Making money from one's camera.

[Tina C]

In my first thread, a couple of people mentioned that it's good to have one's own camera as a student, in part, because the chance exists to make some money on the side with it.

Can y'all tell me how one goes about doing that? What do you do to make extra money with your camera? Looking for ideas.

[PDX_DVX]

Well, one way to do it seems to be filming weddings. Usually you can find a family friend, or relative that knows someone who's getting married, and you can shoot their wedding for a reasonable price, and use that as a sort of wedding video demo reel to give to other couples in the hopes that they hire you to shoot. I know some people that shoot weddings professionally charge anywhere from 1-3 thousand dollars at times. It's a good way to make money, however, it can actually be really time consuming and stressful, plus you will most likely need a few people to help you shoot the wedding. Sometimes you can find jobs on here that will call for a videographer in a certain place that is a paid gig also. Making music videos for indie bands is also another way to make money, although I have never done this, so I don't know how successful it is...

[Slimothy]

Just shot a wedding last night.......BBBBBBBBOOOOOOORRRRRRIIIINNNNGGGGGGG.. ..but it paid for the top ramen I ate today.

[Tina C]

Yeah, I figured it would be boring work, but if it pays well, I guess it's good enough to pay the bills. I didn't realize there was such a need for wedding videographers. Guess it's more likely I just didn't think about it at all.

[Rasquachemedia]

I did search on wedding video services. A lot of them don't list what they charge (which means expensive to me).

The cheapest i saw was $1500 up to $10,000. from one camera to two from sd to hd from 2 hours to 10 hours.

Imagine all those happy couples who can't afford that, not even 1500. I would imagine there is a market out there.

But I figure you need editing skills too. Not sure if people would pay for footage left on mini-dv with no edits. If their totally broke, maybe.

[scharky]

I myself started shooting weddings about 2 years ago. I started off with the first two that I did for free (YES FOR FREE) but from there I have since done about 30 weddings all from references from those two. I don't do weddings full time, I actually don't like them at all, and have since raised my price so that I get fewer weddings but make just as much money doing it. I had to do it as I work full time at a photography studio, am a full time student and I wanted to focus more on film making. My wife runs the second camera, so that works out great, but I have to tell you, it's hard work. I had a wedding last night, got there at 9Am for the bride getting ready, and didn't leave the wedding until 11:30PM. That is a long day, and pretty much had my DVX, dv-rig pro, light, and giant battery pack on my shoulder the whole day. Needless to say I am pretty sore today. Do some research, look at how wedding videos are done, and then do a couple just to get your name out. If you get a good demo going, it will pick up from there.

[Tina C]

Wow, those are some harsh hours for shooting a wedding scharky.

Is there anything else one can do to earn extra money with a cam?

[Sirius_Doggy]

What do you do to make extra money with your camera? Looking for ideas.

Some things can't be discussed on DVXUser.com.....:evil:

[Tina C]

Heh. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEAN, SD!! :grin:

I was wondering if someone wasn't going to make a hint.

I live in such a cow town, there probably isn't much out there other than weddings.

[Rasquachemedia]

tina, you live in santa maria, right? i presume there is a big Latino population there. Quincenieras (kinda like coming out parties your 15 year old girls) might be an option. I doubt you could charge much, to get started isn't bad. You could do your first two for free and build from there like scharky.

Since its free, you could set your boundaries (2-4 hours max).

Maybe you could do second camera for an establshed professional in your area. I was thinking about that too.

[Slimothy]

[QUOTE=Rasquachemedia]tina, you live in santa maria, right? i presume there is a big Latino population there.
QUOTE]

Or you could talk to your local minute-men representative about taping their manhunts...

[Tina C]

True, Rasquachemedia I think there are a lot of Quincenieras here.

Slimothy, we're not close to the border at all, and with Vandenberg Air Force Base nearby (the setting for part of The Andromeda Strain -- love that movie), the only Minutemen we have here are missiles.

[ullanta]

In a more general sense, think niche markets. They're easier to break into. Sheesh, I know some folks who make lots of money shooting trains for some weird niche market. Look around for small theater productions, real-estate firms, hotels, etc. that you can convince need some video services...

[galt]

I live in such a cow town, there probably isn't much out there other than weddings.

So shoot cows. See if the state fair wants a promo video done for next year, or just some event footage to edit into next year's TV commercials. Real estate, Funeral videos, Legal Videos (depositions, video wills, injury claims), special interest videos (how to grow a cow, how to bake a perfect apple pie), 80th (or 8th) birthdays, 50th anniversaries, family reunions, barn contruction companies, documentaries, museum pieces. Video opportunities are bounded only by your imagination and perseverance.

First mission is to make sure every cow in town knows you are available. And every time you meet someone, think about what you could do with them.

[Daniel_Runyon]

I don't really understand all the negativity toward doing weddings, I've started doing them and love it. If youre really creative about it, it feels like (and truly is) making little movies, and getting paid for it. As a matter of fact, its just all around cool to get paid to use your equipment in pretty much any way your own morals will allow. When I first decided to do weddings, I read several posts on several forums with people being down on "having" to do weddings, and I approached it with a sense of dread....I was only going to do them because I had to make money, as I had quit my job to do video full time. Once I got started, I discovered that it was a wide open arena for personal creative expression and fullfilment.

Not only has it allowed me to start making a truly independent living, I can make money in concentrated lumps and have alternating periods of free time to use for making the movies that caused me to want a DVX to begin with. Also, making these little movies for people has increased my shooting, story telling, and editing skills many fold. I would not hesitate to recommend it, but you would be advised to lose your built in negative dread or thoughts of it being "boring". I cannot fathom how one could think shooting weddings is boring.

Also, I just got a gig for a Quinceniera thats coming up in a few months, but my booking/reservation fee got me some instant cash. I've also been doing video for my local historical society. It's not a big cash cow like weddings, but it pays a little and gets my business a lot of local exposure. As Barry mentioned, you just have to search your area and find whatever niches are open for filling.

[Tina C]

I suppose it's relative, Daniel. If what you really want to do is make movies, then maybe weddings might seem boring in comparison. But I have to say, I've been to a few really fun weddings, where the families and guests were real characters, so yeah, I'm sure there can be some fun times, too. Maybe it's something you just have to do in order to get a feel for it. But I'm glad you enjoy it so much, and I'm sure your enjoyment translates into a much better product for your clients, and ultimately, their satisfaction and happiness with what you've done for them.

Galt, I'm sure the cows of Santa Maria will thank you for their future face time. ;) Great ideas, thank you. :)

[Daniel_Runyon]

If what you really want to do is make movies, then maybe weddings might seem boring in comparison.

Right, but if you take on the proper view that they are movies, then youre winning all the way around. And, youre freeing yourself up from a jobby job, which allows you more time to make movies! Trust me, it's all in how you look at it as to whether or not youre doing what you want to be doing, or less than.

[galt]

Daniel, I think you are right that shooting weddings is great training for shooting movies. I have told people as much. Combines a "semi-script" with a "one-take" requirement, and you really have to polish your craft. After a couple of dozen weddings, when you go to shoot a film, you should have every production aspect except lighting down cold. I just don't like them because I don't like weddings. I don't like being at one as a guest, so working at one is ten times worse. I guess shooting funerals would be worse.

[Rasquachemedia]

Daniel, how has your experience been with the actual clients. Weddings are supposed to be happy memorable moments, but when family gets together it isn't always that way. Also I presume you have to manage or deal with a lot DIFFERENT expectations and personalities. Or is something you are distanced from because you are so busy filming?

Do you scout the church and reception locations before the day?

[Daniel_Runyon]

Greets, Sir Galt!

For me, its all about the editing. The whole time Im shooting the wedding, Ive got my focus and enthusiasm on the editing. Im totally in tune with my future self sitting there editing, so I'm honestly not as concerned with the event day in and of itself. Perhaps this helps...youre just getting through a few hours of shooting for the greater benefit of the many hours you get to spend working with the footage. So far, Ive been really lucky in finding inspiration while editing, turning out some seriously fun, and in my view quite inventive schtuff. But I could see that if one were just doing straight wedding videos (no ref to the sexual orientation of either the couple or videographer!) it could be pretty boring.

[Barry_Green]

I don't really understand all the negativity toward doing weddings, I've started doing them and love it. If youre really creative about it, it feels like (and truly is) making little movies, and getting paid for it.
I have the highest respect for good wedding videographers. It's an incredible amount of hard work, but it's also easily the most popular way to make money as a video professional. And good money, at that -- $1500 to $3500 per week is easily do-able. But you'll work the full week doing it.

If it's something you love doing, as Daniel does, then it can be a great career option. I can't stand doing it, but that's why there's different strokes for different folks. People who do it, and do it well, are a very talented and hard-working group.


Also, making these little movies for people has increased my shooting, story telling, and editing skills many fold. I would not hesitate to recommend it, but you would be advised to lose your built in negative dread or thoughts of it being "boring". I cannot fathom how one could think shooting weddings is boring.
Sounds like you should have some very happy customers too! Anyone who approaches their work with such an appetite and appreciation is likely a) happy, and b) has happy customers. Great job!

[Terry_Lasater]

Making money from one's camera.

[To the tune of Steve Martin]
Imagine actually deriving income (thus, a living) from your desired profession. Hmmm.... that idea is just crazy enough to work!

[Daniel_Runyon]

Rasquachemedia, I've not been doing them long enough to have a wide range of experience, but so far the families have been one of the coolest aspects of the whole deal, even when they were a bit crazy....the reasoning? I'm a people studier, so I just enjoy watching them both in the wild and over and over during editing, much as if I am watching the discovery channel. I havent felt distanced from them at all, quite the contrary...I get fairly involved with them, and after the whole things over they have seemed to not want to let me go! One of the couples, several weeks after the whole thing, gave me a $100 and an awesome DVD (Run Ronnie Run) as a thank you for how awesome they thought I was, and their finished video. If I should run up on a couple who dont have such open personalities, I would indeed just stay off in my own world, do my job, study them like ants, give them the goods, and they would never know how deeply they were discected.

[Daniel_Runyon]

I would like to ammend my statement of not being able to fathom how one could see them as boring, to include the closing statement "once you've done a couple"....because they move so fast and feel so hectic, there is no time for boredom! It is a definate rush! The presure is on and you get one shot to get it right!

[Kirk Gillock]

"one shot to get it right"? hmmmmm With the divorce rate now a days, just wait a few years and you can film a second take. :)

Those of you who are married, how often do you view your wedding tape? And when you do view it is it because you're happy and want to relive fond memories or because your spouse messed up BIG TIME and you want to sit and remember the good times? I can just picture most of these wedding videos being used in moments of spite, later on.

Example: The husband has an affair. The wife sits and watches the tape and then throws it at her husband when he comes home.

So, if you make wedding videos, don't forget that there's a 50% chance that your video will be thrown at someone or tossed in the trash after the divorce proceedings.

Happy filmmaking! :)

[Sirius_Doggy]

So, if you make wedding videos, don't forget that there's a 50% chance that your video will be thrown at someone or tossed in the trash after the divorce proceedings.

That's why when I provide DVD's to wedding clients I give them to them in special foam rubber covered amaray cases.:engel017:

[Slimothy]

The only reason the weddings I've done are BBBBOOOOOORRRRRIIINNNGGGG is because I set up the camera, go to the bar, stumble back, spill jack and coke all over my camera, accidently kiss the groom as he walks by, pull out the tape and hand it to the unhappy couple. Any suggestions? Kidding.

[Daniel_Runyon]

Actually, part of my sales pitch is for it being used as a marital aid. Perhaps 10, 20, 30 years from now their erroded passion could be re-kindled by watching their old video! It could remind them of who they used to be and trigger pools of stored youthful vigor!

[Tina C]

OR, it could be used as ammo:

"Fran, what happened to your ass? It used to be so small! Geez, it seems like so long ag..."

"Screw you, George! You never had that beer belly before, so just shut up. And look -- you used to be romatic, what the hell happened to that?!

[Moonwind]

You also have birthdays, anniversarys, Bar Mitzvahs, small business grand openings, small business training videos, low end TV commercials, local band music videos, senior citizens events ... all those could be potential money makers. Not HUGE money makers, but they would get your feet wet.

[BLUESPIDER]

You guys haven't done a wedding till you've done an Asian wedding. Asian weddings can sometimes last 3 days long! Everyweek, someone's cousin aunt sister dads fomer roomate is getting married. I one time had about 17 hours worth of footage. Price they paid me.,.... 300 bucks and some left over fried rice. images/smilies/sad.gif

[PDX_DVX]

In high school every time I did a video for a club or something school related (well, not *every* time) all they gave me were gift certificates. I mean, I'm not complaining, but sometimes it sucked being stuck into one store. So if you're doing a wedding video, don't take gift certificates as payment because it's not as satisfying....

[scharky]

Hell, I would take a gift certificate if it were to best buy or something then I would be like "look honey, we have to buy that big screen tv, we have to spend it at Best buy, so might as well get something good" :)

[Slimothy]

300 bucks and some left over fried rice. images/smilies/sad.gif

Lol

[natob2]

Wedding videography is one of the lowest rungs on the latter. Most of the work is cheesy and poorly produced because relatively speaking, the money is horrible. Money draws talent, and most wedding videographers just don't have it, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Furthermore at $1,500 how good a production can be done for the producer to make a profit? Yes, you might make $1500-$3000 in a week but as it was stated earlier that is a full week worth of work...or more! And let's face it, you're not going to be working 52 weeks out of the year. To put it in perspective ENG videographers easily go out at $1500 a DAY. And all they are doing is shooting and handing over a tape!

Try to stay far away from wedding videography. If you're going to do it at all, do it when you are a student, then get the hell out of dodge. As cynical and negative as it sounds I compare wedding videography to working in pornography, once you start it's hard to get out. As a student you probably are not going to make much money off your camera, but don't sweat it, the best thing you can do with that camera is gain experience and build a reel. Then out of college you can get a job with a production company, or TV station or post facility that does GOOD work you are proud to be a part of, get respect for and make a steady, consistent money that you support yourself on and build your reel to move on to bigger and better things.

As far a suggestions for making money with your camera:
- Documentaries/promotional videos
- Find a rich school with rich parents and do sports videography for college recruiting videos.
- Low budget TV spots for local/regional clients.

I must stress though as a student its just hard to make money with your gear. You could be given a Betacam, or SDX900 or a Varicam and you still couldn't make money with it. It's way more about who you know, your network, and "What was the last big project you did?" than than your toys. Students just don't have these things...yet.

[Slimothy]

Wedding videography is one of the lowest rungs on the latter. Most of the work is cheesy and poorly produced because relatively speaking, the money is horrible. Money draws talent, and most wedding videographers just don't have it, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Furthermore at $1,500 how good a production can be done for the producer to make a profit? Yes, you might make $1500-$3000 in a week but as it was stated earlier that is a full week worth of work...or more! And let's face it, you're not going to be working 52 weeks out of the year. To put it in perspective ENG videographers easily go out at $1500 a DAY. And all they are doing is shooting and handing over a tape!

Try to stay far away from wedding videography. If you're going to do it at all, do it when you are a student, then get the hell out of dodge. As cynical and negative as it sounds I compare wedding videography to working in pornography, once you start it's hard to get out. As a student you probably are not going to make much money off your camera, but don't sweat it, the best thing you can do with that camera is gain experience and build a reel. Then out of college you can get a job with a production company, or TV station or post facility that does GOOD work you are proud to be a part of, get respect for and make a steady, consistent money that you support yourself on and build your reel to move on to bigger and better things.

As far a suggestions for making money with your camera:
- Documentaries/promotional videos
- Find a rich school with rich parents and do sports videography for college recruiting videos.
- Low budget TV spots for local/regional clients.

I must stress though as a student its just hard to make money with your gear. You could be given a Betacam, or SDX900 or a Varicam and you still couldn't make money with it. It's way more about who you know, your network, and "What was the last big project you did?" than than your toys. Students just don't have these things...yet.

I think I disagree w/ just about everything said here:
1. "The money is horrible": Not if you're a student w/ no job, eating ants and convincing your girlfriend to pay for the rental of Sleepover Nightmare.

2. "Money draws talent, and most wedding videographers just don't have it, otherwise they wouldn't be there": I know alot of people who are young and have great potential and just need a place to start. Also, how many "directors" do you know that actually have "talent". Just because you film weddings for mulah doesn't mean you most likely aren't talented.

3. "And let's face it, you're not going to be working 52 weeks out of the year.": If you're making $3,000 a week as a student, you don't need to be working that often.

4. "And all they are doing is shooting and handing over a tape!": Who the hell does that?!

5. "I compare wedding videography to working in pornography": What've you been doing in the bathroom w/ the bridesmaides? On a more serious note, I think you will find you stand absolutely alone w/ this comment. I don't even see where you're heading w/ this one.

6. "the best thing you can do with that camera is gain experience and build a reel" Hmmmmmmm.....Isn't that what weddings are for?

7. "that does GOOD work you are proud to be a part of, get respect for and make a steady, consistent money that you support yourself on": Because we all know those DIRTY SCUMMY wedding videographers who do SHITTY work, have no SELF RESPECT and will never make STEADY CONSISTENT money filming WEDDING HORSESHIT.

8. "Find a rich school with rich parents and do sports videography for college recruiting videos.": Yea....This is way less scummy then finding a couple who will actually have use of their video in 20 years. Go and single out some yuppies, propose to film their next Barry Bonds for the low price of whatever because their chances will be SO MUCH BETTER if their is some tape on them.

Your comments are pretty bold..

[Daniel_Runyon]

Weird.....I dont feel like a no talent...and this whole thing of sitting here watching the Firefly DVD's right now instead of kissing ass in the corporate world sure does feel good....what with the money I make paying my bills and all. Strange. Maybe I have some sort of bizarro psychosis that keeps me from seeing reality? Gosh...I feel so scummy...and low rungish now! Ooooo....the doctor thinks Mal is going to turn his sister over to the Alliance! I dont care, I'm still free, you cant take the skies from me........burn the land and boil the sea, you cant take the sky from me......

[Tina C]

Hey, if it suits you, screw what anyone else thinks. Less competition anyway.l ;)

[natob2]

I think I disagree w/ just about everything said here:
1. "The money is horrible": Not if you're a student w/ no job, eating ants and convincing your girlfriend to pay for the rental of Sleepover Nightmare.

2. "Money draws talent, and most wedding videographers just don't have it, otherwise they wouldn't be there": I know alot of people who are young and have great potential and just need a place to start. Also, how many "directors" do you know that actually have "talent". Just because you film weddings for mulah doesn't mean you most likely aren't talented.

3. "And let's face it, you're not going to be working 52 weeks out of the year.": If you're making $3,000 a week as a student, you don't need to be working that often.

4. "And all they are doing is shooting and handing over a tape!": Who the hell does that?!

5. "I compare wedding videography to working in pornography": What've you been doing in the bathroom w/ the bridesmaides? On a more serious note, I think you will find you stand absolutely alone w/ this comment. I don't even see where you're heading w/ this one.

6. "the best thing you can do with that camera is gain experience and build a reel" Hmmmmmmm.....Isn't that what weddings are for?

7. "that does GOOD work you are proud to be a part of, get respect for and make a steady, consistent money that you support yourself on": Because we all know those DIRTY SCUMMY wedding videographers who do SHITTY work, have no SELF RESPECT and will never make STEADY CONSISTENT money filming WEDDING HORSESHIT.

8. "Find a rich school with rich parents and do sports videography for college recruiting videos.": Yea....This is way less scummy then finding a couple who will actually have use of their video in 20 years. Go and single out some yuppies, propose to film their next Barry Bonds for the low price of whatever because their chances will be SO MUCH BETTER if their is some tape on them.

Your comments are pretty bold..

There are obviously some wedding videographers on this board. I am sorry if I offend. My goal is not offend but to offer advice.

Yes my comments are bold because I work in the film industry on a daily basis and I have taken all the necessary steps in life to get there. I can say what I say with utmost confidence. I do work with some of the most respected writers, directors, production companies and post-production facilities in the world and I make a living doing it. I know what I am talking about.

I'm sure most of us here want to do the best creative work possible. My point is, long term, stay as far as way from wedding videography if you want to achieve this. The business model for this is inherently prohits good, long term, consistently creative work. Yes, you need to pay the bills but you can pay the bills flipping hamburgers too.

And I just HAVE to address this comment:
"4. "And all they are doing is shooting and handing over a tape!": Who the hell does that?!"

There are thousands of shooters employeed around the world working freelance who shoot and hand over the footage to their producer at the end of the day. Look in any city and state production guide/creative directory and you will find many videographers who do this for a living.

[Barry_Green]

Disparaging wedding shooters is rude and outrageous. Just like disparaging shoe shiners, or teachers, or anyone else who loves their profession and excels at it. Sorry, but your comments are just way out of line.

Flipping burgers? That's just absurd. A burger-flipper will make maybe $280/week ($7/hr x 8 hrs x 5 days), and will most likely hate his/her job. A wedding shooter will make five to 10 times that much. And a wedding shooter can be refining their storytelling skills, working with their gear, getting experience, and mastering a craft (even if it is "only weddings") vs. flipping burgers. And if they're doing what they love, and making good money at it -- how can that possibly be disparaged?

Regarding "lowest rung on the ladder" -- depends on what ladder you're talking about. If someone wants to work in film, making films, then they should go out and make films. Not everybody wants to do that. Some people are writers, some are poets, some are painters, some are videographers, some are filmmakers, and some are wedding shooters. And there's not a thing wrong with that. Commercial directors frequently make lousy film directors -- are we to conclude that someone who works in commercials is more of a "filmmaker" than someone who tells 20-minute narratives through wedding stories, just because a commercial director is higher paid?

Not everyone's goal is to direct feature films. If someone enjoys making wedding videos, and they get satisfaction and fulfillment from producing something that makes the family happy, then what exactly is wrong with that? And if they can get paid $72,000 to $180,000 per year to do it -- well, sorry, I just don't see what's wrong with that.

(and yes, only the good ones will get those rates -- but if you're no good, why are you doing it?)

(and you can tell the good ones -- they're the ones who'd be doing it for free if someone wasn't willing to pay them. They're the ones who feel a calling to the work, who just *have* to do it).

I can't stand it, I hate everything about the process -- but I've got the ultimate respect for those who do it well. It's a lot of work.


"4. "And all they are doing is shooting and handing over a tape!": Who the hell does that?!"
Now, on the other hand, I'm with natob2 on this one. Shooting ENG or convention coverage is ideal. I don't know about $1500/day, that seems way, way high -- the going rate around here is $1350 per day for a two-person crew and gear, usually a shoulder-mount camera and a sound person running an FP-33 mixer and a 416 mic on a boom pole. But yes, the luxury of shooting, handing over the tape and walking away -- that's sweet. For a DVX shooter who's good at what they do, $850/day is certainly do-able. No editing -- that's the ticket!

[natob2]

I can't stand it, I hate everything about the process -- but I've got the ultimate respect for those who do it well. It's a lot of work.



Barry, your comments are well put and well taken. My comments are a matter of my own opinion and I feel very strongly about them. I worked very hard to get beyond the world of wedding videography, corporate videos and public access-level commercials. Believe me, I have been there. I freelanced for 3 years in college doing it to support myself and my work as a filmmaker. I just personally believe that in such an industry with amazing creative opportunities, there is reason to strive for something beyond that world. Again, I am sorry if I offended anyone.

[Daniel_Runyon]

And a wedding shooter can be refining their storytelling skills, working with their gear, getting experience, and mastering a craft (even if it is "only weddings") vs. flipping burgers.

Regarding "lowest rung on the ladder" -- depends on what ladder you're talking about. If someone wants to work in film, making films, then they should go out and make films.

Shooting ENG or convention coverage is ideal

Indeed. Shooting weddings allows me to make my $ from my own creative gifts and juices while I work on my dramatic features...and as mentioned, increase my skills, rather than have any non related job that would suck all my time and soul while I take the crumbs of free time left to struggle out a movie. It is not my goal to make a lifelong career from doing wedding videos, but if for some reason it was all I ever had it still beats the stuffing out of kissing any.....ANY bosses ass....anywhere, and having to keep a schedule forced on me by the man. Wedding video is also one of the more steady sources of video work in my area.....which is a factor that must be considered. Not everyone lives in a place that has ENG and convention work falling out of the sky....not to mention I would never want to live in an area that would....I prefer the rural life.
As far as just being fun, wedding videography is wide open for creativity...just being able to express yourself artistically, if one has the vision to do so. It's all in the individual outlook. I can honestly say I find any and all video that I get the op to shoot/edit comepletely fascinating, no matter what type of video it is. One of my first jobs was shooting a product demo DVD of color changing coffee mugs...just one mug after another on a black background having water poured into them and showing the changes. It was so awesome when I cranked the master ped down and made those mugs look totally isolated in space...the lady was amazed at how it turned out!

Oh no! That dude on Persephone has forced Mal and Jayne to come to his tent at gun point....wonder what he wants? You cant take the sky from meeeee.....!

Much like the crew of Serenity (Jayne not widthstanding), for me, it's not just about the money....it's about independence....and I am, if anything, Fiercely Independent!

[GenJerDan]

Since you brought it up. Why didn't Jayne sound strange to me as his name? I've been wracking my brains for a while trying to figure out what other Jayne I've run across. In literature? Another film/tv show?

Dan

[Daniel_Runyon]

I think it's just the poetic contrast between his frame/personality and name....it's so out of whack it's perfect! Do you remember him from the classic film My Bodyguard?

[GenJerDan]

Pretty sure I didn't see it.

And, no, it wasn't the contrast that I was feeling. It was just not even a moment of confusion, like he was named Hillary or Beverly or Gale or Kimberly. Not even a blink, which to me says I've heard it before as a man's name.

Maybe I'll just ask Joss, if I run into him.

Dan

[Slimothy]

Now, on the other hand, I'm with natob2 on this one. Shooting ENG or convention coverage is ideal. I don't know about $1500/day, that seems way, way high -- the going rate around here is $1350 per day for a two-person crew and gear, usually a shoulder-mount camera and a sound person running an FP-33 mixer and a 416 mic on a boom pole. But yes, the luxury of shooting, handing over the tape and walking away -- that's sweet. For a DVX shooter who's good at what they do, $850/day is certainly do-able. No editing -- that's the ticket!

You know whats funny, is that my friend just recently got done telling me a story about his wedding videographer who charged 2500 and did exactly that. Handed him a tape after the wedding reception! My point is that I don't think someone who even takes it remotely seriously would just hand over a tape at the end of a wedding. I think conventions and such are a bit different.

[Rasquachemedia]

$2500 for one hour of raw footage? I would have gone postal on that videographer!

[Peter Gaudry]

I've just come out of filming my first wedding.

For $3500 bucks, I shot a 40minute love story of them over a year period. (What, a year for 40 mins? Well we shot maybe 8 hours of footage, it was like a mini movie with script and everything).

Then we shot their ceremony and the reception. I was late to the reception, very very late. They were pissy, but because we were putting final touches on the aforementioned mini movie, they got over it.

The movie got a standing ovation at the reception, and they're still waiting (1 month now) for their wedding video. Again, the goodwill built up with the movie makes them not care so much.

Did I earn the money, yes absolutely. However, realizing that most people wouldn't cut this kind of deal I'll tell you about the ceremony day. It is hard work, you end up physically tired, but if you get winning shots, there's plenty of room to be creative. I say go for it, and at least pay off your DVX that way.

Just make sure that your mini movie doesn't have an outtake of a guy showing his man-tits, and then have that playing in the background while the groom and his mother are having their good bye dance.

And then make damn sure you don't get it on tape.

Like I did :grin:

[Tina C]

Priceless, Peter!

Were they pierced?

[eignacio]

You know whats funny, is that my friend just recently got done telling me a story about his wedding videographer who charged 2500 and did exactly that. Handed him a tape after the wedding reception! My point is that I don't think someone who even takes it remotely seriously would just hand over a tape at the end of a wedding. I think conventions and such are a bit different.


$2500 for raw footage?
I guess your friend needs to get better at shopping around for good deals.

[Final Design Studios]

Dude, I make commercials....it works pretty well.

[Loki]

I feel I need to pipe in here with my two cents...

I just shot my first wedding this past weekend. I probably didn't go about it in the most professional manner... business wise I mean.... I have yet to be payed, but I still have the tapes so all is good for now.

anywho, I arrived at the brides house at 11:30 am.... and finished the day at 1:15am... that was a long...long... day.. I hired a friend of mine to be on second camera. In total we got nearly 13 hours of footage, it was pretty insane, especially since it was a greek wedding.

I would have to say that doing the wedding was pretty boring for the most part, but this was a friend's bro that was getting hitched so it wasn't too bad.

I ended up shooting the days events more like a documentary that a "wedding video" as it were... I have some really nicely composed shots in there, and gave my friend (who is editing it) a lot of shots to use to make something nice.

It was a hell of a lot of work though, don't think I would do it as a main career.. but it is definitely something i will get into for the money.

as an aside.. the DVX really shows it's weakness in low light...especially when the groom asks you to shoot the wedding at 24p... ugh... gain cranked to 12db to even see anything.

but anywho.
cheers,

[Daniel_Runyon]

Dude, I make commercials....it works pretty well.

Greets, Toilet! Ive got a movie making buddy in Alaska that got a cool gig doing a local TV show http://www.thevenueon5.com/ .

[smithgallTV]

Nat,

despite the rather offensive way you stated your point I understand what you are saying. If you want to progress beyond wedding dont devote alot of time to weddings. The problem with that is the vary nature fo wedding allows one to hone the craft that lets them go beyond it if they so choose. I act in theatre and local commercials and industrials. The industrial is to the actor what the wedding video is to the director or cinematographer. When i act in a training video and make $500 for the day I am still a professional actor and perhaps a bit higher on the ladder than say your uncle murray that took drama at Junior college. However I am not working in an environment that will allow me to win an oscar. But every time i look into the camera and explain to my imaginary coworker the benefits of using a certain sales technique when selling fertlizer I am improving my acting skills. Thats all it is. Its practice for the big game. When we shoot wedding videos and get paid we are professional videographers. We are higher up that that same uncle murray that just bought a miniDV at walmart. Every time we frame a bride and groom we shoud be practicing so that some day if we want to move up we will know how to frame Bradd Pitt or Julia Roberts.

I woudl think that any professional woudl understand that a craft such as this requires practice and the development of techniqe more than anything. Woudl you look down on Michael Jordan for having spent hours shooting hoops at a neighborhood court before he became great and played in an arena? When did the rolling stones become great? was it when they were playing bars? wouldnt your logic imply that if they had any talent they wouldnt be playing in a bar? Ray Kroc made mcdonalds into the biggest restaurant chain in the world, but before that he was a lowly milkshake machine salesman. Do you think that his experience selling milkshake machines to resturants helped him recognize the opportunity to go into businessoriginally with the Mcdonald brothers? You see my point, everyone has to start somewhere. Infact starting out anywhere is so much better than not starting out at all.

I for one woudl love to start directing $100 million movies. I mean why not. but i have a feeling i can do less damage doing a $1500 wedding a few times first. Im not upset with what you said. Your point was made (albeit it could have been a bit softer) however dont forget where you came from and where you are.

[robmyers]

they move so fast and feel so hectic,
there is no time for boredom! It is a definate rush!
The presure is on and you get one shot to get it right!

sounds like you're lifting eminem lyrics....
:happy:

[Terry_Lasater]

lol! Mom's spaghetti... :grin:

[robmyers]

Do you think that his experience selling milkshake machines to resturants helped him recognize the opportunity to go into business originally with the Mcdonald brothers?


who knew the wedding theme would bring out so much thought and wisdom?

for me, for now, i'm more of a musician than a photographer (though i make more with a camera by the hour than with a guitar it most situations). but in the music biz we have the same dichotomy. you wanna play music? don't work for a record company. seems like the 2 would go hand-in-hand but they don't. HOWEVER, when it comes to playing in say, a wedding band. there are tons of musicians from bands you love who do it. pam bricker, from our band, thievery corporation, was an amazing singer who could take a festival crowd and make them feel like they were in a smokey bar. she was always playing weddings. the more time you're at your instrument, the more honed you become at your craft. the hard part is dealing with the bufoons who hired you when they don't realize that your making fr%&*$n art here, man.

[Daniel_Runyon]

sounds like you're lifting eminem lyrics....
:happy:

Hilarious observation, Rob! You're right. Thanks a lot, BTW. Next wedding I shoot I'll be hearin that blasted song in my head all day...and feelin it, too! I'd best build my Zen muscles back up, quick!

[garyt903]

Tina C: Regarding your "making money" question... with a great camera like the one you now own (congratulations!) there are several avenues you can pursue to make extra money:

1) advertising agencies; the one near me does a lot of car commercials. The Account Exec's and creative directors arrange everything. All you do is show up with a camera and a tripod. They pay .44 cents a mile + give you a per diem for lunch/dinner expenses + $250 per day for the camera-person (you) and an extra $250 a day more for your camera rental. Basically you're a subcontractor. Normally the AE's are so disorganized, you only work about a half a day, yet they pay you your full $500 day rate. Larger ad agencies (on bigger accounts) will fly you out of state or even out of the country on exotic shoots. The larger agencies will sometimes have their own DP's, who unlike AE's, will have their sh*t together, so stay sharp and always show up an hour early to the gig. Don't be a know-it-all, be a gentleman or lady at all times and you'll go far. These larger agencies often pay larger fees, $750 to $1000 day is not unheard of; not bad since that includes travel time.

2) Plaintiffs law firms. Find the largest plaintiff's law firm in your state. Ask to make an appointment with the senior partner's executive assistant (secretary). Tell her/him what you do. Give her/him your business card. Use the $500/day rate or whatever you decide. Jobs will include but will not be limited to video depositions of witnesses, accident scenes, workplace disasters (toppled cranes, tunnel cave-ins, aircraft, train and truck accidents, heavy equipment failures). Some gig's you'll be welcomed in as a hero. Other gig's you'll be the enemy. On more than one assignment, I had to be the 'secret agent' videographer. This was back in the 1980's when video cameras where gigantic. The lawyers will want still digital photos as well. I made a full time living off one law firm that lasted for four years. They were the biggest PI (personal injury) firm in Oklahoma, and they had me all over the place, as far South as Cancun and as North as Idaho. Extra money can be had if you assist with evidence exhibits (plastic/wood models, miniature traffic intersections, upscaled mechanical devices, etc. Some of this stuff I farmed out to others, marked it up 100% and invoiced the client lawfirm.) These lawfirm assignments will ususally be "one-chance, one-shot" deals, so you can't screw it up. If you do you may never be asked back.

3) Fortune 500 companies, these are the top manufacturing and service industries in the U.S.A. Almost all of them have in-house "corporate communications" departments located in all 50 states. They've got deep pockets, and will pay good money for you and you camera to record sales training demonstrations, product applications, safety, product assembly & maintence videos, etc, etc, etc. With a FCP or AVID, you could provide a "turn key" video production and charge $5,000 to $15,000 for a 20 minute to 45 minute production. For little to no money (other than what you already have invested) a smart and savvy lad or lassie can make a good living doing 'corporate communications' videos.

4) Large Hospitals: Large and even smaller "regional" hospitals often need video work for inhouse training programs, patient care training, sexual harassment role-playing videos and sometimes public information TV programs that are shown via cable in patients rooms or on the local TV stations. This same idea will apply to any industrial manufacturer in your area. If they don't know what they want to say, tell them you'll write them a filmscript which will contain a shot list and desired objectives. A script will give them something to change (they'll have to change something!). With an approved script, you can ask for 30% down to begin shooting. One hospital North of Dallas told me "our controller won't write checks to individuals. Don't you have a company name?" (I didn't) " I'll be back tomorrow", I told them. I then went down to the local county courthouse and visited the clerk. I paid $10 for the filing of a "doing business as" form or "dba form". (They supply the form.) I made up a company name " ______ Video Productions". The clerk checked the name against state records and found no other name like that in Texas, and then gave me the approved validation form, which I immediately took to my local bank. My friendly bank teller set up an account in the company name. So now I could deposit checks made out to "_________ Video Productions" and I was the sole signer for the account. All perfectly legal. The hospital was happy and immediately cut me a check to "________Video Productions", which I took to the bank and cashed that same afternoon.

It is very important that you realize that some clients will declare your earnings to the IRS, so you might want to form a relationship with a good accountant or bookkeeper, to keep things straight. My accountant's never charged more than $500 per year, and he's saved me thousands in tax deductible write offs. I love this guy.

Closing thoughts:
a) On your first meeting dress sharp. That doesn't mean wear a tie, but if you look good in a tie and suit - play it for all it's worth. Lady videographers usually know this rule already. Just don't show up in jeans with holes in the knees. Remember YOU own the business you're representing.

b) On a good account, don't be to fussy about getting paid at first. Large PI firms and corporations are oftened burdened with purchase order numbers, accounting codes, approval meetings and other things that slow down the process of paying new sub-contractors. Let things slide until they get to know you. A PI firm once owed me $2,500. I stopped by a few weeks later unannouced and found the Executive Assistant and gave her a little gift wrapped surpise (a little cermanic bassett hound I found for $4.95 in a gift shop; I knew she had a bassett, because when I 'cased' her office weeks earlier I saw her photo of her and her pets). She squeeled in delight at the ceramic bassett. She asked me if everything was going alright. I calmly and politely told her I'd never been paid. She apologized and said she'd have a check cut by the close of business that day. I got the check and a week later got offered to be the primary photographer for an air crash disaster in Mexico, which turned out paying very, very well. Albeit, it was a somewhat gruesome assignment, it certainly paid the bills.

I'm not saying don't do weddings. Weddings are o.k. I guess. I'm just saying if you're even halfway clever and can write an audio-visual filmscript, or maybe just show up with your camera and a tripod, you could easily have your own imaging company or advertising agency on the side. No body will ever ask if you work out of your house. And instead of making $1,500 on a wedding, you might make $15,000 doing a 30 minute corporate communications video. On one of my first jobs I bid the assignment at $12,000. I thought the guy might faint, but he seemed unimpressed and just asked simply "when can you start?" Like anything in the visual arts, it's an exciting business. And how much you make is determined only by your ambition, talent and "people skills"....

This is my first post to this wonderful site and I want to commend the folks who worked so hard to set it up. It's an absolute godsend, as it's helping me learn the FCP applications and workflow methods. Hope this helps!

[Spartacus]

Good post gary!
And welcome to the wonderfull dvxuser kingdom!

[Capt Quirk]

As for myself, I hate weddings. I hate shooting them even more, too much emotion and craziness for me. However, from a sampling of wedding videos I have seen, the videographers are extremely gifted and talented in their craft. I would rather shoot a medical seminar, or music video for a band that is only 1/4 as good as they think they are... and tell them how they'll go straight to the top. Gag.

Bottom line is take pride in yourself and your craft, whether you are shooting a Hollywood feature, a wedding, a band video, or a porn. Whatever you are doing to hone your craft and pay the bills is worthy of praise. If you can't have pride in what you do, you might as well be chasing cars to sell crack.

[MovieTroll]

Awesome Gary!

I must say that you really seem to know how to cash in on your camera. I hope one day I be just like that. I really found the part about filing your production name at the city clerks office. And just to let you know, I have copy and pasted your post to my computer so I can go over it again later.

Welcome aboard!

[King_Dontae]

Yeah Gary, that was the most insightful post on this thread. I've done 3 weddings, and hated every one of them...and needed to figure out how to make some money with my dvx100 before my wife shoots me. Thnx

[Mike McNeese]

I refuse to do weddings...unless someone gives me enough control, and at least $3000.

I am just not getting to the point (after two years) where I can say that I am 'making it.' Looking back at the work I've done, 95% of it has come from personal or professional contacts...I like it that way. Ensures that I work for people that I can trust, and they know they can trust me. Like any business, this is about who you know. Two years ago, I didn't know anyone...so don't let your lack of contacts stop you...just take initiative make opportunities for yourself to meet people.

[Barry_Green]

garyt903, if that's your first post, you definitely win the "rookie of the week" award. Great solid info, thanks for taking the time to post it and go into so much detail!

[sink]

too bad he put it at the end of a year old thread! doh!

[sink]

maybe start a new thread, it will definitely answer all the "how do I make money with my camera questions!

[Emanuel]

too bad he put it at the end of a year old thread! doh!Why? I hadn't read it and now I did.

dvxuser.com is a great source of information. Barry, I agree.