Good turnkey system for editing hd

[high8]

It is my understanding that this camera does not record uncompressed HD only a DVCPRO HD codec.
I am running FCP5 in Mac G5 with 2gig of ram and a Dual 1.8
will this be sufficient when it comes to editing this content?

[Cees Mutsaers]

good question high8, I am planning to buy FCP5 and a G5 dual processor. So I was also wondering if that was powerful enough. Since DVCpro HD is less compressedthan HDV I would think it should work.

[redindian]

and what does it take for a Windows machine...?

[Ernest_Acosta]

My guess is that the G5 will work perfect with FCP HD. On the windows side I'm guessing you will need an NT system, but that is only a guess.

[esperman]

Any G5 mac will do running final cut 4.5 or 5.

Not sure about what windows programs...AVID for sure...I hear Vegas as well.

[taubkin]

I'm pretty confident that my dual G4 could manage some DVCPro HD jobs now and then.

HDV is another story, though...

[Zak Forsman]

i currently own an Avid and FCP bay. i'd recommend Avid over FCP. the Avid is much less problematic. i run it on windows xp and built my own pc for $3,000 by following the instructions here... http://www.videoguys.com/DIY3.html

[spieden]

I have easily and successfully edited DVC Pro HD footage from a Varicam with a G5 dual 2ghz machine and FCP5. The G5 (any dual processor), FCP 5 and DVC Pro HD combination is a match made in heaven.

[Oz]

and what does it take for a Windows machine...?

Best way to determine this is to take a look at the hardware requirements of the editing application you want to work with. I know Avid Xpress Pro HD supports HD. A look on their website reveals the following:

Processors: Dual or Single 2.4 GHz Xeon processor OR Pentium 4 1.6 GHz processor OR Pentium M 1.8 GHz processor (mobile configurations). Note: The boot drive should be IDE, SCSI, or SATA 7200 RPM. Do not use internal SCSI as a boot device if you also plan on adding external SCSI drives (in that case use IDE or SATA).

Operating System: Windows XP Professional w/ Service Pack 2

System Memory: 1 GB system memory minimum, 1.5 GB recommended for HD or high-stream count SD projects

Open GL graphics cards: NVidia QuadroFX 1400 PCI Express, NVidia QuadroFX 1300 PCI Express, Nvidia QuadroFX 1100 AGP 8X, NVidia QuadroFX 500 AGP 8X or NVidia Quadro4 980 XGL AGP 8X
Note: Although supported, use of the NVIDIA Quadro 4 980 XGL in a dual-monitor configuration may result in performance degradation during tasks such as scratch removal, auto color correction, or general color correction when the safe color warnings are enabled, or using the eyedropper to select colors in Effect Mode. Single monitor systems with an NVIDIA Quadra 4 980 XGL perform properly.

Add-in IEEE-1394 PCI card (required if no built-in 1394).
Note: The add-in PCI card must be a universal PCI card with the T.I chip set. Mojo is not supported on notebook systems with PCMCIA cards of any kind. Current qualified /supported cards include:
ADS Pyro PCI 64 (Rev B), part #API-311
SIIG 1394 3-Port PCI i/e, part #NN-400012

Internal disk drive: 40 GB or larger

CD or DVD-ROM drive

There are also "best practices" to keep in mind for editing applications like keeping the OS installation and data on seperate hard drives, etc. May need to do some research based on the application you choose.

But then again, the topic of this discussion is "turn-key". In other words, similar to the way you turn the key in your car to start the engine, no other requirements/research should be required for turn-key systems since turn-key computers are those which are ready to go, already built, and tested to work with the application. For turn-key systems, check out any number of vendors like Alienware (http://www.alienware.com), B&H Photo (http://www.bhphoto.com), 1Beyond (http://www.1beyond.com), and many others.

I have always built my own though, so I can't vouch for these vendors in terms of turn-key (turnkey) systems.

[ChuckS]

i currently own an Avid and FCP bay. i'd recommend Avid over FCP. the Avid is much less problematic. i run it on windows xp and built my own pc for $3,000 by following the instructions here... http://www.videoguys.com/DIY3.html
What version of Avid and what video card do you use? Also does Avid edit HDV natively?

I have edited several movies on a media composer, that machine was a workhorsem but the interface was not what I would call interactive the way FCP and PPro are today. Does the new version of Avid have a more interactive interface (drag and drop)?

Regarding editing on a G4/G5 - I can't speak to that but I can't imagine not wanting to use Motion as part of your production workflow. If that is the case, I have Motion running on a dual 2.0 G5 with 2GB RAM and its a bit of a dog. It sure consumes memory. I have not upgraded to Motion2 which I imagine would have better performance.

[redindian]

Is it wrong to assume all NLE's (Premier Pro and Vegas) would do a minor upgrade to handle DVCPROHD and HDV natively? (after HVX lot of ppl will be shouting for it)

[alpi69]

they all can handle HDV i think (not sure about Canon´s own HDV though).
I use Liquid and there is no DVCProHD support yet (only in Liqui Chrome which costs A LOT).
the problem for many is: how do you get an HD preview to a monitor? you need some sort of HD-SDI or component cabling to a HD screen or you are stuck to your VGA-preview.

so even if your machine can work it.....you need more.....I am still looking into this, because I want to stick to Liquid (LE7 coming out soon), but so far on Windows Avid looks best.

[Barry_Green]

the problem for many is: how do you get an HD preview to a monitor?
Well, if you're using an HVX, presumably you could just plug the firewire cable in and preview through firewire, just like we currently do with DV.

Of course, that won't work for a GOP-based system like MPEG-2, and it wouldn't work if you're using any other codec, but for HVX-native stuff it should work.

[Zak Forsman]

What version of Avid and what video card do you use? Also does Avid edit HDV natively?

I have edited several movies on a media composer, that machine was a workhorsem but the interface was not what I would call interactive the way FCP and PPro are today. Does the new version of Avid have a more interactive interface (drag and drop)?

i know FCP is easier to learn right out of the gate, but once you've mastered it, the Avid is the more powerful, more flexible, has better media management, and ultimately offers a faster more reliable workflow from offline to online.

I just upgraded to Xpress Pro HD v5.2 which added HDV support (pc only) and I have a Quadro FX1300 video card.

[ChuckS]

i know FCP is easier to learn right out of the gate, but once you've mastered it, the Avid is the more powerful, more flexible, has better media management, and ultimately offers a faster more reliable workflow from offline to online.

I just upgraded to Xpress Pro HD v5.2 which added HDV support (pc only) and I have a Quadro FX1300 video card.
Thanks.

Have you edited any HDV with Avid yet? How do you get a rea-time monitor out while editing HD?

[Zak Forsman]

Thanks.

Have you edited any HDV with Avid yet? How do you get a rea-time monitor out while editing HD?
well, at home i have a Mojo which is a hardware accelerator by Avid that connects via firewire. it lets you monitor HD out to an SD monitor. i don't see the HD until i online, cc and qc it at work. when the DVD for marc forster's film, "Stay", comes out, you will see a 7-minute piece in the supplements that i shot and edited in HDV called "Departing Visions". of course this would be an SD online so i don't know why i'm bringing it up. so... nevermind.

but if you want to monitor HD you need to have an HD deck or camera connected to the avid and then a monitor connected to that. i'm hoping one day that the Mojo will be revised to allow HD monitoring.

[Cees Mutsaers]

spieden : how is the rendering speed in real time? just usable or like in heaven as you call it?

[Cees Mutsaers]

Barry Green : what do you recommend as being the best NLE soft/hardware to work with the HVX using P2 cards?

[alpi69]

i think there will never be a "best NLE" ever. they all have pros and cons and you need to find out what you need and look for that.

For example I use Liquid Edition Pro, because it has a huge mediamangement system (i had a project over 12 weeks last year with 3000+ clips and never lost a beat) and it is scalable with CPU and GPU effects that are extremely fast with the background rendering, too.
But LE does not (yet) work with 24pA timelines so not many users here use it.
When i changed to Liquid last year i beforehand had tried PremPro, Vegas, FCP4 and had SpeedRazor for 6 years. I can tell you every NLE has its strengths. They are all good in some way. Most of them have to make compromises somewhere though.

FCP is nice, Vegas is a love or hate tool and Premiere is Photoshop with Video.


For me Liquid is the best, it offers analogue SD (component) for a reasonable price and great quality. I produce for terrestrial nationwide networks in Austria and Germany, NBC, Eurosport, MTV etc and it is unbeatable as i said when it comes to big projects. As I live in Europe i do not need 24p stuff (DVX here uses 25p thank god) and can use it for every production. If I was in the US (or CAN) i would use Avid Xpress or FCP i guess.

Now for HDV i am set with Liquid as it records HDV natively (no external encoder needed as with other NLEs), but no DVCProHD yet. And as preview it has the option to use the second VGA as fullscreen preview. That is ok, but it is not a true HD-preview.

For DVCProHD from the P2 there right now are only FCP and i believe AVID in a normal priceclass. Liquid Chrome HD starts at 15000.........PPro ?? dunno.
but if you wait until December you might see every NLE trying to be used with the HVX.

[Bart_Boge]

I am running FCP4 on a dual 1.25ghz G4 Powermac. Even for complex SD projects it can be dog-slow--and while I'm sure it could technically done, it would be a bear to edit HD on.

Still, I love FCP. I learned it with no training in about a week, at least its basic features. I hate viruses, and Macs are to this date completely immune to them (in OSX). No matter how much cheaper and faster a Windows machine might be, downtime with even one nasty visus would equalize that pretty quickly. But initial bang for the buck certainly goes to the Windows side.

If I were to get an HD project with a solid paying client, I'd do a dual G5 in a heartbeat.

[thisiswells]

I don't think there are any other options besides FCP-HD. I mean, what would the other firms' high end product be if they supported DVCProHD in a sub $1000 application? Obviously, there is a market for UncompressedHD in effects work, but I don't think that's the majority of customers. Apple supporting this workflow is almost too good to be true!

[thisiswells]

Macs are to this date completely immune to them (in OSX).
Just wait until they switch to Intel processors!

[esperman]

No....Intel for powermacs wont be out for over a year. Next week dual core G5's will be coming out.

If your editing, use whats available to edit, there are plenty of people cutting on dual 800 G4's. You can edit HD now, and a G5 will be viable for at least 3-4 more years.

[tomtv]

i am a guy who learned and owned my own avid media composer suite. loved it at the time. i started the move to FCP at version 1.5 with a G4. i have never regreted it for a moment. the first time i tried to get something to work with an avid system that didn't have an avid name plate on it and cost 2 or 3 times what it should or get stuck on something in the system and had to take a whole day to reinstall, redo the settings and hope it all came together and could not get help without paying 499.00 for a phonecall only to find out i wasn't told about an update that would have been free if i had their 3900 per year service contract, (takes breath now) i then cursed the day of proprietary avid technology. they have come a long way with attitude but only because of the need to catch up and survive, not because they really care about the end user. the whole FCP and mac world is for profit but will i hope will always stay about the core end user. FCP support by users will never be matched by the avid people - sorry for you avid worshipers, the culture of a company is what it is. arrogance doesn't know how to be humble and honest. just one guys opinion though. if your tools work for you, then stay with them. it's still about the content.

[Spartacus]

On IBC they edited DVCproHD coming from a HVX pre-sale with a dual 2,7 Ghz G5 and 8gig of RAM directly from the P2 recorder, of course flawless...
Well, to pricey for me... Lots of RAM for HD work would be crucial to Apple editors mentioned, maybe one of the tech guys could explain?
Barry also stated that DVCproHD should be less hard to handle than HDV, because of the I-Frame only compression.
Since I posted about DVCproHD editing the first time, I came to the following:
If there will be jobs to pay for it, I´ll go with a beefed out G5 since Pana and Apple still have there little romance going on and I got used to FCP...
If the future doesn`t look so golden for me paid job`s wise, I will go with an AMD X2 system, so far the 4800+ gives every rival cpu a beating at this price... a good, sufficient system for handling HVX footage should cost around 2000 to 2500$ the time the pana is available...
As NLE app I´m using Edition right now or FCPHD, if Pinnacle/Avid won`t support HD in Edition because of Avids other aystems I`ll change to PP, Adobe surely will...

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Just wait until they switch to Intel processors!

So? They will still be running OSX. The user won't even know the difference under the hood.

[Nathyn]

I learned FCP from a guy who used Adobe and had never touched FCP. In a day I knew how to edit video. (At least the basics of cutting etc). I've never used Avid but I know a lot of people love it. When I was in school the "Video Toaster" was all the rage, now with Macs/PC and a $500 or less software package you can be editing SD and HD video. I hear the new Avid has a feture that allows editing of HD and SD (I believe HDV too) footage on the same timeline flawlessly.

-Nate

[alpi69]

yes, DVCPro HD will need a lot of RAM, but it will be easier on the CPU than HDV. when i got Liquid and put it on my old P4-2,4GHz it struggled with DV, but it ran smoothly with uncompressedSD. HDV is even harder encoding than DV (sizewise), so you need a lot of power to just play a native clip. DVCPro will run smoothly on smaller machines, but for effects you need RAM in both cases.

[mmm]

... when i got Liquid and put it on my old P4-2,4GHz it struggled with DV, but it ran smoothly with uncompressedSD...

It struggled with DV?? Jesus, that is bad.

I guy I work for still uses an old G4 Dual 450Mhz, and that even chucks DV around like a rag doll. I think the first machine I ever used an NLE on was a P2 266MHz, but that did drop the odd frame and had the classic 2GB file size limit... those weren't the days!

[PowerMac84]

I currently use an iBook G4 with 800 MHz and an iMac G5 1.6. Filled with plenty of RAM and a Firewire-Raid it is just working fine. I'll be finishing my 5th or already 7th (?) feature soon;)

Are there any DVCPROHD files available for download? So everyone could try editing with his/her system…

Once I took a practical course at a German TV broadcaster and they used AVID MC. Well, it had some nice features and media organising seemed to be better. (tons better then FCP!!)