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View Full Version : Major color upgrade coming for DVX200



Barry_Green
02-29-2016, 10:13 AM
Hey all,

I've been experimenting with some new firmware from Panasonic. They've been seriously reworking the color processing inside the camera to deliver "more natural" color, more consistently. The result is a new color palette that significantly enhances and "livens" up the DVX200 image.

I've spent extensive time with the DVX200, developing various scene files to corral the default (existing) color processing and get it to produce more pleasing images. We all know that not everyone was happy with the color reproduction of the very first DVX200 units (version 1.09 firmware), and that there was a significant change in color processing and accuracy in the version 1.25 firmware. In my opinion, the changes being made in this upcoming version are much more significant than even the 1.25 version was.

Under the existing (up to 1.40 firmware) color processing, we hear complaints of skin tones being either too yellow, or too "florid" (purply-red). While it seems like nearly all of those complaints have disappeared when folks use my GH4-emulation scene files, it would still be nice to have the color processing off the camera be delivering more natural color in the first place, and not need correction with scene files. That's what the new color palette does. And, it does it more consistently; whereas under the existing palette you might find skin tones more yellow under tungsten lighting and more florid under daylight balance, the new palette renders more consistent color properly under all lighting conditions. It's a pretty major improvement, IMO.

I posted some pictures in this thread (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?344882-Experimenting-with-DVX200-Color); in my viewing on the TV I can say that the new palette brings some major "mojo" with it. It adds a dimension of vibrancy and liveliness that the default palette doesn't quite have. Now, admittedly, none of us are all that happy with the factory-default Scene 1 color rendering (which is why I developed alternative scene files) but the fun thing to me is that the default rendering in the new palette's Scene 1 looks sooo much better that now, you may not need to use a different scene file. You still can, of course; all the image control options are still there for you to extend, manipulate, bias and shift the color any which way you want... but you may just find yourself happy with the standard settings on Scene 1 now. The color is now warmer and richer and deeper. The footage has more "wow" to it, IMO.

And have no fear, if you're mid-project this change won't make your footage incompatible with existing footage, since this new color palette will be menu-switchable; you'll be able to choose whether you want the existing color processing, or the new color processing, with a simple menu item.

I wanted to say something. Generally an NDA would prohibit talking about something like this before it's available, but Panasonic has given me permission to tell you that this is coming. This firmware is still under development, it's not ready for release yet. It will be available as a free firmware update, probably a few weeks from now.

andykwilkinson
02-29-2016, 10:26 AM
That is a very impressive response by Panasonic. I'm sure DVX200 users (and potential purchasers) will be absolutely delighted to read this news :-)

Thanks Barry.

pancam
02-29-2016, 11:07 AM
This is a very very good news!
Thanks Barry!

mapper65
02-29-2016, 12:28 PM
Thanks for the update Barry. Early on when we were all in a panic about the base image just not being what everyone was expecting I kept telling myself that deep down the camera had to at least be able to produce an image comparable to many other cameras on the market or possibly even better and we just weren't seeing that. If it wasn't for your scenes I would have returned mine and I'm sure that many others were in the same boat.

It's good to hear that Panasonic has committed to getting us at least that base image that we were expecting right out of the gate. The DVX200 was probably the only new cameras in a very long time that the web was not immediately flooded with everyone posting samples of what they shot. I really think it's because nobody had anything that they were particularly proud of. This is very good news and I'll anxiously await this new update. Thanks again!

ggrantly
02-29-2016, 02:48 PM
Barry, I know you have spent a bit of time with the PX-270 and was curious how you might compare the look of the two cams, resolution excepted. Do you suppose that the two could be matched fairly well as A-B cams.

Still wishing you would write a 270 book!

Grant

Barry_Green
02-29-2016, 03:56 PM
They can be matched very well; both cameras have extensive painting capabilities. The DVX200 handles low illumination scenarios better, due to a bigger sensor and much cleaner gain structure under noise. The PX270 has better ultimate color fidelity, from having three chips and recording 4:2:2. But yes they could be matched quite well.

I'd do a PX270 book, but not like I've done them in the past, sales are not what they used to be. It'd have to be a situation like the DVX200 book, and that means the Panasonic factory would have to want it enough. I don't know whether that will happen.

greytail
02-29-2016, 06:16 PM
This is good news indeed. Is there any improvement in the camera's low light capabilities as well? I've got my three cameras producing pretty good color thanks to the adjustment of one of Barry's scene files, but it has come at the cost of less low light capability.

topher5
02-29-2016, 06:27 PM
Our thanks for your tireless tinkering in camera.

I know this will sound outlandish but 'm going to ask anyway....
Will we see a firmware that uses both cards writing simultaneously to record 2 channels of colour to one card and one channel to the second.
So we can have 4:2:2 in camera recording? Even just for just a short record time. Maybe even 14 stops of dynamic range?

Please Sir can we have more..... bowl outstretched.

Vaughan Wood
02-29-2016, 08:00 PM
I knew having it's own forum would bring good things......(LOL).

jpvid
02-29-2016, 08:21 PM
Barry, many thanks for all your efforts to improve the look of this camera. I think we all knew the potential this camera had/has it just took someone like you and Panasonic's willingness to work with you to make it so, thank you. I've been very happy with your GH4 scene files, scene3 and scene5 have been working well for me with some small tweaks. Do you feel when this new update is released that the new scene files from Panasonic could replace the ones (GH4) you made?

Robert Bale Eventshd
03-01-2016, 09:08 PM
Sounds Good, I hope the work on the Highlight Clipping and add the option to rename scene files.

plegilink
03-02-2016, 11:07 AM
Hey all,

I've been experimenting with some new firmware from Panasonic. They've been seriously reworking the color processing inside the camera to deliver "more natural" color, more consistently. The result is a new color palette that significantly enhances and "livens" up the DVX200 image.

I've spent extensive time with the DVX200, developing various scene files to corral the default (existing) color processing and get it to produce more pleasing images. We all know that not everyone was happy with the color reproduction of the very first DVX200 units (version 1.09 firmware), and that there was a significant change in color processing and accuracy in the version 1.25 firmware. In my opinion, the changes being made in this upcoming version are much more significant than even the 1.25 version was.

Under the existing (up to 1.40 firmware) color processing, we hear complaints of skin tones being either too yellow, or too "florid" (purply-red). While it seems like nearly all of those complaints have disappeared when folks use my GH4-emulation scene files, it would still be nice to have the color processing off the camera be delivering more natural color in the first place, and not need correction with scene files. That's what the new color palette does. And, it does it more consistently; whereas under the existing palette you might find skin tones more yellow under tungsten lighting and more florid under daylight balance, the new palette renders more consistent color properly under all lighting conditions. It's a pretty major improvement, IMO.

I posted some pictures in this thread (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?344882-Experimenting-with-DVX200-Color); in my viewing on the TV I can say that the new palette brings some major "mojo" with it. It adds a dimension of vibrancy and liveliness that the default palette doesn't quite have. Now, admittedly, none of us are all that happy with the factory-default Scene 1 color rendering (which is why I developed alternative scene files) but the fun thing to me is that the default rendering in the new palette's Scene 1 looks sooo much better that now, you may not need to use a different scene file. You still can, of course; all the image control options are still there for you to extend, manipulate, bias and shift the color any which way you want... but you may just find yourself happy with the standard settings on Scene 1 now. The color is now warmer and richer and deeper. The footage has more "wow" to it, IMO.

And have no fear, if you're mid-project this change won't make your footage incompatible with existing footage, since this new color palette will be menu-switchable; you'll be able to choose whether you want the existing color processing, or the new color processing, with a simple menu item.

I wanted to say something. Generally an NDA would prohibit talking about something like this before it's available, but Panasonic has given me permission to tell you that this is coming. This firmware is still under development, it's not ready for release yet. It will be available as a free firmware update, probably a few weeks from now.

Where can we find your "GH4" scene files Barry?

mapper65
03-02-2016, 11:43 AM
Where can we find your "GH4" scene files Barry?

Here you go..

SCN1/SCENE1 is Natural
SCN2/SCENE2 is Scenery
SCN3/SCENE3 is Portrait
SCN4/SCENE4 is Cine-D
SCN5/SCENE5 is Cine-V
SCN6/SCENE6 is Standard

Mike Harvey
03-04-2016, 06:13 AM
Barry, do you have an ETA on the update, beyond "probably a few weeks from now"?

Barry_Green
03-05-2016, 05:05 AM
Barry, do you have an ETA on the update, beyond "probably a few weeks from now"?

Nothing official, no.

jpvid
03-05-2016, 07:48 AM
Barry, do you feel that this color update would be a replacement (meaning better) than the GH4 scene files that you put out for us?

slidemaster
03-05-2016, 08:40 AM
I would think so or he would not be investing the time. The GH4 files helped the loyal Panasonic types with GH4s. This will help incoming buyers as well. It literally makes me rethink the camera.

pancam
03-05-2016, 10:23 AM
http://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/3158-hands-on-with-the-panasonic-dvx200

This is a good test article
accurately show the errors
This yellow / violet-magenta in color shift that annoy me mostly
this disorder seems mainly in this is multi-camera shots
I still have this disorder after updates
although it seems that it decreases
This color error can be seen in the above video demo
as in this video:
DVX/HPX night shot comparison
Returns to Mario's
very hopeful that the new firmware help
and it will be a major breakthrough
THX

greytail
03-05-2016, 04:34 PM
I have responded to this review on the redshank site with this.
This is an out of the box review. It does not mention that the reason for the camera's perceived color problems are its default scene files. The article makes no mention of Barry Green's GH4 emulation scene files, nor the camera's ability to virtually paint any color profile you want. Here is an example of what several co workers think is accurate color and not in the best of situations. It was made using the firmware released last month, and a scene file that I adapted from one of Mr. Green's scene files. I reached this color look by comparing color from a Sony A7rii in standard mode with -3 contrast and adjusting the RED and R-MG until it matched the look of the other camera. https://vimeo.com/156187822

Barry_Green
03-06-2016, 04:12 AM
Barry, do you feel that this color update would be a replacement (meaning better) than the GH4 scene files that you put out for us?

It has definite advantages, yes. Because the GH4 scene files result in lower exposure levels and some loss of latitude (in their quest to match the GH4), where such moves are not necessary if not trying to match another camera. Also, the new palette is substantially more consistent across color temperature changes; the current palette can shift skin colors towards yellow under tungsten lighting and towards magenta/red under daylight. The new firmware responds more uniformly under a wide variety of color temperatures.

The GH4 scene files can still be used in the new firmware (it will be switchable between the palettes). But I would advise new scene file development be focused on using the new palette as its base.

mapper65
03-06-2016, 07:30 AM
The GH4 scene files can still be used in the new firmware (it will be switchable between the palettes). But I would advise new scene file development be focused on using the new palette as its base.

Hi Barry, you mention that the color palette will be switchable in the new firmware. What nomenclature are they going to use to differentiate between the new color palette and the old color palette? I'll be honest, I'm only curious because the original color palette seemed like such a debacle, how do you put a name to that without it sounding bad. I'm guessing that they are using something like Standard and Enhanced.

I'm hoping along with that new color palette that they will be giving us 5 additional scenes besides the one that you mentioned earlier because the original 6 scenes created for the old color palette once filtered through the new palette will be way off as far as being something usable. I know that's the reason that they are making the palettes switchable becuase if someone had something that they liked in the original color palette it will keep them from losing those scenes but with what sounds like much better processing of color in the new palette it only makes sense going forward that any scenes are built in that new palette. Most of us aren't skilled enough to do that, that's why I think they should give us 6 new scenes in the new palette and not just the one. Maybe that's already happening? It sounds like that one scene file that you mentioned may be the magic bullet for many users but it would be nice if they gave us 5 additional options that are compatible with the new color palette so we're not switching palettes just to use that one until a few other options show up that are done in the new palette.

Believe me when I say that I am grateful that they are doing this but I question them falling a little short and providing only one scene file for the new palette. Can't wait for the update!

Robert Bale Eventshd
03-09-2016, 05:57 AM
Hey Barry , with this new update are they going to address some of our concerns posted on the fequest post ...??

csroy@yahoo.com
03-09-2016, 04:54 PM
[QUOTE=mapper65;1986618710]Hi Barry, you mention that the color palette will be switchable in the new firmware. What nomenclature are they going to use to differentiate between the new color palette and the old color palette? I'll be honest, I'm only curious because the original color palette seemed like such a debacle, how do you put a name to that without it sounding bad. I'm guessing that they are using something like Standard and Enhanced.

I'm hoping along with that new color palette that they will be giving us 5 additional scenes besides the one that you mentioned ea.....


I have wedding coming real soon...I am planning to use DVX200...but the color shift on skins...real worries me....and am fighting myself to use dvx200 or use canon dslrs 70d & mark 3....

I have customized scene file 4 from the Berrys scene file 6...to lift more latitude....they works great in single right source...but when tricky lights...all go wrong...

I have live events uploaded in you tube....graded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i_l5Fzq7ts this is with leds panels on front and top tungsten light...you can see the skin tons...there is not easy fix for this...

MY QUESTION TO ALL : PLS LET ME KNOW, CAN I USE FOR WEDDING OR WANT ME TO USE DSLR ??? THANK YOU

Barry_Green
03-10-2016, 07:44 AM
Hey Barry , with this new update are they going to address some of our concerns posted on the fequest post ...??

I don't know what else may or may not be included in a forthcoming update. I was only given the color changes to test.