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dashwood
08-19-2005, 07:34 PM
We picked up our HD100 today. Our dealer, HVS in Hamilton, is apparently closest to the Guelph distribution centre and we were the first in Canada to receive shipment.

Surprises:

There is a large battery and a dual charger.

The cushioning is very comfortable on the shoulder.

The body is heavier than expected.

An SD card is included (it is in one of the pink bubble bags.)

There is a package with 5 core/clamp filters that you need to put on yourself.


Disappointments:

The quick release plate is not standard (an extra $350 CDN purchase.)

The back cap for the lens is not bayonet, it is just a little round cap that fits over the lens element.


I haven't even turned it on yet - still charging the battery. I'll get around to testing the camera beside my PAL XL2 and DVX100A later this week. I'll keep you all posted.

Tim

http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/.Pictures/strip_tease.gif

stephenlnoe
08-19-2005, 07:49 PM
That is the about the most thoughtful slide show I've seen. Thanks for doing that. Looking forward to your input...

J.R. Hudson
08-19-2005, 07:50 PM
WHat a great graphic you provided Tim! Thanks for the update and congrats

Nate Weaver
08-19-2005, 07:53 PM
I wonder if this means the U.S. ships Monday, as I've been told.

(Take that with a grain of salt, I've been told a lot of things about shipping dates on this camera)

Pais
08-19-2005, 07:55 PM
Cool! Would be interesting to see some side-by-sides, but they're definitely going to draw fire from all sides. :)

Could you explain the clamp filters just a little bit? I'm not quite sure what you're referring to ... thanks.

dashwood
08-19-2005, 08:04 PM
The core and clamp filters just filter out video noise in the cables.

dashwood
08-19-2005, 08:06 PM
I have one more disappointment. I wish the XLR connector on the boom mic had a 90 degree bend because it sticks out 3 inches when attached.

Tim

harlan
08-19-2005, 09:50 PM
Thanks. That was waaaay cool for you to put that together for us - especially before you'd even fired the sucker up!! :)

Thanks again.

harlan

Jarred Land
08-19-2005, 10:31 PM
way cool tim.. thanks alot.

dashwood
08-20-2005, 06:10 AM
I wonder if this means the U.S. ships Monday, as I've been told.

(Take that with a grain of salt, I've been told a lot of things about shipping dates on this camera)

Nate,

I assumed the U.S. had already shipped their first units. We are usually behind here in Canada.

We were actually supposed to receive our two units weeks ago, but JVC Canada brought an engineer over from Japan to do an extensive QC check on every camera they are shipping to customers. I'm told there was an extra 3-day delay because they had supplied an English technical manual, but the engineer needed a Japanese one.

The other problem is that demand is so high, and the dealers don't actually know how many cameras they are getting this week until they arrive. Our dealer was supposed to receive 3 units yesterday (2 for us and 1 demo for the store) but they only sent 2. There is another large shipment due to go out next week.

This is of course all second-hand info that relates to Canada only.

Tim

MatthewRyanMCK
08-20-2005, 07:38 PM
so dashwood, how does the HD100 perform? i am very curious to see how the footage looks.

dashwood
08-21-2005, 12:39 AM
so dashwood, how does the HD100 perform? i am very curious to see how the footage looks.

I can't really say how it performs yet with aquisition, but spent about a half-hour today going through the menus and capturing a few seconds in each format. I captured some SD60p with HDVxDV and then used Cinema Tools to "conform" it to 24P, and it was slo-mo! My theory actually worked.
The only problem was that my G4 dropped some frames while importing (I don't have a G5 with FCP5 yet.) I'll be taking the camera down to Brainworks Digital and capturing on their HD setup sometime soon.

What is interesting is that the LCD and EVF seem to present 60i no matter what mode you record in. This actually makes sense considering the 24P frames are derived by flagging from 720/60p. It is a little disturbing not being able to see the "temporal motion filmlook" while you are shooting though.

The production company I'm working with actually bought 2 units. I am testing one, and David Herrington (DP for "Missing") will be testing the other one, shooting some tests during an actual shoot next to the AJ-HDC27 Varicam. I'll get some of that footage from him when he is done and compare compression artifacts and latitude between the two.

I'll keep you posted.

Nate Weaver
08-21-2005, 02:36 AM
What is interesting is that the LCD and EVF seem to present 60i no matter what mode you record in. This actually makes sense considering the 24P frames are derived by flagging from 720/60p. It is a little disturbing not being able to see the "temporal motion filmlook" while you are shooting though.

Really? I didn't notice that when shooting the tests the other week. That's something I'd really notice. Is it possible you were flipping thru modes and not hitting "Execute"? We never came off 24P for our test, but I noticed a lot of other settings had to be "Executed", and it took me a while to realize it. I know we were looking at 24P via the component outputs!

Also, your comment about it making sense because the camera derives the 24P from 60P is not right. All the talk on another board about 720p60 is about the MPEG stream laid to tape, and ONLY the stream. It's not really 60 discrete frames being written to tape, only 24 inside the 60fps "file".

mezelf27
08-21-2005, 05:28 AM
hey, ...and please tell me you have a sound example, CCD-block-wise? no half screen noise and no white pixels, I hope?

mmm
08-21-2005, 06:18 AM
... David Herrington (DP for "Missing") will be testing the other one, shooting some tests during an actual shoot next to the AJ-HDC27 Varicam. I'll get some of that footage from him when he is done and compare compression artifacts and latitude between the two.
That would be very interesting!

I'll keep you posted.
Please do!

dashwood
08-21-2005, 08:53 AM
Really? I didn't notice that when shooting the tests the other week. That's something I'd really notice. Is it possible you were flipping thru modes and not hitting "Execute"? We never came off 24P for our test, but I noticed a lot of other settings had to be "Executed", and it took me a while to realize it. I know we were looking at 24P via the component outputs!

Nope. each time I changed modes, I hit EXECUTE and then the system reboots. It always had a 60i NTSC look on the LCD/EVF and NTSC monitor I plugged it into. I just tried it again, and it does seem to be a little blurrier when in 24 mode, but the real-time monitoring doesn't have the look of 23.98 in a pulldown pattern within 60i.
I also double checked that "smooth motion" was turned off.

The results may be different on an HD monitor in 720P mode. I don't have one around yet to test this theory.

My general observation is that there isn't an obvious change in motion when switching from 60i to 60p to 24p like on a DVX100 or XL2.



Also, your comment about it making sense because the camera derives the 24P from 60P is not right. All the talk on another board about 720p60 is about the MPEG stream laid to tape, and ONLY the stream. It's not really 60 discrete frames being written to tape, only 24 inside the 60fps "file".

Exactly. Same thing worded differently. It lays them down in a 2:3:2:3 pattern, but put flags only on 1 version of each 24P frame. Your NLE recognizes the flags, and will discard or disregard the duplicates. I wonder how they fit those flagged frames withing the GOP though? I guess with their shorter GOP than Sony one of the 24 must always fall on a keyframe. Maybe someone can do the math?

This from page 3 of the manual:

"24p mode shooting function
In HDV format, it records in 24p mode.
It uses a 2:3:2:3 pulldown when recording to tape and converts the images to 60 frames. Component output is converted to 60 frames during playback as well.
24p DV format video uses a 2:3:2:3 pulldown (24p mode).
A 2:3:3:2 pulldown (24p advanced mode) is also supported."

So what does this mean exactly? One of two things is happening.
A: Either the CCD is capturing 24 fps with a shutter of 1/48th, but wrapping it in 60p to lay to tape in HDV, or
B: the CCD is always capturing 60p when in any P mode and deriving 24 out of that (but then how can you get a shutter of 1/48th ???) Hmmm.

Assuming option "A" makes the most sense to us (that's how teleciné/DVX100/XL2 wrap 24 in a pulldown within 60i) then the question is "are the LCD/EVF and live output showing us the image before or after it is wrapped in 60p (or 60i in the case of NTSC). (I didn't test this theory in NTSC DV recording mode. It may behave exactly like a DVX100/XL2 when set for DV record. I'll check next time.)
PS: I have now done the test and when the camera is recording in DV mode, it does act like a DVX or XL2 and show a true representation of 24 with pulldown in 60i. However, when recording in HDV mode, it still looks as smooth as 60i no matter what frame rate you are set to (even after reboot.)

One thing that has always confused me about this camera, is that when I went to the first JVC seminar months ago, I remember the rep mentioning that the CCD captures 60p all the time. Oddly though, there is no 720/60p aquisition option, even though that is the HD output standard from the camera. There is however an SD60P option for 480 and 576, but it is not considered NTSC. (That's how I captured slo-mo at 60fps and conformed back to 24fps.)
I tried to wrap my head around how it worked and I asked a few questions about the camera captures and processes the images, but the rep couldn't really clarify it for me. He wasn't an engineer.

I found this recording/playback format chart on the jvc site.
http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/pro/prohd/faq/gy-hd100_faq.pdf

The bottom line is that I don't really care if live monitoring doesn't show the final 24P temporal frame look. All that matters is composition, lighting and focus to the director. Video assist on film never showed a true representation of the final product either! A small price to pay to for cheap 24P HD.

Tim

dashwood
08-21-2005, 08:54 AM
please tell me you have a sound example, CCD-block-wise? no half screen noise and no white pixels, I hope?

so far so good.


ADDED TWO HOURS LATER:

Upon closer inspection, the NTSC output does seem to be a little brighter on the left side of the screen. It is a perfect split down the middle. This is also visible in the LCD. I suspect this has to do with the NTSC downconverting circuit. There are also many residual frame artifacts and compression artifacts when using the NTSC output.
I also haven't put the core/clamp filters on the cables, so it could be a result of some interference in the analog out created by the camera. Who knows?

The digitized footage is fine.

MatthewRyanMCK
08-21-2005, 07:25 PM
hey thanks for the info dashwood, i'll be waiting to see some real footage. i can't wait. the real wait will be to see the hvx and the hd100 side by side. that one will be interesting.

Barry_Green
08-21-2005, 07:29 PM
Hey Tim, that sounds like the split-screen effect, and likely has nothing to do with the downconversion. Put on the lens cap (or close the iris) and jack the gain up to 18db, and you will probably see a marked difference between the left and right half.

stephenlnoe
08-21-2005, 08:16 PM
Nope. each time I changed modes, I hit EXECUTE and then the system reboots. It always had a 60i NTSC look on the LCD/EVF and NTSC monitor I plugged it into. I just tried it again, and it does seem to be a little blurrier when in 24 mode, but the real-time monitoring doesn't have the look of 23.98 in a pulldown pattern within 60i.
I also double checked that "smooth motion" was turned off.

The results may be different on an HD monitor in 720P mode. I don't have one around yet to test this theory.

My general observation is that there isn't an obvious change in motion when switching from 60i to 60p to 24p like on a DVX100 or XL2.



Exactly. Same thing worded differently. It lays them down in a 2:3:2:3 pattern, but put flags only on 1 version of each 24P frame. Your NLE recognizes the flags, and will discard or disregard the duplicates. I wonder how they fit those flagged frames withing the GOP though? I guess with their shorter GOP than Sony one of the 24 must always fall on a keyframe. Maybe someone can do the math?

This from page 3 of the manual:

"24p mode shooting function
In HDV format, it records in 24p mode.
It uses a 2:3:2:3 pulldown when recording to tape and converts the images to 60 frames. Component output is converted to 60 frames during playback as well.
24p DV format video uses a 2:3:2:3 pulldown (24p mode).
A 2:3:3:2 pulldown (24p advanced mode) is also supported."

So what does this mean exactly? One of two things is happening.
A: Either the CCD is capturing 24 fps with a shutter of 1/48th, but wrapping it in 60p to lay to tape in HDV, or
B: the CCD is always capturing 60p when in any P mode and deriving 24 out of that (but then how can you get a shutter of 1/48th ???) Hmmm.

Assuming option "A" makes the most sense to us (that's how teleciné/DVX100/XL2 wrap 24 in a pulldown within 60i) then the question is "are the LCD/EVF and live output showing us the image before or after it is wrapped in 60p (or 60i in the case of NTSC). (I didn't test this theory in NTSC DV recording mode. It may behave exactly like a DVX100/XL2 when set for DV record. I'll check next time.)
PS: I have now done the test and when the camera is recording in DV mode, it does act like a DVX or XL2 and show a true representation of 24 with pulldown in 60i. However, when recording in HDV mode, it still looks as smooth as 60i no matter what frame rate you are set to (even after reboot.)

One thing that has always confused me about this camera, is that when I went to the first JVC seminar months ago, I remember the rep mentioning that the CCD captures 60p all the time. Oddly though, there is no 720/60p aquisition option, even though that is the HD output standard from the camera. There is however an SD60P option for 480 and 576, but it is not considered NTSC. (That's how I captured slo-mo at 60fps and conformed back to 24fps.)
I tried to wrap my head around how it worked and I asked a few questions about the camera captures and processes the images, but the rep couldn't really clarify it for me. He wasn't an engineer.

I found this recording/playback format chart on the jvc site.
http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/pro/prohd/faq/gy-hd100_faq.pdf

The bottom line is that I don't really care if live monitoring doesn't show the final 24P temporal frame look. All that matters is composition, lighting and focus to the director. Video assist on film never showed a true representation of the final product either! A small price to pay to for cheap 24P HD.

Tim

Hi,

@Tim Dashwood, Here is some input for your reading pleasure about how ProHD works (http://videosystems.com/mag/video_prohd_approach/).
It may not have all the anwers but may shed some light on what you're saying.

dashwood
08-21-2005, 08:43 PM
Hi,

Here is some input for your reading pleasure about how ProHD works (http://videosystems.com/mag/video_prohd_approach/).
It may not have all the anwers but may shed some light on what you're saying.

I can't get the link to work. Can you double check for us. Thanks.

By the way, I just finished getting the foam shaped for the Pelican case 1600.

http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/.Pictures/Pelican-Case-for-HD100.jpg

stephenlnoe
08-21-2005, 08:54 PM
Here is the full address.

http://videosystems.com/mag/video_prohd_approach/

mezelf27
08-22-2005, 05:34 AM
Nice made foam. Did you cut that yourself? And how in hell's name did you accomplish that? - It's not that I'm not handy, but these things always get messed up by me... :-)

So the split-screen-effect is only on the monitor and LCD, not on the recorded images?

Barry_Green
08-22-2005, 10:41 AM
So the split-screen-effect is only on the monitor and LCD, not on the recorded images?
Incorrect -- the split-screen thing is most definitely on the recorded images.

mmm
08-22-2005, 11:09 AM
Incorrect -- the split-screen thing is most definitely on the recorded images.

Does it do this in PAL mode too or just NTSC?? I am a liittle confused. :huh:

Barry_Green
08-22-2005, 11:41 AM
The first I saw of the split-screen mode was from a "PAL" camera. I've also seen the effect on the "NTSC" camera, so it definitely affects all of them.

mmm
08-22-2005, 02:17 PM
The first I saw of the split-screen mode was from a "PAL" camera. I've also seen the effect on the "NTSC" camera, so it definitely affects all of them.

Oh bum!

Cheers Barry...

Rocketeer
08-23-2005, 10:07 PM
Hey Tim

Any further thoughts on the camera? Have you been able to check whether you're getting CA on the lens?

Thought the US release wouldn't be far away if Canada had got theres. Are you an isolated case or has the camera been released throughout Canada?

dashwood
08-24-2005, 07:02 PM
Hey Tim

Any further thoughts on the camera? Have you been able to check whether you're getting CA on the lens?
I haven't had a chance to test the lens at long focal lengths. I also haven't had a chance to confirm if the split-screen effect (which I only witnessed once) transfers into the m2t over firewire, or is just on the analog outs.



Thought the US release wouldn't be far away if Canada had got theres. Are you an isolated case or has the camera been released throughout Canada?

I believe the first limited shipments were sent out to all the Canadian dealers with pre-orders last Friday. I know that this whole first shipment was QC'd by an engineer from Japan, and that was the cause for the initial delay here. I was told that a second shipment is being prepared now. (this is all second hand information from my dealer - I have no inside information)
I assumed the U.S. shipments had gone out last week because there seem to be alot of people posting footage all over the various newsgroups.
Maybe these are insiders with pre-production models, or are actually the European model.


I feel really guilty that I picked mine up on Friday, (it is now Wednesday) and I haven't had a chance to shoot more than 4 minutes of footage. I know there are a bunch of you out there who can't wait to get your hands on it.

Strangways has already volunteered to help me shoot some tests, as well as side by side against XL2 and DVX100A as soon as I have a chance.
If anyone else wants to lend a hand and you live in the GTA (we are specifically shooting tests in Hamilton/Burlington Bay) please let me know.
I may have some time Sunday or Monday, but we'll see.

Tim

J.R. Hudson
08-24-2005, 07:33 PM
Any footage yet?

How long does it take to film something? Come on Tim!

dashwood
08-24-2005, 08:37 PM
Any footage yet?

How long does it take to film something? Come on Tim!

I had it in the back yard for 5 minutes yesterday while my son was playing in his sandbox. I wouldn't consider it "test footage" but I could upload a bit to my server in a couple of hours. I tried various gamma settings, as well as frame rate settings.

Tim

Nate Weaver
08-24-2005, 08:42 PM
iDisk!

dashwood
08-25-2005, 08:25 AM
Any footage yet?

How long does it take to film something? Come on Tim!
The real problem is how long it takes to post and upload something!


I had it in the back yard for 5 minutes yesterday while my son was playing in his sandbox. I wouldn't consider it "test footage" but I could upload a bit to my server in a couple of hours. I tried various gamma settings, as well as frame rate settings.


OK John.

Here it is @ 1280x720 in H.264 (80Mb)
You’ll probably need a G5 and QT7 to play this at 24fps.:
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/.Movies/HD100clips.mov

Here it is @ SD anamorphic 480p24 MPEG2 (128Mb for the slower processor people, or maybe you can burn this to a DVD
Update Sept 10 2005: I have removed the m2v because I need the space to upload some more m2t

Be sure to RIGHT-CLICK (or CTRL-click on MACs) these links and save them to your computer. They are BIG!

I should preface this by saying that my primary excitement about the HD100 is the ability to shoot slo-mo at 50 and 60 fps. I don't care that it is in 720x480 (or 576 @50) because I will mostly be using it for music videos and a direct-to-DVD action film I'm shooting in October.
That is why the majority of what you will see is shot in 480p60. I wanted to make sure my theory would truly work. I've done it many times with the DVX and 30p - slow-mo to 24P, but 60 will be awesome! Now I don't need to rent a Varicam.

Here's my current workflow: I'm using Mac OS X 10.3 Panther, with Quicktime 7, but I do not have the FCP5 upgrade yet.

In the case of the slo-mo clips I shot at 480p60, I captured them with HDVxDV (free trial version) and then used MPEG streamclip to export them to 960x720 60P with Apple's DVCPRO HD 720P codec.
I then opened each clip in Cinema Tools and "conformed" them from 59.94 fps to 23.98. Hence real in-camera "slow motion" shot at 60 frames per second. This is an instant process in Cinema Tools - it just tells the quicktime file that its frame rate is now 23.98.
This was by no means a scientific test, but I do remember I had the Cinema curves and matrix turned on and I set my zebra to 100% and then exposed my highlights using that as a guide.

The 720p24 clip was captured with HDVxDV and converted to DVCPRO HD quicktime codec in the native resolution. After I edited the clips I wanted in FCP4.5, I recompressed into H.264 codec at 1280x720p24. (I created the 480p MPEG2 from the original 480p m2t files.)

Here's the description of each clip:

00:00
A clip of my 9 month old captured in 480p60 (with a 1/100 shutter I think) uprezzed and slowed down to 720p24. I was using "macro" mode. I put this here to show the whip pan slowed to 24.

00:11
Also captured 480p60 and uprezzed/conformed to 24, but I colour corrected this because it was very underexposed when in the shade. I really cranked the mids and added saturation, but you can really see compression artifacts. I'm not sure if this is indicitave of HDV compression in lower levels, or if I introduced it by uprezzing in streamclip? I also stuck it on the end without colour correction so you could see the original.

00:32
Here's a clip of my other son captured in 480p60 uprezzed (with QTpro resizing) and conformed to 720p24. I was telling him to run around, but he didn't understand why. Notice the motion of his hair blowing in the breeze near the end. I was adjusting the iris during this shot until the hotspot on his hair was reading 100IRE according to the zebras. White clip was set to 108%.
Take note of how the MPEG compression "trails" when he swings his arms up and down. Hopefully this is just a result of current HDV capture software not translating 6-frame GOP properly.

01:16
Playing with sand and water, captured in 720p24. The problem here is that the file is captured at 59.94 and I can't seem to remove the advanced pulldown because version 4.5 of FCP is all based on 29.97 interlaced.
However, by dropping the 59.94 clip into a 23.98 timeline, the pulldown seems to be removed automatically (requires a render.)
Can anyone else figure this out, or should I just hold my breath for an FCP5 HD100 update? The HD100 captures 1280x720, but this clip has been downsized into 960x720 DVCPROHD and then output back at 1280. I also think some DVCPROHD artifacts were introduced when it was rendered into the 23.98 timeline. The motion blur looks a little weird to me. The shutter may have defaulted to 1/24 when I put it back in 720p24 mode (stupid default!) I'll have to make a little note on the camera to always remember to set the shutter to 1/48!

Here's the link to the original HDV 720p24 m2t mpeg transport stream of this clip. Make sure to Right-click this clip and then save to your computer. You can then view it in a Mpeg transport stream viewer. It is about 48Mb.
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/.Movies/alex720p24.m2t

01:45
I also shot some stuff in NTSC DV 24PA, and captured with FCP4.5, so I could compare with DVX100 and XL2. I have to say that I am very disappointed in the way the camera processes DV. It seems to leave MPEG ghost artifacts on fast pans. You can see it on the yellow plastic when I whip left or right. I've never seen this with the DV codec. Shown here in native 720x480 stretched to 16x9 within 960x720.

02:25
Original SDp60 uprezzed clip2 without colour correction.


That's it for now. I wanted to wait until I had something better, but oh well.

Tim

edgebsl
08-25-2005, 08:41 AM
Nothing there when you click on it.

Can see your homepage at homepage.mac/timdashwood

but there are no files at that address

edgebsl
08-25-2005, 08:42 AM
whoops ! It's not noon yet!

dashwood
08-25-2005, 08:54 AM
whoops ! It's not noon yet!

It is now 11:54 and they just finished uploading.

dashwood
08-25-2005, 09:58 AM
Nice made foam. Did you cut that yourself? And how in hell's name did you accomplish that? - It's not that I'm not handy, but these things always get messed up by me... :-)


You can buy Pelican cases with 1cm square perforations, and then it is easy to pull out the bits you need to make anything fit.


So the split-screen-effect is only on the monitor and LCD, not on the recorded images?
That's my current observation, but Barry disagrees. I've posted some footage, but it was all shot with the gain off.

Tim

Nate Weaver
08-25-2005, 10:04 AM
TCan anyone else figure this out, or should I just hold my breath for an FCP5 HD100 update? The HD100 captures 1280x720, but this clip has been downsized into 960x720 DVCPROHD and then output back at 1280. I also think some DVCPROHD artifacts were introduced when it was rendered into the 23.98 timeline.

Hang out for an update. I've talked with David Newman of Cineform on another board, and he's explained what's happening in the 24p streams and what it will take for NLEs to work with it...it's not a big job for them to be updated.

Barry_Green
08-25-2005, 11:32 AM
That's my current observation, but Barry disagrees.
I've seen it in recorded footage. Try just capping the lens and recording some 18db gain stuff, and play it back -- you'll see that it definitely affects the recorded footage.

There's another post on DVDoctor that shows the split-screen effect in captured footage as well. So, don't get your hopes up -- the split-screen most definitely affects the recorded image.

Downloading the clips now...

dashwood
08-25-2005, 01:30 PM
I've seen it in recorded footage. Try just capping the lens and recording some 18db gain stuff, and play it back -- you'll see that it definitely affects the recorded footage.

There's another post on DVDoctor that shows the split-screen effect in captured footage as well. So, don't get your hopes up -- the split-screen most definitely affects the recorded image.

Hi Barry,

I did a split-screen test at +18db and I can definitely make out a level difference of the firewire captured footage split left/right. I also found a white pixel!
However, it is not nearly as pronounced as on the NTSC live signal.

I've uploaded the m2t to my server. 38Mb. Download it here:
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/.Movies/split-screen-test+18.m2t

The shot starts with the lens cap on, but you can really see it best when I zoom to the blue wall.

Honestly though, I very seldom shoot with any gain for most of my applications. It comes in handy sometimes when I'm shooting documentaries, but I don't remember ever shooting anything for broadcast at more than +6db (even on my betacam.)
So, this probably won't affect me now for my current projects, and it will be great if they clear it up in a firmware patch.

Tim

Barry_Green
08-25-2005, 02:09 PM
Agreed about that -- gain is the plague, and gain on the HD100 is to be avoided. I wouldn't shoot with gain if there were any way to avoid it.

Now that you've seen that white pixel, you'll probably see it in every frame that you shoot (although it won't necessarily be white!)

The split-screen effect hasn't really bothered me in most of the things I've shot or seen. It's there, but it takes certain circumstances to make it noticeable. Gain is one; if you shoot with high levels of gain, you can count on seeing the split screen. And yes, in your footage it's much easier to see it when you shot against the wall. It corresponds with other reports, where one side is just "redder" than the other.

But as you say, with no gain it shouldn't be much of an issue in most shooting circumstances. And yes, we have been hinted at (at least in DVDoctor forums) that there could be a firmware patch coming that would fix the split-screen; apparently there are different processors for the right and left half of the screen, and I guess they can calibrate them a little better than they have been from the factory. Haven't heard JVC comment directly to that yet, but I do hope that it's true.

stephenlnoe
08-25-2005, 04:50 PM
Hi Barry,

I did a split-screen test at +18db and I can definitely make out a level difference of the firewire captured footage split left/right. I also found a white pixel!
However, it is not nearly as pronounced as on the NTSC live signal.

I've uploaded the m2t to my server. 38Mb. Download it here:
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/.Movies/split-screen-test+18.m2t

The shot starts with the lens cap on, but you can really see it best when I zoom to the blue wall.

Honestly though, I very seldom shoot with any gain for most of my applications. It comes in handy sometimes when I'm shooting documentaries, but I don't remember ever shooting anything for broadcast at more than +6db (even on my betacam.)
So, this probably won't affect me now for my current projects, and it will be great if they clear it up in a firmware patch.

Tim


I downloaded your clip and put it in the CX color corrector. (Click here for graphic) (http://home.comcast.net/~stephenlnoe/split.png) for others to take a look. Definately slanting toward red and you can certainly see the split screen effect. I'm like you and very rarely ever get into gain. I typically will slow the frame rate down to gather more light just to avoid getting into gain at all. Anyway, it is visible. That would be a function of electronics in the cam and nothing else.

mezelf27
08-25-2005, 05:04 PM
let's all hope for a fast firmware update, and - even better - a split-screen-free second shipment....

mezelf27
08-25-2005, 07:32 PM
Is it in that menu that you can find a faulty-pixel-masking?

Rocketeer
08-25-2005, 08:10 PM
Is it in that menu that you can find a faulty-pixel-masking?

No, not as such. From memory there was nothing that stood out. But there are a lot of very technical menu adjustments that can be made.

I'm also use to the Sony cameras where a simple black balance off the wb switch is enough to enable the masking.

And without a service manual to go with the menu structure there is no telling how each adjustment affects the camera.

Tim may want to document those service menu pages to post but it would be a labour of love...

dashwood
08-25-2005, 08:46 PM
I just went into the service menu, and it reboots the system into NTSC DV. I go into the menu and the header says NTSC, and then there is an adjustment for location. Mine is set to U_E
This menu is not navigatable like the normal menu, and the other two option don't seem selectable.

I couldn't exit the menu, so I turned the system off.

I think a few menu items went back to default after that, and I had to reload my settings from the SD card.

mezelf27
08-26-2005, 05:51 AM
man, sounds complicated

dashwood
08-26-2005, 03:02 PM
man, sounds complicated
and scary!

Barry_Green
08-26-2005, 05:06 PM
Yes, but keep in mind that end users aren't really supposed to even know about it. It's a service menu for repair techs to use (so, I guess it should be "scary"!) ;)

stephenlnoe
08-30-2005, 08:45 PM
t. dashwood, were you able to mask out this dead pixel sucessfully? I've included a screenshot of your lenscap on vid.

Click here to see the DOA pixel (http://home.comcast.net/~stephenlnoe/spot.png)

dashwood
08-30-2005, 09:45 PM
t. dashwood, were you able to mask out this dead pixel sucessfully? I've included a screenshot of your lenscap on vid.

Click here to see the DOA pixel (http://home.comcast.net/~stephenlnoe/spot.png)

I'm working on it tomorrow. I had an interesting conversation with my dealer today about the pixel and split screen. I will post the info tomorrow in a new thread (after I test it), but he said that if I turn the camera on for at least two hours, the pixel will mask itself. Ever hear of this?

Also, if the split screen appears in any gain settings other than +18, JVC will swap the camera same day. (I'm in Canada, the policies in the U.S. may differ.)

Tim

harlan
08-30-2005, 11:07 PM
Glad to hear it Tim, keep us posted.

c'ya

harlan

Barry_Green
08-30-2005, 11:09 PM
but he said that if I turn the camera on for at least two hours, the pixel will mask itself. Ever hear of this?
Seems unlikely; the camera I used at WEVA had been on for likely 10 hours straight, and there was a dead pixel in every frame. So I don't know why it would be different, but I'm hoping it is! Please keep us posted...

Mediacre
10-11-2005, 05:53 AM
What's in the box with the SD card in the 4th picture? In the camera I tested, there was just the SD card in that upper part, with the charger, mic and everything else in the bottom part. Did you get the free wide angle? Is that what comes in that part of the box? I wondered why such a big space for only a SD card.

dashwood
10-11-2005, 06:28 AM
Nope. No wide angle.

Mediacre
10-11-2005, 06:31 AM
Do you remeber what's that then. What was with the SD card? The camera I tested, there was just the SD card in there.

Huiy Tang
10-11-2005, 09:12 AM
If your SD card was already inside the camera when you received it, you likely received a unit that was used by someone else. JVC upgrades the firmware and send it to another consumer and tells them they have a brand new replacement camera. Look for other clues as to how used the camera is. Track your serials numbers, to make ensure that they are shipping new units and not-refurbished ones. Look at the drim and fan hours, to see if the camera has been used.

dashwood
10-11-2005, 09:17 AM
Do you remeber what's that then. What was with the SD card? The camera I tested, there was just the SD card in there.

If I remember correctly, the SD card was wrapped in pink bubble wrap and was in the same box with the charger, cables, core filters, etc.

Barry_Green
10-11-2005, 12:35 PM
If I remember correctly, the SD card was wrapped in pink bubble wrap and was in the same box with the charger, cables, core filters, etc.
Mine too.

Danrose2
10-12-2005, 12:23 PM
Mr. Tang - thanks for the advice, but perhaps folks on this forum are professionally experienced to buy $6000 gear from dependable suppliers.