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View Full Version : Advice for "pan/zoom in post" process.



Larry Chapman
10-28-2016, 06:23 AM
I have a dance studio client that can't afford a true two camera shoot. We came to a compromise where I will:

1) Shoot the show with a fixed wide shot in UHD.
2) Quickly deliver them an SD version online (Vimeo).
3) They will direct via timecode, where I should zoom-in and follow a performer more closely.

I deliver 720P to them. So, I can push in 9x with no quality loss.

I know that if I plan to push in 9x, focus will be very critical. At some level, the tradeoff is between larger area in focus and noise. If I boost the gain, and even use HIGH SENS mode, I can close the iris more and get more reliable focus. But the increased gain introduces more noise.

I will be attending the dress rehearsal, so I can experiment ahead of time.

Thoughts?

David W. Jones
10-28-2016, 06:51 AM
I'm probably one of the few folks that don't like to cut between a wide and a tight from the same camera. 90% of the time it looks like a bad edit to my eye. Can you not place a second camera as an unattended wide shot, and then man your DVX200 from a different angle?

Larry Chapman
10-28-2016, 07:02 AM
I'm probably one of the few folks that don't like to cut between a wide and a tight from the same camera. 90% of the time it looks like a bad edit to my eye. Can you not place a second camera as an unattended wide shot, and then man your DVX200 from a different angle?

I'm not planning on cuts....smooth key framing. I also don't like cutting wide/close from the same camera.

JRJphoto
10-28-2016, 06:23 PM
That's the reason for the 30 rule. Anyway, pushing-in in post will always enlarge grain. You need lots of light and this skunds like another low light situation where the image will be impossibly grainy due to high positive gain.

Larry Chapman
10-29-2016, 07:11 AM
That's the reason for the 30 rule. Anyway, pushing-in in post will always enlarge grain. You need lots of light and this skunds like another low light situation where the image will be impossibly grainy due to high positive gain.

I'm going to attend a dress rehearsal and experiment with settings.

7DDude
10-29-2016, 08:15 AM
I would consider using the Neat Video noise reduction plug-in for Premiere Pro, Windows, not sure about Apple. You may loose a little sharpness, but that's the trade off. Neat video works pretty darn good I think. Download there free trial and see for your self.

Larry Chapman
10-29-2016, 08:28 AM
I would consider using the Neat Video noise reduction plug-in for Premiere Pro, Windows, not sure about Apple. You may loose a little sharpness, but that's the trade off. Neat video works pretty darn good I think. Download there free trial and see for your self.

I already own it. This will be a 90 minute production and, in my experience, the Neat plugin is just too processor intensive for something that large. I will experiment, however.

Vaughan Wood
10-30-2016, 04:12 PM
This year I shot a school like this as they couldn't afford a two camera shoot, so I charged them half the difference between a 1 camera and two camera shoot to give me enough for a day's editing using 4K.

No-one ever knew (except the organiser), that it wasn't a two camera shoot. It was very easy to edit in Edius. Just cut when I needed to cut to another shot, then go back and grab the layouter for that particular clip, zoom and pan to appropriate group talking/singing, and go to the next cut. Often I only had to drag the layouter across to the next cut, slightly pan it the shot I needed and so on on.

I edited a 90 minute show in half a day and didn't have to go through the footage and colour correct if it had been a two camera shoot. VERY successful and time efficient.

Delivered on DVD.

Cheers,

Vaughan

Mitch Gross
10-30-2016, 05:59 PM
Have you considered the new Titan option for the Convergent Design Odyssey7Q+ or Apollo? It offers the full image area as well as up to two frame extractions simultaneously. You can do fluid moves on the touchscreen with a finger drag and the windows are pixel-to-pixel HD resolution so there is no artifacting and noise is mitigated. Rather than trying to imagine what you may be able to achieve in post, Titan will provide a clear view of the shots live. It will record the wide and the two extractions in HD simultaneously, as well as a live-cut if you wish. It also captures an EDL of the cut to make a re-edit in post quick and straightforward. Titan can be purchased or rented for any Odyssey or Apollo.

JRJphoto
10-31-2016, 06:37 AM
Have you considered the new Titan option for the Convergent Design Odyssey7Q+ or Apollo?

...that looks goram amazing.

DigitalVision
10-31-2016, 06:58 AM
I did this exact process recently. Borrowed friend's 4K Sony X70 and shot an A Cappella performance, 20 girls across width of stage. Shot entire thing wide angle, not moving camera. Edited in Premiere CC as 720p, was able to zoom in waist-up on any performer or group of soloists, pan across entire group smoothly, etc. using keyframes. If keyframing motion, be sure to use Ease In/Ease out to make it look natural, otherwise you get those sudden stops and starts that look odd.

I understand that the discerning eye of an experienced videographer/film maker might notice a cut from wide to close on same camera, but remember who the audience is - parents and grandparents that just want to see the kid's dance performance. They don't care and won't ever notice. For years, I have shot recitals with 2 cameras that were side-by-side, and close as I could get them to one another, wide and close-up, and I ran both cameras myself. This must look about the same as cutting wide to close on same camera and I never thought it looked strange. Nor does it look bad to me on the 4K crop.

The one potential issue I see with the plan is giving editorial control to the dance studio. That kind of thing almost never goes well. What would be the difference if you shot two cameras, or one camera and crop in post? You are making the decisions with two cameras, why should it be any different with one camera? A few times in the past I gave control to customers, giving them a time code dub from which they could produce edit notes, and they either never got back to me or wanted constant changes. Neither is good, and I just won't put myself in that position again, learned my lesson.

Good luck with the job

Thanks

Jeff