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offbeatbryce
04-11-2017, 10:20 PM
I have three Identical LCD monitors for editing. I have calibrated one monitor to color bars. When I set the other monitor to the same color settings as the calibrated monitor the second monitor doesn't match the first even though they both have the same settings exactly. Why is it slightly different? I also have a third monitor that always shows white backgrounds on reddit etc with a yellow tint to them and the youtube logo is bright redish/pink rather than dark red.

They all have the same model number, release date etc printed on the back.

Tim Sewell
04-12-2017, 12:32 AM
If setting one specimen of a model of monitor to known good settings from another resulted in perfect calibration there would be no money at all in the calibration tool market.

jagraphics
04-12-2017, 12:41 AM
You are going to need monitor calibration HW and calibrate each monitor with it. I use a colormunki and it asks if I want to calibrate the second monitor to match the first.

Calibrating "by eye" is about as accurate as calibrating it to Wednesday.


EDIT: Also you need to let the monitors warm up for about 20 mins before calibrating. AFAIK this is the same for LED's as CRT's

paulears
04-12-2017, 01:58 AM
Leds all vary - they're made in batches, so a pile of screens will all be similar, but not identical, but tomorrows production could be very different if the batches changed. Think of it like wallpaper. Each roll has a code for the batch. You cannot mix batches because colours will be different. Monitors reveal very subtle differences - that's, I guess, what they are supposed to do. In fairness CRTs were exactly the same. Hence why they give you tweaking knobs!

Run&Gun
04-12-2017, 03:29 AM
You need to calibrate and adjust each individual monitor, individually.

It's the same way with cameras, too.

jagraphics
04-12-2017, 04:55 AM
You need to calibrate and adjust each individual monitor, individually.

It's the same way with cameras, too.


Agreed but the ColorMunki software/Hardware, and I assume the Spyders IOnes etc etc, will not only calibrate your screen but can match multiple screens on the same MAC/PC. You have to run the calibration on each screen one after the other. It seems to work.

With modern LED panels unless you are buying matched sets from Eizo (and selling the house and children to buy them :-) as everyone has said all monitors are going to have different characteristics. Not a lot, and 98% of the world won't care, but for photo/video editing it does matter.

Also not only should you let them warm up for 30 mins before calibrating they need recalibrating periodically too.... Depending on your environment and what you are doing anything from monthly to weekly, to daily. There are some places where every day the junior has to come in early and turn everything on so that when the others come in 30 mins later they can calibrate over coffee on a daily basis.

offbeatbryce
04-13-2017, 08:37 AM
How come I know professional editors and colonists in Hollywood that don't calibrate their monitors every week etc? They calibrate once and leave it for years.

I also know one guy who color graded for star wars films and he said his monitors weren't even calibrated at all because it doesn't matter

TheDingo
04-13-2017, 09:02 AM
How come I know professional editors and colonists in Hollywood that don't calibrate their monitors every week etc? They calibrate once and leave it for years.

I also know one guy who color graded for star wars films and he said his monitors weren't even calibrated at all because it doesn't matter

...They really don't sound like they care about color. Monitors slowly change color over time, and eventually you have to replace them when they are no longer able to display the correct color range. ( you really notice this when you buy a new monitor and try and get your older monitors to match, and often the older monitors have faded to the point where it's no longer possible to match them )

jagraphics
04-13-2017, 09:33 AM
How come I know professional editors and colonists in Hollywood that don't calibrate their monitors every week etc? They calibrate once and leave it for years.


Editors maybe, if they then use a separate colourist Who do use calibrated screens. But the colonist you were talking to seems to have been talking out of his arse? :-)
(even taking into account US<-> English spellings....



I also know one guy who color graded for star wars films and he said his monitors weren't even calibrated at all because it doesn't matter

That statement is an oxymoron.

BTW name names. It should be easy to check.

Run&Gun
04-13-2017, 10:13 AM
I also know one guy who color graded for star wars films and he said his monitors weren't even calibrated at all because it doesn't matter

So why are you worried about calibrating your monitors if it doesn't matter?

Either this 'one guy' is full of crap, or he personally doesn't calibrate the monitors being used and doesn't realize that they are, which I would find very hard to believe if he is a colorist working at that level(see first part of my comment).

Mitch Gross
04-13-2017, 10:36 AM
How come I know professional editors and colonists in Hollywood that don't calibrate their monitors every week etc? They calibrate once and leave it for years.

I also know one guy who color graded for star wars films and he said his monitors weren't even calibrated at all because it doesn't matter

For editors it doesn't matter. For colorists if they say it doesn't matter then they should be shown the door. I've never heard such garbage.

jagraphics
04-13-2017, 10:47 AM
For editors it doesn't matter. For colorists if they say it doesn't matter then they should be shown the door. I've never heard such garbage.Mitch Gross
Cinema Product Manager
Panasonic North America

Perhaps it only matters for Panasonic Camera users?

I'll get me coat :-)

(I use Panasonic cameras and calibrate my monitors)

Mitch Gross
04-13-2017, 11:33 AM
Perhaps it only matters for Panasonic Camera users?

I'll get me coat :-)

(I use Panasonic cameras and calibrate my monitors)

Well looking at the pictures it does seem we care more about the image quality than some manufacturers...

yoclay
04-14-2017, 08:54 PM
...They really don't sound like they care about color. Monitors slowly change color over time, and eventually you have to replace them when they are no longer able to display the correct color range. ( you really notice this when you buy a new monitor and try and get your older monitors to match, and often the older monitors have faded to the point where it's no longer possible to match them )


This is not true, most modern monitors do NOT change color much over time. (Unlike CRT's). What changes over time is brightness.

yoclay
04-14-2017, 09:03 PM
Agreed but the ColorMunki software/Hardware, and I assume the Spyders IOnes etc etc, will not only calibrate your screen but can match multiple screens on the same MAC/PC. You have to run the calibration on each screen one after the other. It seems to work.

With modern LED panels unless you are buying matched sets from Eizo (and selling the house and children to buy them :-) as everyone has said all monitors are going to have different characteristics. Not a lot, and 98% of the world won't care, but for photo/video editing it does matter.

Also not only should you let them warm up for 30 mins before calibrating they need recalibrating periodically too.... Depending on your environment and what you are doing anything from monthly to weekly, to daily. There are some places where every day the junior has to come in early and turn everything on so that when the others come in 30 mins later they can calibrate over coffee on a daily basis.


Color Munki, Spyder Calibrator's, etc. are crap. They change the LUT's in your computer, they do not affect your screen. These kind of pucks might be fine for Photoshop, but in the grading world they are meaningless, because the signal is YUV, not RGB. Not only are they NOT dependable for standardized color, but if you were to calibrate consecutively say 10 times, you would find that the calibration would often be different from one to the next. Real calibrated units are being measured with Klein's or some such units that cost around $40K. This is why real color grading monitors are so expensive.

Color on modern LED's does not change so much over time (unlike the old CRT's). Once they are calibrated by a real and accurate service, the only thing that your puck can help you with is brightness adjustment. In other words, you could take a measurement AFTER it has been properly calibrated by the service, which would give you it's brightness readings and then track that over time with your puck, adjusting to stay close to your original reading. But you can forget it for accurate color readings or even for the first/base luminousity reading.

By the way I have a top of the line Eizo and I can tell you that even though it "calibrates" weekly, it is clearly flat and green by comparison to my FSI grading monitor and it cannot in any way be relied on by comparison.

The other thing which I find hilarious, is that if you iook at a room's light sources where people often do home "grading", it is such a mixed bag that there is no way in high heaven that their "calibrating" puck has a chance for accurate readings. Not to mention the red and yellow curtains, Bon Jovi poster from their 1980's adolescence and the violet shade of paint on the wall facing them.

Design Media Consultants
04-15-2017, 07:26 AM
How come I know professional editors and colonists in Hollywood that don't calibrate their monitors every week etc? They calibrate once and leave it for years.

I also know one guy who color graded for star wars films and he said his monitors weren't even calibrated at all because it doesn't matter

A colorist who does not calibrate his monitor. Hmm. I live in South Florida, and have some really great swamp property you might be interested in.

Design Media Consultants
04-15-2017, 07:31 AM
I think the bottom line, is that the quality of the monitor will have an impact on the color output. What kind of monitors are you using?

jagraphics
04-15-2017, 08:19 AM
A colorist who does not calibrate his monitor. Hmm. I live in South Florida, and have some really great swamp property you might be interested in.


Erm.. he doesn't know any colourists as he said he knows "colonists in Hollywood" Well that sounds about right for Hollywood... Given you have some Florida swamp it might be the right place for his colonists. They probably know more about irrigation than colour balancing. :-)


Re ROCLAY's comments above I have asked XRite for a comment. Now I know they have a vested commercial interest but it would be interesting to see if we can get some solid answers on this.

morgan_moore
04-15-2017, 09:15 AM
For colorists if they say it doesn't matter then they should be shown the door. I've never heard such garbage.

Well I used to own an eizo and mess about with it no end.

Taught me a lot of stuff.. particularly about the need to watch stuff on iphones and crappy Dells.. because your client will or their audience will - rich black shadows on an Eizo is mud on a Dell.

Also I have a grey 'screen saver' (which I would spot if it looked pink) and am goggling the scopes all the time, I kind of know what I should be seeing vs the scopes.

So I no longer calibrate my monitor.. but would if I needed to because I would spot if it were off.

So I could say 'I calibrate my monitor when I need it' or being flippant could say 'I never calibrate my monitor'

I guess mr Hollywood may not calib his mointor.. but would 'smell' if it were off, and would if he needed to.. and lets assume its not a cheapo in the first place so probability it is good and doesnt need calibrating today, or yesterday.

TheDingo
04-15-2017, 09:31 PM
This is not true, most modern monitors do NOT change color much over time. (Unlike CRT's). What changes over time is brightness.

I'm using lower end monitors ( 8-bit IPS, 1-3 years old ) and I've definitely seen color shifts with all of them over the past 2 years. I use a ColorMunki calibrator once a month, and the color is almost always better after calibrating, even after only a month of use.

agcohn
04-27-2017, 09:12 PM
How come I know professional editors and colonists in Hollywood that don't calibrate their monitors every week etc? They calibrate once and leave it for years.

I also know one guy who color graded for star wars films and he said his monitors weren't even calibrated at all because it doesn't matter
Not every type of monitor requires constant calibration, but it is nonsense to say that any professional colorist would leave it for years without calibration.

I worked at Company 3 for 5 years (not as a colorist), and our projectors were calibrated multiple times a week, CRTs were calibrated at least once a week, and Plasma / LCD / Dolby monitors were calibrated every couple of weeks. More often if requested by the Colorists. There was not a single high-end colorist there who wasn't extremely paranoid about the calibration states of their monitors / projectors.

Cary Knoop
04-27-2017, 09:22 PM
How come I know professional editors and colonists in Hollywood that don't calibrate their monitors every week etc? They calibrate once and leave it for years.

I also know one guy who color graded for star wars films and he said his monitors weren't even calibrated at all because it doesn't matter
Sure you do......

starcentral
05-27-2017, 05:07 AM
I have three Identical LCD monitors for editing. I have calibrated one monitor to color bars. When I set the other monitor to the same color settings as the calibrated monitor the second monitor doesn't match the first even though they both have the same settings exactly. Why is it slightly different? I also have a third monitor that always shows white backgrounds on reddit etc with a yellow tint to them and the youtube logo is bright redish/pink rather than dark red.

As a minimum get yourself a DataColor Spyer PRO series color calibration kit (the Pro allows unlimited number of calibrations) and you will very quickly be able to match up your monitors or even monitors from different manufacturer and even technologies as I have.

The reason these calibration systems work is very simple: 100% of RED, and 100% of BLUE, and 100% of GREEN makes 100% white! During the calibration process the sensor measures various levels of black, grey, red, green, blue, white, etc.. from your monitor and then creates an monitor profile for your operating system to load and use each time you boot up your machine.

It's that simple and it does work. For the past 4 years I've been using the DataColor Spyder 4 Pro and been able to match a variety of different monitors from different manufacturers, etc.. it even works on iPads apparently although I have never tried.



Agreed but the ColorMunki software/Hardware, and I assume the Spyders IOnes etc etc, will not only calibrate your screen but can match multiple screens on the same MAC/PC. You have to run the calibration on each screen one after the other. It seems to work.

With modern LED panels unless you are buying matched sets from Eizo (and selling the house and children to buy them :-) as everyone has said all monitors are going to have different characteristics. Not a lot, and 98% of the world won't care, but for photo/video editing it does matter.

Also not only should you let them warm up for 30 mins before calibrating they need recalibrating periodically too.... Depending on your environment and what you are doing anything from monthly to weekly, to daily. There are some places where every day the junior has to come in early and turn everything on so that when the others come in 30 mins later they can calibrate over coffee on a daily basis.

I agree. A calibration is an absolute must if you are working in the field of photo or video period. I have some friends producing consistently magenta skewed footage and they don't know to fix it because they don't see it! This is absurd.

Even though monitors have different characteristics, i.e. LED and LCD with various variations (TN, S-IPS, H-IPS, e-IPS and P-IPS), most decent calibration systems will in fact get them to match in color and brightness/contrast - but monitors with better dynamic range or contrast ratios will allow you to see more details in shadowy areas for example and possibly even other tones. So people shouldn't assume a cheap monitor is going to match an "expensive" one just because you "calibrated" them. At best the color, brightness and contrast will match yes but there will still be some subtle differences if you are using completely different technology or quality monitors.


How come I know professional editors and colonists in Hollywood that don't calibrate their monitors every week etc? They calibrate once and leave it for years.

I also know one guy who color graded for star wars films and he said his monitors weren't even calibrated at all because it doesn't matter

Not all monitors have to be calibrated frequently that is correct.. but surely anyone who graded "star wars" was using a monitor calibrated at some point in its existence.

The level of monitors these guys are using are not consumer grade, they are very high end panels.

In general there are three levels (possibly more) when it comes to the calibration process of monitors:

Consumer level calibration systems measure the monitor with a sensor and then create a monitor color profile managed by the computer's operating system. This is not a bad start, it does work, but does have some limitations.

The next level of calibration also involves measuring the monitor with a sensor (something like the x-Rite i1 is very popular with professionals) but here pros use different software such as lightSpace or ColorNavigator to do a very deep analysis of the monitor and create a 3D LUT that can be loaded into the monitor itself, or even an external LUT box in line with the signal from the computer to the monitor (typically via SDI or HDMI for TRUE monitoring of a TV/video broadcast level signal). Higher end consumer monitors (like NEC PA272 and any three digit Eizo series) allow loading of 12 or 14-bit 3D internal lookup tables (LUTs) for calibration. This is better then OS management of color. Some new monitors even have their own sensors built in to manage it's own calibration.

Lastly, monitors like the ones from Flanders Scientific are calibrated at the factory. They do not really need any end-user calibration and if you want to have it calibrated you send it back to them for free calibration and they ship it back. These monitors start at $2500 and go up to $5000 and even more. It's what any high end production is using to monitor on set and what the finishing post houses will have as well.