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View Full Version : Fireworks from a drones POV...



ZazaCast
07-05-2014, 04:11 PM
WOW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9KZ3jgbbmI#t=53

groveChuck
07-05-2014, 07:56 PM
I don't know how that Phantom survived... :shocked:

Did you see that it was GoPro's video of the day yesterday?

Jay Birch
07-06-2014, 03:18 AM
while beautiful... This is the kind of thing that is gonna get our little sub industry quickly regulated to the hilt.

Bassman2003
07-06-2014, 07:29 AM
Pretty cool. So many areas where these things are going to push boundaries and annoy at the same time...

Mark Williams
07-06-2014, 07:54 AM
I see the day coming when you can only fly over your own property as a hobbyist and other property only if you are a licensed operator.

Bassman2003
07-06-2014, 08:01 AM
I agree. While we all like these things, there are some serious issues to be dealt with regarding their use. I am 50-50 on my opinions and will accept whatever society comes up with as far as rules.

Mark Williams
07-06-2014, 08:32 AM
I have been holding off buying a quad to use in commercial work until the rules are established.

Phalynx
07-06-2014, 03:07 PM
You know, honestly, I just can't stand all of the useless press on "Drones". If it is an RC airplane, it is a drone. If it is a model helicopter, it is a drone. If it is a weather balloon, it is a drone. If you put a Gopro on a hang glider, some news agency will call it a drone.. If you put a Gopro on an ultralight aircraft, someone will call it a drone. A quadracopter is only as safe as the person operating it. As with anything else, the operator is responsible for all property damage that occurs from it crashing. Now, take Yosemite, they say you can't fly a drone in the park because it could cause injury to someone..... But, they will allow you to climb the side of a sheer face cliff, you can hang glide from the side of the mountains, and that's ok. Some how, neither of those are considered dangerous to others.... In addition, neither of those requires ANY license. Let's hop into an ultra light aircraft for a second.... It can weigh less than 254 lbs and requires ABSOLUTELY NO license to operate it. You can launch a weather balloon with 12 lbs of weight in it and launch it all the way into space... Not a single license is required. None of these things require a license.. All of these things could cause injury to a person. But, for some reason, "drones" are considered dangerous and can't be allowed...

Makes me mad........stepping off my soapbox now. :)

Mitch Gross
07-06-2014, 07:12 PM
Drones are also noisy and annoying if you are seeking tranquility with nature in our national parks.

David Saraceno
07-07-2014, 08:55 AM
Besides the safety problems, the issue with sUAS vehicles in National Parks is the noise.

Many years ago, I remember camping in the valley floor at Yosemite, and at 11:30 pm all you heard was Johnny Carson's monologue emanating from 10,000 RVs.

Pretty annoying.

dustylense
07-07-2014, 11:44 AM
How in the world did this guy not get shot down?!?!?!?. Maybe he flew F16's in the first Gulf War.....

kwkeirstead
07-07-2014, 03:26 PM
Very, very impressive video

I did a slow motion fireworks recording last week from a fixed tripod position - glad I did not post it (i.e. super boring compared to this video).

However, I am with Mark in holding back until we find out what the rules are going to be.

Nothing wrong buying today a $100 flying machine so you get up to speed (no pun intended) before you start trashing Phantoms with expensive on-board camcorders.

mcgeedigital
07-07-2014, 05:10 PM
while beautiful... This is the kind of thing that is gonna get our little sub industry quickly regulated to the hilt.

Yup totally irresponsible.

Mitch Gross
07-07-2014, 08:02 PM
Yup totally irresponsible.
This had the potential to ruin a multi-million dollar live event and television broadcast, viewded by millions of people both at the event as well as around the country and even the world. If someone in authority had mistaken that little DJI Phantom & GoPro for something more ominous, it could have shut down the entire show. And then think of the lawsuit, not to mention angry mobs.

Boats are not allowed out on the water near the fireworks barges and aircraft are not allowed in the airspace in the vicinity of the fireworks show. And for incredibly obvious reasons. What makes this guy special, other than being a jerk?

Dave Allen
07-08-2014, 04:16 AM
What kinds of ominous things can a DJI Phantom be mistaken as?

Egg Born Son
07-08-2014, 04:38 AM
In Egypt during the coup they were used for news gathering/propaganda depending on who you talk to. Those using them were accused of being enemys of the state. Operators were arrested and may have been amongst those recently sentenced for execution. Egypt is not the US but point is collecting footage is as ominous as your accuser decides it is.

Bassman2003
07-08-2014, 06:55 AM
The last three posts demonstrate just how complicated this situation is. I think the industry is doomed as there will always be somebody who thinks "what is the harm in flying my little drone?" Kind of a clash between old world reality and the new world is my oyster thinking.

Egg Born Son
07-08-2014, 07:20 AM
Yeah, the comments on youtube under that video drove me crazy. People bagging out anyone who pointed out the laws or potential dangers as a wowser. No regard for anyone that might be trying to operate drones in a legitimate compliant manner, let alone trying to promote business application. It is and will be regulated. It has to be. How accessible that is to industry and enthusiaists will be defined over the next couple of years and cowboys can only push the debate in the direction of hysteria. It's all well and good that hobbyists don't know. But also unlikely because there is a learning curve, which leads to signing up to forums and any relevent forum will be discussing the state of regulation and what it means to the enthusiasts.

Truth is it's all up in the air (pardon the pun) at the moment but incidents like this will inform the debate that determines the future of public access to this airspace. Some maturity and good behaviour on the part of all drone operators now could result in greater access in the future. Of course you know the more authoritative the poster the greater the chance they are a teenager. I knew everything once too.

Mitch Gross
07-08-2014, 05:35 PM
What kinds of ominous things can a DJI Phantom be mistaken as?
Think about the situation. It's night. This is specifically a no-fly zone. It is New York City. Y'know, the place where 9/11 killed almost 3000 people. There are hundreds of thousands if not a million people gathered on the shores of the East River in both Lower Manhattan and Brooklyn to watch the event. There must be a vast police presence. And their greatest fear is that someone could turn this into an opportunity to unleash something horrible.

Suddenly someone in law enforcement spots something up in the air where absolutely nothing is allowed to be. And they have to think fast because so many lives are at stake. How much time do they spend analyzing what that thing is before reacting?

Or people in the crowds spot it up there. And they are not professionals, do not know what these things are, do not have the experience to judge the relative size of such a thing up in the nighttime sky, and are likely a little drunk so have poor judgement. They just see it buzzing around up there. And in a world full of conspiracy theories, someone panics. In a crowd of a million people packed together like Times Square on New Year's Eve.

It doesn't matter what a rational person might think of a DJI Phantom in more mundane situations. But in this instance, it could have very easily started something that all would have regretted.

Phalynx
07-08-2014, 06:28 PM
Mitch, I respectfully disagree. A DJI Phantom has flashing green and red lights. Every aircraft has these same lights. Who suspects this is something ominous? No one that I know of. What we do get is a TON of incorrect information. This video was shot in Florida, not New York. The guy used a bit of common sense... He didn't fly over crowds. He didn't fly over boats. He flew over water, empty water. It may be illegal and we'll find out in the end. But, that is about as safe as you can get for this recording. The type of concerns people keep mentioning are way overblown. Airplanes fly legally over downtown cities every day pulling giant banners in the wind. These are quite large and 1000X more dangerous than a simple drone. They are 100% legal. 100%. Cars are allowed on the road daily. People text in them while they drive.... It is dumb, but no one is banning cars. You can fly an ultralight aircraft without a single license, downtown, in major cities, with a camera on it..... They are basically kites...... They are dangerous. They are 100% legal.

We need to stop with the drama. Support sensible rules and regulations and set up no-fly zones. I support that. But, a drone is just an R/C aircraft and they are also legal to fly except near an airport. Everyone can be ticked at me all they want. I am just stating common sense. Every day you get up and get in your car, you are capable of accidentally causing much more damage than a drone can inflict in its entire life. They are here. They will be here. That isn't going to change. Everyone needs to come to terms with it and help it be as safe as possible. Complaining about every single sighting isn't doing anything positive.....

Just my 2 cents.

groveChuck
07-08-2014, 07:22 PM
Yep, West Palm Beach, FL. Not that it makes it less stupid, just a location without the jangled nerves of NYC.

Although in NYC, two guys allegedly were involved when:


An NYPD helicopter nearly collided with two drones over the George Washington Bridge yesterday, resulting in a matching pair of felony reckless-endangerment charges for two men. The chopper pilots said in a police report that they were patrolling just after midnight when they "observed flying object[s] at 2,000 feet in vicinity of the bridge," reports the New York Post (http://nypost.com/2014/07/07/two-drones-in-near-miss-with-nypd-copter-over-gwb/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow). After swerving to avoid a collision, the pilots trailed the drones north and alerted NYPD officers, who found Remy Castro, 23, and Wilkins Mendoza, 34, near Fort Tyrone Park. Castro and Mendoza, who paid between $500 and $700 each for their drones, dismissed the seriousness of their offense. "It's just a toy," Castro said in Manhattan Criminal Court yesterday afternoon. "The copter came to us." Mendoza, meanwhile, called the incident "crazy," and the menís lawyer said that their drones canít even go above 300 feet, adding, "They did nothing more than fly a kite." But a friend of the pair says they've bragged about flying at least at 5,000 feet and have been posting Instagram photos of their nightly flights.

http://www.newser.com/story/190615/nypd-chopper-nearly-downed-by-2-guys-with-drones.html
(http://www.newser.com/story/190615/nypd-chopper-nearly-downed-by-2-guys-with-drones.html)
I just got a Phantom 2/Zenmuse 2 weeks ago, and trust me, I won't be flying at night over densely populated areas at night.

To paraphrase Hannum saying of PT Barnum, "There's an idiot born every minute..."

Dave Allen
07-08-2014, 11:36 PM
Think about the situation. It's night. This is specifically a no-fly zone. It is New York City. Y'know, the place where 9/11 killed almost 3000 people. There are hundreds of thousands if not a million people gathered on the shores of the East River in both Lower Manhattan and Brooklyn to watch the event. There must be a vast police presence. And their greatest fear is that someone could turn this into an opportunity to unleash something horrible.

Suddenly someone in law enforcement spots something up in the air where absolutely nothing is allowed to be. And they have to think fast because so many lives are at stake. How much time do they spend analyzing what that thing is before reacting?

Or people in the crowds spot it up there. And they are not professionals, do not know what these things are, do not have the experience to judge the relative size of such a thing up in the nighttime sky, and are likely a little drunk so have poor judgement. They just see it buzzing around up there. And in a world full of conspiracy theories, someone panics. In a crowd of a million people packed together like Times Square on New Year's Eve.

It doesn't matter what a rational person might think of a DJI Phantom in more mundane situations. But in this instance, it could have very easily started something that all would have regretted.

So slightly drunk, irrational, uneducated people and police who must react instantly might think blinking lights up the sky could be ______________?

Dave Allen
07-08-2014, 11:45 PM
This?

113581d1272756459-anyone-else-running-a-fu-and-k-u-brake-light-war-of-the-worlds-large-.jpg (http://www.hdforums.com/forum/attachments/softail-models/113581d1272756459-anyone-else-running-a-fu-and-k-u-brake-light-war-of-the-worlds-large-.jpg)

Jay Birch
07-09-2014, 03:32 AM
Wouldn't take much to rig a Phantom up with anthrax or similar chemical weapon.

Come on guys, you are filmmakers, think of the ominous possibilities... There are plenty!

Dave Allen
07-09-2014, 07:22 AM
Wouldn't take much to rig a Phantom up with anthrax or similar chemical weapon.

Come on guys, you are filmmakers, think of the ominous possibilities... There are plenty!

Exactly. Mysterious white powder. Yeah. that's it! Or maybe a death ray. Or perhaps Al Qaeda is flying a magic carpet carrying a dirty bomb..oh, wait a minute, maybe there is radioactive dust in those aerial shells! Better ban those too! You can NEVER be too safe.

David W. Jones
07-09-2014, 07:39 AM
Exactly. Mysterious white powder. Yeah. that's it! Or maybe a death ray. Or perhaps Al Qaeda is flying a magic carpet carrying a dirty bomb..oh, wait a minute, maybe there is radioactive dust in those aerial shells! Better ban those too! You can NEVER be too safe.

Being from Boston one would think you would be a little more sensitive to what could happen.

Might I suggest we refrain from this type discussion before this thread is locked down.

Jay Birch
07-09-2014, 07:39 AM
I asked a pilot friend of mine about the worry of drones for him. He said a Phantom could possibly take down your typical 6 seater plane if it went into the engine/props. An S800 could take down something quite a bit bigger.

It does concern me alot. Even our AD4 seems lethal, in the wrong hands (hell, even in the right, but unfortunate, hands)

Phalynx
07-09-2014, 09:15 AM
Guys, RC aircraft have been around since the 50's. All of these have the same capabilities. Birds cause more damage than RC aircraft in planes. Look it up. We don't need drama in this industry. We need safe, reasonable operation, free from drama.

txdp
07-09-2014, 09:35 AM
The difference now is the drones are way more affordable so more people are getting into this field as a hobby not related to filmmaking. Soon something terrible will happen, and very strict rules will be put into place.

Dave Allen
07-09-2014, 09:41 AM
Being from Boston one would think you would be a little more sensitive to what could happen.

Might I suggest we refrain from this type discussion before this thread is locked down.

That is why I am championing banning manufacturer and possession of home food pressure cookers, ball bearings, nuts and bolts, or at least forcing people to go through a 15 day cooling off period, then applying for a permit and license to purchase a pressure cooker after demonstrating proficiency and swearing under oath that they will only cook foods with it.

Mark Williams
07-09-2014, 09:49 AM
Guys, RC aircraft have been around since the 50's. All of these have the same capabilities. Birds cause more damage than RC aircraft in planes. Look it up. We don't need drama in this industry. We need safe, reasonable operation, free from drama.

Yes, RC craft have been around since the 50's. But I will add that they were mostly flown at club fields and not in the general population at large. At the club fields there were flight rules, experienced operators to learn from and decorum in place that taught responsible operation. No one flew at night. The advent of RC copters pretty much negated the use of club fields and they are now flown everywhere.

David W. Jones
07-09-2014, 12:07 PM
That is why I am championing banning manufacturer and possession of home food pressure cookers, ball bearings, nuts and bolts, or at least forcing people to go through a 15 day cooling off period, then applying for a permit and license to purchase a pressure cooker after demonstrating proficiency and swearing under oath that they will only cook foods with it.

3 people died and 250 people were injured in this bombing and you think this is funny? I'm sorry but you need to take this attitude off of DVXuser and go away!

Phalynx
07-09-2014, 12:52 PM
Yes, RC craft have been around since the 50's. But I will add that they were mostly flown at club fields and not in the general population at large. At the club fields there were flight rules, experienced operators to learn from and decorum in place that taught responsible operation. No one flew at night. The advent of RC copters pretty much negated the use of club fields and they are now flown everywhere.

Actually, they created an entire new market called "park flyers" specifically for flying in public parks. They were quieter, smaller, and cheaper....... like quad copters. There are RC clubs.... but I would bet that over 50% of rc aircraft are not flown at clubs. They do fly them at night as well. All I am saying as I don't want to tick any of you guys off is lets just keep to the facts and support sensible regulation but not over regulation. We all desire to be safe. Some people don't think about the safety as much and those people are the ones that have the questionable videos on the net. The fact is every time people get in their cars, they don't think about the safety of what they are doing either. Cars weigh 4000 lbs. Let's keep it all in perspective and stop trying to stop industries.

Dave Allen
07-09-2014, 02:49 PM
3 people died and 250 people were injured in this bombing and you think this is funny? I'm sorry but you need to take this attitude off of DVXuser and go away!

88681

P13
07-09-2014, 04:35 PM
I saw a photo of a Phantom on the same evening destroyed going through fireworks, it doesn't seem particularly responsible. I suspect laws will end up getting stricter as not a month goes by without at least one controversial incident, here in the UK the Tour De France resulted in no-fly zones being set up with notices months in advance as there were low flying real helicopter, there was at least one, possible two illegally flown Phantoms who's users took it upon themselves to fly over the cyclists.

Mitch Gross
07-09-2014, 05:27 PM
Sorry for my errors, I didn't follow the story closely enough so should not have commented in that way. But my main point is that (a) such use is irresponsible because this event was paid for by someone else and this guy is intruding on it, to the possible detriment of the event itself, and (b) if I was at any venue and found a drone buzzing around that took away my personal enjoyment of the event, then I'd be pretty pissed.

Dave Allen
07-09-2014, 06:48 PM
So an event held in public, open to the public, for the public, at night, was intruded upon because a radio control toy was slowly moving about in the darkness at an altitude of 200-300 feet in proximity to temporary brilliant flashes of light?

Let's say hypothetically that the multirotor was instead quite large, like a DJI S1000, and rather than hovering inaudibly at 300 feet AGL, was instead at 75 feet up in the inky black darkness notwithstanding the tiny bright and colorful LED lights. Would the sounds of the electric motors interfere with ones personal enjoyment of the public outdoor event if the electric motors could be intermittently barely heard over the vocal chatter, the ahs of the approving crowd, the honks of car and boat horns, and booms of the black powder lift charges and the incessant, huge booms of exploding pyrotechnics?

Is such an outdoor public event normally considered a place of quiet like an indoor performance theater as an example?

Dave Allen
07-09-2014, 06:59 PM
I saw a photo of a Phantom on the same evening destroyed going through fireworks, it doesn't seem particularly responsible. I suspect laws will end up getting stricter as not a month goes by without at least one controversial incident, here in the UK the Tour De France resulted in no-fly zones being set up with notices months in advance as there were low flying real helicopter, there was at least one, possible two illegally flown Phantoms who's users took it upon themselves to fly over the cyclists.

Aerial shells can blow right through thick plywood. Their lift charges are extremely powerful. A multirotor radio control craft wouldn't stand a prayer in hell of surviving. In the instant matter, the tiny Phanom would fall to the water in pieces. There is no realistic possibility of a shell being deflected off course.

As to the Tour, motorbikes with cameramen and especially spectators are far more likely to harm riders, but those are allowed because it has to do with revenue generation so safety is thrown to the wind.

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand

David Saraceno
07-09-2014, 09:16 PM
I believe everyone has made their points in this thread.