Time of Day Timecode on DVX, XL1, Z1U etc.

[Deadzone]

I have a question about recording time of day timecode. Not sure where this topic should go, but I guess I'll try here first.

I have noticed a lot of TV shows I've been working on using DVX100As, XL1s, Z1Us... etc. Essentially, a lot of prosumer minidv camcorders. However, most of the time they don't shoot time of day time code. This is especially annoying because it makes grouping clips from multiple cameras extremely aggrevating. When I talk to production, the camera men always say that their cameras cannot shoot time of day time code. Is this true or are they being lazy? I know you can't jam sync these cameras together, but I thought Time of Day time code shooting is a regular feature on prosumer stuff. Can anyone help?

[RGBaker]

You seem to be mixing messages here:

All digital formats record 'time of day' on a separate data track, accurate to the second but not frame -- this is the data track that allows for scene splitting on transfer of your tape. Typically this data is accessed using the remote control for the playback hardware -- cycling through 'display' does it for my Sony devices, with the first push displaying 'timecode', the next 'time of day' and the last 'camcorder settings' including aperture, shutter, et cetera. This data is embedded in the file, and can also (some of it) be revealed by programs like Scenalyzer Live.

'Timecode' can -- depending on the model -- be changed from the standard 'record run' to the nearer time of day 'free run' -- the first only counts while the tape is running, the latter counts all the time so if you pause the device, the timecode will 'jump'. Free run was the only way to sync multiple cameras back in the analog days -- the combination of 'rec run' and the time of day track makes syncing camcorder easy now without troubling with 'free run'.

A camera man shooting with the devices you mentioned that didn't know they were always recording time of day either didn't understand your question or is sadly uninformed.

GB

[Jan_Crittenden]

Actually it may not be normal on a lot of prosumer gear as it is a concept that is used in the the professional ranks. The DVX100 can shoot Time of Day timecode in the User Bits and any camera could be set for time of day and let go in free run in the first 40 bits, as long as there is oppoprtunity to set TC and make it work in Free Run.

Hope that helps,

Jan

[yellowdog]

we have had problems shooting in time of day when dumping video ( DVCPRO) into our avids at work.If you are not continuosly rolling.The time code breaks and the avid will not accept the tape.Unless you sit there and make in and out points for every shot.That's the only reason we dont shoot in time of day.

[Jan_Crittenden]

And that is why if you are working in DVCPRO and you want to use Time of Day put it in the User Bits, that way you can look at user bits when setting the in/out points but the editor is looking at the first 40 bits for "the" time code. YOu are looking at the User Bits in the Display window. The fist forty bits are always continuous, the time of day is , well time of day. Just a little trick that every Panasonic camera does, including the DVX. ;-)

Best,

Jan

[Deadzone]

Here's the thing. I have worked with many different types of formats, betas, minidv, dvcam, dvcpro, imx, etc... As long as I set the Avid to digitize across timecode breaks, it will create a new clip every time it comes to a break in time code. It will then start digitizing again from the point after the time code breaks. Essentially, if a camera man records time code using free run, then the Avid will create a new clip every time the camera records and stops. This is the first part I need done.

On more professional shows, they also jam sync the cameras so they are running on synced time codes between the cameras. This way, you not only have the clips broken up automatically each time the camera starts and stops, but you can match up the timecodes between the clips when grouping them together for multicam shoots.

So I guess here are my questions:

1. Can prosumer models like the DVX, XL1, Z1U shoot in free run?

2. Is there a way to jam sync these cameras?

I know FCP has an option where you can digitize a record run TC tape and then have FCP put locators where ever the camera starts and stops recording. Xpress Pro also has that option, but I have not been able to get it to work. The problem is, I don't know if the higher end Avid systems which I work on have this option. Usually on the professional level shows, people are shooting betacams which are set on free run (Time of day) and jam synced together. The problem is, more and more shows are moving into the prosumer camera level. I end up getting hundreds (not exagerrating) of tapes that are shot using rec run without jam sync. Then they wonder why it is taking a month to group all the clips. When I tell production what I need in terms of how they record their footage, they always give me the same answer. Nope, can't shoot free run or jam sync the cameras. I just want to know if they are telling the truth.

[RGBaker]

My casual advice would be use a different tool for transfer: If your source is DV, use Scenalyzer Live -- it will break out clips reliably using time of day datacode on a record run tape. Works like a charm, runs as a background task on any system running Windows with an OHCI Firewire card ... you can run other tasks on the top window while the tape transfers. Import all the captured clips to your favourite editor for editing afterwards; drag all the imported clips into the editors batch capture window to create a batch list for future recaptures. No need to fiddle with free run, if your device even offers it.

As for whether free run timecode is an option -- it is for the Sony PD150/170 I shoot with, though there is no ability to force sync with another device to ensure more than one device running at precisely the same clock -- you have to calculate the offset for any other devices and work with that. But I have never bothered with free run, except to see that it worked -- the time of day data track on DV & HDV gets the job done just fine.

Can't speak for the HVX, though Jan seems to have done so clearly here.

Cheers,
GB