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7DDude
05-27-2016, 10:11 AM
What do many of you think about exposing on the DVX200? Do you underexpose, or overexpose, if so, by how many stops, or IRE. This is my first time working with a waveform monitor. For me, it seems the battle is, underexpose, then lift shadows in post, but increase noise, I have Neat Noise plugin for PPro, But that takes double the time on encoding out, and I have a pretty fast Win 7 syste, and it softens the image some. Then overexpose, and you get blown out highlights, but decent shadows, as I'm writing this I think that I would rather suffer in the shadows area, and save the highlights.

mapper65
05-27-2016, 12:22 PM
Although the factory scenes aren't too bad I think you should try out that GH4 still like scene before you go too much further. Scene files can really make a difference in what you are seeing and what a certain exposure does for one scene file, that same exposure may show different results in another scene file. It's my opinion that there is really only one scene file that Panasonic has spent some time on that works in the new firmware and that's the GH4 still like scene. I think it's a great scene to learn how to use the camera. It's not going to be perfect for every scenario but it may be the most accurate scene file for the DVX200 that was done in the new firmware. It's a great starting point to manipulate if you don't like something that you seen in that file.

I'll admit that I'm not a pro with a waveform monitor yet but using zebras has really got me where I've needed to be thus far. As Barry had mentioned in one of his posts, you really need to use a combination of everything that you have in front of you....zebras, waveform and even the monitor or EVF. I personally don't thing any one of those devices are 100% reliable on their own but it's more like using them all, remembering what you saw on the monitor and what the end result was during playback on a reliable monitor.

I think too many people just figure they will work things out in post. Although I'm not 100% perfect the last thing I want to do is have myself or worse yet someone else have to work with something that I shot in post production unless it's absolutely necessary. The only way to do that is shoot often and remember what you saw on the waveform, zebras, monitor and how that looks on a reliable source then keep that all of that in mind the next time you are behind the lens.

7DDude
05-27-2016, 01:45 PM
Although the factory scenes aren't too bad I think you should try out that GH4 still like scene before you go too much further. Scene files can really make a difference in what you are seeing and what a certain exposure does for one scene file, that same exposure may show different results in another scene file. It's my opinion that there is really only one scene file that Panasonic has spent some time on that works in the new firmware and that's the GH4 still like scene. I think it's a great scene to learn how to use the camera. It's not going to be perfect for every scenario but it may be the most accurate scene file for the DVX200 that was done in the new firmware. It's a great starting point to manipulate if you don't like something that you seen in that file.

I'll admit that I'm not a pro with a waveform monitor yet but using zebras has really got me where I've needed to be thus far. As Barry had mentioned in one of his posts, you really need to use a combination of everything that you have in front of you....zebras, waveform and even the monitor or EVF. I personally don't thing any one of those devices are 100% reliable on their own but it's more like using them all, remembering what you saw on the monitor and what the end result was during playback on a reliable monitor.

I think too many people just figure they will work things out in post. Although I'm not 100% perfect the last thing I want to do is have myself or worse yet someone else have to work with something that I shot in post production unless it's absolutely necessary. The only way to do that is shoot often and remember what you saw on the waveform, zebras, monitor and how that looks on a reliable source then keep that all of that in mind the next time you are behind the lens.

Mapper65, Man my head is spinning with this camera! SOOOooo many things to think about. Because there are so many new things to think about that I never had to think about before or with any mirrorless/dslr cameras. Just learning the different acronyms in the menus and what they do, is a major task. I'm not complaining, You have to think about how you'er going to use this camera, now that you have all these different options, of which I never had to think about when shooting before. Wow! But, I do have some time to learn it. I don't see how this is considered a Prosumer camera. I like to shoot fast, probably too fast, now I have to slow down and think through my shots more in using this camera. I'm glad I don't have a lot of pressure having to use it right away. Anyhow, thanks for the help it's been a big help, I'll tackle those scene files soon, that's a whole area unto it's self!

MichaelA
05-27-2016, 05:22 PM
Try shooting some test footage in auto then each of the scene files. Find a look you like... THEN fine tune the gammas and all the rest. The point being don't change up too many things at once in the beginning or you'll loose track of it all! Good idea to keep a notebook on settings, too, until you get it a bit more dialed in. Also, upgrade the firmware NOW, then go shoot some test reels. The old firmware, well, wasn't worth messing with for me. I put in V1.65 day one and started from there. I wouldn't intentionally overexpose unless you're playing with some of the v-log stuff and are going to spend a lot of time in post or have a trick LUT. I am actually leaving the exposure pretty much in auto (or area so I can dial in off center stuff) and playing more with shutter speed as if it were a shutter priority SLR old school camera for now. I've made some adjustments so that the shadows aren't all blobed out and blacks have good resolutions in them. Took a few tries. I think in the end, for me anyway, I'm better off having the camera bake in the look than tweaking it in post. Because I can really suck at color grading. Despite the form factor, it aint no prosumer rig! This is a whole lot of potential in a very compact package. As the wise man one said... "when given a glass sword, move slowly and consider carefully it's use and why it's in your life..."

JRJphoto
05-27-2016, 06:42 PM
I use the waveform as much as I can, then eyeball the histogram as I go. The aperture ring isn't as tight as I'd prefer it and it seems to creep-stop down a bit while shooting handheld and running around. I suppose the jostling about makes it creep. I'm not shooting raw, so I don't want to over or underexpose. I guess my general rule of thumb is to try to get my skintones at a medium point and the big highlights at 80 IRE if shooting VLOGL or 95-100 the rest of the time. I have my zebras at 90 because I like to be informed early on. lol Or, if skintones contain the highlights, then those get to 80 or 100 IRE, depending again on vlog or not. Skintones are probably the most important thing, so that's the thing to expose for, generally. Depends on the scene, or mood, or something, really...but if you're talking about 95% of work and not, ya know, the Godfather, or something, then, yes skintones are definitely the most important thing and you need to expose properly for them.

mapper65
05-27-2016, 07:01 PM
The important thing is to shoot, shoot again and then shoot some more. I agree with MichaelA, run in auto and learn abut each scene and then find a scene that you like. Once you have that nailed down then kick the training wheels off and start messing with iris, shutter and gain. If you came from the DSLR world set your gain to read in ISO for a little while.

kre57
06-08-2016, 04:08 PM
7DDude, I have the same problems you have mentioned. I am embarrassed by some of the footage I have had to use recently. I'll admit that I am a novice using this caliber of a camera (my only other experience was with a Canon XA-10 outside of the 5D MKIII). I expected a learning curve but After some time using the GH4 scene file I am struggling trying to get the exposure right. If I wasn't moving around trying to capture action as it happens then it might not be such an issue. It seems that there is very little wiggle room between over and under exposing. I currently have zebras set at 75% and expose to where I just see a few lines on the brightest part of the skin. This usually works okay but I lose detail in the shadows (see ungraded image below). This was high noon on a sunny day so maybe I am expecting too much from the shadows.

114456

If I open it up too much more then I get the weird glowing skin look on the highlights. I would like to use the waveform monitor more but It seems the only option is to have it take over the display when in use, unlike the histogram. I tried vlog and the VLog-to-V709 LUT but couldn't figure out how to get a decent look in post.

Also, white balancing this camera is a mystery to me (again, see image). Mostly this scene comes out really warm. Just today I got 3 different readings from the exact same spot using a WB card that came with my Porta Brace bag.

I thought I would be further along using this camera by now. I am not making movies here, just simple how-to videos for the landscape/irrigation industry, but I want them to look good. As far as fine-tuning a scene, I wouldn't know where to start. I wish Panasonic had done a better job of putting out a better standard scene file if such a thing exists. I guess I will switch to Auto and go thru the scene files again as MichaelA suggests. Maybe Mapper65 will do a US training tour soon and get me over the hump :D!

UWNick
06-08-2016, 04:17 PM
The important thing is to shoot, shoot again and then shoot some more. I agree with MichaelA, run in auto and learn abut each scene and then find a scene that you like. Once you have that nailed down then kick the training wheels off and start messing with iris, shutter and gain. If you came from the DSLR world set your gain to read in ISO for a little while.

Hi Guys,

First post here - I have been doing quite a bit of comparing the DVX200 to a GH4. Seems that with zebras set to 70 on both (using a Pana 7 - 14 on the GH4), the DVX exposes a bit more. Generally I like skin tones to be at or slightly under 70 on the DVX and at or a bit over on the GH4. The SCN6 on the DVX seems similar to CineD on the GH4 with better dynamic range than SCN4 ("GH4 still" which seems closer to Natural on GH4). I find the blacks a bit crushed for my liking using SCN4. Bring the saturation down a tad in post on SCN6 & it matches the CineD fairly well. Hope this helps...

dtocco
06-08-2016, 06:29 PM
Hi Guys,

First post here - I have been doing quite a bit of comparing the DVX200 to a GH4. Seems that with zebras set to 70 on both (using a Pana 7 - 14 on the GH4), the DVX exposes a bit more. Generally I like skin tones to be at or slightly under 70 on the DVX and at or a bit over on the GH4. The SCN6 on the DVX seems similar to CineD on the GH4 with better dynamic range than SCN4 ("GH4 still" which seems closer to Natural on GH4). I find the blacks a bit crushed for my liking using SCN4. Bring the saturation down a tad in post on SCN6 & it matches the CineD fairly well. Hope this helps...

I would agree. Scene 6 is giving me way more dynamic range than the "Still like" file. I'm a big CineD fan on the GH4 and the cameras match up pretty nicely running that setup.