Getting into the USC Film and Television Production Program.

[JoshuaNitschke]

Title says it all.

Senior year of highschool starts next fall. I need to get my shit together basically.

I know I want my career to have something to do with film; I'd like to be a big director, but I'd be happy being a DP, or even a steadycam operator.

Anyways, I assume the bigger and better my portfolio the better. Should I include still photographs? Scripts that I haven't filmed?

How good do my grades need to be?

[JoshuaNitschke]

Arg, I got confused. >.<

Somebody please move this to Cafe ala DVX :(

[Policar]

I think the admissions rate is around 2%. Way harder than Harvard, but it's less about grades (although they need to be great, too), more about ability to analyze film. Technical ability won't hurt, but it helps much less than ability to tell a story or understand film form. NYU is excellent, too, and a bit easier to get into.

(So I hear from a kid who got in to both and went to USC. Then transferred, oddly enough.)

[mmm]

You currently sound a little uncertain of what you want. I would think they want decisive driven applicants. Read, watch and make film in the time that you have and try to get a firm understanding about what you want and why USC is the place for you. I had a friend who got a place their but went to NYU. He was planning to apply to USC for an MA afterwards. He was very intelligent and driven. I found his films a liitle too "wanna-be" intellectual and not very entertaining though. I think his SAT score was 1400 or so.

I looked around USC when I left school, but ended up going through film school in the UK. They do output industry professionals, but I wasn't entirely convinced by their methods. Like Hollywood, they have plenty of money to throw at problems, which stunts creative potential IMO. My film school was also far from perfect and I doubt any are. What it gave me was access to equipment and crews to make my films... I had to break every rule and piss off most of the staff to actully achieve what I wanted though. I have heard that USC are pushy of the students they like, but others often suffer, not getting to work in their chosen line.

At the end of the day Spielberg applied to USC several times and was rejected...lol.

[PDX_DVX]

Yea, take *THAT* USC! If I'm not mistaken, it's also really expensive. Do they make you pay for all of your film processing and raw stock? Or do they even do a majority of film there?

[JoshuaNitschke]

You currently sound a little uncertain of what you want. I would think they want decisive driven applicants. Read, watch and make film in the time that you have and try to get a firm understanding about what you want and why USC is the place for you. I had a friend who got a place their but went to NYU. He was planning to apply to USC for an MA afterwards. He was very intelligent and driven. I found his films a liitle too "wanna-be" intellectual and not very entertaining though. I think his SAT score was 1400 or so.

Oh, I know what I want. I want to be like Robert Rodriguez. =) Be the director, script writer, and camera operator and working on my own rules with the latest technology.

That's not very realistic, though. I wast trying to keep my post soundin realistic.

I looked around USC when I left school, but ended up going through film school in the UK. They do output industry professionals, but I wasn't entirely convinced by their methods. Like Hollywood, they have plenty of money to throw at problems, which stunts creative potential IMO. My film school was also far from perfect and I doubt any are. What it gave me was access to equipment and crews to make my films... I had to break every rule and piss off most of the staff to actully achieve what I wanted though. I have heard that USC are pushy of the students they like, but others often suffer, not getting to work in their chosen line.

Hmmmm. :-\ That doesn't sound very cool. However, one of the main reasons I want to go to film school is because I think it could help me get work, I want access to equipment to make projects I've been planning and currently working on for years, and I want to meet new people. :)

At the end of the day Spielberg applied to USC several times and was rejected...lol.

Yeah....

Also, Brooks is right down the street from me (I live in Ventura). I've heard they are good, but the person I heard that from graduated from there so I don't know if she's biased or not. Plus she never knows what she's talking about anyway.

[Dyrseve989]

Well you realize rodriguez never went to any fancy film school, you should take a look at his book, it is very interesting. I don't beleive you need to go to the most prestigouse schools for film, it's usually the ones that are less known that are the ones that you learn the most in. NYU, the only reason why this school is considered the top, is because the top directors came out of it back in the day, lucas, spielberg, copola. Other then that NYU's tisch(or however you spell it) is crap.....(sory to any NYU students). as for what seems to be your first choice school, USC, way over rated also. I dont mean to be bad mouthing anybody's schools, but it gets me fustrated that for one, people think the top schools teach you the most and give you the most expereince.....in film, experience and knowledge is what you make it, small schools such as SVA in NYC are the ones you should be looking into for film, they give you the best hands on experiences, and know that if you do go to a post-high school program for film, you cant depend on that to become the next rodriguez, you need to do your own films, get out and work on real sets, work anywhere that you can in the professional doing shit work in order to really learn film.


Just from contacts I know tat the NYU film prgram is crap unless you want to be a writer, they have told me you barley get to hold a camera te first two years. I did a semester at Suny Purchase in NY for film, and that was the same, not til Jr year did you get to acually make films for assignments, I then did a semester at SVA(a school i expected very little from) and wow, te teachers were amazing, i had my hands on almost any equipment i wanted, and all we ever did was make film after film. Im thinking of doing some more courses there.

investigate these schools, go on the tours, and talk to the people that are in the program, you learn alot more from them then you will off the web site or phanthlet.

-Matt-

[natob2]

To get into USC you have to be smart, have good grades and foremost be a good writer. USC doesn't care all that much about movies you have already made, or things you have edited, or a reel really, they want to form you as a filmmaker and use your writing skills as a strong base. Many strong art programs are like this. While at the University of Illinois I had a professor recommend I shouldn't apply to their graphic program because they felt l had already established a sense of design and it would be harder to mold me than other students. USC is the same way I have heard this firsthand from a professor on their admissions board. I know three people who went to USC film for graduate school. One went to Harvard, one MIT and the other Yale. All absurdly smart, all fantastic writers. None had ever even touched an edit system or film camera before entering the graduate program.

And my opinion of USC...
Two years ago I met with a professor, and very successful TV director, at USC who will remain nameless who said "You want to learn how to make films go elsewhere. If you want to learn how to break into the business go to USC."

[JoshuaNitschke]

Wow guys, thanks for all this advice. I was expecting that USC would be totally different (I hadn't started looking into this until a few days ago at the advice of a friend).

@ Dyrseve989: Yeah I'm aware Rodriguez didn't go to film school; I have his book and it's well read. :D

I don't really want to go to film school to learn how to make films, my opinion is that it's best to develop your own style and such and that relying on somebody to teach you how just incourages the creation of cliche and unoriginal content. I mainly want to go because I'll meet people to help me out (that's my biggest problem at the moment) and equipment.

The main reason I was thinking USC was because of the people who have come out of it and because I thought it'd be easier to break into the business coming from USC.

My friends and I are already neck deep in film making (mainly pre production stuff because I lack funds and people at the moment). We've written one script that gets highly favorable responses from everybody that's read it. The only reason we aren't filming it now is because a couple of people bailed on us and I got romantically inolved with the girl who owns the DVX and....well, that didn't work out and we aren't nearly as good friends anymore.

[mmm]

I am really glad that I did film school. I never regretted it, the whole time. However, sometimes it nearly drove me to insanity.

You get told a load of shit about how to make films... that there are golden rules about this and that... they say that their way is the only way etc etc... all a load of crap...

My favourite lecturer was a guy who came in, showed us his films (which were damn good) and then said, "There aren't any rules for directing, oh shit, actually... don't cross the line unless you mean too!" He was pretty cool. Encouraged everyone to develope themselves as a filmmaker.

The best part was meeting other people who felt the same way about making films. All courses have the wasters too, but sometimes a group of us would sit around for hours after a lecture or screening just talking about films. I miss that a lot, and is why I now waffle on on this board!

I would definitely recommend it, especially if you are young. USC may get you into the industry, but only you can make yourself a great filmmaker... LOL... there I go with golden rules...

Anyway, that's just my opinion of it, do what you feel is right! If you don't get in somewhere, move on and keep making films. If your films suck, find a day job, but keep making films. :)

[khmuse]

I have several friends that are graduates of USC's film and television school. I have even hired three for projects that I have produced. I hired one as a DP and two as Directors for two different projects. USC is a very expensive program and add to that the cost of living in LA and you won't believe the total cost.

Of the individuals that I know, several have confided to me that their reason for attending this school is not so much what was taught, but the fact that you end up having a degree from USC film school. The networking opportunities that it opens are a serious consideration and perhaps worth the high price of admission alone. Each of the individuals that I know went to the school with a pretty decent portfolio, but nothing over the top. USC wants to be able to mold the student as they see fit, so coming in as a professional with a lot of credits isn't really an advantage (it might even be a disadvantage).

As for your grades, they really can't be high enough; if you have been taking weighted classes in High School and have a better than 4.0 average you are in the ball park. Keep in mind that USC is always looking for diversity. If you are extremely unique in your demographics, that certainly couldn't hurt either.

Southern California has many film schools, some better than others. Frankly, if you wanted to shot for the stars (no pun intended) try approaching AFI. Their program is the best that I have encountered by a considerable margin. It is very unlikely that they would even consider anyone without a 4 year film school degree in hand, but it never hurts to look at their admission requirements.

Good Luck!

[Policar]

Very true. My friend said his college buddy just got into the USC scriptwriting school despite the fact that he doesn't consider him to be a great writer. How'd he get in? He's a fluid dynamics/physics (or something) major at MIT with incredible grades. They're used to kids from liberal arts schools, so they wanted something different.

Even if your grades aren't great (although you'll want over an A- GPA unscaled at lowest and 1400+ SATs), if you have something truly unique and can market it, you may stand a chance. The one person I know who was accepted was (from what I hear) the best in his class in everything, and wrote an amazing essay on The Godfather. He was still waitlisted at first.

[pookie_old]

The USC Film School has become one of "the" hardest programs to get into.

You're compeating against a very large group of applicants, many of whom already are or have been employed in the industry.

A major challenge.

http://www-cntv.usc.edu/academic_programs/production/academic-production-admissions-undergrad.cfm

[Daniel_Runyon]

I say try whatever you really want to try, sift whatever you can from the results of your actions. And take your successes wherever you really can mine them!

[JoshuaNitschke]

So basically USC is overated and not all I was told it was?

If I had a killer portfolio it is possible I could maybe get into AFI? o_o

[Policar]

Noah Kadner (moderator here) went to USC and loved it from what he told me, and I'm still planning to apply there for grad school. When something has a reputation that good, it's hard for it NOT to be over-rated, if you know what I mean. Even if it's not everything everyone claims it is, it's by no means a bad place and it's an easy way to segue into the industry. If you have the grades and the board scores, apply. The worst that can happen is you don't get in, which would have happened anyway if you didn't apply. That said, I had 1490 SATs and didn't even seriously consider applying--it's just way too competitive.

[pookie_old]

So basically USC is overated and not all I was told it was?

If I had a killer portfolio it is possible I could maybe get into AFI? o_o


Who said it was overrated?

[Rosestar]

I just can not help thinking that the $100,000 that will be spent for four years at USC or NYU should be spent on making a movie, if that is what you want to do. I am not dissing education, but after 4 years at one of these schools, and after $100 grand, you will still need to come up with more $$$ to make your movie. If you've got parents with $100k, have them become producers and make a movie.

[JoshuaNitschke]

Who said it was overrated?

Well nobody said it outright, but I have been getting that vibe (here and elsewhere). Stuff like:

people think the top schools teach you the most and give you the most expereince.....in film, experience and knowledge is what you make it, small schools such as SVA in NYC are the ones you should be looking into for film, they give you the best hands on experiences

Of the individuals that I know, several have confided to me that their reason for attending this school is not so much what was taught, but the fact that you end up having a degree from USC film school.

There were other quotes, but firefox ate my post and I don't want to look for them again.

==================

Anyways, I do come for a poor family, so the task of getting into USC seems kind of daunting.

I'm probably gonna get my general ed out of the way here at Ventura Community College. I hear that it's easier to get into a place like USC if you are transferring; is this true?

Also, the whole thing I keep hearing about how USC likes moldable students concerns me...shouldn't an art school encourage originality?

Part of me wants to go to Brooks because they are local and they are pretty good from what I hear, but part of me wants to try to get into USC for potential contacts.

This college/trade school thing really makes my head hurt.

[pookie_old]

The people who you're quoting are whom exactly?
And they somehow are speaking from experience?


Sounds too much like the ones who couldn't get in are the ones that you're quoting.

The USC FS is about the top school out there.

[Policar]

If you have the grades for USC, you'd be crazy not to apply. Even if you don't, 60 dollars or whatever the application fee is isn't too bad.

Don't let financial issues concern you. If you get into a good school, they'll pay. My family's not that wealthy, but we're getting about 30 grand a year in loans and financial aid, and every school I was accepted to offered a similar amount of money (over 20 grand in pure scholarship, I think.) Go for it. You're in a position where if you get rejected, you won't care too much from the sound of things, and if you're considering applying, you obviously have great grades. Try other places like NYU. Columbia has a great film studies major, too, and they're very highly respected. The school I go to (Weslyean University) has an excellent film studies major and a bunch of alumni in Hollywood, but if you want to make movies instead of analyzing them, stay far, far away. It's pretty easy to get into compared with USC, though, and you don't need a portfolio or anything (average SATs are only around 1410.)

[JoshuaNitschke]

The people who you're quoting are whom exactly?
And they somehow are speaking from experience?

Sounds too much like the ones who couldn't get in are the ones that you're quoting.

The USC FS is about the top school out there.

Those were people who have posted in this thread, that's all. You wanted to know where I got that idea from.

Ok, so if I can get into USC I'll try to go there, but I'll need a lot of scholarships.

Are there any obvious scholarships that I should try to get?

[JoshuaNitschke]

If you have the grades for USC, you'd be crazy not to apply. Even if you don't, 60 dollars or whatever the application fee is isn't too bad.

Don't let financial issues concern you. If you get into a good school, they'll pay. My family's not that wealthy, but we're getting about 30 grand a year in loans and financial aid, and every school I was accepted to offered a similar amount of money (over 20 grand in pure scholarship, I think.) Go for it. You're in a position where if you get rejected, you won't care too much from the sound of things, and if you're considering applying, you obviously have great grades. Try other places like NYU. Columbia has a great film studies major, too, and they're very highly respected. The school I go to (Weslyean University) has an excellent film studies major and a bunch of alumni in Hollywood, but if you want to make movies instead of analyzing them, stay far, far away. It's pretty easy to get into compared with USC, though, and you don't need a portfolio or anything (average SATs are only around 1410.)

I don't want to have a huge loan to pay off after I graduate though...

I don't know the first thing about getting a scholarship (still trying to research it all).

I'd like to stay in California, won't out of state tuition rape me?

Also, what's considered good grades? 3.7-4.0 GPA is about what I have.

Also, did anybody here go to Brooks? If so, what do you have to say about it?

[Policar]

I've never heard of it, it might be good. There are a LOT of decent places, so just apply to a bunch, visit them all, then pick. If you're applying to just one school, you're asking for trouble. Apply to at least five or six. That's a good enough GPA if it's unscaled, although you'll need board scores and hard classes to back it up.

If you can't afford to pay for college, there will be loans one way or the other, although you can probably reduce them beyond what I have with work study programs, etc. Talk with a college advisor or someone at your school. Honestly, they will know a billion times more than us. We haven't seen your HS transcript, your portfolio, anything. And none of us know that much about film schools compared with people whose job it is to know that stuff.

[JoshuaNitschke]

Ok thanks Policar. I've set up an appointment with a counsellor. :)

[jhvid]

My two cents: go somewhere that you're guaranteed to make at least one of your own projects and not just work on other people's stuff. The grad. program I'm in now requires you to complete two projects of your own before you leave, which means you're guaranteed to make two films. Also, the classes are about 60% hands on (meaning actually shooting, lighting, directing, writing scripts, producing, etc.) and 40%theory, which has been a good mix for me.