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Timo Flink
10-15-2015, 07:56 AM
Hi. I need some input from those who have experience with these two computers. I'm about to buy a new workhorse for 4K RAW video editing with Resolve, 3D with Cinema4D, and compositing with Fusion 8.

I have come down to two possible hardware solutions. Which one do you think is better in terms of speed, noise, heat etc (a plethora of whatnot you can think of).

1. Mac Pro 12-core with 64GB ram, 1TB ssd, and 2x AMD Firepro D700.
2. HP Z840 12-core with 32GB ram, 512GB ssd, and 2x NVIDIA Geforce GTX980Ti (if these can be used, otherwise K5200), plus thunderbolt 2 card.

I will have my 4K RAW data on G-tech G-speed 64TB raid (or similar system).

If you can suggest another possible system, I'm all ears. So, any thoughts? Thx.

David W. Jones
10-15-2015, 08:22 AM
I would do a quick read over system requirements before dropping the cash..... http://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/DaVinciResolve/DaVinci_Resolve_12_Beta_Configuration_Guide.pdf

mcgeedigital
10-15-2015, 08:49 AM
Yup BMD will have the latest specs.

And if you really want Davinci to scream, PC is the only way to go as there are no good options for multiple Nvidia GPUs on the mac side anymore.

Timo Flink
10-15-2015, 09:04 AM
I would do a quick read over system requirements before dropping the cash..... http://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/DaVinciResolve/DaVinci_Resolve_12_Beta_Configuration_Guide.pdf

Thx. HP Z840 is specifically mentioned, but no luck with Geforce GTX cards (except for UI). Need K5200, I see.

Timo Flink
10-15-2015, 09:09 AM
Yup BMD will have the latest specs.

And if you really want Davinci to scream, PC is the only way to go as there are no good options for multiple Nvidia GPUs on the mac side anymore.

Indeed. I have a limit to my budget. Only 14.000 € available for this workhorse, and that includes two UHD or 4K monitors. I know I can get that late 2013 Mac Pro system, but it seems to me Apple is lagging behind the competition now. I don't need it to scream, but the faster the better. Thx for input.

David W. Jones
10-15-2015, 09:11 AM
Operating system is also a consideration, as some other apps do not like the latest Mac OS.

I'm a Mac guy, mainly because it's very easy for me to perform administrator level work. But Matt is correct that if you want a screaming machine a PC is probably the way to go.

Timo Flink
10-15-2015, 11:11 AM
Operating system is also a consideration, as some other apps do not like the latest Mac OS.

I'm a Mac guy, mainly because it's very easy for me to perform administrator level work. But Matt is correct that if you want a screaming machine a PC is probably the way to go.

Thx. I've been a Mac guy for a long time. Resolve, Cinema4D, and Fusion should all work with El Capitan, and that's all I really need plus Photoshop CS6 (should work as well). BMD notes are basically saying that Mac Pro runs the software straight from the box.

alaskacameradude
10-15-2015, 11:38 AM
Yup BMD will have the latest specs.

And if you really want Davinci to scream, PC is the only way to go as there are no good options for multiple Nvidia GPUs on the mac side anymore.
?? I'm a little confused here. Are you saying Resolve won't work with more than
1 GPU on a Mac?

mcgeedigital
10-15-2015, 11:50 AM
?? I'm a little confused here. Are you saying Resolve won't work with more than
1 GPU on a Mac?

Oh it will WORK, but Resolve relies enormously on the GPU, and it is better optimized for multiple NVIDIA GPUS at this time.

If all you are ever doing is light grading on 1080p footage you can do that with most any platform.

It is when you get node-heavy, start doing noise reduction, etc on 4k+ footage that the nMP will grind to a halt.

I see it all of the time at places I freelance at.

And I have plenty of friends who do color grading as 100% of their business. ALL are mac guys. ALL have switched to HP PCs with either Windows or Linux as the "Heavy Iron" grading systems.

They still use their Macs for FCP, Final Cut X, etc.

Timo Flink
10-15-2015, 01:19 PM
Oh it will WORK, but Resolve relies enormously on the GPU, and it is better optimized for multiple NVIDIA GPUS at this time.

I am curious now. Since you are obviously an expert on this, how much difference would there be between nMP and HP PC (or a custom one :)), if both have two GPUs? I take it you can add more than two NVIDIAs to your HP PC, but I cannot afford more than two at this time. Some benchmarks appear to show that NVIDIA Quadro K5200 outperforms AMD Firepro W9100, but difference depends greatly on the software used.

adkimery
10-15-2015, 02:32 PM
I am curious now. Since you are obviously an expert on this, how much difference would there be between nMP and HP PC (or a custom one :)), if both have two GPUs? I take it you can add more than two NVIDIAs to your HP PC, but I cannot afford more than two at this time. Some benchmarks appear to show that NVIDIA Quadro K5200 outperforms AMD Firepro W9100, but difference depends greatly on the software used.

Something else to consider is that if you go Mac the GPUs you originally order are the only GPUs that machine will ever have. If you go PC then in 2-3yrs you can upgrade just the GPUs at a fraction of what a whole new computer would cost. Performance today might be close but what about performance a few years down the line? Also keep in mind that the current MacPros were released in 2013 so you are already looking at top dollar prices for at least 2yr old tech.


-Andrew

GaryinCalifornia
10-15-2015, 02:47 PM
You can look into what I'm thinking of doing... a few people are putting new processors in the 2009, 2010-2012 Mac Pros...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?341075-8-Core-Mac-Pro-Trashcan-or-8-Core-PC-Build

alaskacameradude
10-15-2015, 03:52 PM
Oh it will WORK, but Resolve relies enormously on the GPU, and it is better optimized for multiple NVIDIA GPUS at this time.

If all you are ever doing is light grading on 1080p footage you can do that with most any platform.

It is when you get node-heavy, start doing noise reduction, etc on 4k+ footage that the nMP will grind to a halt.

I see it all of the time at places I freelance at.

And I have plenty of friends who do color grading as 100% of their business. ALL are mac guys. ALL have switched to HP PCs with either Windows or Linux as the "Heavy Iron" grading systems.

They still use their Macs for FCP, Final Cut X, etc.

Ah yes, the new Mac Pro. I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking
of them, I was thinking of the older Mac Pro towers.
The nice thing about the older Mac Pro's is that they
can use the same, new GPU's that the PCs use. I've
got a NVidia 980 Ti in my 2009 Mac Pro.

alaskacameradude
10-15-2015, 03:55 PM
Something else to consider is that if you go Mac the GPUs you originally order are the only GPUs that machine will ever have. If you go PC then in 2-3yrs you can upgrade just the GPUs at a fraction of what a whole new computer would cost. Performance today might be close but what about performance a few years down the line? Also keep in mind that the current MacPros were released in 2013 so you are already looking at top dollar prices for at least 2yr old tech.


-Andrew
Unless you go with a 2009-2012 Mac Pro in which case
you can use, say the NVidia Titan X 12GB card....

alaskacameradude
10-15-2015, 04:04 PM
Pretty sure the old Mac Pro's can use more than
one NVidia card. The problem is the limited power
available on an old Mac Pro...you can easily power
a 6GB 980 Ti or a 12GB Titan X. But for anything
more.....like powering another card.....you need
an external power source....instructions for doing just this
can be found in the Mac Pro upgrade Facebook group.
But honestly the big GPUs like the 980Ti and Titan X do
a pretty good job in Resolve by themselves.

adkimery
10-15-2015, 04:11 PM
Unless you go with a 2009-2012 Mac Pro in which case
you can use, say the NVidia Titan X 12GB card....


Agreed, my comments were just comparing a nMP to a new PC. I've got an '09 MP that keeps eeking out a bit more usefulness as I upgrade parts.


-Andrew

mcgeedigital
10-15-2015, 06:10 PM
Ah yes, the new Mac Pro. I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking
of them, I was thinking of the older Mac Pro towers.
The nice thing about the older Mac Pro's is that they
can use the same, new GPU's that the PCs use. I've
got a NVidia 980 Ti in my 2009 Mac Pro.

Agreed.

Timo Flink
10-15-2015, 11:55 PM
Thank you all for input. One final question. BMD indicates you can use Geforce Titan X only as UI&GPU. Does that mean you can utilize only one of them, and buying two of those won't work? Maybe I should start thinking of building Hackingtosh :)

alaskacameradude
10-16-2015, 01:23 AM
Thank you all for input. One final question. BMD indicates you can use Geforce Titan X only as UI&GPU. Does that mean you can utilize only one of them, and buying two of those won't work? Maybe I should start thinking of building Hackingtosh :)

The problem as I understand it, is the power supply in the old Mac Pro towers. They only have two power leads
to plug a GPU into....and the Titan X (or most other good new GPU's) will take both of them.
As I understand it, you have to buy an external PSU to power the 2nd Titan X on one of
the old Mac Pro's. If you are interested in finding out more, I'd highly suggest joining this group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Mac.Pro.Upgrade/

One guy in particular in this group, (Ben King) knows just about everything there is to know
about those old Mac Pro's. They helped me upgrade my old 2009 Mac Pro single quad core
(2.66ghz) to a 2010-12 Mac Pro by 'flashing' the firmware and installing a six core 3.46ghz
CPU and the GTX 980 Ti GPU. Also lots of tips telling about how to add USB 3 ports to an old
Mac Pro, installing various SSD drives, and even using an external PSU to power extra GPU's for
your computer. I think they may even have some way to hook up an external enclosure with
more than 2 GPU's in it, but I'm not 100% sure on that one.

I think messing around and updating the old Mac Pro towers is probably pretty close to building
a Hackintosh in many ways. You don't have to know quite as much about building a computer,
and you don't have quite as many options, but you also don't have to worry about OS X updates
either. I have really got into it, because I had an old 2009 Mac Pro.

BLahey
10-20-2015, 11:03 AM
In this tutorial, the guy is installing a titan into a 2009 Mac Pro w/ external PS. its for Octane, But i think it would be applicable towards Resolve as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcPM8idL3OU

xenogears
10-23-2015, 02:46 PM
I used a 2009 Mac Pro with a 780ti using externally a continuous powered 650W P.S. like this:
https://vimeo.com/72823826