View Full Version : Canon XLH1 to HDD
hopalongmedia
09-26-2005, 04:58 PM
Does anyone know if focus has a camera mountable HDD with an SDI input. So as to shoot the canon uncompressed on the shoulder?
I don't want HDV, but I've been shooting with an XL1s and the lens is really sweet.
I have heard rumours of such a device, but it would be a complex piece of kit, far more than just a hard drive. It would require an encoding computer aswell. Because of that, I doubt it will be as portable as a conventional Firestore. I was kinda hoping Canon would build more codecs into the camera itself for output over firewire... Shame they didn't!
harlan
09-26-2005, 08:08 PM
If you're referring to standard def SDI, then there's no trouble doing that at all, and I'm sure there'll be some options available to do it via a FireStore type device in the future (there's already a unit that does this now from another company, but the name escapes me).
If you're thinking of HD-SDI, then that's another story altogether. There's no real way of doing via HDD's without a raid array (ie: very inconvenient for location shooting, and way overkill for cameras at this level - on a Dalsa Origin though...). There used to be a device called the CineRam recorder from Baytech, but they're outta business and would only record a couple minutes worth of footage per $18K or so. There's also the Thomson/GVG Venom FlashPAK, a portable solid state Uncompressed HD recorder designed for the Viper FilmStream Camera is available, it'll only cost ya around $46K for 18 Minutes worth of 4:2:2 HD.
If you're wanting to capture HD-SDI on location, then I'd clearly recommend the rental of a HDCAM, HDCAM-SR, or D5 deck.
hope that helps.
Oh yeah didn't see that you said uncompressed! Like Harlan said, unless you have very, very big shoulders, it isn't going to happen.
My comments were about a rumour I heard of a "box" that accepted HD-SDI input and compressed it for storage on an internal hard drive. I guess the idea is to achieve better compression than HDV but still be portable.
videoteque73
09-27-2005, 08:59 AM
You don't need just a drive, you need to compress HD-SDI uncompressed (100MegaBytes+ data) into a hard disk. Possibly with an "open" codec, say DVCPRO HD...
Nathyn
09-27-2005, 09:53 AM
I asked the people at Focus about this and they say, "Unfortunately, adding HD-SDI is not a small task, but thanks for the product suggestion." I don't know what it means exactly but I suggested a unit that compresses HD-SDI then would spit it back out as uncompressed in the NLE of your choice.
-Nate
hopalongmedia
09-27-2005, 08:49 PM
Thanks guys,
Yeah, Uncompressed....I would definitely settle for DVCPRO HD. But I guess you would need an encoder on the drive. So I guess My thought would be...
An HDD with SDI input with a hardware encoder switch. (HDV, DVCPRO HD, HDCAM)
That would be cool.
Yo lo quiero.
Luis Caffesse
09-28-2005, 03:04 AM
So I can get the Canon and then some sort of hard drive option (that doesn't exist yet) with SDI input and compress the signal to DVCProHD? Cool!
So let's see...that's 9,000 for the camera.... plus...
what do you think an HD SDI input hard drive would go for? 3,000? 4,000?
So, roughly north of 12,000 probably.... for a 1/3" camera package.
Or, I could get an HVX200 with the upcoming firestore to shoot DVCProHD (AND at variable frame speeds to boot!) and still buy a new DVX100B with the difference.
:)
So I can get the Canon and then some sort of hard drive option (that doesn't exist yet) with SDI input and compress the signal to DVCProHD? Cool!
So let's see...that's 9,000 for the camera.... plus...
what do you think an HD SDI input hard drive would go for? 3,000? 4,000?
So, roughly north of 12,000 probably.... for a 1/3" camera package.
Or, I could get an HVX200 with the upcoming firestore to shoot DVCProHD (AND at variable frame speeds to boot!) and still buy a new DVX100B with the difference.
:)
If you needed to use different lenses or wanted to use a higher quality codec (I am not sure what would be lisenced though) then the XLH1 with this kind of arrangement could still be a good idea.
You reasoning is sound though... If you what DVCPROHD for sub 10K, just buy an HVX!
Luis Caffesse
09-28-2005, 04:32 AM
I was joking mostly...just being a smart ass.
The Canon looks like a great camera for the people it's aimed at.
I just wanted to point out that if anyone plans on using the HD SDI output then calling the XLH1 a $9000 camera is as ridiculous as calling the HVX a $6000 camera.
In order to truly get the most out of either of these cameras is going to require additional investment.
videoteque73
09-28-2005, 07:09 AM
Luis is right. It's not very smart to try to get uncompressed from a 1/3" camcorder. If you need to work live, it's OK. But if you want to edit, the HVX is really a much better solution to avoid HDV and still work in HD...
esperman
09-28-2005, 07:57 AM
Thanks guys,
Yeah, Uncompressed....I would definitely settle for DVCPRO HD. But I guess you would need an encoder on the drive. So I guess My thought would be...
An HDD with SDI input with a hardware encoder switch. (HDV, DVCPRO HD, HDCAM)
That would be cool.
Yo lo quiero.
Well just buy the HVX for DVCPRO HD and be done with it. You will only get uncompreesed if you go SDI out to an uncompressed edit system...and thats not practical on location.
As far as I'm concerned, the canon's SDI is only for viewing on a monitor in production. I don't think anyone in they're right mind would use an XL series camera in a live event production environment. Why bother, when we have great studio rigged cameras with CCU controllers?? And the cannon stock lense sucks for this type of event anyways.
Walter_Graff
09-29-2005, 10:17 PM
Outside of all the speculative talk here is a nice Music video shot on an FX1
http://www.theblacksheep.be/temp/norma.mov
aquafox
10-20-2005, 11:31 PM
Yesterday I was at the AudioVisual 2005 fair in Helsinki, and the local Canon reps were demoing the XL H1. I asked some tough questions and the rep said to me in a "I'm not supposed to tell you, but..." kinda way, that there was going to be a Firestore type of device very soon, that would record _uncompressed_ HD from the HD-SDI. Yeah, I know. I'm seriously doubting that this guy knew what he was talking about. I mentioned that there would have to be a huge, raided harddrive inside this thing for it to be of any use, and he just shrugged... The image looked good on the Panasonic 17" LCD, though just 50i, they didn't let me test 25F.
Barry_Green
10-20-2005, 11:48 PM
Probably was referring to the CineForm/Wafian new SilverOak product, which is a direct-to-disk HD-SDI recorder. It's not uncompressed though, it uses the CineForm codec. Should be pretty good anyway, as it's 10-bit 4:2:2.
I don't think there's been any announcement about what the product actually is or what kind of storage capacity it has or what the anticipated price will be though.
More info is available by clicking the link at the bottom of this page:
http://cineform.com/products/CanonXLH1Support.htm
icicle22
10-21-2005, 10:51 AM
I thought I read that it would hold 6 hours of Cineform Intermediate Codec HD. The price however is not in-line with the Firestore for the HVX . In fact it makes the Firestore seem downright cheap.
But you'll have to talk with them about that stuff until it's announced officially.
doondoon
10-21-2005, 04:46 PM
How do you think the native DVCPROHD 1080P 4.2.2 picture on the HVX-200 will compare with the XL-H1's interlaced 1080i via SDI in unison with Cineforms soon to be released product?
Anyone care to speculate?
robroysyd
10-22-2005, 08:40 AM
Checkout the Cineform site, they have a good example of how they compare to DVCProHD, their wavelet based codec is way better. Apart from the improved quality it also needs less CPU grunt to decode but it is more CPU intensive to encode.
Being wavelet based it offers much better visual performance, when the encoder runs out of bandwidth instead of producing visually objectionable macroblocks it lowers the overall image resolution.
No doubt this box isn't going to be cheap but compared to a HDCAM SR deck it'll seem very cheap.