camera is going to need yet another tape machine or external hard drive attached to it in order to handle anything long form. By the time you spend all that money, maybe you're better off buying and Vari-Cam for 65k. ???

I just can't see this camera being that useful for indies and low budget vx100 and XL-2 people. And yet, its not practical for the professionals either. So go ahead and waste your money on something you think is better..but just not quite there.

harddrive
10-12-2005, 03:11 PM
I won't disagree with all the highlighted good points of P2 - BUT after some use strongly feel that P2 AND tape is the holy grail, at least for the next five (?) years. All the instant nature of tapeless is useful to us, but until P2 becomes a consumable item, an archival tape is essential as well. That's why we're going with Firestore and a tape camera for the next few years. Sorry.

slinks
10-12-2005, 07:58 PM
I know this may be a dumb question but would you be able to shoot this cam in HD directly into a laptop using DVrack? I think most likely the answer would yes, correct?

Barry_Green
10-12-2005, 08:43 PM
Sounds like a feature rich min-camera, but what good is all that quality when the p2 cards are soooo limited in how much footage you can record?
The marketplace provides choices. Currently P2 cards are of limited capacity, but that will change. And the FireStore provides substantially more capacity.

I'm sure there are many who would prefer that their record time be compromised, if that means the footage quality be preserved, rather than have their footage quality compromised just so the record time can be extended.

Some people value the footage more than they do the record time. For those who don't, well, HDV is available now. If you value both record time and footage quality, the FireStore will soon be available.

Barry_Green
10-12-2005, 08:47 PM
I won't disagree with all the highlighted good points of P2 - BUT after some use strongly feel that P2 AND tape is the holy grail, at least for the next five (?) years.
Tapeless acquisition is the goal, sure. But tape as a backup doesn't hurt. I always roll the tape when shooting to DV Rack because -- well, why not, actually. Unfortunately HD tape is not the easy commodity that DV tape is. That solution is not so simple.

Tape is not all that cheap (DVDs cost less than half, per gigabyte, than DV tape does). But it is convenient in that it's rolling whenever you're shooting, so it's archiving everything. No doubt that's handy. It'd be great if you could do something similar with the HVX/P2 system; I think the closest you can get is to roll the FireStore and the P2 card at the same time. Not quite the same, as you'd still want to archive the FireStore over to something more permanent at the end of the project.

Barry_Green
10-12-2005, 08:48 PM
I know this may be a dumb question but would you be able to shoot this cam in HD directly into a laptop using DVrack? I think most likely the answer would yes, correct?
DV Rack supports DV only, not HD. They do have an add-on HDV Power Pack which adds HDV capability. But the HD format of the HVX is not HDV. They would have to design a new version of the program to support the DVCPRO-HD format of the HVX. They have expressed interest in doing exactly that, so we anxiously await further updates from them. DV Rack for the HVX would be a "killer app"!

stokestack
10-12-2005, 11:56 PM
Instead of saddling the HVX with a nearly pointless DV-only tape mechanism, they could've run the thing at double or quadruple speed and let us record 50 and 100 megabit-per-second video on it. Even if it were only 50 mb we'd be able to do good SD with it.

Kudos to Panasonic for shunning the HDV boondoggle, but like HDV, they fail to take the obvious step to better quality on tape.

Jarred Land
10-13-2005, 12:54 AM
running DV tape at triple speed is just asking for a wolrd full of pain.

TimurCivan
10-13-2005, 01:45 AM
Stokestack.... youre entering a world of pain.



Yea the dv recording head is already spinning at something like 9,000 RPM. 18,000, 27,000 or 36,000 RPM would mean ...... well, only Dentist drills and Formula1 engines spin in thoes ranges.... and i can imagine rediculous cost to massproduce a tiny machine that can do that.


i dunno just seems like an expensive option.

anyone know the real Spin rate of a DV head?

slinks
10-13-2005, 01:33 PM
DV Rack supports DV only, not HD. They do have an add-on HDV Power Pack which adds HDV capability. But the HD format of the HVX is not HDV. They would have to design a new version of the program to support the DVCPRO-HD format of the HVX. They have expressed interest in doing exactly that, so we anxiously await further updates from them. DV Rack for the HVX would be a "killer app"!

thanks Barry, I can't wait ! Now all I gotta do is save for the cam and DVrack. :P Or sell my relatively new dvx100a :(.

EShy
10-13-2005, 09:50 PM
This is a bad, very bad article... for me, I'm trying to forget this camera exists because I don't want to spend the 8-10k on it right now.
I just hope they don't have a 25 frame rate which will allow me to downsample for PAL output because that would be a killer, no way to avoid this purchase then.

anyway, thanks for the update and the pics, the camera looks very cool, after the final production model is out and some footage is available I might need to find a place to hide.

Jarred Land
10-13-2005, 09:53 PM
EVS takes small children as equal trades for the no P2 HVX package :)

Rush
10-14-2005, 12:28 AM
We have reverted back to chickens and goats; politics and all that :laugh:

EShy
10-14-2005, 11:19 AM
I don't have any spare kids (that I now of) so that won't work

dvpixl
10-14-2005, 07:56 PM
kids?

ian lucero
10-15-2005, 03:10 PM
Thank you for more information on the HVX.

One question about the Pre-Record function. Will you need a P2 card inserted in order to have this work in SD? or does the camera have its own built-in memory for this to work SD or HD? I want to get his camera regardless whether I get a P2 card or need HD features. I'll sell my DVX and get the HVX as my SD camera till I can afford or really need HD then either Rent or purchase a P2 card. The 3 sec Pre-Record feature and better image and over-all design is the best selling point for me. HD is just an option for me at this point. Amazing camera.

Barry_Green
10-15-2005, 03:39 PM
Pre-record is a function of the P2 card. In SD it'll give you six seconds of pre-record.

manglerBMX
10-22-2005, 08:35 AM
i'm gonna go ahead and start visiting the plasma bank this week to get the funds for this. any chance of a larger p2 or is 8gb the max for a while?

Barry_Green
10-22-2005, 11:50 AM
They've said that the 16gb could be announced at this April's NAB. And Samsung(?) made a breakthrough with NAND chip technology, so the 32gb or even 64gb may be coming much sooner than originally anticipated.

JimtheJib
10-24-2005, 12:17 PM
does it record in 60i or actual 60 fps footage?

Barry_Green
10-24-2005, 12:44 PM
Both. Depends on which mode you put it in. 720/60p, or 1080/60i. It does both.

bilgami
11-02-2005, 12:32 AM
I did a google search for p2 cards and i ran across a site that had a list of p2 cards that went up to 128 gb that held up to 8 hrs of video of course it varies depending on what frame rate u shoot but my question is r these 128 gb cards ready for sale already?

Barry_Green
11-02-2005, 01:39 AM
No, that same list you saw also likely included the anticipated timeframe. 128gb cards weren't due to be released until sometime around 2008. However, Samsung has made a breakthrough in NAND technology which will make 32gb SD cards available much, much, much sooner than anticipated (they say 2nd half of next year, which is only 8 months away!) So we could see 128gb P2 cards released in late 2006 possibly, or whenever the 32gb SD cards are in mass production. Expect them to be very, very, very expensive initially.

blckhawk542
11-02-2005, 04:30 PM
Why does everything need to be exspensive?!?!!!!

The HVX is indeed a killer camera that will rape nething in its path but...those cards like killl the buyer...its like buying a printer...

The printer itself is cheap....but the cartredges kill yah...

HVX is..well...not cheap..somewhat....and the P2 cards...are like massss exspensive if you only buy like 2-4...it like pays for the camera when you do the math...its ridiculous..

But what's that alternative recording technique for HVX? you like hook it up to a special harddrive or computer and it records with out any P2 cards needed?

Rush
11-02-2005, 10:57 PM
Well, the firestore is coming out for it, that will cost less than one 8GB card but carry much more information. There are other manufacturers also vying for that business, so hopefully by NAB we will have some choices. You can also record to the computer directly using firewire.

Jarred Land
11-02-2005, 11:01 PM
also you gotta consider the realm your getting into.. Right now, if you want to shoot DVCpro HD your gonna be paying the same as a porsche. So its all relative.

blckhawk542
11-03-2005, 05:55 PM
I hate the high cost of HD........:cry:

Might as well wait like...5 years when the cameras become the same price of the standard 24p cams...

Rush
11-04-2005, 12:20 AM
I just think of all my projects that were waiting for funding for HD, that are now coming off the backburner for just actors' fees and extra hard drive storage. I am putting in a 2.4TB SATA 190MB/sec. solution into my PC, which will host it for my FCP Mac. That leaves actors' fees : )

Ed Kishel
11-04-2005, 11:21 AM
I hate the high cost of HD........:cry:

Might as well wait like...5 years when the cameras become the same price of the standard 24p cams...
I second that, plus-you will have the advantage of getting any a or b models for what the "gotta have it now" people pay for the first model.

Ernest_Acosta
11-04-2005, 02:01 PM
In 5 years the technology will evolve and you will have new equipment that cost either the same or more. Remember you can still shoot mini-dv with more resolution and native 16:9.

Luis Caffesse
11-04-2005, 02:54 PM
The HVX is indeed a killer camera that will rape nething in its path but...

Hmmm, I wasn't familiar with that function. Hopefully it can be turned off if you so choose.


its like buying a printer...The printer itself is cheap....but the cartredges kill yah...

I've heard this analogy batted around (along with the Gillette analogy with razors) and it really is a complete mistrepresentation of how P2 cards will function.

Are printer cartridges infintely reusable?
Can you buy 1 or 2 printer cartridges for the lift of your printer and never need another one?

No. You can't, and that's why your analogy doesn't hold.

Sure, the price may be high, but you're trying to compare it to DV tape.
Compare the cost of P2 cards to the cost of DVCProHD tape, do the math, and you'll see that in the end they aren't anything like 'printer cartridges"

If anything TAPE FORMATS are like printer cartridges.
I've been shooting wtih a camera that was paid off years ago....yet I still have to shell out the money for tape everytime I want to shoot.

Yes, the upfront cost is high, but the backend cost can be zero with the right setup.
Not like printer cartridges at all, and in fact I woudl argue that it's the exact opposite.

Filmjunkie677
11-04-2005, 04:39 PM
Until the p2 cards come down in price... count me out. Dammit, i want a hvx200...But I still love my dvx!!!!

satellitebunny
11-06-2005, 08:54 AM
If anything TAPE FORMATS are like printer cartridges.
I've been shooting wtih a camera that was paid off years ago....yet I still have to shell out the money for tape everytime I want to shoot.

Yes, the upfront cost is high, but the backend cost can be zero with the right setup.
Not like printer cartridges at all, and in fact I woudl argue that it's the exact opposite.

Shooting costs are never zero. It would be with the P2, if you would just overwrite all your footage and never archive anything. The shooting costs of the P2-system are the price of the cards, which you'll only have to pay once + archive. Whether it is bluray or HVD-disc or harddrive's that you archive to, you'll still have to pay some money if you wan't to see your footage ever again. All those medias are "approximately" the same price as the minidv-tape per gigabyte (someone else can do the exact comparison...). It is ofcourse a big plus that you can shoot DVCPRO-HD 100 Mbit/s (25p 1080 / PAL), but that will take 4 times the gigabytes -> more costs. Ofcourse the prices for archiving will come down too.

I'm not trying to put down the HVX hype. I'm just trying to say, that it shouldn't be praised for it's "zero cost" of shooting, after you've bought the cards.

I think the real advantage of the HVX is DVCPRO-HD and not the P2, but the P2 just makes DVCPRO-HD possible (and the slow-motion!)

:)

SirAllen
11-09-2005, 09:02 AM
This might be a strange question, but could influence the purchase of this camera for a client of mine, will the component outputs work in SD mode?

Zim
11-09-2005, 11:24 AM
I second that, plus-you will have the advantage of getting any a or b models for what the "gotta have it now" people pay for the first model.

When you see the high cost of HD right now it makes you think SD for a few more years. I posted somewhere on what it would cost me to get into HD. The numbers were popping up $12,000 to $20,000 +. By the time you add monitors and computer upgrades, etc. To much for me. But once I get the cash I will probably get the DVX100B and let technolgy work it self out and get HD later down the road.

Jarred Land
11-09-2005, 11:47 AM
When you see the high cost of HD right now it makes you think SD for a few more years. I posted somewhere on what it would cost me to get into HD. The numbers were popping up $12,000 to $20,000 +. By the time you add monitors and computer upgrades, etc. To much for me. But once I get the cash I will probably get the DVX100B and let technolgy work it self out and get HD later down the road.

thats what makes the HVX so attractive.. it is a very very capable SD camera, and you can switch to HD when your ready.

Ronster
11-25-2005, 12:00 AM
so when exactly is the hvx coming out...i heard a rumor not till NAB.....you guys wrote 4th quarter 2005.....but it is 4th quarter so is it soon????

just curious....how hard will it be to buy it once is comes out.....how bad of a back order will their be?

steadicamsteel
11-25-2005, 02:40 AM
You'll probably find getting an xbox360 before christmas easier than finding an HVX. LOL.

ADCOM
11-25-2005, 09:59 PM
http://panasonic.biz/sav/p2/AG-HVX200J.pdf
use google for translate

marcello

Jarred Land
11-25-2005, 11:56 PM
You'll probably find getting an xbox360 before christmas easier than finding an HVX. LOL.

yes.. if your not on the pre-order list your kinda SOL.

spencer
11-26-2005, 10:58 AM
Hey, if I were to use P2 cards, I would have to record in HD, right? Or does that have an option for SD as well?

I suppose it doesn't really matter cuz you can convert to SD in editing, but I was just curious.

Barry_Green
11-26-2005, 11:13 AM
No, P2 can record any format, so if you choose to record DV on the P2 cards you'd actually get a much longer runtime out of them. Two 8gb cards would give you 64 minutes of DV.

Jarred Land
11-26-2005, 12:01 PM
or more precisely.. DVCpro 25 or 50... not to sure about the DV onto P2 thing there Papa Smurf Barry. However, you can go from HD on the P2 card to a SD full DV proxy to tape.

Barry_Green
11-26-2005, 12:51 PM
Has there been any reason to expect that DV wouldn't record on the P2 card?

(and, for NTSC users, it's an irrelevant question anyway as DV and DVCPRO25 would be bit-for-bit identical on the P2 card anyway... but for PAL users it would make a difference)...

Ronster
11-27-2005, 10:23 PM
i'm not saying i want to be the first on my block to have one...I actually am looing more around march.....to get the hvx....is that possible???????

Barra
11-29-2005, 02:13 PM
Hi just to say I saw the updated photo of hvx200 and that new round speaker or microphone or air intake ...? on the viewfinder tube - I think it's horrible looking!
The camera designers should shoot (and I mean with bullets) whichever engineer shoved that thing on in such a primitive way.
They need to either make it fit aesthetically and modernly in place or get rid of it! The rest of the camera looks so sweet and that just looks ... pre video, like something on a childs cheap plastic toy, oh I hope it's just a pre production effort and will look stylish when delivered for real.
What is it anyway?

Bruce Morgan
12-01-2005, 09:39 PM
:thumbsup: Jarred !
Great article and the other article on the p2 cards is showing some clear light into the fututre of "independent image aquisition".
Although I will keep my dvx100a for documentary work ,
I am planning to purchase the HVX in march -April 2006 , Any ideas from you or Pansonic contacts about supply of these cameras in that time frame ??
Thanks
Bruce :thumbup: