Somthing I can do in Photoshop, but in AE??? Sure would be nice . . .

[Matt Grunau]

Following this you will see four pictures. They were posted on this board under the "Screenshots" section, and though I looked and looked, I could not find the person who took them. I apologize for not being able to give proper recognition to The Videographer, and if someone knows, please let me know ASAP so I can give him proper credit, or remove them if necessary. I did NOT take these, but I needed them to illustrate something I have a question about in After Effects

The first pic is just the original I found in his thread.

The second is the original I hit with Levels and Curves in PhotoShop and with what I will call the "highlight" layer applied above the original layer (background), set to Color Dodge.

The third pic is only the Highlight layer set on a black background, and the fourth is the Highlight layer set on a white background.

The hot keys to select the Highlighted layer selection from the background layer on a PC on PhotoShop are Alt+Crtl+` (which is the button right to the left of the number 1 and above tab on most standard keyboards).

This is NOT the same as going in PhotoShop to Select-Color Range-Highlights. The two are subtly different and the Alt+Crtl+` method picks up more actual "Highlights" than the other method does, and at the same time keeping them less harsh. Once you have a pic loaded (and if you want and the person who took them does not mind) you should grab the original and try it. Once that layer is selected in PhotoShop, simply press Alt+Crtl+` and you will get a selection that appears. Crtl+c and then Crtl+v will put it on it's own new layer above the first. You will not see a difference in the document at this time. BUT, if you blur the new layer, or do other things to it, you can get really neat results. Blurring the layer and then setting it to Screen of any of the "lightening" blending modes will give you a soft ethereal look. Using Overlay or Soft Light blending modes also can yield cool looking results. There are many, many uses for it, especially in video.

My question then is this (sorry to go through the longwinded write to get to this part): how APART from PhotoShop can you isolate only a designated "highlight" portion of the picture to be used the way the Highlight layer was in PhotoShop, bringing out the high ends, most visible in Pic Two on the strings and frets and on some of the specularity from the fingers themselves? And, how can you do it maintaining such a soft selection? I tried using all the different blending modes with multiple layers having different modes (basically mixing if up to try and get close) I tried Levels to isolate only the highlights, but they became harsh and unusable quickly, and for all the working I did in AE, I could not find a way to isolate the highs the way PhotoShop does. This is a shame, because some really dynamic and useful visuals could be done easily and with considerable control, as every highlight layer could have it own animated properties.

I dread the thought of having a 10-20 second clip which I have to convert into a .psd or .tga sequence and run through PhotoShop, even with the batch converter. If someone could please take the first pic, hit Alt+crtl+` and see the result in PhotoShop and then give me a direction to go in, it would be great.

I could make all my work look like Lothrien if I wanted, and how cool would that be?

Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions, and my apologies for such a long post.

Thanks



Pic one:


http://www.paramm.com/boon.jpg



Pic two:

http://www.paramm.com/boon1.jpg



Pic Three:

http://www.paramm.com/boon2.jpg



Pic Four:

http://www.paramm.com/boon3.jpg

[i_&_t]

you might want to check out Mirage, if you have not.
i very recently started working with it, so i'm not positive it will do EXACTLY what you are
looking for. so far, i adore it myself. -i

www.bauhaussoftware.com

[Shaw]

So you're saying you basically want a feathered highlight selection? I went and tried the command in Photoshop and that's what it looks like to me at least.

[surf]

have you tried Premiere? it has a very good colour correction effect. I think you can make this in that sowfware. (this is just an idea, because I am not good at cc)

[Matt Grunau]

So you're saying you basically want a feathered highlight selection? I went and tried the command in Photoshop and that's what it looks like to me at least.

It's not quite a feather, rather just picking up only highlights. If you look at pic 3 you will see there no actual feathering or bluring going on, and pic 3 is just the Alt+Ctrl+` of pic one and then pasted onto a black background and then saved as a jpg.

So it is not really like a feather, because there is no true blurring. Only a falling off of opacity as you reach the darker sections until you simply go transparant because it's too dark to have been initially chosen.

Try taking any picture you want, Alt+Ctrl+` immediately copy and paste, and then put a new layer between the highlight layer and the background and fill the new layer black. looks cool. Also, do some radial blurs a high gausian blurs and check that out too. don't foget to turn of the black layer, or if they are blended, Screen and Color Dodge are your best friends.


surf: I own Premiere and have not found a way to get that isolaion of only Highlights. But I am not as familiar with is as I should be because I usually use Vegas.

[Spiff_2]

I can get awfully close to matching the layer you're dodging using just a HSL and Curves filter. However, I can't get the dodge to work properly because I don't have good enough reference for the layer below it (the one you did Curves and Levels on).

-Spiff

[Shaw]

Ah, so you want to select the highlights and copy them to another layer for visual effects type stuff. That's a very good question... I know there must be a way to do it. Has to be. I'll open up AE later today and see if I can't figure out a way (as it's something I'd love to play around with two).

I'm pretty sure Premiere doesn't have a way to do this.

[kai]

You could use the luminance channel to act as a trackmatte for the original layer, thus leaving only the highlights on a usable layer for you.

[Matt Grunau]

I can get awfully close to matching the layer you're dodging using just a HSL and Curves filter. However, I can't get the dodge to work properly because I don't have good enough reference for the layer below it (the one you did Curves and Levels on).

-Spiff

I tried curves and levels to try that and the problem was that although I could get close, the entire point was to be able to have only highlights on a seperate layer so I can animated any blur or effect I would like.

Try taking the original into Photoshop Alt+Crtl+` and get your highlight selection and then copy and paste it. then turn off the backgound layer. You will truly ge an idea what I mean and why having that visual info on its own layer which contains natural transparncy could be so important. Half of the importance of what I am looking for is to not only separate only the highlighs, but to also have them be on a layer with transparancy. Otherwise, applying certain blending modes might get a bit hairy, where with true transparancy they would not.

Actually, if somsone can figure out how to grab all the highs and then do the same thing for all the darks, we could probably use the darks as a track matte for the highs, and then maybe we could even blur the matte layer slightly to reduce any harsh lines in the highlight layer which the dark layer would have.

I am a layer freak. If something can be done by using multiple layers instead of just one, I am all for it because everything can be tweaked. A least AE is nondestructive and that probably throws my need for multiple layers out the window, but I do so love dem layers!

[Scottdvx100]

Try saving this new selection as an alpha channel. If you look at it and the repspective levels it's not much different than the original.
Your best bet is to create a blank image and create a gradation from black to white with the grad tool. levels will be somewhat level (with a little peak at each end)
Do your new selection process and save as an alpha. Check the level on this.
Looks like it's changing the gamma slightly or shifting exposure slightly lower.
Not sure if it's still possible but in older versions of Photoshop you could create 256 x 1 pixel image (gradation), manipulate it and then save out as a lookup table to be used in the curves control.
Bottom line is that it seems to be a grayscale version of the image with soem gamma adjustment. Just mimic this by removing saturation and applying a gamma or levels change.

[i_&_t]

mirage gives you unlimited layers each of which has an alpha channel. it has a fairly typical set of filters and chroma/lumina ramp adjusments etc. which can be applied to specific frames on specific layers. all of these filters can be key-framed. you could duplicate a clip of footage to a new layer, then remove all but the highlights using any combination of methods, and you have full control of transparency for each layer (as well as how the trans. is applied) for each individual frame. downside: not exactly cheap.

[Matt Grunau]

Lots of help and great ideas guys. Thanks.


Although, I just found a new twist:

In addition to creating a highlight selection in Photoshop by hitting Alt+Ctl+`, you can also use the numbers 1, 2, and 3 when hlding down Alt+Ctrl. Each brings a different level of the highlights selected, 2 and 3 are similar 1 is much lighter, and ` is lighter than 2 or 3. Man, I would LOVE to know the keyboard shortcts to do this with th dark parts.

[Matt Grunau]

Try saving this new selection as an alpha channel. If you look at it and the repspective levels it's not much different than the original.
Your best bet is to create a blank image and create a gradation from black to white with the grad tool. levels will be somewhat level (with a little peak at each end)
Do your new selection process and save as an alpha. Check the level on this.
Looks like it's changing the gamma slightly or shifting exposure slightly lower.
Not sure if it's still possible but in older versions of Photoshop you could create 256 x 1 pixel image (gradation), manipulate it and then save out as a lookup table to be used in the curves control.
Bottom line is that it seems to be a grayscale version of the image with soem gamma adjustment. Just mimic this by removing saturation and applying a gamma or levels change.


Remember, I am trying to do this FOR video, so saving one alpha would not really work, would it?

I was hoping for the ability for exactly what you see on the highlighted layer if you did the little tutorial I wrote about, and to be honest I don't think AE can do it.

Also, this would have to be a track matte moving with the original, based on the greyscale (luminance) value of what you described above. And in that, we hit the problem of being able to do it frame by frame.

great idea though.

I think I shall have to probably go through and extract all the frames I need manually and apply them as a .psd sequence. Ouch!


EDIT: You kind of through me a curve ball talking about the use of the selection and the gradient tool. I think I know what you mean, but I can not understand how that would get an accurate representation of the selection. I can't figure out the method you are desrcibing correctly.

I just don't see how I can do this and NOT accomplish it in a frame by frame way, other than with that plugin.

[Matt Grunau]

mirage gives you unlimited layers each of which has an alpha channel. it has a fairly typical set of filters and chroma/lumina ramp adjusments etc. which can be applied to specific frames on specific layers. all of these filters can be key-framed. you could duplicate a clip of footage to a new layer, then remove all but the highlights using any combination of methods, and you have full control of transparency for each layer (as well as how the trans. is applied) for each individual frame. downside: not exactly cheap.


If it ain't vcheap, it aint an option.


Thanks though. Sounds like one hell of a plugin.

[Scottdvx100]

It's not frame by frame. This is just breaking down what's happening to the image in Photoshop so you can understand the concept and apply it elsewhere.
When you save a selection it's saving the actual mask. The dotted marching ants you see only shows the difference from dark to light gray. By saving the selection as a channel and then selecting to just view that channel yo ucan truly see what is being matted.

At the end of the day what you're doing with Photoshop can be done in AE or any other compositor. You're using moving footage and the compositing software works on it frame by frame.
Drag the clip to the time line twice to make 2 layers.
Set top layer to screen
Top layer apply a Saturation filter or something to change it to grayscale.
Add the levels filter and adjust the gamma to make the mid-grays and darks even darker.
Blur the image. You're now seeing the haloing of the hilights.

Note that this is fairly common and you don't have to turn the top layer into grayscale depending on your mode and the desired effect.

As you mentioned you could use this top layer as a lumimatte and apply another duplicate of the clip at the bottom. This would you to make a given brightness range affect the choice between 2 colro settings on the clip. If you turned one red and the other green then the final results woudl be green shadow areas and red hilites. Same for saturation levels or other effects.

[i_&_t]

i feel a bit silly. i first came to this thread from the new posts section and somehow managed not to catch that it was under after-effects specifically...so i apologize for jabbering on about a completely separate piece of software. :embarasse i love adobe (actually, photoshop is like a time vacuum for me...). however, if you are interested in image manipulation in post and you're bored sometime, you still might want to scope out mirage.:)

-i

[Matt Grunau]

It's not frame by frame. This is just breaking down what's happening to the image in Photoshop so you can understand the concept and apply it elsewhere.
When you save a selection it's saving the actual mask. The dotted marching ants you see only shows the difference from dark to light gray. By saving the selection as a channel and then selecting to just view that channel yo ucan truly see what is being matted.

At the end of the day what you're doing with Photoshop can be done in AE or any other compositor. You're using moving footage and the compositing software works on it frame by frame.
Drag the clip to the time line twice to make 2 layers.
Set top layer to screen
Top layer apply a Saturation filter or something to change it to grayscale.
Add the levels filter and adjust the gamma to make the mid-grays and darks even darker.
Blur the image. You're now seeing the haloing of the hilights.

Note that this is fairly common and you don't have to turn the top layer into grayscale depending on your mode and the desired effect.

As you mentioned you could use this top layer as a lumimatte and apply another duplicate of the clip at the bottom. This would you to make a given brightness range affect the choice between 2 colro settings on the clip. If you turned one red and the other green then the final results woudl be green shadow areas and red hilites. Same for saturation levels or other effects.


Got it. Now with this method I could NOT use a setting like multiply or even Overlay or soft light, but if I wanted those effects I could simply reverse the method you described to bring out the darkened areas and work with them instead.

In the end though I was looking for a way of not just setting the layer up to be used in screen or Color Dogde, but to actually have the layer remove the dark ends outright, making the darks transparant. that way I could switch between blending modes and not have to worry about the darkening modes.

Good apprach though. Maybe I will film myself making a sill face and then try this technique and upload it or something

THanks again for the good advice.


EDIT: A friend just suggestead using a Luma Key, which I would truly make the darker areas transparant. I may try that too.


Thanks. Oh, and If I can upload a video clip, I will even use the liquify tool and turn my face into my icon's. MWAHA

[Matt Grunau]

Last reply. Found it and better than I had hoped and with more options for future use. Instead of having blending modes dictate what was seen, instead of creating luminance based track mattes, it was a simply Keying solution.

I tried Luma Key, which gave not too good results, they were either to blotchy or too rough with the feather controls, but the Extract Key was the one. Simply set the black level to 255 and black softness to 255, and it replicates the look perfectly, and with the darks truly keyed out and transparant. AND, I can do exactly the opposide with the darks or mids now as well.

The possibilities just got endles my boys.

[Scottdvx100]

The track mattes can be set to luminance or inverse so you can deal with darks or lights just by selecting one or the other.
Lumikey can work but as you've found out you have to tweak with the settigns to get a smooth transition.

[Matt Grunau]

The track mattes can be set to luminance or inverse so you can deal with darks or lights just by selecting one or the other.
Lumikey can work but as you've found out you have to tweak with the settigns to get a smooth transition.


An even better point again goes to you Scott. A simple inverse and I'm there.

Cudos and thanks.

You have been a great help throughout this thread.

[TheMacB]

rapier- any advice on where or how to learn more about working with layers and the different blending options and what exactly they're doing?

[Matt Grunau]

rapier- any advice on where or how to learn more about working with layers and the different blending options and what exactly they're doing?


There are TONS of reasons to become familiarized with blending modes and why they do what they do, and just as many for layer usage.

Here are sone links to Photoshop blending modes and layers, but since they are baiscally the same (After Effects has more blending modes, but these will get you a basic starting point) as After Effects, you will get some good info.

http://www.arraich.com/ref/tool_blend_modes.htm

And Layers:

http://www.sketchpad.net/psdlayer1.htm

Those are both Photoshop sites, but they are essentially the same for After Effects.

Using layers and blending modes properly and understanding them properly is one of the most important aspects or working with both Photoshop and After Effects.

Also, try the Creative Cow website creativecow.com

They have oodles of good material.