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View Full Version : In search for BEST QUALITY in 2160p 30p 100 mbit mode



Nicklas
10-16-2016, 10:42 AM
Hi guys! I'm supposed to film a wedding in 10 days and I've recently gotten myself DVX 200 camera. Great camera, honestly! However, the variety of settings makes me wonder which recording mode would be the best for the upcoming event.

So far I've decided to go with 2160p 30p 100 mbit mode, as there isn't that much strobe compared to 24p. (Definitely no 50p, as according to the user manual, the amount of mpixels used in this mode is around 8.5(!) , whereas 30p provides 12.89 mpixels!

However, considering its a wedding, and most likely people will move sporadically (dance, congrats, grabbing more champagne, etc.) I'd need to either use a faster shutter mode (1/250?) which will cause more strobe, or use a FastScan mode (rumored to have a lower quality video as a result).


If any of you guys have had similar dilemmas, would you share your experience with a newbie in this field? :)


Thank you all in advance!

David W. Jones
10-16-2016, 11:17 AM
The country you are in might play a role as to frame rate.

Razz16mm
10-16-2016, 11:25 AM
Shoot 30p at 1/60th, 1/90th max. 1/250th is giving up too much light for available light conditions typical of weddings. Video is not still photography. Motion blur is part of the experience. You want smooth and dreamy. Fast shutter speeds take you away from that.
You also don't want to shoot at an ISO or gain setting any higher than the absolute minimum needed for good exposure if you want to maintain best image quality. Liight is usually at a premium at weddings, especially receptions.
This is an ungraded sample camera shot at 24fps 240 degree shutter (1/36th sec) hand held on a monopod. Fast shutter won't help smooth panning as you follow action, only higher framerates will do that.


https://vimeo.com/187560883

Nicklas
10-16-2016, 12:20 PM
The country you are in might play a role as to frame rate.

I'm from Estonia (PAL country).
Most of 4k and other pro cams available here are 25p, but that's just way too twitchy :)

David W. Jones
10-16-2016, 12:31 PM
Too twitchy?

How are you monitoring the footage?

I sure wouldn't shoot it in 30p for playback in Estonia.

In 50Hz mode I would likely shoot using 3840x2160 and test before hand using both 50p 150Mbps and 25p 100Mbps to see which gives the best results.

I would also likely select a frame rate which matches your other cameras. I'm not a wedding videographer but the last couple of weddings I did shoot I used 5 cameras for the ceremony.

Nicklas
10-16-2016, 01:36 PM
>>>Too twitchy?

Exactly. Even if I use 1/48 shutter speed which should be OK for 24p and pan camera slowly, still you can see some strobe effect afterwards.



>>>How are you monitoring the footage?

I watch it on a 59/60 Hz monitor (VLC player).



>>>I sure wouldn't shoot it in 30p for playback in Estonia.

Why not? It's possible to edit both 30p and 50p videos on the same editing scale and Export your final video in 30p (I use Adobe Premiere CC 2014)



>>>In 50Hz mode I would likely shoot using 3840x2160 and test before hand using both 50p 150Mbps and 25p 100Mbps to see which gives the best results.

That's my main concern :) As much as I know, using 50p mode with 4k shooting, will force DVX200 to film using around 8,5 mpixels (in my opinion it's intentional loss of quality, thanx Panasonic)



>>>I would also likely select a frame rate which matches your other cameras. I'm not a wedding videographer but the last couple of weddings I did shoot I used 5 cameras for the ceremony.

5 cams? Were there any DSLR by chance? I'd love to use my Sony a6000, but the battery life + filming time limit of 29 minutes is the pain :D

Also, which frame rate did you use?

pancam
10-17-2016, 05:41 AM
Listen to David W. Jones and me! only 50p!

for example: what if you need to slow motion video
Why do you need 30 p?
more number of frames is always better

SrtBrad
10-17-2016, 08:04 AM
Don't use a new camera on a professional job that you don't know 100%. Always work with what you know till you're ready with the new camera.

Nicklas
10-17-2016, 09:27 AM
Listen to David W. Jones and me! only 50p!

for example: what if you need to slow motion video
Why do you need 30 p?
more number of frames is always better


Mate, that what I've been trying to clarify with other DVX200 users :)

When you film 4k 50p, the camera is only using 8,5 mpixels of resolution, whereas in 30p it's 12,8 mpix.

Of course 50p is much better, but I'm aiming at better quality, rather than smoother video.

Speaking of smooth video, has anyone tried OpticalFlow plugin yet? (Adobe Premiere Pro CC 2015) I've seen some impressive results in smoothing 24p video with it, there was NO jitter or strob at all.

JRJphoto
10-17-2016, 09:44 AM
Not sure what the OP means by "best quality" in UHD/30p mode. That is highly subjective.

Best answer is: whatever the client wants.

OMG. Strobe? It's called "judder" and it is the visual cadence of a motion image; the amount of which being dependent on the image's frame rate, obviously, and maybe a few other things like bit depth, shutter angle and the actual movement of the camera.

Whatever your region's utility frequency (50hz, 60hz) and analog television color encoding system (NTSC, PAL, SECAM, etc) is, those are the base standards for your camera or editing facility. Otherwise you have to convert the footage later. Nowadays with REC.709 and other HD, etc, standards, the world is a little easier to get along in...but, you still have to consider the product's final destination. If it's in Europe, you generally need to go with 25p, USA and the Americas is generally going to be 30p. Cinema is 24p. Everything else is masturbatory. If you want smoother motion (why?!) then you shoot with higher frame rates, again based on your product's final destination. A faster shutter will cause less motion blur. High contrast lighting will give an illusion of sharpness, whereas actually keeping sharp focus will be important. There's lots of tricks. You need to experiment with the camera long before using it on a commercial shoot.

ANYWAY...

I don't care for high shutter rates. Even when I shoot wedding videos I go for cinematic looks which really come from 24p, 180 shutter and a wide aperture. f/4.5 is fine and conceals ramping during zooms. DVX200 comes with 2, 4 and 6 stops of built-in ND if you need it. This smooth motion thing has to stop...it looks like cheap video. DVX200 also has VFR modes so when you assign it to a user button and overcrank up to 96fps you can have very smooth, sharp slow motion. You can't shoot slow motion and record on-board audio so you only want to shoot slow-motion stuff when you've planned for it. As a documentarian/videographer shooting the reality of the situation, you need to record in-camera mostly what you want the finished video to look and sound like. It's better...makes you a better videographer. And it's less "fixing in post" that you need to worry about so you can now deliver the project faster.

Shooting everything at faster frame rates because maybe you might want to slow it down on a slower frame rate timeline is backwards thinking. You need to get organized and plan your day. DVX200 gives you the luxury of 100Mbps VBR DCI 4K 8bit at 24fps with V-log L. It's really nice, especially now after the v.181 firmware update. If you're used to working with V-Log L then you should try it out on the DVX200. If not, stick to the basics. For a wedding, I would want to lessen any digital sharpening and make the image a little softer or diffuse. Not a lot, just subtle enough to make the skin smooth but the eyes still sharp. Or use a filter, but new videographers don't like filters for some reason.

And "Panny" is Panavision, not Panasonic. #StandardsPolice #ConventionsCop #ISONAZI :D

Barry_Green
10-17-2016, 10:21 AM
The problem with 50p would be the loss of field of view; if you need wide angle, 50/60p may reduce the field of view too much.

Why on earth would you want to shoot at 1/250 shutter? If you want to avoid stroby/choppy movement, that'd be the first thing to ditch!

If you want to increase quality, the first thing to do is add some light. That will do infinitely more for your video quality than a few pixels on the chip will.

In 50/60p mode the DVX200 uses as many pixels on its chip as any Red camera does in 4K mode. Yes it can be sharper in 24/25/30p mode, but -- it's no slouch in 50/60p!

If I were you I'd experiment with reasonable/sane settings - if 25p @ 1/50 doesn't look right to you, and you want more fps for less strobing, try 30p @ 1/50 (assuming you can deliver 30p to your client successfully). If that still doesn't work, then UHD 50p @ 1/50 is the way to go.

pancam
10-17-2016, 11:16 AM
Sorry
I do not understand, why the resolution increases as 30p compared to the 50p
4K is 4K
50p for smoother, as 30p

JRJphoto
10-17-2016, 12:14 PM
I do not understand, why the resolution increases as 30p compared to the 50p

Barry just said that actually doesn't happen. But, I'd like to know where the OP heard that since that's a crazy thing to say. Maybe he was thinking of....a 1080 punch-in on a 2160 clip? No, that can't be it. I'm confused. lol

JRJphoto
10-17-2016, 12:21 PM
Look at my boxing footage thread. (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?350139-Boxing-shot-with-DVX200) Those are basically the settings I use for most any video. Really, the only thing I change is the gain/ISO. When I do something more cinematic I change other settings, most specifically I only go 24p. But, that image looks crisp, I think. Pretty standard. You really don't need to overthink these things. Learn your camera, show the client what you intend, and say no if they want to do things you can't do or are uncomfortable doing. What helps with uncomfortableness actually? Not charging a lot...or not charging anything because you're just starting out and the client is basically a guinea pig.

Nicklas
10-17-2016, 02:16 PM
Thanks for your replies & advises guys!

Much appreciated!

I will practice some more tomorrow with both 30 and 50p modes.



=What helps with uncomfortableness actually? Not charging a lot...or not charging anything because you're just starting out and the client is basically a guinea pig.

You're actually right :D This wedding is indeed free of charge, as I'm still learning the camera and working on my videographer skills. However, I really wouldn't want to ruin my first wedding as people still have their expectations from me :)


As for this one -
But, I'd like to know where the OP heard that since that's a crazy thing to say. Maybe he was thinking of....a 1080 punch-in on a 2160 clip? No, that can't be it. I'm confused. lol

Here's a screenshot from the official manual.

117751

David W. Jones
10-17-2016, 03:12 PM
Well it's your camera and your gig, so do as you will. That being said, I just got back from shooting a project in the Netherlands, Germany, France, and Switzerland, and 25p was requested for acquisition by the client for eventual EU broadcast.

Barry_Green
10-17-2016, 03:31 PM
Sorry
I do not understand, why the resolution increases as 30p compared to the 50p
4K is 4K
The DVX200 has to crop in on the sensor to support UHD at 50p/60p. It uses the full sensor for 4K/UHD 24p and UHD 25p/30p. So when it uses the full sensor, it has (effectively) a 5K sensor to work with, which it scales down to 4K, which gives you incredibly sharp 4K.

On the other hand, when you shoot UHD 50/60p, the sensor is cropped down to a 4K sensor. The result is 4K footage, but it isn't oversampled (like it is in 24/25/30p). So 24/25/30p can be sharper than the 50/60p mode is.

Now, the 50/60 is as sharp as any native 4K camera, it still makes its image from a 4K patch of the sensor. It's just that when in 24/25/30, the DVX200 is actually notably sharper than other "4K" cameras, because it's working from a 5K sensor area.


50p for smoother, as 30p
Yes, more fps = smoother footage. 24 is the "strobiest"/"choppiest", 30p is smoother, 50 is even smoother, 60 is completely fluid and totally smooth.

pancam
10-17-2016, 09:18 PM
I understand now and thank you very much

pancam
10-17-2016, 09:36 PM
my footage FHD 50p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM2ptee5DPQ

MichaelA
10-24-2016, 04:12 PM
Hey Pancam; that looks pretty darn sweet! Nice work! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

benne13
10-24-2016, 07:44 PM
I second that.. Pancam that footage looks awesome!

pancam
10-25-2016, 02:10 AM
thank you very much