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Rocketeer
07-31-2005, 11:18 PM
Our factory fresh HD101 is here and batteries on charge. We even have a manual to refer to!

Post away and we'll try and answer any questions you may have.

Ramon Boutviseth
07-31-2005, 11:48 PM
any footage? I'd like to see.

stephenlnoe
08-01-2005, 12:03 AM
do you have a place to drop some raw footage?

How good is the focus?

how about a screen grab?

how about a screen grab @ 60 lux (incandescent indoor)

is it comfortable to hold and is it steadied easily?

how about color adjustments, is there a way to make saturation, gamma, offset type adjustments in camera?

Is the mic quiet on the camera or in other words, when you monitor through headphones does the mic pick up the tape motor sound?

will it fit on a standard tripod shoe?

are the f stops secure when changing the iris?

how about the focus assist, is it as good as they claim?

***Did JVC provide a capture program disk with the camera to accomodate the 24PHDV?


That should start it out.

_MR_
08-01-2005, 12:26 AM
Until we get another 6-6 pin firewire cable (had to go out on a hire) we can't check it out on the computer - but here are some entries from the Camera Process menu screen:

Master Black; Detail; V/H Balance; H Frequency; V Frequency; Skin Detect & Level; Black (stretch or compress); White clip; knee & Level; Motion Smooth

Then in Advanced Process

Cinema Mode (on off) "Turns the gamma characteristics and color matrix close to the characteristics of a movie screen"

Color Matrix (off Standard Cinema) & Adjust

Gamma (Off Standard Cinema) and Level

Color Gain - Off (sets the video to black and white); Increase the number (makes colors more dense); decrease the number (makes colors less dense)

White Paint <R> - Adjusts the Red component when in AWB
White Paint <B> - Adjusts the Blue component when in AWB

Skin Color Adjust


Then you have your color matrix adjust screens, skin color adjust screen, etc, etc, etc.

_MR_
08-01-2005, 12:37 AM
do you have a place to drop some raw footage?

No


How good is the focus?

Focus is what you would expect from a professional lens...servo rocker is slow and smooth, not much grunt there probably, but it's nice.


how about a screen grab?

Maybe in a day or two


how about a screen grab @ 60 lux (incandescent indoor)

Maybe a day or two


is it comfortable to hold and is it steadied easily?

Yep - better than the z1 for sure. And even well balanced on the shoulder with the small battery.


Is the mic quiet on the camera or in other words, when you monitor through headphones does the mic pick up the tape motor sound?

Still charging the batteries


will it fit on a standard tripod shoe?

Put in a standard sachtler snap plate, and mounted direct for tripod. Wouldn't recommend it because of the tail over-hang. But it is indeed possible.


are the f stops secure when changing the iris?

?


how about the focus assist, is it as good as they claim?

It's good...it's like coloured peeking in the view finder...turns the view finder from colour to black and white when this function is turned on.


***Did JVC provide a capture program disk with the camera to accomodate the 24PHDV?

no. Waiting to hear from blackmagic design later in the week to see what they're up to.

stephenlnoe
08-01-2005, 08:07 AM
The f stop question again.

What I meant was, when you twist the iris and change f stops does it 'click' into position?

author
08-01-2005, 09:01 AM
Our factory fresh HD101 is here and batteries on charge. We even have a manual to refer to!



WHOOO-EEEEE!!!! Progress!

Now, we do we get 'em here in the States? ;-)

--Ralph

caldwell
08-01-2005, 02:08 PM
questions...
how is it low light? key?

is there a black and white balance... , is it a professional toggle?

overal build quality??? what is metal and what isn't? I really want to know where the plastic is>

the zoom,,, can it vary zoom speed, as in dial the nature of how fast it can respond?

how wide is it in reference to a 35mm camera?
thanks for everything.

Rocketeer
08-01-2005, 02:11 PM
The f stop question again.

What I meant was, when you twist the iris and change f stops does it 'click' into position?

No, the lens is an exact copy/replica of a broadcast lens the iris moves smoothly between 16,11,8,5.6,4,2.8,2,1.4

Zoom markings 5.5, 10, 20, 88

Focus 1, 1.2, 1.5, 2, 3, 5, 10m
3.3 ,4,5,7,10,15,30 feet

Back focus and macro controls.

Front lens diameter is 85mm for matte box mounting, don't have any available at the moment to confirm exact fit with Chrosziel. 82mm for UV.

We also have the Fujinon wide angle adapter and as one of our crew stated 'Is there a wide angle adapter for the wide angle adapter?'

I would be looking to Century to offer something as good as the HD adapter for the Z1, which is supurb.

Servo rocker control is a bit underpowered but to be expected. Lens can be controlled by a 8pin Fujinon Servo which plugs into the servo handgrip.

Major design omission is the lack of a servo rocker incorporated into the top handle. Would of been great.

Rocketeer
08-01-2005, 02:50 PM
questions...
how is it low light? key?

is there a black and white balance... , is it a professional toggle?

overal build quality??? what is metal and what isn't? I really want to know where the plastic is>

the zoom,,, can it vary zoom speed, as in dial the nature of how fast it can respond?

how wide is it in reference to a 35mm camera?
thanks for everything.

This from Fujinon but not official calculations:
reckon 1/3" 16:9 will be close to 7.37mm W x 4.15mm H which means…

5.5mm focal length is 67.39 (similar to 7.2mm on a 2/3" 16:9)
and
3.5mm is 92.57 (similar to 4.6mm on a 2/3" 16:9)…

WCV-82SC Wide Angle adapter 4.5-72mm MOD 0.67m

No speed control on servo

No black balance function
White balance is set by a rubber nipple front left of camera (looking forward), toggle on left side prst, a,b

Note that the record switch is on the left side also. Not right front like typical broadcast cameras. Zebra toggle is where you would normally find the Electronic shutter toggle switch.

Build quality is excellent. This is the best camera design I have seen, of the type.
Plastic: VF, battery suuround, lens bayonet securing ring.

stephenlnoe
08-01-2005, 03:05 PM
Thanks for the info,

@ approx 60 lux with gain @ max what kind of noise is present?

@ approx 60 lux with open iris and no gain in 24P with shutter speed set to 30, are the blacks black without noise? What I'm looking for is lattitude with an open iris. If you bring this image into you NLE and boost luminance do you get noise in the blacks or do they stay at 0 IRE?

athouguia
08-01-2005, 08:43 PM
I know the batteries are new and haven't reached their full performance yet, however how long is the batterie life?

How good is the viewfinder's image and what size is it, is the image larger than on the DVX's viewfinder?

Is it better balanced than a XL2?

Thank you for your patience on answering all our questions...!

SPZ
08-01-2005, 09:35 PM
Can you tell us about smooth motion in 720 25P? Does it look like 50i? (usable for news and "reality look"documentaries?

_MR_
08-01-2005, 09:51 PM
Smooth motion - I personally don't like it, but that's up to you. One warning - if you turn smooth motion on then it's on your footage permanently - think carefully about what you plan to do with it. For example, playing it in reverse is going to be...a little wrong.

_MR_
08-01-2005, 10:31 PM
Battery life of the JVC batteries - Chewed, munched, spat out. She's a hungry we beasty. Anton Bauer battery solution lookin' mighty appealing.

Takes a little while to get used to it being on your shoulder (if novice) as gusts of wind and muscle spasms will create lots-o-movement mainly because it's so light - so novice camera people need not apply.

Everyone that has viewed smooth motion filter prefer it turned off.

Need to have your eye cupped right over the view-finder - light leakage.

Focus assist went a bit crazy when Depth of Field was massive (i.e. nigh on everything in focus).

Pictures look good though - boss was the one using the camera. He went out to a local park, filmed some birds, trees, trams, water. He managed to get a few shots relatively stable and in focus...and exposed.

Still have to suck it into the computer...HDV 25p. You can ask for shots, but we don't have any to give you as yet.

SPZ
08-01-2005, 10:49 PM
Smooth motion compared to interlaced? Looks like interlaced, or a slowed down progressive clip in FCP with frame blending (ie with blurry in betweens)? Thanks for the info and time on answering these questions!

Rocketeer
08-01-2005, 10:58 PM
Smooth motion compared to interlaced? Looks like interlaced, or a slowed down progressive clip in FCP with frame blending (ie with blurry in betweens)? Thanks for the info and time on answering these questions!

Matt is the FCP guy and can expand on what is exactly happening there. As an observer I'd say you hit on the head with: 'A slowed down progressive clip in FCP with frame blending (ie with blurry in betweens)?'

Matt took some test footage into FCP at 30p with smooth motion on and did some stop frame stuff and it looked like a blurry mess. It certainly didn't look like interlace and the eye to brain message was 'this doesn't look right'

I'll be interested to read others opinion on smooth motion.

_MR_
08-02-2005, 12:17 AM
Righto - I've finally plugged the camera in to the computer.

1st - HDV 720p30 - All good for 30p footage. It cannot see 25p footage...at all. It's non-existent. It sees the VTR, I see timecode - no footage.

Not having any luck getting any other 720p25 settings working as yet...did get an interesting effect when I tried the Apple intermediary codec - everything sped up.

I've been trying going in to FCP via Component (when HDV didn't work), but I still can't see anything as yet. Damned if I know (it is getting late in the day).

On a plus side, DV 25p goes in sweet via component.

_MR_
08-02-2005, 01:43 AM
Picture Quality:
Before leaving work this evening, I finally had a chance to watch the footage play back full screen on an HP 23" LCD.
It isn't as "clean" as the Z1 - there is still some noise in the image, though not to the same extent as the pre-production model. Not sure what the next batch will be like, but these have a "grain" to them...so to speak. Possibly not quite as rich as the z1 with colours.

Having said that I don't mind what noise there is (not "black" noise, overall picture "noise"), the colours are not "DV" looking, and the response from the others in the room was positive.

Will try to get one of the camera guys here to write a review - he knows more than we do :)

rajan
08-02-2005, 02:25 AM
thanx for ur help _MR_ i am sure u will be famous if u post Footage, people are starving for the hd100 clips. so who ever post there footage will be download worlwide and will be in there screen and remembered.

rajan
so let us wait for the first video clip we will get soon.

thanx again

SPZ
08-02-2005, 02:27 AM
Matt is the FCP guy and can expand on what is exactly happening there. As an observer I'd say you hit on the head with: 'A slowed down progressive clip in FCP with frame blending (ie with blurry in betweens)?'

Matt took some test footage into FCP at 30p with smooth motion on and did some stop frame stuff and it looked like a blurry mess. It certainly didn't look like interlace and the eye to brain message was 'this doesn't look right'

I'll be interested to read others opinion on smooth motion.

Uhm, I'm sorry about my english- this happens when I type too fast... What I meant was to ask if the smooth motion effect looked like my mentioned scenário- like a slowed down 25 or 24P clip in FCP with frame blending. This is not what I want it to look like! If it looks like this, than it is useless has a news gattering camera- in HD, at least...

caldwell
08-02-2005, 12:00 PM
thanks rocketeer... i appreciate the notes on the build quality...
and if i read your response correctly the wide angle adapter is a .67? or as it was reported earlier a .8
thanks for your labours
it is much appreciated.

Rocketeer
08-02-2005, 02:12 PM
From the WCV manual: The wide converter shorten the focal length of a lens by 0.82 times

Minimum Object Distance is 0.67m

araujofh
08-04-2005, 02:22 AM
Are you going to get a chance to see some grabs and footage from this camera? Have you guys manged to sort the 25p issue?
rocketeer, please gives us some footage.

All the best

Fidel.

Rocketeer
08-04-2005, 04:46 AM
Are you going to get a chance to see some grabs and footage from this camera? Have you guys manged to sort the 25p issue?
rocketeer, please gives us some footage.

All the best

Fidel.

We have compiled a short QT7 h.264 demo file that has been sent to dvinfo.net.
We don't have the ability to host the files on our own website.

For some reason the night-footage turned to custard in the transfer to QT. So we have provided tif screengrabs of the nightshots.

If the dvxuser moderator wants a copy of the file, let me know and the best way of providing the file (50mb) or we can supply a 12mb version with tifs.

The only way we can get footage into FCP is at 30p.

Policar
08-04-2005, 09:53 AM
I can upload high quality jpegs to my comcast account if you want to send some. I can convert from TIFFs. No bandwith for video, though (well, maybe the 12mb version.)commode@gmail.com is my email address.

araujofh
08-04-2005, 11:30 AM
yes, rocketeer, please do that.

Thanks in advance

Fidel.

rajan
08-04-2005, 01:04 PM
-WE NEED THE FILES!!!! ::))))))
POST THEM QUICK PLEASE TTHANX ROcketeer!!!

stephenlnoe
08-04-2005, 01:41 PM
Hi,

I'm still curious about JVC's HDV 24P capture strategy. I'm not aware of anything that captures this format. What are your thoughts about this? We can do 30P as well but I'd love to have some raw footage that has not been encoded. It'd be nice to get a captured (3 second) M2T file.

Thanks hombre..

Rocketeer
08-04-2005, 03:51 PM
I can upload high quality jpegs to my comcast account if you want to send some. I can convert from TIFFs. No bandwith for video, though (well, maybe the 12mb version.)commode@gmail.com is my email address.

I have emailed you 3 tif files taken from the GY-HD101 720/30p. Please post a link for others to access.

Sorry no ther requests as for some reason using outlook to send large files completely crashes my PC to a halt.

Policar
08-04-2005, 04:35 PM
Just got them. I'm in a super rush, but here you go (these are JPEGs but without much compression):

http://home.comcast.net/~kittyluv/JVC/1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~kittyluv/JVC/2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~kittyluv/JVC/3.jpg

theHeadlessPuppy
08-04-2005, 05:06 PM
Great stuff man!

Just as I thought, the last pic looks quite poor. Almost like a Z1. I suppose that's what you get with a 1/3 lens.

The second one is a different story, I wish there were some of people's faces close ups or similar.

Still, good job - we can finally speak about it as opposed to hear about it.

stephenlnoe
08-04-2005, 05:45 PM
Hi,

JPEG is at least another 20:1 compression and more likely closer to 100:1 compression. Still, the blacks look decent. In the second one it's hard to tell what the focal point was. At 30P the image is probably not as good as their smooth motion 24P which is (from reports) supposed to give really decent stills.

The 25P/24P capture is really getting to me. There must be an answer to this from JVC.

Policar
08-04-2005, 06:14 PM
They all look quite good to me. The first appears to be slightly out of focus, but none have too much noise. I can't tell any difference between the TIFFs and the jpegs to be honest, although I probalby could if I looked really hard. I'll upload a TIFF of one of them if anyone wants to compare.

The last one looks a little over-exposed but great to me otherwise. I've heard very mixed things about smooth motion, but I don't get how it's different from 24p with a 1/24th shutter.

_MR_
08-04-2005, 06:34 PM
The images seem to have a bit more banding than the original material - probably through the various stages of recompression into different formats. Using FCP filters to grade the image (which will produce more banding than say a good quality after effects filter) it held up about as well as the Z1 I'd say.

tomapete34
08-04-2005, 08:00 PM
i dont think those jpegs r all that good, really.. on the last 1 theres definitely edge enhacement, very visible, too contracty and i dont get it where r the colors. The 1st is almost B/W, i know its shot into the sun but still.. so far all the pix look very similar the grabs i seen from HD1. I hope im wrong thou

Rocketeer
08-04-2005, 08:49 PM
Hi Guys

I shot the footage the stills have been taken from. Please take this into account when viewing them.

1. I'm not a professional cameraman or enthusiastic amatuer
2. All under/over exposed footage is my fault
3. I am not getting to grips with the VF very well
3. All 'wobble cam' is my fault
4. I am not shooting the general public and putting them on the net without their consent

The color palette of the JVC seems to be somewhat less rich/saturated than the Z1. There is noise there too which is not on the Z1 and a sort of matte effect.

The shots of the bridge and boats was taken on dying batteries. This meant I had to quickly find the shot, focus -camera would die. Power up and hit record before camera dies again.

To make things hard for myself I used a Manfrotto 501 tripod. Never again.

I'm not giving up my day job.

obin
08-04-2005, 08:53 PM
oh well..looks like high res DIGITAL VIDEO IMHO...i would have hoped for much better..

_MR_
08-04-2005, 09:45 PM
oh well..looks like high res DIGITAL VIDEO IMHO...i would have hoped for much better..

Um, it is effectively High Definition DV. Same colour space as DV just a lot more realestate. :)

_MR_
08-04-2005, 10:00 PM
Just comparing the JPG's and the TIF's on our editing system - there isn't much difference - However the JPG's look a lot better on here than they do on the office computers downstairs.

As to edge enhancement and colour; the camera is set to defaults, including detail and saturation. You can take detail into the neg's on the camera if you want to soften it up and remove regular enhancement.

videoteque73
08-05-2005, 12:54 AM
The camera has a lot of image tweaking possibilities in the menus. You then save a scene file. This way you can create a more saturated preset.

This stills arent the best that can be created with the camera, we all agree. Anyway I'm working a lot with digital pictures and video frames always dissapoint me...

Thanks for the poster for giving us food to see... :laugh:

mezelf27
08-06-2005, 10:51 AM
uh-huh, so next we need some files here we can store on the SD-card with our HD100's and test and use the the settings of other owners....

Glenn_Gipson
08-07-2005, 10:56 AM
i dont think those jpegs r all that good, really.. on the last 1 theres definitely edge enhacement, very visible, too contracty and i dont get it where r the colors. The 1st is almost B/W, i know its shot into the sun but still.. so far all the pix look very similar the grabs i seen from HD1. I hope im wrong thou

I agree. The pics looks horrible, to me. They really don't look any different then an HD1. This all looks far from "film like." But still, the camera has to be judged under better lighting/exposure/tweaking conditions.

Shaw
08-07-2005, 12:10 PM
Just went and did some color correction. Increasing saturation REALLY brings out the banding. It looks like a chroma blur might have to be standard practice if you want to add any post effect at all.

araujofh
08-08-2005, 11:46 AM
Just like some, I haven't been that impressed with the grabs. But then again, we sitll haven't seen everything. These are first grabs. We need to wait for professional tests.

nateweaver
08-09-2005, 10:17 AM
I too was bummed when I first brought these clips up, but I just got into the office where I brought them up full screen (on the Dell 2405) to compare to FX-1 clips captured in CF30, and the HD100 clips have more detail, beleive it or not.

I think personally I've been working with the FX-1 stuff enough that I've already gotten used to the extra resolution (no more "Wow" factor anymore), so when I brought up the HD100 .mov by itself, it was underwhelming.

This is also combined with the things I know are hampering the HD100 shots:

1-in at least 2 shots, he's on the long end of the lens shooting through a LOT of atmosphere. Almost looks as smoggy as L.A. to me. That reduces perceived sharpness...I've had that problem before (I live in L.A.)

2-Bad focus in at least one shot, maybe 2.

3-Sharpness setting in one or two shots is over the top.

4-Judging "banding" or "color saturation" off of an h.264 encode is not wise.

I almost cancelled my HD100 order after seeing the clips the other day, but now that I've done some careful comparing, I'm actually stoked again. Can't wait to see some more careful shooting!

mezelf27
08-09-2005, 04:08 PM
Brings back my question. Of course you can't get a sky like that clear, but do I have to be careful when I buy a UV-filter. Are there HD markings on some?

Rocketeer
08-09-2005, 06:20 PM
1-in at least 2 shots, he's on the long end of the lens shooting through a LOT of atmosphere. Almost looks as smoggy as L.A. to me. That reduces perceived sharpness...I've had that problem before (I live in L.A.)

Yes was a bad day, especially the bridge shot, which is also soft. The tif conversion is not doing the actual footage any favours either.



2-Bad focus in at least one shot, maybe 2.
Yep, thats all me!



3-Sharpness setting in one or two shots is over the top.

No, the sharpness or the detail settings are factory preset.



4-Judging "banding" or "color saturation" off of an h.264 encode is not wise.

Absolutely, nor the wmv files, nor your own pc monitor.



I almost cancelled my HD100 order after seeing the clips the other day, but now that I've done some careful comparing, I'm actually stoked again. Can't wait to see some more careful shooting!

Check out the new files on dvinfo.net. Like to hear your feedback.